Hold My Cutter
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Hold My Cutter
Unearthed: Forgotten Baseball Heroes and Their Unmarked Graves
Unearthed: Forgotten Baseball Heroes and Their Unmarked Graves
When Brendan Schuster discovered that Honus Wagner was buried just 15 minutes from his home, he never imagined this curiosity would evolve into a profound mission to honor forgotten baseball heroes. In this deeply moving episode, we journey with Brendan through Pittsburgh's cemeteries as he uncovers the unmarked graves of Negro League players who shaped America's pastime yet were denied proper recognition even in death.
Brendan takes us back to 2006 when a chance encounter with Buck O'Neil—the charismatic Negro League legend—transformed his understanding of baseball history. After meeting Vince Chiarmella during the pandemic and discovering their shared passion for baseball burial sites, the two launched the Josh Gibson Unmarked Grave Project, dedicated to identifying and properly marking the final resting places of Negro League players.
The stories Brendan shares are equal parts detective work and historical preservation. From finding Ernest "Pud" Gooden's burial site to connecting with the descendants of Willis Moody, each marker placed represents not just a name etched in stone but a legacy restored. Most touching is how this project has inspired the next generation—seventh-graders at Seneca Valley raised money selling lollipops to fund a grave marker, creating a connection to history they'll carry throughout their lives.
While the project has successfully marked 11 players' graves in Allegheny County, with 10 more identified, Brendan reveals the staggering truth that an estimated 3,000 Negro League players lie in unmarked graves across the country. His mission continues to grow, connecting communities to their forgotten heroes one headstone at a time.
Discover how you can support this remarkable initiative by visiting jgfmemorialmarkers.org and help ensure that these extraordinary athletes—who played three games a day with subpar equipment while sleeping on suitcases—finally receive the recognition they deserve.
Josh Gibson Foundations
(Unmarked Grave)
http://www.jgfmemorialmarkers.org
THANK YOU FOR LISTENING!!!!
www.holdmycutter.com
well, we welcome you to another episode of hold my cutter here at burn by rocky patel, just in a short walk from pnc park, and we're pleased to be joined by brendan schuster. And let's find out why brendan schuster decided on this as our cigar special, our featured cigar. What is it about this cigar?
Speaker 3:It's a Deadwood brand and you'll understand that a lot more as this podcast goes along. He chased his ghost. Uh-huh, yeah, that's what he does.
Speaker 2:Is that true, Brendan? You chase ghosts.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I see dead people. We'll save that. Let's get to the point. That's what my wife always says. She says why don't you just say you see dead people?
Speaker 2:What is that? Let's get right to it, we'll find out. What do you do?
Speaker 4:Thanks for having me. We're talking about a full circle moment right now. I mean, really, I've got 20 years to cover in like 45 minutes. So we'll get to the point, okay.
Speaker 3:No, you do not rush Okay.
Speaker 4:So, first and foremost, I got. I got a couple of things for you guys. Come on, he comes bearing gifts this year is on behalf of the Josh Gibson foundation, so he's going to hang it up somewhere.
Speaker 3:We'll do that.
Speaker 2:We'll get a close-up of that.
Speaker 3:Wow so sick.
Speaker 4:I brought you each a signed book from Vince, and I Never heard of them either. This is the second.
Speaker 2:This is the second. Your first one that was published is a follow-up to Never Heard of Him. Yes, follow-up to Never Heard of Him.
Speaker 4:Yes, correct. So Vince wrote Never Heard of Him. Okay, vince and I wrote Never Heard of them.
Speaker 2:Vincent Chiaramella is your partner here, your co-author friend.
Speaker 4:And this is about the ghost. So this is about just 12 baseball players you really don't hear about In the book. There are three guys that are part of the Unmarked Grave project that we did write about In the book. There are three guys that are part of the Unmarked Grave project that we did write about Dave Allen, who played for the Pittsburgh Keystones in 1887, willis Moody and Emmett Bowman. So there's three just guys that we, or two we have markers for one we're working on, but the other nine are just random baseball players that most guys have not heard of so, so that that kind of brings it thank you, by the way.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, thank you very much uh, never heard of them either.
Speaker 2:12 more tales from pittsburgh's baseball past. And brendan schuster is our guest. He and vince chirabella co-authored that book that's the follow-up to Never Heard of Him.
Speaker 4:And again, you somehow found this niche opportunity to go and find graves, unmarked graves yes, so it all started when I read a book called Bury my Heart at Cooperstown in 2006. It was short stories of how baseball players died and where they're buried. So I got this interest and I thought, wow, Pittsburgh, they're rich in baseball history, they have the Pirates, the Grays, the Crawfords. There's got to be some players buried in the area. So I got on Google, did a search real quick and my first find was Hannes Wagner, who was 15 minutes from my house. I said, whoa, this is cool, 15 minutes from where you grew up in Carnegie. No, I was in Dorman at the time.
Speaker 4:So, he's in Jefferson Memorial Cemetery.
Speaker 3:Oh, where he's buried. I'm sorry, was it unmarked?
Speaker 4:No, he's in a marked grave. I went first and I found where he's buried.
Speaker 2:Can I interrupt you as we go along here? I've kicked myself because I want to start doing this myself. I'm fascinated by this as well. I haven't even been to his home site and the library and the little mini museum to his grave. I haven't even been to his home site and the library and the kind of little mini museum in his honor. What's that grave like? Is it a very simple grave? Is it small? Is it?
Speaker 4:big, Very simple. It is Right alongside of the road in the cemetery flat marker. You could easily just pass it by. But if you're looking for it, you will find a bobblehead or a hat or a ball.
Speaker 2:Somebody will stop by in his honor A baseball memorabilia will be at his grave.
Speaker 3:He's definitely one of the best players of all time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah. I know, yeah, yeah, you could drive right past him and not notice that he was arguably the greatest shortstop of all time. Wow, right, and Jefferson Memorial. So then I felt like I was onto something. Yeah, I mean, this is cool, who else is around? Yep. So then a family friend and I, I said Joe, I said Josh Gibson is in Allegheny Cemetery, let's go find him. And we just felt like two little kids, you know, like we were trespassing or we were thought does anybody?
Speaker 3:else know that he's here.
Speaker 2:Like this is a treasure, you know. So went um before a family event.
Speaker 4:You went during the day, right, yes, yeah okay, went during the day and, uh, sure enough, we pull up, you know, we see a sign that says josh gibson, with an arrow pointing up the hill, and uh, you know, the excitement is just building up. Oh, this is cool. So, sure enough, we walk up the hill and there's the grave of Josh Gibson, the greatest power hitter of all time, who never made it into the major leagues, and same with his grave as Hannes Wagner's, there's baseballs and bats and gloves and anything else you can name Again, a modest gravestone for Josh Gibb, although there is a marker that says his grave site is up this way Did you feel like an energy or something.
Speaker 3:There had to be an excitement, but was there a little bit more to it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, so in the book I write about, you know, in the movie Shawshank Redemption, how Morgan Freeman walks up at the end of the movie to this long stone wall and he hears his friend's voice in the background. Andy, if you come this far, if you're willing to go a little bit further. And you hear a bird in the background.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 4:So you look around. So that's how I felt. That was the exact feeling.
Speaker 2:If I find myself with somebody looking at me.
Speaker 4:Who else is looking? Who else knows about this? Am I allowed to be here? Yeah, you know, I've never really been to a cemetery before. What are the rules, you know? So there's a lot of questions. A lot of questions started as far as okay. Why Pittsburgh, you know? Why are they buried here? Why? Why Pittsburgh? Why are they buried here? Why this cemetery? Who else is around? Who was here when he was buried? You think, for example, it was Babe Ruth here who was at the ceremony. So the question started. So that's kind of how things started for me in 2006. I had this feel to find the graves of baseball players. So fast forward a little bit to COVID. We're going to go to COVID.
Speaker 2:Well, that's not a little bit. That's fast forward a long. That's what 14 years, 14 years. We'll get 14 years. So over 14 years, were you trying to find grave sites of players?
Speaker 4:During that time the interest was always there, but it really didn't take off until COVID Okay, Because I was working, my wife was at home raising kids.
Speaker 2:So it was just a time. It was just a time but it was always there.
Speaker 4:I always had the interest reading books and just kind of wanting to do it. So 2020, the COVID happened. We made an annual trip to. We would always go to Ocean City, maryland. That trip didn't happen because of riots and COVID, but we still wanted to get out of town. So we went to the Smoky Mountains.
Speaker 4:I said, hey, while we're down here by the way while we're down here, let's go see the grave of Shoeless Joe Jackson in Greenville, South Carolina. So it was like our first family trip we did together on a baseball journey. So we saw some things for Shoeless Joe in Greenville. Did you see his little house? It was during the move, so they were moving it only like 100 yards.
Speaker 2:It was right across from the ballpark wasn't it. Is that the one you saw? Yep yeah.
Speaker 4:Saw the beginning of the move, didn't go in it because it was under construction.
Speaker 2:Did you talk to the woman, the curator there, her story? Just curious, no All right. We'll talk about that Our post-podcast Wild story about the woman who ended up getting involved.
Speaker 3:Well, share it now.
Speaker 2:I want to know Well.
Speaker 4:I don't want to stop the momentum here, I don't want to stop the momentum.
Speaker 2:We'll get back to it, we'll get back to it.
Speaker 3:I'm on the edge of my seat now.
Speaker 4:I have another smoke. It was the first family baseball adventure we went on. We came back and said, okay, let's find more.
Speaker 2:Are you forcing your family into this? Are they baseball fans? I wouldn't say.
Speaker 4:I'm forcing them.
Speaker 3:I met your wife. She seems proud. You're encouraging.
Speaker 4:My wife Erica is very encouraging of what I do for sure.
Speaker 3:Think about it, Brownie. He finds unmarked graves. Some of these families don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I know but this is prior to this mission that he's on. He has his kids and his wife go to Joe Jackson's place. We're going to Greenville Did you find his shoes by chance.
Speaker 4:Shoes were there, balls were there? The original shoes? I don't think were there. I would have had them. I would have taken them, fronzed them up, yeah, so anyway. Then we were like, okay, who else is around? Oh, cy Young is less than two hours away in Paoli, ohio. Let's go see his grave. Talking about being in the heart of Amish country, you know here's, you got an award named after the greatest pitcher of all time and he's in the heart of Amish country. If you did not know, you would just drive right by the church. Really, really, and it's always, the kids always say, oh, that's the trip we lost to internet.
Speaker 2:So again, you saw the grave site and you wouldn't know it otherwise. It's not a big sign.
Speaker 4:Correct Small church. The grave is bigger. It's not a flat marker for him, but it does say Young on the front and Denton Cy Young on the front. So then again hats balls all around him.
Speaker 3:So he sticks out once when you're in the cemetery.
Speaker 4:But if you're not, no clue.
Speaker 3:But he was an Amish right.
Speaker 2:Right, just when you're in the cemetery, but if you're not, yeah, no clue. But but he was an amish, right, right, right, just buried in amish, but it was like a one-stop town.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, you know, yeah, so, okay, this is cool, we're onto something. And then we went and saw uh lefty grove, where he grew up in lunacoming, maryland, which is like an hour and a half away near deep creek. So we were making these family trips, weekend trips, we would go find a hotel spend the night.
Speaker 2:Based around this too, by the way. Based around baseball graves right, yes, and how would you end up picking these spots?
Speaker 4:though I think I just did a Google search to see who's around the area. Okay, and that's where we found.
Speaker 3:What do you type in Google-wise?
Speaker 2:Baseball burial sites around the Pittsburgh area Pretty much, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3:No FBI calling you or anything.
Speaker 2:I'm looking that up right now as we speak.
Speaker 4:Go ahead, so things just start popping up and then so you get to a point, you know it was 2020. We're in that year and I see an ad on Facebook for this book called Grates in the Graveyard Over 100 baseball over 100 graves of baseball players buried in Allegheny County. You know from managers, executives, basically personalities, over 100 players. I said personalities, over 100. I said stop, over 100. I only found like three. Wait a second. You mean to tell me that there's over 100 in Allegheny County? I quickly ordered the book and I looked up the guy's name Vince Tormella. Wait a second. We have some mutual friends. Huh, wait a second. He's in Bethel Park, like I am.
Speaker 4:So I messaged a friend. I said do you know this guy? Calm off. And she said he's my neighbor. What I said, I'm going to message him. And it turns out he lives about an hour away from me and we had some back and forth. I said it's basically like the movie Step Brothers where we said did we just become?
Speaker 3:best friends.
Speaker 4:I like to do this stuff too, I like to do this stuff too, this is awesome. Come on this is cool, but over 100. So I got the book and I'm like whoa, like this is super cool. I've got to find these guys and he has a checklist on the back of the book. You go to the certain cemetery Bob Prince is close by. There are certain guys that you know and heard of. Other guys one cup of coffee players, we call them, played one game in 1904. You just never heard of them. But then when you visit the grave.
Speaker 3:when you visit the grave, You're at 23,000,.
Speaker 4:I should say yeah, when you visit the grave, you feel like you got to know him.
Speaker 3:You're there, you're standing next to him and it's something about him, what goes into the research, like up to that? Because you say you got to know him, I'm sure you're learning all about him.
Speaker 4:Yeah so.
Speaker 4:Vince Spearhead when he wrote that book, grace in the Graveyard. The research is very intense. You're really going line by line with players. You see a team picture. You say, okay, I'm going to identify all these players, see where they're buried, see who's in Pittsburgh, and I'm going to find where they're buried. And then you start once when I see the grave that's when I'm doing a little more research find out who exactly was this person. Who did they play for, what did they do? What's their connection to Pittsburgh? And there's a lot of guys that are connected to each other in Pittsburgh. They all kind of played with each other, know each other somehow. So it's pretty cool to connect the dots. So Vince and I ended up hooking up One time we said he said, hey, if you want to go on a, I'll take you around.
Speaker 4:I'll show you some graves. Of course, yeah, man, I want to go. So he took me to Calvary Cemetery. It was the first time we went out and found these markers of the baseball players. And as we're looking around, he's telling me okay, well, so-and-so is buried right here. There's nothing there. Well, yeah, that's where he's buried.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? There's nothing there. There's nothing there Well how do you know where it is?
Speaker 4:He did the research to find out. Okay, so-and-so. Is in an unmarked grave in this location.
Speaker 3:And is it a roundabout or is it pretty precise?
Speaker 4:Pretty close. He's been near spot on. But then once we confirm with the cemetery and a marker goes to be put in, they know the exact spot. But if he takes a picture from here to there it's in the picture. You know of where the players marked.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I mean pretty darn close. So I just I felt at that time he said, yeah, so-and-so played for this team, but they don't have a marker. And you're walking right over them. Nobody has come to see the marker, nobody knows that the player is there, any cemetery goers, family members, friends? They have nothing to see. They probably don't even know. They probably don't. Yes, right, exactly. So a lot of questions, yeah, and I felt like is this even legal? Is this allowed to be done? How did this happen? Why isn't there a marker? Now, who do I contact? What do we do to get them a marker? You know, this was kind of out of my territory at the time. So that's how the interest, that's how I got to where I am today with the Josh Gibson Unmarked Grave Project and it all kind of.
Speaker 3:When did that exactly start?
Speaker 4:So when it all started. Sometimes the pieces just fall into place where they're supposed to. So it all started when Sean, the great-grandson of Josh Gibson, josh's wife Helen, sean's great-grandmother, was in an unmarked grave for 92 years in Allegheny Cemetery. She's buried close to Josh down the hill, but they got a marker for her. This wasn't through the Josh Gibson Unmarked Grave Project, but they got a marker for her in August of 2022. The Josh Gibson Foundation did Not necessarily. I'm not sure who found her and got the money for her.
Speaker 4:Somebody did so. They put a marker in for her and so they got them. They put a marker in for her and you drive on the road through Allegheny County, allegheny Cemetery, on the way to see Josh. Helen is right on the road and if you didn't know again you would drive right by her and it says you know the wife of Josh Gibson, helen Gibson, the wife of Josh Gibson. She died the day after she gave birth to their twins.
Speaker 2:Ah, Wow, josh.
Speaker 4:Jr and Helen. So she died in 1930. What year did he die? 1947. January of 1947. His birthday is coming up in three days, December 21st.
Speaker 2:By the way, before I forget, I googled baseball burial sites around Pittsburgh St John's Lutheran Cemetery, uniondale Cemetery, allegheny Cemetery, voetley Cemetery, the Homewood Cemetery, southside Cemetery, Greenwood Cemetery and PNC Park.
Speaker 4:PNC Park. That would explain a lot. That would explain a lot. That would explain a lot.
Speaker 2:So anyway, but these other grave sites it's familiar to you that they indeed have?
Speaker 4:Yep, okay, so the who's buried at PNC?
Speaker 3:Well, Jimmy Hoffa Stay tuned, stay tuned yeah.
Speaker 4:That I'm not aware of, but I'm sure somebody is Stay tuned.
Speaker 3:That I'm not aware of, but I'm sure somebody is.
Speaker 4:Yeah, somebody's under there.
Speaker 2:So where was I Back? To his widow. She's buried there. He died in 47. 47.
Speaker 4:And so they got a marker for her thought to himself okay, are there any other Negro League baseball players with unmarked graves in the Pittsburgh area? So that's when he, sean and Vince knew each other from prior conversations with trying to find graves and certain things along that nature. So Sean reached out to Vince and said, hey, are you aware of any other any Negro League baseball players buried in the Pittsburgh area? So he said yeah, I am, I have a list started. He said, okay, we're going to do a Josh Gibson on Mark Grave project, which I then jumped on board in March of 2023. So there was four or five of us on the committee that got a list of events, provided us the list of the players where they're buried, and we were just conquering divide and we was just conquering, dividing, conquering.
Speaker 4:So I took four or five players, so-and-so, took a couple players and it was then our job to reach out to the cemetery to confirm that the player's there, to get the okay to put in a marker. We introduced ourselves and who we were working with. So that's how things started. But everything we have to raise money for these markers that you know cost anywhere, but you know roughly $900. It's like $600 for the marker, $300 for the footer if the cemetery doesn't spot the footer so we have to raise money for the markers so it doesn't happen overnight and then so the first marker we had, the first baseball player marker we had put in, was for a guy named Ernest Pudd Gooden. In July of 2023.
Speaker 3:Pudd, pudd.
Speaker 4:Gooden, yeah, Played for whom? He played for the second Pittsburgh Keystones. There was two Pittsburgh Keystones, the 1887 team. That only lasted two weeks and then there's a second Pittsburgh Keystones team that played in 1921 and 1922.
Speaker 2:Well, you don't hear much about that team do you, they must not have been very good. I guess they were dwarfed by the craze.
Speaker 4:It just didn't turn out the way they wanted all color team, so he was the first marker put in, and then things just kind of steamrolled from there. So that's where we're at. From July of 2023 to now, we have 11 players marked, do you?
Speaker 2:have a goal. I guess it's endless. There is no limit Right.
Speaker 4:So we know of 21 players that don't have a marker.
Speaker 3:Is this pre-11 that you already have?
Speaker 4:Was that before the 11? There was a total of 21. Okay 11 marked now, so 10 more to go All in.
Speaker 3:Allegheny County. Yes, that's crazy.
Speaker 4:All in Allegheny.
Speaker 3:County.
Speaker 2:So I'm saying beyond that who knows where you go, right, right, so there's other players.
Speaker 4:One of two things. There's other players that, according to their death certificate, it says died in Pittsburgh. Burial information unknown.
Speaker 3:Where do you find that? Do you have to go to the courthouse Because it's obviously not digital baseball ref.
Speaker 4:So it's really if you're aware of a player, google, search him Emmett Bowman, find a grave and it will give you the information. Most likely it will give you that information. Oh, emmett Bowman buried in Coriopolis Cemetery. If there's no plot information, no picture of the grave, most likely he's in an unmarked grave.
Speaker 3:So do you go then?
Speaker 4:So you can go to the cemetery or call the cemetery first and say, can you confirm with me that you have a guy by the name of Emmett Bowman, who was born this year, died this year, in your cemetery, and they can confirm yes or no. So if it's not available online, we've got to call the cemetery and then they look through their records and say, yeah, your name.
Speaker 2:You have a. You have priority as to who you want to get in first. So how do you do that?
Speaker 4:How how we're prioritizing the markers is per cemetery.
Speaker 3:That's how we, that's how we kind of you can kind of knock out more you go cemetery first, so it could be three in one cemetery and you're going to get that done and then go to the next cemetery. Yes, that's the game plan I see. When you find the player, they're at the cemetery. It's unmarked. Do you get to contact family? Have you gotten that privilege, a couple?
Speaker 4:times I've been in contact with Willis Moody Wayne. Moody Wayne Moody is the grandson of Willis. Moody Wayne wrote a good book that you should have on your bookshelf, called the Real Story of the Niggerleaks. Oh wow, the Real Story of the Niggerleaks. He wrote that book and small world because he graduated a few years after my mother-in-law did in high school.
Speaker 3:Please tell me he's from around here. Yeah, of course, really Living around here, yes, he does.
Speaker 4:I don't know exactly where, but he is in the Pittsburgh area, wow.
Speaker 3:Wow, he is in the Pittsburgh area. Wow, I mean the rich baseball history in Pittsburgh. That's the point of Hold my Cutter.
Speaker 2:Hey, we're exposing all this stuff.
Speaker 4:So he's the grandson of Willis Moody, who played for the Homestead Grays in the early 1920s, still living An author. So we've shared a lot of information, we've gone back and forth. I hooked him up. I run a Facebook page called Down from the Attic, vintage Sports. It's just a general interest page. Anyone can post on it. But anyway he started to share a lot of old newspaper articles of his grandfather, willis Moody, so the story was out there. Wow, he's playing with all these other players that we know about. So that's one connection that I had with a family member.
Speaker 3:Did he know anything about this grave?
Speaker 4:So he knew he was unmarked and he's in Chartier Cemetery in Carnegie. He also has other family buried there. So his initial thought was that he wanted to do a stone on his own. He had an idea of what the stone wanted to look like. But over the summer he reached out to us and said hey, can you put my grandfather on the project? Like to get a stone put in for him?
Speaker 4:So, just last week we got that approved. I called a short-tier cemetery and they said, yep, this is all we need is the paperwork from Rome Monuments. Who we work with.
Speaker 2:Okay, and that's my next question, though, you have to keep kind of a uniform on this, I would think. Right, it's fairly as simple as you can make it. Does any one grade get more letters on it than any other?
Speaker 4:No, it's a simple name birth date, death date, negro League baseball player. Oh, that's it Flat marker 12 by 24.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter if one player is better than the other. No, correct.
Speaker 4:Or how many teams they played for I see, so the markers are just one simple template of names.
Speaker 3:I'm sure the cost starts to go up as you put more on it, right yeah?
Speaker 4:Now we're at a point where there's about four or five guys that we know what cemetery they're buried in, but we don't know where they're buried. So what do you do then? So one guy, for example, is Sam Streeter. He was cremated. He's in Homewood. Cemetery. He's in a section.
Speaker 3:So he could be everywhere Literally.
Speaker 4:He's in a section and the cemetery confirmed it, but he doesn't have a lot like an actual plot himself. So what we need to do with him is we talked to the cemetery and they said, yeah, you can do a plaque, a plaque next to a tree along the road. All right For him, and that's a work in progress right now as far as how much we want to write on it. Well, that's an interesting dynamic now, right now, as far as how much we want to write on it.
Speaker 2:That's an interesting dynamic. Now You've introduced something here. Because a plaque is cheaper than the gravestone, you can write more on it. That's interesting, if you don't find the gravesite. Or you could put a plaque up instead of a gravestone.
Speaker 4:That's something we're working through the details with, because we've not done a plaque yet. We've just done the markers.
Speaker 3:You can almost tell the rich history of a plaque.
Speaker 4:So you picture an historical marker, the 1903 World Series marker right after. Something in that nature.
Speaker 2:Although there must be policies in these cemeteries, you probably can't just start dotting all these cemeteries with historical markers Right, so you've got to get the approval.
Speaker 4:Every cemetery is different. Yeah, I say that they have a different personality. Some are well-maintained, some are more helpful than others. Some you call them, they answer right away, they give you the information right away or they'll get back to you within 24 hours. Others not so much. Others were well, this guy here, good luck talking to that cemetery.
Speaker 3:Because of this reason, I think it would be really cool if you go up to a cemetery and there's a plaque and it tells you some of the people that are buried there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but again I don't think that cemeteries I don't think they really care. I disagree with you. Some do, some don't. I think it would be awfully interesting to see if this develops like this.
Speaker 3:I mean, if I was anywhere near Josh Gibson, I would go see his grave.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, now I'm thinking what I want to do is I want to get a nice plaque by the Josh Gibson grave site that has all the information on it. How about that? Hold my cutter.
Speaker 3:Sponsored by Hold.
Speaker 2:My Cutter, by the way, speaking of before we go any further, if somebody wants to contribute to the Josh Gibson Foundation, or do you?
Speaker 3:I'll get all this information.
Speaker 4:We have a website, wwwjgfmemoriamarkersorg. On the website.
Speaker 3:Okay, awesome, and it's only about two years old.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah, march of 2023, I think, is when, roughly, the website went live. Okay, so on the website it has the players, the cemeteries, a little bit more about the project, and then there's a donate button on the right-hand side, very simple to fill out. If you want your name on the list once when you donate, you can put your name and information out there. If not, you can go anonymous.
Speaker 2:Leonard Lee is our director, producer and sidekick. What do you think of all this, leonard Len? We call him Len Len Lee. Very amazing. I think it's cool that Is he on. Can you hear me? I can't hear him. Can you hear me now? How about now? There we go. I can hear you now. What were you saying? He's behind the lights, so we can't see him right now.
Speaker 1:I'm the behind-the guy yeah but honestly, uh, the fact that you know you're going out your way and doing this type of research and just keeping, uh, you know, keeping the culture informed, you know, I think that's big uh, especially in the baseball community, the black culture as well, I think, um, you know, that's kind of amazing it's amazing, you know it really is, isn't it?
Speaker 4:it's keeping these stories alive. You know, and I'm, I'm, I'm, always've always been a big fan of Rocky. I'm from the Philadelphia area.
Speaker 2:It looks like you're making fun of Rocky. I've always liked Rocky. You're making fun of him.
Speaker 4:And I've always liked the story of the underdog and these guys who played were just as good, if not better, than the players in the major league, but they weren't given the fair chance.
Speaker 3:I mean all they had to go through. I mean they were playing three games a day. Yeah, I mean, it's no joke. Bad bus rides yeah, absolutely, it's crazy to think.
Speaker 4:For them to perform the way they did, with no sleep or sleeping on their suitcase as a pillow Yep, the worst equipment, the worst equipment and to go out and perform the way they did.
Speaker 2:And do um, so I do enjoy. And you know baseball, we've talked about this on all, almost every one of our podcasts. Baseball's about stories that nobody has better stories than the negro leagues, I mean. And they, because they love baseball so much, they wore it on their sleeves and they just, uh, some are, you know, just like any story over the years. Uh, don't, don't know how much truth there is to them, but uh, the one about josh gibson hits a pop-up in Pittsburgh at Forbes Field. You know that one Yep Pop-up so high didn't come down. They don't know what happened to it. Next day they're playing in.
Speaker 2:Washington. Next day they're in Washington DC. A fly ball comes out and the sky is caught. The umpire says you're out from yesterday in Forbes Field, yep exactly.
Speaker 4:So that's how these stories come about.
Speaker 3:He's like Paul.
Speaker 4:Bunyan yeah right, absolutely. And to hear you know Cool Papa Bell, oh, he was so fast.
Speaker 2:And their nicknames. Is he the one that could turn the lights off? Yep.
Speaker 4:Get out of bed for now. That's where Ali got it, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:There's one where he pulled Papa Bell so fast. He used a single up the middle, he ran second and it hits him in the back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right. That's a great one. That is so great. You had that problem, didn't?
Speaker 4:you, I did.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Still do.
Speaker 4:So I got interested in black baseball in Pittsburgh. So in 2006, the same year where I really started hunting for graves, ironically is, I went to Cooperstown and that was the same year that about 17 Negro League players were inducted into the Hall of Fame. It was that year where my mother-in-law told me she said, when you go up there, see if you can meet Buck O'Neill. Never heard of him, didn't know anything about him. Okay, sure, okay, I'll keep my eyes open. So, sure enough. On Main Street, cooperstown, signing Buck O'Neill, 3 o'clock 2.30.
Speaker 3:Wait, wait wait, was that just random, yeah, just random.
Speaker 4:That's great. I was with my buddies and some family, just random. I didn't plan it out. Did she know? She knew he was going to be there?
Speaker 3:She didn't know any detail Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 4:I love that the name sounds familiar. My mother-in-law just told me okay, guys, I'll catch up with you. What a great mother-in-law just told me okay, guys, I'll catch up with you.
Speaker 3:What a great mother-in-law yeah.
Speaker 4:So I got in line. Okay, I was the third one in line and I just didn't know who he was. Oldest living nigger league baseball player at the time, 94 years old. Why not? Went in Rome, you know.
Speaker 3:Probably didn't look.
Speaker 2:94, did he Went in Rome, by the way, rome Graves, yeah, exactly Graves.
Speaker 4:He pulls up in his car.
Speaker 1:He was riding shotgun and he gets out of the car.
Speaker 2:And now Brennan is actually standing up out of his chair and strutting.
Speaker 3:He's got a swagger.
Speaker 2:But, by the way, with a gigantic smile on his face, because he always smiled. Oh, smiling ear to ear Smiling ear to ear.
Speaker 3:He had the swag Tony At 94, the swag?
Speaker 2:I don't think he meant. That's just where he walked, yeah.
Speaker 4:Could have been a hip issue.
Speaker 4:I don't know but he was very cool. No, and I said, well, like all of a sudden, you hear the stories about him. It's so true. He like lit up the room. Okay, he comes out of the car. Hey boys, hey boys, who are we playing today, boys? Hey girls, how are you doing today, girls? Oh, okay, all right, he sits down. I said, okay, now, I'm like starstruck. Now, what am I going to say to him? He just made this big impression on me. What am I going to say? Okay, think, think, think, big brain, pittsburgh, craze Crawford. He had to have played in Pittsburgh, he just had to. So I get up in line. I said hey, buck, nice to meet you. I drove all the way up from Pittsburgh to see you and he stopped, he put his sharpie down, looked me in the eye and said Pittsburgh, the north side of Pittsburgh, I love Pittsburgh. And he just went back 70 years.
Speaker 4:You could see this happening. Oh yeah, and we both just flashed back to a time when he was playing just like that, and he shook my hand. He said take care, young buck. Wow, I swear, he was like magical, unbelievable. And then you read these books and watch them on YouTube. He's the coolest guy that ever lived.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I'm sorry. I don't want to interrupt you, but you were at an event we did weeks ago up in Newcastle Chuck Tanner Day and people got up and talked about Chuck, and Chuck was one of those rare people that, when you're in his presence, he made you feel better about yourself. You walked away like I want to spend the rest of my life just hanging out with this guy because I feel so good about myself what made him it.
Speaker 2:Just some people a handful of my lifetime have had that effect. You know what I'm talking about, brennan, because you know. So I'm right now listening to old audio tapes that I have. My wife saved boxes of old audio tapes when I was doing minor league baseball and we had Buck O'Neill in a booth with us for a couple of innings once. And people have asked me your memories of your career, your minor league career. I spent five years doing these games. That's at the top of my list. He came in for a couple of innings. Can we digitize that? That's amazing. You've got to get that. I'm looking, I'm looking for it. You know what I'm talking about Because you had the moment with him.
Speaker 4:It was one of those moments, for sure.
Speaker 2:And people say who is the most?
Speaker 4:influential person in your life, buck O'Neill's top five.
Speaker 2:Isn't that amazing. One little interaction, five minutes he just had that aura.
Speaker 4:He just had that aura. So at that time I said I've got to learn more about black baseball in Pittsburgh. I know there's something there.
Speaker 3:So this elevated your journey.
Speaker 4:Yes, so that was part of my interest of how things kind of started. I've got to learn more. I'm home to the greatest Pittsburgh Crawfords for crying out loud, Two of the greatest teams that I've ever played in the Negro Leagues.
Speaker 3:Talk about that process. A lot of people maybe they know, maybe they don't, but talk about where did you start from there? Obviously you get a deeper interest because a good old buck Go from there. What was the next step?
Speaker 4:and you were just like the next aha moment. Um, the next moment was probably we're going to 2020, february 2020 so think about it, his love right.
Speaker 3:Oh, six to 2020. That's when I left college, brownie but okay, there we go again.
Speaker 2:But I'm just, I'm just saying, that's a long time yeah, so my entire pro career.
Speaker 3:Yep right, yeah, and I'm in the booth now. Yep 2020 that's nuts it is. And his love carried him all the way in his next big moment chasing that moment, obviously it's a euphoric feeling.
Speaker 4:Keep going so the next moment was february of 2020, before covid um Sean Pre-COVID. Yes, sean hosted the 100th anniversary of the Negro Leagues at the Heinz History Center, because they were formed by Rube Foster in 1920. February 1920. They celebrated the 100th anniversary, so my wife Prior to that, the Negro Leagues.
Speaker 3:Was there anything During that time? Was it just like Sandlot baseball at the time?
Speaker 4:Pre-Negro Leagues yeah.
Speaker 3:I grew up One of my first books was the Josh Gibson book. My grandmother gave it to me when I was four or five. I could barely read it. But Josh Gibson, jackie Robinson, so I fell in love with those guys. But I never thought about prior to that Was there anything there?
Speaker 4:Sandlots, yeah, I mean you think you know they played at Greenleaf Field, the Hill District. They played at Forest Field, but prior to when.
Speaker 3:I did Nothing organized.
Speaker 4:So they did barnstorming, which they would have a team and they would just go from town to town and do basically pickup games.
Speaker 3:So they'd just go whoop up on people. Yeah, pretty much, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know. So Sandlots from, we'll say, 1900 to 1920. So even when I wrote on Emmett Bowman, who died in 1912, he didn't have a headstone for 111 years. He died at 26 years old from tuberculosis. But he played with another great around here, Pete Hill, who grew up in Homewood, Rube Foster, Grant, Homerun Johnson, these pre-Nigger League players, and he was the trailblazer for what we now know as the Nigger Leagues that started in 1920. And then that formed and then 27 years later Jackie Robinson integrated baseball and then the Nigger Leagues kind of faded out because everybody wanted to see Jackie play in the majors and others that followed him. They were more now going to Major League Baseball games. So the Negro Leagues eventually faded out during that time. So the 100th anniversary of the Negro Leagues, that's where I met Sean for the first time and I met Al Oliver. What a great human.
Speaker 4:And just they presented on the Negro Leagues. You know, not only just Josh, but other players of just the history of the game. I said this is cool, like this is just right up my alley. I like history, I like baseball. That's so great. My baseball career didn't turn out too much so I like history I like baseball. That's so great. My baseball career didn't turn out too much, so I'm like I'm going to dig into this.
Speaker 2:And things really evolved, you know, from 2020 to where we are now with then putting in the markers for these players. That's a lot of stuff in a short amount of time. You've done yeah.
Speaker 3:How many times have we heard the story? Instead of being oh, pitiful me during 2020, people said you know what I'm gonna do? Something oh yeah, and something great comes out talking to david allen about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 3:yeah, because you could sit back and be like why is this happening? Yeah, or you could take charge, so that's what you took charge, that's all vince.
Speaker 4:When he wrote the grace in the graveyard book that was his uh project, he said I'm gonna walk in cemeteries and try to find family members. Then he thought, you know what? I'm going to try to find baseball players. So that's how he started with the book made of negative into positive right there. And then we just traveled around learning more about players in the area and then just resurfacing their stories that we now have. I wrote on Willis Moody and Emmett Bowman in the book you Google search Emmett Bowman, you're not going to find anything about him Nothing. So I kind of twisted it with the Josh Gibson Foundation and how he was basically my first assignment and how it was my personal story of that player Interesting, but yeah, he played with the Philadelphia Giants until 1911. It was his last baseball career season and died in 1912. And then his brother, george, played in the Negro Leagues but he's buried in Iowa. Another guy that we had in March is Lefty Pangburn. He's in Round Hill Cemetery. He played with Emmett's brother. So they all, there's all these ties and connections.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so.
Speaker 3:What's one or two players that you just resonated with. They don't have to be well-known, could add a cup of coffee, but you're just like, wow, what a story.
Speaker 4:I would have to say Emmett Bowman. I think, just because he was my first one, that I had him, until you see the marker put in, you know. What a great moment. What does that feel like?
Speaker 2:By the way, is there a ceremony? Are you always there when it's put in? No, okay.
Speaker 4:So there was a ceremony for Pud Gooden because it was like the first mark. Is that his real name, ernest Pud Gooden? Pud was his nickname.
Speaker 3:You want to know where I got the nicknames from? Yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 2:But nicknames have been phased out over the years too, unfortunately with baseball.
Speaker 4:That's sad years too, unfortunately with baseball. Yeah, so there was a ceremony for him in july of 2023. Not all have ceremonies, but when I first saw emma bowman, I knew nothing about him until I walked up that hill and saw his stone. I said I need to learn more about this guy. Yeah, who is he? Who did he play for? You know?
Speaker 4:And that that's when Vince and I had this idea of writing the book. He said I already had my story written on Willis Moody. He said pick two more guys to write about. I said I want to challenge myself and write about Emma Berman just because of the story and you can read about it. How I walked up and the sun shining, man neat. I just expressed how it was and how it happened. Then I said so if they were marked, if there was a story on them in the newspaper, if there was a story on them in the newspaper, it was on the back page, very bottom, so they didn't get the credit or the spotlight that other, like your Hannes Wagners of the world or Chrissy Mathesons were getting during 1903, 1910, at the time. So they were always put off to the side. So finding this information was a challenge to find and write about.
Speaker 2:Now, brandon, this is a dumb question. Are these all Negro League players? No, okay, it's kind of morphed into this for you the grave sites and the Josh Gibson Foundation. It started out beyond that, and so now you're kind of concentrating on the Negro League players. Get their grave sites, but there are then many others that are unmarked, aren't there. There's other white players that are unmarked aren't there.
Speaker 4:There's other white players that are unmarked. Yes, so that's another project to tackle. We're just focusing on the Negro League and there's other Negro League players buried outside of Allegheny and in other cities Philadelphia and Cleveland so Sean has been contacted by people from these cities.
Speaker 2:Beyond this area and they're seeing what we're doing.
Speaker 4:Hey, do you know about so-and-so? He's unmarked here. How can you help? What can we do? And it's kind of like hey, we're focusing on Pittsburgh right now. Maybe after we're finished we can further extend the project, but until then we're trying to focus on Allegheny County right now.
Speaker 3:Do you have 11 left that you know of.
Speaker 4:So now there's two that are in progress, three more that we got approved for Allegheny. So I think three, five, I think there's six that are in the process of being put in. So that would put us at 17, put in to start the spring of 2025.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 4:And then there's like four where we have to decide what we're going to do, because they're not going to get a marker, unless somehow we're told where they are in the cemetery. But we're working on plaques and other things.
Speaker 2:How many people do you have working? Not just you and Vince right. You two are pretty much it, though.
Speaker 4:Me, vince, sean Chris Cox, but I'm actually doing the research Mainly me and Vince. Yeah, yeah, man, what a project you love it. Oh, love it. Yeah, I can tell what a project you love it. Oh, love it. Yeah, I can tell. So another story to share. Last August I was helping run the Josh Gibson booth at a party and a teacher came up to me from Seneca Valley and said this is so cool, I need to do something with my seventh grade class, can you help me? So me and him hooked up and his class raised money, oh, oh, raised money, and he created the awareness of how to keep and preserve history. So I worked with him at the beginning of this year.
Speaker 3:That's a brilliant idea. Yeah, yeah, fantastic.
Speaker 4:What the kids were doing. They would get on the morning announcements and they would say, hey, we're raising money I can't think of the guy's name offhand, but raising money for a grave marker Any dollar you donate, you get a lollipop. How about that? And no, they made flyers, they made banners in their cafeteria.
Speaker 2:How neat is that.
Speaker 4:And then I went in March to Seneca Valley and they gave me the check for what they donated. I passed it along to Sean for the foundation and there was a good group of them that really just were passionate about it and they just had a smile ear to ear.
Speaker 3:They got to tie their name to something. Yeah, it says a lot when you're listening?
Speaker 4:The Seneca Valley? Yes, correct, seneca Valley did a news article on it. But I always think too wow, what did I just do there? These kids are not going to remember a math test or a math lesson or learning about something here in 7th grade. What are they going to learn about? I remember in 7th grade I raised money for this marker Absolutely they will. This guy was in an unmarked grave and we were on TV and we met Sean and this guy came in.
Speaker 3:It's because, you're giving them ownership.
Speaker 4:So it's yeah. That's crazy, and that was like I look back at it. I said I was really a part of that, so it's yeah, that's not true, it's given to ownership. That's crazy. And that was like I look back at it. I said I was really a part of that, man, you know.
Speaker 3:So it's spreading, so you've got to do that again, right, yeah, right, you've got to figure out a way to do that again.
Speaker 4:So exactly, other schools in the area, other certain events, to spread the word, to create the awareness. It's just something that I would love to do big picture dream a little for me.
Speaker 3:What's the dream? That there's no unmarked graves is that too big?
Speaker 4:there's a guy in Illinois who says there's about 3,000 players in nigger league, players in unmarked graves about 3,000 players in Negro League players in unmarked graves 3,000? Around the country?
Speaker 3:Yes, Wow, yeah, so Sounds like another team up.
Speaker 4:I'm just saying, Jeez, there's a. I know so it's a never ending project here in Allegheny County.
Speaker 2:We can get to it quicker than the other ones that are still nationwide.
Speaker 4:First, things first, how we're ever going to get all those, or whether we'll be a part of that, cemetery to cemetery.
Speaker 2:We're a part of this in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 3:But dreaming-wise, it'd be cool to get all of them.
Speaker 4:Certainly Think about any book you write, Right that too.
Speaker 3:If they have unmarked grave, think about the story.
Speaker 4:That's untold so the wheels are already spinning for a possible other book, down the line of what I could do to write my own book. So it's to keep these stories alive. And you know it's uh, yeah, to keep these stories alive and you know it's um pretty fascinating. It's it's strange to know that there's so many in on more graves, but it's raising that money, creating new work.
Speaker 2:It's getting them so many stories they deserve.
Speaker 3:Um has mlbpa got involved at all?
Speaker 4:I'm not sure to an extent of how much Maybe we need to call. Yeah, sounds good to me.
Speaker 3:I think this is something that they would really get behind. I mean, you've got to think there's not even 24,000 guys, including the Negro League players, that have even played the major leagues. So if you put that in perspective, I don't know if you're going after minor league players too, If you are kudos to you.
Speaker 4:But kudos to you. But I mean, think about it. There's no reason why they wouldn't want to get behind. Because you're talking about 23 000. You got 3 000 to go if you go league wise. Yeah, we got work to do, no right, exactly, wow. So every marker that we have installed we have a sign with a qr code just identifies the player, so it kind of gets the attention when somebody's walking by.
Speaker 3:Oh, who's this on the?
Speaker 4:grave it's. It's a so you have the in the ground and then it's just a sign that's in the ground like a yard sign that says you know for the Josh Gibson Foundation on Mark Grave Project so cool. And here is Emmett Bowman. He played for these teams. And then a QR code. You can just use your phone, get on the QR code and it'll go right to our website to give more information on the player so that kind of ties in there with just creating more awareness of some of these players.
Speaker 3:It's all started with the interest, which is so cool to come full circle.
Speaker 4:It was 20 years later to say I'm sitting here with you guys right now talking about I read a book that I was inspired by. Now I wrote a book. Did you ever think?
Speaker 3:you'd write a book.
Speaker 4:Not this soon. What do you do?
Speaker 3:for a living.
Speaker 4:I work at GNC so international Fellow meathead my friend oh man. So 20 years with the company now, wow, pittsburgh Company. Yeah, pittsburgh Company founded in 1935.
Speaker 3:Or gold yeah or gold yeah.
Speaker 4:So I've been in the area since I was 18, went to Cypriot Rock and my wife was from here and the rest is history Stayed in the Pittsburgh area. I've had family that lived here, like Monroeville and Bridgeville years ago. I never met them. They were relatives, but anyway it all comes together. So, yeah, to say, read a book that inspired me here and it just kind of happened where Vince said, hey, why don't you write a couple on a couple of players? And I said sure. And then he's like I'm going to plug it in into the book. I'll put your name on the front cover and then there's pictures in there. Into the book. I'll put your name on the front cover, then there's pictures in there. You'll talk about our family trips and the kids and just how I started doing this.
Speaker 2:How many grave sites total have you visited, not just the ones that you've put markers in?
Speaker 4:I've tried to keep a list.
Speaker 2:What would your guess be?
Speaker 4:It's not accurate, but it is roughly 100.
Speaker 2:100? Yeah, is there one that stands out as the most impressive? Because we talked about those unmarked, but what about maybe the most impressive headstone that you've seen, nellie Fox.
Speaker 3:Nellie Fox, which he's very aware of. You have to think long for that.
Speaker 4:Nellie Fox is in St Thomas, pa. St Thomas, pa. St Thomas, that's where he was from, played for the White Sox Hall of Famer. He had over 3,000 hits and 90% of them were singles. It just goes to show hit the ball, get on base. His marker was cool. You could see it a mile away. Is that up north central PA? Where is?
Speaker 2:that.
Speaker 4:It's central, more south central.
Speaker 3:You said you could see it from a mile away. What do you mean? Was it lit up?
Speaker 4:No kind of exaggerating, but you pull in the cemetery, it's a big marker. It doesn't have fireworks on it or anything, but it's a big marker. It doesn't have fireworks on it or anything, but it's a big marker. When he was inducted into the Hall of Fame that was it was different than the other markers that I was finding that were just flat markers with just a name on the marker. That's right near Chambersburg.
Speaker 2:I'm from Central PA and I should know that. Come on, let's get with it.
Speaker 4:I think it sounds like you guys are on an adventure that's right near Chambersburg.
Speaker 2:I'm from central PA and I should know that. Come on, brownie, come on, let's get with it, let's go.
Speaker 4:Come on, it sounds like you guys are on an adventure here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are. We're going to be to find grave markers. We'll be following you.
Speaker 3:We're going to have a caravan going. I like it. I like it.
Speaker 4:Like Dumb and Dumber the other way totally redeem yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we're in the wrong cemetery. How many times have you just been completely like either dumbfounded or lost?
Speaker 4:um a few, a handful of times. Yes, so it is.
Speaker 3:It is helpful if you're prepared yeah, I mean, I use google maps all time.
Speaker 4:It wears me out especially if you're traveling away from your home. Yeah, so if you know where they are, if they have a pin on them like a GPS marker, which is helpful, say, okay, he has a marker easy to find we can pull in and the GPS will take us right to where he's buried Judy Johnson in Wilmington, delaware. Great example they were coming back from the shore. I knew he had a marker. That's where he was from. The cemetery was not marked at all. I put on the GPS marker, drove right up to him. If he was not marked like that, there was no way I would have been able to find him. No way. So that is helpful. Is there anybody you found not in the cemetery, so that is helpful.
Speaker 3:Is there anybody you found not in a cemetery?
Speaker 4:there was a cemetery. No, not just yet, but there are times where you've been misled. You know where the name of the cemetery is very similar, or like Uniondale, for example. You have Uniondale. For example, you have Uniondale 1, 2, and 3 right here on the north side. That can be confusing. Oh geez, and Uniondale, which one? There's three Uniondales. Yeah, what? Yep? There's a 1, 2, and 3.
Speaker 3:Yalzer, not a yinzer, explain you are a yalzer.
Speaker 2:Explain why you're a y'all sir. Explain why you're a y'all sir.
Speaker 3:Because I'm from Tennessee and now I live in Pittsburgh.
Speaker 2:He's a y'all. Sir. Can't be a full yinzer, can't be a full y'all.
Speaker 3:So I go with the y'all, sir, because that's how we use y'all. It's the same way you guys use yins.
Speaker 4:Y'all, sir yinzer.
Speaker 3:How can there be three of one place Confusing Less from the south? That's just how they're named.
Speaker 2:There are towns around there Three is unusual there are boroughs and towns around there.
Speaker 3:Thing, one, thing, two.
Speaker 4:Thing three or there's a cemetery that's split, yeah. Or, like Nellie Fox, there's a cemetery in Cooperstown. Okay, here's a cemetery, but the road goes right through it. So what side is he on? You've got to split it, yeah. How do I know where to?
Speaker 2:look.
Speaker 4:I interrupted you, by the way.
Speaker 2:I think I interrupted you the details on the Nelly Fox, why that was so impressive, that gray side. What made it so impressive?
Speaker 4:Well, it, was a big marker.
Speaker 2:It's huge.
Speaker 4:Huge marker, okay, and it was different than other markers that I found Did it have a lot of details. Yes, Okay, details on it, and it was just different from the other flat markers on the ground, so that was like my first cool marker that I saw.
Speaker 2:Was there also a story about Rube Waddell, though in Prospect PA? Why?
Speaker 4:that was so unique.
Speaker 2:Rube Waddell is buried in Texas, by the way, a Hall of Famer former pirate in the early 1900s, like four years with Louisville and Pittsburgh. He was one of the guys that came over from Louisville to Pittsburgh. Barney Dreyfuss right.
Speaker 4:I think he was. Yeah, he was a strange character, a very, very strange character, but he lived in Prospect, so there's a historical marker for him. His house is still standing, which is going to be torn down soon, so that's just. Even though he's not buried here, he's from here. Historical marker here. One guy I found who played for the Grays, smokey Joe Williams. He's in Suitland, maryland near.
Speaker 4:Washington DC. I said, oh, he's an easy stop on the way home. Meanwhile we pulled into a cemetery. We weren't sure if we were in the right cemetery and after walking around the cemetery for almost an hour, I said erica, let's just go like, forget it, I'm you know, the kids are tired, we need to get home. She said no, we are here, we're gonna find don't lie, it's getting dark.
Speaker 3:You're a little nervous.
Speaker 4:So, sure enough, he's right in front of us. I just walked over him. You're always listening to life Jeez. He's in the cemetery, he's in this section. I find him. I look at him in the picture and find a grave Looking at the background. Okay, he's in this section. Where is he? And we must have walked by 10, 15 times.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 4:He's right there, right near our car, where we parked.
Speaker 2:It's almost like a detective story.
Speaker 4:He was smoking.
Speaker 3:Ah yes, no doubt. That's why I'm part of the deal. Hold my cutter.
Speaker 4:Hold my cutter. That can happen a lot too often.
Speaker 3:Do you have?
Speaker 4:any like ghost stories.
Speaker 2:Just to confirm, because most of the time I'm wrong, but in 1899, barney Dreyfus purchased the Pittsburgh National League Club, arranged that trade with the team he previously owned, the Louisville Colonels, and he brought with him Hannes Wagner, fred Clark and Rube Waddell.
Speaker 4:Greatest trade in.
Speaker 2:Pittsburgh history and that led to all the championships.
Speaker 3:Anyway, I'm sorry, that's okay.
Speaker 2:I feel like good trades, good stories. I'd just like to confirm yeah.
Speaker 4:There's Walter Johnson. He's in Rock Hill, maryland, so again another one. When we travel go to Ocean City, maryland, for our vacation let's find a guy, walter Johnson, big train Hall of Famer, one of the first five inducted the original big train.
Speaker 2:We got a big locomotive in our Paul schemes, so you know between Walter Johnson, the Hannes Wagner.
Speaker 4:Christy Matheson, babe Ruth, ty Cobb were the first five. Christy Matheson is in PA also, but I haven't seen Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb yet, so I've seen three out of the five. Christy Matheson is in PA also, but I haven't seen Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb yet, so I've seen three out of the five, do you?
Speaker 3:know where they're buried.
Speaker 4:Of the inaugural class Babe Ruth, new York. Ty Cobb, georgia. Okay, so Walter Johnson. So we went and found him on the way to the shore, got to his grave. His grave's right along the wood line. There's a book, there's balls that people are leaving. My two kids, kogan and Kara, they're just kind of up to no good. They're looking in the woods and they see this crazy creepy doll that's in the woods. That had no reason to be there at all.
Speaker 3:It wasn't walking, was it? No, it wasn't walking, it was a doll.
Speaker 4:Just like in the tree.
Speaker 3:So that was the core.
Speaker 4:So every time we talk about that's how they think of Walter Johnson. Oh, the creepy doll story.
Speaker 3:I bet they have some really good stories. Well, could you imagine a kid? What'd you do in a graveyard when you were a?
Speaker 2:kid Not go yeah.
Speaker 3:I lived there, if I could find one.
Speaker 4:I was there. They always talk about it Stay away. They always say, hey, on the way to the shore can we stop and see if that creepy doll's still there. So Walter Johnson was not the big train.
Speaker 2:Walter Johnson was Creepy Doll yeah, Creepy.
Speaker 4:Doll. No internet for Cy Young.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course that's Creepy Doll, no internet, so that's how you really have more yes exactly.
Speaker 4:So that's how the kids know. Kara, our youngest one, has really helped out and she's adventurous with the graves. Oh okay, she loves it. She's going out with Vince and I oh nice. And has done promo videos of where we are, who the player is.
Speaker 3:Wow, I'm sure it's a blast. I mean, that's an adventure for a kid. Yeah Right, you don't know what you're going to find.
Speaker 4:So she talks, you know. So she's a Philadelphia fan, like I am. She's daddy's girl, are we still alive? Yeah. And so she talks to her guy friends in school and she'll say okay, oh, do you know who Hannes Wagner is? No, do you know who Josh Gibson is? No, do you know who Frank Miller is? Do you know who Pud Gooden is? Do you know who Emmett Bowman is? Wow, no, you call yourself a Pittsburgh fan and you don't know who these guys are.
Speaker 2:That is so great.
Speaker 4:She is aware of the project and what?
Speaker 2:I do.
Speaker 4:It's teaching her. She's on board with it. I always say she's going to be a baseball executive someday how old is she, she's 11.
Speaker 2:That's great.
Speaker 3:Name drop in like no problem. 11, that's great. Oh, what's his name dropping?
Speaker 2:like no problem, yeah, um, that's great stuff, but that's that's the test when she brings her first date home.
Speaker 3:You know, I always think about being uncle mike, from bad boys too, so terrify whoever comes home. Are you gonna give them, like a, a test?
Speaker 4:I thought about it. You knowus Wagner Well she'll have done that already.
Speaker 2:She will have done that already. What about Josh Gibson? No Beat it man.
Speaker 4:Where are they buried?
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, yeah, but she will have already done that, could you imagine?
Speaker 2:By the time they get there.
Speaker 3:She could be smitten. Yeah, she's smitten, she might be smitten.
Speaker 2:The flying Dutchman. He ain't coming to the house, Ain't no chance. She's stepping one foot in the Schuster house. This guy doesn't know about Hannes Wagner.
Speaker 4:I'm taking him to a cemetery. Might be back, I don't know, but we're going to a cemetery.
Speaker 3:I like it. I like it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what an absolute blast man to have you on the show and you said before that you were a big fan, that you loved Hold my Cutter. It's your favorite podcast of all 100%. You're aware by now we just found this out that it's a top 25% listener response podcast around the country and we're thrilled that you joined us.
Speaker 4:Thanks for having me An honor to be here. Appreciate the opportunity.
Speaker 2:Oh, honor's ours.
Speaker 4:We look forward to working with you guys again, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And we're going to go searching for some graves when we leave here and maybe we'll do a live podcast from one of the grave sites, a cemetery. I like it. At night, leonard, did that be all right with you? I'm down, man, let's do it, let's do it. Let's do it. See you next time. On Hold my Cutter.
