Hold My Cutter
Former Big League Catcher, Michael Mckenry & long-time broadcaster, Greg Brown team up for a one-of-a-kind podcast centered around baseball & stogies. Fascinating in-person guests include present & former players, managers, broadcasters, writers & other personalities, from politics to pop culture. Laugh, learn & live a little! with "Hold My Cutter"
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Hold My Cutter
Don Kelly's Remarkable Path in Baseball
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Discover the magic of Pittsburgh baseball and the vibrant Yinzer culture in our latest episode of Hold my Cutter, where Greg Brown and Michael McKenry are joined by a special guest. We kick off our discussion at Burned by Rocky Patel, diving into the fascinating world of the San Andreas cigar and its humorous connection to Don Kelly's adventures. You'll get chuckles from our debate on what truly defines a "Yinzer," with John Wehner taking the spotlight as our appointed "judge" of this unique identity. As we explore the baseball journeys of Donnie Keller and others, we paint a picture of PNC Park's serene beauty under the night sky and the passion that fuels a lifelong love for the game.
Journey alongside us from high school diamonds to the major leagues, as our guest shares their personal growth story marked by unexpected opportunities and perseverance. Learn from the impactful mentorship of legendary coach Ed McCloskey, whose innovative coaching methods left a lasting legacy in baseball. The tales of triumph and challenges faced in the Coastal Plain League, including the thrill of being drafted by the Detroit Tigers, highlight the transformative power of resilience and determination. Our conversation reveals the importance of embracing competition and seizing every opportunity, echoing lessons that resonate in modern coaching practices.
We wrap up with an exploration of resilience in the face of adversity, from overcoming injuries to crafting a liberated mindset in professional baseball. Hear stories of personal growth and serendipitous meetings, like the heartwarming basketball connection that led to a lifelong partnership. As we recount the experiences of facing iconic teams like the Yankees, you'll gain insights into the pressures and privileges of major league baseball. Celebrate the development journey of the Pittsburgh Pirates and the remarkable resilience of players like Jared Triolo. Stay tuned as we welcome the legendary Don Kelly to share his captivating career stories, promising more engaging and insightful conversations in upcoming episodes.
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Welcome to Hold my Cutter. We're coming your way here at Burned by Rocky Patel, just a few blocks down from PNC Park on the North Shore. Greg Brown, michael McHenry and, as always, our special guest, decides on what our smoke of the week is, and this one is the San Andreas, the Rocky Patel, and it is a doozy son Dark Mexican San Andreas Maduro wrapper. Finally, aged for no less than 11 years, the Rocky Patel Vintage 2006 San Andreas, another addition to the vintage line, one of the finest collections of premium cigars on the market, created in Rocky's Nicaraguan Cigar Factory and Fort usually nicknames these cigars. Do you have one?
Speaker 2in mind. I do so. 06 was my draft, you know. So this was built in 06. Drafted number one, just like Luke Hochaver. So this is the hoach, this is the hoach. The hoach, yeah. And two, we should maybe clarify how this was found, please. Right, the San Andreas Fault shakes you to the bones, right? So how he gets the tobacco. Rocky Patel I don't know if you know Don Kelly, rocky Patel Good buddies, he's the Don Went down in the fault when they were playing in LA. Not only did they play well out there, he went and got us tobacco to make this cigar.
Speaker 1All true. Don Kelly, all true. Do you like it? I love it, I love it.
Speaker 2It was risky. Thanks for this selection. It was risky.
Speaker 1You just did make it out of there.
Speaker 2The fog got shaky when he went down there. It's like Chuck Norris, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1The Don the Don. This is a beauty, san Andreas. Don Kelly, who some consider I do, I consider you a yinzer. My broadcast partner, john Wainer, does not. We call John the judge. He makes the decisions. Oh yeah, judge, john, he makes the decisions on who's a yinzer, because he's a carrot guy and he thinks that anybody outside Pittsburgh proper can't call himself or herself a yinzer.
Speaker 2What is?
Speaker 3Pittsburgh proper? Do you know that? I don't. But I mean, I'm kind of struggling with this judge nickname oh yeah, judge John.
Speaker 1Oh yeah, he judges everybody.
Speaker 2He's also an executioner, but we don't talk about that side of the bat.
Speaker 3Well, we need to get rock in here. We need to talk about true Yenzers, because there's a lot of people that would take offense to that, including you. I do, I do, you're right.
Speaker 1You know that you don't have the dialect, you don't have the Yenzer, you never call like a. I don't know what they a steel mill.
Speaker 3You know Brownie.
Speaker 1Oh, you can do the dive pad. Yeah, we got it in there. You've just cleaned it up since you've become a big league coach.
Speaker 2That's one thing about Wainer. You should watch his old games when he first started. It's hilarious Because he had some really yinzuri's going.
Speaker 1It still comes out when he gets a little fiery in there, it comes out.
Speaker 2It's like everything in his soul just comes out of him.
Speaker 1Donnie, we had him in here earlier for Hold my Cutter, and he had a few coffees. How about the coffee? The coffee's great, sir Piping Hot.
Speaker 2Or.
Speaker 1Ice Coffee is what we've got going today.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, we like the Ice Coffee.
Speaker 1Donnie Keller, our guest. Now six seasons coming up on a pirate coach. Can you believe how fast it?
Speaker 3is going Six seasons, six, six, six, six. Wow, that's crazy, isn't it? What's it?
Speaker 1like for a Yinzer to be back wearing a Pirates uniform. Maybe take us back to when you got the call that you were going to be. We'll get to your playing days, but what was it like to come kind of full circle and become a coach now for the Pittsburgh Pirates?
Speaker 3I can just tell you from my standpoint walking out at night after games, I just it's unbelievable. It's so surreal. Leaving the dugout, I walked through the field every night.
Speaker 1You still feel that way, even now when you walk through. Oh, that's great.
Speaker 3Nobody's in the stadium, the city is lit up, it's the most beautiful ballpark in America and to walk out by myself sometimes my boys are with me to get that experience as a yinzer, to be with the Pirates and be here since 2020 and to get that call in 2019, December of 19, that they offered me the job to come back as the bench coach. Just an awesome moment as a Pittsburgher to be able to come back and be here.
Speaker 2Do you ever? I do this every now and then. Then I haven't done it in probably about a year or so, just games over. We obviously do the post game now in the studio, but I used to sit and kind of watch them pick up. Used to they pick up at night, now they pick up in the morning, but like I just sit there and kind of like just let life calm down. It's such an incredible, like surreal place, especially with the lights on. Like you said, do you ever just kind of go sit out in the stands or sit in the dugout for a little while after the?
Speaker 3game it is. You know, I haven't just sat there but just walking and taking my time walking out in the the. There's only certain they kill the lights. There's only like one light on each light tower that's giving enough light.
Speaker 2It's almost a little heavenly, it is.
Speaker 3And you see the city and it's calm and it's a really cool feeling.
Speaker 1Baseball in your blood, huh.
Speaker 3It is From day one, do you remember?
Speaker 1What was it? Why baseball?
Speaker 3I don't know. My dad loved the game. He got me into it and just took to it, loved it the ups, the downs, as we all know, there's a lot of failure in it, but learning through that, continuing to grow and get better, and just always enjoyed the game of baseball.
Speaker 1You're folks both from.
Speaker 3Pittsburgh, From Pittsburgh. Born in Butler.
Speaker 1Okay, that's the interstate, it's still theenzer territory. We got to ask Rock, you know how far does that go Surrounding?
Speaker 3counties. Yeah, going out there from Butler moved to Mount Lebanon when I was three.
Speaker 1What did they do for a living?
Speaker 3My dad was a banker, my mom was a homemaker and, like I said, mount Lebanon when I was three and have lived in Pittsburgh ever since and you had the big growth spurt, didn't you? I did so as a junior.
Speaker 2Yeah, this one hurt me to the core a little.
Speaker 3Junior in high school you had a little bit of a growth spurt.
Speaker 1Just listen, you did.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah At 11. And then it stopped, dude.
Speaker 3yeah, and I didn't start growing really until I was a junior. I was five, eight, five, nine as a junior in high school and now now I'm six, four I grew late, and here's the thing that I'll tell you this story. And I was telling alex avila in detroit the one year when I was a junior in high school I was in I would play second base. We had a guy named josh wilson who was he was okay, he was all right.
Speaker 3Yeah, pretty good player himself, best high school player that I had ever seen myself play and we had a senior shortstop, mike neemeth, who ended up I believe he went to colgate. He was a senior shortstop. Josh would play second. When josh would pitch, I would play second base. Well, josh is pitching, you're not going to dh for josh. So here I am as a junior. No, they would dh for me and I would only play second base. So I'm telling alex avila the story in detroit. Leland comes walking by.
Speaker 2That doesn't sound like a bad effing idea you think I can get away with that so good, it's classic oh my gosh, so uh, so you end up mount levin in high.
Speaker 1So you end up Mount Lebanon High School and you end up starring there and then going to Point Park. Fellow pioneer, you're in the Point Park Hall of Fame. Your numbers at Point Park were insane. Go ahead, sorry.
Speaker 2So you're a junior, you're 5'9". How much you grow between your junior and senior year? Is that when you?
Speaker 3had that score 6'1".
Speaker 2So did you just become like the guy who was DH for, to like kind of legendary?
Speaker 3No, or did it take some time to get all this to work together? It really didn't happen until I was at Point Park that I really developed and got better. But my senior year I started off hitting ninth and worked my way up and by the end of the year I was hitting fourth.
Speaker 2I tell kids all the time wait for it.
Speaker 3Yeah, it's going to come.
Speaker 2You know if kids all the time wait for it, yeah, it's gonna come. You know, if you grow late you're gonna surprise everybody, but your growth will continue where I was 12 throwing 86.
Speaker 1You know when you know, when I was 18, I was throwing 86. You know, it's a big difference. Yeah, so that's awesome. Uh, speaking of so, ed mccloskey, your coach, yeah, I mean talking about legend, right, legend at mount lebanon yeah, and now he's like an assistant for his son. Yeah, what makes a guy like Ed McCloskey so good? He's like 85 or so years old now.
Speaker 3He's his assistant for his son Matt.
Speaker 1Now he's assistant on the team. That's incredible.
Speaker 3Yeah, mrs McCloskey was my third grade teacher. Oh my gosh. So I had her in third grade and then Ed as a coach.
Speaker 2Was that a recruiting violation of some sort? Probably yeah.
Speaker 3Get away with it. So last year, my senior year, we won the state title in Pennsylvania and last year was our 25th anniversary. So to be able to have, there were 18 guys that came down to PNC Park, that we had a reunion of sorts and Ed came down. And when you talk about Ed, the passion that he down, and when you talk about ed, the passion that he has, when you talk about passion for the game just student of the game still at 80 some years old, still you can tell being around him he loves the game of baseball. Just continually learning and just tremendous guy.
Speaker 1Do you remember anything? Any lessons from those days that that still kind of hold true truisms? I guess these are kind of basics now in baseball. Any lessons from those days that still kind of hold true truisms? I guess these are kind of basics now in baseball. Any level in baseball, right, that you could learn from even a high school coach, of course. Oh, no doubt, Right.
Speaker 3Yeah, you're always learning, especially at that age. The one thing that I loved and looking back now as a coach that he did our senior year he was very regimented, very disciplined and everything. But the coach that he did our senior year he was very regimented, very disciplined and everything. But the one thing he did. He knew that that team was special and when we would practice it was a coach pitch bp, but there was, there was defense out there. Right, you had to play the position that you were going to play the next game. The first three innings, that was the teams. The last three innings were ours and you could play any position you wanted.
Speaker 2You guys were taking their shirts off, that's amazing.
Speaker 3Oh, it was freeing you know guys it freed guys up.
Speaker 2And what about the competitiveness?
Speaker 3oh, competitiveness, yeah, and you're you're playing against each other in a competitive environment, practicing but allowing.
Speaker 1He allowed us to be ourselves too well, that sounds like something that you take even to this day in spring training the guys. Then, as you, as bench coach, you set up these spring training drills and you'll do that.
Speaker 3You'll let these guys play just for for fun, as you say, freeing no doubt, and the one thing that that we've done um a couple years. We didn't get to do it this past year because the timing I don't know, the schedule was just kind of crazy. It seemed quick, it was quick and we didn't have back-to-back days at home. It was like it was every other day and it was there, was no, the rhythm was kind.
Speaker 3It was good for a sense of getting the guys there, but disjointed yeah, disjointed a little bit and we've had outfielders take infield and infielders play outfield and guys just love getting to a different position and kind of looking back at high school that's kind of that's where some of that comes from is like guys like ed that allowed us to experience different positions and freedom to just go out and play well, you've heard the.
Speaker 2The whole like thing that's going viral right now is like don't specialize in your sport now tell kids you can not play all kinds of sports?
Speaker 2yeah, yeah but that's kind of what you're doing when you're playing all those different positions right, when you can move guys around, you're making their bodies move differently. They have to fill things and I absolutely love that, because some kids just don't want to play basketball. They don't want to play football, they love with baseball. And I'm like you can't take that away from that kid, but don't marry him to a position at 13. And that's what a coach like that, like you, don't hear about that very often anymore. Most of the coaches now want to win now at 13, 14, all the way through high school.
Speaker 2That's so cool.
Speaker 3The fact you can implement it now too.
Speaker 2It's cool, really cool.
Speaker 3Why Point Park? How'd you end up there? Great question, brownie. So I had opportunities at Duquesne in West Virginia to be a recruited walk-on or go to Point Park as a scholarship player and get to play as a freshman, and best decision that I ever made was going to Point Park. Why do you say that I wouldn't be sitting here right now?
Speaker 1Really, I can guarantee you.
Speaker 3Because to get there as a freshman and be able to play as a freshman and go to a place that I wasn't fully developed, you know, a place that allowed me to grow, rather than going to a d1 school and sitting the bench until junior senior year, going to point park, getting to play, building confidence and developing myself physically but also as a person, was the best thing that ever happened.
Speaker 2What was that process? Take us through your freshman, sophomore, junior year, kind of how. That kind of manifested because you're 6'1 going in. I'm guessing I was 6'1" 6'2".
Speaker 3I grew a little bit at Point Park. I was probably 6'2" 6'3". By the time I got there I grew 170 pounds soaking wet. It's a beanpole yeah so I had never really lifted before. So to get to a place where I started working out, started lifting, started maturing and playing, as a freshman I played third base my freshman year and then switched over to shortstop my sophomore and junior year.
Speaker 2Big shortstop, man 6'4". Yeah, that's too low.
Speaker 3Yeah, I wasn't as good as too low. Not many, are I thought you were going to compare to.
Speaker 1O'Neal.
Speaker 2Oh man Cruz.
Speaker 1You need more stilts, tall shortstops, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3Yeah, so after my sophomore year I got the opportunity to go down to Petersburg, Virginia, and play in the Coastal Plain League. And that was really what year was that? I was there in 2000.
Baseball Journey to the Majors
Speaker 2Okay, I played there in 2005.
Speaker 3Who'd you play?
Speaker 2for the Swamp Dogs. Wow, was that Fayette, fayette yeah, I think it collapsed recently.
Speaker 3Did it? Yeah, I don't think it's.
Speaker 2The coach owned the team him and his dad and I think it just collapsed recently.
Speaker 1That doesn't get as much attention as the other leagues.
Speaker 3No, it's kind of like behind Cape Cod, maybe north is it Northwoods or Northwoods it's Northwoods, Coastal Plains, Coastal Plains you play as many games, it's just the travel's not as bad that Northwoods is no joke. Is it like?
Speaker 213, 14-hour bus trips everywhere you go.
Speaker 1Wow, that's crazy. So, Donnie, is that what stepped things up for you in terms of your development and when? I guess the Tigers took notice?
Speaker 3Yeah, so I think it was going into. So I went down to Coastal Playing League in Petersburg, had a good showing down. There came back and Mike Wilson was the head coach at Duquesne at the time and Josh's dad, and he ended up having a scout day which was awesome, duquesne. And then we followed Point Park after they were done and that was like the time that everything jump-started and started to kind of get recognized as an NAIA player.
Speaker 1What was the draft like for you in the Tigers? Select you oh it was crazy. How big a day was that. Where were you? I was at home. And back in the Tigers select you oh it was crazy. How big a day was that when were you.
Speaker 3I was at home. And back in the day. I don't know how it was when you got drafted for it.
Speaker 1This was 2001,. Right, this was 2001. Eighth rounder and it was all on the computer. And you were listening for oh that's crazy. No MLB network yeah.
Speaker 3No ML, yeah, and they said that you'll probably get a call 20 minutes before. I never got the call. We heard it on the computer before I got the phone call.
Speaker 2Oh man Same Did you really.
Speaker 3Yeah, it was wild. So to hear your name called, that you were drafted was really awesome.
Speaker 1And who called you?
Speaker 3Oh my God, Remember who the person was. You know what I think it was. Lou Laszlo was the guy that scouted me.
Speaker 1Lou Laszlo was the guy that scouted me. I think it was Dan.
Speaker 3Lunetta involved at the time Lunetta was there at the time.
Speaker 1So the Tigers draft you? Were you bummed out at all? Were you thinking the Pirates?
Speaker 3maybe I did so, I don't know if you remember a guy named Elmer Gray. Oh yeah, Legendary. Legend scout and I knew Elmer had scouted me and I knew that he had turned me in.
Speaker 1So I thought there maybe was a chance with the Pirates, but ended up going to Detroit, go to the Tigers, and now this sets the stage for your development in so many ways, I would think, because a number of minor league cities you don't make it to the big leagues with the Tigers you end up signing with the. Pirates after a handful of years in Detroit's system.
Speaker 2And that jump. So NAIA Coastal Plains, obviously you're playing a little bit better competition consistently. Did that prepare you for what you were going to face in rookie ball and short season? And as you went forward, because, like it's a big difference, because like I remember them saying you know when you get into pro ball you're going to face friday night guys every day yeah and then, as you move up, it's the best friday night guy.
Speaker 3Do you move up? It's crazy.
Speaker 2You're running into good competition in NAIA, but you may face a guy every other time. I was in a mid-major and most of the Friday night guys were drafted, or maybe a closer or two, but I never saw that Saturday night guy that you just feasted on. How was that adjustment for you?
Speaker 3Yeah, really good question. I think that, coming from Point Park, where one for you? Yeah, really good question. I think that you know as coming from point park, where we played our home games in in butler, at pullman park, so it was a hour drive. To play our home games, we used to practice underneath the bloomfield bridge, so you have the grit that's for sure, that's where that, like you know, you talk about love for the game. We're hitting wiffle balls on the wharf yeah, fishing them out of the.
Speaker 3Out of the. I go to Oneonta and here we've got batting cages and you know I'm looking at it like holy crap, this is unbelievable. Some of the Friday night guys are coming in and like oh man, this is not North Carolina or Texas or Bandy. And so to have that perspective going into it and get to face those guys. You know, yeah, it was difficult, it was challenging, but that's what we live for no doubt you know, that's what we live for and when, when you go in there and you get that opportunity to face those guys like um.
Speaker 3I'll never forget we were going back to coastal plain league and we faced a guy named bubby buzzacaro and he was undefeated made it to the big leagues with uh, atlanta, really, yeah, really good pitcher, especially I forget where he went north carolina, wesleyan or something like that but he had never lost in the coastal plain league before. He was undefeated. Wow, and we go out to face him and I'll never forget our coach. He's like hey, in order to be the best, you got to beat the best. And we went out and beat the guy for the first time and it was just like having that experience of like. Then the confidence starts to build from, like you said, coastal playing league. Then you get in, you start facing some of these really good pitchers every night. You start to prove to yourself hey, I, you can do this.
Speaker 1Yeah, so cool and you're playing oneonta, right? So, uh, is that where you met mike rubello for the first time? Yeah, that's the low level of the tiger system, and mike rubello then becomes a coach for the pirates, for the pirates, thanks to you, I guess.
Speaker 3Well, or vice versa I don't know about thanks to me, uh, but we were teammates and when shelty we were. When I got hired, we were talking about people to bring in baseball good baseball people and Rabs is a really really good baseball person and nobody better to get into the system. But yes, we were drafted the same year Two meets throughout the levels. No. So Rabs, first year in Oneonta, second year in West Michigan and then missed like a couple years and then we got back together in, I think, 05.
Speaker 1By the way you know, I think he struck out 16 times all year, that first year at Oneonta. Maybe that's too many.
Speaker 2Is that?
Speaker 1what it was 16. 16 times. You had some kind of crazy record at Point Park. Your philosophy was always put the ball in play.
Speaker 2I want to hear those numbers at Point Park too, by the way, I know you got them Crazy numbers.
Speaker 1What is it? I want to hear those numbers. His numbers at Point Park are crazy.
Speaker 3I only know one of them and the only reason I know this is I just ran into the guy that really taught me how to hit. That was instrumental. There were two guys. One was Al LeBarry, who is a hitting coach still in Carnegie, pa. If you ever get a chance, swing by his place. It is phenomenal. You talk about the Rocky training gym.
Speaker 2Oh, it's my favorite. Yes, you got to go, I got to go. You got to check him out. Write down the address, I'll show you. It's a one-room.
Speaker 3You would consider it a hole-in-the-wall type place. But he just breathes, he's just breeds. He's your mickey, he's the guy. Yeah, you know, come on, donnie, if you get down there. So the other day, um my two oldest, brett and luke, we ended up popping in to say hi to him just out of the blue and he started talking to the kids and he was like telling them this story about when I was at point park and I was going to get drafted and I only struck out four times the whole year in 104 hundred and four years.
Speaker 1That's so dumb. Do you have it? 158 at-bats? Well, first of all, in three years at Point Park, he struck out 20 times in three years. Three years. His OPS freshman year 978. Next year 1,059. Final season, point Park 1,092. Whoopsies 20 total strikeouts. But I didn't hit for power.
Speaker 3And I think that's who I was at the time. I never really became a power hitter, but I think when you look at development of hitters, to have that approach going in of back control, control the zone, opposite field approach and then learn as I grew up and developed how to pull the ball and how to drive the ball at point park I didn't drive the ball much, I was on base, steel bases, score runs, do that.
Speaker 2And you always have something to fall back on.
Speaker 3Yes.
Speaker 2I love guys that can control the barrel because you can teach quote unquote, whether it's in the weight room or whatever else. Power. I love guys that can control the barrel because you can teach quote unquote, whether it's in the weight room or whatever else.
Speaker 1Power, Power comes. If you're making consistent contact, good things are going to happen. Yeah, I agree, that's awesome. Were you ever frustrated, Donnie? Six years in the Tigers minor league system?
From Adversity to the Majors
Speaker 3Any frustrations that you didn't get an opportunity to play in the big leagues with Detroit at that time. That first go around? Really good question, but I did. They put question, but I did, so I they put me on the 40-man roster going into 04 and I ended up getting hurt, which, in hindsight, was one of the best things that ever happened to me, because why is that so it led me to? There was a guy that was is was training me here, steve aramis. He's still around. He's at amerifit in mount lebanon and I'm actually taking my boys there now. He's training my boys, but he was the one that was instrumental in figuring out what was going on. Took me to a PT up in Adrian, michigan named Gary Gray. They figured out that the shoulder problem that I was having was really a problem in my left hip.
Speaker 2Oh my God, the cross dominance. Yep, you're speaking my language wrong.
Speaker 3Ended up helping me gain more power as a hitter, because you're moving. Now I'm moving better, I'm using my legs, so if I didn't get hurt, I don't know if we would have figured that out. But had a terrible year. They took me off the 40 man, went back in 05. Had another really good year. They put me back on the 40 man after 05, going into 06, and I was terrible really terrible. So here's a kid from mount lebanon and I don't I hate to jump on any questions.
Speaker 3You have this will lead into it. No, no is. Here's a kid from mount lebanon that grew up trick-or-treating at jim leland's house that's crazy so I used I swear he gave out the he gave out the big candy bar.
Speaker 1The worst candy like the worst, the worst. I don't think I ever saw a candy bar. What do you mean, hey Katie?
Speaker 2Katie kids at the door, Go, go, go.
Speaker 1You never saw Leland. You saw Katie Boo.
Speaker 3We used to make sure we hit Leland's house because he gave the big candy bars. Now Tigers put me on the 40 man and they hire Jim Leland as the manager Stoked and scared to death.
Speaker 2Did you want the big candy bar too? Oh, I asked them first day.
Speaker 3So to have Leland as my manager. And here's another good story from Jim. I'm sitting there in spring training getting ready for a game we're playing the Yankees and Leland walks by my locker. I'm just sitting there he goes, kelly playing shortstop today, batting third against the Yankees on ESPN. Don't shit your pants, dude.
Speaker 1Oh my gosh. First ground ball right through my legs. No way you got it out of the way. Yeah, literally, yeah, it was bad, literally, literally, shit my pants. Unreal man, you've got to be kidding. Yeah, it was literally. Literally shit my pants. But just a little bit. Just a little bit so yeah and then.
Speaker 3So then from I made that mistake and then I played scared. From then on I was just spring training. Yes, because I and I was supposed to make the team, but I played so bad you played on your heels, I did yeah I was playing defensive.
Speaker 3I was playing not to make an error. I was playing not to strike out, I was playing not. And through that, through that time in my career, I learned I got. I got sent back to double a that year and I became like, um, I guess the thing that was going through my mind is are we playing a game of do's, are we playing a game of don'ts? And mentally, as we start, as I started to go, it's like, okay, if I'm gonna make it to the big leagues, I gotta change this from playing not to screw up to playing aggressive, to play the game of baseball and have fun, to go out there. And, you know, do things the right way, play free, like I did in high school. And if I wouldn't have gone through that, I don't think I would have would have learned that.
Speaker 1So what was that year like then? That last year in the minors with the Tigers yeah, it was hell.
Speaker 3With the.
Speaker 1Tigers yeah, it was hell, but you're freed up.
Speaker 3I didn't learn it until the end of that year. When I was freed up was when I came to Pittsburgh. Oh, wow, okay, does that make sense?
Speaker 2Yeah, you think you freed up because you kind of got out of where the don'ts were. Is that what it was?
Speaker 3No, got away from that, got away from that mindset of not screwing up to going out and playing the game and then so then it led into the Tigers took me off the 40 man. And I mean that off season was wild because the Tigers took me off the 40 man. In the beginning of September, carrie and I were dating. At the time we were engaged to get married. I ended up going back. I re-enrolled at school at Point Park.
Speaker 1Didn't know that To go back to do back. I re-enrolled at school at Point Park. Didn't know that To go back to do it.
Speaker 3I had a bad accident. I got burned on my hand, had ended up.
Speaker 2He saved somebody from a house fire.
Speaker 3Yeah, wait a second. Terry and I. What happened? We had a little fire at the house.
Speaker 1A little fire at the house. Just a little fire Burned my hand.
Speaker 3The dawn it was a grease fire. Jeez, this was rougher than the fault that I went into to get this tobacco.
Speaker 1Yeah well, that's where you learn your lesson how to get into the fault to get these cigars.
Speaker 3So anyway, long story short, ended up, the off season was unbelievable. I ended up graduating school, got married, signed with the Pirates and then made the team in spring training coming out of camp. So to go from playing the year before not to screw up and learning through that the mindset of staying aggressive, playing free, understanding what that takes and how that's not the way to go and then to be able to change that going into 2007 with the Buccos was.
Speaker 2Do you think all that kind of gave you a perspective, a lot Like what you're capable of? Like you graduate, you get married, you burn your hand and yet you're still going to camp, still going, yeah, well, no wait a minute Don.
Speaker 1You burned your hand before you were signed with a club, yet I did. Oh, they didn't know.
Speaker 2Did they know? Of course they did. You can say it now.
Speaker 3Weird things that happened around the offseason. There's this point about the hold my cutter.
Speaker 2There's the stories that come out later.
Speaker 3He could have played he would have been fine he could have played. I came in 100% in spring training.
Speaker 1Who made the call from the Pirates To sign me? Yeah.
Speaker 3It was through John Mercurio. Oh, it was. I can't wait to talk to Merck about this. Did you ever know? Oh, he'll say, yeah, I knew all along. Hey, merck's got some good stories the same guy.
Speaker 1How about that Merck signed Neil Walker too? Wow, pretty good so you end up were there other options too, besides the Pirates?
Speaker 3to sign that offseason yeah. I can't remember that offseason. As soon as you get a call from them, you're going right. Yeah, as soon as the Pirates called. What was that like?
Speaker 1to think I'm going to now play with the Pirates organization.
Speaker 3Yeah, I was so excited.
Speaker 1And your manager of the Pirates is spring training. It's unbelievable, jim. It's Donnie Kelly, man we love.
Speaker 2Don Jim Tracy. I love this guy man. He can play all the positions. I played for Jim Tracy too, did you?
Speaker 1So spring training now. You have a good spring, obviously because you made the club right.
Speaker 3I did yeah, A lot of things had to happen. Freddy Sanchez got hurt and then we had signed a guy named Nick Green from Atlanta.
Speaker 1Nick Green, nick Green, nick Green and he got hurt in spring training.
Speaker 3So Mick Green, nick Green, nick Green and he got hurt in spring training, so it gave me an opportunity to play.
Speaker 1What a tribute.
Speaker 3And I played second base a lot, a little bit of shortstop and played well enough to make the club.
Speaker 1And your first big league. By the way, you are one of only three Point Parkers, pioneers to make the big leagues right.
Speaker 2Yeah, I believe so.
Speaker 1John Stupor, the pitcher, and Bobby. Right, yeah, john Stupor the pitcher and, uh, bobby.
Speaker 3Madrish, bobby Madrish, when you say he played for Seattle, yeah, seattle and I believe. Cincinnati okay, or maybe drafted by Seattle played for Cincinnati something, but he made the big leagues yeah you, you and and uh, the other two and uh.
Speaker 1What was the first game like? I think you pinch hit opening day down in Houston right April 2nd 2007. How about this? Michael McHenry loves these ties. Ten inning, 4-2 Pirate win, Jason Bay. It's the home run.
Speaker 2Jason Bay is the only other Pirate to win Rookie of the Year before Paul Skeens.
Speaker 1And the winning pitcher in that game. Who was it? Matt Capps.
Speaker 2How about that Full circle?
Speaker 1But you pinch hit for Damaso Marte in the ninth inning and your first big league pitcher was Brad Lidge. Brad Lidge, Hello Yikes.
Speaker 2Slider's real huh.
Speaker 3Oh, he was filthy.
Speaker 1That was right in the middle of his prime, too Unbelievable. A couple days later you get your first base hit and again it's a pinch hit, pinch hit In the second inning.
Speaker 3So that game. Wait, wait, wait. Second inning For Zach Duke, for Zach Duke, and that game was against the San Francisco Giants. Barry Bonds hit two home runs in that game at PNC Park, and again, being a kid from Pittsburgh getting my first hit in the game.
Speaker 2That was cool. And to you know again, being a kid from Pittsburgh, getting my first hit in the game. Oh, that was cool. Man down, sorry, that's a don't.
Speaker 1That's a don't yeah that's a don't, that's another don't. So, yeah, how cool was that to have that be your first Stunk losing Felt.
Speaker 3Bad for Zach, yeah, but just very. He was unbelievable.
Speaker 1And your first hit off of Russ Ortiz. Oh nice, Pretty good stuff, yeah. So yeah, you're watching Barry Bonds. How surreal is that.
Speaker 3I mean unbelievable. He's not watching.
Speaker 2He's playing against.
Speaker 3He's a different animal.
Speaker 2You watch him growing up. Now he's like right there, that's so cool, he's not mythical.
Speaker 1You didn't get much playing time. 25 games total for the Pirates. Yeah, back to the minors.
Speaker 3Back to the minors and again going back to learning, being an everyday player in the minor leagues, getting up to the Pirates and being in a utility role, not getting to play every day it is, and you know what I falling back into that negative negativity.
Speaker 3You sit there and you wonder, okay, what do they expect me to do? I'm not getting an opportunity. They expect me to go out and play, and it becomes this negative type of thing. And what I learned that year is our brain doesn't have a switch in it that can go from negative, complaining, feeling sorry for ourselves and then you get an opportunity and now, oh, we got to flip it on and be positive and go and compete. Plus, you've got to try as hard as it is, even being in that role, to flip that switch, to be in that aggressive, positive mindset, because you never know when you're going to get that opportunity to play.
Speaker 2What did you tell yourself Like how did?
Speaker 3you In that moment.
Speaker 2I was not.
Speaker 3It sounds easy, but it's really hard In know I think it was reflecting on the year after 2007,. Being in Arizona applying some of the things that I learned through the minor leagues of the don't type of mentality. But then when I got the opportunity in Detroit is okay, I can't control if I'm in the lineup when I get to play. What's going on, I just have to be ready. And what is it going to take for me to be ready whenever Leland at the time needs me to be?
Speaker 2ready? What was it? What was you being ready? How would you define that?
Speaker 3It changed. You know like it evolved and I'm sure you dealt with some of the same stuff. You know, when you're not getting that opportunity to play every day, what are some things you can go to? Can you stand in on a bullpen? Opportunity to play every day? What are some things you can go to? Can you stand in on a bullpen? Can you do velo machine? Can you do? What are the things that you can go to that can help you stay prepared? You know, as a guy that played a lot of different positions, I had to take ground balls at third.
Speaker 2If I felt ready at third base, I was good everywhere else you're one of the first I've heard that most guys say, you know they need to make throws, yeah, but most of the time they say shortstop yeah, I had to be ready at third.
Speaker 3Isn't that interesting. What do I? That is speed, oh, the hot corner, if it makes sense it's shortstop, I felt like and I didn't play short all that much I knew that like, if, if I was going to go in, it was probably going to be third, maybe second, um outfield. So the hardest one for me was third base so the timing of the game was important there.
Speaker 2Yeah, wow well so.
Speaker 1So now you go back to the minor leagues and you end up playing in the minor leagues at Indianapolis with Andrew McCutcheon and Neil Walker right, yeah how cool is that? Unbelievable. That team was probably pretty good.
Speaker 3It was pretty good. We had Bixler, steve Pierce, uh, just awesome team. Neil and I got to play. I played short, he played third.
Speaker 2He was playing third base at the time.
Speaker 3So we shared the left side of the infield in AAA at Indy.
Speaker 1How did you end up meeting Kerry, by the way? Is it through his brother, matt?
Speaker 3No, it's funny, you ask, he swept off.
Speaker 2I mean obviously he just came in. It was a do immediately. Very aggressive there, Yep.
Speaker 3So when my sister and my wife played basketball and they played on the same AAU team in high school and then they ended up going to the NEC conference my wife Carrie went to Wagner, my sister Ashley went to Quinnipiac and I caught up to Matt in 2003 in double-A. He played for the Tigers as well and I caught up to him in double-A and still hadn't met Carrie. Didn't know Carrie. I go to watch my sister play her senior year at Quinnipiac and followed her down through Wagner.
Speaker 1This is what year. Okay, and Matt ended up meeting Carrie after the game, after Quinnipiac played Wagner in basketball so everyone thinks it's through baseball, but it was actually through basketball that we ended up meeting and through your sister, essentially, yeah, yes, wow, so you spend that one year at Indy. And then what happens after that?
Speaker 3season In Indy.
Speaker 1After the one year of the Pirates organization, I signed with the Arizona Diamondbacks for one year of the pirates organization.
Speaker 3I signed with the arizona diamondbacks for one year okay, and what happened there? Triple a the whole year and but I did going there more lessons the guy.
Speaker 1Yeah, I met up with the guy joel youngblood, geez yeah, it was a long time big leaguer, yeah, long time. Big leaguers played a number of positions. How to?
Speaker 3hit um. You know different drills, different things. It got me to feel some different things and um ended up then played the full year there in triple a, signed back with the tigers in 09 and then ended up getting up that year a little bit and then was with them from 09 through 14 do you assume, I'm sorry?
Speaker 1no, no, no, go ahead I was just gonna say do you assume that it was leland who brought you back he? He was your sponsor to come back to Detroit. You know what? Leland loves you type of players. He did, he loves you and Wainer, well, he's that type of player as a manager.
Speaker 2Like he's gritty.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, so he wants his gritty players, which I love.
Speaker 3The guy that called me to come back was Glenn Eazell. He was the minor league director. And was Glenn Eazell, he was the minor league director. And going back to your question about like opportunity and everything, like I was kind of hesitant at first because I didn't know what kind of opportunity I was going to get signing back over there. I wasn't sure and I really had never talked to Leland about going back that year until I had signed back. But I went back a different player and a different person too. You know I was more confident. I learned a lot going back into that situation and you know, playing in the playoffs yourself you learn it's different, it's different.
Speaker 3And when you go through baseball right in spring training you're competing to make a team right. You feel that coming down to the end you don't know what's going to happen. That matters big time. You're feeling that pressure, these things that you go through. Then you get your first big league at bat and you feel that pressure. Then you know somebody's coming off the DL or IL and you might get sent down. Somebody's got to get sent down and you start to feel that pressure. All these things add up that prepare you for you can't take them away.
Speaker 3You can't take it away and it prepares you for the pressure you're going to face in a pennant chase and in the playoffs. If you can't handle it in spring training and you can't handle it when there needs to be a move made, how are you going to be able to handle it whenever there's 45,000 people 57,000 at Dodger Stadium screaming and all the pressure is on?
Speaker 2When you signed back to Detroit, did you feel like you had something to prove or unfinished business A lot when I went back to Colorado. When they called, I turned down three big league deals and I went to Colorado.
Speaker 1Because you wanted to prove to them.
Speaker 2I think it was. Prove it to me, prove it to yourself.
Speaker 1That's really cool.
Speaker 2You know what I mean. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing when you were, you know, asking that question like is that kind of there, especially when you showed up. Because when I showed up I was like, yep, I made the right choice. My family thought it was nuts, let's turn it down like guaranteed money to go sign a minor league deal. Because I was like, nope, this is where I need to be and it was the best opportunity for me to to stick, possibly for multiple years. But I wanted to ask you that because you know we have some similarities when it comes to kind of bouncing all over the place and figuring it out as you go.
Coaching Through Success and Failure
Speaker 2Because yeah it had to feel good it did and it is.
Speaker 3It's like you, when, when you make that decision to go back and you know like I had failed the last time I was there was 06 and I played so bad and to go back into that situation, knowing that the last time I was here I was really, really bad. But I'm gonna prove it, I'm gonna prove it to myself and I'm gonna prove it to them. I can do this, I can play at this level.
Speaker 1Yeah, so cool. It really must make you appreciate players like you, then, and really appreciate how tough it is especially higher drafted players, but just about anybody when they get to the major leagues. We want success now.
Speaker 3And I don't think there's a better example of this than Jared Triolo this year.
Speaker 1Yeah, Congratulations. By the way, it's got to be a great feeling for you too, A gold-glover utility player. I mean, that's all, yeah, that's the work that you helped put in. I mean, it's his, but you've got to feel so great as a coach.
Speaker 3I feel great for him because when you look at his season, it was tough, it was really tough.
Speaker 2You could see it in his eyes.
Speaker 3Dude, like the way that he worked, the teammate that he was, the work that he put in Offensively. He starts off as the starting second baseman Struggles, doesn't hit real well, goes to the bench, stays ready every single day and he booted. I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong. I think it was the first ground ball that was hit to him this year and then he didn't make another error until I don't even know when, like July August.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was a long time.
Speaker 3It was a long time Bouncing around, bouncing around to different positions now and then to continue to work offensively, to come on strong the last 45 days of the year and get his average up, get everything up. I don't even know what he hit, maybe 750 ops those last 45 days the last 45 days he was better.
Speaker 2He was better than average. He's better than average you know, into how many guys do we see, because of his defense, makes him a glorified great player. Great player, yeah, you know. And how many guys do we see? Because of his defense, makes him a glorified great player.
Speaker 3Great player and how many guys do we see that play the game that when they're not hitting, they don't play defense and it goes down? They're just struggling and whatever he was, the same guy every day worked his butt off and for him to be rewarded with a gold glove at the end, it's just.
Speaker 2It won't be his last.
Speaker 3No, it was awesome.
Speaker 1So no doubt that your experience bouncing around at the major league level helps in a big way when you're coaching these players to do the same thing.
Speaker 2Can I speak on that real quick. You're invaluable to them. That's from them talking to me. You know like you're invaluable because you know Jack Wilson taught me this and I learned this at the USA event. I was his assistant coach and he said you'll be their favorite. And I didn't know what that really meant until this year when I got to manage for the 18U at trials and I and I had to discipline players, I had to get onto players and I wasn't the favorite and I watched my assistant coach kind of fill the gaps and that's the same thing to him that Jack said to me.
Speaker 2But there's some incredible connection you can have, especially with what you've been through with those guys and you can see it I get to watch it over at Sportsnet all the time when you're teaching them throughout the game and they have your trust but they're coming to you, you're not having to come to them. That's when you know greatness of a coach is there. When a guy's coming to you, it shows that man, not only does that guy respect you, he wants to know how can I do better? And I saw that all year this year. You know, with with guys and there was a lot of movement in the infield, you know, but it wasn't just the infield, this is multiple guys, even the older guys, coming to you, and that's just something I wanted to share for our fans, because that's not normal Browning and you know that like it takes a lot to earn their trust and once you do, you got to kind of hold onto it kind of very gently and allow them to do it, and you do a great job of that.
Speaker 3Well, I appreciate that. I think that you know, looking back on, when we talk about our playing career and the ups and downs and not just baseball, but life like we don't you don't learn a ton through success. You know you learn a ton through failure and things that maybe you didn't do real well. And now, being a parent trying to pass that on to my boys of, like, hey, when I try to coach you, when I try to discipline and teach and coach and do everything, it's because I care about you. Coach and do everything, it's because I care about you and I don't want you, if I can help you, not make the same mistakes that I did or you're going to.
Speaker 3But how can I help you through that? How can, how can I help your mindset? How can I help you stay? Try to stay level because, as you know, that roller coaster, the the players are going to be on, they're always going to be on it. So how do we stay level to try to keep them? Keep those dips and the peaks. Keep that down too, because you know the worst thing in this game is when you start to feel too good about yourself. And now you get up there because you know it's coming, it's going to happen. The next day.
Speaker 2Yeah, exactly exactly.
Speaker 1The problem is, I guess it's a problem, but there's extra pressure on players and the team in this town because they want instant success, because they want this team to win so badly. So again it's multiplied that pressure because fans don't want to. Oh, he's failing, but in the end he's going to be better for it. Well, they take the person out of it as in the end he's going to be better for it. Well, you know, they take the person out of it as a fan. They don't want to hear that. So there's that extra pressure, I think, on players.
Speaker 3And you know what it's it's. In my opinion, it's not just isolated to Pittsburgh, it's the big leagues you know, like it's the, and there should be you know like there should be. There should be pressure. I often get chills thinking about this. You guys remember Pedro Gomez, Of course, so I mean awful. What happened when he passed away? The?
Speaker 1ESPN. Espn baseball reporter Baseball reporter.
Speaker 3And so 2012,. We were playing the A's in the playoffs and Kerry and I went to Morton's across the street from the hotel just to grab like an appetizer or something. And we're just in there and Pedro Gomez is in there and he ends up coming over and talking and saying hi, and I'll never forget what he said. It was the first time I'd ever heard it, but he started. He was like hey, tomorrow, when you're out there, remember pressure is a privilege there, remember pressure is a privilege. Amen, and oh, like, what a nugget of you know we we put that pressure on ourselves and there should be.
Speaker 3In the big leagues. There's pressure to compete, there's pressure to succeed and produce and win and you're going to feel that. But it goes back to what we were talking about spring training first, at bat. You know you feel that pressure first time you get sent down. You want to be in the big leagues. How do you manage that? How do you continue to work through it, continue to calm yourself down so your heartbeat down, slow your mind down to be able to stay competitive and stay aggressive in those moments where and I know that you felt it and Brownie I'm sure even announcing when you first got.
Speaker 1Yeah, we talk about. Yeah, yeah, you still do it when, when the big games. You still do when the big games. You still feel it, you feel it. And no doubt, the minute I don't know if you felt this now as a broadcaster for it, but the minute you start feeling real good about what you just did on the air the night before the next day, it's a guarantee you're going to butcher the English language like you've never butchered it.
Speaker 1You're fumbling and bumbling, and that's why you've got to stay level-headed throughout, whether you're on the field or looking at the game or talking about the game.
Speaker 2But you can always learn from it, right? Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 1You always do. Speaking, though, of pressure, so you end up playing in the postseason four straight years with the Tigers 11, 12, 13, and 14. The 2012 World Series you play against the Giants. You helped the Tigers get, in both instances, to those big games 2011,. Well, I should ask you first, your single greatest moment? Is it the 2011 ALDS? Yes, game 5. At Yankee Stadium, leland bats you second and you're playing third base. I didn't go back and look at the other box scores. Was that unusual? Did you start every game that? No, you did not. I didn't.
Speaker 2I mean say some of your teammates.
Speaker 3On that team.
Speaker 2That team was really really good. Oh, it was really good.
Speaker 3Miguel Cabrera, victor Martinez, scherzer, verlander, porcello Pfister.
Speaker 2Fielder he wasn't there.
Speaker 1yet he wasn't there, oh, okay.
Speaker 3Because the next year is when Victor Torres ACL resigned Prince, so he came in 2012. 2011, yeah, alex Avila, brandon Inge Maglio Ordonez I mean come on, yeah, so him not in second, I mean that's aonez.
Speaker 2I mean come on, yeah, so he hit that in second. I mean that's a big deal, it's a great team.
Speaker 1When did you find out you'd be starting.
Speaker 3Really good question. So game four we were up 2-1. I played right field in game four and we ended up losing that game. And after that game I was in the elevator leaving with my dad and my father-in-law and gene lamont gets on the elevator and he asked he's the coach. He was our bench coach for the tigers. He asked my dad and my father-in-law are you guys going to new york for game five? And they're like no, we took time off work. We can't get off work to go up there. And he's like well, you might want to. He's playing third base, bat in second and my butt old as well wait a minute.
Speaker 1So that's what you found out. Yeah at the hotel, no at the ballpark.
Speaker 2Yeah his sandra is drea's fault.
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah, yeah so at the ballpark, on the elevator, lamont tells you and your, my dad, my dad your father-in-law that you're playing, and did they? I didn't sleep for two nights what a nonchalant way to tell me.
Speaker 3Yeah, we had that night and then the next night not playing. Well, we played that night, then we had a day off and then we played the following night at Yankee Stadium, game five, and it was.
Speaker 1So you're batting second one out first inning. Yvonne Nova, former Pirate pitcher. I think it's an oh one count if I'm not mistaken that sinker.
Speaker 3Oh, there's a little curveball oh, it was you got.
Speaker 1He went down and got it in and he crushed it. You, boogie, whipped it home run yeah, I get chills thinking how good did it feel, unbelievable, what's it feeling like you know what at yankee stadium game five people have asked me about that before.
Speaker 3I said you know what it was like, because nobody really knew who I am. They know Miggy and all the superstars on our team, but here I am about a second. I hit a home run.
Speaker 2But guys like you win those series. It never fails. It's crazy, isn't it?
Speaker 3Yeah, and so it was like being the new kid at school and walking, just popping them as hard as you can right in the nose.
Speaker 2You're just in the yard. Bam, take that big dog I love it being in Yankee Stadium.
Speaker 3and then Delman Young. We went back to bat Followed yeah, followed you in the home run.
Speaker 1And you went by one run that game 3-2 final. But thinking back to that at bat, can you take us through the whole thing? You're walking off to the plate. Yankee Stadium plays crazy. And You're walking off to the plate. Yankee Stadium plays crazy. You know and you talk about. You didn't sleep for two days, yeah. And what are you thinking when you get to that plate?
Speaker 3I don't even know, I blacked out.
Speaker 2Yeah, like you're just, I mean you couldn't have you said first inning Mm-hmm Right. Second batter of the game. I mean, look at those 68% sinkers.
Speaker 3He throws. Do you know what the rest of the game for me looked like? No, I struck out three times no yeah, nobody, no, like nobody talks about that because you get the home run right. Yeah, you know, and that like to me it's the dichotomy of basically like yeah, dude, wow, and whether you have the three strikeouts first and you still have that fourth at bat you still have an opportunity to do it, yep right and I hit the home run in the first.
Speaker 3I didn't mean to strike out the X3, but it was the home run that was the big hit and you never know in any game what pitch is going to be the game winner. Not saying that that home run was, but you always have an opportunity to do something to help the team win.
Speaker 1The Tigers go on to play the Rangers, I think then in the ALCS right, yeah. Can't pull that out in 11.
Speaker 1We lost in uh six games down there but then you get another chance and in game two of the alds 2012, you're playing oakland. Now, if that moment wasn't enough for you at yankee stadium to help win against the yankees, now game two of the alds. The tigers are up one game to none. You're're now in Detroit, at Comerica, against Oakland, and now you have a chance. You come to the plate to deliver the game winning and you do hit a fly ball to center field sacrifice fly.
Speaker 3What was that like? Well, you know, what I love thinking about for that moment is what happened before, because that year we signed Prince and I did not. I didn't have a good year. I hit 180, 180, I don't even know, 170 something during the regular season, got sent down to AAA. I got taken off the roster, sent to AAA in August and then got recalled in September back up to the big, put me back on the roster so that the ups and downs of baseball going down, getting that is loaded. I pinch ran for Delman Young, ended up scoring the tying run in the eighth inning and then, when ninth inning came around, I think Omar Infante was on first, Miguel Cabrera got a base hit and Omar went first to third. So Miggy's on first, omar's on third, prince Fielder's coming up with one out in the ninth inning. Are you going to pitch to Prince Fielder or are you going to pitch to me?
Speaker 1Well, I don't know. I'd have thought about it. I'd look at some of the numbers here. Well, Bob.
Speaker 3Melvin didn't think too long, he walked Prince right away. So like when you're going up to the plate in that moment and you talk about feeling it like feeling the pressure and feeling 45,000 people screaming yeah, a long time to think about it too, because they actually had to throw the four pitches then, yeah, they did, you're right, it's crazy. So going up there and being able to come through and not getting the winning run, I mean unbelievable.
Speaker 1And then you go on to play in the ALCS, this time against the Yankees, right, yeah, swept the Yankees right, mm-hmm, yeah, swept the Yankees.
Speaker 3What was that like?
Speaker 1Ooh, sweep the Yankees, and then you go to the World Series.
Speaker 3World Series yeah.
Speaker 1Do you remember being introduced on the foul line in a World Series game?
Speaker 3Yeah, San Francisco first and then at home. I mean, that's what you play for as a kid. Like're five, six years old and you're in the backyard dreaming of that. And I'll tell you what. I got into a game in san francisco and that ball was it hit a fly ball. To me that sucker was moving all over the place up there it was not a normal flying right yeah, right field man gosh and so that, and so a world series.
Speaker 1Now it didn't work out in terms of winning the world series, but just getting to the pinnacle and having that opportunity, as you say, that's what you dream about as a kid, that you play for and now as a coach for the Pirates, donnie and Michael and I talk about this all the time, and when we talk to fans who suggest and more than one person has done it that the Pirates' ownership people don't care about winning, I follow up right away and think do you know how much you want, as a fan, the team to win? Do you know how much I want, as an announcer, the team to win? Do you know how much guys like Donnie Kelly and the manager don't want? You don't think they want this team to win. That's why you're there.
Pirates' Team Development and Resilience
Speaker 3That's it that's the only reason and trying to. So when you talk about that stuff, how do you continue to get better, even through the ups and downs? Like, yeah, last year was tough, it was a really hard year and it was disappointing, I know, for the fans. It was disappointing for us. The only way that it's a complete failure is if we don't learn something from it to apply Like your whole career. Yeah, like next year when we're in it and we're fighting to do it. We have experience to draw on from last year. So forgive me for not knowing the exact timing of your career. What was the first year that you came? 11. 11. Dude, so you're there the whole time. 2011, pirates get to August. They get swept by somebody in San Diego at home and they were in it until August.
Speaker 2We got destroyed by San Diego at home, at home, and the wheels fell off, fell off.
Speaker 3They fell off August and September 2012,. Make it to September Wheels fall off, fall off. But it set the stage for 13, 13, 14 and 15 for the team to win. And so the way that I was looking at is like two years ago we got to june and went to milwaukee or chicago, milwaukee, chicago lost nine straight to those guys. It fell off in june. This year we skipped july, we got to august and faced that tough stretch. So next year we'll skip september and go to october.
Speaker 2Well, I mean, I think something we don't talk about about this year's team is how consistent you were almost through june. I don't think we lost three games in a row until sometime in july right, yeah how good. We just never rattled off that nine game winner right, but you know obviously august happened but off that nine game winner, right.
Speaker 2But you know, obviously august happened but like that's the thing is, like you're gonna learn from that and the team just keeps getting better. But going back to his point, you know, the mitch kellers of the world just don't happen. He failed and failed and failed. He didn't have the year he wanted. There's no doubt in my mind that man's gonna be back and better. You know, we're talking about paul skeens. He's ever. We're talking about jared jones, talking about, you know, the young bucks up and coming. But a guy like mitch keller could be the separator going in next year, because this guy will probably have an under four era and be a difference maker, because every time he's gone backwards he takes two steps forward and if you get a team like that which I feel like we are are, that's when it gets real special.
Speaker 3You're right and like I had, so we may get to this. I'm not sure. Yeah, we will, but after I was done playing, I got to scout. The coolest thing for me is I got to scout the Pirates, that's cool, not even knowing who were you scouting for.
Speaker 3I was with the Tigers, okay, the pirates. So now I got to see mitch keller in double a dominate like absolute dominate. And I'll never forget a game I played with michael ryan in indianapolis he was the manager of the altuna curve that year and we're they were in harrisburg. Mitch is pitching not having a great outing, but bases loaded two outs in the fourth inning and and Michael Ryan goes out to the mound and I thought he was going to take him out. He didn't. He left him in and bases loaded two outs.
Speaker 3He gets to a 3-2 count and I'll never forget the curveball he threw this guy to strike him out, and it was one of those moments that you're like wow, that guy's a dude right there, it's in there.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's, that's a guy you know.
Speaker 3And then I saw his last outing in double a that it was almost a no hitter. It just happened to be there. And then I saw his first outing in triple a that he got absolutely shelled and so like to your point, mitch keller has been through it he has he's gone through those ups and downs.
Speaker 3He's been. He gets to the big leagues it wasn't all you know, linear straight up, like. He's been through those ups and downs and there's no doubt that he has that metal to come back and and be stronger and be that guy for us. He's like yeah, his development has been unbelievable it's fun to watch, fun to watch him grow in the big leagues yeah, but that's, that's what it takes.
Speaker 2I mean betting on those guys, like talking about triolo and Keller and Reynolds, like nobody talks about 2020 with Reynolds. I know he's an outlier, but that guy always hit. There's no way that year didn't make him three times better because he didn't use COVID as an excuse. He was like why did I hit below 200? Like what happened? He went home, he went to the drawing board and got better. And if you create a team like that, which I think the pirates have done a great job of putting you know the right guys in the right place, you have leaders you know that are going to lead, people are going to follow, make it special, then, because that's what it was in 11, 12 and 13. You saw that coming to life. But there's a lot of people that were in and out, like matt diaz when he was here in 11, the impact he had on the bench players.
Don Kelly
Speaker 2When, when Jay Hayes coming up, I'm coming up and we're trying to figure out. Like, dude, I've played every day. I used to play 130 games a year. I'm playing every three to five days and then I played 25 games almost in a row. And then Doman comes back and I'm sitting on the bench and how to deal with that, but I have Matt Dye's arm around me, loving on me. Those are me loving on me. Those are the separators and that's what guys like donnie kelly as he got older guy comes up, you can see it, put your arm around him and you're seeing that on the bench this year and some of those guys won't be on the team this next year, but that effect resonates throughout you're right, no doubt about it.
Speaker 1It is so much fun to have the don with us, and our next episode we're going to hear about, uh, the pitcher, don kelly, the catcher, don Kelly A whole lot more to get to and some of our guests here on Hold my Cutter. Receive gift cards for David Allen clothing, featuring men's and women's custom suits and luxury casual wear. Located in Mount Lebanon, david Allen clothing will work with you to build a custom wardrobe that is truly one of a kind, from celebrity actors and athletes to the young professionals. David Allen here for you, don Kelly the Don here for us. Join us on our next podcast with Don Kelly on Hold my Cutter.
