Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness

Exploring the Power of Cycles: A Deep Dive into Femininity, Breathwork, and Psychotherapy

• Richard Blake • Season 1 • Episode 8

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Unlock the transformative power of aligning with your natural rhythms! Our enlightening chat with Natalia Blake takes us on a voyage through the often-overlooked female 28-day cycle, laying bare the potential for empowerment it holds. As we unravel the tapestry of societal norms and their conflict with these cycles, Natalia guides us to understand how syncing with the moon's phases can amplify our strength, energy, and focus. We confront the cultural expectations that may stifle this alignment, emphasizing the importance of honoring our cyclical biology for a holistic sense of well-being.

Our episode isn't just about cycles; it's a deep dive into the essence of intuition and the nurturing force of feminine energy. I open up about my transformative experiences with breathwork, ayahuasca, and meditation, and how they've connected me to my innermost voice. Our discussion extends beyond personal anecdotes, addressing how intuition can steer us towards healing and societal progression. Natalia and I also probe into the role of men in embracing the cyclical nature, and how it benefits everyone to harmonize with their inner guidance system.

To cap off this insightful session, we tackle the profound implications of menstrual education in the workplace, the intricate dance with birth control, and the judicious use of fertility tracking apps. We segue into how breathwork, when married with psychotherapy, can significantly uplift mental health. By examining the latest research and sharing personal insights, we reveal how intentional breathing can unlock profound self-awareness and emotional release. Join us for a conversation that promises to leave you with a profound respect for the intimate connection between breath, cycles, and mental wellness.

11.55 - Ref ‘Healing from Healing.’

13.15 - Ref fMRI Scan / EEG showing more activity on the brain when using psychedelics. 
https://www.wired.com/2014/10/magic-mushroom-brain/

14.58 - Ref Temple of the Way of Light - https://templeofthewayoflight.org/

19.31 - Ref research with smokers and psilocybin mushrooms. Plus Michael Poland (How to Change your mind).  - https://michaelpollan.com/

30.55 - reference single parent families and associated statistics - https://ifstudies.org/blog/less-poverty-less-prison-more-college-what-two-parents-mean-for-black-and-white-children

35.05 - negative side effects that Natalia references - https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/290196#side-effects

36.49 - reference study that shows preference for male partner can change for a woman when she is on birth control -
 https://www.vice.com/en/article/xwjngw/birth-control-might-change-who-women-feel-attracted-to


38.18 - link to apps to track cycles - https://www.naturalcycles.com/

46.01 - link to Alan Dolan - https://www.breathguru.com/


55.42 - link to new study you reference on conscious connected breathing - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Relationship-between-end-tidal-CO2-saturation-and-experience-depth-A-Scatter-plot_fig3_378394872




- holistic awakening podcast link - 
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-holistic-awakening-podcast/id1559596866

Instagram @breath_chica

Natalia website link - https://www.nataliaolcoaching.com/


Find us on Instagram
Richard @The_Breath_Geek
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCl_gOq4wzRjwkwdjYycAeng
Webiste - www.TheBreathGeek.com
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Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to Laughing Through the Pain Navigating Wellness with me, andrew E Sam, my co-host, richard Elblake, and today one of my very good friends, natalia Blake, who happens to be Richard's wife. Welcome to the podcast, natalia.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, andy, and thank you, richard for having me.

Speaker 1:

I have to ask are you in the same house or have you gone? To different studios to do this.

Speaker 3:

Okay, good, well, don't argue, yeah this big money goes into this podcast. We've rented out two separate studios. No, it is a coincidence. If you're watching, we do have the same background, we do have the same sort of wall wood paneling, but we are in separate rooms in the house.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Well, natalia, it's lovely to see you. We're going to start off nice and easy. We're going to ask you how do women harness their true power?

Speaker 2:

That is a very powerful question and no one that is easy to answer.

Speaker 2:

But, yeah, I will start by maybe giving you a little background on how I started to learn about feminine power.

Speaker 2:

And basically, when I started my spiritual path and self-development path, I felt very cold to learn about femininity. I felt cold to go to women's circles and also, through plan medicine journeys, I received a message that I needed to connect with my cycle. I was taking birth control at the time, like many women do, like the default to be in birth control, especially like when you are in your early 20s. And yeah, I just received this kind of intuitive message that I needed to connect with my inner rhythms and I had no clue what this meant. Yeah, so what I learned through studying with different teachers, reading different books and my own journey was that I, as a woman, I am a sick little being and when I am living in alignment with that inner rhythm, that's when I can properly harness my inner strength, my power, my kind of feminine strength. Yeah, so, to answer your question, I think the way to harness the power is to live in alignment with our cycles.

Speaker 3:

Live in alignment with our cycles. Okay, so what would not live in alignment with one's cycle? Look like Well, how could people get this wrong?

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So actually it's not necessarily something people as individuals get wrong, but it's more of like a societal conditioning. The world we live in and I hate using the word patriarchal, but the world we live in it's crafted to serve certain purpose, which is the purpose of efficiency, productivity, capitalism and all of those systems are based on the cycle of men. So all beings are cyclical, including men. But men have more of a 24-hour cycle where they wake up, they have certain hormones that make them feel like really energized and focused, and then those hormones continue to rise throughout the day and pick around midday, and then the hormones start to shift and the energy starts to shift, and then, towards the evening, men tend to feel more relaxed, and then that's when they rest. They go home after work, they have dinner and they prepare for sleep. So in a way it's very simple. In a way it's very similar to the female cycle, but it's just happening in one day and women have that kind of cycle of energy and hormones that are happening throughout a 28-day cycle. So modern society is created to fit the cycle of men wake up, go to work every day, be the same or focus every day, be productive every day, go, and then the evening. That's the time where you go home and you cook and you're more relaxed and have time to connect with friends and family. And then the weekend is where you restore. And unfortunately, as much as women want to live according to that cycle, it's just not in alignment with their inner cycle.

Speaker 2:

So the female cycle a way for men to actually understand it is to really look at the moon cycle, because the female menstrual cycle and the moon cycle mirror each other. So if you think of the moon, there's a time of the month where the moon is dark, is the new moon. You can't see her in the sky and I love this because this is really symbolic. She's not shiny, she doesn't have much light, she doesn't have much energy. She's like in this gresting and sleeping face. But then, when the moon starts waxing, it starts to show you some of the light and then you get to enjoy how, every day, it shows you a little bit more, and this is symbolic of the menstrual phase going into the follicular phase. So when women are bleeding, they're in their new moon energy, they're in their restful inward moment of life, and then, when they are in the follicular phase, all their hormones start rising. So this would be similar to how men feel in the morning. It's like ready for the day.

Speaker 2:

So this is how women are feeling for a few days, so when the moon is starting to show some light, and then we get to the full moon period of the cycle, which would be mid-cycle for the menstrual cycle in women, and this is the time of ovulation. This is when the full moon is bright and it's beautiful and you just look at it and you're like, wow, so amazing to look at, it's radiant. So this is how women are feeling during their ovulatory phase. So all their hormones are making them feel strong and outward oriented. They're signaling to their mates hey, I'm ready to procreate, now, let's make a baby. Your hair gets thicker, your ferrimands are emanating from your body to attract the mate, and this is a moment in the cycle when women feel like superwomen. And the archetype of this moment in the cycle is the mother. Yeah, the mother is really pounctiful and she can put herself aside to do everything for everyone else. But this phase is really short. It only lasts for a few days. And this would be maybe when men are in the middle of their work day. They're feeling, on top of things, ready to work out, ready to tackle tasks.

Speaker 2:

And then the last phase of the cycle is the waning moon, or the luteal phase for the menstrual cycle, and this is the time where the moon starts to go back to its cave. I like to call the menstruation phase like the cave time, where you just go inside Again, symbolically the moon it's starting to show every day a little less light Again, symbolic of that pool that is happening from the outside into the inside and the energy at this time is decreasing, the hormones are starting to fluctuate for women, especially if pregnancy hasn't happened after ovulation. So then it's like an emotional and spiritual pull inwards again, and I feel like this is something that is not known in society, not respected in society. This phase of inner winter, inner autumn, inner winter, where it's like the inner landscape is just about letting go and having to move back into that menstrual phase Again, and then the cycle starts right back again and repeats itself every month.

Speaker 2:

So when you think about that concept of that cyclical nature and the way society is designed, you can see how things like the corporate world are no environments where women are going to be able to be themselves fully and thrive using the superpowers that are connected with each phase of the cycle, because this phase is not designed for it. Now, I don't blame men or anyone in particular. I think this is just something that's happened to us as humans. We've disconnected from the earth, we've disconnected from cycles of nature and we've become really disconnected from our natural ways of being, and then that, unfortunately, has affected women more than men. So I hope that's a very complex answer, but I hope it makes sense.

Speaker 3:

That was very good explanation.

Speaker 1:

No, necessarily, yeah necessarily, and I suppose my obvious question is why is more not known about that? Why is more not known about that? Is it because the science is fairly new on it, or have we chosen to ignore it? Or what's going on there?

Speaker 2:

So, from the studies that I've done and things that I've read, my understanding is that all of these really began with the witch hunts and at a time during the 15th century or whatever, where there was this change from humans living in alignment with the earth and practicing earth-based spirituality to then the church coming into place to indoctrinate people, remove people from their inherent power and just utilizing things like fear to divide people and control people.

Speaker 2:

So this was really the moment where we moved from living in communities and sharing the land to feudalism and the land being something that we only had to buy. And this whole redistribution of how we live, basically, which actually ended up in capitalism, really stripped women from their power, from their natural ways of connecting with the earth and living in harmony in communities, to these formats where they were powerless and they basically needed to be with a man in order to survive. And then there were horrific things that happened during the witch hunts, which, yeah, if you read about it, it's really old and horrific all the things that happened, but basically it's indoctrinated people to fear the feminine power, fear the ways of the feminine, and also indoctrinated people subconsciously to suppress those aspects of themselves, whether you're a woman or a man.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, the witch hunts thing has become a little bit of a meme on. I don't know if you know, andy, if you know Healing from Healing, but they're this great Instagram account that kind of pokes fun at everything in the wellness industry and there's a big meme at the moment or he did a series of memes about people saying we are the children of the witches. They couldn't burn, and this is something that comes into spirituality a lot sort of grandiosity people who are just, yeah, wanting to inflate their sense of self-worth and say that they're witches. But it also, yeah, it goes.

Speaker 3:

Taking things back a little bit, I wanted to ask you about the. You said you received messages. So this is something that I hear in spiritual circles. When I got a download, I did ayahuasca and I downloaded this information. Or ayahuasca told me again, I feel like this is like grandiosity is the people who maybe don't have enough self-esteem, self-belief, to say, like I decided I'm going to do this.

Speaker 3:

And they said I got a download from ayahuasca. So that's why I'm not talking to my mother or doubting up a business in Nicaragua and quitting my job as a charter surveyor or whatever. So can you say why it's? You feel like you received it and it wasn't just an idea, because if people have seen the fMRIs on, when someone's on psychedelics, an fMRI functional magnetic resonance machine, other person's brain or any EEG shows huge increase in activity in brain. It's like I'll show you a before and after other person's brain from when they're taking psilocybin mushrooms to normal and there's like a cent more activity. So why is it that you received a download and it wasn't just your brain had this rocket fuel and it created an idea for itself.

Speaker 2:

So, yeah, I really appreciate your views on, like, the science behind psychedelics and definitely I don't want to be speaking in a way that sounds grandiose in any way. I experience with my own healing journey and returning back to my feminine has been one of reconnecting with my intuition. So I think the intuition is just something that's really misunderstood. It's not something that's magical and downloading from the cosmos is actually something quite natural that we all have as just a voice inside ourselves, that it's intuitive and it's communicating with us in a known, rational way. So, for me, when I started to do breathwork, I started to do ayahuasca, I started to meditate. What happened to me was that I started to pay more attention to my intuition, because all these practices connect you more with yourself and connect you more with the aspects of yourself that are inherently natural. So, for me, what happened during that ayahuasca journey? There was a nine day journey we did in Peru at the Shapiro Shamans in. It was that first place we went to Temple of the Way of Light.

Speaker 2:

Temple of the Way of Light. And then it's just beautiful how it happened, like I was just sitting there, it wasn't even during the ceremony, I was sitting afterwards in the sharing circle, and then it was like this, knowing that I just had and this voice in my head that said it's time to let go of first control and you need to connect with your psychos. So I just want to demystify that, like it's not a entity from outside and I definitely think that it was related to me doing ayahuasca, because the ayahuasca is clearing those blocks that are preventing me from already connecting with that which is already within, which is my intuition, a little niggle inside this telling you do this or do that, and it speaks to you in like little whispers. I hope that answers your question.

Speaker 3:

No, it does, and I don't sorry. I just want to say don't dismiss the idea that we are receiving things, because during ayahuasca, I have definitely received messages and it's not like I've received a message from nowhere. There's been an entity in front of me and I've been conversing with it and it has told me things that is very different from, like I just got an idea, I'm going to go move to California, etc. But yeah, I think we should also talk about, you know, about control. We should also talk about that. But, andy, what were you going to say?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was just going to say presumably there's two parts to this as well, because one thing is dialing into your intuition, or perhaps receiving signals from your intuition, or however you think it works conceptually, but it's another thing to go with that right To completely trust that. So is that kind of something you have to work on as well, because I could get a gut feeling, for example, and easily ignore it, right? Is there a sort of second part to that of kind of thinking? This is some intuition I really need to go with?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, absolutely so. This is why I'm so passionate about working with cycles and making people aware of their own cyclical nature, and obviously in particularly women, because their cycles are such a big part of who they are, especially during demonstration years. But I think this also applies to men, because the whole forgetting of the fact that we're cyclical beings and forgetting about cyclical wisdom is also impacted with. Men, like people in general, are disconnected from their intuition because, as a society in general, we have devalued the gifts of the feminine, the gifts of the feminine energy within all of us. So that's why I think it's not just a matter of reclaiming our own inner feminine, whether you're a women or a man, but then cultivating that muscle of trusting the intuition and acting upon what your intuition is, what your intuition is telling you. So, for example, I always have this amazing story from when I first met Alan Dolan, my mentor. I did a breathwork session with him and, again, breathwork is a practice that it's very good in helping you connect with your intuition, because it's plugging you back into yourself through your breath. And I had this session with him where I again felt like I received this message.

Speaker 2:

I don't necessarily think it was coming from like a God or the universe. It was more just like an internal knowing. This said to me this person will be your mentor and you will work with him. And it was just like this really simple sentence, deep knowing inside, and I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then later on, there were situations and opportunities and open up, when Alan started his training program, and then later on, when we connected to work together where you know, presented with opportunities to train with him and work with him, and then I followed that intuition and said yes to those things and it ended up being something that feels like it's my destiny, that I'm doing something I was destined to do. So question is a practice, I think, first to connect with your intuition, to connect with your inner feminine, to become more aware of your inner cycles, and then taken to practice and working that muscle of trusting.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and there's that research done on smokers with psilocybin mushrooms and the Poland talks about it in how to change your mind. And we, when we went to see Michael Poland speak, he shared this story of someone who is wanted to quit smoking, knew smoking was bad, but then he did mushrooms and it was just like the voice that said I need to stop smoking, which is amplified so much. It was just like, oh yeah, of course I need to stop smoking. Why am I still smoking? And it's just. I guess we're going to need to figure these things out more in the research as time goes on and on. But yeah, it's just, the weight of the insights you get with psychedelics and on breathwork just seem to be so much more weighty and profound and then they lead to actual changes in people's lives.

Speaker 3:

Yes, so going back to what you were just saying there about devaluing of the feminine or devaluing the role of the mother, I think what we I think that's really important. I totally agree that we both, we need to both like give more opportunities to women to be the CEO's, president, so King in STEM, etc. And also the existential crisis for humanity is the declining birth rates. You know, one of many existential crises and, as we, we really do need to get back up to the replacement rate of 2.1 children per family and if we're just saying like it is not valuable, you know to start your own business. That's what we need. We need more businesses, more women owned businesses like well, sweet, maybe get to a point where there's too many women owned businesses and not enough families. So I think it's really important to stress how amazing it is to be a mother and how vital and it is for humanity.

Speaker 2:

So what comes to mind is again coming back to cyclical wisdom, like I think we are in a moment in society where women are being faced with either or I either need to kind of feel my passion and be independent and have my business and work and be a part of the workforce and be part of society, or I need to be a mom and give my passion up. Or if I want to do both, then I'm going to be one of those moms who is maybe super powerful at the workplace they've been, you know is struggling at home or has to rely too much on nannies and they care for their kids, which has consequences for the development of the children. So, again going back to before capitalism, where we lived in communities and women were doing things that were valuable. They were weaving baskets for a collection of food and they were taking care of the men, they were cooking, they were gathering herbs, they were the healers, they were like, they had seriously valuable roles in communities and then, also because they were doing those roles in alignment with their cycles, they then have the space to then attend to the family and to the children and it was just so hard. It is, in such high regard, you know, allured and respected, and now we are in a moment in time where I feel like women are trying to reclaim that. I think you know, equal rights women can do whatever they want. They can be independent, they can literally like we live in the best moment in life, like women can do whatever they want.

Speaker 2:

But I think for me, the next step is actually like how can we go back to those ways of the feminine, of living in community with our men, you know, in the right polarity, in the right share of roles within the family, within the community, where we as women feel valued and we feel like we're doing the things we love? Like, for a teacher, you want to be teaching. If you are, you know. You want to be writing stories, if you are, you know, a signer, you want to be designing clothes, like you need to do and share your gifts, because that's such an important part of happiness, I think, to share your creativity. But also, specifically for women, I think it's very important that the diversity of like receiving is so important for women.

Speaker 2:

So I'm not convinced of like how things are right now for women in the modern world. Like I definitely don't feel very cold to like CEO or you know the way through the corporate world, like there's never been something that I've been interested in. But you know my own alignment, with my own rhythms. I do want to experience success. I do want to share my gifts and my creativity and I do want to have status and be valued in society and I don't want any of that to take away from you. Know the way in my family and my relationship with my husband, and you know care of my parents when they grow old.

Speaker 2:

So I really feel like this is possible and I think it's just. We need to start by learning how we are cyclical beings, how women and men are different and how we can work with one another, understanding our differences. Like it's taken me years to have Richard notification on his phone from when I on my green days on my cycle, like signaling hey, I'm about to get my period and now, like you know, I'm very tired and this is this time of the month. So it's been really useful since you've started paying attention to that be like oh, I've got an notification that you're in this moment of your cycle and it just feels like breath and be like Okay, someone gets what's going on with me right now.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think you should explain how you see the problems. Well, we'll come on to that. But I want to fight something for the listeners, because I think what your position is on sort of hierarchy and capitalism is not that you know, these things were terrible and it's been awful for everyone and we should tear the system down and go back to living in in tribes and feudalism. Your position is I think you said it there is like best time to be alive ever. You know, poverty rates are at record lows, life expectancy is at highs. It's just that we also now need to include appreciation of the feminine and appreciation of the feminine cycles and turn that in rather than just destroy capitalism because, you know, just go back to living in tribes. I'm saying that on time.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I think it's just. We've swung from one extreme to the other and now we're just evolving into a more like middle ground where our life, you know the way, technology and all the advanced advancements and the independence that individuals have, and freedom, and we can increase sustainability by incorporating these missing pieces.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, okay, great. So birth control, tell us one.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, go on, andy. Sorry, mate, I completely cut across you. My final question on this corporate world versus women able to tune into their cycles and better maximize them to unlock their power. I know a couple of. Well, they're not going to be able to change the structure of the corporate world immediately. Are there any kind of handy tips or things to be mindful of when they're operating in this kind of environment?

Speaker 2:

Yes, I love that question, andy, because, again, I don't think women should leave the corporate world if they don't want to like if they're passionate about it. I think for me it's all about education. I think we need to educate corporations, men in corporations and women that there are these cycles that are happening for women and that if you actually pay attention to that, you can actually harness the power of your workers. Because you know in your team who are over 18, they're going to be crushing it when they're doing presentations or sales, you know, in a very magnetic energy, whereas women who are in their little phase, in the waning moon phase, you know going to be great at like doing and coming to a completion with projects and you know the bullshit from anyone. That's kind of like the energy of the feminine coming through.

Speaker 2:

And then when women straighten maybe those two, three days that their energy is really low, maybe letting them work from home, hey, you don't need to push yourself on those three days, like, just take it a little bit easier home and also acknowledge that this is a time in the cycle where women are very like to intuition, so it's a really good time to make decisions.

Speaker 2:

So, if you're a woman in your team and there's a decision that you're needing to make about. You know where the business is going or where the corporation is going. You know, you, the women in your team, like doing about this during your bleed so that you get you're calling in that feminine intuition and value in it and be like, really, I really value your inner oracle for way. So the education, for sure, I think would be the first step. And then women themselves who are in the corporate world, tuning into their own cycle and then listening how am I feeling during the different phases and what steps do I need to make to support myself. Doing the different phases Like that would be like a very good first step.

Speaker 1:

Yes, love the answer Okay.

Speaker 3:

Birth control Tell us the problems with birth control.

Speaker 2:

Okay, so I just want to start by saying that birth control is something that it's helped us as as humans, you know, to the touch of our fertility and our vision. It's definitely, you know, and it's empowered a lot of women to be able to.

Speaker 3:

Well, the thing that people Chris Whidden talks about this a lot is, like, you know, one from the sexual revolution. Was it men or was it women? And the people tend to say, well, we don't really know. They kind of made it one in that men are able to have sex with women and then not have to be responsible for care and women can have sex with men. You know why are you getting pregnant, specifically about birth control. But the sexual revolution. People say who, who, and they say, yeah, we don't know. But we know who lost, and that's the children. Because we have single parent families these days. And coming from a single parent family, then you statistics like more likely to end up in prison and graduate from college If you come from a single family home, you're more like increases in dropout rates, drug addiction rates, crime rates, depression, everything increases when you come from a single parent home. So that's why people say that the children have seemingly lost from the sexual revolution. But that, yeah, that's not specifically about birth control, is it? But carry on, natalia.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, thank you for sharing that. So I feel like I have mixed feelings about contraception and birth methods, because I do see the the value that they've provided in a way, you know pregnancies and wanted pregnancies and giving people the choice of knowing what they want to do with their fertility. And again it comes back to because we have birth control these has meant a huge lack of education around women's cycles. So nowadays, when you're a teenager and again this goes back to the witch hunts and the fear inflicted by the church into humans about like sexuality and then women being like the symbol of sexuality and something to that's being something to fear so a woman comes into her puberty. This is when she gets her period and this means it's a huge initiation because this means you're now able to bear a child, you're entering into your young womanhood. Yeah, and you know of educating women on the different phases of the cycle Instead of educating women on how to measure their fertility. Signs through natural methods like knowing where your cervix is in your uterus during each time of the cycle is a way to know when you're fertile. Learning to read your vaginal fluids to see you know when the foretelling you your fertile. So all these like signs of your body. This is how, in ancient times, women will recall their fertility and control their fertility, and this was a tool of self empowerment to be able to know your body, to know your cycles and to be in charge of your fertility.

Speaker 2:

But now, because there's this huge fear of periods is like a taboo topic. There is this huge, you know, transsexuality and cycle and femininity is, like you know, kind of shameful, kind of taboo thing. What happens is young women get their periods and mothers, unfortunately, who have been indoctrinated by the church and who have been supported in their cyclical nature themselves, then they act as if, like this is something to be really worried about oh, you're in your period, so let's control immediately so that you make sure you're not going to have, you're not going to become a teenage mom, you're not going to have sex when you are, you know, 50 pregnant. So it's like, at the point where these like initiations happening and we should have like a right of passage for young girls around womenhood, instead we're giving them birth control, and birth control what it's doing is messing up with their natural hormones.

Speaker 2:

So it's it's kind of like a natural cycle that is so necessary for your well being and, to kind of wrap up, what we're talking about is also disconnecting you from that inner rhythm which then is a source of your intuition and inner knowing. So it's like, you know, when they're young, like cutting them from their power, like really like at the beginning of when things are starting to happen for them. So what happens with this is women tend to be on birth control for like 10 years, you know, up until like 30, they're starting to think about having kids and then, when they get off birth control, their health it's all over the place. They have all sort of like from you know periods, pms, inks and all of these like different fecal connected with you know, a cycle that is that hasn't been attended to for 10 years and that has been effectively suppressed.

Speaker 1:

I'm assuming that the answer, then, is just better education Paige. Is it important or have we all got responsibility to get this information out there?

Speaker 2:

I think it's like it's education, but I think it's also like individual, like self-examination of how each of us is actually perpetuating this, whether you're a woman or a man. How do you act around women when they're on their period? How do you act around young girls when they're in purity? If you're a mom, you know what are you around these topics Like? You know how first period, like who was the poor you? Did you have any kind of shame around that experience and did you receive messages that your sexuality was something to fear, that you were just, you know, working in a straightaway if you had sex and that you should never have sex? So I think it's a combination of education and then self-examination, so that we can kind of like eat ourselves from these commissioning and then just embrace it as part of life and something normal and something, yeah, natural.

Speaker 3:

There's that amazing study, or apparently a variety of studies, that show that being on birth control can change a woman's preference for men. So what can happen is what the birth control pill is doing is it's kind of mimicking pregnancy, and when a woman's pregnant, they may, they will have different preferences for a man. They'll probably want a man who's more loyal and maybe, you know, attractive and maybe less dominant and things like that. And at least facials people's preference for facial symmetry changes and people's preferences for different smells also change when they're on birth control. And so the the game of this is like you, as a woman, be on birth control, be attracted to a man, get married to this man and then come off birth control and you're like, oh god, I don't really like this guy. What have I done? One of the dangers. There are many other effects, I'm not sure people know, but yeah, from pain, depression, mood changes, high blood pressure, blood clots, numitting, there's all sorts of side effects of birth control. So what is the solution then, natalia?

Speaker 2:

So I think the solution for me is your cycle, from a young age Now a lot of apps out there like natural cycles or flow that, where you can record your temperature every day and as a little like journal entry every day, where you can record how you're feeling, how your body's changing every day of your cycle, and it's just honestly like an amazing tool for self-knowledge, like to check in with yourself every day, and it's insane to see the fluctuations of energy and emotions and physical sensations during the cycle. It's insane. It's like, wow, I'm so different from day three to day 20. I'm a different person, right? If you know yourself, if you know how to read your body, you are ultimately more empowered in every single way. Because you know yourself, you know when you're going to be eatable, you know the kind of going to need when you're on your period, you're going to know when, if you're looking to get pregnant, you know exactly when to try and make a baby. So I think it's like a very strong empowerment tool that is not shared enough.

Speaker 2:

Like I've done so many things, like I've done meditation, breath work, plant medicine, I'm studying psychotherapy. Like I'm doing all this thing and still my number one thing that I do every single day, that I never miss is my menstrual cycle journaling, which is just a journaling practice that I'm counting the days of my cycle. So I will write an entry and says day one Today I started my bleed. This is how I'm feeling physically, emotionally and spiritually, and then I journal about whatever is going on in my mind and it's so interesting to see the different patterns that arise for me. And then I see you know the things I need to work on or things that I'm doing better. It's just like a really simple example.

Speaker 1:

There I mean obviously very passionate about this and very knowledgeable about this and because I did the introduction that we've got so far into the show without actually knowing what you do. But agrotherapy and the breath work how much of a role does this play in what you do, or would you like it to play in what you do, or is it kind of an interest?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think these kind of waves itself into my at times is definitely not the main thing I do, but it's definitely a lens that I see things through.

Speaker 2:

So, when with women, I you know do breathing and coaching and I hold a lens of okay, where is this person in their cycle, how are they disconnected from their feminine power, and it's it's not into the space directly, but I think it will come indirectly, unless the person is wanting to work on that specifically with me.

Speaker 2:

Yes, I try to provide support around this or be more of an active voice about. It is in my women's circles, so men's group that I run with one of my friends here in the Bay Area and I'm definitely, you know, trying to bring pigs in these issues into the circle. And I think that, even if it's not like part of my work, I'm doing it on the side but it's part of my mission, right, like I'm bringing it in in some way. And then previously, before I started my masters, I was also running groups online. So I was combining, you know, the practice of work with the exploration of these topics to again help women and reconnect with their natural rhythms and explore their femininity and the wounds around being a woman and I'm definitely really passionate about that and I want to continue doing it. I just don't know how it's going to manifest in the future.

Speaker 3:

Nice and also just going back to and I think it's also important for people to understand that you know these apps are sent reliable. I have heard people say oh yeah, I thought and it said I was on green and my partner X and and in way and we got it. So it's important when Natalia and I use this, we are super careful. We don't take any risks during the days and I think even when it's on, like the board of red and green, we take an extra step. That first green day and that last green day we avoid a true like a condom or something like that or not getting inside. Sorry if this is too graphic, you've got children around, but I just, if you have got children around, I just want to make sure you don't get any more that you don't want.

Speaker 2:

So I want to. Yeah, I just want to clarify that it's a personal journey for everyone. And if you don't feel like I've become really comfortable with this because I've been doing it for like since then I really trust my body and the signals that I receive from my body and then I discern and then also I am, you know, in my life where you know Rich, and I definitely don't want to have a child just yet because I'm waiting to finish my masters. But let's say we have an accident. It wouldn't be the end of the world, like we're, you know, deep into a very stable also you know some point. So be adapted with your own journey.

Speaker 2:

And again, if you don't want to have kids, then use a condom or use other methods to not get pregnant, but just touching on sex, like it's like treated as the very important act that it is, you know, and contraception is like whatever they could pay you and do whatever we want, it's like actually it's up for your body. And if you want to enjoy sex and really experience the pleasure and the joy of intimacy without getting pregnant, then you're going to need to learn your shit, learn your cycle, learn your signs and use condoms or done exactly inside and no, you know, that's how it's a naturally like having sex when we're, you know, taking the pill, maybe just like coming inside all the time like that, the way he was in the, you know, in ancient time. A very important act and it should be approached in such respect.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no solutions, only trade offs.

Speaker 1:

Exactly there we go Good phase damage. Yes, thanks, good summary.

Speaker 3:

I came up with it myself, my adrichard, that's a Christian one. Okay, andy, anything else you want to talk about here? Or should we move into sort of breath work and psychotherapy?

Speaker 1:

I would like to move into breath work and psychotherapy.

Speaker 3:

Okay, natalia, move into breath work and psychotherapy Go.

Speaker 3:

Okay, I'm thinking my breath work is studying her masters at the California Institute of Integral Studies, where I'm also studying my PhD, and she is also a breath work teacher trainer. She goes back to Spain to work with Alan Dolan, the breath guru, who we are closely affiliated with and who will come on this podcast at some point. So, Natalia, breath work and psychotherapy they're similar but they're different. How do you see these two working together to create a brighter future for mental health practitioners around the world?

Speaker 2:

This is a very good question because I feel like breath work is such a powerful healing modality. But I think that is what it is it's a healing modality. It's an alternative way of healing oneself. The problem with that is that it's a lot more powerful than people realize and receive so much from it. But really I think it's something that I see people using for a certain amount of time to kind of go through a journey, and this is what I did when I did my training. Effectively, I was breathing for six months, not a stop, in these deep healing sessions where I was able to clear a lot of my emotional baggage, I was able to reconnect with my intuition, I was able to crown into my body, come into my body and being who I am stepducity. Now I feel like for me, you can have one breath of session and that can be enough. You know you can go to a breath of end and have a blissful experience and have insights, efficient. You can look from that.

Speaker 2:

But for me, because of my journey, I saw it more as like a journey where I started to breathe and I developed this practice and I worked with practitioners and then it was like taking me on this journey? Yeah, so when I first started working with people, this is what I was offering to my clients. You know I went into some kind of journey with themselves through the breath because also, as probably if you know and you consciously did breathing is a technique that it takes a little while to master. So I think that if you just do it once, you may feel a little awkward. So if you practice several weeks with a practitioner, then it's like you drop into it and it becomes easier. So I want to take people through these journeys.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and with my coaching background, I was doing a combination of coaching and breathwork to support people and what I noticed is it was extremely effective to guide people through the breath and then use coaching tools to kind of help them make sense of rules coming up, to coach them around. You know issues and the day they needed to sit with and process, and that really inspired me to work about the psychology and like the foundation of. You know how the site actually works, how the site deals itself after adverse events or emotional disruptions, and what I learned in my journey was that the power of the breath is so powerful and in fact, what ended up happening was that in some of my sessions with clients they're like deeper than what I could hold. Yeah, like the breath is so powerful it can take you to the depths of your being and it can also bring up trauma if you are someone who suffers from trauma. So I started to see some signs that were informing me like okay, if people in these journeys you need to have like wider skills on how to hold space for people in a therapeutic setting.

Speaker 2:

So that was my initial during my master's in psychotherapy and definitely I see going forward a similar combination of breath work, medicine and psychotherapy integrated as one to help people throw a long term journey into healing was transforming themselves. That journey wasn't easy for me. I feel like breath work, the way it is packaged in today's illness world, is as a quick fix and it's also packaged as a quick certification. Like you know, get your three months like six months and then you know.

Speaker 1:

I'm nodding to you while you've been talking, natalia, because it's so real to hear that you're doing the psychotherapy piece alongside the breath work. Because, just to talk very briefly about my own experience, rich sent me as he does.

Speaker 2:

I see you everywhere. He sent me everywhere.

Speaker 1:

He sent me to see Alan Dolan, probably the best part of 10 years ago for a one to one session 10 years ago no About that. And I was completely overwhelmed with what happened. And you talk about the journey and I am not going to see my teeth. I sweated profusely, I felt aches and pains leave my body. I felt tears leave my body and at the end I almost just blurted out all this stuff that I didn't even know I was going to say and for me Alan Dolan was a complete stranger before the hugged him and I just wanted to like completely share stuff that just felt completely like you know, it was pouring out of me. So I spoke more about how the breath actually accesses this stuff. What is actually happening? What is the journey?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing your, your lyrics and the, and I'm glad you have. Our experience is amazing.

Speaker 3:

I send you to the best places.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I'm just looking forward to my next mission.

Speaker 2:

That's what Richard loves to do. He just loves to tell you where to go, but we should all listen to him. He's very, very nice. The time is right.

Speaker 3:

Thank you. Yeah, the camera's recorded. He's going to replay it back every time we get him an argument.

Speaker 2:

I think you know this is my inner dilemma is, you know, it's like training. You're probably going to be okay at hosting a one to one session with anyone, regardless of what it comes, and you support the person. But it's more when you establish a relationship with the client and you do several sessions with them, that I think that's when the even more therapeutic, when you're creating that between facilitator and client and where I feel more of the healing can happen because the space becomes bigger. But just to answer to your question, what do I think happens? Well, I'm not 100% sure.

Speaker 2:

Like you know, part of it is, I think, the birth is helps us access and non-ordinary state of consciousness and you know, at the, at the physical level, we are able to move our energy in different ways.

Speaker 2:

Our body is kind of releasing 10, rearranging. I also have a background in energy work, I'm a rekey master. So I I get, when someone is breathing, their energy to be is shifting and things are rearranging. And then emotionally, because we are in this non-ordinary state of consciousness and the prefrontal cortex gets down, regulated, we are then able to access suppressed emotions, things that we, you know, have maybe didn't have time to process during childhood or, you know, during our recent events in our lives.

Speaker 2:

And and then it's thing that I love about conscious, committed breathing is that it's it's some mental, in the sense that it's wise, because it's working with your body. So I do believe that breath is not going to give you more than what you're able to handle and, that being said, that is not an excuse to you, know, to tell people like, continue breathing through whatever is coming through, like, no, like we need to be transforming, to be, you know, aware of, like people's nervous systems and how they're coming away or out of the window of tolerance and and many things that we need to consider as facilitators. But yeah, you were.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I was just going to say a new study last week that I'll probably do a video on, but it was being because, well, robin Carhart was involved in it. He is sort of the head of researcher Imperial College London, one of the most famous people in that space, and now he's getting into breath work as well. He wasn't the first person, first name on the study but he was involved and one of the interesting things there is they measured end title CO2 in breath people doing conscious connected breath work and holotropic breath work and end title CO2 is the maximum concentration of carbon dioxide at the end of an exhaled breath. So what, basically they found? They found a direct correlation between the lower someone's end title CO2 was the deeper the level of their experience. So they did something really interesting in. They used like a hand signal to go in to people doing these breath works and they would ask them how deep is your perceived experience? You know level I'm not really level to is. I'm feeling a little bit altered up to level five. I'm off with the fairies, I'm, I'm off my ancestors. I'm having a full blown mystical experience. And they checked in with people like every 15 minutes, just going up to them, asking them testing their end title CO2 and asking them for a hand signal. And yet they really showed that basically, the harder people were breathing, the more carbon dioxide they were blowing off, the more they were going into this deeper experience, and not only, like you might think, ok, well, great, they've had a mystical experience. You know why don't you just go get drunk and end or take MDMA at a festival. You know that can also have you a really deep experience.

Speaker 3:

They also tested depressive symptoms a week after the study and they found that the deeper the level of persons experience was during the breath work, the greater their reduction in depressive symptoms. So for breath workers, yes, definitely there is. It's important to say, like you know, don't push their trauma, don't have them lead to emotional flooding. But I think there is also on the other side. We need to make sure if, because when you are a breath worker you'll notice some people really go for it and they're probably fine if they're really in for it, they're going to have a good experience. But there are a lot of people who don't really breathe very much. They have these little little mouse and then they're like our breath work doesn't really work for them. Those are the people we've already got to push, because clearly here the harder people are breathing, the greater the level of depressive symptoms and reduction they're getting.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, yeah, it's a fine balance. I love that study that you shared, rich, and I definitely think that, again, that's part of becoming a skilled facilitator to know when you need to lead someone into continuing to breathe and push through the discomfort and when you need to take a step back and help the person regulate and stabilize. But, yeah, another thing that I love about the breath is, you know, it really helps us connect with our intuition and our more authentic selves. There is something that happens, and I think this is because maybe when we're on our day to day, we're like stuck in our heads, and then when we breathe, the breath work is an embodiment practice, so it's bringing our attention more into our bodies, and when we're more into our bodies, we are more relaxed, we start feeling safe, and that also allows us to observe our defenses, observe our illusions and thoughts, narratives that are really playing a role in our lives, and it just it gives you a little bit of a space, I guess in the same way that meditation does, where you can observe what's going on versus identify with yourself.

Speaker 2:

But I think with breath work it happens in a very different way, like to me it's almost like you're in trance, whereas in meditation it feels a lot more like you're just practicing or returning back to your awareness, observing, returning back to your awareness, whereas in breath, because you are in this autopilot reset mode, you are in this non-ordinary state of consciousness, it's almost like the breath it's happening on its own. When you are, your awareness is like somewhere else, which I think is different from meditation, and to me that is a lot more trippy. It's a more of a like trippy experience. But again it's like we're working with the person in a very delicate state. They're very deep in their inner world. So it requires a lot of skill and experience to be able to make sure that we're holding that person, being aware of their mind body, their physical body, emotional body, their spiritual body, their energetic body, like what's really going on, and to be able to, like, read the energy and also work intuitively.

Speaker 1:

Is there any research to do with the impact of breath work and how often you've done it? Because, for example, when I was first doing it, I couldn't afford to concentrate on anything but the technique that I've just been taught. So my mind was completely clear of anything else because I wanted to get the breath right. But I suppose if you've done it 150 times that will come more naturally and maybe your mind will wander. So I wonder if the impacts more for a beginner or not.

Speaker 3:

Yes, Guam has done a study on this. It was Anna Aliyoup for me.

Speaker 1:

It wasn't supposed to be. I don't know the answer.

Speaker 3:

I can show off how much I know about breath work, research. Yeah, guam from.

Speaker 3:

Saber at University did a study showing that breath work was dose dependent, ie the more breath work you do, the greater the levels of symptom reduction. However, my study did not find the same thing. My study was so. Guam basically looked at holotropic breath work and how many sessions of holotropic breath work they were doing. In holotropic breath work you do anywhere from like an hour to three hours of breath work. It's a really long process, whereas, of course, my study, we did six weeks of 90 minute sessions where people were breathing from between 30 and 50 minutes. I also had a covariate in my study, meaning I tested whether or not anxiety symptoms went down before and after the six week course. But then I also wanted to measure how much it changed by how frequently people did the breath work. So I gave people a 10 minute recording that they were to do on their own at home every day, because we were only breathing in a group once per week. So I expected that if people did it every day, did 10 minutes every day, their anxiety symptoms would go down more than the past participants who only did it once a week and it was optional. I said to people do this as much as you like or as little as you like. We want to test all different outcomes and we found there was no difference between the groups. There was no difference between the groups who only did the 90 minute workshop and the people who did both the 90 minute workshop and 10 minutes every day.

Speaker 3:

Few conclusions there could be. 10 minutes is just not enough to get into the deeper mechanisms of breath work. You need to do at least 20 minutes or at least half an hour to get any of the benefits. It could also be that the breath work technique is so difficult that you can't do it without a live facilitator telling you connect your breath again, relax that exhale, taking a bigger inhale, because this technique is so complicated and when you are in that sort of altered state it's very difficult to maintain the breathing rhythm. It could be that just yeah, a recording is not good enough for that.

Speaker 3:

But then another study was done recently where they did just you recordings. They did 45 minutes of a recording and they did that to make sure that everyone had the same experience, because if you're doing a live session in my breath work study sometimes people got more feedback than others. Sometimes we had groups of four, sometimes we had groups of 26. So there would be a little bit of interference there. And these people in the study where they were doing recordings, they did get really good breath work feedback and they did get reduction in symptoms. Then another hypothesis could be there's like a saturation effect of if you do one big workshop, that's you've got all the benefits you're going to get from breath work and doing 10 minutes every day you're not going to get any reduction in anxiety symptoms. The other thing to say is I only measured anxiety. Maybe if it was depression, maybe if it was PTSD, doing 10 minutes every day would have reduced PTSD symptoms or would have reduced anxiety or would have reduced addictive symptoms.

Speaker 1:

For what it's worth, I subscribe to. The 10 minutes isn't enough.

Speaker 3:

I'm in that camp. Yeah, that is one of the things I've said in my study. My dissertation is I tend to find people it's about 30 minutes, that's when I find people crack, that's when I find people have the emotional release, is the mystical experiences, and that 30 to 50 minute period is when the magic's happening.

Speaker 1:

Natalia, I wanted to ask you what is next for you in the psychotherapy space You're studying at the moment. What's next?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so thank you for asking. Yeah, what's next for me is practicum, actually. So I am in my third year of psychotherapy school and I'm currently applying to do my clinical practice. My clinical placements somewhere in the Bay Area, and I'm applying now to hopefully start in the summer or fall of this year and then I will be in a proper clinic for nine to 12 months seeing clients, applying all the tools that I've learned in the last two years, working with a supervisor and getting my hours which can then be used for pursuing licensure.

Speaker 2:

If I decide to pursue licensure, depending on where we are in the world, which opera really pursue licensure. But it will just be a matter of figuring out which license, depending on where we are, if we're in the US or back in Europe or somewhere else in the US. But yeah, it's an exciting time. I feel like I've been a little bit in the cave for the past year, just studying, not doing too much work, just hiding a little bit, like just in my own internal process. And now I feel like, with the spring coming, it's also like the energy of my gifts are starting to come up again, like getting ready to be used again.

Speaker 1:

Awesome, and what? At what point do you have to make your kind of specialism or what is it? Is it talking psychotherapy, and will you be practicing anything else and what are you interested in that regard?

Speaker 2:

Here in the US you go for the MFT license, which is marriage and family license, therapy license and you need to do some hours with individuals, families and kids to know how to work, doing talk therapy with those groups of people. And then within therapy, there are many things you can specialize in, like you can work with kids, work with teenagers. You can specialize in trauma. You can specialize in couples therapy. For me, I really want to keep it open to all groups, like I would love to do individuals and couples and even families and I want to definitely specialize myself more on trauma and working with trauma. I like also art therapy, non-directive play therapy, things like that. But I don't have a strong preference. I think that because of my background with coaching and breath work and I don't know, like a spiritual background, I feel like my style is going to be very relational and transpersonal. I'm going to be bringing that spiritual lens with whoever I work with, for sure.

Speaker 2:

Like a mind-body-speedy approach like integrative.

Speaker 3:

Nice, yeah, so the moment you are, you obviously are studying full-time in the US and you, if people wanted to work with you, they can't unfortunately at the moment, but you do go back for retreats in Spain, in Lanzarote, with Alan Dolan. So if people are wanting to learn more about Natalia's work and work with her, they can go to breathgurucom to look at Alan's teacher training when Natalia is involved. And where else can people find you? You have a podcast as well, don't you?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I do have a podcast, the Holistic Awakening podcast, and it's about the experience of conscious awakening and it's designed to support people in their journeys of awakening and it's more. It's very conversational and we talk about topics like the things we talked about today, actually. And yeah, people can find me on Instagram, at redchica, or my website is nataliaolcoachingcom, although my website is being redesigned. But, yeah, the best way to think that with me is through my podcast and Instagram.

Speaker 3:

Nice.

Speaker 1:

All right, how do we find us Reg?

Speaker 3:

How do we find us? We are laughing through the pain, navigating wellness. That's the podcast, and Andy has. Has LinkedIn come along at all? Not yet.

Speaker 1:

No, it hasn't Trying to build anticipation right, yeah, yeah. I'm actually. My WhatsApp's been blowing up with random questions from people I don't know who are listening to it and I was just touching them and then like asking you all these technical questions. So I've been shielding that for the time being. Yeah, building the WhatsApp audience, but I will get on to LinkedIn pretty soon.

Speaker 3:

Okay, nice, I'm on Instagram. I'm pretty active over there. I am the underscore breath underscore geek. And yeah, I'm at wwwrichardlblakecom. Don't forget the L, the one. I live a difference. There is a Dr Richard Blake out there. He's not as funny as I thought. Oh, actually.

Speaker 1:

Okay, so it wasn't necessary, Jake.

Speaker 3:

Yes, there is. I'm not a doctor, though, remember. I'm a PhD. So, yeah, not yet Give it a few months, and then there will be two Dr Richard Blake's rampaging around the world.

Speaker 1:

We should get him on.

Speaker 3:

We should get him on. We'll have a fight.

Speaker 1:

If only to find out who's the better doctor.

Speaker 3:

Who's the better one? Yeah, who's the better? Richard Blake, yes, okay, thank you, listener and subscribe. Write us a review. Don't tune out. I know a lot of you tune out when I ask you to write a review.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, write a review, write a five star review, or if it's a bad review, write it.

Speaker 2:

I will write you a five star review. You write me a decent five star review.

Speaker 3:

I wrote you a great review. I'll write you a review.

Speaker 2:

Your review was a disgrace.

Speaker 3:

My review said something like great podcast.

Speaker 2:

Five stars.

Speaker 3:

That's all you need. Listen, I'll take that.

Speaker 2:

I'll write more eloquent reviews. It wasn't like a really like heartfelt one. No, it wasn't, and it wasn't from you. Okay, I will.

Speaker 1:

I will. I will do a very eloquent and thorough review. A five star review and also, natalia, I want to say thank you very much for coming on. I think it's always been a pleasure talking to you. I look forward to seeing you in a month I hope in person in the US of A, if we can make that work, yeah. And the world needs more people like you, healing in lots of different ways, healing and educating. So thank you.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much. Make sure we just hold hands and then sing some Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1:

I've got dinner plans Make a what. Leave you to it.

Speaker 3:

Do it in person. We could do a sing along, all right. Thanks very much for listening and, yeah, thanks so much for coming on, natalia.

Speaker 1:

See you soon. Okay, bye, bye.