Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness

Gen Z's Health Revolution: Jack Espy's Buzz-Worthy Story

• Richard & Andy • Episode 34

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What if you could enjoy your favorite cocktails while making healthier choices? Meet Jack Espy, the visionary behind Spirited Hive, a canned cocktail brand that uses organic wildflower honey instead of synthetic sugars. Jack shares his journey from college graduate to successful entrepreneur, emphasizing the motivation behind offering a healthier alternative and the broader benefits of using natural ingredients. Discover how Jack balances wellness with moderate alcohol consumption and how his mindful approach resonates with Gen Z's health-conscious mindset.

Get ready for an intriguing story as Jack recounts his transformation from a quarantine hobbyist to the founder of a thriving business. Imagine starting with honey-sweetened Moscow and Mexican mules, facing initial skepticism, and ending up with a sought-after brand known for its unique flavors. Jack underscores the importance of building a community among his customers, affectionately calling it a "hive," and reflects on the amusing contrast between his path and that of his friends in real estate. This episode offers a nostalgic look at Jack's academic past and the bold moves that propelled him toward his entrepreneurial dream.

Dive into practical advice for minimizing hangovers and making healthier drinking choices. Jack discusses the rise of ready-to-drink canned cocktails and offers tips on hydration, incorporating electrolytes, and the benefits of non-alcoholic beers. He also addresses the challenges faced by Generation Z, including social media pressures and the tendency towards a victim mentality. Learn from Jack's perspective on taking the first steps towards success, emphasizing passion, perseverance, and maintaining a positive mindset. This episode is a treasure trove of inspiring stories and actionable insights for anyone interested in the evolving beverage industry and beyond.

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Andy Esam
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Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
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Speaker 1:

Hey Andy.

Speaker 2:

Hi Rich.

Speaker 1:

We won't be welcoming anyone to the show this week?

Speaker 2:

will we, because people know who we are now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's, that's what we heard, yeah.

Speaker 2:

What did you read it?

Speaker 1:

on I read it on a podcast marketing email. They said don't do your intros because people know who you are by now and if they don't, they can just read it. And I think my maybe my intros were getting too weird for you yeah, they were.

Speaker 2:

They were uncomfortable, so I'm quite happy about that. I think maybe that was a sign you were getting bored and you had to ham it up. So maybe it's yeah, it's a good thing we've dropped it yeah, maybe.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean, we're gonna imply that people are welcome. We're not going to explicitly state it, but they are welcome aren't they?

Speaker 2:

they're very welcome and they're going to love this episode, which made me feel both inspired and old inspired, and old, that classic combination, yeah, everyone someone just left college and started a business in 2020 made me feel old because it feels like 2020 is yesterday and I definitely hadn't just finished college.

Speaker 1:

No, well, I mean, you could say that he's an inspiration to you in that he's done his degree in real estate and then gone on to do other things. Well, yeah, that's another angle.

Speaker 2:

But it was more that he just seemed very together and driven and he's doing some really cool stuff, yeah, inspiring. Really interesting to hear what he's doing. Yeah, cool stuff, yeah, inspiring. Really interesting to hear what he's doing. Yeah, yeah, he is.

Speaker 1:

So it's Jack Espy. He is the founder of Spirited Hive, which is a done-for-you better. What did he call it? Better alcohol? Yeah, essentially Superior alcohol drink.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, nourishing, natural ingredient, alcohol mix and the key part being that the sweetener is all natural honey Actually sounds freaking delicious. It turns out he was making cocktails with honey that no one else was. He didn't realize, but then he kind of stumbled into this awesome business and it sounds like they're going great guns and when I'm next over I'm going to have to try them, because they're only in the states at the moment, but hopefully they'll grow sufficiently that I get my fill over in.

Speaker 1:

Europe get your fill. Yeah, so we talk about alcohol, the what it means to have a healthy relationship with alcohol, how can, how you can mitigate your hangovers as well as you know, artificial sweeteners versus natural sweeteners, and we learn a little bit more about Jack's life. We talk a bit about generational stuff what's going on with his generation, gen Z, and what Jack is doing different to sort of raise himself up out of the typical struggles that you read about with Gen Z.

Speaker 2:

What was interesting as well is he kind of said what I was thinking the typical struggles that you read about with Gen Z. What was interesting as well, he kind of said what I was thinking, which is that when he goes on podcasts he gets a bit of pushback about the wellness versus the alcohol thing. But of course you can have a healthy relationship with alcohol and you can take alcohol mindfully. And he kind of very much answers that very honestly and with a lot of critical thinking.

Speaker 1:

I thought Absolutely All right. Well, enjoy, listener, and we will see you at the end of the episode. Enjoy, bye-bye, enjoy, hey, listener. Quick favour, quick favour. Do you like my Stephen Bartlett impression there? Do you know what would really help us If you could share this podcast with someone you love, if you think it's good, and if you don't think it's good, share it with someone you don't love. Either way, we get more listeners, which is good for us and will be good for you in the long run, because of karma and going to heaven, maybe. So, yeah, maybe. Share that you are listening to it. Share on Instagram, take a screenshot of our episode and put it out there, and maybe we'll give you a shout out as well.

Speaker 2:

Jack, thanks so much for coming on. What is Spirited Hive and why do we need it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so yeah, thank you guys so much for having me on so Spirited. Hive is a better for you canned cocktail that is 100% sweetened with organic wildflower honey. So we're not using any synthetic sugars or anything like that in the drink. It's only using natural and organic ingredients and pretty much that background behind the product is exactly why I think people out there need this drink. I'm all about better for you ingredients and using natural sweeteners rather than synthetic sweeteners, and every other canned cocktail pretty much on the market uses these synthetic sugars. So if there's a product out there like Hive that gives these consumers the ability to have a better for you can't cocktail, obviously drinking within moderation I think that's an awesome alternative for people to have absolutely yeah, drinking in moderation, but um, you mentioned synthetic sweeteners.

Speaker 1:

Now, what is the problem with synthetic sweeteners?

Speaker 3:

yeah, there's a lot of um, you know, research being conducted in this space and a lot of them are cancer causing, which is a huge issue and that's all being uncovered right now, especially with brands such as diet coke, etc. And the thing that's really interesting, and you know, especially within the health and wellness community, is there's kind of two types of health and wellness. There's the health and wellness behind ingredients, which I'm super focused on better for you sugars, et cetera and then there's a health and wellness community that's really focused on counting calories. At that point in time, it doesn't really matter what you're ingesting into your body, as long as you're focusing on those macros and not going above them. That's all that matters. So these synthetic sugars are very helpful to get there so you can have these very sweet tasting things, but they don't affect the macros that you're ingesting into your body yeah, I, I've been on many sides of that fence sometimes, you know, counting calories for dieting down and just being really extreme orthorexic in that.

Speaker 1:

yeah, I would do anything to get that sweetness without putting on weight. But now I think there's a place for both. I often will use a bit of artificial sweetener, like stevia, monk fruit and honey. It just means I have you know the flavor of honey, I get some of those natural sugars and with good honey you know the enzymes and the probiotics and I get it even sweeter as well. So so, yeah, I definitely think there's a place for both those things in people's lives give me a common example of one of each then.

Speaker 3:

So like obviously a an organic sweetener would be honey, but like typical synthetic sweeteners that we see uh, like sucralose is a big one that's being utilized, erythritol are two big ones that you see a lot of time in drinks and in food products.

Speaker 3:

Stevia is organic, which is great. There is some research coming out, slowly but surely, on some negative causes of stevia, one of the biggest one being is that your body processes it differently. So if you utilize stevia, or you use stevia as a sweetener in your coffee or whatever, and you feel bloated afterwards, that's because your body produces and breaks that down differently than, let's say, honey. You know, the amazing thing about honey is it's the world's first natural sweetener and I don't know if you guys know this, but honey never goes bad. I mean, there's all these articles coming out right now that they just uncovered a tomb in Egypt with with honey that's over 2 000 years old and it's perfectly preserved in the pots. So it it never goes bad and it's awesome because that helps preserve our product as well and shelf life stability on, you know, for our products sitting on the shelf, which is great has anyone actually tried eating that honey, though I?

Speaker 3:

don't know. I will have to look into I would give it a try.

Speaker 1:

I would give it a try, you know, I mean, it's not, it doesn't go bad yeah, I'll volunteer, yeah yeah, the um artificial sweetener debate, I think is one that will rage on, and I think it's one of those things that will require us to look at the body of evidence you know, when some people will say, like, well, there's this one study that showed it may cause cancer.

Speaker 1:

You know, with erythritol I think there were some issues. Last year a big study came out, but then there's so many other studies that shows it's safe. And when there are things that are like this, yeah, I think you've got to wait several years for a body of evidence to uh to be like well, the the weight of evidence suggests it is cancer causing, or the weight of evidence suggests it's mostly safe, but maybe a minority of people will have it. But yeah, I'm, I'm always keeping up to date with sweetener research because I do have a sweet tooth and, yeah, I want to stay healthy at the same time yeah, and the interesting thing too on that is like, look at the end of the day, like I don't ingest it.

Speaker 3:

And that's kind of why we created Spirited Hive is to give another option for people who are sensitive to those kinds of things. And by no means do I think these synthetic sugars are ever going to go away. And you're totally right, there's always contradictory evidence towards whatever it is, just like with dieting, like carnivore diet, and then you have vegetarians and like they're going at it. And then there's people in the middle that are like I don't really know which way to lean, and there's always evidence that come out that says synthetic sugars are bad. And then there's other evidence that comes out oh, it's not bad at all, like it's totally fine. So I think that'll always be up for debate, debate and that'll be a never ending debate. But at least what I'm trying to do is just give another option for people out there who want to have an all natural and organic sweetened, to live within that category, which there really isn't that many. So that's something that we've been trying to do over the past couple of years.

Speaker 2:

You've spoken a bit about it, but can we just get a little bit behind the story of the creation of Spirited Hive and how you came to it?

Speaker 3:

Totally. Yeah. I like to call it a happy accident, if you will. So my whole background before the pandemic. I started this company in the pandemic, but my whole background before this? I was actually in college. I was studying real estate development and real estate finance and the job that I had lined up right outside of school fell through because of the pandemic. It was like a couple of days into the pandemic when I was supposed to have my last interview and it fell through.

Speaker 3:

And, like everyone else, at this point in time I was at home mixing up one too many quarantine cocktails and one night I was behind the bar making my two favorite drinks, which are Moscow mules and Mexican mules, and I was making these drinks for all my friends. And it's not because I'm a mixologist or anything like that. I always jokingly say like I was the least lazy one to actually get up and make these drinks of all my buddies. So I'm making these Moscow mules and Mexican mules for all my friends, mexican mules for all my friends. And you know, after, uh, after them, having a couple, they were like Jack, like these are really, really good, like you should, can these things Cause this was right at the beginning of the whole can cocktail boom. This was right when high noon launched. Uh, high noon launched like right at the end of 2019. So, very, very fresh into this can cocktail craze, and I was like, well, I've got nothing else better going on, why not take a stab at this? Not knowing how long COVID was really going to last, I thought I was just going to do this for fun for a little while. And then, three weeks, a month later, covid ends and I just jumped back into finding a new job in real estate. Little did I know. Here we are four years later and I have a canned cocktail empire and opening up new States.

Speaker 3:

Um, so back to the story. So we're all sitting around the bar and my friend's like you should can this thing. And I was like, yeah, no, I might as well take a stab at it. So we're all thinking about different names for this brand and I have an aha moment and I was like, well, what about the name mint B? And they all look at me and they was like, well, what about the name Mint B? And they all look at me and they're like, first of all, that's the stupidest name I've ever heard of. But why Mint B, it doesn't make any sense. And I was like, well, you know, because there's Mint and I'm all scoundrel. And B because they're both sweetened with honey. They're like dude, what are you talking about? There's no honey in either of those drinks.

Speaker 3:

And if you hadn't already told, from just talking to me for the past like 10 minutes, I love honey. I mean, I put honey on literally everything, from my coffee to my yogurt to my steak. I put it on literally everything. So I just so happen to be sweetening these drinks with honey without even realizing it. And so my friends were like, oh well, that's like an interesting idea. And I was like, well, yeah, what if I took a different approach at the whole canned cocktail industry, kind of what we were talking about. And I made a better for you canned cocktail that was only sweetened with honey.

Speaker 3:

So I started off in that journey with our take on a Mexican mule, so tequila infused with honey, ginger and lime, and was bringing that to parties during the pandemic and my friends were loving it. And then my bourbon loving buddies were like, hey, does this whole hive thing work with bourbon? So then I made a bourbon and then my friends that were girls were like I don't really like tequila, I don't really like bourbon, but I love vodka. Does it work with vodka? So then we made our take on a Cosmo, so a cranberry lime infused honey. And then the same thing happened with gin. But I'm a big gin drinker and I was like, well, what if I took this approach and made our take on a Tom Collins and then launched a lemon and juniper berry infused honey and then launched this idea two years later, as Spirited Hive Kind of wordsmithed it and didn't launch with Mint B, but launched it in May of 2022 in Nashville and built it as a Nashville brand.

Speaker 3:

So here we are, just over two years later.

Speaker 3:

We're now throughout the rest of Tennessee, we're in Michigan, we're in Georgia, we're in Texas and in Florida and in 2025, we're going to probably open up another one or two states which we're super excited about.

Speaker 3:

But we're all about low growth and really owning every market that we're in and creating that sense of hive community in each market. And that's something that means so much to me is this whole idea of hive community, and that's kind of what was at the backbone of building this brand, was built for friends, with friends, on the sense of hive, you know who are your close friends, your new friends, your old friends, your work friends, really anyone that you love to spend time with. And not everyone in your hive brings the same personality to the group. Each hive has a different personality from each friend, but they also have different alcohol preferences. Not everyone likes, you know, gin, vodka, bourbon or tequila, but they probably like one of them and if they like the idea of a better for you can cocktail. Well, hey, we got something for everyone in your hive. So building that messaging and building that sense of community over the past couple of years has been amazing and continuing that growth, you know, for the rest of 2024 and and on.

Speaker 1:

Great story yeah. I can really see the evolution of it? And Jack, did you know that Andy and I did our masters in real estate? So should we just stop talking about alcohol and wellness and talk about what we really want Valuations, affordable housing.

Speaker 3:

Right, I love it. Yeah, it's so funny because all my friends continued, because I went to USC and I studied real estate and finance at USC. So all my buddies there continued on into real estate and I obviously didn't. So it's funny to have those conversations with them now and they're talking about cap rates and everything and it's like coming back to me and I'm like, oh, no way, it's so weird to talk about like PTSD flashbacks.

Speaker 1:

That's how it feels literally yeah me and university like oh no well, I was the same exactly, and so I mean the conversation about alcohol. I think some people see it in a black and white way. Some people think you have to be t total uh, whereas sort of our parents generation think you should have like a bottle of wine a day and that's normal. How do you have this conversation about what it means to be have a healthy relationship with alcohol?

Speaker 3:

yeah, and look it's, it's. It's interesting because you know I'm on a lot of podcasts and a lot of these podcasts tend to be health and wellness podcasts and they're kind of like well, that doesn't make any sense. You're the ceo and founder of a beverage alcohol brand and I got a. I get a lot of pushback, but I, to your point, I don't see it as black and white. I don't know how to balance it. But now my whole thing is like I honestly don't drink that often.

Speaker 3:

I may have a drink here and there, but I do it in moderation and I think anything in moderation just like working out you work out too much, you get overloaded and that's not good for you. So I think everything in moderation is fine and being able to know when you have an issue with alcohol is a big, big thing, especially nowadays. And my huge thing too is focusing on those better for you ingredients that you're drinking, rather than drinking any synthetic ingredients when you are drinking alcohol. But to really bring it home, anything in moderation, in my opinion, is okay, and if you're having one or two glasses of wine or a hive or two on a Saturday night, that's totally fine, but if you're drinking multiple times a week. That's when that's an issue.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think that's about right about where I would stand on that. And yeah, I think that sort of the recent history of alcohol, or at least since the Industrial Revolution, it's quite a fascinating one. So I don't know if you're aware of this, but there was this sort of the gin craze in London during the Industrial Revolution where pretty much everyone was an alcoholic just drinking gin all the time because living conditions were so bad. People have gone from you know, feudal lifestyles into these big cities working in the dark satanic mills and people's lives were just really the living standards were really low, many people living in very small quarters, people working very few unions. Workers' rights was a nascent idea, so the factory owners and the governments were quite happy to let people just drown their sorrows.

Speaker 1:

And yeah, there is sort of this when you hear sort of conspiracy theorists or sort of alternative people saying like at the top of society they need the workers to just fuel themselves with caffeine. People are addicted to caffeine, supposedly, and then at the end of the week they need to to decompress by binge drinking effectively. But, um, I think alcohol. Often people will say, oh, this person's got a problem with alcohol. I often think, no, alcohol is not their problem. It's how they manage their problems. Alcohol is the crutch that they're using to to manage their life and you hit the nail on the head.

Speaker 3:

I mean mean, that's the biggest thing is like it's not alcohol is not the issue. At the end of the day, it's the person that's drinking the alcohol. That is the issue. If they have an issue with drinking alcohol, that's the problem, not them drinking alcohol in general, and I think that's the biggest thing.

Speaker 3:

Everything in moderation, like we're talking about, and I think this movement that we're seeing on social media right now, with all these people who are becoming sober or sober curious, I think that's amazing and I think that is an awesome way for especially my generation, to be leading towards not drinking as much, not feeling like you have to have a drink to be social, like to go out to a bar to meet people, I think, like this new age of people going to run clubs to meet people, to socialize and feel like they can get out of their shell without having a drink, I think that's absolutely amazing.

Speaker 3:

Where I have an issue with it is when they see it as a negative. If someone's drinking like, oh, you drink, that's negative and that's where I have my issue with it. It's like why would you have an issue with someone drinking? And it's not. It has nothing to do with you. So I think, like we kind of keep bringing it home. Anything in moderation is fine, but I think this huge craze around people not drinking and all these NA companies that are coming out is absolutely amazing too, and we're we're focused on doing that as well with within my company too is that the biggest shift then in the beverage sector?

Speaker 2:

the non-alcohol thing, because I've I've also seen them, uh, just as a complete outsider a pretty meteoric rise in those in the hard seltzers in the last sort of five years. I was absolutely stunned, when I was last in the states, how many of those there are. Is there a sort of more health conscious angle too?

Speaker 3:

yeah. So it kind of there's. There's like two shifts. So the first shift was the malt beverage. So malt is it's a synthetically made alcohol, so that comes from beer, some malt beer and what. That was everywhere because of taxes. So you get taxed the same as beer and those can be in many more points of distribution across states, Whereas then the rise of spirit can cocktails so vodka, gin, bourbon, tequila, those started to come out because that alcohol is actually pure alcohol and it was better for you and it gives you a better buzz than malt.

Speaker 3:

Malt makes you feel a lot more hungover since it's synthetic. So there was that first rise of malt that died off into RTDs and then the RTD boom started and now this next kind of wave is the NA. You know non-alcoholic. That's become huge in the past. You know year, year and a half, I don't know.

Speaker 3:

I'm very skeptic of that industry because at the end of the day it's just a glorified soda, but you're paying for so much more. Day it's just a glorified soda, but you're paying for so much more for something that's just a glorified soda unless it has functional benefits. So it gives you a buzz of supplements or it gives you a buzz from like lion's mane or reishi mushroom or something like that. Like those kind of make sense. But this whole rise of NA just drinks that have nothing to do with alcohol, it's just a alcoholic substitute. I don't know how much longer that's going to be around, but within the health and wellness industry, the amount of energy drinks and hydration drinks and recovery drinks that are coming out that also can be used as alcohol supplements has become massive as well sure, so what do you think?

Speaker 2:

what sort of direction would you predict the beverage industry is going in?

Speaker 3:

rtds are going to continue to grow, um, and you know that because now we've been seeing the big, big guys get into it, so the jack daniels of the world, the soroks of the world, um, which makes it a lot harder on us, the smaller guys, uh, to be able to have shelf space, but that shows that this industry is going to be around for a while. I continue to see the malt side of things die off, but the ready to drink space, so ready to drink canned cocktails, will be around for a while and I still think that the non-out side of things will continue to grow, but I think that will plateau at some point in the next year or two. I don't think I can't see that continuing to grow as much as the ready to drink side of things with cane cocktails, because there's actually spirits in them, um, because, like I was saying, you know, a non-alcoholic drink and a soda are relatively similar okay, and so for people who do want to drink, what should they be looking for when they're picking an alcohol?

Speaker 1:

Obviously, you've got your different varieties. Is there any truth to the fact that? Or is there any truth to the idea that, yeah, drinking vodka, you'll have less of a hangover than red wine? What do you look for in the specific alcohols you put in your products?

Speaker 3:

no-transcript back to Hive, and that's kind of what we try to create. But there's many other drinks out there too. But if you're really trying to stay on top of your health and you're trying to stay on top of not feeling as hungover the next day, the best thing to do is to have tequila on the rocks with club soda and a little bit of lime or vodka on the rocks with club soda. And also, too, the best thing to do if you're having one or two drinks is always have water in between. You know you always want to stay hydrated and that also slows your drinking too, because if you're going from drink to drink to drink with no water in between, those drinks happen quickly. So if you're taking a step, you're having water, you're eating in between.

Speaker 3:

That's the best way to not only drink in moderation, but to also make sure that you're hydrating and you're actually fueling your body rather than just putting alcohol into your system. Because at the end of the day and I always tell people, yes, I own a beverage alcohol company, but I am extremely transparent Alcohol is a poison. At the end of the day, you're poisoning your body. So you want to make sure that everything in moderation, but also you're doing the right steps for having water and to also eat some food, so that way your body's fueled, rather than doing any of this on an empty stomach rather than doing any of this on an empty stomach.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the water one. Most people know that. But one thing I think people don't know you can do is you can put electrolytes in cocktail 100% LMNT.

Speaker 3:

My girlfriend and I love to put LMNT into tequila.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's great, or even better. We just had Samantha from Oryx Salt, and they have an electrolyte. The salt is actually from a South Africanan mine, so it's not just sodium chloride, it's mineral rich. So yeah, I'm looking. She's sending us some, I think, so I'm looking forward to trying some of that repower, repower. Yes, I'll have to check that out. That's a good one and another.

Speaker 3:

Another thing I want to touch on too, because with this whole rise of na beers, so I I actually don't drink beer, but I love non alcoholic beer, which is very weird. So, like athletic brewing company I don't know if you guys have heard of them their beers are amazing and I always thought, with being in this industry for a while, that anyone that drank NA beers pretty much didn't drink at all. But I heard a crazy stat that any, the average amount of people it's 80% of people who drink non-alcoholic beers, use it as kind of an in-between beer. So you're having one beer that has alcohol and then you have an NA beer, so it slows you, so you're not ingesting as much alcohol, and then it also helps kind of take a little pacer in between both beers. So I found that super interesting 80%, I mean, you think it would be inverse.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, very high.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I have some in my fridge. I didn't buy them, but friends bring them over and then leave them after parties. But, yeah, I think that's exactly the way I would use it. It's one for me, one for you. One alcohol, one non-alcohol. What other strategies do you have for hangover mitigation? Other?

Speaker 3:

than just drinking water. I mean getting enough sleep. That's the biggest thing. Another big thing for me is, you know, in the morning I always work out, no matter what, because I just need to get my body back on track. I'm a huge proponent of cold immersion, so I love getting in the cold and in the hot, and that always makes me feel better, even if I'm not hungover, if I'm sick or whatever. I'll get in the cold, I'll get in the heat, and that really kind of resets my body. So those are two big things that I always try to do, regardless. Those are my day to day things, but if I'm hungover the next day or if I'm not feeling 100%, I'll always get in a good workout. I've been running a lot recently and that's always tough to get in a run after like a night out, but my whole thing is I'll feel better afterwards, so I always try to get it in. And then, if I have the ability to jump in a cold plunge and if I'm near a sauna, I'll always get those two in as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, they're pretty good strategies. Have you heard of Z-biotic? Z-biotic? I do not know. No, so Z-biotic is this new type of. It's a probiotic, but it's genetically engineered to eat acid aldehyde. So acid aldehyde is the product that your body produces after exposure to alcohol. That's the sort of the poison that the body produces and often it just gets dumped in the gut and that's why we'll get stomach issues. But this probiotic eats it and clears it up for you. So you take a little shot of it before you drink alcohol and it helps with the hangover. Have you tried this?

Speaker 3:

yet no way yeah I'll have to check that out I've got.

Speaker 1:

I've got a subscription.

Speaker 2:

You didn't tell me last time I was with you just let me get slowly pissed whilst being having the cheat code well, I didn't pack.

Speaker 1:

I mean, yeah, they're liquid, so I couldn't travel with them, and the last time we saw each other we we had to fly. So that's, that's my excuse. If you come to my house, you can have some um other other strategies I use um glutaryl glutathione so have you yeah, I take glutathione, glutathione yeah, I take glutathione.

Speaker 1:

Okay, nice. Yeah, I've got glutathione, which is like it's a spray, so it's a transdermal one, which supposedly helps with the absorption rate. So that's another thing that helps with the detox process. And charcoal activated charcoal. Have you tried that one just before bed? Yeah, so that's another thing that saps up the, the acid aldehyde, just before you go to bed and I think another fissile milk thistle, yeah, supports the liver.

Speaker 1:

That one's amazing, yeah that's a good one, milk thistle and I think just another strategy that maybe is not biohacking, they're just day drinking, because if you day drink, you sleep well yeah you do sleep well, that is a big and that's the biggest thing too.

Speaker 3:

And when you ask, like, what are the best things to get good sleep and that's the one big thing is like when you drink, it affects your sleep 100%. I used to wear a whoop every single day and I would see, like, my recovery after a day of drinking. And there's a huge difference between having two drinks and going to sleep and having six or seven drinks. Your sleep gets affected insane amount just from a couple more drinks. So always managing how much you're drinking, too, will always affect your sleep. But day drinking, yeah, and the best way to recover. Like, if I play golf, I'm always having a drink or two, because my game without having a drink or two is terrible. You know I need to get a little bit loose and get out there, so I'll have a hive or two, but then I go to sleep, I feel fine and by the next morning I'm ready to go. So that's a. That's a great point right there.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think this is a lot about golf and the fact that it's called a sport. I don't think you can have a sport where alcohol enhances your performance sport I don't think you can have a sport where alcohol enhances your performance yeah, true true, pickleball.

Speaker 3:

I'm pretty competitive. We'll take pickleball back off, because about two years ago I would have said pickleball, but now I'm really into it. So, yeah, I need to be ready for that. Fair enough, fair enough.

Speaker 2:

So you mentioned. Yeah, I was just gonna say about sleep.

Speaker 1:

I think what some misconception or people don't realize about alcohol and sleep is how harmful it is for sleep. You know people will say, oh, I'll have a nightcap to help me go to sleep. That was traditionally what people would do. But they don't realize that really messes up sleep architecture and it's a bit like knocking yourself out with a hammer you're unconscious but you're not really restoring yourself. So that's why I think day drinking is so important and that's why I think people should be just aware of how harmful alcohol is right before bed, certainly for recovery, and what were you going to say?

Speaker 2:

I was just going to say you're obviously much younger than us, but you're a young CEO and a founder and you touched a bit on your working out and running and cold and hot exposure. But how do you maintain a sort of healthy work-life balance when you are so committed to this um product?

Speaker 3:

totally and that's really comes down to a day-to-day obviously. I, like I was saying, I always try to get a workout in every single day and the best thing that I have found, actually pretty recently, is to train for something. So, because I've always been on top of my health and fitness, for the past 10 years pretty much, I've been on top of it and I've been very focused on feeling the best, feeling myself the best, etc. But you kind of get into this mundane thing where it's like you're just doing it every single day and you're not really training for something. That really keeps you honest with yourself. So I started signing up for things and training for it and putting myself in the ringer of okay, I got to train for this, I need to stay on top of whatever it is so I can actually succeed in whatever I'm training for. So, like right now, I'm training for the ultimate Hawaii trail run, which is actually back where we met Richard on in Kauai. I'm doing a 10 mile trail run with a 40 pound rucksack through the jungle. So it's kind of hard to train for something like that. But I'm also training for a high rocks in uh, when is that November? Um, but those things kind of keep me honest and also keep me excited, keep me into like, oh, like. I've got to run today because I need to get up my you know endurance for running, so that's awesome.

Speaker 3:

And then another big thing I've started doing breath work over the past year. That's been great just to kind of keep everything together in a sense, because obviously it's super stressful being a founder and a CEO at my age as well, because I have a lot of people that are working for me that are much older and we have to meet deadlines. We have all these things going on. So to give myself 10 or 15 minutes, almost like reset in the middle of the day and I like to do it in the middle of the day, not in the morning or at night, I do it right in the middle of the day to kind of give myself this kind of break throughout the day just to kind of focus on me and me alone. And that's it. Because if I'm not on top of myself and I'm not feeling my best, then not only will my employees see it, but my leadership skills will go down and also, at the end of the day, hive will be affected by that too.

Speaker 3:

And then I talked about it earlier cold and heat exposure, some contrast therapy that makes me feel absolutely amazing and invigorates me every single day, like getting in the cold, and I started doing this about three years ago. I do not take hot showers anymore, I only take cold showers, and it is the hardest thing to do in the morning. But I find that if you face a challenge first thing, then you wake up. That it only makes your day easier from that point on. So, getting in the cold, even though it's super hard and it's like the worst thing ever at 6 am to jump right in the cold water you're like okay, I faced that challenge, now let's face another challenge. Water You're like okay, I faced that challenge. Now like, let's face another challenge.

Speaker 3:

And that's really like I found being a leader and being a founder is always facing challenges, and facing those challenges head on has been awesome and that can come to working out, and I think that's why I love training for things, because it's a challenge and it's always overcoming that challenge whether that's lifting heavier or running farther or whatever it is, or just completing the goal it's. It motivates me every single day. Um, so yeah.

Speaker 1:

Amazing. Well, yeah, I mean, you're clearly I've spotted this when I met you clearly sort of an outlier within your generation, because if you read the news, uh, your generation, gen Z, are sort of the most troubled generation in history, all struggling with anxiety and living with their parents. They're not dating, they're not, they're confused about their gender, they're confused about everything. So what do you think is going on with your generation?

Speaker 3:

What do you think the people who are struggling and getting wrong, Totally, and I think at the end of the day, it's a double-edged sword, because something that we rely on so heavily with Hive and myself is social media. I'm trying to build a company and grow awareness around Hive through social media and through this next company that I'm building, and then also trying to build up my own following so that way I can push both of those brands, be almost like a creator, founder, like create, to show off what are these brands, to educate people. But at the same time, social media is corrupting everyone in the Gen Z and early millennial or later millennial age people, because they're so intertwined into the phone every single day, and that is very negative in the sense that people are always aspiring to be someone else and they're not comfortable in their own skin, and that, in my opinion, is very, very toxic, because they're never going to be perfect. There's always someone else to look at and be like oh, I want to be that person, or I want to be that, or I want to be this or whatever, and they're never comfortable in their own skin and they're also being shown all these crazy things on Instagram at all times of the day and they're never just sitting with themselves, and I think that's a big thing about breathwork is kind of focusing within and building up your true character and who you are, whereas I think my generation doesn't focus on that whatsoever and everything's kind of handed to them and they don't have to deal with challenges and they're always comfortable.

Speaker 3:

You know, and to be always comfortable is an issue. You always have to face those challenges and I found that not so much my friends, because I always try to be around people who motivate me, but I've seen other people just kind of go through the motions and when you're going through the motions that's stagnant and that's a death in my opinion. And I see a lot of people, especially Gen Z, do that. And I have a younger brother and I always try to motivate him to face challenges in his day-to-day life and it's sad to see because he's very motivated. But I see some of his friends just kind of like, like I'm saying, going through the motions and just just aren't driven, don't have that drive, and at the end of the day, like that drive is what drives you forward. And I think these things in your hand, in your pocket all the time, always having something to scroll through, really, really takes away that drive at the end of the day.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think you've got a lot of wise words there. I think social media is certainly to blame and there was. I saw the new deadpool 2 movie. Oh sorry, deadpool 3 is so good, I won't spoil it but there was one amazing line that I have to share. But, um, yeah, deadpool is sort of having an argument with a villain they're a young person, they're Gen Z and Deadpool just shouts to this person oh, you, gen Zs, always trauma bragging. Why can't you just turn it into achievement or cancer, like the rest of us? I thought that was brilliant because it's making fun of the Gen Z and everyone else at the same time.

Speaker 3:

And it's interesting because my generation is always playing the victim card. And I don't understand that, because you think we're living in an age, in a time, where you have the ability to do anything you want. Everything is at your fingertips, and instead of taking that and putting it towards positivity, here we are always playing the victim role of whatever it is. You look at what's going on in the world right now, around people confused about their gender or whatever and getting angry about it and accusing people left and right, and it's like, at the end of the day, no one gives a shit. Just do you, but don't get mad at everyone for your problems and what you're having issues with. Like it's always this victim card over and over and over again and at the end of the day, it really, it really annoys me. Um, so I do think a lot of it stems from social media, but at the end of the day, I don't really know where a lot of those, this victim mentality, is coming from and where the whole world is against everyone.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that victim Olympics thing is not really helpful for people. It's a bit like Instagram you get a little reward but then ultimately you're harming yourself by making yourself the biggest victim. And I love Jonathan Haidt's work. Jonathan Haidt wrote the Coddling of the American Mind and he's just written a new book, the anxious generation. He's a an nyu professor. I think he's at nyu, but he was.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I was listening to him on another podcast and he was saying, like if you look at gen z and their sort of most prominent people, there aren't really anyone who's done anything of significance to improve the world, apart from greta thunberg. She's sort of the only gen z that anyone can name as sort of doing anything positive for the world, whereas you know other the millennials have. Or you know mark zuckerberg and all these other sort of people. You know tech people who have changed the world, and then he, you know, goes all the way back to like alexander hamilton, who, age 14, was like leading a battalion of ships in the Caribbean and then fighting in wars age 16, 17 and um, yeah, I do think the sort of the coddling that Jonathan Haidt talks about. And then the social media and the lack of challenge that people have to face these days has has led to a sort of a generation who some people are calling a lost generation yeah, no, I totally see it.

Speaker 3:

Um, and it's sad and I think, you know, one thing that I always try to do is just always, like I was saying, kind of push myself and educate myself. And one of the books that I read that really kind of got me into this whole mindset of challenging myself was have you guys read the comfort crisis? Such an amazing book and that really turned my focus not only on challenging myself, but I remember I was reading it on a plane and he talks about social media and how we always have to have some type of engagement going on and we can never be bored. And it was insane because I just sat there and put the book down for a second and just sat there and the amount of times I wanted to go grab my phone was like 20 times in a matter of a minute and I was like I'm part of this, you know, and I was like, wow, I really need to work on that.

Speaker 3:

And also, through that book, it really focused on me that whenever you face challenges in your life, that kind of builds your armor, builds you up as a man, and that's what I always focus on. It's like I always want to do these challenges to make myself better, like Richard when we were in Hawaii doing the Laird Hamilton adventure on the pool. That pushing yourself and that's getting out of your comfort zone and that's the biggest thing, is always getting out of your comfort zone because you not only can face challenge but you learn about yourself and I think that's the biggest thing. It's like you learn about yourself through this discomfort and I feel like my generation isn't willing to do that because everything's kind of given to them and it's easy. So why? Why would they? You know?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, have you heard about the trend of raw dogging long haul flights?

Speaker 3:

I'm actually I'm when I'm going to hawaii.

Speaker 2:

I was thinking about doing harland did it recently, didn't he? It's fantastic just watching the map, yeah yeah, I think that's it.

Speaker 1:

Just watching the map, no phone, no music.

Speaker 2:

Yeah harland, I think he. He claimed to have done it on manchester city's recent flight back from the States.

Speaker 1:

Okay, crazy, very impressive.

Speaker 2:

So you mentioned a lot about facing challenges and stepping out of your comfort zone. Have you got any other advice for aspiring entrepreneurs?

Speaker 3:

Yes, yeah, I mean I talk about this a lot. If any entrepreneur like, look at my story. I kind of fell into it and I just kind of rolled with it and I had an idea in my head that I thought would affect people and change people's lives, not for like an insane amount, but on the day to day, and I was like, well, this seems like a cool idea, like let's see what happens. But I made that first step and that's the biggest and scariest thing is to make that first step. So I always try to encourage not only young founders but any age founder to make that first step. If you have an idea that you're passionate about, like, and you see a true path for it, like you will do anything to get it there.

Speaker 3:

But the biggest and scariest thing is just making that first step. And it doesn't need to be pretty, but just do it and just start. And like I had no idea what I was doing. Not only had I never worked for someone before ever, but I knew nothing about CPG. I knew nothing about beverage. I literally was like how hard could this be? It turns out very, very difficult. About beverage, I literally was like how hard could this be? It turns out very, very difficult. But I had this vision and I took that first step and I took, and I and you learn as you go. I mean, like a lot of people, I think they need to know everything before they do something, and I am a true proponent of you'll figure it out as you go, as long as you're passionate about it. Just take that first step and you're at least moving in the right direction, and you'll figure out the rest as you go.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and going back to that, the struggling generation. Some people say, well, we can get annoyed about generations struggling and being anxious. Or we could say, well, it's never been easier to be successful for us if we let go of that.

Speaker 1:

you know the victim mentality, and one of the things I've sort of learned in doing academic research is just like so I think some people have the idea. One of our podcast guests had the idea that there's there are people organizing the world, not in like a conspiracy thing, but there are people who know what's going on and they're directing things and they have everyone's best interest at heart and they can oversee things. So I was talking about this research study in Australia that people had done in schools and then our guest had said, oh, that's a really good study, but they'd never picked someone like me to do that kind of study. I hadn't heard about that, because why would they pick someone like me? And I was just thinking I didn't say to him at the time, but I was saying like well, no one picks someone to do these things, people just go out and do them. No one picked me to do the biggest ever randomized control trial on conscious connected breathing. I just did it because I realized no one else was going to do it.

Speaker 1:

And this is also what I've seen when, like doing the literature review on conscious connected breathing. It's like there's so many gaps. You just like you would think like someone would be like well, we need to do a research study on this. Go over you, go over there and do that study. There's no one directing anything, it's just everyone's sort of out for themselves and you just got to get up off your ass and do what you want to do. But I'm not wait for someone to tell you to do things or tell you which direction to go in, because, yeah, it's the only way things get done things.

Speaker 3:

or tell you which direction to go in, because, yeah, it's the only way things get done. Yeah, and I think you know, at the end of the day, like it's so cliche to say, but the world is your oyster, and I'll, at the end of the day, like if I hadn't have built hive, someone would have this idea would have been done, you know. So I wasn't sitting there like, oh, that's cool, like, oh, I wouldn't, I can't do that, though I don't know anything about the beverage alcohol industry, so I can't do it. Someone else and that someone else is me, I went and did it, and I think that's the biggest thing is this idea of negative self-talk, and I think that's what kills people nowadays, and I don't know why. But I feel like this negative self-talk is so much more prevalent in my generation than it is in the millennials generation. I feel like millennials are much more doers and I think a lot of that has to do because negative self-talk isn't as big.

Speaker 3:

But I have so many friends that are just talking down on themselves and I'm like, what does that do At the end of the day? If you talk down on yourself, that is doing nothing but negative things Like that doesn't help build you up or it doesn't help the situation. That's only making the situation worse and making you feel worse about yourself. So just don't do it. And I find that that's a big thing that I've been focusing on, because everyone has negative self-talk at the end of the day, no matter how minute or how big it is. Because everyone has negative self-talk at the end of the day, no matter how minute or how big it is, everyone has it. So focusing on that to always build yourself up, then push yourself down can make a huge difference in your day-to-day life.

Speaker 2:

I've found wow, you mentioned um some. Could I ask for some other kind of resources you use that help you in terms of the let's call them books, podcasts, anything?

Speaker 3:

in that space. That helps. I mean, you mentioned the Comfort Crisis. Yeah, Comfort Crisis is a great book. A book that I just grabbed that I love is Master your Code and it's just it's mainly around like leadership and actually like owning your life and becoming a good leader, because you know, that's a big thing about what I do too is, you know, I am a leader of people Pretty much. I am the youngest one at the company and I'm leading people who are twice my age, so, and that can be a tough hurdle to jump over, but as long as you're leading from a good place, this book really covers a lot of that, which is great. Other things that I've listened to I'm trying to think, other good things that I have really liked and has been motivating me Jocko Willink's book is great.

Speaker 3:

I really like his books. Extreme Ownership is awesome because I do love Navy SEAL books and it's both Navy SEAL and leadership and it kind of goes through his time in Ramadi and how he kind of learned these leadership concepts after being in battle and all that and that's kind of intense. But a lot of the things that he preaches in that book around leadership and extreme ownership Because at the end of the day, being the founder of a company, every decision at the end of the day is pretty much your decision and anything that happened poorly with the company is your decision. Everything that happened is great. You work towards with the company to kind of build that out. So having that extreme ownership as a leader has always been big too. But I go back to Comfort. Crisis still is probably my favorite book that I've read. That's really helped me become more of a man and has also helped me honestly become more of a leader too awesome, and, yeah, I really like joco's new supplement line as well his protein shakes and electrolytes.

Speaker 1:

I've been buying quite a few of those as well as reading his book. And so what's next for you? You've got future projects. What can you tell us about that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah. So with Hive we have some other flavors that are coming out. We have two new flavors coming that are coming out for the spring and summer, which are going to be very tropical focused flavors. And then something that I'm super excited about is I'm getting into the health and wellness side of things more of like a passion project that I've been focusing on for over a year, which is in the health and wellness side of things, with energy and hydration drinks that are all 100% sweet with honey, Hence this hat. It is called Strive. I've actually been drinking one during this podcast.

Speaker 2:

This is our Blood.

Speaker 3:

Orange Spark. Yeah, product placement right here. This is our Blood Orange Spark, which is our 100 milligrams of caffeine from green tea and guayusa, but 100% sweetened with honey, no synthetic sugars, so no sucralose or erythritol or anything like that, only organic wildflower honey. We're going to have four different flavors, so two energy drinks. We have our Blood, have four different flavors, so two energy drinks.

Speaker 3:

We have our blood orange spark, like I was saying, and then we have our tropical recharge, which is our other energy drink, which is a passion fruit, pineapple and a little bit of coconut and a little bit of guava as well, so very tropical. Throws you on a beach somewhere in Kauai probably. And then we have our two hydration, so a mango wave, which is mango and a little bit of pineapple. And then we have our two hydrations, so a mango wave, which is mango and a little bit of pineapple. And then we have our peach perfect, and our peach perfect is absolutely amazing. It almost tastes like a.

Speaker 3:

I don't know if you guys have Snapple over in the UK, but it's like the peach Snapple so super excited to be launching that. We're actually launching that on September 12th, so right around the corner, and for that, that launch, we're actually going to be in hawaii doing the ultimate kawaii trail run, so that's going to be kind of the whole launch for the brand um, but very excited about that and we'll be selling online and then hopefully in retailers across the us starting in 2025 awesome.

Speaker 1:

Um, what was that caffeine source? You said green tea, and what was the other one?

Speaker 3:

Guayusa what's?

Speaker 1:

that.

Speaker 3:

Guayusa root. So we were actually going to be using we were going to use 100% green tea, but we ended up wanting to use Guayusa, because Guayusa also helps. It's not jittery and it's very, very clean. It's all natural. And we were also going to use guriana gurana root, but gurana you can also give you jitters and also can give you diarrhea as well. So we stayed away from that. And it also gives it an interesting taste as well, because green tea can kind of bring that bittery taste, whereas why use is not as bitter. So we kind of cut it 50, 50 um, but it's only 100 milligrams. So lower caffeine uh dose rather than celsius, which is over 200. We're trying to keep it a little bit lower milligram because, again, everything in moderation sounds awesome and best of luck for all of that.

Speaker 2:

So one last question is where can our listeners learn more about you and Spirited Hive?

Speaker 3:

Totally Well. If you want to learn a little bit more about me and my journey, you can follow me on Instagram at Jack underscore SB. That's ESPY and we will be launching Strive on Instagram at Live Drink Strive starting September 12th. And then, if you want to know a little bit more about spirited hive, my beverage alcohol company, it is at spiritedhiveandcom. You can purchase and we sell to all 50 states fantastic amazing all right.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you very much, jack, and thank you listener and thanks and andy yeah thank you both.

Speaker 2:

No, really it was really, really cool and I appreciate you giving up so much of your time and it's inspiring to speak to someone so young who's done so much and get a little bit of insight as to how you've done it. So good on you and keep going.

Speaker 3:

Thank you so much. I appreciate you both.

Speaker 1:

Not welcome back because we're not doing the welcoming thing. So you are back, but we can't welcome you because apparently that's not what people want anymore. So andy not welcome back as well what a nice chat yeah, lovely chat. And what I loved about Jack is he really does validate my way of life. Yeah, I know, I thought he was a bit of a plant.

Speaker 2:

When he was like I'm just getting into breath, I was like, oh, here we go, here we go, yeah, and the cold water submersion and the sauna. And he's just looking at you and you're feeling very smug, aren't you over there, rich?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he's basically just a living testimony younger, more successful.

Speaker 2:

Yes, yeah, he was, he was excellent and interesting that he's out and get just the timing wise is pretty good, bearing in mind he's just um going with strive uh in the um more, perhaps more wellness uh alignment than the alcohol stuff. But also um really enjoyed the spirited hive conversation as well yeah, absolutely yeah.

Speaker 1:

so breaking the fourth wall? Uh, we did mention deadpool and they do a lot of that in uh, in the film. Uh, we are recording this mid-august and jack is releasing his new electrolyte company september, so this will come out just after his release, so you will be able to buy Strive when you are listening to this, aren't you lucky? What else do we need to tell the listener? What else did we like about that episode? Andy?

Speaker 2:

I really liked his references to other books. I think the Comfort Crisis is a really good one that I've read. I have not read Master your Code and also Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink I heard very good things on and it's reminded me to bump that up my reading list. It's obviously very dialed in to that kind of let's call it motivational way of thinking yeah, big time.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, Comfort Crisis is amazing. Jocko's book is amazing. I haven't read the other one either, but maybe that needs to go on the list.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I also enjoyed his kind of ownership over leadership. I think leadership is probably something that historically you kind of associate with being an older person, perhaps having tons and tons and tons of experience. But of course you can have leadership qualities at any age and he certainly does and certainly kind of um champions that.

Speaker 1:

so I think that was really interesting as well yeah, absolutely nice to have a leader on here, um, just with us to ship like wandering around the podcast world yeah, um no, he was great and uh, yeah, thanks, game for listening.

Speaker 2:

Where do they find us rich? Are we not allowed to do that either?

Speaker 1:

I think we're allowed to do that. Uh yeah, they find us on instagram at andy salmon, at the breath geek and richard l blakecom and the breath geekcom. It's the same website but two different names. I do pay extra for that domain name, probably not worth it, but hey, if I'm gonna pay for it, I'm gonna talk about it on the podcast well, thanks for listening everyone, until next time, bye.