Hold My Cutter
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Hold My Cutter
Ken Macha on Baseball Journeys, Managerial Wisdom, and Fundamental Strategies
Join us as Ken Macha, former Major League Baseball player and manager, takes us on an engaging journey through his remarkable career. From his initial days on the field with the Pittsburgh Pirates to his pivotal coaching roles with the Oakland Athletics, Ken shares candid insights into the world of baseball. Learn how a young fan of the Pirates navigated his path through various sports, ultimately choosing baseball, and how his experiences abroad in Japan enriched his perspective on the game.
Ken's transition from player to manager is a fascinating narrative of passion and persistence. As he stepped into the role of manager for the Athletics in 2003, Ken faced challenges head-on, embracing analytics and drawing inspiration from influential figures like Dick Williams and Art Howe. His stories of managing notable talents such as Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder reveal the intricacies of leading a team and the strategic elements that go into building a successful coaching career.
Throughout the episode, Ken shares invaluable advice for aspiring managers, emphasizing the significance of gaining experience in the minor leagues. The discussion also touches on the importance of baseball fundamentals in today's game, especially for teams that cannot rely on hefty payrolls. With anecdotes about his personal journey and memorable playoff moments, listeners are treated to an inspiring account of dedication, focus, and the evolution of a seasoned manager in the world of baseball.
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Well, hello and welcome to another edition of Hold my Cutter here coming your way from Burned by Rocky Patel. Just a couple of blocks down the road from PNC Park and we have a really special edition of Hold my Cutter. Greg Brown, along with Michael McHenry and our guest, has called us on the Rocky Patel white label, the Connecticut Wrap. It is the standard, it is the best, and he has suggested this one for us. He's got one as well. He'll light it up a little bit later on. We're talking about Ken Maka, the former Pirate player several years in the big leagues but long time very successful manager in the big leagues, minor leagues as well. Kenny Maka, the Pittsburgh. He's a Yinzer, but he also Kenny. Your story is remarkable if people look closely at your record as a manager in the big leagues. Let's start first of all with the Oakland A's in 2003. How did you become manager of the Oakland Athletics?
Speaker 2:We're going to have to back up a little.
Speaker 1:Well, no, no, we will. We're going to bounce around. How did I become the manager?
Speaker 2:I went out there as a bench coach for Art Howell back in 1999 and served as his bench coach for four years. And then Art left Oakland and went to the Mets and Billy Bean said what are your thoughts as far as being the manager here? And I said how can anybody turn this job down? At that time In 2003, we had Mulder Hudson Cito pitching, that's an okay rotation.
Speaker 2:We had a nice lineup with Chavez and Tejada. We lost Giambi that year, but Mark Ellis Ramon Hernandez was there. We talked about him. That was a nice lineup. So I said, who wouldn't want to have this job here?
Speaker 1:Well is it something, Ken, that you thought about early on in your career. Of course you went to Pitt. A pit guy, pittsburgh pirates draft you. You go through big leagues, you go through coaching you went to japan, by the way, and and you got into coaching. But but early on did you think that you might want to get involved in coaching and managing?
Speaker 2:uh, well, I'll back up here again. I'll back up to my playing days in Montreal, and Dick Williams was our manager there and he was a stickler for details. He would do all this analyzing where the players hit and often watch pictures and stuff like that. If you walked in to the stadium, his office was right there on the left and he sat there and he charted every ball that was hit off of watch pitchers and all that stuff. He moved all the fielders, he took care of everything.
Speaker 1:Oh, he was into analytics then.
Speaker 2:Well, in his own way.
Speaker 2:In his own way as he watched the game. As he watched the game and I said this is something else. So I thought back then that it would be good to get into coaching and it was a bit of a I'm going to say pipe dream. Become a manager, because the odds of doing that are minuscule, particularly if you're not a big. You weren't a big-name player at that time, you know, pete Rose would get a job as a manager, or Lasorda, or Joe Torrey, lou Piniella, I mean I go down the list.
Speaker 4:That's a crazy way to go about somebody's resume. Because you did it well on the field as a player, you're a good manager. Isn't that weird to think?
Speaker 2:Oh right, well, anyhow, my journey took me from playing there to going to Toronto for one year and then over to Japan for four years. And while I was a player there in Montreal, the management there approached me and said when you're done playing, call us up, we're going to have a spot for you. I said, well, that's great, so, anyhow, I mean you've been in baseball. So, toronto four years in Japan, that's five years, that is an eternity A long time.
Speaker 2:And then when I got back from Japan I called John McKellip, who was the president of the team, and he says we got a spot Joined the analytics. My first year I sat behind home plate. I charted every pitch with a radar gun. I charted where they hit the balls. I was reported to the manager after the game, so it was a pretty good learning experience. And the manager there was Buck Rogers.
Speaker 1:Oh man wow.
Speaker 2:And the next year he asked me if I wanted to be the bullpen coach. So I had four years of major league time and I said that would be great. I'm looking towards my pension, okay. So I stuck around with Buck Rogers for seven more years, five in Montreal, and then I went with him to California Angels.
Speaker 1:Were you on the bus no.
Speaker 2:I was on the bus.
Speaker 1:You were yeah, I guess we're going to bounce around because we've got a lot to get to on this podcast, because Ken.
Speaker 3:Maka has so many stories.
Speaker 1:The bus yeah, I guess we're going to bounce around because we've got a lot to get to on this podcast, because Ken Maka has so many stories.
Speaker 2:The bus? Well, I just yeah. So that's just a product of being 35 years in the game. And you said major league.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but a lot of success though.
Speaker 2:I watched 23 years of major league games Wow. So yeah, I have my gold card a couple times.
Speaker 1:Yes, so yeah, I have my gold card a couple times. Yes, I got the gold card a couple times it's not easy to earn.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I got the gold card a couple times. But anyhow, buck Rogers said hey, you want to become a manager, you got to go down to minor leagues and learn how to do it, and that only makes sense. Okay, that only makes sense. So I went out to California with him and then he was fired out there and I said, well, let me start this journey.
Speaker 2:And one of our coaches was john wathen, former manager of the kansas city, and he knew somebody that was doing the minor league system with the Red Sox, bob Schaefer, and he called him up and he said I recommend this guy. So I started in double-A there, two years in double-A, two years in triple-A, and I think Billy Bean's right-hand guy that eventually became the general manager in Toronto Does that name come to mind? It's not for me right now, but anyhow, he lived in New England, okay, and he'd come to a lot of Pawtucket games and he recommended me to Billy Bean. And so he called me up and said you want to be the bench coach for Art? I said, great. So that's how I got to Oakland with the minor league experience. But if you take a look at my major league managerial record and my minor league managerial record, almost identical, really Almost identical.
Speaker 4:What do you think the cause of that was? Winning?
Speaker 2:percentage. What was that? Probably luck, yeah, probably luck, probably luck. Well, one of the things I learned managing the minor leagues was every year you get a different team. Yeah, so one year you've got good pitching. The next year you've got some hitters. The next year you've got nobody who can hit the ball or the fence, so you've got to learn how to get these guys to score some runs and win some games.
Speaker 4:Is that got to be harder than major leagues? Oh, absolutely yeah, because you're always trying to put the piece of the puzzle together Instead of you kind of have an idea of the pieces that may be missing. You can put them together, Right.
Speaker 2:Not only that, but at any minute they're taking one away.
Speaker 4:They could call you up and say you can send your catcher up here.
Speaker 2:So did you find that?
Speaker 1:guy. It wasn't JP Ricciardi. Yeah, oh, okay, wow, I didn't realize he was in Oakland.
Speaker 2:He worked for Billy Bean and lived in New England Wow, and yeah, he comes to a lot of Pawtucket games and I guess he liked you know the team played hard and the guys got better. I remember my last year in patucket. My pitching staff was so bad it was almost as bad as my pitching staff in milwaukee.
Speaker 3:The year we were last in the league in the era okay, starting pitchers.
Speaker 2:So in spring training you had to have a fundamental year to work on every morning. So we worked on cutoffs and relays every morning because I knew these guys're going to work on every morning. So we worked on cutoffs and relays every morning because I knew these guys were going to be running up against the fence. We were the best cutoff and relay team in the league. Good idea.
Speaker 1:Yeah, good idea.
Speaker 2:And you know what I got? The manager of the year that year in the league. Well, I mean again his managerial record.
Speaker 1:Just phenomenal when you think about it from 2003 to 2006. Just phenomenal when you think about it from 2003 to 2006. In 2003, you were 96-66, first place, won 91 games. The second year, 88 games. The third year 93 games in first place. The fourth year in Oakland, I mean, and then in Milwaukee a couple of years, and you know, hovered around 500 both of those years. Do you think that and I don't want you to disparage analytics, but do you think that you would have been a guy that maybe they decided we wanted to move on to someone more analytically inclined?
Speaker 2:in Oakland. Well, one of the things that I brought to the table, I thought, was I was an engineer at Pitt. I studied engineering the last class that I took before I graduated probability and statistics, okay, wow. So if anybody could look at all those statistics and get anything out of it, do you think there's any manager? Think about that. Is there any?
Speaker 1:manager ever in our lifetime in big league history that has that kind of a background. Joe Girardi was a civil engineer also Wow, how about that? I did not realize that.
Speaker 2:And you know what, when I got to Milwaukee, they didn't believe it. They called the school, they called Pitt. To make sure, make sure, yeah.
Speaker 4:Come on.
Speaker 2:They did Pitt to make sure.
Speaker 3:Make sure yeah, Come on they did.
Speaker 2:How about that? The writers?
Speaker 3:Yeah, the writers did the writers, did the writers.
Speaker 2:Yeah the writers did so yeah.
Speaker 1:So Gateway High School, right Correct, Not only a great baseball player, but a great swimmer.
Speaker 2:Well, I don't know how great I was Wait, wait, wait.
Speaker 1:You swam, I was on a swimming team.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was a swimmer.
Speaker 4:Good for you, that is a tough road.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if you're a swimmer, you start in I'm going to say early October and you swim distance in the morning, so my dad would drive us to school, drop me off. So from 7 to 8 or 6.30 to 7.30, swam distance, you do your school and then at night you did sprints. And it would go all the way to March. It's miserable.
Speaker 4:How many years did you do?
Speaker 1:that.
Speaker 2:I did that three years, while you played.
Speaker 4:While I what? While you played baseball, obviously.
Speaker 2:I played baseball, yeah, that combination.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that combination is kind of great. Did you feel like that always kept your arm healthy? Unhealthy.
Speaker 2:Healthy, healthy.
Speaker 4:Well, I went to gateway people.
Speaker 2:That at that time gateway is kind of a football school, okay. So they had two junior high schools. I went to a catholic school in wilmerding, pennsylvania, and I didn't really that wasn't in the gateway school district. So I played uh football for the Monroeville Midgets when I was in eighth grade. I was the quarterback, the middle linebacker, I punted, I kicked off everything, okay, but I was in. You know, it was a 125-pound weight limit. I could put all the gear on and not be over 125 pounds okay, so this is going to lead to something.
Speaker 2:So, anyhow, I go out there in ninth grade Nobody knows whatever. I'm sitting there like this. They didn't have equipment or uniform or anything. And the coach said well, you can stick around, you know. So I'm out there blocking the sleds, no helmet, no, nothing. And finally somebody quit. So I had equipment. But I looked at it and I said you've got South Junior High School, you've got Monroeville Junior High School. All these kids are coming together, 600 kids in my class. I'm going to go out for swimming. So that's what I did, that's how I became. But, as you said about the grueling stuff, it helped my appetite. So I'd eat eight pieces of toast in the morning, as you said about the grueling stuff it helped my appetite, so I'd eat eight pieces of toast in the morning, my mother would say, yeah, put four more in.
Speaker 2:We had a toaster with four slices. Put four more in. So I had a grueling spurt and you know I was probably gangly and stuff like that.
Speaker 1:But what an athlete, obviously. Well, I wasn't a very good athlete, I'm sorry.
Speaker 4:I'm calling you, the Toastman, the.
Speaker 1:Toastman Kenny Maka the Toastman yeah the Toastman.
Speaker 2:But there was really no interest in me as far as becoming a college athlete, so I walked on at Pitt and then it started to go from there as far as becoming a college athlete. So I walked on at Pitt and yeah, and then it started to go Well, yeah.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, a member of the Pitt Hall of Fame, ken Maka, our guest and an all-star throughout his career an all-star in Japan, in fact. And speaking of all-stars, e Era like Sarah, sarah Katz. That's Era Katz without the S. I like the business school Not sure there's any affiliation, but spelled the same way. She's our MVP in real estate and top-producing realtor at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services, and if you're thinking about buying or selling, you need to call Era Katz. She's been knocking it out of the park for over a decade, handling your home like she would handle her own. You're in good company. She's good people. Do us a favor. Check her website at askericatscom. That's askericats with Berkshire Hathaway Home Services, and I swear to you this is the truth. I've only had like two sips of coffee here. You would never know it by that read. So Eric Cats will do better as we go along here. We will not butcher the next read.
Speaker 4:Maybe you need a couple more sets Brownie.
Speaker 1:Maybe. So we're talking, of course, to the great Ken Maka who, as he said, he's a walk-on at Pitt and then just a phenomenal career. And this is right in my wheelhouse, kenny, because I grew up a Pirate fan. Where did you live? Central Pennsylvania, mechanicsburg, pa Okay, I know where that is, so I would get you know. As a kid. Growing up I'd get all the newspaper clippings, sporting news and stuff and, of course, no cable TV. Back then, where I grew up, we were in farm country and did what I could to. Every once in a while we'd take a trip to Pittsburgh and I would have all the photos of the players up on my wall. I remember Ken Maka.
Speaker 2:No way, no way, you had a picture of Ken Maka.
Speaker 1:I swear to you In fact I may have it in my attic, in some box.
Speaker 2:I'll bring it out and show it to you. It's probably in the attic.
Speaker 1:It's not the basement, absolutely in the attic. Okay, well, I thought man he's going to because you were a catcher, third baseman, outfielder.
Speaker 2:Well, here again. I was at Pitt my sophomore year. First of all, freshmen weren't eligible. Why is that? That's what the rules were, Really. Yeah, a freshman would come in and you were a student.
Speaker 4:So you had to focus on being a student. You're going to focus on why you're there. I played so bad my freshman year. I was pretty much an older guy.
Speaker 2:I mean that particular concept has probably disappeared forever.
Speaker 4:Okay, You've got to focus on your academics for a year. Who knows? Nowadays they have new rules every couple weeks.
Speaker 2:So they have new rules every couple weeks. So that's probably for the bad. But, yeah, freshman uneligible. And I'll throw another little thing in there At the end of my senior year I played American Legion baseball and the Pirates had this program here called the Little Pirates, Okay, and they were probably some of the best players in the area. They asked them to play for them and when the season was over their season was over they played every one of the American Legion teams and it was kind of a scouting system. Okay, they know what all the players were in the area so at the end of the year they'd go play tournament.
Speaker 2:They'd go play up at butler, elwood city, alliance ohio places, like after tournament. So they called me up and said come on, play for the world pirates. So I played in the fall. Uh, two years, my senior year and then my freshman year at Pitt, I played for them and I did pretty good, yeah, okay. And so they had a pretty good idea of I could hit. But where was I going to play in the field? So the backup at Pitt, the coach used the little pirates to get a lot of his players, okay, okay. So we had I'm going to say we had at least four guys who I'd played with at the little pirates that were playing at Pitt. Okay, so there wasn't a spot for me but left field. He knew I could hit. So my sophomore year I played left field and then junior and senior year I played first base. If you can hit it, you're going to play. Never caught, never caught, never caught, never caught. Got drafted. They sent me to Salem, which was Carolina League.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which was high A ball and good luck, catch him. Woo, okay, catch him. So on that team was Dave Parker, ed Ott, mario Mendoza, jim Sadowski pitched, doug Bear, jim Minshaw so you're saying you're okay. John Moreland okay, john Moreland was unbelievable. He came to the big leagues and pitched for a short while but he had tremendous stuff. He had physical problems that ended his career quickly, but that was an end. I mean, I played July and August and got to spring training and I'm in double-A, catching double-A.
Speaker 4:How was that transition Never done it? Did they throw you a glove and say good luck?
Speaker 2:Now I got to double A and Colby was there. He's throwing this stuff here. That's moving like this. You're learning what your thumb feels like right, I'm catching long balls like that, now that I know how much that hurts. When I work with young guys, they tell them get your elbow in there like this it's easier to rotate it this way than to be like this. It's going to go like that, okay, so consequently, there's a lot of arthritis in this okay, I have.
Speaker 4:No, I have no feeling in my thumb yeah, okay, so it's actually my right thumb because of foul tips.
Speaker 2:Okay. So now, that year I played in a small town in Quebec, sherbrooke, quebec. What town, sherbrooke? Wow, it's 90 miles east. Is it Pirate Affiliate? It was yeah, wow, 90 miles east of Montreal. Holy cow, yeah, wow. So out in center field, you can call up Teak, he'll verify this. There was a circus, there was a Ferris wheel out there. Really, I'm trying to catch these balls.
Speaker 1:With a Ferris wheel With a Ferris wheel, nice backdrop, all right.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to fast, come on.
Speaker 1:That's hilarious.
Speaker 4:I'm going to pass.
Speaker 2:There was a real circus in the circus. Yeah, I mean you can. Yeah, there was a circus while I was catching. But you can, this is verifiable. Okay, I started managing in the AA then. Okay, so the Eastern League had the Eastern League records. So one of the writers said you still have a record in the Eastern League, I do.
Speaker 1:For Pass balls? No, oh yeah. Do you think you still do? I still do, it will never be broken. That will never be broken, that's unbelievable Because of the Ferris wheel and it was my first. You remember how many oh.
Speaker 2:I don't know, it was a bunch of them. I don't know how many, but you can look that up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So, anyhow, the next year I go to Instructional League and they're trying to help me out, and the next year I go back to double A and we're in another small town in Quebec playing. So when that year was over, I was the MVP playing. So when that year was over, I was the MVP. I won the batting crown. 100 RBIs got called to the big leagues Whoops, three for five as a pinch hitter in the pennant race. Wow, go to spring training next year. And they said you're not a catcher anymore, you're going to play first base.
Speaker 4:Well, you can hit like that? I would hope not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but think about it. Yeah, they had Al Ball over to play first base, they had Willie Starr to play first base, they had Bob Robertson to play first base. Good luck, yeah, what's my avenue? To get to the big leagues and become an everyday player. And the year after I was drafted they drafted Steve Nicosia, number one. So they were kind of ushering him to the big leagues and ushering me out. So I just think, after catching him on and spending two years, I really liked it. I liked the calling, the game, game within the game and all that other stuff Like the action and they kind of took that away.
Speaker 2:Well, how?
Speaker 1:about this. I'm going to blow you away with this. Do you know who his first manager was in the minor leagues? A guy by the name of Tim Murtaugh no, Tim Murtaugh, who was a guest on our podcast. No, Tim Murtaugh, who was a guest on our podcast. Tim Murtaugh, who spent some time in the Oval Office for a while as a communications guy in Washington.
Speaker 2:DC, that's his son.
Speaker 1:He's the grandson of Danny Murtaugh, but Tim Murtaugh right was.
Speaker 3:Danny's son.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So he played for Danny for a couple years, not just the first year First year Salem, Next year in Cherbrook, Next year in Trenton or in Pepper Mines was the name of the other town, and then he 76, he wound up in Charleston. So yeah, four years, Kind of four years.
Speaker 1:And another twist. How about this? So here's Kenny Maka telling the story about how he caught Lo and behold, he makes his Major League debut, September 14, 1974, at Jerry Park in Montreal Park.
Speaker 2:Jari, that's your French right.
Speaker 1:It was a bit of a struggle for the Buccos that day.
Speaker 2:Oh, got pondered yeah 17-2 was the final. The Expos took it to the Pirates. Well, that's why I got in the game. I wasn't going to influence the outcome of that game.
Speaker 1:He's a pinch hitter for Manny Sanguian. Do you know who the pitcher was? You kept the hit off of. I don't remember. Chuck Taylor, okay, and he goes in to catch. Right there he is. It's his big league debut.
Speaker 4:He's catching.
Speaker 1:That's amazing, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 4:Any pass balls.
Speaker 1:Not that day. No, not that day hey.
Speaker 2:Not that day. I don't know if I had enough pass ball in a major league.
Speaker 3:I love it.
Speaker 2:I got in some other games.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you did. Yeah, yeah, I got in some. Just being able to play everywhere gives you an opportunity. That does. Yeah, that does. Unless you can hit, but you can't. Well, you know what the other?
Speaker 2:thing is looking back at the whole playing stuff. When you have under 400 at-bats over four years in the big leagues, it's hard to do anything 100% Sitting on your butt.
Speaker 4:It is I have empathy.
Speaker 2:These guys are able to come up and not play One. I have empathy. These guys are able to come up and not play. And one year in Montreal, I had 35 at-bats. Okay, which is ridiculous I hit 270. I know, I hit 270 and only have 35 at-bats.
Speaker 1:It's so funny what sticks with you. You think I'm kidding you, but I was a hardcore fan and I always felt like why don't they give Maka more of a chance? It ends up you get drafted in the Rule 5 draft, right?
Speaker 2:Rule 5 draft right.
Speaker 1:And when that happened, what was your feeling?
Speaker 2:Because here's a Pittsburgh guy, you're playing for your hometown team and now I was pretty much happy to get out of Pittsburgh, Okay. Okay, because you needed an opportunity. Yeah, but that's true. It's a change of scene. But here's what happened. You go to montreal. They got larry parish at third, chris fire shortstop, dave cash at second, tony perez at first, gary carter catching where am I going? Ellis valentine, andre dawson and warren camardi in the outfield yeah they were okay. That's why I only got 35 at that.
Speaker 2:The other thing. I mean we talked a little bit about the manager there, dick Williams. He played those guys until the tires come off. Okay, there wasn't any of this. Scheduled day off, no, scheduled day off, no, none of that. What?
Speaker 4:do they call that?
Speaker 1:now, michael, what's the word for that?
Speaker 4:I can't hear you, sorry about that.
Speaker 1:It's called tired Anyhow. So yeah, so you go from Pittsburgh with all those guys to Montreal with all those guys, hall of Famers on that team. So now.
Speaker 2:They just had an article in the paper the other day or maybe the Sunday, I don't know about the 79 World Series team and they talked about the pitching and how that did against Baltimore and everything. So you know I'm reading that. But all those guys Bly, levin and Bibby, and Keeson and Candelaria, they're all my teammates, they're my teammates. So I missed by one year, you one year, getting to the World Series and then we lost on the last day of the season to the Pirates in 79. Come down the last day we're playing the Phillies and instead of the Phillies, just like cashing it in. You know who pitched, steve Carl. Oh my gosh, two-nothing shutout. We lost, pirates won. It was over.
Speaker 1:So how about that? He goes from the Pirates finishing up the 78 season, the Pirates win the World Series in 79. He goes to the Expos. The Pirates and the Expos were in the same division and the Pirates beat out the Expos the last game of the season of 1979.
Speaker 2:Well, it gets even worse, or better, depending on your perspective, it gets even worse because the next year is 80. Who won the World Series that year? Phillies, phillies. We were tied with the Phillies. They came into Montreal for a three-game series. You guys were cursed and they won the first two games. Mike Schmidt hit a home run in the tenth inning to win that second day. Ken, I'm just thinking about this?
Speaker 1:I'm thinking about this. It gets even worse from your perspective. You know why? 1981, the strike season Guess who wins a half a year.
Speaker 2:Well, Montreal did.
Speaker 1:But now you're in.
Speaker 2:Toronto yeah, I'm in Toronto. But as I look back at this and the years I played in the minor leagues, the years I was in the big leagues and then I went to Japan, yeah, I was on a winning team every year, all the time. Oh, that's amazing, except for.
Speaker 1:Toronto.
Speaker 3:Except for Toronto.
Speaker 1:In Japan you were in winning teams.
Speaker 2:Went over there. You won a World Series that here didn't you? We went to the World Series the Japanese World Series the year before they'd finished last place. I was the only addition oh my gosh and won On the last day of the season. No way.
Speaker 3:That's amazing On the last day of the season. That's how baseball's romantic All right, so this is kind of what drives me nuts a little bit.
Speaker 2:You know you're playing a game and it's April and blah, blah, blah. This happens and that happens. You get picked off and you lose a one-run game and it's like, don't worry we'll get them tomorrow. Go take a shower, shower that off. No, no way. Okay, these things come down to the last day of the season. It's unbelievable how it does after 162 games. Every game is important, so you better get your game face on, have your intensity up.
Speaker 2:Otherwise it comes down to the last game. Then you go home and say ah, I remember that game, you know I was this and that, yeah.
Speaker 4:April 3rd. We could have won that game Right.
Speaker 2:What were you thinking? Absolutely, then you're not in a playoff game, right? Absolutely. Here's another crazy one I'll give you. When the Pirates and you might have been part of this, were you here when Burnett pitched? Yep, and you were the wild card guy.
Speaker 4:I was with the wild card team.
Speaker 2:yep, you were with the wild card team. They're complaining they're the wild card team. The one year in Oakland we won 102 games and lost by 14 games. Seattle won 116. Oh, no-transcript.
Speaker 1:I don't want to hear anybody complain.
Speaker 2:We won 93 games and everybody's complaining.
Speaker 4:No, we won 102, same division. That's hard to do.
Speaker 2:Seattle won 116 games. Who are you playing?
Speaker 4:the Boys and Girls Club. No, I'm just kidding.
Speaker 2:And then in 2002, it was us and the Angels that went kind of down to the end of the year, and that was the year that won 20 games in a row. But we're winning 20 games in a row and the Angels are going 16-4.
Speaker 1:Incredible. And we're not you know, that's unbelievable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're not jumping out in front of them.
Speaker 1:So, ken, so those are your playing days. We're not jumping out in front of them. So, ken, so those are your playing days. By the way, in 78, that Pirate team you were on at the end of that year, they had an incredible string of like 23 straight home wins at Three River Stadium. I mean they were way you guys.
Speaker 2:I was here half the season. Yeah, half the season.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the Pirates were way back in the division and they mentioned. Well, it came down To the last weekend Against the Phillies, against the Phillies.
Speaker 2:Okay, Stupid Phillies and the night before I think it was a Friday night. So it was a Friday night, twilight doubleheader and we won both games, yes, and I'm going to tell you what Bruce Keeson hit a home run off of Carlton Yep. Both games, yes, on why. And I'm going to tell you what bruce keeson hit a home run off of carlton yep, bruce keeson was up there doing this.
Speaker 2:Yep, trying to get hit by pitch, yep, okay, and he takes carlton deep and I think we won two to one crazy crowd that night, on a friday night, through river stadium pittsburgh.
Speaker 1:The pirates have to win all four games against their division rival phillies. They have to win all four to force a tie when and then they would have a one-game playoff.
Speaker 3:Okay, so it's a.
Speaker 1:Friday night, they win.
Speaker 3:Both games.
Speaker 1:You know how both games walked off. Both were walk-offs.
Speaker 2:Okay. So now we get there at the ballpark the next day, first inning. Stargell hits a grand slam.
Speaker 1:I said this is happening. That was on the Sunday, no Saturday Saturday, it was a Saturday I said, this is happening and the guy that wound up had the decisive hit was Hebner Hebner. Which he was playing for the Phillies at that time he hit a ball down the right field line.
Speaker 2:He was playing for the Phillies then. Yeah, he was playing for the Phillies then.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the walk-off win was a balk by Warren Brewster. That's how they won one game. And then Ed Ott hit a ball that bounced off the artificial turf for a double but over the head of Gary Maddox threw the ball to third because Ott went into third base, head burst, ball gets away and he scores on the walk-off that crazy 29 double header. But that leads me to the question about when you managed. Did you take anything from? You mentioned Dick Williams as a manager in Oakland and even the minor leagues. Did you take anything from? You mentioned Dick Williams as a manager in Oakland and even the minor leagues. Did you take any of that with Oakland Milwaukee, any of the Dick Williams stuff?
Speaker 2:Well, he stressed the fundamentals so much, and so you did also. So, yeah, I just hey, he's in the Hall of Fame. Everywhere he went, he won Everywhere he went, he won Everywhere he went. And after about three years everybody hated him and he went to the next stop. And the reason they hated him is when you screwed up, he let you know. He absolutely let you know. I mean, he might let you know right in your face, but he was trying to teach you the game.
Speaker 3:He was trying to teach you the game.
Speaker 4:Let me ask you this Today's game. I feel like there's a big gap in fundamentals. Are you seeing the same thing? I mean, we talked about base running off air but like base running, you know, anticipating maybe where you're going to throw the ball different things, even reading the swing in the middle of the game, I don't think guys move, as they're watching what's happening right in front of them well, they'd be put in the right position.
Speaker 2:They pull out their card. Yeah, yeah, true.
Speaker 4:Say this is where I'm playing yeah, because the game doesn't change on a given second you could be up.
Speaker 2:I know, uh, personally, when I was, when I played in japan, I was able to hit the ball to all fields okay, and sometimes I'd go up there and this guy's got this sinker boring in on me and you might have a card saying you've got to play him in left center. But I'm going to try to stay inside the ball and I'm going to hit it at the right center, okay, or in the hole between first and second. So I'm going to use the bat differently. So the game today, the fundamentals, are going to win and lose. You games a bunch of them Okay.
Speaker 2:And when you're a marginal, for me, when you're a marginal team, okay. So when you've got a payroll, like the Dodgers do, and you've got the Mookie Betts and Otani and Freeman and all these guys or the Yankees and they've got bombers, they erase all the mistakes that happen or the fundamentals that don't happen. They can do that.
Speaker 1:Those teams that don't have that star power can't afford to miss the fundamentals.
Speaker 2:You've got to play good fundamentals.
Speaker 1:I think, yeah, I agree. So when Oakland.
Speaker 2:We had $68 or $70 billion payroll and, yeah, I tried to tell these guys. You know, I had Mark Ellis who was a second baseman and he went on to play for the Dodgers for a while. This guy was a baseball player. You want baseball players out there. So I had Tejada playing shortstop who was an MVP, but his head was somewhere else during the game, either hitting or who knows where it was, but Ellis kind of run the whole thing.
Speaker 2:you know, and I could give Ellis, this guy may hit and run, change the defense on the steel or whatever, and Ellis was right on top of it. So you like to have players that know the game and are baseball players and they go out there and take care of the fundamentals for the other guys.
Speaker 1:yeah, we are with ken maca. Uh, on hold my cutter, this edition. And uh, thanks to eric cats. Again, her battle cry exceptional service, bulldog at negotiating, relentless in your pursuit of happiness. If you're buying or selling real estate, you need to call eric cats. She is strategic, smart and aggressive in her approach. She's no joke when it comes to that bulldog claim. She goes after it. She's in it to win it for you. Check her out online.
Speaker 1:Her reviews era. That's like Sarah without the S Katz. And home inventory is scarce. Interest rates are high, multiple offers it's enough to make your head spin. Now more than ever, you need a knowledgeable real estate agent. You need a closer. You don't want to win the game, but you want to finish it with the least amount of stress on you and your family. Call Eric Katz, realtor at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services at 814-758-8623. That's 814-758-8623. Thanks to the great Eric Katz, with the great Ken Maka. Talking about time with the A's, you were bench coach for Art Howe. How close were you with Art? Your teammates with the Pirates? Is that when you became close? Okay?
Speaker 2:I'll give you a little some more weird stuff.
Speaker 1:Yes, we like weird stuff.
Speaker 3:We love it.
Speaker 2:So back. I don't know if I was, I think I was a junior. Yeah, I don't know if I was, I think I was a junior. Yeah, I was a junior in college and the Pirates called and said we want you to come down for a workout, the stadium. So I okay. So there were three people there. It was our shortstop at Pitt Terry Stokes and myself and Art Howell Gosh. They signed him out of that workout, really.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, yeah, they signed him out of that workout Really. Oh wow, yeah, they signed him out of that workout.
Speaker 4:What did a workout look like? What did it?
Speaker 2:work like Well, they brand you, you did BP and you threw and stuff like that. You did all that stuff. But actually Art played for Sandlot team here in Pittsburgh. He played for the Northside Mets and I played for thelot team here in Pittsburgh. He played for the Northside Mets and I played for the Monroeville Maulers. So we played against each other and I didn't know of him, but he was a few more years older, a lot older than I am.
Speaker 1:Way older.
Speaker 3:Art's watching this right now. He is ancient, but we will have Art on another podcast.
Speaker 1:He said I need some youth on my staff, so he hired me. In Oakland yeah.
Speaker 2:I need a little youth there so somebody can relate to these players, Okay, so anyhow, that's how far back we kind of went. He signed out of that and they sent him to Salem right off the bat.
Speaker 1:You and he then were manager and coach when the A's had that incredible winning streak right 20 games, 20-game winning streak. Wow For a 20-game winning streak, I think in 2002, I believe that's a lot of cold. Budweiser yeah.
Speaker 4:That's a lot of winning.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, a lot of people found out about that winning streak thanks to the movie and the book Moneyball of people found out about that winning streak thanks to the, the movie and the book money ball. Right, how do you think art? How was portrayed, you know what? Philip seymour hoffman in that movie?
Speaker 2:I have not seen the movie. People. People are shocked that I've never seen the movie. I did read the book and, uh yeah, I thought they didn't do enough justice, because the winning streak or the winning in Oakland wasn't just the cyber metrics or the analytics.
Speaker 2:True, they went out and got these players and we had pretty good players. But the coaching staff in Oakland was Mike Quadi at first base. He became the manager of the Cubs. Ron Washington at third base. He's the manager of Texas and they did go to the World Series one year and now he's with the Angels and myself. And then later on Bob Guerin joined, joined the staff, so he was part of the development. He's the bench coach for the daughters now and he became.
Speaker 2:So you have four guys who became major league managers. So you get the players they have to be developed and stuff. And we brought young guys up, okay. So my first year there uh, waited till june and brought tim hudson. Okay, it's probably on a little bit of the skeins schedule, like okay, it was like in the middle of the year. So he became uh, like the middle of the thing.
Speaker 2:And then the next year it was zito and the next year it was molder and that kind of formed that pitching staff where you had, uh, three really good guys, but then the rest of the staff got, um, filled out a little bit by the analytics. So one of the guys was corey lytle. But corey lytle when I was managing with the Red Sox in the minor leagues. He pitched in Bingham with the Mets double A. So he was a relatively good pitcher. But if you looked at all his statistics he didn't give up many home runs and he didn't walk many guys and he got ground balls.
Speaker 2:So at that timey had the computer program, so he's put them in there and in these names popped out gil heredia was another guy pitched for us and he did the same thing not many home runs, got ground balls, didn't walk many people. So that's a formula for you know, not giving up a lot of runs. So so that kind of filled that out. But my last year in Oakland Zito was still there we had Joe Blanton. I'll be darned Joe Blanton and Joe Blanton had a hard sinker. Oh yeah, you know he got a lot of ground balls. I got a tremendous story about Joe Blanton, but love the guy. Dan Heron pitched for us and we had Esteban Lavraza.
Speaker 1:Wow, I'd forgotten that.
Speaker 2:So our three guys were Heron Zito and Esteban Lavraza and we played the Tw twins first round of the playoffs and they had Johan, johan Santana, they had the guy that pitched here, the lefty. Now you're thinking come on and the third guy was kind of like Mr Twin. He was a right-hander, just a small guy, had good control. I can't remember his name. So anyhow, we swept them three games, so yeah, and we got into the championship series against the Tigers, and Cleveland had a stacked team and they beat us four straight.
Speaker 1:Cleveland did Leland oh.
Speaker 3:Leland, oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, of course the Tigers and Dombrowski.
Speaker 1:You mentioned that. Oh my gosh, yeah, dombrowski.
Speaker 2:He was the GM there, yep. So they threw, they had some good pitching and they had the first baseman, the big first baseman.
Speaker 1:Fielder.
Speaker 2:Prince, prince Fielder. No, the Tigers, the right-handed hitter. He's a right-handed hitter For Detroit. Yeah, still there. I think this is last year. Oh, cabrera, cabrera.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.
Speaker 2:And he had the number one pitcher who's been all over the place.
Speaker 1:Verlander Verlander. Yeah, we're bouncing around. How about? Was Brad Radke the guy? No?
Speaker 2:Brad Radke. Yeah, that's it. So you got it. I don't have a cell phone here.
Speaker 1:I know, I understand. That's 25 years ago. I believe me remembered.
Speaker 2:Okay, you're like bing, bing, bing, bing. It's not well I'm. I'll say this that when you manage and you're watching the game, you remember yeah, no doubt, and I mean you were hitter so I got up there to hit. Uh, I remember going to japan they had you'd have a meeting all the time and I'd say, oh, this guy's pitching and this is how the guy pitched you before. I already know that you don't have to give that exactly, okay, I knew exactly how they were going to pitch me and stuff.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, a lot of that stuff I remember. The other good thing was and here again this was an analytics guy my first year managing Oakland we got Keith Folk. Oh yeah, now Keith Folk was a closer with the White Sox and then he got knocked around and they replaced him Okay. So we got him for basically nothing. So Jerry Manuel was managing the White Sox and we played him in spring training and I said to Jerry, what about this Folk guy? He said, well, you got this, and that he was a change-up guy. He had a really good change-up. So he said he pitched in Yankee Stadium and they blasted him and he kind of lost it. Okay, so later that year we go to Yankee Stadium. We got one run lead Home run tied. So I went out to the mom and said, coltie, get these guys up, we're going to come back and win this game. He got them up and we rallied and beat them Wow, at Yankee Stadium, and he wound up having 43 saves from me that year.
Speaker 4:That's amazing. The power of believing in someone is so strong.
Speaker 2:Get these guys out, we'll come back and win this game. 43 saves. Now see I like a closer that you're not hoping he's going to get people out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you know he's getting people out. This is a lead pipe, okay. It's kind of like Mario and.
Speaker 2:Rivera Mariano.
Speaker 4:Rivera, you know he walks out there. He's looking to hurt you. Yeah, this game's over.
Speaker 2:This is not hoping. I hope he gets this guy out. No, you don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:That's what I was going to say when you went out there and said, get these guys out, we're going to win this ballgame. You're saying that to get him confidence, but you really did believe it.
Speaker 2:Get these guys out out now Folky, yeah, but I knew that he had gone through that experience, right, right, and I wanted that to get erased out of his mind. You know 43 saves Now. My bench coach head here was Terry Francona, let's go.
Speaker 3:All right he's my bench coach. Now wait a minute. What. This gets even trickier.
Speaker 2:This gets even trickier because he gets the Boston job the next year and they won the World Series. And you know who won the World Series from him.
Speaker 4:No, not Folk, Keith.
Speaker 2:Folk. He pitched. They were down 3-0 to the Yankees and he pitched every night and he won the World Series for them. I didn't realize that Not only did they take Francona from him, he took Falk with him.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:So Francona had already managed the Phillies by then. Right had to have yeah, and when he was out of a job, Well, no, he went to the Phillies, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:And then he I think he worked for Cleveland for a year or two and then he was Show Walden's bench coach in Texas.
Speaker 2:That's right, so that year that I got the job in Oakland. I also interviewed in New York for the Mets job, Chicago for the Cubs job, Tampa for the Rays job and Milwaukee Okay. So it was kind of a hot commodity because we were winning in Oakland. Okay, so that's when Billy called me and he said, do you want to manage this team? And so that's how that worked out, but Francona took bulk with him.
Speaker 1:Now did the fact that Francona worked for you as bench coach.
Speaker 2:My mother told me quit telling Francona all your secrets. That's what she told me. What are you doing?
Speaker 1:She said so he got the interview with you.
Speaker 2:Well, what happened? When I went to all these interviews, terry was in Montreal my first year coaching, okay, so I knew him from there. Actually, he got traded out of spring training and went to the Reds and then, when I managed in the Arizona Fall League, I had one team, the Rafters, and he had the Scottsdale's team that had Jordan on it, that's right.
Speaker 1:Michael Jordan, he managed, michael Jordan.
Speaker 2:So we'd get together and have dinner or whatever once in a while. So we became friends. But everywhere I interviewed I said I want Frank Kona with me. I wanted to have somebody on my staff who had previous managerial experience in the big ones and there's a reason behind that experience than the big ones. And there's a reason behind that. The reason is only you as a manager knows what you go through when all this stuff happens. So sometimes somebody needs to come in and say hang with them, or this or that, because you make these decisions, you win or lose. You made the right decision or you didn't, or whatever You'd like to have. So I had Terry and then I had Rene Latchman, jeez.
Speaker 4:Rene was my. He's awesome, he is awesome.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, he's my catching coach. He's awesome, he's the best.
Speaker 2:Okay, he's awesome. I love both. That was my biggest mistake when I went to Milwaukee. I should have taken him with me.
Speaker 4:Talk about a guy with a book.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, his book. He's unreal. But my bench coach in Milwaukee was Willie Randolph and the reason I got him was Ricky Weeks was playing second base and he needed help with defense.
Speaker 4:He's an associate manager now with Milwaukee Ricky.
Speaker 2:Oh, ricky, weeks, Uh-huh Okay.
Speaker 4:I played with him at Tampa Bay.
Speaker 1:Ken did you know Willie Randolph from your Pirate days. Yeah we were drafted the same year. How about that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we played together on the 74 team, 75 team. Jeez, I mean we can get into this Pirate thing. I got all this stuff for these pirate things, but when I came up in 74, it was all pirates that came through the system. Yeah, yes, okay. And then they started getting traded away and there was free agency and all that other stuff. But there was another wave of pirates coming through. Okay, so Steve Nicosia, he was coming, and Willie Randolph was coming, and Tony Armas, who wound up hitting 40 home runs in Boston one year. He's coming. And then they had Omar Marino and Miguel DeLonay and Mitchell Page, who wound up being a pretty good. So the wave of pirates were coming through you know, except for me.
Speaker 2:I was playing third base. Craig Reynolds was a shortstop that played a lot with Houston, had a great career with Houston. So you had this wave coming through of talented players and they wound up getting traded away because of the free agency and stuff like that. And of course Chuck Tanner came in and he had to have Phil Garner, so they traded six players for him and the guys were going. Richie Zisk went to the White Sox for Gossage. He came and spent one year and he was gone. Richie Zisk was a pretty good hitter.
Speaker 1:He was a tremendous hitter. What team? The Lumber Company? That was the Lumber Company.
Speaker 2:So when I'm coming up through the minor leagues in 74, I've led the league in hitting and all that stuff. Then I got a triple A and I hit a 301 one year and 335 the next year.
Speaker 4:You see a lot of lumber in front of you.
Speaker 2:Now I see, yeah, there's lumber in front of you. But now I see these guys come out. Oh, this guy's having a great year, he's hitting 280.
Speaker 3:What yeah well 280.
Speaker 1:What 280 wouldn't have gotten you to the big leagues back then?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's a different ball game.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a different ball game, so we talked earlier about Ramon Hernandez. Yeah, and I like him as a catcher Huge huge fan, yeah, and in Milwaukee, the guy that and here again I have a hard time thinking about his name, but he came up. He was a young kid. He was there my last year, a catcher, catcher we'll get it.
Speaker 1:We'll get it. Yeah, look at that, I've got a phone. I don't answer.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you got me, I'm wearing your phone I'm looking at your phone now see, if I remember, yeah, he played uh.
Speaker 2:Let's see if I can remember. Yeah, he played 2010.
Speaker 3:But he was in spring training and we had Jason Kendall who got hurt in spring training.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to say. Kendall. Kendall was there. He got hurt in spring training. We had another catcher who got hurt in spring training.
Speaker 1:Oh, jonathan, lucroy, Lucroy.
Speaker 4:You had Lucroy, yeah, oh, in Milwaukee yeah, I'm doing a camp with him in January.
Speaker 2:Well, tell him, I said it, I will, I will, I like them, but anyhow.
Speaker 4:Played against Luke Roy all the way through college, all the way through the minor leagues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Jonathan Luke Roy.
Speaker 4:So I love the guy Speaking of Japan, do you? And he learned how to catch Japanese style. That's why it was always different, he could have started some trends. It's because he was always a hitter first, especially in college. They never let him catch enough. He got in a pro ball, finally got to cut which you probably know all this and he really took ownership of it. Watching him do that I was one one proud as all get out, knowing you know this guy competed against for a long time, but when he did a lot.
Speaker 2:They brought him from a ball to catch a sprint training games, you know. So I'm good with that. I fired him in there, you know, and he started a little bit with the bat, but you know it's catching the ball, good. So they didn't know what to do in milwaukee is. They had a catcher who, uh, was a latin guy who hit 330 or whatever, and you had lucroy was it maldonado?
Speaker 4:it wasn't maldonado he was right behind maldonado. Never could hit, never okay yeah, I've run across Melvin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:He never could hit. Yeah, but anyhow, doug Melvin came to me and said what are we going to do with these two guys? And I said, well, what did Luke Roy hit? And he said, well, he hit 270. And I feel bad that I'm not moving them up to AAA or whatever, because we've got this other kid. And I said, well, send them back to AA and say, luke, you've got to raise the bar, brother, whoa, 270 is not enough.
Speaker 1:Whoa Okay.
Speaker 2:Move it up. And the next thing you know he was in the big leagues and he spent a bunch of years in the big leagues yeah, became an all-star.
Speaker 1:I mean, he was really good, he was really good yeah he was really good, right.
Speaker 2:So there's an idea thrown out there that you hit 280, that's not enough.
Speaker 3:That's okay.
Speaker 4:That's not enough. It's at a premier position too. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's not enough. So maybe that's how the development has gone. But you know the parts where we were hitters and yeah, you had to hit 300.
Speaker 4:You had to learn how to hit the ball you want to gather that group up and walk over there a little, just rub elbows. Who's that they always talk about? We need more hitting, so just go rub elbows with the guys you need more hitting. Remember back in the day this is a lumber company, right here, boys, yeah, they, yeah, those were all.
Speaker 2:They were hitters. But you know, come down to scouting and stuff like that, and you know that's what they did. They drafted me because I could hit a little bit and then they was trying to find a position for me and that never, you know, materialized, so that I would be given I played the last 24 games of the 77 series a season, at third base, hit 274. How about that? And got sent out in spring training. Jeez, after 335 in triple A, wow.
Speaker 1:This is really remarkable. It is remarkable, do you?
Speaker 4:still swing. Yeah, I still swing.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's good so do you have a?
Speaker 2:so I got my chance to play every day it was in japan.
Speaker 1:I went there. Okay, I got over all star world over. How is that over?
Speaker 2:300 lifetime. I'm proud of that. Yeah, how was japan?
Speaker 4:how was japan for you? Because it was, it was a goal of mine. I started my last year playing a couple different positions. It didn't work out, but I was looking to go to Japan or Korea. How was that experience?
Speaker 2:Well, first of all, I was the only American on the team, so that was probably tough, and my wife and son came over my first year, so the family bonding time was large. It was large. That was us. We were whatever, and my wife wound up making some friends. People worked for Boeing and McDonnell Douglas and Exxon Mobil, and they were Americans in the same way. But I went to the ballpark every day and the Japanese players were terrific. They spoke survival English and so I had to learn survival Japanese, you know.
Speaker 4:I've never heard it put like that.
Speaker 1:That's good, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 4:I like that a lot. I've never heard it put like that.
Speaker 2:So the first year I needed an interpreter. The first year After that I didn't need one.
Speaker 1:You got a lot of fun.
Speaker 2:I could go around Tokyo and eat and stuff like that, and I stayed for the most part.
Speaker 4:That's that engineer brain. Yes, yes, I could have done that.
Speaker 2:For the most part I stayed with the team, so we'd particularly go to a hotel in Osaka and it was all japanese style hotel and you ate together and everything. So you went on the tatami floors and they had little tables like that. After you showered up and you sat there and they brought out the teppanyaki or shabu-shabu. They eat. Well, right, yeah, you're, and the food's all you know. You prepare the food for yourself and you know this guy's sitting over there and he pours you a beer and you pour him a beer and you know it was a great experience.
Speaker 4:Do you feel like the team chemistry over there was different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 4:I feel like every time. I've heard anybody that's gone over there. They just say the culture's just so much different. It's so much more family-oriented, so much more team-based.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was good. They kind of contacted me last year. They wanted me to come over. They were having like an old-timers game and that's a long flight and maybe I should have.
Speaker 1:But that's a great experience.
Speaker 4:Yeah, great experience, so cool.
Speaker 1:Do you have a little extra time, maybe a half hour, 45 minutes left. I got whatever you want. You sure let's go, has the boss said.
Speaker 2:This is okay Because I don't want to be in trouble with her. We're having leftovers, All the leftovers we're having. I already cooked them.
Speaker 1:So I know they're tasty. Oh, you cooked them. He's in a good house. I know they're tasty, because this is only half of the Ken Maka story here on, hold my Cutter, we've got another program coming your way.
Speaker 1:And we want to thank again Eric Katz. You know, finding a home isning eye to ensure it suits your taste and budget. Before you think of anyone else, remember to check out AskAraKatzcom. Ara. Ask A-R-A-H-K-A-T-Zcom because she knows Ara Katz with Berkshire Hathaway Home Services, your real estate aficionado. Call her for unparalleled guidance expertise, whether you're buying or selling. Eric Katz, just like well, like Eric Parsegian, that's the only era I had known before. But without the era didn't have the H Era. Does Eric Katz Remember to ask era because she knows. Ask for Eric Katz with Berkshire Hathaway Home Service for your real estate needs. Ask for Eric Katz with Berkshire Hathaway Home Service for your real estate needs, askerikatzcom, and tell her the fort and Greg Brown sent you Curious about what your home is worth. You don't have to worry about it or be curious anymore. Just ask Eric Katz, you will not regret it. And again, our thanks to Ken Mock on this episode of Hold my Cutter, another one coming your way soon. So be watching or listening.
