Hold My Cutter
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Hold My Cutter
Ken Macha on Baseball Legends, Japanese Influence, and Career Highlights
Baseball fans, you're in for a treat as we chat with the legendary Ken Macha, who shares riveting tales from his storied career. Ken takes us behind the scenes, offering a firsthand look at the contrasting managerial styles of Murtaugh and Tanner and the strategies that made Tanner's teams a force on the field. With anecdotes about playing alongside icons like Parker and Stargell, as well as memorable stories about Ed Ott's wrestling move and Rennie Stennett's injury, Ken's narrative is a treasure trove of baseball lore and personal triumphs.
In an intriguing twist, our conversation branches out to uncover the fascinating influence of Japanese baseball techniques on American players. Ken opens up about his transformative experience with a Japanese secondary hitting instructor who revolutionized his approach at the plate by emphasizing strategic body mechanics. We explore the exceptional work ethic and discipline of Japanese players, illustrating the evolution of their baseball culture with nods to luminaries like Ichiro and Shohei Ohtani, highlighting their meticulous approach to both hitting and pitching.
For those who relish baseball nostalgia, Ken weaves together vivid memories of his career milestones and the vibrant atmosphere of baseball cities like Montreal. From attending the first game of the 1960 World Series to witnessing three perfect games firsthand, Ken's remarkable journey is filled with fortuitous encounters and unforgettable moments. He also shares his connection to baseball greatness as the first cousin of Hall of Famer Hal Neuhauser, sealing his story with a personal touch that underscores the resilience and unpredictability of the game we all love.
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We welcome you to another edition of Hold my Cutter. We're coming your way here. Burned by Rocky Vidal, a few blocks down the road from ESC Park on the North Shore. Our guest is the great Ken Maka, part two of our episode, which we're going to get into some really not that the first episode wasn't interesting, but we have some great, great stories. We'll continue to talk to Ken Maka, greg Brown, along with the Fort, michael McHenry and this episode brought to you by Berkshire Hathaway Home Services and the great Era Katz.
Speaker 1:Just like the business school Not sure there's any affiliation, but it's spelled the same way she's our MVP in real estate and a top producing realtor at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services. If you're thinking about buying or selling, you need to call Aera Katz. She's been knocking it out of the park for over a decade. She handles your home like she handles her own and you're in good company. She's good people, believe us. So do us a favor and check out her website, askeraakatzcom. That's askeraakatz with Berkshire Hathaway HomeServices. Thanks again to Aera Katz, thanks to the great Ken Maka who has recommended and we're heavy into our white label Rocky Patel it's kind of like the all-star and Ken Maka we're talking about some all-stars.
Speaker 3:Also an all-star right.
Speaker 1:With the Chinichi Dragons, our first episode. We talked about how he learned just enough Japanese and, along the way, not only learned Japanese but learning the game as you went along, ken, in different facets, different levels. You talk about how you were managed in the big leagues by guys like well, you love Dick Williams. Of course, murtaugh and Tanner. They were different managers, weren't they? Murtaugh initially and then Tanner Right? They were different managers, weren't they? Murtaugh initially and then Tanner Right? But way different. I remember when Tanner came on board it changed dramatically from the lumber company to lumber and lightning. He wanted the team to steal bases and you had Omar Marino and other teammates of yours.
Speaker 4:No matter what the score was, they were stealing bases.
Speaker 3:What was his thought behind that? I love that.
Speaker 4:Well, to be uh the aggressiveness and uh, yeah, he wanted the other team to realize we were coming at him, you know, from all angles. So that's what he did. So, uh, we played in cincinnati one day and uh, trevara stalled with pen run lead hall, so they brought in jo Horner. He hit him with a pitch and Johnny Bench put a bear hug on him and Horner was a left pander. He came in and gave him a hook to the jaw. They saw all his bases. They weren't real happy with that.
Speaker 4:But, you know you want to everybody to be aggressive. His first base coach would have a signal with you this is a good time to take off, and stuff like that. So I actually maybe got one or two stolen bases you did.
Speaker 1:Even you, Kenny Mocko.
Speaker 4:Don't be laughing, Kenny speak.
Speaker 1:Well, wait a minute.
Speaker 4:I talked to you earlier about that year I had in AA yeah, I had 20 stolen bases.
Speaker 1:No, I did not know that. Yeah, how many stolen bases, how many times?
Speaker 4:were you caught? I think 23 home runs and 20 stolen bases.
Speaker 1:Whoopsies, I'm not knocking your speed, by the way, but I recall you as being a bigger player, a big guy. Third base, first outfield.
Speaker 4:You weren't looking at the rest of the team.
Speaker 1:You mean, how they stole?
Speaker 4:No, how big those guys were. Oh, compared to them.
Speaker 1:You were talking about Zisk and Parker.
Speaker 4:Parker and Stargell and. Candelaria and John Bibby. Those are some big humans. They were big guys. Gossage was a big guy, harry Forster was huge.
Speaker 1:Holy cow Forster was big.
Speaker 4:You're going to go on the field to fight our team at your own risk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you had trouble. At your own risk you had trouble.
Speaker 4:Yeah, at your own risk.
Speaker 3:It's the little guys you've got to worry about Ed Ott.
Speaker 1:Oh jeez At aught, oh jeez At aught. A wrestler, See that replay of Felix Mion.
Speaker 4:Y'all yeah.
Speaker 1:He picked up Felix Mion and and sent him to Japan the next year Slammed him, slammed him.
Speaker 3:He was in.
Speaker 1:Japan the next year.
Speaker 4:Well, he played in Japan the next year, jeez.
Speaker 1:He slammed him into the ground head first, I mean lifted him up. He was a wrestler in Muncie.
Speaker 4:PA, wasn't he the late? Yeah, I think he finished second in the state.
Speaker 3:Something like that. He's a good guy to go attack.
Speaker 1:Speaking of injuries, it was an injury, I guess, to Rennie Stennett that really allowed you to play a bunch late in 77, right, right.
Speaker 4:Right. Here again the sliding in second base becomes a problem. So Rennie was leading the lead and hitting 330, something like that Slid into second base broke his ankle. Pretty much limited his career after that because he had a hard time turning on the back foot.
Speaker 3:That's a tough surgery even now, let alone then.
Speaker 4:Right, I mean that's a little Tiger Woodges-ish.
Speaker 3:Makes sense. Yeah, You're talking about everything you need to unload right there.
Speaker 4:Right, yeah, so it kind of ended his career and Tanner was a manager then and I had gotten called up. I'm sitting there watching a lot of games and you know, first Dale Barrow went out there and then Fernando Gonzalez got a chance to play, and then he called me in the office one day and said can you play third?
Speaker 2:and I said yeah, well I've never played third, but oh no, I had played third in uh 76 I might.
Speaker 3:I had this running joke with my triple a manager my very last year. He would ask me hey, can you play second base? I was like funny thing is that's my best position everywhere.
Speaker 3:He asked me that's my best position, because I was just you know I was on the it was at the end of my career, probably and we had an incredibly talented team. Almost everybody on the dime was a prospect. So I knew where I stood. I was going to be the backup catcher, catch the prospects, help the staff, the staff, and when I got a chance I'd play. Didn't play a lot, probably got 130 at-bats over the year. We won the championship. But every time he asked I'll never forget, can you pitch? I was like that's my worst position. I went up and gave a grand slam to a couple guys and Homer to Pedro Alvarez. Never forget it.
Speaker 4:I I think that's always a good learning thing for kids. To back up a little bit free agency started in 76.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, and I was playing third base in Charleston that year, my first year at third base. I went from catching the first base to third base, so now I'm only half a year playing third base.
Speaker 3:Get to center, you got the diamond.
Speaker 4:Right. So it happened there's going to be a free agent, which he became a free agent, and he wound up leaving. So now that spot was open, and then, when tanner came in, they traded everybody to get phil garner to take his spot at third base. So that's how that all happened then, when stan Stan broke his ankle, Gardner went second and then that was kind of a rotating who was going to play. But like I said, they tried kind of everybody there yeah.
Speaker 3:When you were playing, where did you feel like if you just were able to stick at a position would have been your best?
Speaker 4:opportunity to be an everyday guy.
Speaker 3:I liked the catching part okay because you have the mind for it.
Speaker 4:I can hear it I like the catching part, but I wind up going japan and playing third base every day yeah, there's no american catchers. I tried I tried really, really hard so I went over and one year I had 25 errors, something like that, which is a lot. And then one year I had three errors, which is not a lot. What Three errors? The whole year, that's not many at all. Did not have a bad throw.
Speaker 3:Come on, no throwing errors, no throwing. That's remarkable. No throwing errors, it's usually all throwing errors I've had 106 games.
Speaker 4:This is third base At third base 106 games.
Speaker 3:Longest throw, no throwing errors. That's incredible.
Speaker 4:And 106 games. I got hurt so I missed some games. I pulled my groin. But I recently had a thing down at William Mary where this historian from Japan came and him and I gave a little talk and I told him about that. He looked it up. Three errors that's unbelievable, no throwing errors, so a little proud of that.
Speaker 3:You've got to take a lot of pride in that.
Speaker 4:You talk about fundamentals that's fundamental.
Speaker 1:What was the key, Ken, do you think, from going from 20-plus to three? Was there one thing that somebody told you you learned?
Speaker 4:Just playing. That's the way they work. That's the way they work. Yeah, that's the way they work.
Speaker 3:So I mean, the next year I had 20 again it's funny because not Rene, but you talked about Rene in the previous Rene Lachman.
Speaker 3:Rene Lachman in the previous episode, but Marcel came up to me I was struggling. He Rene Lachman in the previous episode. But Marcel came up to me I was struggling. He goes Michael, listen, you cannot identify anything until you get 100 of bats. And ever since I noticed that you really can't Like. It takes about 100 of bats or so many times out in the field, so many chances, and then it all starts to even out. You'll see a trend a little bit better, a little bit worse, or somewhere right where he's always been. I mean it really is remarkable over amount of time and obviously with analytics you can see a lot of things a lot quicker. So guys give up a lot sooner, but theoretically over a certain amount of time. You know, if I got 400 bats in the big leagues, I was about a 20-horn hitter because of the numbers. That and that was the same way in the minor leagues, but I never got them stacked together. So I never was a 20-home run hitter Right.
Speaker 3:But, you start to think about it like wow, I get this.
Speaker 4:I'm one of those guys that had one home run, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yet in the minor leagues I'd hit 14.
Speaker 3:It took me, it felt like it took me forever and I hit 31 one year in. Japan, which is crazy, right yeah, what do you?
Speaker 4:think so I'm going to tell you the way they study technique. This is in Japan, yeah in Japan the way they study technique. I had this hitting. He was like the secondary hitting instructor. He was awesome. He basically taught me how to pull the ball. That's so cool Because I played in the States here and you had to hit 300.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so you were working inside out, so you learn how to hit the ball the other way and use the whole field. You have barrel control and he told me, he taught me how to pull the ball so what it what?
Speaker 3:how did he go about it?
Speaker 4:well, um, how did he go about it? Well, you have, because that's really tough, right that? Like, because you have to buy in oh, I did, though you did, and that's the biggest key I got you to buy in, then what? So well. The technique was you can't open your front.
Speaker 3:Hip up say that again you cannot open your did you hear that you can't open your front hip?
Speaker 4:yes, that bad head has got to get out there can I get an?
Speaker 3:amen can I get an amen? And where your upper body goes, the bottom half will follow.
Speaker 4:This part right here. He would take a glove and put it in there so that you're not doing this Once you do this the knob of the bat is going to the pitcher. You're this way, but if the back of your hand is facing the pitcher, this is in there, and then the hips and hands go together.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, once that upper half goes, that bottom half will always follow Absolutely. We focus so much on that bottom half.
Speaker 4:He used to say in his survival English keep, keep and keep. I love that. Keep that all in there. Let the bad head get out there.
Speaker 3:I say the same thing to there and it's amazing, it's almost no effort.
Speaker 4:You get the bat head out there and the ball jumps off the bat.
Speaker 1:So it's a guy in Japan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he helped me out doing that Theoretically they're known for what back control doing little things. That's amazing.
Speaker 4:Well, anyhow, I went down to William Mary and we're talking about he's talking to me about the difference between American and Japanese baseball and I talked about it and their work ethic and all that stuff and I played a lot against a lot of guys over there back in the 80s. Yeah, I was there 82, 3, 4, and 5. And I looked at them and said, hey, these guys are pretty good players. They just haven't taken the thing.
Speaker 4:No, taken the chance to go over there. That's what I'm saying To the States. Yeah, so then Nomo and Sasaki and Ichiro.
Speaker 3:Well, right now they won that World Baseball Classic. They're the best they do.
Speaker 4:Right. So yeah, that's what all the kids in this class students you know.
Speaker 1:I said who's the best player in baseball? Now, yeah, right now. Yeah, that's Ani, so it's yeah, their work ethic is second to none, right, he's a little bit bigger than the normal.
Speaker 4:They got that other pitcher that's been here for quite a while now. Pittsburgh, darvish, darvish, I've caught him.
Speaker 2:He's nasty.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Big human too.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was facing those guys over there.
Speaker 3:It's a different style, did you feel like? I mean, I remember facing them in Hawaii and this is some of their top prospects the fork ball, the split finger, the hesitation with their delivery Right, it was different.
Speaker 4:Well, the other thing is this when they take their pitchers and they work them out, they put home plate down there and they put the lines for the batter box, and then these pitchers concentrate on throwing it in that tunnel, okay, or that tunnel.
Speaker 3:So if you're going up there, that's called the river.
Speaker 4:That's the river.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's the river.
Speaker 4:Who called?
Speaker 3:that Umpire. Umpire told me he's like, yeah, that's the river, I'll give the river if it's presented well, I thought that was pretty cool. Who? Said that An umpire that I know what umpire American umpire American umpire.
Speaker 4:Oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's obviously in college.
Speaker 4:If you're going up there to hit, look for one down the middle, it ain't coming. Okay, and sometimes I swear they would take batting cards for the game and they'd have the coaches behind the stands. And if you're up there and you're hitting every other ball in the stands, I love this. Okay, you're hitting every other ball in the stands. The term is zecotro, zecotro. You're in best condition. Yeah, they'll throw you in the lineup. So you're no, I played every day, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I played.
Speaker 4:Every day. You're in the lineup, so the other team knows your best condition, so they're not going to throw you straight. They'd intentionally go 3-0 on you. I thought anyhow, knowing that the manager would give you a take, boom, strike Okay, and now you're looking for a heater. You ain't getting that. They throw you a slider, that's strike two, and then they drop the split finger on you and you swing on it in the third you get yourself out.
Speaker 4:That's some psychology right there. That was so many at bats. It would happen like that you know?
Speaker 3:did they ever start to give you the green light? No, no.
Speaker 4:I'll try to explain that to you. We came down the last game of the season and wound up winning that game my first year there winning the championship. The hitter on their team was hitting .351. A hitter on our team was hitting .350. He was our leadoff hitter. They walked him every time they did. That guy didn't play, so that guy won the batting title. Wow, and they want this, our guy. So I said the art guy said what? Throw your bat at it? Throw your bat at it. And he said no, no, that's can't do that can't do that Because of
Speaker 3:respect.
Speaker 1:Wow, holy cow, he lost the batting title.
Speaker 4:He lost the batting title by one point, jeez. Because they didn't play that guy on the other team. Oh my gosh, the season was basically over and if we win that game, we win the pennant. If we lose, the Giants win the pennant. So we're not playing the Giants, we're playing the Whales. The Giants are sitting in the stand, they're walking that guy every time and I'm hitting third, so I'm up every time where the guy's on base, you're the man and we wind up winning 9.
Speaker 4:Where the guy's on base, we wound up winning 9-0.
Speaker 1:We're the Chinichi Dragons. What was?
Speaker 3:your all's mascot Dragon, just a straight dragon.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Did they do the trend that they have now, where if you had a home run, they give you stuff to animals?
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, they did all that.
Speaker 2:Do you have any of them still? I don't know. They give you stuff to animals. Oh yeah, they did all that. No, is that right? Do you have any of them still?
Speaker 4:I don't know if I have any stuffed animals. That's what they gave you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you come around home, they hand you stuff to animals. Oh, that's funny. Right there at home plate they hand it to you.
Speaker 4:They'll give you a little something else?
Speaker 1:Ah, a little cheese cheese. This a little cheese cheese this is how they do it here. They put it here is that right? So that's putting up her sleeve, so that your wife doesn't know.
Speaker 4:You're no honey, yeah, so you're putting it up.
Speaker 1:Wow, oh my gosh. But I went home, gave it to my wife, so that was 82 to 85, 82 to 85 and now. So you come back to the states. What's the first thing you did in 86 after I called?
Speaker 4:called at the end of 85. I hit 300 my last year. You knew you were. I was 35 years old. I'd get up there and they'd hit a ball and I'd look we had a dirt infield, all dirt. I'd see the ball hit there and say to myself probably should have had that one. I'm not moving too well. You know age got in there.
Speaker 1:So I called the people in Montreal and they had a spot for me, and that started my coaching career. You mentioned your first home run. Right, only home run. I didn't say that you said it, you said only. I said first. Do you remember the date?
Speaker 4:I'm going to think it was May 5th or 6th.
Speaker 1:Well, you're right. Oh, is that good, May 4th 1980.
Speaker 4:May 4th, okay, May 4th 1980. He was still thinking about it. I know yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you remember the pitcher Ed Halicki? Ed Halicki of the Giants right.
Speaker 4:I'll stretch this out for you. Well, I do. Yeah, okay, we're playing the Giants the doubleheader on Sunday In Montreal. In Montreal, and on Saturday night Larry Parrish is our third baseman. He got hit with a pitch. So Williams called me in the office and said get your rest, you're in there tonight. That was one nice thing he would do If he were going to play the next day. He let me know.
Speaker 3:Did you? Carry that over as a manager. Oh yeah, yeah, that is a big deal.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry to interrupt you, but just a question about that because I'm curious regarding that. But you also said Dick Williams would play all those guys, understandably. So all the time right, Just about all the time right, just about all healthy so it would make sense to me that if a guy that doesn't play much, you're gonna let him know.
Speaker 3:You're gonna play the next day, right, right, okay, yeah, I just wanted.
Speaker 1:It's not as common as you think but in this day and age it seems like they do that a lot, like they tell players ahead of time oh, sometimes they have a week ahead of time.
Speaker 4:Sometimes they have the line I know, yeah, I just was they're more apt to tell the starters that they're not in there than to tell the bench players.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I'm sorry to interrupt.
Speaker 1:I was just curious to know about that. That's all right.
Speaker 4:He said you're in there. So I said okay, Come to the ballpark.
Speaker 1:John Montefiusto John the Count of Montefiusto and Ed Halecki.
Speaker 4:Okay, two right-handed pitchers that threw kind of sidearm Okay. So I went five for seven in that doubleheader.
Speaker 3:Off the sidearmers? Did you hit him in the right field.
Speaker 4:No, I hit the. Montefiusco threw me a curveball, hit it down the left field line. Hilleke, I hit that at the left center. He is a catcher, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:I remember that he nailed that yeah, because he remembers all this stuff, no doubt.
Speaker 4:I gotta think of this left handed pitcher.
Speaker 3:Came in and relief then you were licking your chops.
Speaker 4:I'll look it up. Oh no, this guy you'll look it up, okay you will look it up.
Speaker 1:I will, of course I will. We don't like to leave our listeners and viewers wanting information. Okay.
Speaker 4:So anyhow, I should know that. But anyhow, they brought him in in relief. So the first pitch he threw me I hit straight into the first base dugout.
Speaker 1:That's how hard this guy was throwing? Was he a lefty for the Giants? Lefty for the Giants 1980, lefty Giants 1980, yeah, he was a relief pitcher.
Speaker 4:I shouldn't so anyhow. So the next team in the next team coming in was Houston, oh, Al Holland.
Speaker 1:No, we just talked about Al Holland, gary.
Speaker 4:LaBelle, gary LaBelle.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:First pitch he threw, I hit it straight in the dugout. Next pitch, I hit right down the right field line for a triple. So in the doubleheader I hit it straight in the dugout.
Speaker 3:Next pitch, I hit right down the right field line for a triple.
Speaker 4:So in the doubleheader I hit a double off of on a fews go home, run off of a licky and a triple off of a and.
Speaker 2:I had a single.
Speaker 4:It was a circuit, but it was two games.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, but you hadn't played in a while, right.
Speaker 4:No, I hadn't played in a while. So, now, the next team coming in was Houston. Oh boy, nolan Ryan, oh, I was going to say JR Richards. Oh jeez, and.
Speaker 1:Joe.
Speaker 3:Necro Good luck. Oh, how was that?
Speaker 4:I kept hitting, you kept hitting, kept hitting those guys too. Yeah, I got a hit off of Nolan Ryan, one for two, I think, one for one off JR Richard and then Necro. I might have had two hits off him, so I had an inflated batting average. What a stretch. I had an inflated batting average, but you know what happened. The next team in was the Mets, and Craig Swan was pitching for the Mets and I had gotten a lot of hits off him in the minor leagues. I was feeling pretty good, but back to the bench. Really, yeah.
Speaker 1:Because they started, I think.
Speaker 4:Larry said that's enough. I'm glad you faced Nolan Ryan and JR Richard.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just saw the monsters sitting there.
Speaker 4:Let me lunch up on these guys. So I mean, it wasn't like that, but it kind of was. But that five-game stretch, what a stretch. That got me an extra year in the big leagues.
Speaker 1:Were those all home games, by the way, do you remember?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was home games. Yeah, Because you guys were drawing.
Speaker 1:I know that when you hit that home run there were 33,500 fans at Olympic Stadium. I mean, the team was so good. You'll ask him.
Speaker 4:About winning. No people in the stands. You don't even know they're in the stands.
Speaker 1:No, no, I understand that but that adds to the story, the fact that this is a Montreal Expos that no longer exists.
Speaker 4:We drew $2.2 million that year, which they should.
Speaker 3:I just went to Montreal.
Speaker 4:It's beautiful, so that was going to leave me they need to bring a team back. I agree with you 1,000%. I mean, that is a great place.
Speaker 2:That's what I was going to ask you, Kenny. 235,000 people at the F1.
Speaker 4:We went on vacation a couple, three, maybe four or five years ago. We went up to Lake George, stayed overnight. Then we drove up to Montreal, drove around the city, went to where the stadium is. It's a vibrant city, People are walking around. It is awesome.
Speaker 3:It's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's an awesome city and the reason that they left Montreal was the ownership. So when I was a player there and became a coach, Charles Broffman owned the team and he's the Seagram's guy.
Speaker 2:That's where he made his money with the Seagram's and he was tremendous.
Speaker 4:He'd come to spring training, put a uniform on. He'd be standing over first base.
Speaker 3:I think that's a separator for front office. You think you're nervous when you're playing in the game and you're throwing the first.
Speaker 4:Now you're getting ground balls. You got to throw it over. Don't be short on this guy. He probably doesn't have a cup on. Okay, I'm just saying.
Speaker 2:Don't hit him in the wiener.
Speaker 4:When I was coaching.
Speaker 4:He's still on the team and he invited us to his house, which was in Westmont and we went as coaches and he was flipping the burgers Wow, yeah, he was awesome, he was awesome. So, anyhow, we traded Randy Johnson and got Mark Langston putting a pennant run on and it burned out and you know, he just said that's, I've had enough. So, uh, he sold it to a local group, okay, and then they sold it to, uh, the guy that owned the Marlins, gloria. Gloria, and the people in Montreal are very uh, and the people in Montreal are very, not just being part of Canada, but French Canada. They didn't want some art guy from New York coming here and taking their money. So, for me, major League Baseball screwed that up, Okay, because they didn't play very well.
Speaker 4:It was awesome there.
Speaker 3:It's an awesome place yeah it's an awesome place.
Speaker 4:They love baseball. They did Again, as evidenced by the number.
Speaker 1:They'll never go back. You don't think they'll go back?
Speaker 4:No, Expansion team? I don't think so.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:They're trying hard.
Speaker 4:They're trying hard to get a team there.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I don't think they'll go back. Wow, the team there.
Speaker 1:I don't think they'll get back. Wow, I think that's why they had those exhibition games almost every year. We were there just a couple years ago, it seems.
Speaker 2:Again, they're drawn close to 50,000.
Speaker 4:You think about that. You didn't get invited. I played for Montreal and I was doing root sports at the time. You'd think they'd take me out there.
Speaker 1:This is why we're doing Hold my Cutter.
Speaker 3:Listen, kids. Common sense in baseball is dead a lot of times.
Speaker 4:I'm not going to disagree with you on that one.
Speaker 3:I mean it's just a reality. Like I'm watching the Steelers game last night and I'm watching an alumni game and I was like we don't have one of those. We don't have a Pirates alumni game.
Speaker 1:They had an alumni game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all the alumni were there last night watching the game.
Speaker 1:They actually played a game.
Speaker 3:No, they were just there.
Speaker 1:Oh, they were just there to watch it. They were just there, I see, I see.
Speaker 4:Well, they bring in the 79 World Series.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but I'm talking about your alumni. You're invited. That's what they did last night, and that was cool.
Speaker 1:I thought that game. They were celebrating a Super Bowl team, I believe, but they do.
Speaker 3:Either way, but but they called it an alumni game. Yeah, and my mind went to how cool would it be to just bring back old alumni?
Speaker 1:Well agreed.
Speaker 2:One day, 100 days, 30 years. What's interesting about that? I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 4:Along those lines. I mean, and I talked to our alumni director there, I said, look, I played with Parker in A ball. I played with him in a ball, Okay, and then two years in the big leagues and here again because I played one. There's a certain amount of respect there.
Speaker 2:Sure, you know.
Speaker 4:But this guy's struggling, you know, and I'd like to at least bring him in for the 79 thing. I would like to just go say hello. I missed it by one year, but I know all those guys, absolutely, I would like to just go say hello, I missed it by one year. But I know all those guys, Absolutely. I see those guys, but I haven't had the opportunity to say hello to him, Whereas I run into Candelaria and I used to run into Keeson.
Speaker 3:But think about what that probably meant a lot to him Because you did come through, I mean, some of my greatest friends and guys I still keep up to today. I came through the minor leagues with Right. Didn't necessarily have any moment in the big league with them, but I mean you go through the grind in the minor leagues.
Speaker 4:Oh, you do you get so close. There's a guy that lives up in northern Cambria, up by Emmonsburg. I played in 73-74 with him in the AA and I still play golf. I played golf with him yesterday.
Speaker 1:What's his name?
Speaker 4:Frank Frontino.
Speaker 1:Never made it to the big league. Never made it to the big leagues.
Speaker 3:There's more of those guys, way more than sure Of course, it does mean a lot because, like, the story started somewhere else, you know you get to see the best part of the story as fans, but the story started somewhere else and it's people like Ken that are teammates, that helped you along in certain instances that you remember more because it catapulted you forward.
Speaker 1:Ken was Parker, a top five guy that you ever played with. Certainly when does he rank of the guys you played with?
Speaker 4:We were talking about the Hall of Famers you played with. Here again, I went to Salem first year. You know I'd been in pro ball two weeks. They took me down to Bradenton and I had indoctrination. Yeah, indoctrination. I had one of those gloves that was like a circle.
Speaker 2:I had to get rid of that.
Speaker 3:I'm booting everything.
Speaker 4:They called it the donut Sadowski threw one in the dirt and hit me in the throat. I couldn't talk for three days. Anyhow, parker, here's this guy. He's 6'5" and he's hitting vicious line drives. He had a down stroke and these balls are just jumping off his bat. You know, and I think he wound up leading the league in hitting. One night he came up we were playing in Kinston and he had a line drive and it hit this pitcher in the chest. Oh Okay, that ruined that guy's career Really. The next time he pitched against us, every time he threw it he was recoiling.
Speaker 3:Which is common. A lot of guys don't talk about it, but you get hit once you think about it for a long time.
Speaker 4:He hit him in the chest. So as far as being one of the top players, I mean other guys, yeah, but you play with so many great players I played with Tony Perez. He's in the Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1:We're talking about. Off the air, off the show we're talking about. Is there such a thing as clutch hitting?
Speaker 4:Was Tony Perez one of the greatest. That. That's 79 going down to the end. We're with the parts going to 79. One of the games in montreal donnie robinson will tell you about that. At bat I'm telling you he had 10, 12 pitches back. He just kept following the balls off and wound up hitting the ball in the middle for a base hit. He was something else and we Montreal moved him on to Boston the next year and that kind of hurt the team a little bit in 1980. We wound up getting around the floor to play and Camardi came in and put first base. But Tony Perez was kind of like the Willie Sargell.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah so yeah, he clutched it the glue.
Speaker 4:So you, there's guys, Brian Braun that I had in Milwaukee. I'd much rather had Prince Fielder hit him than Ryan Braun if the game was on the line.
Speaker 3:Explain that.
Speaker 4:Explain that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love Prince. That's why I asked.
Speaker 4:He, just he grounded out, whereas Braun, the guy who'd make a tough pitch on him, the guy who'd bring him up, he didn't give up. Yeah, yeah, prince you know you talk about meetings you have with guys. So my first year, and we'll get it. This is a subject that you'll like.
Speaker 4:My first year managing. He come in the office and he said, skip, I need a day off. What I said I need a day off. What he said yeah, I need a day off. I said, right, there's Yankees' new book. I want you to look at Alex Rodriguez. Open that up. 159 games, 160 games, 158 games, 161 games. I said you want to make a lot of money. He played every game two years and then he signed with Texas $12 million a year or whatever.
Speaker 1:He said I need a day off. And you showed him that.
Speaker 4:I said you go put that book up and see how many games Alec Rodriguez plays and how much money he's making.
Speaker 3:Wow Did that put any fire in him. What's that? Did that put any fire in him?
Speaker 4:Oh, he played, I mean he played hurt he had bandaged up. I remember coming to Pittsburgh one day and he was all bandaged up. Of course he liked that it's worth a fence out there in Wrightville.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and at that time the Pirates weren't very good at that time. You guys had an extremely good offense.
Speaker 4:I'm telling you, our starting pitching two years was dead, last in the PRA League. So it's tough when you don't have the pitching Now.
Speaker 3:you know, looking at next year we've got five pretty good starters, you know, I think anyhow watching them Talking about the Buccos?
Speaker 4:right, yeah, the Buccos. Oh yeah, they should be able to put something together.
Speaker 3:They've got seven, or eight that are pretty good.
Speaker 4:Right so.
Speaker 1:Hey, Kenny, you were drafted in 72, right.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Out of Pitt? Yeah, did you. What were your thoughts about the Clemente situation when he passed away? Were you a Pirate fan growing up? Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Okay, I went to the first game of the 60 World Series. You did, my dad took me and my mother is kind of a devout Catholic and she wrote I had a doctor's appointment that day. She would never lie, so she said I had a doctor's appointment. So they're all day gaming.
Speaker 3:Thanks Mom.
Speaker 4:So the Pirates won that first game and Mazerowski hit a home run in that game too. But we sat people if they knew what Portfield was like in right field. It was short, 300 feet, and they had a big screen and they had a double deck. We were in the lower deck, last row, so any ball that was hit in the air you couldn't see it, uh-huh, you know, because the overhang was coming out there. But yeah, my dad took me there and consequently I was at Pitt at the time, 71. Mm-hmm, and you probably think this is hard to believe, but I bought my dad two tickets. We've got two tickets and we sat in the upper deck of three river stadium in 71 for the first night game, wow. And I went to webster hall and bought those tickets it wasn't sold out.
Speaker 3:No kidding, no, I'm telling you oh my gosh, I think they're running like the cheapest seat I saw.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we were in the upper deck in center field. Wow, and that's when Milt May, you know, got the base hit and Keeson pitched. And the next year. There I am in spring training with all those guys.
Speaker 1:And you became good friends with Keeson yeah.
Speaker 4:I did. What a small world you became, good friends with Keeson.
Speaker 1:No-transcript.
Speaker 4:I've been down with their coach a couple times. I kind of live pretty far out. I mean you know he's very welcoming, come down any time, but I don't really. I went down maybe saw two games. They played cal last year, yeah berkeley yeah so that's. This is crazy here too. But cal berkeley come in and they had like an alumni day so I went down for that. I figured they put me in a hall of fame. I should go for the might as well my game.
Speaker 4:So I went, their head coach's name was Mike New. He pitched for me in 2003. No way Sat in the bullpen. Next he was a World 5 draft for Oakland. He was in the bullpen and sat next to Keith. Fulk the whole time. Yeah, jeez, that's incredible. So, I think he's probably still their coach, I don't know. Unbelievable. He pitched for me in Oakland yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, how about Doc? That was unbelievable. That is unbelievable. But another former Pitt guy. You think about it? In a two-year span, the Pirates get two guys. Well, he wasn't drafted by the Pirates Doc Medich, by the Pirates Doc Medich. Did you know Doc at all?
Speaker 4:I do, and I was a sophomore playing left field and he was pitching.
Speaker 1:He was pitching.
Speaker 4:I remember going down to West Virginia and all the Scots were behind the screen there and he was trying to throw 400 miles an hour, was he yeah?
Speaker 2:See those guns come up. Balls were flying everywhere, all over the place.
Speaker 4:Okay, all over the place. And then I mean he wound up getting drafted by the Yankees and he'd call me up in the winter and say, come on down to Pitt and catch me.
Speaker 4:So I'd do that every once in a while, but I would be in the back of the bus with the regular guys and hit the end of the front reading oh yeah, yeah, the doc Gray's Anatomy, the front reading, uh, oh yeah, yeah, the doc gray's anatomy, whatever. That is okay, so, but he's a good guy and you know they, they uh sent out a thing to me saying you know who you think should be part of the hall of fame. And fifth, how can you not have oh my gosh yeah yeah, how can you not have? Him jeez not any baseball player. He played tight end on the football team.
Speaker 3:Come on.
Speaker 4:Didn't know that. Wow, no kidding, and we had. This is we had. Our first baseman was Frank Gustine Jr. Oh my gosh, yeah, he played basketball football and baseball at Pitt.
Speaker 1:Wow, gustine Jr, gustine Jr, where's his dad, the former?
Speaker 4:He had a bar right. Oh yeah, right across the street from Forbes Field, frank Gustine.
Speaker 1:Wow, we're talking to Ken Mock on this edition of Hold my Cutter, brought to you by the great Eric Katz at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services. Home inventory is scarce, interest rates are high, multiple offers enough to make your head spin. Now more than ever, you need a knowledgeable real estate agent. You need a closer. You don't want to win the game, but you want to finish with the least amount of stress on you and your family. So call Eric Katz, realtor at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services, at 814-758-8623. 814-758-8623. Eric Katz, do that and do it today. She is awesome, as is Ken Maka. You mentioned where you were on the bus. In an earlier episode we were talking to you about managers that you've either been a bench coach with or played for. You mentioned Buck Rogers. He was with the Angels, I think in spring training one year, and there was a bus accident. I don't know the details. It wasn't spring training, it was during the regular season Regular season.
Speaker 4:We were in New York, we played an ex-earning game and I think we won the game. We were playing the Yankees and we're going to Baltimore. So the bus driver just we're watching a movie and we just drove right off the road. Did he fall asleep when?
Speaker 2:were you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, they say he fell asleep.
Speaker 2:So we had an extra game.
Speaker 4:It was an extra inning game. It was late. You know when were you seated on that bus. I was maybe in the third row back and Buck was in the first seat where the door is, and that thing came and kind of crushed his leg, so yeah, he had a hard time after that.
Speaker 1:But he came back. Yeah, yeah, it was very, very scary, very serious, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:I got home, they gave us a day off the next day, so I drove home to Pittsburgh and I took out my wallet to pay for the credit card and there was shards of glass in my wallet. I opened it up and it was glass was everywhere. You speak of experiences that you have with guys. This bus went like this and tilted on the side like that. It's on the side up against some trees and everybody was like and Buck was saying alright, everybody, get off, don't worry about me, blah, blah, blah, blah, this and that. So I looked up and chuck finley who is awesome he was standing up on there on the top of this bus pulling people out of it. Really, wow, that was awesome. Chuck finley, uh, the pitch for the yeah, outstanding. Yeah, he was great pitcher, pitcher, but what a guy. Yeah, but he was there trying to pull people out of there. But I vividly remember him on the bus. You weren't hurt at all, I wasn't hurt, yeah.
Speaker 1:What a scary moment. Well, you were a part of some great teams. We talked about that in the first episode with Ken Mock on Hold my Cutter. We did not talk about the unusual trivia question who is the only former big league manager ever to have witnessed three perfect games?
Speaker 4:Come on In person, three perfect games In uniform.
Speaker 3:In uniform. Did we find out how many there are all the time? He's the first and only.
Speaker 2:Oh, what do you mean?
Speaker 3:How many total?
Speaker 1:perfect games. No, it's all about how many people witnessed it in uniform Ken.
Speaker 4:Maka In uniform. Tell us about each one. Ken Len Barker was with Cleveland. We were in Cleveland. It was Friday night before the Kentucky Derby, so it was in May, and if you've been early May in Cleveland it's pretty cold 24.
Speaker 1:24 all-time 24 all-time perfect games. You were in uniform for three of them, three.
Speaker 3:Okay, where were you the other 21? Jeez, louise, show off. What the hell's wrong with me Shave myself, yeah.
Speaker 4:But anyhow, we're in old Cleveland Stadium and it's cavernous and there's no people there and I'm sure there's a lot of people saying they were there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sure.
Speaker 4:So I was a player with the Blue Jays and, yeah, he threw a perfect game and then the next day it was a Kentucky Derby. Then I got to play on the Sunday. You had to be lucky. I remember playing on the Sunday.
Speaker 3:Did you go bet on a horse the next day? I did not. You should have found perfect and bet on it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I wasn't thinking fast enough. Yeah, man, but then that was the first one. The second one I was a coach with the Expos and we're playing the Dodgers and on Friday night Mark Gardner was pitching for us and he no, hit the Dodgers into the 10th inning. And he was still pitching into the 10th inning and somebody got a hit off him and we lost that game. But you knew right then, the Dodgers they're not swinging the bat very well. So the next day then a smart team is why not into a perfect game? Oh my gosh. And tommy lasorda stood up on the top step of the dog, got and started going like this try to get the fans to rattle than a smart team is.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. That was terrible he did, he tried to get the fans to rattle yeah.
Speaker 4:Wow. And the next one was when I was a coach with Angels. Yeah, Angels, Kenny Rogers threw a no-hitter in her perfect game in Texas. So yeah, three perfect games.
Speaker 3:That's incredible 24, all-time 24, all-time.
Speaker 1:You're like better than Ron Hasse. Ron Hasse caught two of them.
Speaker 4:That's unbelievable.
Speaker 1:He caught the Lenny.
Speaker 4:Barker and he caught the….
Speaker 3:That's incredible, that is unbelievable.
Speaker 4:Yeah, same guy caught both. So yeah, that's. You said that's one of your goals catch a perfect game.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's one of my goals.
Speaker 4:Do you have any eligibility left?
Speaker 2:Maybe at Fantasy Camp yeah we'll go into Fantasy Camp, fantasy Camp.
Speaker 1:Okay. So, kenny, the three perfect games, the players, those that you've managed, those that you've played with. You've seen some of the greats, you've been a part of some incredible teams. Is there any truth to the rumor that you are a cousin of a Hall of Famer? I am A first cousin, First cousin, to Hal Neuhauser, hal Neuhauser, hal Neuhauser Wow.
Speaker 4:The great Tiger pitcher. Yeah, you go to Tiger Stadium. Oh yeah, he's right next to Ty.
Speaker 1:Cobb. Now what's your?
Speaker 4:bloodline. My dad was the youngest in the family and my aunt was second in the family, and they had six kids.
Speaker 1:Did you know them? Yeah, unbelievable. Yeah, so it runs in the blood. Yeah.
Speaker 4:So, I went up to his funeral and stuff like that. As a matter of fact, his wife gave me a watch of his and they gave him that watch when they retired his number. I have it at home somewhere and don't wear it. They gave him that watch. She wrote a note saying I don't know what I'd do with this. Maybe, jeez, yeah that's never be duplicated. The number of wins he's got, like 29, 26, and 25.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, no chance 29, 26, and 25. No chance. Well, that's because, of course, starting pitchers don't last that long.
Speaker 3:What do you speak of Starting?
Speaker 1:what.
Speaker 4:Well, they threw the bullpen last night, didn't they?
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well that was going to be one of my questions is that you were around that time. You were playing, I think, Ken, when that started to turn right, when starting pitchers became less relevant, or not.
Speaker 4:Well, here you're going to get into the starting pitching thing. Here we go. I'm going back to my Montreal days. So we're playing San Diego, okay, playing San Diego. So it's like the fifth inning and we need to pinch hit. Somebody needs to pinch hit and I'm like the last guy on the bench, so we're going to use me here instead of saving me for the ninth inning.
Speaker 4:So William says you've got to get up there and hit for the pitcher, it's okay. So I look out there. It's Gaylord Perry. I said this guy's 43 years old. He threw three fastballs right by me. Right by me, 43 years old, a little movement on that fastball.
Speaker 4:Well, no, you know what. Everybody talks about him doing all that stuff. You don't believe it If you look at it. He had over 600 starts and he had over 300 complete games. Wow, and he lasted. He's thrown his fastball right by me at 43. That's incredible, yeah, Wow. So I mean you've got to look at it. You can't just put everything in the box. You've got to look at guys' genetics. Yeah, You've got to look at it. You can't just put everything in the box.
Speaker 3:You've got to look at guys' genetics. Yeah, sure, I mean Nolan Ryan threw a no-hitter.
Speaker 4:When he was what?
Speaker 1:45 years old or 46? I mean, come on.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you know 46. And I faced him in the 80s, so he was he's getting up there he was in his prime.
Speaker 1:He was blowing gas.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah he was blowing gas.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was blowing some gas. So the point about the starting pitching and people you know old schoolers want those starters to go out there longer. They don't like the fact that the bullpen is used early. But the counterargument is that the manager and these teams are trying to win games. I think the best way to win games is to go to these hard-throwing relievers, especially after the starter sees the lineup a couple of times. What do you say to that?
Speaker 4:Well, I can go back to what Buck Rogers kind of taught me. He was grooming me to do what I did. Buck Rogers kind of taught me he was grooming me to do what I did and he always emphasized that everybody should have three pitchers, at least something soft. Okay, we talked a little bit earlier about Ramon Hernandez. I could tell him hey, go out and tell the guy to use his changeup, get some early action, get some ground balls get them out ahead.
Speaker 1:Just so we understand that this is a catcher. You're the manager and you were telling Ramon Hernandez you're a catcher?
Speaker 4:Yeah, but the pitcher's got to have that equipment. Yeah, I understand.
Speaker 1:But just so we're on the same page, because this is so interesting that here's the manager of the team talking to the catcher about doing this.
Speaker 4:Yeah, the pitch count's getting a little high. We need a little early action. So you get strike one, throw him a changeup or a first pitch changeup, but anyhow, that's what Buck Rogers said. So he said that you know, so that you can go through the lineup three times and the guy's not just sitting on fastball hard and slider hard, okay. Then all of a sudden he's going to be subtracting, okay, and get him off that fastball and now you're going to get some jam shots with the fastball, you're going to get some ground balls so that you've got a. You know, look at Skeets, he's got that. You know he can go the distance okay.
Speaker 4:Now Keller I don't know if he's got something soft right now where he can do it and the other young kid Jones, he's a hard everything, so the equipment that he has he should be the closer.
Speaker 2:He's got that stuff.
Speaker 4:yeah, he should be the closer because he can go whatever. They just use the closer. One inning now. But back in the day Gossage came in. He threw three innings, Three innings. Story about Gossage Only here one year.
Speaker 3:That's like Hayter on San Diego former starter, and when he came up he was closing games with three innings yeah.
Speaker 1:So then, I don't know what he did this past year, but I remember he was not happy about the fact he was pitching more than an inning two years ago yeah, and that that that probably comes from an agent or trying to protect him, whatever but yeah, I'm with you, it's all part of it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's all part of it gossage is here.
Speaker 4:We're playing the dodgers. So the dodgers back in 77, ron say, bill rus, russell, davey Lopes, steve Garvey, dusty Baker, rick Monday. That night Steve Yeager I think was catching, I'm not sure. Anyhow, they brought in Gossage Pitch, brought him in the seventh inning. Hire a spring in Gossage, brought in Gossage seventh inning, struck out eight guys. Only one guy hit the ball and it was a foul pop-up. What so nobody put a ball in play, nobody put the ball in play.
Speaker 4:It could have been Eddie Fainter in that thing, there didn't need to be anybody in the field. Struck out eight guys Most awesome display I've ever seen and struck out eight guys most awesome display I've ever seen and that wasn't the charleston charlie.
Speaker 1:No one against. Yeah, it's funny because, uh, during the covid year, I and a few others did a little exercise of drafting the greatest to our team. We were gms and we went through a draft and we tried to create the greatest pirates team ever.
Speaker 4:I know you drafted me first.
Speaker 1:Well, I didn't. It was on the top of your mind. No, no, no.
Speaker 4:You looked at that picture in your attic. No, no, no, I want this guy right here you signed to Lou Slott.
Speaker 2:right, I would not lie to you, okay.
Speaker 3:Who was your first pick.
Speaker 1:I don't remember Whoever was first. I'm sure drafted Hannes Wagner, then somebody drafted Starr Joe Clemente. I mean I think there were five of us, so I've got one of those guys. But the point is, being older, knowing about 77 automatically. And somebody else drafted Teague, of course, or Elroy, but for me Goose Gossage, maybe to this day, ken, I don't know that I've seen a more dominant closer and, as you said, he can pitch three innings too, by the way, I mean my goodness Right, he was ridiculous.
Speaker 4:Well, he was a starter with the White Sox Tanner made him a closer. And I'm going to say this and I'm not outlying because I'm warming these guys up. Terry Forster threw just as hard.
Speaker 3:Did he?
Speaker 4:really Maybe harder. Wow, really.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it hits you different, doesn't it?
Speaker 4:It was heavy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that heavy fastball is different yeah it was a heavy fastball.
Speaker 1:Yeah, think about that. They had the lefty Forster and the righty Gossage.
Speaker 4:Well, the bullpen was Forster Gossage, grant Jackson oh Teak. And Odell Jones my gosh, who could throw our two right, yeah?
Speaker 1:that was the bullpen. Only five guys in the bullpens, five guys in the bullpen, five guys in the bullpen, wow yeah so I meant the starters the starters are getting out there.
Speaker 4:so you've got five guys in the bullpen, your starters are gonna have have to learn how to pitch to get to the seventh inning, right, right. So if you've got seven guys in the bullpen or eight, whatever they got now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but there's something to be said about the eye test, that gut feeling. Like you can tell if a guy has good stuff that day. You can tell when he's struggling fighting through it. You get him 3-5. Right, but like it seems like it's just maybe a habit, I'm going to go grab him at that sixth inning mark, because here comes that third time through. It doesn't matter how good they are. Right, it's crazy to me.
Speaker 4:Right, well, just a funny story. I had Esabon Uiza in Oakland my last year, so he went out there first pitch. He threw 82. I said a pitching cut, that's a changeup. He said that's all. He's got Something's wrong with him. 82? I said, don't worry, we'll get three innings out of him Because he's below hitting speed. Okay, so you could see these guys come up there and hit a ground ball and they'd touch first and be walking in there Like what's going on?
Speaker 2:You could see them.
Speaker 4:This guy's got nothing today. So we got him out of there after the third inning, but he pitched three innings. Was he hurt? He was hurt, yeah, but he went out there.
Speaker 1:You've got to love the fact that he went out there.
Speaker 4:yeah, that was a big guy. That was a big guy, yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like a parachute comes behind the ball. You think it's going to be so much harder and it's not.
Speaker 4:We got three innings out. I'm over happy.
Speaker 1:So that's part of the journey, you know if we didn't know any better, we would have thought that Ken Maka did some TV work in the past, right, oh yeah, I did.
Speaker 3:How'd you get into that?
Speaker 4:Well, I got fired in Oakland and Messon called me up and said can you come do some work here? So my wife answered the phone and she said boy, you're really going to be interested in this. So they flew me up because I'm in the minor league system with the Red Sox, and so I said they'd fly me up there. I'd do one week a month. So I'd do that whole week and go home and they had four guys Eckersley and Jim Rice, oh wow. And a couple Hall of Finers, and then a guy named Lou Merloni oh yeah, okay, he was a little in-tour.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he played for me in the minor leagues.
Speaker 1:Oh be darned, yeah, did you ever, you and Eckersley, were you ever on together? Oh yeah, Would you? Ever talk about other teams? And would Eckersley ever talk about a hodgepodge of?
Speaker 4:nothingness. He liked to be there when Oakland was there.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, so when.
Speaker 4:I was there and Oakland was there he wanted to be there. Because he was an Oakland guy too. He had nothing good to say about.
Speaker 2:Billy Beam.
Speaker 4:Trust me, he didn't have anything to say about it, but he just if he saw it the way it was, it came out of his mouth.
Speaker 3:Very transparent.
Speaker 4:There was no sugarcoating on any of the words yeah.
Speaker 1:So it's been great to have Ken Maka, who of course has done some local stuff, of course on TV as well, and he's a local legend he's a yinzer. Would you mind coming back?
Speaker 4:I'm a legend oh, you are, come on To me.
Speaker 1:I've got your picture in the attic.
Speaker 3:All right, come on I told you that You're a legend to me, with the mice and stuff.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I mean I think I do, Orkin will take care of it. Will you come back again sometime?
Speaker 4:I'm okay with doing that I don't know if I talked about everything.
Speaker 3:You covered everything. No, no, I want to dig into what makes a great coach. Yeah, we'll get into that. Who are the best coaches you've been?
Speaker 1:around, especially Ken, when I called you and you said hold my cutter.
Speaker 2:I would love to be on hold my cutter. There you go. Are you kidding?
Speaker 1:The best baseball cigar podcast around.
Speaker 4:I was holding Buck Jackson's cutter. That's right and that's the point of the show Exactly.
Speaker 1:Hold my cutter. And again, our thanks to Eric Katz. Ask Eric, she knows Eric Katz at Berkshire Hathaway Home Services. Remember, ask Eric because she knows. Ask for Eric Katz with Berkshire Hathaway Home Services for all your real estate needs. Askerikatzcom, tell her the Fort NGB sent you Curious what your home is worth. If you don't at least ask Eric Katz, you will regret it and you'll regret not continuing to what Like and follow us right, absolutely.
Speaker 3:All platforms. You can find us YouTube like subscribe ask questions.
Speaker 1:Check out the first episode of Kenny Bacchus. Hold my Cutter and make sure you're looking out for the next one as well. Thanks for joining us.
