Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
Welcome to Laughing Through the Pain: Navigating Wellness. A podcast about the wellness industry, breathwork, bio-hacking, exercise, and mental health. Designed to help regular people and practitioners find their way through the confusing, conflicting, and often untrustworthy world of wellness. While at the same time trying to make you laugh. Hosted by Richard and Andy. Richard Blake, AKA the Breath Geek, is a PhD psychologist, breathworker, bio-hacker, and amateur CrossFit athlete. Andy, aka the the funny one, has his bachelor's in psychology and helps to avoid the curse of knowledge by asking the questions the experts don’t think to answer. They want to help you avoid making the same mistakes they made while trying to make their way through all things wellness - subscribe and like the podcast now.
Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
Radical Takes on Trauma Healing with Harry Turner
Can trauma really be a stepping stone to spiritual growth? Join us for an enlightening session with Harry Turner, the nocturnal therapist, as he unpacks his unique approach to emotional healing. With a foundation built on polyvagal theory and enriched by his Southern Baptist upbringing, Harry’s methods challenge conventional therapy norms. From demanding more of his clients to being present during their darkest moments, Harry’s holistic approach offers a fresh, sometimes tough, perspective on achieving profound healing.
Living authentically remains a cornerstone of our conversation. Together with Harry, we dissect the essence of truth, the role of the ego, and the impacts of societal conditioning. Highlighting quotes from celebrated thinkers like George Bernard Shaw and Lao Tzu, we emphasize the power of striving beyond societal norms to find one’s true self. As we discuss cause and effect, universal laws, and fear’s hindrance to authenticity, we aim to provide listeners with actionable insights for personal transformation.
Our compelling talk wraps up with a deep dive into the nature of pain, shame, and the modern mental health crisis. By exploring cultural attitudes towards suffering and the impact of early traumatic experiences, we shed light on the importance of acceptance and clarity in the healing journey. Harry’s focus on radical acceptance and the need for early mental health education underscores the episode's concluding message: embracing one's vulnerabilities and authenticity leads to genuine healing and self-actualization. Prepare for a thought-provoking episode that promises to reshape your approach to emotional and spiritual well-being.
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All right, hello, hello.
Speaker 2:Andy.
Speaker 1:Hello mate. How are you doing? I'm good, thanks. How are you listener?
Speaker 2:Great Glad to hear it. Great conversation. Football didn't come home, did it, Mitch? Let's be honest. No, I just don't.
Speaker 1:I'm still a much and you live with it. On the Spanish, I do, and I'm going to Spain next week to see the Spaniards and have it rub them, then rub it in my face. No, I'm sure they'll be fine and polite. But yeah, we're not here to talk about about football. We are here to talk about how to heal from emotional devastation of football. How to get over losing to spain and losing another fight. No, we're not here. What are we here for today?
Speaker 2:well, we had a bit of a pre-call with him about a couple of weeks ago, but technology failed us. But a chap called Harry Turner, also known as the nocturnal therapist, and is one of the most interesting 15-minute calls of my life. He was just absolutely fascinating and it made me really excited for today's episode. He's a licensed clinical social worker and coach with certifications as a spiritual life coach and clinical trauma professional, and he's got a school called the School of Outliers, dedicated to helping individuals live their truth and transform pain into personal growth. And yeah, I just found him. He's such a holistic, wise guy. He was quoting from all over the place, so I suspect we'll get even more of that today, which is great. How do you know him?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so he contacted me to be on his podcast. He has a podcast called the School of Outliers and, yeah, we had a good rapport. I think we had a lot of similar interests. Today we talk about polyvagal theory and trauma and all these types of things. So we had quite a good back and forth and a bit of challenging as well.
Speaker 1:In today's episode he had some opinions that I disagreed with and I gave it back to him and then he gave it back to me and, yeah, I think the listener is going to enjoy his perspective because he's from a different background to most of our guests. He's from the South of America. He's got a beautiful accent Louisiana yes, certainly very different accents to ours. So, yeah, I think listeners are going to get a lot from that. He also has a bit of a spiritual or religious background. I think his father was a priest in a Southern Baptist church, so he's got that background. That lens to come through as well. He says he's not a religious person, but obviously he's been raised in that tradition. So hearing from those perspectives I think are really useful. And what else do we talk about, Andy?
Speaker 2:Well, we talk about one thing I really love, which is he thinks well and, I'm sure, rightfully thinks he's got an ability to sit with someone when they're at their lowest, which I think is something that Natalie Himmelrich touched on in the episode with her, which is the art of presence, and I found when he talked about being able to sit with someone in the middle of the wood, as he described it, I found that really powerful and I think it's the similar sort of gift as natalie clearly has of actually being able to be present with someone when they are suffering so much.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I love that part of the conversation yeah, and I get a lot of comments from friends who go into therapy like, oh, I tried therapy when it wasn't really for me. They just sat there and listened and just asked me about things, and they'll say like I wanted much more from them. I wanted them to tell me how to think, I wanted them to tell me what to do, and I feel like harry might be one of those types of therapists, a modern therapist who's getting more involved in in describing things or for their clients, a bit like stuts. Did you ever see that program stuck with jonah hill and his therapy?
Speaker 1:is much more like this is what some people need. Some people don't just need to be coddled and told you're a victim. Some people need other things and they feel like harry may but not be the therapist you want, but he's the therapist you need. You need for sure.
Speaker 2:Well, it sounds like it's not for the faint of heart. He was saying there's like a reasonable dropout rate when people start working with him, because he does demand a lot of people and he knows that gets the best results. So yeah, it certainly sounds like a fairly far removed from your standard cbt. But yeah, we'll see absolutely yeah.
Speaker 1:So, listener, tune in and, while you're listening, if you like it, why don't you tell a friend about the podcast or share it on social media? That really helps us, doesn't it? Andy?
Speaker 2:Yeah, very much so. Yeah, or ping it around WhatsApp or whatever you use to connect with people. Every listen is much appreciated.
Speaker 1:Absolutely All right. Well, enjoy this listener, and we will catch up with you at the end of the episode. Bye.
Speaker 3:Harry, you emphasise the importance of living one's truth. What does this mean to you, okay? Okay, I'm glad you're warming me up with that question. But for me, living in truth is. I like to adopt a beginner's mind when I look at any concept, no matter how many times I looked at it. So, looking at the definition, oftentimes I'll repeat definitions. So the definition when I looked up truth essentially came down to. It was a long. It was a good explanation because it's not that simple as it is. But essentially, truth is the accurate expression of a thing's essence. The accurate expression of essence. So, to put it, go deeper with it and try to keep it simple.
Speaker 3:Oftentimes we live in non-truth. We live not being authentic to who we truly are. We're not living in truth. We're living based off of programs and conditioning. We're not living in truth. We're living based off of programs and conditioning, which is the mind's natural adaptation to the environment. But, as George Bernard Shaw said, the reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man seeks to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress is dependent on the unreasonable man. At some point, when you realize that you're living someone else's life or the life that other people wanted for you, at some point you realize that you got through. As Lao Tzu said, it's only when I let go of who I am that I become who I might be. And so you have to let go of that old conditioning and begin to move authentically, as you move in alignment and you follow that. Who am, I question? You are living in truth, because now you're being authentic, which is the accurate expression of what you are, which is pure essence.
Speaker 1:Beautiful Deep, a deep start, amazing start. I'm assuming that by extension.
Speaker 2:There's no half measures with this. You wouldn't prescribe to anyone going in half-assed with this. You need to be fully authentic all the time.
Speaker 3:If you can, yes, and there's default programs, survival programs. That's what the ego is for. We spend a lot of time talking about the ego and the perils of the ego, the ego mind or the analytical mind, the ego, the ego mind or the analytical mind, but the ego is, was created for a reason it's for survival. It's our adaptation too. Like, it's amazing, the prefrontal cortex, like the way the brain, the mind works in coordination and dancing with the brain, and we don't even know that a mind exists. But we know that a mind exists, even though we can't like empirically prove that a mind exists. But we know the brain exists. So we study the brain. So it's like knowing that we are so much more complex than what we can even have the capabilities of knowing. That is how. What is the percentage of the brain that we actually use? I forget, I know it's a low percentage.
Speaker 1:I know Hollywood says it's 10%.
Speaker 2:I heard 10%.
Speaker 1:I think that is a Hollywood thing, but I think, yeah, what you're speaking to is we have a lot more potential. And there's this financial song it's called the Psychology of the Rich that I listen to a lot and it's quite inspiring. It's a bit cheesy, but there's one financial song it's called the psychology of the rich that I listen to a lot and it's quite inspiring. It's a bit cheesy, but there's one line on there and they say it really strikes me. It's like you can have more than you've got because you can be more than you are, and that, I think, is something that I often forget. I think, oh well, you know, I can't be more successful than this. I can't be what I want to be because I am what I am right now and at this level, that's all I can get. But I can grow, I can back to myself. I do have potential that can be fulfilled, and everyone does. And, yeah, I think that's something that I like to remind myself with. I love that.
Speaker 1:You said, harry, about truth and how. I think it was Lackey. I can't remember who said this, but you're amazing at remembering, quoting people and attributing those quotes correctly. I'm not, but the someone said this is a society obsessed with partial truths, and so, with your idea of like living one's truth, how do you see people out there in the world, in wider society, or even clients yourself, who are not living that truth? What are the sort of the symptoms of people who are not living according to one's truth?
Speaker 3:So in the book the Neuroscience of Psychotherapy, in one portion they talk about the concept of three births. The first birth is the physical birth. The second birth is the birth of the cultural consciousness. I am black, whatever that is, I am male, whatever that is, I live here, so on and so forth. I speak this language, these are my favorite colors, really the birth of the ego, consciousness, which really we begin to see take form when we turn two, which is why it's accompanied by the terrible twos this, me, my, mine. It's us really embodying the ego. But the third birth that's available to us is self-actualization. But that birth is optional.
Speaker 3:So most of us live and will die in the cultural consciousness which Bonnie Ware, an Austrian hospice nurse. She recorded the regrets before dying of her patients because they kept saying the same thing. She recorded the top 10 regrets, but she usually lists the top five and it's the same thing. We are the same as humans. So I wish I'd allowed myself to be more happier. Well, what keeps us from being happy?
Speaker 3:Okay, adopting a beginner's mind again, happiness is not a destination to be reached, but the way that we travel. So happiness is to do that which produces the experience of happiness. Why are we practicing? Because everything that we do as a practice and whatever we practice becomes a program if it isn't one already. Why are we practicing being unhappy? Why would we do that? How do we get to that point? But all of us practice it. Because we practice doing what we believe to be right, based off of what we've been conditioned to believe is right, as opposed to doing what is true and aligned for us. And as Carl Jung says, the pendulum of the mind oscillates not between right and wrong, but sense and nonsense. We do what makes sense to us, based on our level of awareness and based off of that level of awareness that's in proportion to the level of authenticity we can embody in any single moment, in any single moment.
Speaker 3:So what I see in my clients is being trapped in the second mind, but seeking, yearning, feeling that calling to go beyond that, to be transformed by detaching essentially from the life story, is not who we are. That doesn't represent who we are All of us need. It's just a part of the human experience that we all have a story, which is why, even in religion, it's all told through stories, because we embody reality through these stories that the mind farms based off of this illusion of who we think we are. So, as we shed and give space to the old story, we realize that we can let go of the beliefs that reinforce the old story and then we begin to realize that, oh. And then we begin to realize that, oh, like, just like I can think that I am ugly and unworthy, I can think that I am beautiful and worthy and when I truly embody that, I am this, like there's no other magic pill that I need. I am that the moment I say I am that and believe it in thought, word, and indeed I am that, no delay. So just the ability to be flexible enough to know that, depending on whatever the context is, no matter what it is, just because you see a ditch and I see a rose bed doesn't mean that we're not standing in the same yard. So to be able to be flexible.
Speaker 3:So in mental health, mental rigidity is what's called a transdiagnostic factor. Remember, the mind is like a parachute it only works when it's open. So the more rigid a person is, the more symptomatic, or the more that represents the manifestation of a mental illness, or the more that represents the manifestation of a mental illness the mind was not meant to be rigid and calcified Again. We were made to adapt and Darwinism says survival of the fittest was based off of the species that could adapt. So my belief is that the physical is a representation of spiritual truths and I believe that narrative of Darwinism. It only exists to reveal to us a higher truth which before, when we briefly spoke, I was talking about spirituality being para-rational and not sub-rational.
Speaker 3:If you sit underneath the rational, then you are merely superstitious, which many in the religious communities they identify as religious, but really they're superstitious, and I can say that because I belong to that community. So I'm not going to speak on communities I don't belong to. Usually Politics is a different. There's a whole different beast. But from speaking as a member of that community, a lot of them remain suffering because they sit beneath the rational. Ignorance and freedom can coexist. So one of the things that I also do with my clients is educate them. You're way more powerful than what you think you are.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you about the abilities of the mind. Let me tell you about the ability of belief and how emotions anchored in emotions, like when we experience trauma, trauma anchors in an emotion. That emotion then gives birth to certain beliefs and thoughts. Just like thoughts then reinforce certain emotions, when it comes down specifically to trauma, it anchors in certain emotions. That then gives birth to programs based in beliefs and thoughts, based off of that anchoring emotion. So then the mind looks for anything that will confirm confirmation bias, anything that will confirm the program or the narrative that's associated with that anchored in emotion. So if I see myself as less than, then I ignore all of the evidence to the contrary and I look for all the evidence that I can assimilate into that narrative of me being less than so. It's a lot of reprogramming that I do with the mind. The brain is the hardware, the mind is the software. Just like our phones need updates, the mind needs constant updates the mind needs constant updates.
Speaker 2:Can you give us a bit of an insight into what that looks like, Harry, in terms of what you can practically do to keep those updates going?
Speaker 1:Read.
Speaker 2:What should we read?
Speaker 3:I don't want to keep you guys doing this, but again, the mind is like a parachute, it only works when it's open. And so reading like I read specifically nonfiction I read a lot of self-help books. I don't know what the genre is, but self-help, self-growth, psychology, those types of books like the Body, keeps the Score. I also read deeply spiritual books, back to the four agreements, after several decades of not reading. Yeah. So I combine those types of books because it begins to open up my mind, because you can see one of my gifts I believe it's a gift because I don't really see it, everybody doing it but one of my gifts is the ability to see patterns, and so I can see a pattern when I look at different ways of seeing life through the books. So that's how I know.
Speaker 3:Again, in Christianity there's a scripture that oftentimes is used erroneously, so it evokes a negative feeling. But there's a scripture that you reap what you sow. The ego is going to see that one way. The spirit, mind, the heart, it's going to see that a different way. But the way it's been used is to evoke this negative connotation. But essentially it's talking about cause and effect. So you reap what you sow. That's a scripture.
Speaker 3:In Buddhism they say karma, which represents different levels of understanding what karma and the karmic effects are. In science, sir Isaac Newton's third law of thermodynamics states for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction. Remove the judgment that may come along from the exposure, early exposure. Adopt a beginner's mind when you look at these concepts. Remove any conditioning, any preconceived thoughts, and you begin to see that there is a narrative here, that everyone is saying the same thing, even though they're coming from completely different planes. When I see that I'm identifying universal laws, those are the truths that I operate on, because in my faith it says and I understand, based off conditioning. But in my faith it says there's a way that's seemingly right to a man and the end result is death. And it also says trust in God with all thy heart and lean not to thine own understanding. So there's a lot of emphasis in human understanding and how erroneous it is.
Speaker 3:Socrates says that man always, or humans always, seek to do the highest good. The issue is that humans don't know what the highest good is, which then goes back to Carl Jung. The pendulum of the mind oscillates not between right and wrong, but sense and nonsense. So when you begin to look at it like that programs, then you can look at how a Gandhi can come along, martin Luther King, look at how a Gandhi can come along, martin Luther King can come along, hitler can come along, and all of these different people believe that they are right.
Speaker 3:But we see the impact based off of people remaining in the second conditioning. Hitler remained in the second birth, he did not evolve beyond that and so it was all ego rooted, which is fear rooted. So what I see across the board with my clients is healthy doses of fear. Fear is false evidence appearing real, and so I begin to lean into the narrative like what is causing fear with the mind? If a bear is chasing you, yeah, it's good to fear. You need fear because it's going to turn you into a superhuman. You run fast or whatever, like I don't jog, but you put an angry dog behind me and I'm telling you I can run fast enough to run on top of water, but that's because I'm afraid and that's what the fear does to the body. So fear is not a bad thing from a survival perspective, but from an authenticity perspective. These fears is just made up, it's mental flagellants, it's a part of the life story and the false narrative we told ourselves and who we are based off of this connection to this said life story. Based off of this connection to this said life story. So I address the fear because, like any mirage, when you lean into it it dissipates. And I digress.
Speaker 3:Going back to what you said earlier, I assign a lot of reading for my clients. So clients have had multiple therapists. When they get to me, I tell them in the beginning because, informed consent, you got to sign that paperwork. I let them know I am not what you're used to, I am not the TV therapist, a pill that you take, and then all of a sudden you good, no, it is a lifestyle, this is a dojo and you will be tested every single time you step in this dojo sounds intense, yeah which is why I get a predictable percentage of dropouts early on right, yeah, fair enough.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just want to go back to what you were talking about there sort of pain and misery, you know, light topics. But England and the UK, one of the big differences between the US, one of the things I find, is people in the US are a lot more positive. They're a lot more upbeat, even when things are, you know, upbeat even when things are aren't. You know, obviously difficult in the us at the moment. Yeah, things are difficult here.
Speaker 1:Yeah, scary, yeah it's different to other parts of america, but still there's a lot of positivity. In california, in the uk, there's a lot of pessimism and I think the pessimism is a defense. It's a defense against pain. People have been downtrodden, people have lost battles, and I like the idea that you know, depression usually comes after someone loses something you know they've been. They lost a fight to save their marriage, they lost a fight against a bully, those types of things. But further to that, I have just been.
Speaker 1:I've just finished Will Storr's book on status, which I found really fascinating, and he talks a lot about humiliation and you mentioned Hitler there, and Will Storr also talks about Hitler and his humiliation and Germany's humiliation and the Treaty of Versailles. They were humiliated after World War I and what happened was they went and did some of the worst atrocities in history because of this humiliation. Same with the Unabomber he was humiliated multiple times by his mother and it seems like the man who attempted to assassinate Donald Trump was bullied, humiliated again there. So I'm wondering you talk about metabolizing pain. Humiliation is obviously a type of pain. Yeah, can you tell us more about? Yeah, metabolizing pain to propel people forward mutation of pain.
Speaker 3:So I quote often my favorite author, khalil deran. He says pain is the breaking of the shell that is enclosed, that encloses your understanding. It's the bitter potion by which the doctor within heals the sick self. For me, pain is only necessary. Well, pain in and of itself is a part of life, like the human experience is sweet and sweet without the bitter, the suffering, though, that comes from remembering, responding and the continual reaction to said pain. That part is meant to teach us a lesson, because the past is for reference, not residence. Another quote that I say is the past is history, the future mystery, and today is a gift, which is why it's called the present. You can't enjoy your gift while you're walking backwards.
Speaker 3:So what keeps us staring at the crime scene? Fear, thinking that if we staring at it, then essentially I'm pouring energy into it. And since the fear is an illusion in of itself, because that moment is dead, it's gone, it no longer exists, since fear is an illusion in of itself, I keep the fear alive because I pour energy into it by staring at it, which is why there's another universal law that says, or law of belief that says whatever you fear, you attract. Only reason why that law even is a law is it stands on the law that wherever attention goes, energy flows, and it's an ego program to stare If a growling dog is in front of me. I'm not looking around, I'm looking right at that growling dog. That's just a survival instinctual reaction, which is why there's certain times, especially with mental health, I teach to go against the instinctual reactions of survival, because there is a difference between merely existing and living. You can be as miserable as you want and continue to exist, but your unhappiness and pain reflects the fact that you desire to live. A need is being unmet, just like babies, adults only cry when needs go unmet period. And so the ego will try to solve the solution from the external, because that's all that's real to the evil mind. That's why we only focus in science on empirical research.
Speaker 3:But if you defeat the enemy within, the enemy without can do you no harm. That's what spirituality comes in. Carl Jung even said that if you look from without, you're still asleep. He that looks within awakens. So you got to deal with that in a world and realize that as you heal, your level of awareness expands. More options become available to you, more access to who you essentially are your actual self, more of it and you can operate more in your authentic self, which is empowering. And then you realize what accompanies that is more moments of happiness. But above that, and sweeter than that for me, is this sense of peace. At the lower levels you have no peace and that's hell to me, that's torture to me to not have peace. But when you realize that, no matter what the situation is, peace stays with you, happiness is transient.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, when you're doing, when you're moving in purpose, it doesn't feel good. So even when moving in purpose, it can be a challenge, and it oftentimes is. But because you're moving in purpose, that pain has a purpose and so you lean into it instead of run away from it. So it's different, it feels different, just like going to the gym. That pain, when you open the mind and understand why you are suffering, you can face it, you can lean into it, you can really embody it and then through doing that, you transmute pain so oftentimes, which in society is a projection of pain, because that's what the ego does. It projects so, like you mentioned earlier the attempted assassination of Donald me that I can get some happiness by dealing with all those that bullied me and he is the embodiment of all those that ever bullied me. I get rid of that. I get rid of my pain.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think the idea that we should just avoid pain at all costs holds a lot of people back. I think people don't realize how, as you said, like pain can be such fuel for good things. Obviously it can be fuel for horrific things, like within the Nazi party and things like that. But so many things in my life that I've done well and people have sort of congratulated me for have come from pain. They have come from embarrassment or failure and that's one of my biggest motivators is, yeah, is is proving people wrong and sort of shoving it in people's face and yeah, that may they may sound petty and things like that, but it still gets things done. That I, you know, I I think are good in some regards, you know, but I, I think people also need to trust themselves to tolerate pain.
Speaker 1:You know what? I think one of the greatest lessons I've learned is like, whatever happens, like doing this podcast, when I first started doing it I was like, oh, I can't do this. You know what if I put myself out there, I fail, I say something stupid, I get humiliated. I just kept on having to say to myself you can handle humiliation, you can handle criticism, you, you may not think you can, but you'll go through it and you will do you will. You'll get something from it, and I just wish people would would trust themselves to tolerate their own discomfort a little bit more. And you want to say something?
Speaker 2:yeah, I was just gonna. It's along similar lines. But what? Why is it? Do you think that people find it so difficult? I remember when I've described to family and friends some of the retreats I've done and they're like I can't think of anything worse than opening that box and I can't think of anything I'd less like to do than face that inner fear. But even by saying that they obviously know it's in there, but it's just taking that next level to confront it head on. Why is that so difficult for so many? Because shame.
Speaker 3:It is the most challenging experience that a human can experience. It relates to a primordial fear of being exiled and since we are not adapted, our minds are not adapted to the way that we live right now still very much in the hunting and gathering stage. Exiled meant death, so then shame feels like death, because who's going to fight a saber tooth, tiger or whatever existed during that time? Who's going to fight that by themselves? I don't care how much you work out, I don't care who you are. You're not fighting these beasts that are skilled killers. We literally still have dinosaurs around us being alligators. I ain't never seen anybody try to truly take on an alligator in its habitat. There's shows and stuff like that, but no, there's nobody swimming with an alligator and trying to fist fight an alligator. It's just not happening. So that primordial fear of exiled, death, and also unbelief that we are unworthy, and then shame. It is the false evidence appearing real that we are unworthy. So it's really an instinctual thing, our response to it, and also the mind codes things with the emotion of shame if it believes that we can't handle it, that it's too unbearable and that to look at this thing would cause you to the mind to collapse, and so it'll put up these doorways with protectors and guards by it and they'll coat it with shame. Don't ever look at this and that's a lot of the work that I do too, because my focus is trauma. So these anchoring in emotions.
Speaker 3:And Carl Jung says until the unconscious becomes conscious, it will direct your life. You will call it fate. So why is it that you continue to go into the reenactments of doing the same thing, meeting the same people? Because you could switch out faces. But it's energy that we're dealing with. So until you resolve that, that energy will pop up again and again, regardless of the face. And so then people begin to believe that they're fated to meet certain types of people and to a certain extent that's a half truth and that life conspires in our favor. And so oftentimes our freedom exists right there where we've left those most painful moments, right there where that emotion of shame is. That's where our liberation is as well. And so life constantly gives us the opportunity to be liberated from the false evidence appearing real, and that comes through patience, which is the capacity again had adopted in a beginner's mind.
Speaker 3:Patience is the capacity to hold pain or discomfort for an extended period of time without becoming discouraged or dismayed. So when we talk about patience, we're not talking about waiting. That is the colloquial understanding of it. That is not patience, and a lot of. That's another reason why it's good to always have online dictionary or physical dictionary around you, because the words are fluid, they're symbols, and so, since these words that we use have evolved from their original meaning so much over time and the way that it's been manipulated, especially in politics, the way that we take on advertising and media and stuff like that, all of these false ego images, getting to the original meaning, oftentimes, that will help to unlock certain things for you. So patience is not waiting. It's really talking about resilience and hope. So, in my faith, it says the race is not given to the swift, but to those that endure it.
Speaker 3:And psychotherapy. New research studies show that the primary factor determining whether a client heals or not is their ability to be resilient. Now, that's new research. But again, when you begin to see, when you walk in different spaces, you begin to see that everybody's saying the same thing. Whether it's new or whether it's old, it's still the same truth. That's being discovered time and time again. So planes fly against the wind, not with it. You lean into your discomfort. That's one of the main phrases that I say to my clients lean into that discomfort. We don't run from it. You've been running from it up until this point. If you want the exact same thing that you've been having, then keep on doing what you've been doing, but based off the ego programming. The ego becomes self-sabotaging when it comes down to solving an internal problem by looking at the external.
Speaker 1:It doesn't realize that it's the question in the answer yeah, I also like that, saying you can't be chased by something you turn around and face, which I think is similar to leaning into that discomfort. But yeah, you mentioned trauma there and you mentioned earlier, the body keeps the score and I think trauma has become like it's become overdone in so many words. You know trauma is anything these days trauma is hearing an opinion you don't like, or trauma is doing having too much homework in university or things like that. And you know there is.
Speaker 1:There is a research study that they looked at sort of three different groups who had to experience like very traumatic events in their their childhood and they they followed up with them for the rest of their life. And the people who did worse were the people who identified with their trauma. Trauma became who they were. It was, you know they had it in their Instagram bio, you know PTSD sufferer. And the people who were most successful in you know whether it's business, family life. They were people who didn't make trauma a part of their identity. And I did just read an article, an interview with Bessel van der Kolk in the Financial Times and he said exactly that he's like if you make trauma part of your identity, that is very, very dangerous for you and your ability to thrive. So what do you think people are getting wrong about trauma? Just that.
Speaker 3:The traumatic part is the fact that we remember, that's it, and we remember. And again we have attention, goals, energy flows, whatever we fear, we attract. And so, because it was so painful, the mind wants to make sure that it never happens again. It wants to solve it, but it can't solve something that's in the past, and so it continues to stare at it, thinking that eventually the solution will magically come. Out of thin air goes energy flows. We continue to stare at that reality and if I'm staring at a horror show over and over again, I'm conditioning my mind to that horror show. I don't need to exist in that moment for me to experience that moment, as if I exist in that moment, and that's the thing about trauma. So, like I said earlier on, the attachment to healing becomes, I see, a proportion in proportion to the attachment to the life story. This is not who you are. You just had to manifest in physical If we want to play with quantum mechanics for a little bit the particles existing in multiple spaces until the scientist tries to observe it, and then it collapses into one space as if it has a consciousness, which it does.
Speaker 3:So these particles collapse into one space in order to be observed. We collapsed. If we are in this amount of particles, that's what we are. We collapsed into one space in order to be observed. With that collapse came a life story. It was just. It's a life story. What determines a life story?
Speaker 3:I don't know. I can't recall. There's a lot of people that say we had a part in that and whatnot. I can't recall that conversation. I don't remember that roundtable meeting. I don't remember the Zoom meeting where we discussed okay, you send me down to this family and let me experience this and this, but there's a lot of theories out there. But nevertheless, I know that we all have a story. It's a part of being a human. But we're not that story. We just needed a story so that we can be liberated ultimately from the story.
Speaker 3:So, with trauma, it is very much that to have people that are models in front of me but because of the impact and remembering of certain shameful events being embarrassed at holidays based off the way that they look by family members believing and operating and defending this belief that they are ugly Like that is an attachment to this specific moment that caused a considerable amount of pain because as children, we're in the most hypnotic state. We're just us. We're thinking that the world is all about love and butterflies and roses and stuff like that. So to have these adults, especially adults that we love, when they love us, to come in and be the source of pain, it goes against the programming of love. And so we're trying to make sense of this Like why am I being punished for being me? Well, maybe it's not so good to be me. Well, who do I need to be? What do they say I need to be? They say I need to be this and I need to be that and I need to be this. Okay, I'll do that. Oh, they get happy with me when I be what they say I need to be. And then we just continue to do that. And again it happens on all levels. Because the mind is an adaptation tool. We're continually being conditioned. Every commercial, every single advertisement, we're being conditioned to some extent.
Speaker 3:So we have formal education over here in the States and I say we go through. We begin with kindergarten and then first grade, second grade and it goes all the way to 12th grade, and then we have a graduation ceremonial event. The very word graduation can be seen as a combination of the words, gradual and indoctrinated successfully into this system of thinking. What is that? System? Based off of the industrial age to create factory workers, people that would obey authority, which is why you have a teacher and you have to be graded and you have to study and you have to prove your worthiness in order to successfully graduate. It does have a functional purpose. That's healthy.
Speaker 3:We do need knowledge, like that's important, and we need motivation. It's important to have motivation to get knowledge. Ignorance and freedom can't coexist. But to identify with failing out of high school when I know that there are geniuses who didn't make it past third grade, to identify with that becomes the limiting belief that then guides the person's action. And so if society says I'm a flunky and I'm a nobody, then what is out there for nobodies and funkies, I'll go do that. I'll go be that. If society says I'm an animal, I'll be that. It's what do you say I am? As Eminem said in his song, I am. Whatever you say I am.
Speaker 2:And so you hinted a bit about. It's pretty tough working with you, but how do you assist clients in what must be, for many people, such a transformational, life-changing journey? How do you guide them through that?
Speaker 3:One by one we deal with the limiting beliefs. So my own program I've transitioned away from psychotherapy and the reason why is because it's limiting. For me, psychotherapy is limiting. I have to bring in some other components which are deeply spiritual. So acceptance, I call acceptance. I created something called the lit effect, but acceptance is essential. So even in my therapy practice I will begin with books that teach radical acceptance, which then teaches a person to not be judgmental, which then softens up that doorway that's coated with shame, because with shame also comes intense judgment. So acceptance then resolves that To be non-judgmental, radical acceptance is to be present with this moment and be non-judgmental. So just to suspend that judgment is transformational. But when you accept, then you get clarity Because you're allowing yourself to see not just what you want to see, but everything you need to see as well, and you can do it. You can do it because you're not judging it anymore. You realize how self-critical you are and how judgmental you are, how self-judgmental you are, and you abandon that. How do you abandon it? With self-compassion, radical acceptance and then with that clarity. Once that clarity hit, whatever it looks like.
Speaker 3:So if I'm chronically depressed and then my body's putting me in deep rest mode. So then I'm coded to stay away from people and as soon as I get the opportunity, run to the bedroom and sleep. That's it. I'm too fatigued. You can't tell me to do anything else besides sleep, because I'm fatigued. You can't tell me how tired I am. You can tell me to get up and go jog and this and that, but I am. You don't know my body. I am fatigued.
Speaker 3:Polyvagal theory and the autonomic nervous system and the story of connection, which represents ventral vagal regulation, the story of protection, which represents the sympathetic mobilization, fight or flight, and the dorsal vagal collapse which represents freeze. And I explain how state dictates story. It's not the story that's influencing your state, it's the state that you're in that's telling you a story and influencing the way that you're interpreting. And that is self-sabotaging, which is why, again, carl Jung says until the unconscious becomes conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate. It is time to go against the program, even if you don't feel like it. It's time to go against the program. Even if you don't feel like it, it's time to go against the program.
Speaker 3:And then, so then we begin to, I begin to like structure. That's why it's difficult to just say it like, take the step, because it has to be placed in context to the person, the who I am, that they've identified with the life, life story, and then begin to like tailor that with the actions that we need to take based off of that narrative and the way that they live. You got all of the positionalities that we identify with to deal with. So you got, of course, class, race, sex, like you have all these things that some of them are no issue at all but in others an identification with it causes severe issues, and so I've got to identify that, help them identify that and help them to detach from that, because it's false evidence appearing real. Does that make sense? I know I talk, yeah no, I yeah.
Speaker 1:I like how you brought in the polyvagal theory to explain like, yeah, you know, you, your state may influence the story and people's internal state, whether it's their nervous system, whether it's their methylation, whether it's their environment. They're trying to find external proof that they should feel like they do. And I think a problem I find with therapy is that you are putting people almost immediately into that victim position. You are oppressed by a family member, a husband, a class, and I don't think that helps people in the long term. Maybe it does for a short amount of time to be like, oh yeah, bad things did happen to me and I need to reckon with those things. But I think it becomes really problematic when, as you say, you identify as a victim of oppression, whether it's race, class, bullying, bad parenting, whatever. So how do you navigate that? Bad parenting, whatever. So how do you navigate that? How do you balance allowing people to heal and reckon with their oppression and not get stuck there?
Speaker 3:So, again, fear is false evidence appearing real. It's real for us. We wouldn't be afraid if it wasn't real for us. So it's real for us. So I also teach about. They stay with me long enough. Again, it's a process and you've got to be in it for the long haul. So at some point in that process I typically go over the rescuer-victim-persecutor triangle, because those are shadows, a triangle because those are shadows. So I begin to educate on the victim shadow and why we identify with that and how. That's very much according to. So I've looked at different styles and then integrated it into a very eclectic style that flows.
Speaker 3:So internal family systems. If you're familiar with it, it talks about parts and part work. So then I talk about how that part that usually is stuck in that earlier experience is a young part, exile part. So I help them to explain that, based off of these parts, there is the conscious adult parts, there is the conscious adult and then there is the inner child. That then influences the conscious adult. Either it's integrated and influences the conscious awareness of the adult or it is a shadow which then influences through self-sabotaging behaviors. Again, until the unconscious becomes conscious, it will direct your life. You'll call it fate. It is very much about, early on, what happened to me, because something had to knock me out of being calibrated to my most authentic self. So we look at what happened, but you're not the life story. That's the key.
Speaker 3:Victimhood I am currently writing a book called and leaving the victim's hood of victimhood. Victimhood I am currently writing a book called and leaving the victim's hood of victimhood. Like and I am a again, I am a trauma. I've been a trauma specialist. So I most certainly deal with the narrative and we most certainly when talking about, like family members, for example, because whenever we're cut we'll be all over those closest to us. That's just what it is.
Speaker 3:So I explain certain philosophies like that and then I explain how it's about programming. So it's not about, again, carl Jung, the pendulum of the mind oscillates Now between right and wrong, sense and nonsense. It's not about they are bad people, it's that they are programmed. And, honestly, if you look at anybody who's really caused deep harm to anybody else, look at anybody who's really caused deep harm to anybody else, they've also been on the receiving end of harm, of said harm to some extent. So there's programs that are in place. So when we remove judgment. We can understand that this person that was involved in these things were programmed to the calibration of fear and pain and shame and that was projected on you in some form or fashion. And when you look at your life up until this point usually at a point because I see adults in therapy when you look at your life, I'm pretty sure you can tell me that you've projected your pain onto other people as well.
Speaker 3:So it's not about identifying who are the bad people or not. It's about understanding that we are programmed and based off of these programs that all of us operate in to some extent. If we have not self-actualized, then we're being calibrated by fear and not love and fear. When we operate in that space, that super energizes the ego. That's when we fall into a lot of these self-sabotaging behaviors projection, so on and so forth. But that's when I bring in a spiritual component also and say that but if you defeat the enemy within, the enemy without can do you no harm.
Speaker 3:So there are some people my clients that don't heal, or the clients which are or struggle to progress. Let me say that struggle to progress, which are few, very few, but they are the ones who will not let go of the life story and I spent a great deal of time while hearing, because the persons, they need to be validated. We don't want to like. It's important to validate, be it illusion or not. It's important to validate the illusion because it's real for the person, for all of us. So if I come to you in pain, please validate my illusion Like I'm not even hearing you until you valid, like you're saying that I'm bullshit and need to get over it. Ok, bye, I'm on to the next person. So please validate my experience and what I've gone through and then help me see through it. And then help me see through it.
Speaker 3:I tell my clients if there's a difference that I see is that oftentimes, being a therapist or life coach, they depict and see themselves standing outside of the forest that you're in and they'll go follow my voice standing outside of the forest With trauma. I say I'm going to be in the forest with you and if you're not ready to leave that place, then I'm going to sit down and light a campfire because it don't scare me. It's not scary here for me, I'm quite comfortable, no matter what position I'm in. So then, having also the guide or helper to look at these things that's been coded with shame is extremely liberating because I'm bringing a different perspective, like what you thought you were, what Come on, but I'm not even. I can't even be that.
Speaker 3:If you don't, if you don't trust me, if you don't think that I have your best interest in mind, why would you even hear that or entertain that? To entertain it's a really a radical. It's a radical. It's a. It's a step in. It takes a lot of courage and it really is a radical choice. To trust anyone enough to lay your truth out there, whatever you think it is. To lay your truth out there, even the yucky parts, and then hope that they don't judge you as much as you judge yourself, that is courageous, which is why people tend to rely on therapists, because they can sue my ass if I tell any story to anybody. You know what I'm saying. A little added layer of protection there. You know what I'm saying. I thought that I would get a lot of people that honestly look like me, but a lot of my clients are like middle-class to affluent white women and I thought about it after a while years and I was like you know what that's?
Speaker 3:because I will never be in any of their circles there's no bumping into them accidentally, like you're completely segregated lives, so there's also that added layer of protection as well and you're probably quite a good therapist as well.
Speaker 1:Yes, so zooming out a little bit, why do you think mental health is so bad in the us and it's very bad in the uk, but you know us has to be number one and it's number one in mental health problems as well. So what do you think's going on?
Speaker 3:Ignorance. Ignorance and I mean that in a neutral sense that we don't know. I tell my clients oftentimes that when, just like every generation, we look back 100 years and we say that they us barbarians, barbarity will be the lack of understanding. The mind and mental health because we're brutal towards each other Like this is keeping us from evolving the collective consciousness. That's the whole reason why mental health came along when it did to begin with, because it's time to move from the physical up to the mental and understand reality, how it's created and whatnot, and then transcend that, realizing that it's really a big old canvas.
Speaker 3:These things do not have to be. We don't have to deal with childhood hunger. We don't have to deal with the suicide rates. We don't have to deal with mass incarceration. We don't have to deal with people feeling the only way they can resolve their pain is if they assassinate somebody who's running for president, like that doesn't have to be. So at some point we have to stop going. Oh, they are animal and they're an exception to the human rule. So we cast them away as animals and that's it. They will look at that choice and say that we were barbarians because clearly this was a mental health issue. Ignorance and freedom can coexist, so, and I want to make sure I answer your question, though, but give me the question again why is mental health getting worse and why is it so?
Speaker 3:bad. Oh, politicians, money, the love of money, is the root of all evil. So the more educated a population is, the less you can control the population. Hitler, if not encouraging anybody to read Mein Kampf or anything like that. It's definitely not a Kanye West moment, but he said that it gives us a special delight to see how unaware the people are, the governments that govern them. He also said tell the lie, make the lie big, keep saying it. Eventually people will believe it. So when you talk about the way that money influences politics, that politicians are literally being purchased and have been being purchased for some time now, and then they just project out whatever message. The plutocrat or the wealthy that's hiding behind a scene that we never see, the wealthy billionaire or multimillionaire they're just projecting their interests out. Well, there's certain ignorance again allows us to control the population. So if I don't want to deal with global warming because it's going to impact my bottom line, then I'm going to put a bunch of angry people out there who talk about it being a hoax and it's nonsense and how some liberal made up whatever the other is. That I can't stand. I'll add that into my explanation as to why you should ignore this truth and because we are ignorant a lot of us are ignorant we go with the basic instinct, which is that projection of fear. That's why the news use red colors. Red influences us. There's a reason why they don't have red jail cells or prison cells because it's going to be a massacre. We are exceptionally sensitive to the environment, so they use all of this psychology that we don't know about. They use all of this psychology to control, based off of us not knowing. So what's blocking the mental health revolution?
Speaker 3:I believe are people who have special interests in making sure that the population remains ignorant, so that bottom line keeps getting bigger and bigger. But they say, absolute power corrupts absolutely. And what do men with power want? More power. That's the thing about the ego. The ego is calibrated to wanting because it's in a deficit state. It's in a scarcity mindset, hunting, gathering. We woke up, we needed to get stuff. That's another healthy function of the ego is that it needs to acquire things in order to sustain itself. Like it realizes that it motivates us. We get hungry, we go after things.
Speaker 3:The thing is when you operate from the ego, which is narcissistically energized, which then leads to probably the manifestation of narcissistic personality disorder, when you rely on the ego heavily and you have access to resources and you don't go beyond the ego, you stay in that survival mode. So the wanting never ends. No matter how much you have, you always believe that you're in a deficit and so you're always wanting more. It's never enough. So, without the transcendence component, without the transformation component, in a society that praises the wealthy, without the transformation component, in a society that praises the wealthy, in my faith, jesus spoke to a rich man and said it's easier for a camel to enter the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven. Deion Sanders said money makes you more of what you already are. So if I'm already a selfish bastard which is really not who I am, but it's really the negative is not who I am. I'm the positive, so it's I'm not being this, which represents a not self.
Speaker 3:But it's hard in a society that already doesn't understand what ego programming is. And you're born into wealth and you're praised for having things and then you're put in positions of power for being born into having things. That is a setup for a lot of corruption, and so you see that in politics and politics definitely have been dominating and controlling, because politics also influences institutional control. So why would I teach children about mental health If we had a mental health crisis? You would think that if we were in a reading crisis, we begin with the children and begin to teach children about reading, math crisis. Whatever, we begin with the children and begin to raise other generations. There's no movement whatsoever to teach children about mental health children and begin to raise other generations.
Speaker 1:There's no movement whatsoever to teach children about mental health, not even a little bit. Um, I, I I'm gonna challenge that slightly because, um, there was a study in australia. Obviously it's not not done in the us, but they did a sort of prophylactic mental health program with children so children who didn't have mental health program with children, so children who didn't have mental health issues. They measured their mental health on a variety of metrics and then they did a six-week program talking to these children about mental health and doing exercise with them, and they actually found after that six weeks that the children's mental health was worse than when they started.
Speaker 1:So I think that prophylactic therapy is not actually useful. I think it turns people into hypochondriacs and I think that is contributing to a lot of people's mental health issues. You know, they see on Instagram and TikTok, oh, you know, oh, this person's a narcissist, I'm being gaslit and it makes people think, oh gosh, you know, the world is scary and everyone's out to get me because they're all gaslighters, psychopaths, sociopaths, when actually that's not the truth, and I think that that might be contributing especially to young people's mental health issues. So I definitely think, yeah, young people especially, yeah, are suffering the most with mental health, but I think it could be because there's too much of a focus on on that and not enough focus on resilience building so I let me say this multiple truths can exist simultaneously and do exist simultaneously.
Speaker 3:So know that with science I love the fact that you're a science person know that, with science, it depends on the type of research they do, which it wasn't done in the States, but I assume that the same people did it in the States that it would come to the same conclusion. Because mental health, depending on if we're dealing with traditional mental health, then, mental health establishes a pathology.
Speaker 3:I cannot bill insurance unless I have a diagnosis which is a pathology. What attracted me to internal family systems is that it's the first treatment modality that does not pathologize clients. So mental health has to evolve beyond the pathological components of there is you are defective. It has to evolve beyond that and that is something that I tell my clients. So you give me that same study, you put me in same and that's the thing. People like me don't get those types of opportunities. We don't get put in charge of that. It's somebody that's connected, educated and connected. So you put me in charge of that same study and I do.
Speaker 3:Age appropriate explanations of how to educate children, such as a friend. I have a friend who is creating something called the MQ Quotient where a child can talk about how they're feeling internally. Just awareness, because that may be the only thing that you teach earlier on to children. The mindfulness component, because that'll solve everything else by itself and for me that is a part of mental health. So if you do nothing but begin mass programs teaching children earlier on how to be mindful, mindfully eat, mindfully wear like, how to be mindful, you can't tell me that won't improve the emotional intelligence of the population.
Speaker 3:So when we talk about these studies as well, we got to understand the motivation of these research studies and who the investigators truly are and what treatment modalities they use, Because, just like in any profession, not all people are operating from the same plane I don't operate from, I don't even really hang out with other therapists, because I don't operate like the therapist that I typically associate with, like the way that I think, the way that I move, what I teach, the things I require in therapy. It's not the typical therapist.
Speaker 2:so well, yeah, one thing I think that leads on quite nicely from that is your emphasis on let's call it spirituality or your faith. Could you talk a little bit about how that weaves into the work you do and how essential that for positive mental health outcomes?
Speaker 3:it helps with the moving removal from the life story, like the detaching from the life story, because radical acceptance is really a it's really a spiritual component and it's really a spiritual practice. Excuse me, it's really a spiritual practice and it goes against the ego programming. Judging is a process of the mind and it's thank goodness we have that so we won't go and tickle a bear after we see somebody get mauled by that said bear, like thank goodness, we can judge and perceive and stuff like that, but when it comes down to understanding the self and to be free from the self, judging is not a process that is needed, nor will it benefit. It goes against being free and being authentic and that, like Carl Jung says, condemnation does not liberate, it, only further oppresses. So a lot of my practice is removing from judgment and that requires, for me the spiritual component is love. So I teach about love and my understanding of love comes from my spiritual background. Love is patient, which did not define patience, the actual definition and not a colloquial understanding, because I also talk about things, contemporary issues like gaslighting. I talk about that and how I can't stand it.
Speaker 3:Also, I just told a client just this week that I would never send you to a book to read something titled how to be free of narcissistic abuse, because that is first off, you've already otherized somebody else in the population who suffer from narcissistic personality disorder or the least likely to ever get help. And so the fact that right now you're using that to get all of these sales, manipulating people based off of their pains I am vehemently opposed to that. So no book that demonizes the other party I will prescribe to, and I let my clients know that, even though the main therapist that you see out there that are big time in it right now, they're focusing on things like writing books, like how to heal from narcissistic abuse. Well, when you do this, you're creating more and not even understanding that the population that's attracted to that oftentimes that experience that what ends up happening is the ego adapts by going on the opposite end of that spectrum. Ego adapts by going on the opposite end of that spectrum, so it is like narcissism in reverse, but it's still the ego function. And so, for me, the mind. If we understand the mind, I want to teach about the mind. But then how do we transcend the mind? The spiritual guru Rumi. He said the ego is the veil between humans and God, like how do we transcend that? And most of my clients are either agnostic or atheist.
Speaker 3:But then, right before I transitioned, I had an influx of people who actually had a religious background, and so then that was unique in that I was able to actually speak from that place, because I don't use scriptures and stuff like that. A lot of my clients have religious trauma, so I can't like use scriptures that they would readily identify with and have a preconceived notion with, at least not until they feel safe enough with me to know that I'm not about to use this to bash you or manipulate you or control you in any way, shape or form. I'm not proselytizing to you. I'm not a preacher, nor do I aspire to be one. I just want to reveal you universal truths. So then that's why I'll mix in how I got in the habit of saying the scripture may say this, but then in Buddhism it says this, but then Sir Isaac Newton says this.
Speaker 3:Because I wanted to make it plain I'm not preaching to you here, I'm just telling you what it is. You do whatever you want to do with that. I know what I'm doing with it, but the choice is yours. You lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You give a man knowledge but you can't make him think.
Speaker 3:I'm just laying that's my job to guide you down to that attachment to the life story and this belief that, like the anchored in emotions of anger and resentment, forgiveness is a spiritual practice. So just that by itself, like why should we forgive? To understand what Buddha meant when he said to be bitter, is like holding a hot piece of coal with the intent of throwing it at somebody else. The only person that gets burned is you. That's when we begin to detach from the life story where I'm like this victimhood identification it's not I understand what happened. The life story where I'm like this victimhood identification, it's not I understand what happened to you, and I understand that, based off of my clientele, that it happened.
Speaker 3:Repeatedly Talking about some ego conditioning yeah, that's why trauma is so sticky, but regardless, that's not you, and it's time to stop responding to that, because are you there right now? No, you're talking to me right now, but yet you're feeling as if you're there right now. Why is that? Because wherever attention goes, energy flows. I still got to react to it, and so if I'm resisting something, I'm placing my attention on it. And wherever attention goes, energy flows. So we're not even resisting it, we're going to desist, which means we're going to change directions.
Speaker 3:Now, if you were to change direction, stop staring at this horror story. What would you choose to look at? Wait, I got to choose. Somebody not going to tell me what to choose. Wait, that means I got to know what I want. Ah, yes, what do you? The true you want desire, and that's connected to your values, and your values represent. It's the closest thing that represents who you are in this physical space. And, like I say, my mission is to develop the audacity to live unapologetically authentic in a life of do, which is usually ending up prioritizing everybody else's values above your own. No, now you have to prioritize your own values, which means now we're moving in alignment, now we're moving in truth. So it's that constant calibration process of removing these old, antiquated programs that don't serve us and helping a person adopt a practice around who they authentically are centered around their values beautiful.
Speaker 1:Well, I think we're coming to the end of of our interview. There's so many things I want to dive deeper into with you, harry for sure things like that we want to respect everyone's time. So, yeah, how are you are moving on to new things right in your career. Can you tell us a little bit more about what's what's next for you? I?
Speaker 3:don't really know, but I know that it's since I see over the years in my practice that we all deal with the same things. It's been confirmed again and again. I was like why I'm dealing with people one-on-one but I would speaking to that mental health deficit. I feel a calling to reveal these truths on a much larger scale so that we begin to evolve the collective consciousness. So, with that being said, I was like what can you do right now? Because, harry, you've been burned out, like you just transitioned, but you've been burned out. So what do you do right now? That adds to that and what is easy for you to do? What do you like to do? What I like to read?
Speaker 3:So August 1st is the planned launch for a book club. Basically, the group of people who love to go after self-help book after self-help book and join all of these life coaching programs and whatnot, only to come to the same place. I would like to have a book club. I'm creating a book club for those individuals who are looking to truly self-actualize, because the missing component is community. For those individuals who are looking to truly self-actualize because the missing component is community. We have to support each other in this lifestyle to break free from the narrative because we're too close to the sun. So, for those of us who live through the life story and through the victimhood, through that mentality, we're too close to the sun and we need somebody to assist us. So, not only having a book club being a part of a book club and a community only going, having a book club being a part of a book club and a community, not only would that assist and continue evolution, but also I have experience as a therapist. So now you have a therapist who are commenting on books written by other therapists and other people, and I'm telling you what I believe is based off of my truth, what I believe to be real and effective versus what is just filling pages, you know.
Speaker 3:So that's the project I have right now, and I just released my newest season of the podcast which you are on season four of. Is that so? So I have two episodes out. The third episode comes out on Thursday. So every Thursday I'll be releasing an episode. I think I have you more towards the end. So it might be a little while before I get there, because I know you're going to hit him with some haymakers. I went in with a haymaker earlier on, building it up Like it. Yeah, so, but yeah, that's pretty much so.
Speaker 3:The podcast you can check me out at becomingoutliercom. Slash links and outliers O-U-T-L-I-E-R. I don't know why. I spell it a lot, so I guess I'm just used to that word. People struggle with that word. But become an A-N, become B-E-C-O-M-E, an outliercom. Slash links with an S. Check out the podcast. And also, if you're into books and you would like to be a part of a book club, especially one that's led by the nocturnal therapist, then feel free to sign up for that as well. So and that's it. There's other stuff all going to happen, but I'm letting it just unfold as it happens.
Speaker 1:So excellent, yeah, all right. Well, thank you very much, harry yeah, thanks.
Speaker 2:So much, harry. Thank you, absolute delight. I could have listened to you for a lot longer than we've kept you, which. Thank you very much, harry.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks so much, harry, thank you all Absolute delight.
Speaker 2:I could have listened to you for a lot longer than we've kept you, which is longer than we usually keep most people. But yeah, thank you so much for giving us your time and putting so much light and wisdom out there. It's awesome, man. This has been a pleasure.
Speaker 3:I appreciate y'all Like for real. I felt real good here.
Speaker 2:This is for real, felt real good here. This is a good space, so thank y'all for the honor of being a part of this show. That really was as engaging and brilliant as I thought it was going to be. I could I genuinely meant what I said. I could listen to him for hours, the way he just pulls quotes from seemingly all over the place and, yeah, links things so nicely and it seems to just flow so well when he's talking. I feel like I could listen to a lot more of that. But, yeah, great guest. Well done rich cute.
Speaker 1:Well done, andy. Yeah, he has a very kind of lyrical tone it's very, very yeah. Poetic in the way he speaks, so I hope you enjoyed that listener. I know, andy, and I did, and yeah, andy, where do they find us?
Speaker 2:Great question Laughing Through the Pain, Navigating Wellness on all good and bad podcast hosting sites. Rich is at the Breath Geek on Instagram, I am at Andy Esam and Rich has a website called I always forget, is it? Wwwrichardlblakecom.
Speaker 1:It is. I actually have two domains. I've got the breathgeekcom as well.
Speaker 2:You kept me waiting there. Either one, I was nervous.
Speaker 1:And we're going to be starting a newsletter as well. If you want to be kept up to date with what we are up to, what the podcast is doing, sign up to my newsletter. It's going to be both Andy and I's newsletter, but you can sign up for it by going to Richard Al Blake or thebreathgeekcom and go into contact and there'll be a sign up button there. All right, well, thank you listener, thank you Andy, and thank you to our guest Harry thanks so much, harry, and thanks for listening.
Speaker 2:Everyone bye.