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Hold My Cutter
From High School Star to Major League Dreams: Josh Wilson's Story
Dive into the engaging world of baseball with former MLB player Josh Wilson as he shares his fascinating career journey, from high school star to the professional leagues. We start at Burned by Rocky Patel, where the rich flavors of the Fat Bottom Betty cigars set the scene for a heartfelt conversation. Josh opens up about the joys of being a young athlete in Pittsburgh and reflects on the influence of his father, Michael Wilson, a significant figure in his development both as a player and as a person.
As he navigates through his experiences, Josh reveals the tough decision to pursue a professional career over college at LSU, detailing the emotional highs and lows that come with life in baseball. He shares encounters with other legendary players and the challenges that followed as he played for several MLB teams, including the Pittsburgh Pirates. Through candid stories and humor, Josh conveys valuable lessons about resilience, adaptability, and passion for the game.
Our discussion also touches on Josh's transition into scouting after retiring from playing, where he leverages his vast experience to identify up-and-coming talent in the league. For those looking to understand the intricate processes behind scouting, Josh provides unique insights into what it takes to evaluate players successfully.
Rich with anecdotes and insightful reflections, this episode is a must-listen for any baseball enthusiast or anyone interested in the life of a professional athlete. Join us for an unforgettable trip down memory lane and discover the powerful narratives that shape the world of baseball today! Don’t forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review!
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and welcome another episode of hold my cutter. We're coming your way here. Burned by rocky patel, right down the street from pnc park on the north shore, we're talking to another pittsburgh native. He's our guest. We're going to talk to him, uh, in just a moment. But first, uh, he and michael mckenry surprised us, of course, here at burned, at Burned by Rocky Patel, plenty of assortments of cigars, a lot of Rockies, a lot of Rocky Patels, but this one Fort you've gone with the Fat Bottom Betty, yeah go ahead and say it one more time.
Speaker 1:The Fat Bottom Betty. That could be a rap song. I really believe so, by Deadwood.
Speaker 2:Yeah by Deadwood, which we do not want. We by Deadwood, yeah by Deadwood, which we do not want. We want to have good, crisp, hard, firm wood that really explodes off the bat.
Speaker 1:Josh Wilson is the one. You and he got together back at the humidor and decided on this You're a long-time cigar smoker, Josh.
Speaker 3:Not a fan of Deadwood. This Deadwood you're okay with. Don't want the Deadwood. Looked like I was swinging Deadwood.
Speaker 1:Quite often I'm sure there's hits in those woods every now and then, hey man, that's right.
Speaker 3:Keep them in front of the outfielders with the Deadwood, let them fall in. But no, this cigar is great, it's perfect yeah.
Speaker 2:Fat bottom, it's got a little sweet taste A little sweetness on the wrapper there. I know you want to know yeah let's go, it's a slump buster.
Speaker 1:So anyway, we're here with.
Speaker 1:Josh Wilson, our guest, the Pittsburgh native who, lifetime baseball grinder, a lot of years in the big leagues 12 organizations, I believe, but nine major league teams, eight years in the big leagues. A former Mount Lebanon high school star. We had Don Kelly in one of our hold my cutter episodes talking to him about his career in high school out at Mount Lebanon and then Point Park College and then the big leagues. He said without a question, Josh Wilson was by far the best uh ball player he'd ever seen in high school. What do you remember about those days?
Speaker 3:well, I'll say this first donnie kelly. My first experience playing travel baseball uh, I was eight years old and donnie was nine, and so I played going way back and so playing with him, donnie was the best baseball player I'd ever seen.
Speaker 3:as an eight-year-old, donnienie was the best player in Little League and then it took him a while to finally blossom, but DK equally as good on the Little League diamond. But you know, yeah, I may have peaked in high school. Things went well for us back then. We had a lot of good players in Mount Lebanon, you know, and obviously a dad who was a coach was probably the biggest benefit to me as a young player. I got a lot more opportunity to work and get better in practice than most kids around here did. So that's probably.
Speaker 1:I have to give a lot of credit to my dad for my early success Of course, talk about Mike Wilson, legendary coach, uh, a lot of years at duquesne and just uh, one of the great baseball names in western pennsylvania. Uh, his dad, mike wilson, will talk uh throughout this episode with josh about his dad and his teammates and about being drafted out of mount levin. Now, you had a chance. I guess you were recruited by LSU, but I think I read something, josh, you said it was not even a question that you wanted to go to pro ball pretty much immediately, yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, I, uh, I wanted to go play pro ball Absolutely. Um. You know, signing with LSU was was always my dream. I had a cousin, uh, brad, that was uh uh, from Fox chapel that ended up going down to LSU, won two national titles down there.
Speaker 2:I didn't know that. Yeah, cousin, my cousin Brad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Brad won two national titles. He was kind of you know my idol as a player growing up what position he DH and played third base. So, Brad, in the year that they hit the walk-off Warren Morris, the walk-off home run, Brad had the ass-out double down, the third baseline. Wow it was the tying run in that game, brad Wilson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how sick is that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so two national titles at LSU looked up to him a ton. And you know, really that was my first dream was I thought I was going to go there and up until my senior year I did not think I was going to get drafted. I mean, I thought I was going to LSU. But you know, once things started taking shape as far as getting drafted, I wanted to go play. I didn't want to, I didn't need any more school, I was ready to just go play baseball and yeah, it was really a no-brainer for me.
Speaker 1:That's awesome Third rounder Marlins 1999. We've asked other ballplayers we've had on the show from Western Pennsylvania had they thought about the Pirates and you had to be thinking about that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know I don't want to knock the Pirates at all, but I thought I was going to get drafted by them. You know I had heard they'd said that if I was available in the second round they were probably going to take me. They ended up going with Ryan Doman instead. I think it worked out for him a little better. He had a nice career here with the Pirates but yeah, I thought I might end up a Pirate. It didn't work out that way. Ended up slipping to the third round with the Marlins but grew up a Pirate fan.
Speaker 3:You know, grew up in those early years in the 90s with, you know, bonds and Bonilla Van Slyke. I mean they were great teams. You know it's kind of funny that throughout my career I'd tell people I was from Pittsburgh and they'd ask if I was a Pirate fan. Growing up with kind of that look on your face like, oh man, the Pirates. But as a kid they were the best team in baseball. I mean they had star players. You have Barry Bonds, maybe the best player that this generation's ever seen, and so I love this generation's ever seen um, and so I love the pirates. Loved going to three river stadium um got down to one playoff game against the braves uh which one?
Speaker 3:not the bob walk game no, no, it was an early. It was a nlcs game. I think it was a game one or two. Um, you'd have to check me on that. I can't quite remember which year that was. I think that would have been 91. But yeah, one of those series against the Braves and yeah, a lot of great memories of waiting outside trying to get some autographs outside.
Speaker 1:Do you remember any moment, any autographs, in particular no.
Speaker 3:I just remember one time standing outside the clubhouse looking for guys, and Bonds came out wearing one of those like 80s, like Bill Cosby sweaters. Oh yeah, it wasn't the best look, I mean but it was the times back then.
Speaker 2:He let his play talk.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I don't think he quite fixed the wardrobe by that point, but no, I remember looking at Bonds trying to yell at him.
Speaker 1:He had this great big, big colorful sweater on and, uh, nope, drove off. Didn't know autographs that.
Speaker 3:No, no autographs that night you didn't catch it on good night uh I'm sure any other day.
Speaker 2:But just bad luck, yeah, bad luck that day. We'll get them tomorrow, yeah, uh so, but what were there?
Speaker 1:spots at the river stadium that you remember used to make sure you sat at, or all over, the place uh, you know, we, we just took whatever we could get.
Speaker 3:um, definitely, mostly we sat in the outfield. Quite often it seemed like we were always above the visitors' bullpen out there and I can remember yelling down at some Mets bullpen guys trying to get them to throw some balls up. You know some friends of mine you know screaming at guys and you know, see if we could get a ball, which didn't work out well for us either, but yeah, just that old ballpark and you could run around the whole place just doing laps around there. So, yeah, I used to run around and you know, try to sit wherever. Hope the ushers didn't kick you out when you tried to venture too close to the you know dugouts or get closer to the field, you know.
Speaker 1:So you never had a chance to play at Three Rivers. You did at PNC Park. Do you remember your first game there?
Speaker 3:I do. I think I only got to. I may have gotten into a couple games. I think I only started one game there and I think I punched out three times Of course that's okay.
Speaker 1:Unliverable, nothing else.
Speaker 3:Did not go too well. Yes, that's about par for the course for me, but, yeah, that was one of the coolest experiences of my life getting a chance to come back and get an opportunity to play at PNC. I mean, there's no better setting for baseball in our game as far as I'm concerned. And getting to be there and play against Neil Walker, getting to talk to him and, you know, see him on the field and, you know, have my family and friends in the stands, was pretty spectacular.
Speaker 1:Josh Wilson, who's finished up some time in scouting with the Detroit Tigers, spent some time on the TV side of Pirates pre and post-game show.
Speaker 2:I want to go back to the draft process. Right? So you're a junior, you're thinking you're going all-in to LSU. What was the moment that shifted your mind that this is real, I could be a higher draft pick than I wanted? Was there also a round? And what were some of the other teams? Because, same as you, I think we've heard a lot of stories where guys think they're going to get drafted by a certain team and they don't kind of talk about that. You know that process of when you decided, yeah, this is real, and then that week up to I think is the craziest time yeah, absolutely so.
Speaker 3:Uh, I had gotten selected to play for, uh, the junior national team um heading into my senior year of high school, um, and unfortunately there was there was an we were supposed to go play in the fall down in Bogota, colombia, but there was a big event down there some terrorist stuff and so that got canceled. It got pushed to the spring. Yeah, it was pretty bad. It was like a busload of nuns got blown up.
Speaker 2:It was an awful thing.
Speaker 3:Holy cow.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was pretty terrible, blown out. It was an awful thing, yeah, it was pretty terrible. Um. So, but that was kind of when I started to know is when I'd gotten selected for team USA. Um, and I ended up in the spring time and I missed some of my high school season to go play, uh, in the Pan American games, which got switched to, uh, caracas, venezuela.
Speaker 3:Um, and when I went down for those uh like the workouts, um, you know the baseball America stuff, it started coming out. I don't know exactly the timing, but you know they had listed me in the top 30 players heading into the draft. Um, and I had heard from, you know, a couple teams. Baltimore and San Diego in particular had a ton of early picks that year. I think San Diego had like seven first round picks with the supplemental rounds and everything, and Baltimore had like six. And I thought, for sure I was going to one of those two teams teams.
Speaker 3:I'd made the decision before the draft to attend the Pirates pre-draft workout here in Pittsburgh rather than go down to Baltimore. I think they were holding theirs on the same day, so I don't know if that affected my draft status going in, but it was really that spring and playing for Team USA and kind of having a good tournament there, that you know, I really started to understand that there was a good chance I was going to get drafted, get drafted pretty high. And as soon as I knew that, as soon as I knew that there was an opportunity to get in a spot where I could get a little bit of a signing bonus and kind of set myself on a good path, you know as a young kid that that's what I wanted to do. Nice, did you medal on a good path? As a young kid, that that's what I wanted to do Nice Did you medal.
Speaker 3:We did, we took the bronze there, so we qualified.
Speaker 2:They just bronze in the I think they call it the Premier 12, now minor league side.
Speaker 3:So I've always tried to go back and figure out who some of the players were on those teams. It's funny. So when I signed, miguel Cabrera had signed shortly after, as a 16-year-old, so I didn't get to play with him that first year, but Miguel told me that he was in the stands, that he went to those games, was watching. So I know Miguel was there, at least saw a couple of those games in Caracas. But the Cuban team we lost to cuba twice. So we lost to cuba in the uh like round robin round and then uh, and then again in the in the uh uh metal round, I believe.
Speaker 2:okay, um what a cool experience though. Huh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah it was.
Speaker 3:It was awesome. It was really really cool. Uh, a lot of really good players from around the country. Um, you know, it was a little. It was a little interesting because of the timing, since they'd had to push it to the spring. A lot a little interesting because of the timing, since they'd had to push it to the spring. A lot of the better players decided not to go. So Josh Beckett and Josh Hamilton and some of the really high picks from that year decided to stay home and just play their high school season. So we still had a great team, but there were some guys that ended up having really really good careers that were supposed to go play in the fall, that ended up not going in the spring. So we still did all right, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You became pretty good buddies with Miguel Cabrera, didn't you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Miguel and I spent I mean basically, yeah, our first, I don't know three, four seasons, like I said. So Miguel, you know, was still too young to come play on the Gulf Coast League team. He was there and he worked out with us and then we got to play together in the Instructional League that year. The following year we ended up being in extended spring training and then he played in the Gulf Coast League and eventually came to utica at the end of the year, played together there and then the following uh, three seasons in cane county and lowe, florida state league and jupiter, and then started the year together in carolina, uh, in double a, and he didn't last there very long. That was year he got called up and it is uh, walk off home run in his first game. Could you see it, you know, you saw a ton of bat speed, really talented guy.
Speaker 3:Miguel was one of these guys that doesn't probably get a whole lot of credit for just how athletic he is. He could do things that were just, you know, spur of the moment. He was the guy that he'd take infield, you know, and he'd just goof around, he'd close his eyes and throw balls to first base and hit the guy in the chest, you know he'd do no-look stuff. He could, you know, throw the ball through his legs. He could do all these things as a young player. He just had such control of his body, such awareness on the field, you know, and then you get to be as big and strong as he is with that kind of body control and obviously see what happens with him. But yeah, you could definitely see that there was. There were some things that he just did on a field that were just different from everybody else, from an early age for sure. Well, I remember you.
Speaker 1:For a long time he was wearing Duke Cane, duke basketball T-shirts, come on, or baseball T-shirts, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Anything, duke Cane Dukeke, you gave a bunch of duke swag. So so my dad, every time he came to town as soon as the college season was over and my dad throws the best bp. I if you won't find anybody that's ever taken bp off them that would disagree with that. Um and so as soon as the season his season was done at duke kane uh, you know he he'd make a trip, come out and he'd be begging to throw BP on the field, and usually our coaching staffs were pretty nice and they'd let him throw, but he'd always bring a dozen Duquesne shirts and hand them out to all my teammates. That's great.
Speaker 3:You know, maybe I'm making this up, but I think the first time Miguel got one, he put it on, took BP with it, or maybe he wore it under his jersey but had a good game and I think the rest was history. I think he got some hits or maybe hit a home or whatever it was. That's all it takes, that's all it took. And then he never took that thing off for a long time. He was wearing it Like forever.
Speaker 1:Forever. Yeah, he always wore it. You got your call-up September of 2005. Got your call up, uh, september of 2005. I think you made your debut september 7th 05. Uh, we love these stories of how you get told and did you know like three, four, five days ahead of time, and how I knew, I knew a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my AAA manager, dean Trainor. Dean Trainor.
Speaker 1:Yeah, dino, one of the most, and I'm doing some pirate stuff yeah, Dino probably First psychopath ever really met.
Speaker 2:The psychopath.
Speaker 1:Dean Trainor.
Speaker 3:I mean definitely he has to lead the Arizona Fall League in ejections for sure. I think he got ejected, which has got to be hard to do.
Speaker 2:It's got to be hard to do, but he got ejected. It's got to be hard to do.
Speaker 1:It's got to be hard to do.
Speaker 3:But he got ejected. I think like three times the one year I played for him out there and I think they told him if he got ejected again, they were sending him home.
Speaker 1:Oh, what a beat.
Speaker 3:But yeah, that's Dino, Probably my favorite guy I've ever played for and we had a great relationship. He was a player's guy took care of all his players, defended all his players to no end.
Speaker 2:Probably did it to Mize at times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean. Well, you have to wonder about what happens to a guy like that, because he was such a.
Speaker 2:I've never heard a bad thing about a player.
Speaker 1:All the players loved him. How is he not in somewhere? I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 3:Absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure there are probably plenty of people that you know kind of from the PD side and player development that just you know maybe didn't appreciate the way he was about things, but 100% the players all did for sure.
Speaker 3:He always had your back and you knew what you were going to get with him. Every day treated you with respect. All he asked was when you got to the field you showed up, you did your work and you played hard. But you know he wanted you to out and have a good time too, and you know he was certainly. I know he'd get out and have a good time himself. So yeah, dino, absolutely one of the best. But so he told me, I mean I feel like it might have been like it was like the homestand or a couple of homestands before the end of the season. I mean, I knew.
Speaker 1:I knew more than a week before I was going to the big. Just keep it quiet. I don't know if that's good or bad.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was, I think it was bad. I had a lot of time to think about that first.
Speaker 1:That's a lot of thinking you had to tell some people.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, I mean all my teammates knew. I mean they knew Dino. Just he told me he wanted to be the first to tell me he didn't want somebody else. He wanted to be the one to let me know and uh, so yeah, I told you know. They all knew I was going um, so it was good for them too, because they got to prepare and, uh, you know, set up, you know, get, get their trips in order um which now they do for them, which is incredible.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is great, which is great, um, but yeah. So I think there was a little little added pressure because I kind of knew a little too early and was thinking about it a lot. You're talking about weeks. First big league experience wasn't great.
Speaker 1:That's crazy. Okay, so what about in the minors? Now you're a big leaguer in your mind. Now you're like what am I doing this for? I know I'm going to the big leagues in a week. That's got to be hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah it was hard and you know I I was kind of scuffling towards the end of that triple a season. I was always kind of a streaky guy, were you in new orleans? Uh, it was albuquerque, so it was yeah, yeah, still in albuquerque, yeah, maybe the best place to hit in baseball, um great on the moon hitting on the moon, and we had the best groundskeeper there. His name was, uh, jared alley it's an immaculate ballparkaculate, and he cut the grass short too, so the infield grass was lightning fast.
Speaker 1:It was a fast infield and the ball actually flew.
Speaker 2:Pitchers absolutely hated that guy Drive guy.
Speaker 3:I thought I could hit homers hitting in Albuquerque and I think I got a little happy at the end of the year and I was scuffling, I was scuffling, I was scuffling bad. I had like 17 homers and I wanted 20 real bad and it didn't work out. It didn't work out for me and so I had a lot of time to think about that first at bat and was heading into the big leagues with limited confidence.
Speaker 1:Oh man, so that debut is September 7, 2005, and, I think against the Washington Nationals. You pinch hit in the seventh inning pop up and your first bench. By the way, we're going to get into this. The list of managers for whom you played is like an all-star list. The first one is Jack McKeon Trader.
Speaker 3:Jack, trader Jack. Yeah, jack was. You know Jack was. I don't want to be mean to Jack because he had a heck of a run, but definitely Jack was maybe a little past his prime at that point.
Speaker 1:But the definition of old school, yeah, very, very old school, 50s 1950s.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so it was a brief time with Jack, but you know I will say that. So that year was great. I had a. You know it was tough because I was not playing well that first time in the big leagues. But you know my first spring training the following year when I got sent down he called me John.
Speaker 1:So you know I'm not going to be too hard on him.
Speaker 3:He's close, you know. But I mean geez Jack put a lot into this game. I mean, you know a phenomenal career he had.
Speaker 1:And yeah, really cool to play for a guy like him for my first experience. But how about your first hit that year? I think it was October 2nd against the Bulls.
Speaker 2:Do you remember your first at-bat and who it was against?
Speaker 3:Yeah, hector Carrasco, I think, was the right name there. Yeah, I popped up. Like I said, brian, I popped up to right field. It came off the bat. I thought it was a foul ball. I didn't run. I almost had one of those where the ball ended up fair and I'm standing at home plate but I fouled it off to the right side and I thought it was going back in the seats and I'm looking around I can't find the ball. And I look down and I see carlos by erica's playing second base and he's hanging out on the first baseline or just just down the first baseline about to make a catch. So I start running and thank goodness he caught it and he didn't like drop it and throw me out. At first that would have been a total disaster, but um, yeah, that was it really.
Speaker 1:Jack would not like that, jack mckeon would not like that. The rookie not? No, not running out that first one. What are you doing, chad? If he was watching, he probably would be smoking a stogie in the dugout.
Speaker 3:He liked the stogies? He definitely did. You never saw him without one most of the time. During the game was probably the only time you didn't see him without his cigar.
Speaker 2:That's just because they wouldn't let him.
Speaker 1:But how about, hey, fort, you'll like Wilson's first hit, though okay, against Atlanta bottom of the 10th, a double off Kyle Davies, he scores. The winning run on a hit by Juan Pierre. Is that we got that right, that's exactly right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, yeah, kyle Davies, uh, I think I'd faced him in the minor leagues a couple times so it was like the first at bat I had up there where I knew the guy and it was like kind of gave me a little bit of uh of of comfortability, um, but I, I think I was down 0-2. I can't remember what I bowed. I think I got him back to 2-2 or maybe 3-2. I got a breaking ball down in the zone and managed to get it just enough. Missed the walk-off homer by just a couple feet off the left field ball.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it felt good, didn't it Felt really good Would have felt better if I had walked off the season.
Speaker 3:It would have felt great, but I mean just to get that first hit and be able to go in the offseason with without all those zeros, yeah.
Speaker 2:I went into the offseason with all those zeros. I know what it feels like. Oh man those days turned into long days, I turned to walk in. That's the only positive I had.
Speaker 3:But I also so that game too. I got on base for the first time in the big leagues when I got into that game and it was 99 off the back from Kyle Farnsworth.
Speaker 2:And you're not going to charge him out. I'm not going to let Kyle do his thing out there. Have you seen him lately, by the way?
Speaker 3:I've seen some of those posts he's made. He's still absolutely jacked it's like Clark Kent.
Speaker 2:I mean insane. Yeah, he's still got the glasses on. Oh yeah, it's like Clark Kent. Clark Kent, he does think he's Clark Kent.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you go to the offseason after that, and then you're traded right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I get traded that offseason. So I'll say this too Never got the ball from that first hit. No, never got it. To our camera guy down there he said I'll take it, we'll do the frame, we do all the stuff. Do you know the camera guy's name? I don't, I don't remember.
Speaker 2:Shame on you camera guy.
Speaker 3:Lost the first hit in the big leagues. Never got it that offseason I ended up getting traded to the Rockies.
Speaker 1:Tell us what that's like. You get the call. Who calls you? Somebody from, obviously the Marlins system. Or it could have been Rockies.
Speaker 3:I can't remember I think the first call I got was from the Rockies. I'm not sure if this was in the offseason of 2005. I think it was in December. It was just before Christmas, maybe early December or something in 2005. I can't remember if Mike Hill or somebody from the Marlins called to give me a heads up. I think he probably did, and then I got in touch with somebody from the Rockies maybe it was Bill Guyvette.
Speaker 1:I think it was.
Speaker 3:Bill Guyvette, who initially reached out to me so I think I got the call from him and it was welcome to the Rock rockies. I was a young player with just a september call up and I was out of options, so it was kind of a difficult spot for a young player having to to make a team. But I went into camp that year with the rockies and ended up breaking my toe in spring training. Uh.
Speaker 1:How early, josh, this was, and were you having a good spring at the time? If it wasn't early, you're feeling good about it.
Speaker 3:I think it was probably right in the middle of camp. I think it was, maybe in that second week of March. Okay, yeah, I fouled a ball off my toe, broke a little piece of that knuckle clean off. I mean there was a break just right the the middle knuckle on my big toe. Um ended up staying in that bat and hit a double.
Speaker 1:No, yeah, yeah, that's it. That's a yinzer right there.
Speaker 3:Try to tough it out. Um, yeah, I, I show up to camp the next day. I told the trainer I was like hey, my foot's really killing me if I'm kind of limping around a little bit. I just want to let you know like it's, you know, but I'm just going to go and try to work through it. And he's like, why don't we get you some x-rays? And sure enough, found out that there was a break. So I ended up getting 60-day uh out of spring training and um, uh, go to my rehab assignment in in colorado springs and uh in june Another great place to hit.
Speaker 2:Another great place, but a weird place. I played in all the best ones. What makes it weird? Why is it weird? Because the wind, it is a good place to hit, but weird things happen. It's just a weird place because of the weather.
Speaker 3:Well, so their groundskeeper there, too, used to keep the grass extremely long, really long oh. And he watered the grass before every game, so it was drenched.
Speaker 2:So it could be 90 and up. Everything opposite of Albert Carr, yeah, total opposite.
Speaker 3:I mean, guys would throw balls away on the infield there because he absolutely just drenched the grass and you'd get a ball of shortstop, and it was soaking wet.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, you score early. Yeah, I mean it was nuts. That's crazy it shouldn't have been a. I love playing there, but it shouldn't have been a AAA field. The way it was taken care of, no, it wasn't great.
Speaker 3:They had just built the new clubhouse there and it was fantastic. We had a great group of guys there Ryan Spielborg, so I'm sure you know what he's doing. Yeah, he's got a.
Speaker 2:He took care of me as a rookie. Well, he hazed the crap out of me and then took care of me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Spilly was one of my roommates there in Colorado Springs. Man, we had a great time.
Speaker 2:You guys probably had a great team that year, because that's when all those big times, there were some good guys.
Speaker 3:Ryan Shealy, Jeff Salazar, Sean Barker yeah, there's a bunch of good players that made it to the big leagues. That year Ubaldo Jimenez came up and was there. Ubaldo was the only guy that could have a fastball range from like 89 to 104. Yeah, it was nuts I mean just one pitch after the next man. Jd Kloster was our catcher. I mean he'd put down fastballs and one would be 89, the next one would be like 102. And that never, changed.
Speaker 1:It was nuts. Who is this?
Speaker 3:JD Klosser. Jd Klosser was our catcher. That's hilarious. Yeah, one of our catchers. Yeah, we had a great group of guys there. It was a lot of fun that year.
Speaker 1:So this your odyssey. It is a baseball odyssey. I mean we mentioned he's a baseball grinder, josh Wilson because again you get the trade and then now you become a free agent. You sign with Washington now, this offseason.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you were with the Rockies for a year.
Speaker 3:With the Rockies just for a year. I had a good year in Colorado Springs but unfortunately there was a guy named Troy Tulewitzki who was in AA.
Speaker 1:Tulo got the late August or September call-up that year he had a huge, huge September 2.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Tulo was on his way. So, yeah, they didn't have much use for me anymore. Understandable, I guess. But yeah, so I had cleared waivers earlier in the season when I finished my rehab assignment I was dfa'd and cleared and stayed there, uh, so then I signed uh, I signed a deal though, with the nationals. Uh, that off season, um, yeah, I went to camp with them and made the team for the first time, uh, and it was another one. I was not a good player there. I was probably the worst player in the league that year. Uh, I started out, I think think 0 for 19 there with Washington. I probably only played in I don't know less than 10 games, one start and I was leading the National League in errors.
Speaker 1:No, come on.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it weren't all my fault. One of them. I'm like diving in the hole and I get up and you know.
Speaker 1:No chance to throw the guy out, no chance to throw the guy hole and I get up and you know, no chance to throw the guy out, no chance to throw the guy out and I short-hopped him.
Speaker 3:No other runners advanced, so the guy just got first base. But I get an error. I got an error for that play on a ball. I had to dive in the hole for. This was at home in Washington, so you know Looking out for the pitcher Pretty tough, but I was absolutely terrified of being in the big leagues. It was completely nerve-wracking. I'd go home and try to put on baseball tonight or sports center, and even just watching baseball made me sick to my stomach.
Speaker 2:How long did that last?
Speaker 3:It lasted until I got DFA'd again by Washington in early May and claimed by Tampa and it was one of the first series in Tampa. I get. I get there and Joe Madden calls me into his office. He says you know, welcome to the club. You know we got a road trip coming up to Toronto. I don't know if I'm going to get you in tomorrow, but I think you know one of the next two days I'm going to get you in tomorrow, but I think one of the next two days I'm going to get you in there. So I get in there and I'm playing third base and AJ Burnett is on that club in Toronto that year and AJ one of the best teammates you could ever have. Even as a young player going back to the Marlins, my first couple camps, aj was the guy that was ready to pump you up, make you feel like you belonged, and you know it's one of the few guys that would go out of his way to do that isn't that interesting.
Speaker 1:It's just exact opposite of what if you're looking from the outside. Look, you're not aware of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, best teammates one of the best teammates ever, um, and he did that for me when I was a young kid in camp. The marlins told me know I could play shortstop behind him anytime. And so here I am now starting third base in a game in Toronto for the Devil Rays and Brian Butterfield is their third base coach. And Butters asked me he's like how you doing, man? And I'm like you know, honestly, god was the first time I ever admitted that I was terrified. You know, usually I, you know most guys, you know you're doing okay and you try to. You know act tough and confident. And I just flat out told him I was like I'm scared.
Speaker 2:Did that not feel good, though, just to get that off your chest.
Speaker 1:Well, and what made you do it? At that point said you wouldn't be normal if you weren't.
Speaker 3:He's like, believe me, so many guys out here feel the same thing you and it was kind of the first time that I ever kind of exhaled. And here it is. It's the opposing team's third base coach. And the only reason he talked to me was because AJ told him that we'd played together with the Marlins in spring training and stuff and AJ told him to go out and say hi to me and it really turned around my career, isn't that amazing?
Speaker 1:Closing third base coach. So just the fact that you said I'm terrified and he says it wouldn't be normal if you weren't that kind of started your career.
Speaker 3:It just made me realize that I wasn't alone, that uncomfortability is a normal thing in the big leagues. I mean, you're out there playing in front of people, you're trying to perform for your teammates Highest level.
Speaker 3:At the highest level against the best players in the world, and it's hard, and it's really, really hard, and when you're making errors or you think you're not playing well, I mean it that can snowball on you real fast and it definitely had gotten to that point with me. Um, and then the next thing, you know, the devil rays are playing one of these series in Orlando cause they're trying to build a fan base down there. You know, not too many people went to the games in in St Pete, uh, so I get this series in Orlando where I had just played the you know the year, couple years before in AA, they were a AA club and so we do this series in Orlando and it's like, wow, this felt like home. I mean, it felt like home to me. I'm back, I'm in a AA ballpark. You know I have this kind of, you know, tiny glimmer of confidence and we're playing the Rangers there.
Speaker 3:Uh, I get a couple more starts and had a couple of good games, um, and next thing, you know, I ended up, I don't know, playing close to a hundred games for for Tampa that year and I did okay for most of the year. I ended up kind of hitting the wall towards the end of the year again, but, um, I played okay there. Uh, played a bunch of shortstop and second base. Uh, um, it was the first time I ever felt like I I might actually belong there and felt like I could, you know, have a career at the major league level by the way, these are these exhibition games in orlando, or no, these were major, regular season, these were regular major league yeah, regular season major league games in orlando yeah, against the texas rangers, yeah, so that that that year you also pitched for the first time.
Speaker 2:It's one of the best Texas Ranger teams we've seen in the last year.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's true too.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, they were monstrous, doing very good. Yeah, they had some good clubs there. Yeah, end up pitching against the Marlins. Managed to get out of it with a zero. Somehow I got my good buddy and former roommate, josh Willingham, to break a bat and ground out.
Speaker 2:How good did that feel I think he got a base hit.
Speaker 3:actually, if I remember he broke his bat. I broke his bat, but he got a base hit.
Speaker 2:But I think that's a win-win for you. You get your buddy a hit, you break his bat. It's a win-win. You get your buddy a hit, you break his bat, so it's funny.
Speaker 3:So since I never got my first hit framed in the big leagues, I got my first broken bat framed in the big leagues. So I got the shadow box of my first pitching experience with.
Speaker 2:Hammer's broken bat all framed up. I love it. Did you get him to sign it? Yeah, he signed it.
Speaker 3:It says thanks for laying it in there for me oh, that's great.
Speaker 1:Was there a story behind the pitching that you were getting ready for it by you?
Speaker 3:Well, you know. So you know we were getting beat. We were getting beat pretty bad. It was heading into the eighth inning. We're on the road in Florida against the Marlins. Joe comes down.
Speaker 2:Of course it's your former team. Yeah, against the.
Speaker 3:Marlins, joe comes down. Of course it's your former team. Yeah, of course it is, it has to be. So I got a bunch of friends over there, yeah, and Joe Madden just walks down to the end of the dugout and he says, you know, hey, willie, hey, when's the last time you pitched? And I'm pretty sure I could have told him. I'm pretty sure it didn't matter what I told him I was going in, as long as I told him you know little league, as long as I told him I'd pitched ever. He was putting me in. But I, you know, I told him I pitched in high school or whatever. So he said, okay, uh, you're, you know, you're pinch hitting. I think the pitcher was up. Uh, you know, second or whatever in the, in the bottom of the eighth. So, yeah, that was it.
Speaker 3:I went out there, raul Casanova was our catcher. He comes out and he says, hey, poppy, all fastballs. I was like you're the boss. So I just chucked him in there, tried to light up the radar gun a couple times. I think I hit 88 that day, chucked one over Jason Woods' woods head, who was another former teammate, uh, but I think I got hanley ramirez to pop up and get it out and I think the round out the inning was uh, dan ugla hit an absolute missile, lined out the third base. That's great yeah some good names.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, well you know you talk about pitching in high school. I just saw, in 2023, david shields uh broke the single season strikeout record for mount lebanon set by josh wilson, so wow yeah, no surprise.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I had david at usa. Oh, did you?
Speaker 3:yeah, wow, yeah, it's good picture good picture, great kid, great family, um yeah, really happy for him.
Speaker 2:Somebody cools record though yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And now the the highest drafted player out of, uh out of, you know, high school at mal, lebanon.
Speaker 3:So yeah really proud of him. It's great, um. They built a great, great program there. My high school coach, ed mccloskey, was, I mean, one of the best in in the state, um, you know, if not in the whole country. I mean he's just, he really knows his stuff and now his son, patrick's running that program. He's done a great job. I mean he develops players and they've got a great facility to work out in. And yeah, david's the latest fruits of all that labor.
Speaker 1:And we talked to Donnie, who also played for him, and now that, while that, he's kind of helping his son Patrick as an assistant. So after that year and, by the way, we were talking about the guys for whom you played in the big leagues so you've got what Maniakta with the Nats, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:Maniakta with the Nats, that was with Washington. Yeah, made the team that year under him.
Speaker 1:Okay, now we go to Madden, so we can go through yeah, who was in Colorado?
Speaker 3:Clint Hurdle was in the big leagues, but I played for Tom Runnels in AAA.
Speaker 1:Tom Runnels, another name.
Speaker 2:That's my pitch coach. Yeah, I just saw him this year. He came to a game. Yeah, said hello.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and then moving along. I ended up so in 2008,. After I'd finished that year with the Devil Rays, I got DFA'd and claimed by the Pirates.
Speaker 1:All right, here we are now.
Speaker 3:We go to Indy, I go to Indy. That's a funny one too. When I got claimed, nobody from the Devil Rays called me. I got a call from Neil Huntington. Wait what? Yeah, didn't hear. I didn't know I was DFA'd. I didn't know I was on waivers.
Speaker 2:I had zero information. Did that ever happen again?
Speaker 3:No, I usually always got a heads up um because?
Speaker 1:that was the last time, I think that happened in the off season but, yeah, so respecting, yeah, so terrible.
Speaker 3:So neil huntington calls me, though in like december, and he just goes. Hey, josh, it's neil huntington with the pirates. We just claimed you on waivers and I I laughed I thought it was a joke I literally thought somebody was messing with me. I didn't believe it's mike burger. I'm like, I'm like right, and so I probably got off to a pretty bad start with the Pirates. Because, you know, I think I said like yeah, right, or whatever, to Neil when he told me I got.
Speaker 1:No, this really is Neil Huntington.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he said really is. No, we really did claim you. You're a Pirate now. So, yeah, I'm sure I said my apologies and, yeah, I went to camp there. It was John Russell and Neil's first year with the.
Speaker 1:Pirates. Your reaction, though when things finally do, you realize it is legit and now you have a chance to play for your hometown team.
Speaker 3:I thought it was all coming together. I mean, I really did. You know, I was so excited to be a part of the organization that I grew up watching you know and loved to be quite honest. You know, watching you know and loved to be quite honest.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, I mean, any Pittsburgh, or I mean, we've got uh we've got a level of pride, you know, unlike most places.
Speaker 3:Uh, and it was no different with me. I mean, I was. I was just so happy to be a part of the pirates and wanted nothing more than to, you know, put that uniform on and play PNC park and and be a player that helped the pirates. You know, get back to some winning ways.
Speaker 1:You got to tell us what Huntington said, or whoever talked to you eventually about what your opportunity was then going into spring training.
Speaker 3:You know I, my opportunity, I think was the same as it ever was was just to compete for a job. You know, I don't know if it was the best situation for me. We went in there and had some other veteran guys that I think they just wanted to have around. You know, again, as a guy, that I was still kind of a young player, not a lot of experience and we had Luis Rivas, who had had come from the twins, where JR was um, doug Mankiewicz, also um, and Chris Gomez, so we had Dougie, yeah, so we had three guys that were, uh, you know, veteran presence guys that I think you know they preferred Um, and then Brian Bixler was, uh, was there in Indianapolis as well, who's kind of their younger player that was going to be the next guy for them as far as their plans were concerned.
Speaker 3:So I had a decent opportunity there. I didn't play particularly well, I swung it okay in Indy, but the opportunity just never panned out, just never really materialized, and they had those veteran guys that they preferred. And so a little disappointing for me that I never got to put that uniform on, but you know, nevertheless you get to play with some of the guys I got to be there.
Speaker 3:I did get to go to camp with them, you know, just getting to be a part of the organization. You know, looking back I mean that's special. It's still special that I did get to be a part of that organization.
Speaker 1:for a time. Who were some of the guys? Did you play with Kutch?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so Kutch and Neil were both on the Indianapolis team. Yeah, steve Pierce, john Van Ben Skoten. Yeah, there were some good players there. Obviously Neil and Kutch and Steve.
Speaker 2:Did you run into Donnie then?
Speaker 3:So Donnie and I kind of kept flip-flopping. Dk had spent the previous year with the Pirates.
Speaker 1:Donnie Kelly yeah, we talked.
Speaker 3:He was with the Diamondbacks that year and spent that year in Tucson and then I ended up with the Diamondbacks the following season, so I was kind of following him around a little bit. Tucson yeah, oh boy him around a little bit.
Speaker 2:Tucson yeah, oh boy, what a place. That was my first four spring trainings. Oh geez, man, all right, now what you?
Speaker 1:guys have talked about Colorado Springs, Albuquerque, and now tell us about Tucson. Oh boy, they had to spray paint.
Speaker 2:Tell me that grounds crew guy.
Speaker 1:What was he like? Well, if they were public works.
Speaker 2:Speaking of this perfect timing, oh, and it gave it way too much In that ballpark.
Speaker 1:I didn't know that. At High Corbett, yeah, a lot of those teams were at High Corbett.
Speaker 3:Yeah, 100%. That's right. But we played all those games at Tucson Electric and the grounds crew there was Public Works.
Speaker 2:They were publicly owned.
Speaker 3:So they just had two guys that were on the Public Works crew.
Speaker 1:Whatever they get to it, they public works crew.
Speaker 3:They'd pour the sand you put on a golf course to fill the divots. They'd just pour that green sand on the field. That was the infield mess.
Speaker 1:It was a mess Total mess. Good for an infielder to learn.
Speaker 2:Bill's character Playing in a blow dryer is what they always said Exactly right, awful, exactly right.
Speaker 1:So how about? I did not know. So, really, Neil Huntington's first trade. His first trade was in August of that year, in 2008,. The big blockbuster he trades Jason Bay to Boston, Mareny Ramirez part of a three-team deal. He goes to the Dodgers, A bunch of other players. The Pirates get Andy LaRoche, Brian Morris, Brandon Moss, Craig Hansen I didn't know, you're part of that trade.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I was the player to be named later. How about that? Yeah, at the end of that deal, which I didn't even know for another year or two, I didn't realize that it was a part of that deal. I found that out kind of after the fact. Uh, yeah, so you know, we did, did okay in indy there, uh, and just didn't get a chance with the buckos. But, uh, yeah, ended up making a playoff push with the, the pawtucket red socks. Um, didn't play particularly well there, you know, probably had a chance to get called up with them, but definitely a missed opportunity. You know, I really stunk at the end of that season. But in December you signed with Arizona. Now, yeah, so then moved right along. So I spent my first seven seasons with the Marlins and then I played 12 more years, 12 more seasons after that, for 13 organizations, that's unbelievable Talk about a grinder.
Speaker 1:Just keep going.
Speaker 2:Quite a lot. We started running into each other around this point. Yeah, it was probably that year, so I was thinking you were probably in Colorado Springs one of those years Colorado Springs 2011.
Speaker 3:2011,. Okay, yeah, so I had spent 2009 with started that year with no 2010,.
Speaker 2:Excuse me, Okay.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I spent 2011, started that year with 2010, excuse me, okay, yeah, and I was. I spent, uh, 2011 in reno, uh, reno, and then in tacoma. So that year in 09, I went from uh with the diamondbacks, went to, went to reno, which was the inaugural season of the reno aces, spent about a month there, got called up, uh, and that was the year that, uh, bob melvin was fired and aj hinge took over uh, so I played for both bow mel and then aj there briefly and uh dfa'd.
Speaker 3:Uh ended up getting claimed by the padres that year. Went to san diego for about a month, played for bud Bud Black DFA'd about a month. After that picked up by the Mariners, where Jackson Renchick was the GM at the time. So some good Western PA connections there Was there for about a month. Dfa'd again, cleared waivers. This time ended up in Tacoma and then got recalled again at the end of the year and finished that year out with the Mariners in 2009. Did you pitch twice that year in 2009?
Speaker 1:Yes, I think so right yes.
Speaker 3:Both for the D-backs and the Padres.
Speaker 1:And one of those. You pitched a scoreless ninth inning, I think, against the Reds.
Speaker 3:So yeah, scoreless. Ninth pitched for the Diamondbacks. Pitched scoreless against the Reds. Got a double play ball from Darnell McDonald. Oh man, I think to clean that one up.
Speaker 2:Golly, how much we're overlapping right now Isn't that incredible Big DMACC yeah.
Speaker 3:It's crazy. And then I ended up in San Diego, and so we're playing an extra inning game in San Diego. Our bullpen's burned. I think it's like the 18th inning, 18th inning so I got to go in there against the D-backs team.
Speaker 2:I just got let go by you're almost to the point where you could not pitch against a former team. I was always against former teams.
Speaker 3:You had a 50-50 chance and I had just pitched for them, a few weeks prior they were a little intimidating. They had already seen my stuff. I think it was a few weeks prior, so they were a little intimidated, so they'd already seen my stuff. I think it was the big problem they knew what I had?
Speaker 1:Yeah, they had a great scouting report yeah they did.
Speaker 3:They had the book on me, but so I had two outs. Though I got two outs, two guys on base, I'd given up. I walked a guy and Felipe Lopez had a base hit and Felipe Lopez had a base hit. So I got two on and two outs. Mark Reynolds up and I got him 0-2. And you know, mark, you're like I got the swing and miss. You're thinking for sure. I'm like he strikes out 200 times a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I got him.
Speaker 3:This is the one I'm going to get, and so I'm throwing breaking balls. I can't get him to chase anything. End to a 3-2 count and threw him a fastball and he hits an absolute nuke to right field.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, three-run bomb game winner.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, I thought I was going to get out of it. Had a chance at a dub, but yeah, mark had other ideas and yeah, as they say, you'd like to have that one back. Well pitching.
Speaker 1:So you pitched in the 18th inning you pitched four times.
Speaker 3:Do you like the automatic?
Speaker 1:runner rule at second base in extra innings.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you what, as a scout, I liked it. Yeah, well it uh. You love it as a scout when you're not in the field, it's yeah yeah, um, as a baseball guy, no, I can't stand it, but it it.
Speaker 3:I would say it definitely serves its purpose. Uh, games don't get much past the 11th or 12th inning max. I mean you just don't see those games dragging out. It puts pressure on guys to make pitches. So it definitely does serve its purpose.
Speaker 3:But when you're talking about the way teams are competing and the way you're supposed to be building rosters, I mean you're taking those elements out of the game. You know teams have a competitive advantage if they have guys that can pitch multiple innings in the bullpen, if they have starting pitchers that pitch deep into games. You know, and that's part of the game. It should be part of the game, but you know as it is. You know the way the game is. You know I guess there's some more excitement. You got these bullpens with guys that can, you know, throw it hard and show you a bunch of stuff, and you know that's exciting in and of itself too. So as far as the way the game is constructed right now, I mean I don't have a huge issue with it. I wish it was still the way it was. Extra innings should be extra innings and you should have to really earn it, but it definitely serves its purpose and you do get through those games and if it keeps some guys healthy, then I don't have a huge issue with it.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I've asked you, and I have talked about it before Do you like the automatic runner rule?
Speaker 2:I don't.
Speaker 1:I wish it would start a little bit later. If they were going to do it, yeah, give it two or three innings're never going to hear about that 18th inning when he comes in. I know these stories. Steve Glass always said when they change all these rules, they forget. Baseball is all about the stories.
Speaker 3:And if you have one of those guys I mean if you have a club like a Mitch Moreland or one of those guys that you've got a first baseman that can throw 95 and he's a college closer, you were on deck I was on deck.
Speaker 2:I was on deck Charlie Blackman's hitting and I'm out on deck. I'm like I don't want to face him.
Speaker 3:No, he's throwing 94. He's throwing 95.
Speaker 2:No, way yeah he's got a little bit of an angle. I'm like this isn't a position player.
Speaker 3:And that's a serious competitive advantage for clubs. So I don't love it. It serves a purpose, but I wish it would force teams to think about that a little more and build their rosters accordingly. I think that's part of the game.
Speaker 1:Should be part of the game. Did you like the scouting with the Tigers? How many years did you do it?
Speaker 3:I did it for six years I did. Going to the ballpark being a part of the game is the greatest thing on earth. Going to the ballpark I mean being a part of the game is I mean it's the greatest thing on earth. And going to the ballpark every single day and seeing the other guys getting to watch a ballgame, getting to see these kids go out and live their dream, you know, compete, I mean that's the best. That's the best. And that part of scouting I loved.
Speaker 3:You sit on the computer for quite a lot of your time You're in the car a lot, Um, the feedback doesn't come quickly. I mean you write your reports and you sit there and you kind of wait and you see in a few years how you did. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you think you're? I asked Donnie Kelly that do you think you're a good scout?
Speaker 3:Uh, I mean, I don't know. I think that remains to be seen, you know, because?
Speaker 1:some of the players you've had reports on. Now that many years they've gotten to the big leagues.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you've had some guys. There have been some players that have gotten there, most of the ones that you know, a guy like an O'Neal Cruz I mean these guys you knew he was going to play in the big leagues. You see the talent and that stuff's not hard to see. A guy like O'Neal Cruz, you know they can run and throw and he's a monster. You know that guy's pretty easy to say that guy's going to be something pretty good.
Speaker 1:All right, is there anybody, josh, that you saw six years ago in the minor leagues somewhere and you thought this guy and you're going to put a report in on him. And when he got to the big leagues, maybe you put a report on him and the Tigers which happens all the time they kind of fluff it off, but maybe now you've seen him and you're going. You know what. I was right on that guy.
Speaker 3:You know, I don't.
Speaker 2:Or wrong for that matter. Don't be too humble.
Speaker 3:Let's go. No, I say that Donnie won't admit it. Come on, that's okay. Well, as a scout, I think you're always probably kind of learning, because you I said you you see guys that you know are good players, talented players. You know they're going to be good. You don't really know exactly. You know how good or what they're going to be.
Speaker 3:I mean, you know, you you have questions on a guy like O'Neill Cruz, for example, that you know everybody wanted to play short. So personally, I always thought he would play short. I didn't see any reason why he couldn't, just because he's huge. He's the most athletic guy that I've seen, you know. So you know, maybe he has to do it a little different, but you know, and he lasted probably a lot longer short than most guys did, but I don't know that there was any guys that I was probably way ahead of the field on that. You know, other guys were just completely off. I don't think I had any of those guys. Um, I know there's. There's a player named uh joey ortiz, who's with uh, oh yeah, milwaukee now, who you know I liked from the first time. I saw him, thought he'd be a good everyday player in the big leagues. You're cool, you know, but I'm sure other guys did too. I mean, I don't think I was the only guy to like him.
Speaker 2:Humility, brian, it's called humility.
Speaker 1:I know, I know I mean players like that.
Speaker 3:I saw like Gunnar Henderson and Adley Rutschman, I mean everybody thought that's a question, right, because you were a premier defensive player. Yeah, and so now is it hard for you not to think that way.
Speaker 1:As a scout Like you know what I mean. You've got to bring yourself down.
Speaker 2:It goes back to what I said to Donnie Kelly you do not win a championship without a DK and a Josh Wilson Right, right those and a Josh Wilson those bench players matter the most in the biggest times, the bullpen and the bench always win championships.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, I mean you need those players. Yeah, really, I mean those are the guys that you're searching for. You know we get caught up with trying to find the star player guys, but you're going to have a heck of a time acquiring them. I mean, really in today's game. I mean trades just don't seem to happen and teams are so reluctant to give up on players or trade away players that you know have star potential.
Speaker 2:They'll let them kind of die.
Speaker 3:Nowadays, yeah, I mean really, they're just going to hang on to them and even if they're not going to pan out I mean there's just there's not many I don't think there's many front offices out there right now that are willing to take those risks and risk losing those type of players they're going to hold them and hopefully get the most out of them. But yeah, the way you can really win, I think, is definitely with those type of guys that somebody thinks is maybe just a AAA player that you think can actually be a really good bench player in the big leagues, somebody that you can get 200 or 250 at-bats of in the big leagues and move them all around the field. I mean because that's the guy that helps your everyday players, your star players, you know, get the rest that they need. Or or you know, get the day off against a tough pitcher, or whatever the case may be. That keeps you above water. They keep you competitive in games and help you win.
Speaker 3:And I mean we see this now. We see this with the way teams construct their rosters and have versatility and flexibility. They get these guys that can move around the field and are just solid contributors. They may not be the superstars, but they can help you win in a lot of different ways. Yeah, and finding those type of guys is definitely where you can make a difference on the scouting side, for sure I got one more, your scouting process right.
Speaker 2:So you're going in probably tell kids all the time, take a lot of respect in everything you do. What did you watch for to give a little hint or a little help to kids or parents out there? They're, you know, hoping that their kid makes it to the pinnacle. What were the? Some of the things you would watch for, and maybe even cross a guy out if you saw.
Speaker 3:Well, you know to to cross guys out completely is is difficult. I mean I gotta amen, you gotta really not not like a guy, um, to just kind of to be completely off a guy you know at first glance. Um, you know you got to give guys an opportunity, especially in the scouting world, because you only get a limited, limited number of games to watch players before you got to make a decision. So you know, sometimes you're seeing a player on the field that may not be exactly what the player really is, so you got to be cautious and I mean that's something I learned early because I definitely did that to some guys and have done it. And you find out, oh no, I was wrong, this guy was just kind of early cold weather or whatever the case was. You know, maybe something going on off the field that a guy just had a bad series and you saw him bad.
Speaker 3:But you know really the things that really turn you off and it's the same for, I think, whether you're a scout, a manager, a coach, it's just the guys that don't seem like they're interested, guys that are going through the motions, guys that don't seem like they're interested. Guys that are going through the motions, guys that don't seem like they're putting work in. Guys not taking pride in their work. That makes it hard, because what you're looking for as a scout is one. You're looking for talented players that are going to perform and be good. But really you don't want to end up in a scenario where you recommend a guy and you acquire him and then your manager doesn't like him because he he's not a good guy. He doesn't work.
Speaker 2:He doesn't care.
Speaker 3:The character doesn't fit. Um, you know that's, that's worst case scenario. I mean, if a guy shows up and he can run, he can throw, he's got power and he just doesn't perform, well, you know, hey, you're wrong. But you know, if the guy's working and he's a good character guy and maybe he can do something, run a little bit or play defense and there's some way that you find some use out of him, well, you know, at least you feel good that your manager is not like, hey, you know what's the deal with this guy. But you know, you end up signing a guy that could be as talented as anybody but, you know, just has a bad work ethic or whatever, and your manager just doesn't like them.
Speaker 3:I mean, then that's, that's the one where, as a scout, I think you, you probably end up feeling, feeling a little worse. But yeah, fortunately for me, I mean I, I haven't been doing this very long, I haven't really run into those, those scenarios, but those are, those are kind of the fears that you have as a scout. Is I, just I? I wanted to make sure if I was putting a good grade on a guy and was saying he was a player I wanted to acquire, it was going to be somebody that AJ, as the manager, was going to want to have on the team, no matter how well he performed to some degree.
Speaker 1:Hey, we're going to keep enjoying our Fat Bottom Bettys and our coffees. We're going to keep chatting with Josh. Join us for another episode. We're going to keep talking here, but we've got a lot to talk to. Where he got the nickname the paper boy. We're going to talk about his dad, mike. We're going to talk about the pre and post-game and we also want to tell you about David Allen Clothing. Some of our guests received gift cards to David Allen Clothing, located on Washington Road in Mount Lebanon. Building a custom wardrobe is just a click away at davidallancustomclothingcom or stop by that showroom. Thanks to Josh Wilson. We'll continue talking. You know I noticed on all the pre and post-game football games and all these shows what they do to keep people like into it. They act like they're joking and stuff in their lives. We'll keep talking. We'll fade to black and no, just keep talking. Make sure you like and subscribe with all that stuff.
Speaker 3:But anyways, how Make sure you like and subscribe with all that stuff? How do you like this? It's really good stuff this is hilarious.
Speaker 1:Did you ever come across anybody like that?
