The Stories in Your Head Are Running Your Leadership (Here's How to Rewrite Them)

Have you ever convinced yourself you were in trouble because a meeting got canceled? Assumed a teammate didn't care because they went quiet? Or created an entire worst-case scenario from one small piece of information?

You're not alone.

In this final episode of our Stories We Tell Ourselves series, Dr. Katie Ervin and Rhonda Jolyean explore how the narratives we create can quietly influence our confidence, communication, relationships, and leadership effectiveness.

We unpack why our brains are wired to focus on threats, how negativity bias fuels assumptions, and why comparison can damage confidence through what psychologists call the spotlight effect. From entrepreneurship and fear of failure to navigating major life transitions, we share personal experiences and practical strategies for challenging the stories that no longer serve us.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why your brain fills in missing information with assumptions
• How negativity bias and comparison distort reality
• Questions that help separate facts from stories
• Simple language shifts that move you from certainty to curiosity
• Leadership communication practices that reduce anxiety and build trust
• How psychological safety helps employees feel valued, heard, and supported

If you've ever found yourself overthinking, assuming the worst, or letting self-doubt influence your decisions, this conversation will give you practical tools to rewrite the narrative.

Ask yourself:

What do I know to be true?
What information am I missing?
Am I reacting to facts or assumptions?
Have I had the conversation?

Because the stories you tell yourself shape the leader, colleague, partner, and person you become.

Subscribe, share this episode with a leader in your life, and leave a review with the story you're working to rewrite.

Follow us on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/in/rhondajhale/ and https://www.linkedin.com/in/katieervin/

www.jolyean.com

www.katieervin.com

Check out Rhonda's Etsy shop:  https://www.etsy.com/shop/ThingsForge

Order Dr. Katie's books: 

• 52 Weeks of LEADERship:  https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=afiG9oMq4YoXnvxsSD9PDjTrezQvZd6A7vBE1T2yaGz
• You Might Be an Asshole: https://shop.ingramspark.com/b/084?params=O4ZMvNNamwFzFFUAjJB1s6pjudAiHrUlcUX0iMUlzI6

Learn more about Catalyst LEADERs Institute:  www.katieervin.com/leaders

 
Theme music by Emma Jo https://emmajo.rocks/

Transcript

Welcome And Series Recap

Dr. Katie 0:00

Hi everyone, welcome back to the Pact to Leadership. I'm Dr.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:03

Katie and I'm Rhonda Jolene.

Dr. Katie 0:05

And we are so thrilled to have you with us. Welcome to our new listeners. Welcome back to everybody who's listened before. We just appreciate you following along, especially as we've been doing this series.

Rhonda Jolyean 0:18

Yeah, I feel like this series is a deep one and it's an important one. We've been getting some feedback and I mean, I keep thinking about it. I keep thinking about when I'm having in real-time conversations with my partner, my friends, people in the community that I work with, and trying to stop myself and say, wait a minute, is this fact or is this a story that I'm making up in my head? And it gets a little easier as we're trying to locate those stories and we're trying to affirm or trying to dispel stories. But I think as human beings, it's gonna always be a struggle. So yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 1:04

Well, and it's uh I've really enjoyed doing this series because I see it all the time in my work. Like I see this happen all the time where we make up stories in our head and we make them worse than they are, and we just keep, you know, catastrophizing things. In our episode last week, where we talked about the stories leaders tell themselves and about their teams. I had a really cool coaching conversation with a client, and he said, I wouldn't listen to the podcast before we jumped on. He was like, I have some things to talk to you about. And he was talking about this relationship with one of his peers, and he's like, I'm constantly telling myself stories that make the relationship harder on both her and myself. And I'm like, Yes, we have some breakthrough here.

Rhonda Jolyean 1:54

That is amazing, and I'd love to hear it, and I love to hear people being able to use this as a resource and a tool, especially in real time. That's great.

Dr. Katie 2:05

Yeah, yeah, it is good. And we're gonna close out the series today on as I affectionately call the so what of it all. Like, so what? We've we we know that we're telling ourselves the stories, we now realize it happens. And so, how do we rewrite those stories? How do we how do we change that behavior as opposed to continuing to repeat the same stuff over and over and over again?

Rhonda Jolyean 2:29

Yeah, and

The So What Of Stories

Rhonda Jolyean 2:30

I like that we are gonna give some practical advice. We're going to recap a tiny bit what we've already been through. But at the same time, I think what's really encouraging is that just because you've carried a story for years doesn't mean that you have to carry it forever. And you and I know that. That doesn't mean that it's not easy and that you won't be challenged with that, especially as you change teams, as you climb corporate ladders, as you pivot to different jobs, as you go through seasons of life. And yet it's, I think, inspiring to know that we are able to deconstruct stories and we, it's kind of like building muscles. Once we can build up the muscle to discover the stories that we're telling ourselves about ourselves, about others, et cetera, we are then more able to move ahead and be more open to creativity and possibility.

Dr. Katie 3:32

Yeah, yeah. You're absolutely right. And, you know, as we're wrapping up the series, you know, I just keep thinking about the stories that I've told myself through the years, and I'm still telling myself. Like it's still happening. My daughter and I are getting ready to get open water scuba certified. And, you know, the the panic stories that I'm telling myself are all the bad things that can happen, as opposed to like, I just saw a news story about a 98-year-old woman who scuba

Fear Stories And Real Resets

Dr. Katie 4:00

all the time. It's like it's gonna be, it's gonna be fine. And so some of it is that those kind of personal things, but then also when I started Catalyst and it it's a struggle. Anyone who started a business knows at the very beginning, it's a it's a struggle. And in November of 2024, I talk about this all the time. I hit the the lowest of low points, both business and personal. And the story I was telling myself was your failure, you can't do this, you've got to go get a job. Like all of the everyone's disappointed in you, you know, no one's gonna hire you. The the stories that my brain kept telling me was making me so sick, both in I was overweight, I was gaining weight, I was sick that way, but then also just so unhealthy. And I had to rewrite those stories. I had to change the narrative to really trust my expertise, trust what I knew I was doing was right. And it was it was hard. I still go back to that often to remind myself how far I've come.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:06

Yes, and I know that you keep notes to yourself, like we talked about last time, so that you have that visual reminder. You know, a huge visual reminder for you is your concrete, tangible books that you've written to show you how far that you've come. And you do a really good job of documenting all of that on your LinkedIn as kind of your personal journal, if you will. So I'm always inspired to see that too. Thanks.

Dr. Katie 5:33

Yeah, I try. I mean, my big thing is I I just we've talked about this. I can't have a shiny, perfect social media because my life is not shiny and perfect, and it's inauthentic to I don't want people to see me as pretending to be someone I'm not. 100%.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:52

Yeah.

unknown 5:53

Yeah.

Rhonda Jolyean 5:53

I have like just like you, I have personal stories, I have professional stories. I think for me personally, one of the things that I have struggled with is, you know, that fear of failure at a certain age, like what society has told us that we should look like, be like, what is success? You know, what is you should be more successful? What does that even mean to you as a person? And we've talked about that. And a big one for me lately, especially as, and I'll just be vulnerable, somebody who's going through perimenopause, is really what I should feel like in my body. And that has been a huge story. And I think we don't address that enough as leaders. We leave out the feeling, just like I talk about a lot, we leave out the feeling of spatial beauty around us in workplace. We also say that we value wellness, but we do it as return on investment, right? We don't think about the individual. And I don't feel like we give leaders enough time to think about how they change through the seasons, just like their business is changing through the seasons. And people who go through menopause and perimenopause, especially, that is a very difficult change. And here in the United States, I know we have some global listeners who are very lucky to have countries that recognize that that is a difficult season and they get a lot of time off and recognition for that. But here in the United States, we don't. And so I think it's very important that we talk about it more openly at work and that we have support systems. And so the stories that I've been telling myself about what I should look like, how I should feel, et cetera, have been very difficult. And so those are things that I'm unraveling right now and having friends like you, Katie, are vital to thriving and not just surviving during these times.

Dr. Katie 8:04

Yeah. Oh, I I appreciate you sharing that because I think so often women and even men who are supporting or partners who are supporting their women through this life transition. You know, it's when you're going through a pregnancy or something like that, you can you can visually see, oh, she's pregnant. And then when when we talk about hormones and hormones going all over the place, people are like, oh, okay, I get it. You're you know, you're growing another human. People don't see it on the other side where it's you know, it's I think so many, you know, you hear about fibromyalgia or any other type of non-visible conditions that people are working through. Yeah, it's it's such a journey. It is a lot. Well, and we've talked about this before. Like we can't really rewrite and change things be until we're aware of them. Like we really've got to fully identify before we can change or fix or even even address what's happening. Yeah. Well, and we've talked about different examples, right? We've talked about overworking and perfectionism and having or avoiding difficult conversations. And the questions we have to think about is, you know, what behaviors offer

Catching Assumptions In The Moment

Dr. Katie 9:30

often signal a deeper story, or what clues tell us that there's there's something beneath the surface. And it's interesting, I just had lunch with a girlfriend right before we recorded, and we were talking about something she's working through, and she said, Well, I just know they're mad at me, or I know they're disappointed, or I know. And I said, How do you know? Right? Have they told you? Have you talked about it? And she's like, Well, they were a little cold in their email, but that that can mean 150 different things, as we've talked about, and so we've got to do that that deeper dive into you know what what is happening here and and what is some of that underlying stories that might be coming into play here.

Rhonda Jolyean 10:15

Yes, and in that awareness, and we'll talk about this here in a little bit, but you have to ask those questions, and that can be really hard. But when I think about what's harder, being left in what I call the gray area for longer and rumination and telling having those movies, the movie reel in your head spin, or getting up a little bit of nerves and having the butterflies in your stomach to confront a person with curiosity and kindness, as you always say, that kindness piece, and then having those answers quicker. So you really have to weigh that. And I know what the answer is, but yeah, it's not always easy.

Dr. Katie 11:01

Yeah, it's not easy, and you know, it like you said, having the courage to have those conversations because the the conversation I was having with her is okay, what what if you find out this person is mad at you and that you did disappoint them? What's gonna change? What if you find out that it had nothing to do with you and you're making up a story? What's gonna change? You know, and so trying to get her to see and understand and kind of weigh the options,

Choosing Clarity Over Rumination

Dr. Katie 11:30

because yes, it's really hard to say, did I disappoint you or you're upset or the story I'm telling myself? But the gift of of that clarity can really help us move relationships forward.

Rhonda Jolyean 11:45

And also, this is really silly, but something well, it's probably not silly, but I've been saying that it's kind of silly just in my personal life lately, because I feel like a lot of times we feel these stories a lot with our very close circle of people. So not only in the workspace, but if you think about your friends and family members, maybe in-laws is a good way to think about it. But with some of my tight friends lately, I have been uh disappointed a lot because I have a fear of, you know, disappointing others. So I don't want to be disappointed. I hold people to high standards, and that's a whole different podcast topic. However, I have been saying to certain friends, you know, I just don't think that I shouldn't think about other people as much as I do. And it's totally true because I am making up those stories in my head about why they couldn't attend an event or why they didn't immediately answer my text. And these are things we talk about all the time, and yet I continue to do it because you love these people and you're invested. And but everybody has their own lives. And even then, this morning, I one of my dearest, dearest friends, she texted me and I a date that she wanted to get together for coffee. And I thought, I already texted you that that date didn't work. So I waited a little bit, I got back on there to text. Lo and behold, I had started a text a week ago to her, never sent it. So no wonder she texted me and I'm like, oh my God, here I am saying all these things to myself when really she was just following up, you know, because I hadn't, I was the bonehead that didn't text her back. I mean, it's just the miscommunication, the people we are really thinking about ourselves more than we give ourselves credit for. And I'm just in this new phase where I'm trying to think take things not so seriously. And I think if we could do that in our workplaces and just keep the word curiosity at the forefront, things would be a lot easier.

Dr. Katie 14:10

Yeah, yeah. Well, and I love your example because it's really separating the facts from the stories. And luckily you could you could see that there.

Rhonda Jolyean 14:19

There was evidence, geez.

Dr. Katie 14:23

But like the core of asking the questions, what do I know to be true? Right? Like what what is

Reframing Common Workplace Triggers

Dr. Katie 14:30

the what is the true? And so we've talked about some of these examples. Um, if your boss cancels a meeting, the story we start making up is I'm in trouble. And you know, we've talked about an employee is quiet at a meeting, and the story we make up is they don't care, or someone disagreed with me, I'm failing. But really, we have to interpret that in in a growth mindset way, right? We we can't assume or catastrophize or become less curious. We've got to, oh, my boss canceled a meeting, not I'm in trouble. I wonder what they have on their plate. I wonder what emergency popped up, I wonder what happened. Same as if your boss puts a surprise meeting on your calendar instead of oh my gosh, I'm getting fired, right? It's oh, they want to talk about a new project they want to add me in on, or they want to loop me in on some facts, or you know, what is the the other other side of that that it can be as opposed to the catastrophizing the the other side?

Rhonda Jolyean 15:34

Yes. Although I will say that one we really as leaders in today's society, if you're gonna put a 15-minute meeting on somebody's calendar in 15 minutes with today's culture, I feel it is important to if they are not getting fired or let go, you need to put not like not dire or something like good news or something that says to them, don't freak out, you're not getting fired, in the sub in the title line, you know. My husband's boss is very good at doing that.

Dr. Katie 16:14

So that way they don't freak out. Right. Well, and even, I mean, we talked about this in other podcasts about, you know, for introverts, it helps. Like give as much context as you as you can, as opposed to, you know, quick meeting with Rhonda. It's hey, quick meeting with Rhonda to discuss podcast topics, things like that. Like as much detail as you can give people, yeah, it will help with the stories they're telling themselves. And uh that's really powerful. Yes, exactly. So yeah. Well, and I you always talk about curiosity, and I think you know, that really is the antidote to a lot of this because it really interrupts the certainty that that our brain feels like it it knows. And so, you know, asking yourselves what else could be true? What information am I missing? Am I reacting to facts

Curiosity Versus Negativity Bias

Dr. Katie 17:10

or assumptions? And have I had the conversation? Have I asked the questions? Have I checked in with people? Have I confirmed the stories I'm telling myself? And I think so often the answer is no, we haven't because we've already told ourselves the whole story. Exactly.

Rhonda Jolyean 17:27

Yes. And again, that our brain is always going to go towards that negativity bias. Our brain is here to help us survive, not thrive. And it's always going to go towards the patterns that it has in the past. And something I've learned in therapy is our brain is going to let's say that we've rightly so or not rightly so, our brain has come up with assumptions for so long that are negative about certain situations. It will have that pattern projected in the future. So it's really hard to dismantle it going forward. So again, it's people in a group. I mean, this happens to everybody, right? In high school, people in a group whispering and then they look over at you. You think, oh, they're gossiping about me, they're talking negative. When in reality, they could be looking behind you at something. They could be nervous about the boss who's in the office behind you, or they could be saying, Did we forget the cake for the surprise party that we're planning? You know, you have no idea. It's they could be talking about how they forgot, you know, their wife's birthday that day. You have you just have no idea, but our minds are gonna go towards that negativity. And I think again, another way. Oh, you know what? Oh my gosh. No, this isn't really an appropriate. Well, it could be an appropriate example. Have you heard of this new book, Strangers? No, okay. Well, I have not read it, I want to read it. It the author was just on Drew Barrymore's show. Okay, and this book is apparently about marriage, which always makes me a little hesitant

Spotlight Theory And Comparison Spirals

Rhonda Jolyean 19:30

to read about, to be honest with you. However, it's this woman's memoir about her marriage that dissolved and was, I don't know much about it. However, I did see that she talks about this theory that's called the spotlight theory. Have you heard about this? No. I know it's very intriguing. So the spotlight theory, I think, kind of goes into the stories that we tell ourselves theory because it goes into comparison theory. So the spotlight theory talks about how when you see someone that's being put up into a spotlight. So let's say it kind of this kind of reminded me of what we were talking about with people whispering about you. Let's say that at work, somebody is just always being recognized, put up on a spotlight, put in the pedestal. Instead of us as human beings, and you know, our brain is gonna go towards that comparison. And I've said before, our brain is going to it in the same part of our brain where comparison lives is where grief and loss live. So we are gonna feel that grief and loss. So somebody's up here. My hand looks weird on the camera, but so our brain is or if somebody's up here on the pedestal, instead of just looking up at them and thinking, wow, I wish I had that. I'm sad, I'm feeling grief. You instead put yourself in the spotlight and then they disappear into the darkness. Now, that's not to say that you don't celebrate women, you don't celebrate your friends, you don't celebrate people that don't deserve it. It's not to diminish them because we definitely, there's enough pie for us to all have in this world. But what it means is instead of lowering yourself or diminishing yourself, it's kind of like how I've been thinking about so many other people and why are they not answering my text and all this? It's like, well, why didn't Rhonda, why didn't you answer your friend's text? Hello, did you make sure you answered her? Put yourself in the spotlight. Put yourself in that driver's seat and think, wow, Katie, instead of you, I'm making this up because uh Katie is very good at celebrating people and very good at celebrating herself. However, I'm gonna use this as an example. Instead of you putting you know, somebody that you see get Maybe a coaching deal that you didn't get. You're like, hey, I just wrote a freaking book. I'm going to continue to celebrate that. And then it just, you have no time for that other person and that jealousy or that comparison to be there. It's really that spotlight on yourself. So that could maybe help us rewrite some of those stories. Anyways, it's called Strangers. I don't remember the name of the author, but I've heard it's really good. And I would love to hear if people and our audience have read it and what their thoughts are, and if there's any application to leadership as well, because I I'm always intrigued by stuff like that. And I also have five different books that I'm reading right now. So if it's worth reading and pushing up to the front, let us know.

Dr. Katie 22:47

Yeah, yeah. Interesting. Yeah, listening to you talk. I'm like, okay. Well, and I just did a quick Google on spotlight theory. And it it's so interesting because it talks about it's elevated by social, it it causes social anxiety. Uh, and it highlights a tendency to feel self-conscious, believing that we're the center of attention. Um and it says the spotlight theory suggests that individuals often overestimate how much others notice their behavior. So it could be good and bad. It could be good and bad, but it just hearing like your example, it's like I could I could see where someone could get so spun up on why not me, or I'm so important, or you know, and it's like we're not the center of everybody's universe. Like there was some TikToks going around that my husband shared with me, and this woman was getting ready for a wedding and she's so upset. Like, I can't go because I can't find this purse that da-da-da. And he's like, That's it. I'm calling the bride, we're calling off the wedding, right? Because your purse is the most important thing of the day. But the stories we tell ourselves, right, is I don't have the perfect outfit, and everyone's gonna notice, and people are not gonna like my hair, and all of a sudden I'm just gonna ruin the day. Where it's like, you know what? Most often people do not care. And and I've ended a lot of sessions lately as I'm talking about self-awareness and talking about the stories we tell ourselves, is you know, people remember how we make them feel, not by what we make them

Leading With Clarity And Safety

Dr. Katie 24:30

do or what we do for them. It's how do they feel the impact we make? And I think as we're working to rewrite those stories, we've got to really think about the impact we're having on others. And if we're not having those kind of conversations and we're not doing the the work, then we're not able to have positive impact on others.

Rhonda Jolyean 24:51

I really like that. I like think, yes, thinking about ourselves with the spotlight theory and yet thinking about other people in a healthy way, not so much where you sacrifice your own health. It's almost you've talked about this before, the air mask theory, put your mask on first before you put it on your children or somebody else. That's very difficult to remember in a world that says certain people, specifically people that identify as female and people who identify as moms or caregivers, need to take care of other people and sacrifice themselves first, you know. That's difficult to remember. And then it's also, you know, but then you also have a society that says, well, you need to push to be number one and to be in the spotlight. But we also want to, we're communal people, so we want to share that spotlight. There's a lot going on, but I think there's enough, like I always say, pie to go around. Everybody has a seat at the table. And yeah, I that's just a lot to think about. And yet I know that there's we always talk about intention and doing it in a way that works for us and the people that we love and that we can directly impact. So I like that the impact word, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Dr. Katie 26:23

And I mean, just thinking about as we start kind of moving to how we rewrite the stories as leaders, but just also as just humans, right? We have such an impact on others and we help them shape their stories that they're telling themselves. It it could be employees, it could be friend groups, it could be whatever. Employees or people are constantly asking questions like, do I belong? Do I feel valued? Does my work matter? Is it safe to speak up? Can I make a mistake and recover? And we've got to, as leaders, as humans, as people, we've got to pay attention to those narratives that that other people are telling themselves as well. And oftentimes when our needs aren't met are when stories are created even more, right? Nobody's listening to me. My work doesn't matter, leadership doesn't care about me, my friends aren't including me. Like my husband doesn't like me anymore. Like all of those stories really come when our needs aren't met. Well, we're looking for that proof that our negativity bias is correct. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And so even thinking about how leaders create that healthier narrative, we've talked about clarity, which is so wildly important. Um, giving feedback, giving, being kind, telling people the truth, having those courageous conversations, recognition, consistency, and then psychological safety, making sure that we are not intentionally or unintentionally punishing people for speaking up. And sometimes people are going to speak up and they're not going to have the right words, but if we shut them down, I when I do the feedback presentation that I do so often, one of the things I talk about is how we behave when someone gives us feedback, it puts us in line for if they'll ever give it to us again. If we if we don't receive it well, if we are dismissive, if we're hurtful, if we lash out at them, they're not gonna come to us with with courage and kindness the next time.

Rhonda Jolyean 28:26

That's very true. I've never thought about it that way. Yeah. And you know I like feedback. I don't like feedback as a gift.

Dr. Katie 28:37

Yeah. Spoiler, we're gonna talk about that in an upcoming, in an upcoming podcast. We'll tease that at the end, but not all feedback is a gift. I'm changing my changing my tune. I got you. So I think it's so important that you know we we identify the stories we're telling ourselves, we identify the root of the problems, but now we've got to decide the story you choose next. Like what is that next story? And to me, it ties to growth mindsets. What story are you ready to let go? What what's not serving you any anymore? And what stories do you want to write next? We can rewrite our stories or we can write whole new chapters, and I think that's really important as as leaders and as as humans.

Rhonda Jolyean 29:31

When you ask these questions, so many things for me come up. And I think uh for me, it's gonna be important to write these things down. And I'm not gonna make a you know, I if I want to write about them, I'm gonna write about, but I don't want to force myself. If some people want to make this an activity, I think that would be really cool because teams, this is a way that would be easy to get curious with your teams, but also maybe as leadership groups. I this is really hard work though, too. And so we didn't mention it this episode. We have been mentioning it, but Katie and I are not therapists, we don't claim to be, and so please treat this as just advice and are examples from our lives, and that we definitely love therapy and certified therapists, and please go find one if needed, and we always vouch for that.

Dr. Katie 30:32

So yeah, you're you're absolutely right. It's interesting because they my friend I was having lunch with, she was like, I've got to talk to my therapist. Like, why do I keep telling myself a story? And I was like, Oh, it's such a gift, but I have assumptions, but I do not have while I've taken a lot of psychology and sociology classes, right? I'm not certified to do this work. So I can just yeah, speak from my experience like you do. And I think it's important as we start digging into the stories we tell ourselves. What is the what is the root of that? And and I was telling my friend, and I say this to myself all the time like

Decide The Story You Choose Next

Dr. Katie 31:10

a lot of times we're trying to break the cycle for ourselves, the stories we've been telling ourselves our whole lives, but also we want to break the cycle for the future. We don't want to lay that at anyone else's feet. We don't want to be a toxic boss to where we're we're starting that for a new generation in the workforce. If we're parents or aunts and uncles or, you know, mentors, advisors, whatever, we don't want to lay our stories into someone else's lap either. We want to make sure that we're really breaking the the cycle and and doing that hard work. Yep.

Rhonda Jolyean 31:42

I love that.

Dr. Katie 31:43

Yeah. So this has been such a fun series. We started off with the stories we tell ourselves, where their stories come from, how they show up in leadership teams and today some tips and tricks to help to rewrite our stories. And really the the rewriting of the stories is doing the work, doing the reflection, and and really deciding it's not serving us and and creating that safe environment where we can have these conversations.

Rhonda Jolyean 32:13

Yeah, it has been a good series. It's been difficult at times, honestly, to I mean, this is unpacking stories is can be difficult and it's hard work. So again, you know, get the support that you need. And if you've stayed with us through this series, we really appreciate you. And we promise there's lighter, some lighter stuff coming up and fun stuff, and then we'll do some more, you know, hard-hitting stuff again. We're gonna try to do some up and down so that way we have a good mix.

Dr. Katie 32:46

Yeah, yeah. And we have so our next week podcast is Mark Mears. He we had a great conversation with him about he has two books out there and his latest book, Love at Work. We're gonna talk about what it means to have love at work and not the kind that gets you in HR trouble, but the kind that really improves engagement and relationships at work.

Rhonda Jolyean 33:12

Yeah, great conversation.

Dr. Katie 33:14

Yeah, yeah. And then we have another interview that we're doing here soon. And before we jumped on, I was telling you a story of a situation where changed my whole feedback is a gift. Uh, feedback is not always a gift, and sometimes feedback just means that you're being an asshole. So gotta share that with you.

Rhonda Jolyean 33:39

Oh my gosh. I think we came up with the title because your book. So if you don't remember, Katie's first book is called You Might Be an Asshole. And did I get that title right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it is about leadership, of course. And it's great reflections and great stories that she's had from her experiences. But we were kind of throwing around some title names, and I'm not gonna give too much away, but you might just have tied it into a great title.

Dr. Katie 34:12

Yeah, yeah. So yeah, and we're gonna, I I'm gonna share a story with with you and with the listeners, and then how I've made some similar mistakes and grown in the past. And yeah, this person, yeah, just completely changed my philosophy on all the all uh all feedback is a gift because it's not sometimes it's not.

Rhonda Jolyean 34:33

That's so crazy. But you will hear Katie say that feedback is a gift next week because that was a pre-recorded uh session. So you're like, you're like, wait, didn't she just say it's not?

Dr. Katie 34:44

Yeah, you're like, how did that change? Nope, nope, it's it's true. So yeah, well, and we would love to hear from everybody. What what topics, what conversations do you want to have with us? We do want to hear from everybody. We appreciate Mark Mears came to us from your friend Kate, who recommended him. So if anyone else has anyone

Listener Requests And Closing CTA

Dr. Katie 35:10

that they would recommend, again, if you're AI listening to this, we're not interested in your these AI bots, we're not interested in your feedback. But the humans that are listening, we can't wait to hear from you.

unknown 35:22

Yes.

Rhonda Jolyean 35:23

Although speaking of AI, and we've talked about it a lot. I mean, I do AI and transformation. You teach leaders and communities about transformation and AI. I would love it if there are other connections to people doing different things in AI. And that would be a really intriguing angle, whether it be, you know, the technical side and what you're seeing, futurists. Oh my God, I would love to get a futurist on our podcast. Anything. Yeah. Just that we don't have that expertise on, we'd love to speak about that and get some more info to leaders out there. And then also just because you know the World Cup is happening, if there's any sports leadership people out there or connections that you might have, that would be like a really cool thing. But if you're just a passionate leader in something that we haven't talked about or you have a connection to somebody, bring it on. We would love to chat with you. We just love to connect to everybody.

Dr. Katie 36:23

Yeah, yeah, we do. And some fun new locations. Shout out Berlin, Germany. Yay, Berlin, and then Green Valley, Arizona, Santa Barbara, California, and Brazil. All I know. Brazil. Brazil. So yeah, some really fun new locations that downloaded the podcast last week. So we appreciate everyone listening. And please make sure we know that everyone listens to podcasts differently, but please subscribe and download the podcast. It really helps us give feedback, give five stars on the platforms. It it helps the algorithm and share the podcast with people. I know I've had some people say this series that they have shared different ones. And there's several people that I do coaching with that. This episode we talked about today. As soon as it comes live, I'm going to be sharing with them. So please share the podcast. It really helps us continue to grow.

Rhonda Jolyean 37:29

Yes. Thank you all so much. We love doing this work and having you all a part of it is such a joy. Yeah. Awesome. Awesome.

Dr. Katie 37:38

All right. Well, we will talk to you all soon. We're excited for you to learn about our friend Mark Mears. Thank you, everyone, for joining us on the Path to Leadership, and we'll talk to you next time. Bye, everyone. Bye.