No Crown, Still Bossing: Why Vibes, Plants, And Walkabouts Beat PowerPoints

What if leadership wasn’t something granted by a title but something you practice in small, consistent ways that people can feel? We dive into the difference between authority and influence and share concrete moves that build trust, safety, and momentum even when your job title doesn’t say “manager.”

We start with the everyday behaviors that make people want to follow you: integrity that matches your words, outreach that lowers anxiety for new teammates, and presence that replaces transactional check-ins. Then we explore neuroaesthetics—the science of how beauty, pattern, and color shape our nervous system—to explain why plants, natural light, and decluttered spaces lower cognitive load and help teams focus. “Vibes” aren’t fluff; they’re signals of safety that shift mood and performance. From tackling doom piles to curating what your team sees first, we map small environmental changes that pay big dividends.

Culture change doesn’t show up with a pizza party or a single lunch-and-learn. It grows through habits: scheduled walkabouts that make you accessible, questions that remove friction before demanding output, and rituals that tie work to meaning. We also unpack human-centered change management, reframing change as a feeling and a competency. Slow key conversations, offer multiple feedback channels, equip managers with tone and tools—not just talking points—and pair the logic of change with visual cues that calm and clarify. Whether you’re a new contributor or a seasoned leader, these practices help you spark engagement without waiting for permission.

If you’re ready to trade performative leadership for actions people can trust, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a colleague who leads without a title, and leave a review telling us which small habit you’ll start this week.

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Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Transcript

Warm Welcome And Global Shoutouts

Dr. Katie 0:32

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the path to leadership. I'm Dr. Katie.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:36

And I'm Rhonda Jolene.

Dr. Katie 0:38

We are so thrilled to have you back this week. Or to our new listeners, welcome. Absolutely. We love having you. Well, and I think I've mentioned this in a previous podcast. We know Germany is coming in strong. We have Sweden that's coming in strong. Yes. So we love our international listeners. So thank you, whoever, wherever in the world you are. Thanks for listening.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:04

Absolutely. It's kind of like the Olympics. What kind of countries are going to show up today?

Dr. Katie 1:11

Yes, exactly. Exactly. Well, and we challenge ourselves that we were going to um learn how to say hello in some of the languages.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:18

So we're gonna have to oh yeah, we're gonna have to do that. We'll make good on that. Yes.

Dr. Katie 1:23

Yeah, yeah. I do know I will Gutentag, which is German, spent some time in Germany with my family. My dad was in the military, so Gutentag in Frankfurt. Yes.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:34

If if France and Italy show up, I got it.

unknown 1:38

Okay.

Leading Without Formal Authority

Dr. Katie 1:41

Okay, good. Well, and I uh we had so much fun recording our last podcast. We talked about questions that we were getting from people, conversations that we were having, and we had other questions that we wanted to keep going on. So we we thought we would do a second podcast on it.

Rhonda Jolyean 2:02

Yes. And I have a question to start out with because this is a question I used to get a lot when I mentored people at my last formal corporate job. And it's one I'm passionate about as a person who was never in a formal leadership position and never wanted to be. So, Katie, how do I lead well when I don't have a title or formal authority? What do you think?

Dr. Katie 2:34

Yeah. Well, and I love this question because we talk about it all the time. Like you don't need a title to be a leader. And there's a lot of people with titles that aren't leaders. Uh, and so this is such a great conversation to have. And really, leadership is about influence other than position. You know, when we talk about position, I see that more as a manager as opposed to actual leadership. You may be a supervisor or a manager or a director or a VP. And so to me, that's a that's a title. And leadership is really how you make people feel, how you impact them and influence them, how they want to, if they want to follow you. There's this great, great quote that I share all the time that if you think you're a leader and you turn around and no one's following you, you're just going for a walk.

unknown 3:27

I like that.

Influence Versus Position

Dr. Katie 3:29

And it's so true because it's really that how we how we interact with people, what happens, and and there's a lot of people in this world, we talk about this on a previous podcast, that are not made to have a people leader title. They either don't have the desire to, or it's they're not in a career path that will take them that way. But you can still be a super strong leader and have influence and create an environment of safety where people feel psychologically safe. They feel a part of the group, they feel connected. My daughter, who plays golf down at Pittsburgh State University, they just got a new girl on the team at semester break. And coach had introduced the girl to the team in their group chat. And I was so proud of my daughter because she was like, I feel like I need to send her a side note because I came into the university as a transfer student. So I know how hard it is to transfer. And I know, and so Abby did such a beautiful job taking the lead of sending a side note to this young girl and welcoming to her team and everything. And the girl like immediate called her, was like, Thanks so much. I got some questions for you. Oh yes. Um, and it, you know, Abby doesn't have a formal title on the team. I mean, she is one of the oldest on the team, but she's not a captain. They don't do captains in golf. Right. But you can do it at you can do it on your golf team, you can do it in your mom's group, you can do it in, you know, wherever it is. You don't have to have a title to really do it to to um be that leader. And really, for me, behavior is what builds the credibility and influence. It's, you know, are you walking that walk or you behave in the way you say you are? We we know we know people that call themselves leaders and they'll stand on stage or stand in front of a room or they'll stand on LinkedIn and and talk about what a great leader they are. And then we know when the lights go off or when they are not on a platform, their behaviors do not model that. And it's disappointing.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:36

Right. Integrity or lack thereof. I love the word influence. I think that that's something that people need to use more of when it comes to leadership. Obviously, it's overused with uh influencer in social media, and we have used that in the incorrect term or in the incorrect way. But I love using it in terms of leader because I I think the old school way of looking at someone as a leader is very authoritative, very uh staunch, if you will. And if you think about influence, that opens up so many possibilities, like the Abbey story, like just uh influencing your peers, or even managing up, managing down, like we've discussed before, that people talk about a lot. And that just the word influence has an ease to it that I can accomplish as a person with or without that formal title. So thank you for mentioning that. That's a great word.

Dr. Katie 6:50

Yeah, I'm glad you like it. Well, and it just as you're talking, it's you know, to me, a really great leader does not have to say, I'm a leader, like it's a verb, not a noun. Yeah, it really is. It's the actions that you that you put in place and not the like label that you put on yourself. So I think there's great power in that. So well, and you know, as as we're recording this, I'm looking outside and it is absolutely gorgeous outside. And so it makes me think, right, finally, all the work you do and everything you talk about. And we recently did a podcast where we talked about all of your work. Everyone needs to go back and listen to it. It's the it's the February 10th podcast that you'll see come out. But it it had me thinking ever since we had that conversation, based on what you know, you research the work you do. Why do I feel calmer and more focused after walking, whether it be through a museum or rearranging the room or you know, just something beautiful? Why why does that happen?

Neuroaesthetics And Calm At Work

Rhonda Jolyean 7:55

Right. Well, when we discuss neuroaesthetics at length during that podcast, which is something I'm super passionate about, and also that leaders can have as a new tool in their toolkit for helping their teams feel more psychologically safe. The reason that people get and by the way, I get so many questions about this because people are searching for ways outside of traditional thinking and traditional tools to help their uh employees feel uh more engaged and calmer, if you will, in today's constant disruption and chaos. The reason that we feel calmer or that you feel calmer, Katie, I know that you play with fidget toys and that you like to rearrange your office sometimes, is that our beauty and in every sense of the word signals safety to our nervous system and reinforces our or reduces the cognitive load that we have. And so if you think about this, our brain responds to pattern and color and meaning before our logic kicks in. And there's actually great statistics around this. So 90% of information transmitted to our brain is visual. So that means that our perception leads our cognition and it's not the other way around. So visual thinking is very, very important. And that's why our environments mean so much. That's why I encourage leaders to have plants, that's why museums and beautifully designed spaces affect our mood. We talk about vibes a ton. Vibes are important, not just to just Gen Z. Vibes are important to employees. And so when you have moments outside or see a beautiful sunrise or rearrange things in a very aesthetic way, these moments help regulate stress and actually reduce or restore a sense of coherence for us. That's why you feel calmer.

Dr. Katie 10:14

Yeah, that's so interesting. I just think too, as I'm staring at myself in in the camera, and behind me, my husband got me this big, beautiful green bookcase, which brings me such joy every time I see it. But then my friend's books are on there, which makes me happy. Like it's it's those things, and there's sometimes my office will just become this clutter fest. And I'm like, I just I can't do anything more until I get it organized and clean and you know it together. And it makes me think too. I was talking to someone who has ADHD, and I have a bit of this, and I had never heard the term doom piles before. Have you ever heard doom piles? I had never heard of that, yeah, but it makes sense. And this person, I kind of helped them get some things organized, and it was like you could just the weight of it all, and it was this these doom piles had started, and then they didn't know how to get out of it. And it was like, okay, let's just make it pretty and then we'll we'll get back to it.

Rhonda Jolyean 11:15

Yes. I mean, we don't take these the vibes or our environment seriously as contributing to our professional life until we remember how much it affects our personal life. So that's why the rise of professional organizers has become a thing. And so if we apply that same method to work, if we apply, you know, if we have doom piles around our office, a ton of people have messy desks. And whereas that does work for some people, it really doesn't work for the team around them. So again, having these beautiful spaces works for people. Speaking of habits that we can change as leaders, and again, habits can be small, they can be big. One habit that we can take is changing our environment, small steps, maybe steps at a time with neuroesthetics. But I know you get a lot of questions about culture changes and habits. So, what's one leadership habit that sounds small but actually changes culture over time?

Environments, Vibes, And Doom Piles

Dr. Katie 12:26

Yeah, I I think that is such an interesting question because when we talk about culture, it's not something like there's no easy button. Like we can't just flip a switch and change things. And so it does take those small habits, those small pieces. We're not gonna change something overnight. I always hate it when someone wants to hire someone to come in and do a lunch and learn and think that that's just gonna make everything, everything better. Like everyone's got pizza party, like seriously, we've we've talked about that. It just doesn't work that way. And so as leaders, we've got to have these habits. We've got to create, you know, you talked about previous last week's podcast about communic communication, how we effectively communicate with people. That's wildly important. I think as leaders, making sure that we have time for people, we're always so quote unquote busy, we're overscheduled, and so people can't come to us and have conversations and and we get into this very transactional workplace, and it's building those relationships that are so critically important. For me, I think the thing that truly changes culture is having deep relationships in an organization, meaning that people care about each other. It goes back to the me versus we conversation we've had. The more that I know you and understand you, the more I'm gonna root for you and and set you up for success. And so, as leaders, as people leaders, we've got to really create an environment where people can make connections, they can get to know each other, we can get to know them. I I will die on this hill that you know, the thing that people care about most in the workplace is knowing that someone cares about them. It's when we go into work and we're treated as a number and we're treated as the grind and we're not appreciated and we're not valued and we're not cared for, is when we're more likely to be disengaged and burned out and leave. And so I think as leaders, creating those habits and and they can be very basic habits, such as I had a client where all of the people leaders just sat in their offices all day and never came out of their office. Walk around the office multiple times a day. When I was the HR director at a casino, I would walk the floor four times a day, and I had it in my calendar to remind myself to get up and walk the floor because employees weren't passing my office on a regular basis. So I had to go to them, and there'd be times I would be swamped, and then on their break, they would come by my office and be like, I just didn't know if you were here today. And it's it's those, those little things, it's creating those relationships and and those behaviors that that you know will will connect you to your people, will shift the culture, will shift things. When people know that you care about them, they're willing to give just a little more. They're willing to, you know, come in a little bit more often, more engaged, things like that. So I think it's really making those connections and building those relationships, showing people that you you care about them and not just the the work that they're doing.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:46

Absolutely. That gives them a reason to come in too, to have something to look forward to or accountability, so many reasons to even come in.

Dr. Katie 15:57

Yeah, yeah. Well, and so my last question for you, I think just ties everything we talked about in this episode and last episode together so beautifully. Because we started with you talking about change, and I hear this all the time. I know you hear this all the time, that my company is is thinks that they're doing change well or they think that they're doing something well, but they don't really invest in the right resources. So, how can a leader bring transformation knowledge to their team? How can they help with this?

Small Habits That Shift Culture

Rhonda Jolyean 16:32

Well, talk about just doing a lunch and learn and thinking everything's fine. Right. How many how many times do I hear that where middle managers say to me, I feel like my leadership thinks that they can do a lunch and learn or send out a PowerPoint and everything is going to change, as if my employees are gonna know that or change, the culture's gonna change, everything's gonna be fine. No, that is not doing change. And again, this doesn't have to be some revolutionary. We are not trying to recreate the wheel here when as a leader, you don't have to take this on as another large role, but having change as a competency as a leader is huge. You need to have these as a competency. So you need to slow down conversations, not speeding them up because time is absolutely a resource. And people talk about creating that relationship. People want to know that they are important, they are meaningful, they have meaningful work, and that you care about their time, them as a person. And because there's constant disruption and change happening, you care about them and that you're gonna be there for them. And again, we talked a little bit about this in the last episode. We need to normalize talking about how change feels, not just what needs to happen. So talking about the uncertainty, talking about how you feel as a leader. Are you unsure? Are you a little fearful? Are you, you know, you have to open up and be vulnerable, and then ask your employees, provide different uh vehicles for them to give feedback about upcoming changes, whether that be anonymous surveys, communication channels, informal, you walking around. I love that as an HR leader walking around the floor and just having casual conversations. It doesn't have to be super formal, it can be very informal. And then you can introduce small tangible practices that support this reflection and clarity and alignment, especially things like that feedback channel or you can have uh, yes, you can have lunch and learns. But when you have lunch and learns, you have to follow it up with here's what happened, here's what's going to happen, and then you have to have support around those lunch and learns. So think about what needs to happen next. Is it an informal conversation with every employee? Is it cascading messages to middle managers to then say, things are still uncertain, here's some talking points, and then here's how you deliver those talking points because it can't just be talking points and then you should know what to do with these. We're still trying to build up the capabilities. And if you need help, that's what you know, outside consultants are for, that's what your change management team is for. And again, you have to start thinking about change as a feeling process, a human-centered process and not just a project management process, especially in today's world of constant disruption and chaos. And going back to what we just spoke about with how museums and art and music make people feel calmer. How can you interject some of those small tangible neuroaesthetic principles in to help things feel calmer, more psychologically safe, and to help a little bit with celebration because that will help it be more human-centered change and that will help with your culture change overall?

Dr. Katie 20:37

Yeah. Oh, I love you talking about, you know, it the feeling and the human and change because I've seen this my whole career. You know, people think, well, we're just changing a quick process, but it disrupts a human, and we've got to figure that that out. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yep, absolutely. Um, we should do a podcast on change management and communication. That would be that would be a powerful one because I get asked that all the time, and I'm sure you, you know, you do too. And you do so much work in it. I I do, yeah, I mean, mine is not necessarily change management, mine is more helping them change behaviors, which then adds to the change management. But yours is that change management.

Rhonda Jolyean 21:21

Yeah, but we gotta do a blended of the behavior change, because that's the where the starting point is, and then the psychological safety plus the how do you have and you know, effective communication that's human-centered around it.

Dr. Katie 21:38

Yeah, yeah, such good conversations. Well, everyone tune in because we're gonna have that conversation. We also have some fun guests coming up. We've got some people that reached out to us, some people we're reaching out to. And so, as much as we love talking to each other, we're excited to bring uh a third person into the conversation every once in a while.

Rhonda Jolyean 21:57

Mixing it up a little bit.

Dr. Katie 21:59

Yep, yep. Well, thank you so much for everyone joining us on this week's path to leadership. Hopefully, you got some good little nuggets out of this. And and we talk about this all the time. Leadership is not having all of the answers. It's we're growing and we're developing. And so we would love for the questions to continue, whether you send it through a formal channel or maybe it's just conversations that we're having with people.

Rhonda Jolyean 22:25

Yes, please let us know what questions you have. We're happy to answer, we're happy to. Answer it on the podcast or informally. And I love that idea that leadership is about vulnerability. It's about having integrity and it's about stating when you don't know something. Yeah.

Dr. Katie 22:46

Yeah. It's very powerful. So well, thanks for all of the nuggets today. I can't wait to hear people's thoughts on this. Me too. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you for joining us on this week's Path to Leadership. Talk to you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.