Whose Trance Is Running Your Leadership

Leadership gets messy the moment we pretend to be someone we’re not. That’s why we invited evolutionary astrologer Jason Dilts to help us use astrology as a leadership tool, not for fortune telling, but for self awareness, communication, and growth you can actually apply at work.

We start with the basics that most people never get beyond: your Sun sign is only one piece. Jason breaks down the Big Three of a birth chart: Sun (identity and expression), Rising (your instinctive operating system and how others experience you), and Moon (your emotional landscape and what creates safety). From there, we connect the chart to leadership development and real workplace dynamics including how Mercury placements shape communication style, how different houses point to career visibility and leadership, and why two “Capricorns” can still lead in totally different ways.

Then we zoom out to the bigger shift many teams are feeling right now. Jason frames the Age of Aquarius as a move away from command and control toward empowerment, authenticity, and community. We also explore generational astrology through Pluto placements, why younger generations are challenging old power structures, and how leaders can respond without falling into judgment or fear. If you’ve been curious but skeptical, we talk about why pop horoscopes turn smart people off, and how to explore astrology in a grounded way through your chart and current transits, including what Mercury retrograde is really inviting you to do.

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Transcript

Welcome And Why Astrology

Dr. Katie 0:00

Hi everyone. Welcome back to the Pact to Leadership. I'm Dr. Katie and I'm Rhonda Jolene. And we are so thrilled to have you with us today. And we usually do a little small talk and we do want to welcome all of our listeners and all this stuff, but I don't even know that we need to do small talk because I'm so excited for this conversation today.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:21

Well, I was talking beforehand about how today has been a dreary day. I've been a little bit unmotivated, but honestly, this was the thing I was looking forward to the most today. If you listen to our last podcast, I kind of teased this up at the end. We are having more guests on, and I am thrilled, thrilled to be able to welcome this guest. This person is a person that I have not only been honored to get to work with before, but also I have seen this person bloom and blossom and change his career and become this philosopher, astrologer. He has a background in corporate America, in nonprofit, in politics. He is a writer, he is a practicer of Kundalini yoga. He is also someone who I admire and I am so blessed to call my friend. Please welcome to the podcast, and he will be helping us walk through astrology and leadership. Jason Deltz.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

Thank you, Rob. That is the most heartwarming opener someone can give me from one of the most heart-opened individuals that I know. I'm very, very grateful to be here, to be part of this creation that you have helped create. We worked together many years ago at another different point in our life. And it's been so cool to watch you blossom into your own creative potential since that time. So I'm delighted to be here today.

Rhonda Jolyean 2:03

Well, thank you, friend. I mean, it's too full for me because I get to see your face and spend time with you, but then also you do really, really cool things. And I get to introduce you to our audience and introduce you truly to Katie. So if a lot of our audience might be wondering, what are y'all doing having an astrologer on your readership podcast? But if you think back, we did Katie and I did a huge and a well-received episode about personal assessments and personal development. And we went through everything from Enneagram, Myers Briggs, Disc, Clifton Strengths. And one of the things that we talked about was astrology and zodiac signs. And we got a lot of feedback about how that was well received. People

Birth Charts As Growth Roadmaps

Rhonda Jolyean 3:00

wanted to know more about that. And in tons of conversations about the podcast or just professional life, I hear all of the time people saying, Oh, well, it's because I'm a Leo. Oh, it's because I'm a Capricorn. And, you know, Katie and I both know that we are quote unquote Capricorns. Now, I've dove into astrology and have, I'm lucky enough to know Jason. So I have gone deeper into astrology than most people have. But I think a lot of our audience, and Katie included, know surface level about astrology. And most people don't know how our astrology and our signs can actually tell us, give us self-awareness about some of our leadership strengths. So that is why I wanted to invite Jason on. And he's going to bring us a lot of information, not only about Katie and I, but how you, as our listeners, can perhaps use astrology for your professional and personal life.

Dr. Katie 4:06

Yeah. Rhonda, I think you laid it out so beautifully. And I, it's funny because, and and Jason's gonna talk about he did my chart and he sent it to me. I was like, oh, that's so pretty. I don't know what that means. But so we're gonna talk about that and what that means. But I've always been a firm believer as a leader. There's times where I'm just like, okay, universe, what am I supposed to do? And there's times that I have sat in stillness and just said, okay, what is my next step? What am I supposed to hear? What am I supposed to go? And so I think I have this safety of being comfortable with it. And I'm not afraid of the woo-woo, but also like to your point, there's massive leadership implementation implement it is too late in the day. Massive leadership implementation, never mind. I I'm I'm a doctor of education, not of logistics. Oh, I'm tired. But not just with individuals, but with teams too, which we're gonna talk about. So I can't wait. So I'm gonna I'm gonna be a fly on the wall for most of this, but I'm gonna ask a lot of questions when I don't understand. But Rana, I'm gonna let you and Jason lead us through this.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:19

Yeah. So Jason, can you kind of walk through what because you do this professionally? Can you walk through what the first thing you did was when I asked you to be on and to quote unquote read Katie and Minds charts?

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Yeah. So the first thing I'll say, just to kind of validate what you were saying, there's a lot of different personality assessments that you can do. And you've talked about this. The astrology chart, you can look at it like that because it does tell you a lot about your personality, about the personality of the person that you're working with, but it tells you so much more. What astrology really is, and and I am an evolutionary astrologer, which means I am focused on how a person can grow and evolve. Astrology is a roadmap that tells you how you want to grow and how you want to evolve, and then what some of the challenges and what some of the benefits and what some of the obstacles and then what some of the gifts are going to be as you go about doing that. Now, I take the perspective that we plotted all of this out before we came here, and then we're living our life to achieve it and attain it. And you know, whether you have that framework or not is kind of irrelevant. But the the astrology chart, your birth chart is really the roadmap for your life. And then when you understand that, then you understand what your power is, you understand to how to activate that power. So to answer the question, when I get when someone says, Hey, I want to do a reading with you, can you do my chart? I go to my trustee Astro Gold software, I input the the birthday, the time of birth, the city state, or the country state, and then up this diagram with lots with 12, it's a circle, but there's 12 houses in this circle, and there's glyphs for planets, asteroids, and glyphs for signs. And depending on where all of those different signs are placed, that tells me a lot about you as an individual. You talked about being Capricorn, both of you are Capricorn. What that means is that you are Capricorn sun. When somebody says, What are you? and they're asking what are you in the astrological context, what they're really asking for is what is your sun sign. There's three real identifiers though that tell you who this current incarnated person actually is. One of them is the sun sign, which is the ego. That's how you are expressing your identity in this life. But the rising sign is actually just as, if not more, important because the rising sign, and you actually are both Libra rising. The rising sign, yeah, I didn't know if you knew that. You both have the same rising sign. Yeah. The rising sign is how you instinctually operate in the world. And a lot of times it's what people perceive you as being. So it's it's our default operating system. Libra is all about wanting to find balance and taking the other person's perspective into account whenever they make decisions. So both of you instinctually move through the world looking at the other person and making decisions and operating from that perspective. And then we have our moon. So it's your sun, your rising, and then the moon. And the moon is your emotions. The moon is your emotional landscape, and it's also where you find comfort and safety. And the moon sign is going to be the sun sign is dependent on the season that we're in. This it's about a you know, it's about a month. You know, we have 12, we have 12 months, so that the sun is in a sign for a month. The rising sign depends on the time of day that you were born, and then the moon moves very fast. So the moon doesn't spend very long in the sign. So the moon's there for a day and a half, two days. So it's it's highly individualistic. That's your core ego identity. That's you in this life. But what I'm really interested in, because I am an evolutionary astrologer, is your soul and the desire of the soul, because it that tells me what you came here to do. And if you're a leader, you came in here with a mission. So Pluto is the soul. Where your Pluto placement is by house and by sign tells me what your soul mission is. And then I look at the lunar nodes. There's a north node and a south node. The north node tells the direction that you want to go in, the south node tells the gift that you came in here with, or maybe the karma, maybe the heaviness that you came here to evolve out of. And that tells me the roadmap. That can be a lot.

Rhonda Jolyean 9:37

That is so cool. Now, again, for listeners, that is that's a lot of verbiage, especially for people if they're like, huh, I just knew that I was a Leo or whatever. This is why astrologers exist, like Jason. They can help you read these maps. I love also that you take the evolutionary approach and that you don't believe that people are just stuck. You believe that people can move towards paths. That is, I think, a very personal development outlook on it, which leaders absolutely need to take into consideration. And again, if people don't understand all of this verbiage at the end and in our show notes, we're going to give everybody places not only where they can find you and your resources, but things that you also recommend to start just slowly getting into astrology.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Yeah. Yeah. And I think another point I want to make is I do not take a fated view of astrology. I don't take a future predicting view of astrology. You can certainly predict things that will happen with it, but nothing is said and stone. You are the decider of your own destiny. So if you have a chart where there's challenges with maybe making money or finding love or maybe being a leader, you can do work on yourself and then you can overcome those challenges. And when I look at a birth chart, I can tell you how you can do that. Well, I love that.

Dr. Katie 11:00

Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. And it's so funny because I think self-awareness is really one of the biggest challenges, not just for leaders, but for people.

Sun Moon Rising And Leadership

Dr. Katie 11:10

And so to have this kind of background knowledge to say, okay, here's your self-awareness. Now what are you going to do about it?

SPEAKER_00 11:17

Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I think they should be teaching astrology in grade school and in middle school and in high school and college because they should be teaching you how to be the best version of yourself possible.

Dr. Katie 11:27

Yes. Oh yeah. Well, amen. That is gold.

SPEAKER_00 11:32

But there's an agenda to keep you from being your highest best self and that would like to keep you locked, controlled, manipulated, and at the behest of somebody else's trance. You want to be in your own trance. And when you understand your own power, whether that's through astrology or through something else, then you understand how to really activate your mission and be the best leader that you can be. Because we we only have strong leaders if we have strong individuals.

Dr. Katie 11:54

Yeah, yeah. It it's so funny. I said I'm gonna just be a fly on the wall, but I'm not because my LinkedIn post I made today was leaders aren't bad, they're just fake. And it's really that people are trying to be someone they're not, they're trying to show up the way they think other people want them to be, as opposed to who they're supposed to be, which is their authentic true self.

SPEAKER_00 12:18

Most of us are in someone else's trance and we don't even realize it. And one thing my teacher always said is that your reality is a trance, it's a trance of your own making, or it's a trance of somebody else's making. So the question you always want to be asking yourself and ask yourself this every day whose trance am I in? Am I listening to what somebody else is telling me I am? Am I listening to and being affected by the things that are going on in the world, or am I in my own power and am I deciding what I want to be? And that's exactly what you talked about. You know, it's like, yeah, if you want to be a strong leader, you've got to have your own way. You can't just copy somebody else. Yeah. Oh, I love it.

Rhonda Jolyean 12:53

I really like that. That kind of leads into we're gonna do a series about what stories am I telling myself. Yes, which is the exact same. And oh, yes, that's a great. I like that the trance word is very evokes a lot of oh, what am I gonna do about this to get myself out of it?

SPEAKER_00 13:10

It we're in the age of authenticity. The only people who are gonna be able to lead in in this age and this new era we're coming into are people who are real because people can see through phony, and that's why so many things are crumbling. That's why your politics is falling apart right now, because there's so many people that are phony and that are just copying and they're just reading a script, and we're done with that.

Dr. Katie 13:30

Yeah, yeah, thank goodness.

unknown 13:32

Yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 13:34

So, okay, so one thing that we were talking about with listeners in the last podcast is Katie and I are quote unquote Capricorns. So we're Capricorn sons, and then you just told us a new piece of information, which is that we are both Libra rising. Now, I knew that I was Libra rising, and I've told you before that I constantly feel pulled between my Capricorn self and my Libra self. I think it's interesting that Katie and I are both of those things because we're obviously very different people. Now, what would you say when people have a leader and a team member? Like if Katie was my leader and I'm the team member and we have similar signs, but we maybe butt heads or we don't get along as well. What is the factor that maybe is keeping Katie and I different? Because we get along, but we definitely operate differently, Katie and I do.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, that has to do with the whole rest of the chart and then how you animate and activate each other. You know, your moon sign is how you relate emotionally. Yours is in Scorpio, Katie. Yours is in your tenth house in Cancer. So the they're both water signs, but Scorpio has an intensity to it, Cancer has more of a feeling careness to it. Oh, that's one the other thing is where where where your mercury signs are, because Mercury is how we communicate in astrology. Mercury is the archetype of the winged messenger of the gods. Mercury is also the closest planet to the sun, and it's the most able to be observed historically, or has been the most able to be observed historically. So it's always been associated with messages with communication. Where you have Mercury in your house tells you how you're going to communicate. And let me just see for you, Katie. Your Mercury is in your fifth house, which is all about creative expression and how you express yourself creatively. And Rhonda, yours is in your fourth house, which is more about home and family and nurturing and like you know how you're kind of communicating really more on a subtle level. So it's all those things interacting with each other. I am very intrigued by Katie's. No offense, Katie.

Rhonda Jolyean 15:55

Intrigued by intrigued by which by which one that she, I mean, aren't are you surprised by that, Katie, too? That you well dress creatively.

Dr. Katie 16:06

Well, it's so funny. Before I met you, Rhonda, I would be like, You're kidding me. Like, creatively, no, I'm not an artist, I'm not a whatever. But what you have taught me is I am wildly creative. I am an author, I am a keynote, I am a and what's so funny thinking about from the creative standpoint is I always tell people, like, I can't read a script from a stage, I can't, I can. It's very challenging for me. Like I keep getting asked about my audiobook, and I'm I really struggle with a scripted reading out loud, and it's because I think I I love to pull stories and I love to tell stories and I love to tie things together and I love to connect with the audience. And so, yes, a year ago I would have told you I'm not creative. Now I'm like, yeah, yeah, it makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

But you have a podcast that by its very definition is pretty Mercury is in the sign of Aquarius, Aquarius is technology. So anytime you see somebody with Mercury in the sign of Aquarius in their natal chart, this is somebody who is going to be able to communicate well with whatever the technological advancement of the time is. And right now, if you have a message that you want to get out, if you have some kind of creative thought that you want to share, podcasting is one of the best forms to do it.

Rhonda Jolyean 17:24

Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, Katie is always on top of everything, technologically speaking. She's always willing to try new stuff. I would say absolutely, yes, Katie, you are right. I believe that everyone is creative. I guess I wasn't thinking in the way I was honestly thinking in the way I tell people not to think, which is communicating creatively would be like expressive art, but you are right. Like you among you before most people, you have two books, you have a podcast, you have an expansive website, you have so much that that makes sense, that it really does.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

The other thing to keep in mind with like, okay, we're both Capricorn, but we're both very different. Well, why is that? That some of that has to do with the house that your son is in. Like,

Authenticity And Getting Out Of Trance

SPEAKER_00 18:10

I'll say for both of you, you know, it's the same core drive, but there's a different strategy. You're both builders. Capricorn is the sign that wants to create something real, something that's lasting, something that's meaningful. But then how you go about doing it's different. Like for you, Rhonda, you've got your Capricorn son in the third house. So that's leading through strategy, that's communication, that's thoughtful execution because the third house is the mind. So there's gonna be more of a measured more intentionality around that. Katie, you've got it in the fourth. So that's gonna be building strong foundation, that's gonna be creating something that feels secure, sustainable. There's gonna be more emotional anchor to that. It's the same sign, but it's different expressions because it's in two different houses.

Rhonda Jolyean 18:54

That actually makes sense.

unknown 18:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And the houses, to put this in some kind of like real speak for people, the houses are kind of like the where, like, where in my life is this happening?

Rhonda Jolyean 19:05

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 19:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So then the planets are like when the sun's right.

Rhonda Jolyean 19:17

So then if somebody is saying, okay, so I know the first thing that you know, even before I met you, Jason, like or that I before I knew you were into astrology, I would say, What should I do with my life career-wise, you know, with astrology? So what can you tell people about that in their charts?

SPEAKER_00 19:40

Yeah, where would people look? Yeah, if you want to understand what you're supposed to be doing with the public, i.e., your career, you want to look at the 10th house, what we call the mid-heaven. So that's at the top of the chart. And the sign that's on that mid-heaven, which for both of you is the sign of cancer, because you have the same rising sign, you have almost identical houses in your chart. What's good, and then any placements in that 10th house is gonna tell you a lot about what that public destiny is. And then aspects of that, let's say that you have a planet that's opposite that, that's gonna tell you a lot about what that is. But the other thing that's gonna tell you really what it is, like how you get to doing that, is going back to what I said at the beginning. Pluto is the soul's desire to grow and evolve. So understanding by house and by sun where your Pluto placement is, and then understanding your nodes, understanding the direction that you're coming out of and the direction that you want to move toward. And a lot of times you're gonna know this without knowing the language of astrology because you we all have intuition, whether you're aware of it or not. We all have a desire, we all have things that we know hold us back, and we all have things that we know we want to gravitate toward. Now, going toward those things may seem impossible. The thing that's holding us back may seem like the heaviest anchor, and the deepest desire we have may seem like we can never realize it. All of that is a story, all of that is a trance. When you understand astrology, you understand that you have the power to unshackle yourself from anything, and you have the power to manifest any kind of dream, any kind of reality that you want. And I have literally done this. Rhonda knew me when I lived in Kansas. I was, you know, ridiculously in debt. I worked at a nonprofit making no money, and I just thought I would never leave this little small town. And I live a very different, very abundant life in California today.

Dr. Katie 21:33

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 21:34

And you too can do this or anything else that you want.

Dr. Katie 21:38

Yeah. Well, and I think that's such an important message is that while while, like I said at the beginning, like I love to listen to the universe. Like, what am I supposed to be doing? It's the noise in our head, or it's the noise around us that is that self limiting that we're not listening to the path, or we're not listening to, you know, where our inner Energies are taking us.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Yeah. Most of us know what we're supposed to do. A lot. I always get the question like, what is my destiny? Am I supposed to be a teacher? Am I supposed to be an artist? Am I supposed to be a whatever? And usually the answer is yes, because you just volunteered that. That's what you really want to do. Why do you want to do that? Because your soul desires it. Like you may not have an awareness that that's what it is, but that's where it's coming from. So then what are the practical steps to get there? How do you overcome all the obstacles? Well, that's where knowing astrology can be helpful.

Dr. Katie 22:29

Yeah. That is that is fascinating. And it's interesting when I work with leaders. One of the first things I have them do is write a leadership philosophy. Who are they on their best day and who they're striving to be on the days that are not as easy? And like they come up with their definition of success. And so it's so fascinating because I always tell people my definition of success is leaving people better than I found them. Whether that's small or big, you know, it's it's how can I leave a meaningful impact on people? And and so listening to you even just talk a little bit about my chart, it feels very aligned.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah. Well, and I think too, understanding, and I'm sure you both see this a lot, leadership is changing. And what it means to be a successful leader is very different today than it was even 10 years ago. That's because times are changing. You know, we're entering a new age. We we have and we have exited the age of Pisces. We're now in the age of Aquarius. That sounds very woo-woo and esoteric, but it's real. If you want to know what that means, just turn on the news and watch the world fall apart. What it means to be alive when the age is turned is that everything, all the touchstones, all the guardrails, those all come off. All the old ways fall and the new ways have to be built. And what you are doing is you're helping people see what it means to be a leader in the new age, in the age of Aquarius. And Aquarius is all about bringing people together. Aquarius isn't about a top-down leadership structure. That's where we've been out of. Aquarius isn't about the savior is outside of you, the leader is outside of you, worship the savior, bow to the king. Aquarius is you are the leader, you are the one who's going to fight the way. So the job of a leader today is to empower everybody around him or her to be the best version of themselves that they can be so that everybody gets lifted up, not just the person on the top. That's the biggest shift that we're experiencing.

Dr. Katie 24:22

That gives me chills. And I mean, I'm on the verge of tears because this is what I have been screaming for almost a year now, which is the old school leadership, the old, you know, command and control, the old, you know, stand on stage and scream inspiration and then walk off stage and not be it. We got to get rid of that. And people are saying all these negative things about the younger generations, but it feels like they're just in line, aligned with what's supposed to be happening, and we've got to get better.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

You know, talked about Pluto. Pluto is what we call a generational planet, it spends about 20 years in a sign. So you just talked about the Pluto generations. You're talking about the Pluto Scorpio generation, the Pluto Sagittarius generation, and now we're starting to get the Pluto Capricorn generation and we'll soon be entering the workforce. Those are generations that are not putting up with the power structures as it was. Pluto Scorpio very much wants to expose all of the power inequalities. That's roughly the that that's roughly the millennial generation. Then when we talk about the the Pluto in Sagittarius, that's that's the Gen Z. That's the people that are speaking truth to power. And maybe sometimes they go a little overboard and they go a little too much with the woke or a little too much with the right-wing nationalism

Team Dynamics Through Houses

SPEAKER_00 25:40

stuff, but they're doing it out of a place of wanting to speak truth with a capital T. And now we've got these kids that were born, you know, roughly around 2010 to 2023. As they're entering the workforce, this is the Pluto Capricorn generation. They're literally going to be the architects of this new world, of this new workforce that you're talking about. And we need leaders who can understand that they cannot keep operating in the same way. They have to change, they have to adjust, or AI will probably take their jobs. Because here's the thing: we're living in a world where we're gonna have to make a choice whether we want robots to be taking over our lives, or whether we have something new and original to offer to humanity. And the people that have something new and original will be the people who maintain a sense of a thriving life, and the people that don't are gonna get left behind.

Rhonda Jolyean 26:28

Oh yeah. I mean, Katie and I had a huge conversation about generations at work, and we got super passionate about it, and this is exactly what you are talking about. And I think putting it into those categories makes so much sense. And even as you are describing it, me knowing some of these signs that you're talking about, the descriptions match perfectly. I mean, uh, that's this is your profession, so I get that, but translating it to people, I would say that I'm an intermediate knowledge, have intermediate knowledge of astrology. And so I think describing it in that way is really interesting. Katie, were you able to follow that? Yeah, like with uh even the description. Yeah. Yeah, I totally get it.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

The thing to understand about Pluto is because it takes such a long time, you know, Pluto is it's the furthest, well, it's the furthest planet from the sun that is no longer a planet because it was reclassified as a planetoid in 2006, actually dwarf planet in 2006. But it's it it it it takes 250 years to go around the sun. So it spends about 20 years in a sign. And if you want to understand a generation, rather than the kind of random age cohorts that we say are millennials or Gen Xers, etc., look at where someone's Pluto is, and that's gonna tell you more about them as like and what their generational imprint is than anything else. Because we all came here with an individual mission, but then we came here with a collective mission, and Pluto is the mark of that collective mission. Like the three of us here, we're Pluto Libra. We all have it at different degrees in our church, but we all are Pluto Libra. That's part of the generation that came here to help harmonize relationships between people. We were the generation that like was more okay with interracial marriages, we were the generation that was more open to different people with different perspectives. We're the generation that was, you know, cool with gay people getting married. That was all part of Pluto Libra's mission. And now what we have to understand is every generation has a different mission. So rather than getting all judgmental and like, oh, these you know, crazy Gen Z kids, you know, to understand they have a completely different mission from you, and they're gonna perceive reality completely different from you and learn from that.

Dr. Katie 28:42

Yeah, yeah. It's so it that is so fascinating, and it's so funny because one of my taglines is common sense isn't common, right? We're all different, we all grew up different, we've all been exposed different. But it makes sense when you talk about these generational missions, because when I talk about generations and how they're different, it's all about exposure, right? It's all about, but but now what you're teaching me is it's deeper, it's so much deeper than that, which is really pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Every generation has a larger assignment, and then we're just individuals synthesizing ourselves into what that big assignment is all about.

Dr. Katie 29:23

Oh, I love that. We're so blown away we can't even talk.

Rhonda Jolyean 29:31

Well, I was gonna ask, so okay, so we've kind of covered, we've covered the sun, we've covered moon, we've covered rising, and we covered mid-heaven. So mid-haven, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Mid-heaven, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 29:45

Okay, so and Pluto and Mercury. Yes. If I'm a leader and I'm listening to the podcast, I'm thinking this would be a kind of cool activity to do. I don't want to go super deep with my team, but it would be nice to see what strengths we have on the team, maybe around communication, around teamwork, collaboration. What are some of the signs and or and or areas, houses that you would have people look at first?

SPEAKER_00 30:16

Well, I think looking at if you want to understand where your team is with communication, look and see what everybody on your team has in their third house. If you want to see how they because the third house is communication, the third house is the mind, and the third house is how we communicate with each other and how we use our mind to communicate. I would also see, or I would also say any placements in the 10th house, the 10th house is the house of leadership. In a all of these houses are ruled by a planet. So the 10th house is ruled by Capricorn, which is it, that's the leadership planet. So anybody who has a lot of placements in their 10th house, they're probably meant to be a leader. And then the 11th house is another one. The 11th house is the collective, that's groups. So look at your team and look at who has what placements in their 11th house because that's who's gonna be able to collaborate well with others. Oh, okay. Those are the big things that I would look at. I mean, there's other, I mean, you can also look at your seventh house, that's relationships, and that's not just your romantic relationship. That's your colleagues, that's your friends, that's people in your life. People with a lot of seventh house placements are gonna do better and be more conscientious around being in groups and around having harmonious or or some sort of relationship with with the people around them. We hope harmonious sometimes are not always.

Dr. Katie 31:33

So that's fascinating. So I have my chart up in front of me. So I have a lot over, if I'm reading it correctly, my seventh, where that seven is.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Right now, yeah, you you have what we call a stellium in your seventh house. A stellium in astrology is anytime you have three or more planets, placements, or asteroids in the same house. You have the asteroid Sedna, Chiron, and Eris and Vesta, and then you have the planet Jupiter there. So, what all of that means is you these and these are mostly in the sign of Aries, you have Sedna and Taurus. What that means is you're someone who on a relational level, you're aware of the other person. And because you've got all those placements there, you're going to be aware of what the group dynamics are in a way that's more potent than someone else would be. Well, I mean, that's why people pay, or it's also a big part of your evolution, because one thing I didn't talk about is we have Pluto, which is the soul's desire to evolve, but then the polarity point of it, which is literally you just go across the charts. So, Katie, you see, do you see, do you see that that mark in your first house right there? That's that's the astrology glyph from Pluto. All you do is you go right across from it and you see this unmarked place, and that's where your Pluto polarity point is. The polarity point is how you evolve. Pluto is the desire to evolve, but the polarity point is how you evolve through relationships, you evolve through the other person, and you evolve by activating and animating the other person because your polarity point is in the sign of Aries, which is the sign of the initiator, the activator, the spark of ignition.

Dr. Katie 33:21

You see me. Yes, I yeah, you see me. Depending a Kleenex, this makes me write it, just it makes so much sense. Like to your point, is you know, we're we're made to do something. And when when I think about what I'm made to do is exactly what you just described.

SPEAKER_01 33:40

Yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 33:41

I had a dream last night that Katie cried today. Well, that's not it, that's not a huge launch. It's not a huge, yeah. I mean, we do cry a lot. Okay, what is my what is my Pluto that you just read for her? Like how what am I moving towards?

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yours is interesting. And I was reminded you're I was reminded of something that happened when we worked together. So you have Pluto, you your your there's 30 degrees in each of these houses, roughly, if we're talking about an equal house system. There's 360 degrees in a circle, so you divide the circle up into 12 signs, and there's 30 degrees in a sign.

Pluto Generations And New Leadership

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Your Pluto rise, or sorry, your Libra rising is at 21 degrees. You have Pluto at 29 degrees of Libra. So there's a that's a pretty close conjunction, right, between 21 and 29. Your rising sign is your instinctual self. Pluto is the compulsion to evolve and the desire to evolve. Whenever you got Pluto so close to the rising sign, like you do, your very presence, because remember, the rising sign is the first thing that people interact with a lot of times when they see you. Your very presence induces evolution in the other person. You have the energy of being a catalyst for wherever you are or whoever you are in front of. And I've seen this happen. And I remember you and I talking about a lot of times you would work at a place and you would help be a catalyst for changes that needed to happen. A lot of times what Pluto does is it unearths the stuff that nobody wants to deal with and it forces it to come up to the surface. And I watched you you did that when we worked together. There, there was there was a very specific situation I'm thinking of where you forced you you forced someone in the organization to face something that they didn't want to face, and you were a catalyst for that happening. And that is there, that is very Pluto in the first house.

Rhonda Jolyean 35:31

Yeah, yes, and I yes, and I mean like just like Katie, and I think let me get this straight. Well, let me say this. One of my goals in life is to leave things better than I found it. That comes from my dad, Jason. You know everything about my the backstory of my dad, and I know that legacy is important. Hold on, I'm gonna I'm gonna try to remember this from when you and I talked. Because is that in the fourth house? Something because Katie and I have something in the fourth house.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

Your the fourth house is like your ancestral karma. So the yeah, that that's part of it.

Rhonda Jolyean 36:10

It's like meaningful, or like Katie and I, because of either our moons or the sun, we have to have meaningful, like we can't just do something, we have to have meaning behind it. So, like leaving things better than I found it.

SPEAKER_00 36:21

Yes, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. And with it being 29 degrees, see 29 degrees is a call we call that the anoretic degree. That's the last time you're going to deal with that energy. So there's a potency to it. So for you, there's this sense that you've had to master power dynamics in this lifetime, and you've probably been put in situations where you've had to learn where to stand your ground and where you've had to learn where to stand in harmony. And that's not something that you learned casually, that's a big part of your own evolution.

unknown 36:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:49

Right.

Rhonda Jolyean 36:50

Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And again, to the listeners, like when Jason says things uh around like anaeretic and more of the evolutionary stuff, that is why you hire someone like Jason. You're not going to get that just from looking at a chart. So, but for the team stuff, looking at the different, you know, sun. And in fact, Jason, we were talking a little bit before we started recording. You mentioned that if teams and individuals wanted to look at certain houses as individuals and then as team structures, were you saying that there's certain, like what are the numbers of houses that are individuals versus the teams and collaboration?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

The first through the sixth house is where you're really looking at yourself and like your own personality and the things that are important for like your emotions, your creative desires. And then it's when we get to that sixth house that we kind of start peering out and we notice that there's a whole world out there that we might want to be a part of and be of service to. So then it's really the seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth, eleventh, and then to a certain degree, the 12th house, where we're in service to the collective and where it's about us and other people. The seventh house is about your relationships with people, the eighth house is about your merging resources with other people, about intimacy, you know, if we're talking about it in that sense. The ninth house is all about higher learning and foreign travel. So it's like you exchanging ideas with other people. The 10th house is you leading people or being led by people. The 11th house is community, and that's where we're finding our place among a tribe with people. And then the 12th house is when we start to go back inside, we take all of the lessons that we've learned from the other houses and we we start to go back inside and we we get very meditative and we discover our spiritual self and our connection to the divine. So it's really house seven through 11, and then to a lesser degree, 12 that we're working with other people.

Rhonda Jolyean 38:47

Okay, interesting. Now, Katie and I, when you read our charts, I know that you had read it in a certain house or a certain sign. And when most people can you speak just a few minutes on when I go to like astrologycafe.com or you don't you just look it up. What are what are people usually looking at? And would you suggest something different for people who are wanting to look up their chart today? I think you're talking about the house system, right? Yes, the house system, yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

Yeah, so usually if you go to a generic astrology app, which there's nothing wrong with, it's it's all good, but just understand what you what it is you're looking at. You're mostly going to be looking at something that pulls up your chart in what we call whole house. So what that does is that divides there's 360 degrees in a circle, it divides all of the circles into an equal part. So, like it, like let's say that you're like I'll give Rhonda, you're an example. You are Libra rising, so your first house and a whole house would be Libra, your second house would be Scorpio. So all of your Scorpio placements would be in the second house. It just it just puts everything together in in a clean, concise way. That's one way you can look at things, there is there is validity to it. But what I do, because I'm an evolutionary astrologer, is I use a different house system called porphyry. Uh, and I will say there are many house systems. I'm not here to debate and argue which one is is right. I actually I I I don't have a lot of strong opinions other than I just use porphyry. What porphyry does, so like when I looked at your charts, Rhonda, uh and and in your chart, Katie, I used porphyry. Porphyry looks at the midheaven, which is what we were talking about earlier. That's your public destiny, that's your public status, that's your 10th house cusp. And it bases the calculations off of that. So if you're interested in looking at your chart based on an idea of like your own evolution and how you are evolving over a lifetime, I use Astro Gold. You can also go into like if you go to Astro.com or AstroSeq, which are free websites where you can pull up your chart, they have an option where you can change the house system that you're looking at. And then you would you would just pick a different house system. So if you wanted to understand more of the evolutionary growth of your life, more about like your your public destiny and how that all calculates, then porphyry is what you would use. P-O-R-P-H-R-Y-R-Y.

Rhonda Jolyean 41:14

Yes, the spelling is always difficult for me. However, it usually the internet usually corrects it for me. Like when I look at that stuff.

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yeah, that's I think I it's P-O-R-P-H-Y-R-Y. Yeah, yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 41:28

And so though, if people are just kind of casually searching, would they if it would any house system, do you know, does it keep the the top, the three main things the same, like my sun, my moon, and my rising?

SPEAKER_00 41:45

Yeah, well, it the only thing that changes is the houses. So you all of the planets are always going to be in the same signs because that's determined by the the date, the time, the location of your birth. It's just the houses. So it's the where in your life they show up, the who and the what that stays the same. That's that's why I don't I that's why I don't think that I think or I think that there's validity to every house system. It just depends on

House Systems And How To Learn

SPEAKER_00 42:10

what angle you want to come in and look at it. Because the you you're always going to have moon and Scorpio, Sun in Capricorn, Libra rising, no matter what house system you're looking at.

Rhonda Jolyean 42:20

Okay, great. So we know that there are a lot of smart people listening, and maybe that will find this eventually, that have always been leery of astrology. Yeah. What are some reasons that smart people stay away from astrology? And what would you say that would help give them give validity? I mean, you've you've convinced me years ago, and I was already convinced, but you know, Katie and I are we're in. But what are yeah, what are some things that you have told people that have helped, you know, make it easier for them to understand this and to buy into astrology as a leadership tool specifically?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah, well, there's a reason why there's this sort of overlay that serious people don't take astrology seriously. And I think that that's by design. If you if you look at, if you look at the last 2,000 years of history, for the longest time, astrology was considered heretical. And it was something that, you know, the church very much cracked down on while they themselves employed astrologers, while leaders had astrologers, but were telling their subjects that astrology was bad. Well, that's because they don't want you to have power. They didn't want you to have power. And so we're not burning people at the stake anymore for being astrologers, but what we're doing is we're laughing at them because we don't want you to have power. So we want to take power away from you by not allowing you to even have the curiosity to go deep and explore what your own astrology is, what literally the own plot of your life that you put in place is. So that's a big part of it. What what where I think the Real dumbing down of that has been is is this sort of like sun sign horoscope type astrology that you see in the papers or at the supermarket. That I think did that's more of a psyop than it is anything else. Not that there's not real information in there, but if you're a Capricorn and you're reading, you know, if you're Capricorn Sun and you're reading a horoscope for yourself today, that's based on some very huge generalities that may or may not have anything to do with your own experience. It has nothing to do with your own astrology. And it's really just an oversimplification of something that's very complex. So people who are smart, people who are leaders, they like complex things. Like if you're a thinking person, you should want to understand astrology just for the mere academics of it. Whether or not you choose to ascribe philosophical, spiritual meaning to it is entirely up to you and how you choose to perceive reality. But it's undeniable. Anyone who's ever gotten a reading will walk away saying by a good astrologer, hey, I learned something about myself and I had myself validated and I was seen in a way I hadn't been seen before. Well, that's because astrology is a science. So I would say to the skeptic, to the skeptic, give it a try. What do you have to lose? I mean, just just go on a free app. You don't have to hire me. Just go on a free app, download it. Uh, I like Astro Gold because it actually gives you delineation. So, like if you've got Libra rising, it'll tell you what that is. It's you know, it's surface level stuff, but there's going to be truth that you're going to see in all of that. Give it a shot and see how that works for you. And then the other thing is understand that your birth chart was where you were at when you were born, but these planets they move. And as they move, certain things are happening. So watch the news and then watch what's going on with the planets, and you'll see some observation and correlation right there. Because we've had all of the outer planets go into new signs very recently, and that's changing things in in some very real tangible ways. The last time that Neptune, so Neptune recently entered the sign of Aries. Neptune only enters a new sign once every 160 years. The last or la last time that it did this, the civil war started. Neptune dissolves, Aries is aggression that takes action. Well, what happened this time? We're now in a war with you know, I Iran overseas. So Neptune and Aries. That's an example of how this plays out on what we call a mundane level, which means the world stage. Mundane astrology is when you're looking at current events, world events.

Dr. Katie 46:39

That's fascinating. And so now I'm like, I need about another eight hours with you. Yeah, place, place. But I'm just curious. So for someone like me or other leaders that are like, now I'm fascinated, like I was interested, now I'm fascinated, fascinated by all of it. How do I keep learning this stuff? Like, how do I know what's rising and what's moving and and all of that? Like, is there something easy to follow as opposed to just the newspaper?

SPEAKER_00 47:12

Yeah, most of the apps that you go to. So, like if you go to AstroSeq, if you go to AstroGold, if you go to Astro.com, they have what's called a bywheel. So you can pull up your chart and then you can pull up what's called a transit chart. The transits show you where the planets are literally transiting in space right now. So that's telling you what's going on, or you can just pull up a chart of like where are the stars and the planets today, and that's going to show you like, okay, today Uranus is at zero degrees Gemini, Neptune is in Aries, Pluto is in Aquarius, you know, and so on and so forth. One thing to understand these planets, you know, the inner planets are the more personal planets. They move faster and they affect you and your personality and your life on a daily basis more immediate. So that's Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn. Then we get to those outer planets, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto, those more affect us on a collective level. They definitely affect you individually, but because they move so slow, they have more of a collective effect than the inner planets do.

Dr. Katie 48:12

That is so cool. Or can you just wake up and text me every morning what I know?

Rhonda Jolyean 48:18

I was going to say, I was gonna plug. Jason has an extensive and fabulous social media presence, specifically on Instagram. And he, I think, gives away amazing resources. He'll go through almost daily. I feel like you post a video and say what's happening. And he'll say things like, find in your chart where your mercury is, because here's what's happening. And then you can, and he'll have like people chat and it's a very lively conversation.

Skeptics Sun Sign Myths And Proof

Rhonda Jolyean 48:50

So he's very much putting a lot of resources out into the world. And we're going to not only post in the show notes where you can follow him, but we will also, you know, please tell people where they can find you, Jason, because I want everyone to follow you.

SPEAKER_00 49:07

Yeah. I use my spiritual name on social media, which is Teg A Call Deep. So you can find me on Instagram, TikTok, and YouTube. And it's T-E-G A K A L D E E P. Teg a call deep.

Rhonda Jolyean 49:22

Yeah. And I think you can also look you up by Jason Dilts and I'm not going to be able to Jason Dilts.

SPEAKER_00 49:28

Yeah. You'll see someone named Call Deep, and you'll be like, who is that? What's a weird name?

unknown 49:32

Yeah.

Dr. Katie 49:33

Well, it's it's funny because the opposite, like, I started following you, and then I'm like, who is this? And then I'm like, oh, it's Jason. Okay, got it, got it.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

My name is Teg, and then that's fine. You can call me that too.

Rhonda Jolyean 49:45

Yeah, I love it. I love it. But he gives away great resources on there. And so then you can kind of get into that. And then people can also DM you if they want to have their chart read by you. And Jason does this professionally, and then he can go into deep dives and you take clients, and this can be something that leaders can do. And I think too.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

If you if you if you want to do yeah, if you ever if you're a leader of a company and organization and you would like to understand your team better, you want to do this as a team building exercise, we can talk about that. I think these are it's a fun thing to do.

unknown 50:21

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 50:22

Yeah, for a retreat, like that would be so fun. Yeah. Even though he's based in California, can do virtual or you know, I mean, maybe in person.

SPEAKER_00 50:33

I don't know.

Rhonda Jolyean 50:34

Yeah.

unknown 50:34

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 50:35

Yeah, that would be so fun. I want one, I thought of one last question I wanted to talk to you about. What are your thoughts on Mercury in retrograde?

SPEAKER_00 50:46

Well, Mercury is in retrograde for basically what three months out of the year, basically. Um it's interesting. You both were born during Mercury retrograde. Did you know that?

Rhonda Jolyean 50:59

I knew that, but I didn't know that he was.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

He was born during retrograde.

unknown 51:03

Yeah.

Dr. Katie 51:03

So what does that mean first? And then, yeah, because I don't know what that means. So start with that.

SPEAKER_00 51:08

Mercury, so planets are are moving, you know, yeah, circularly in a in a system. So it it's it's it's not that they literally go backward, but they appear to go backward at certain points from because of the ecliptic. So we call that retrograde. So it appears that Mercury is moving backward. And what that really means is retrograde is a time for review. Because Mercury, Mercury is the fastest moving planet, it takes about 88 days to orbit the sun. So because it's always it's moving so fast, it's always in retrograde, and it retrogrades three or four times a year. And we we just had a Mercury retrograde that ended on the equinox back in March on or on March 21st. It's going to be returning to us this summer. Uh but Mercury is the mind and it's communication. So anytime Mercury goes into retrograde, you want to slow down because this is when communication mishaps happen. This is when your flight gets canceled. This is when you know the email that you sent somehow didn't make it. This is when it takes 45 minutes to get across town and it normally takes 15 minutes. This is when you get into a fight with somebody because just you couldn't hear each other that day. Mercury retrograde will cause problems with communication, but the invitation of it is to go inside, meditate during Mercury retrograde. The more meditative you are during Mercury retrograde, the better you're going to become out of it. And for people like the two of you who have Mercury retrograde natally, meaning you were born when Mercury was in retrograde, you're actually instinctually wired to think more reflectively and more intuitively. So you do better during Mercury retrogrades than the average person does. You you have a live because you were natally born during Mercury retrograde.

Dr. Katie 52:52

That is fascinating. And I when I hear that, I think because I talk to people all the time about growth mindset as opposed to fixed mindset. And hearing that is it sounds like, well, that's what probably why growth mindset is a little easier for us.

SPEAKER_00 53:08

Yes, yes, it is, yes, yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 53:12

Fascinating. But then we it's funny because our last podcast that actually dropped today as we're recording was French Sundays and how we need to do some intentional resets and pauses, and it feels like we need to plan those personal retreats during that time.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

And what's cool is you know, you talk, you say that. Well, the cosmos has designed it as such, because the reason why planets go into retrograde is whatever the archetype around that planet is, is a time for us to be reflective and go inside and retreat back into ourselves and decide what we're gonna do about it. So, tomorrow, for example, tomorrow is May 6th. Pluto is going retrograde. Now, Pluto spends about half of the year retrograde, but what that means is it's a time to be very reflective about what is the mission of your soul, what is it that you came here to do? What is the compulsion of your own desires, like or evolutionary desires? How do you want to grow and evolve? You're gonna get to deeply reflect on that while Pluto is in retrograde.

Dr. Katie 54:08

That's fascinating. So when this comes out on the 12th, I want everyone to look back to the sixth and see, I mean, seriously, yeah, because it it feels like we might just instinctually be doing that and not realize we're doing it. If we're not fighting against the universe, we're we're probably doing that unintentionally. Well, unbeknownst to us, we're we're following what we're supposed to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

And this is why it's helpful to know astrology and why going back to your question, Ronda, why should smart people know astrology? Why should

Mercury Retrograde As A Reset

SPEAKER_00 54:40

skeptics know it? You want to know that this is all happening for you, not to you. And a lot of times inspire, and we feel we can be very easily put into a victim consciousness of why is this happening? Well, when you understand your chart and you understand the planets that are moving around your chart, you understand why. And then when you understand why, you can figure out what to do about it. None of this is happening to punish you. This is all happening to facilitate your own growth and evolution, though that is not always fun.

Dr. Katie 55:07

Yeah, I love this. I what a gift to give to people. I this is coming out after Mother's Day, but I think a Mother's Day gift. Rob's in my 26th wedding anniversary is in June. Like, what a great anniversary gift for a couple to do something like this.

SPEAKER_00 55:24

Absolutely astrology, so I can talk to you about you know, you as a couple and how you animate and activate each other and where your points are, where the growth points are. Yeah, that's that's a great anniversary, birthday presents. Yeah, it's a it's a unique way to help somebody better understand themselves. I'm actually doing a birthday reading for somebody tomorrow that was gonna be that's amazing.

Dr. Katie 55:46

Well, good news. You're gonna be doing a birthday reading for my husband June 11th, so uh we'll get that book. Um I this is so fascinating. I we I I could talk to you, like I said, for another eight hours. Thank you for sharing this. I can't wait to hear feedback from people. It's funny, someone was texting me a little earlier today saying, I heard you're gonna do this. My wife and I did something like this. Once you once you have your reading, let me know. So um, I know people are listening are gonna be excited about this.

SPEAKER_00 56:21

Well, and anybody listening, I I know a lot of this stuff is like a little heady and it can go over your head really quickly, especially when we're getting into the technical stuff. If you want to just know some bases like, hey, what are my sun, moon, and rising? I don't understand how to use these astrology apps, it's all too confusing. Just DM me, send me your birthday, your birth time, where you were born. I'll look it up, I'll tell you. I mean, if you want to get deeper than that, you're gonna have to book a reading with me. But uh, you know, I I want to I want to help you pretty much as much as possible. If you have a burning question, you know, yeah, give me a follow, send me a DM. We'll we can go from there.

Rhonda Jolyean 56:52

I love that. Just make sure, say you're from the pod, and then just you have to make sure to follow him on all socials.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Identify where you found me from, and then I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll be a lot more quick to get back to you.

Rhonda Jolyean 57:07

There you go. Well, I'm so glad that I got to introduce you to our audience and to Katie. I knew that she'd be obsessed. I mean, yes, growth mindset is in our charts, obviously. I love that we have validated that. I love that you're spreading the message of evolutionary astrology and that you continue to just, you know, your heart just continues to find its path in this world. And I hope that our listeners can also open up their hearts if it wasn't already open to astrology, because I honestly believe that the more tool, the more tools that we have for this new age, the better when it comes to leadership.

SPEAKER_00 57:56

Yeah, exactly. And and last thing I'll say on that, you don't have to check your existing belief system in at the door to use astrology. You can be a Christian and use astrology. You you can be Jewish, Muslim, you can be a very religious person and understand that astrology is the language of God and that this is that this is one of the tools that God uses to communicate. We all have a different operating system, all of it's good. You you you just choose what works for you.

Rhonda Jolyean 58:21

Yeah, yeah. That that is such a great point, and I love that, and and that's important for people to hear too. So yeah.

Dr. Katie 58:30

Yeah, and I think not just in astrology, but like I think that is the greater message of it all, right? We're we're all who we are, and and let's just be be better and be more knowledgeable and more self-aware.

SPEAKER_00 58:43

So lift people up, which is what you two are doing on this podcast, and I love that. This is we have to be elevating and lifting up the people around us, and you're doing it with both both of you in your individual missions and then coming together with this collective mission.

Dr. Katie 58:58

Yeah, this is so great, so great. Well, I love to assign homework to our listeners, and so your homework is go in the show notes, connect, follow all of the good stuff, learn from Jason and all of the work he's doing, but also tell us when you go in and you do this work, we want to hear from you your aha moments, what what was maybe missing, or what you were resisting. I I love the the conversation around,

How To Connect And Closing

Dr. Katie 59:30

you know, sometimes we're fighting that. I my word right now is friction. What are we avoiding that we really should be leaning into and just trusting? So we want to hear from everybody what that is.

Rhonda Jolyean 59:41

Yeah. And thank you to everyone for listening. We appreciate all of our new listeners. Keep sharing the podcast, keep writing and reviewing. It really, really helps us and it helps guests like Jason. And we are going to continue to have more guests, and we can't wait for the next episode. We aren't ready to release what that will be yet, but you'll have to tune in and see. And Katie, any last words?

Dr. Katie 1:00:10

Nope. Just hope everyone does this and leans in and yeah, share this podcast with someone that you're like, oh, you need to listen to this. We can't wait to hear. So thank you everyone for joining us on the Path to Leadership, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.