Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness

The Hidden Links Between Sunlight, Stress, and Health: Dr. Torkil Færø on Optimizing Well-Being in a Modern World

• Richard & Andy • Episode 42

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Join us as Dr. Torkil Færø, a trailblazer in the world of holistic health and author of "The Pulse Cure," challenges everything you thought you knew about sun exposure, stress, and well-being. By questioning conventional wisdom, Dr. Torkil aligns with the biohacker movement and introduces us to the transformative power of pilgrimages for mental and physical health. Through his personal stories and experiences, Dr. Torkil offers a fresh perspective on diet, fasting, and the revolutionary role of wearables in modern health management.

Explore the profound insights into heart rate variability (HRV) and its critical role in understanding our stress responses. Discover how HRV serves as a window into our autonomic nervous system, revealing how lifestyle choices like diet, alcohol consumption, and even social interactions impact our well-being. With fascinating revelations about the benefits of pushing personal limits and the surprising comfort of social interactions, we delve into how tracking HRV can be a proactive tool for early disease detection and lifestyle optimization.

We also dive into the complexities of sun exposure and modern lifestyle choices, drawing on a UK biobank study to challenge the fear of melanoma from sun exposure. Dr. Torkil illuminates the benefits of sunlight beyond vitamin D, while questioning the safety of conventional sunscreens. As we navigate the evolving landscape of wellness, the conversation shifts towards the future of personalized health, where technology and AI empower us to shift from illness treatment to prevention. Join us for a thought-provoking journey into the future of health and well-being, where the power to optimize our health is at our fingertips.

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Guest: Dr. Torkil Færø
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dr.torkil/
Website: https://pulskuren.no/
Book: https://www.athenas.no/foredragsholdere/torkil-faeroe/?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaY1xyHtb8WHZ1O62w4auBG0rdNDhWg8gZri3l9pFPpJqVeU0uzw7D13_Hg_aem_gRBdFMKYe_TdOi575l7S0A
Book: https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-pulse-cure-torkil-f-r/1144296935;jsessionid=CB70CE257A39BA7491BC3A0A90974344.prodny_store02-atgap10
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HOSTS:
Richard Blake
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Facebook: @TheOptimisedU

Andy Esam
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Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
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Speaker 1:

Hello, listener, you are not going to believe what this insider has to reveal about the medical system around the world, isn't that right, andy?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, he wasn't exactly a supporter of my sunscreen usage, to say the least. I think his views on the sun and sun exposure were particularly against the grain of what you might expect for a doctor. Is that fair to say?

Speaker 1:

it is, although I I I'm gonna take credit for this one, andy, I have been banging the drum on the anti-sunscreen um myth, we'll call it so we, yeah, so we should say dr torkel. Dr torkel farrow is our guest today. He is the author of the pulse cure, a runaway hit book in norway and and around the world, and he's a medical doctor and he shares some of the things that you will not hear on regular, uh, regular tv mainstream advice. He really does support the sort of biohacker movement that a lot of uh, a lot of our guests have been championing and, uh, yeah, we get into all sorts of things that I think you are gonna love listener.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, when was the last time your doctor prescribed a pilgrimage, for example?

Speaker 1:

yes, probably a thousand years ago maybe possibly yeah, two thousand years ago.

Speaker 2:

Maybe Possibly yeah, Two thousand years ago. Likely none of our listeners then?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, probably not, unless they're real biohackers and they've been living for a thousand years. But yeah, what else do we get into, Andy? What else?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think the dietary stuff was very interesting, the fasting or fasting, mimicking diets, calorie intake, the type of food he has when he has it. I thought was really really interesting to hear as well. So we talk about what is the best device to track how you can use metrics like your heart rate variability to predict disease, catch disease early, as well as optimizing your health to get the most out of your fitness and your social situations things that you may not associate with health.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and I think the increase in wearing, um you know, variable wearables is, is, is, uh, is noticeable, but actually do you know what that is telling you?

Speaker 1:

absolutely all right. Well, enjoy, listener. This is going to be a great episode with a really top, top class guest, a very well credentialed, a proper, proper medical doctor with all sorts of experience and a really nice holistic view. So here we go. Hey everyone, are you ready to kick start your health journey and experience true transformation? Let me introduce you to a brand new program I'm thrilled to be a part of, called Momentum.

Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

Welcome to the show now. You've traveled over 80 countries and you've spoken about the importance of pilgrimage. Can you share why you believe pilgrimage is so important for both mental and physical health?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, pilgrimage is probably my favorite way of traveling. Actually. You come into a town on foot, you spend time the day out in nature, you spend the time alone. Often, even if you're walking with your family or a friend, you will walk naturally part of it alone in your own thoughts. When you're walking in the rhythm of your gait, then I find that my thoughts will flow more naturally and I will, you know, just be in a kind of creative mode, getting the distance from my normal life and kind of think very differently.

Speaker 3:

And I've done the pilgrimage to santiago de compostela twice and there's also one in norway.

Speaker 3:

I walked with a friend we made documentaries from both of these trips and I walked with my family to rome and even also in Palestine.

Speaker 3:

I walked for two weeks with my family from Nazareth to Bethlehem, and I'm not a Christian, so I do it maybe more for kind of spiritual reasons in general.

Speaker 3:

So I just find that it's and you will meet people that are out with the same aim. So I find so many interesting people there and it's such a good way when you want to change your life, to have this huge gap, that I think you need to walk for maybe a month or maybe even more, because the most important thing is the time in the middle there, when it's such a long time you know a week or 10 days since you started the trip and the end of it is still far away and then I find those two weeks there in the middle is essential. So many people ask me you know, can I do it? You know 10 days and then 10 days and so on and split it up, but okay, if you don't have any other choice, you could do that, but I would mainly go for a very long walk, you know. So that is some of my my thoughts about it I remember I went to do.

Speaker 1:

You know rupert sheldrake. He's a sort of oxford biologist and he also talks about other things like, um, well, the science delusion is his big book. But he did a big book on the sort of the common commonalities between all religions and one of them was pilgrimage. Pretty much every religion recommends or prescribes pilgrimage and yeah, there's a lot of science behind that. But I like how you said there uh, if you want to change your life, what do you think it is about pilgrimages that helps people change their lives?

Speaker 3:

I would say everything you know, because your physiology is probably at the top. You know so, and probably the pilgrimage is from ancient times that after you had been on such a trip you would come home invigorated and you would feel more energy and you will feel healthier and your mitochondria are better, your brain works better. So this is probably some of the reasons why pilgrimages are so nice, and it's also a spiritual journey particularly the one in Spain, I would think, because it's such a tradition also. So you're kind of walking in the footsteps of others. You can feel this energy from all the others that have been walking there for like a thousand years.

Speaker 2:

So I think there's this spiritual connection also can you give us a little bit of a clue as to what the insights you get in the middle of that journey, then? Is it just that you're so far from the beginning and so far from the end? That is, that's the feeling itself.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, so you're already into this rhythm. You are rid of the worst pain from walking and you have kind of got it into the rhythm and you can kind of it's like going up in a hot air balloon and seeing your life from a distance, kind of free from expectations that are used to back home and the obligations that you often have. So, of course, on my trips we were working, we were doing interviews with people, asking them why they did it. So that was an added thing for me to get the insight into all the other. You know, we interviewed probably two pilgrims pilgrims every day, you know and got the insight into why they did it. And we actually made that.

Speaker 3:

After the films that we made, you know, we doubled the amount of pilgrims pilgrims from norway to santiago and also kind of opened up the Norwegian one as well, that we found that we actually have a pilgrimage at our doorsteps that used to be quite huge in the Middle Ages and then disappeared, you know, with the Protestantism and all of this around the 15th century. So it's been nice to have a part in that. So before I wrote the pulse cure that these films that we made was kind of my contribution to the public health, you know, to keep people healthy in that way yeah, I think walking is such a key part of it.

Speaker 1:

Obviously people just think our walking just gets you from a to b. But there's the psychotherapyDR eye movement, reprocessing and depersonalization. And that was developed here in the hills of California where this therapist, francine Shapiro, just noticed when people are walking they have these lateral eye movements because they're looking at the ground, looking where to place their feet, and she found that her clients were more able to process, process difficult emotions and then she invented this emdr.

Speaker 3:

So I wonder if there's a kind of emdr pilgrimage is probably, and once you scan your surroundings like that is also healthy.

Speaker 3:

So everything we do that is reminiscent of the way we used to live in the ancient times, that is, is good for us for some reason, and probably the thing that you can scan your horizon and that you have the peripheral vision all over is probably also very healthy.

Speaker 3:

Of course also you're outside in the sun, and that is super important. We see more and more research from the UK also and from the Biobank study, that the sunshine is really important for us, and particularly the infrared. Half of the sunshine energy is from the infrared specter and when you're walking out in the forest and the woods, the infrared will be reflected from the trees towards you, you know. So it you kind of get a full dose on everything you can think of. You know you will get vitalized on such a trip. Also, you have the phytochemicals from the trees that we inhale and that works together with our immune defense, immune system, and so everything strengthens us. So it's no wonder that the people came back from a pilgrimage looking healthier and, of course, and inspired other people to do the same.

Speaker 1:

So yeah, there's obviously a lot of physical benefits and also that the mental stuff. I think, like you said, that change is so difficult to get someone to change when someone's stuck in a rut, whatever it is. You know they're obese and they want to stop their eating, but they can't. Or they're smoking and they want to stop smoking. The psychology of change is such um, you can go so deep into it and so many people have so many different pathways to it. Pilgrimage, I guess, is one, breath work would be another one, therapy would be another one.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, I still don't feel like anyone's really cracked it. Anyone's like anyone can say this is how you make someone change. But we have to go through these really elaborate processes like ayahuasca ceremonies or month long pilgrimages just to get our us to change our minds, get our us to change our minds. But moving on to your book, the pulse cure so we talked earlier. We've all got aura rings on here and I'm sure most of our listeners know what hrv is. But could you just start us off with some of the basics of the pulse cure, why it's important to track our pulse and what hrv is?

Speaker 3:

yeah, so hrv heart rate variability is the variation between heartbeats and it's quite beautiful, almost touching. For a doctor. You know that what we can read out of our heartbeats compared to our breath, that is what can tell us so much about the physiology, the stress balance in our systems. And the reason for that is that if we are in the parasympathetic mode of the autonomic nervous system, the restful mode, the recovery mode, then when we breathe in, the heart rate goes up a little bit because there's more oxygen in the lungs and the heart kind of pushes through a bit faster. And then when we breathe out and there's less oxygen in the lungs, the heart will relax a little bit, measured in milliseconds, and we can see that difference with our wearables. But if you are in the stress mode, then the heart will beat like a metronome, very steadily, like a clock, and the wearables will detect this difference from the deep restful state and until the very, very stressful state in the moment and also accumulated throughout the day and night. And we'll, you know, through artificial intelligence, through the millions of people using these devices now, they will give you an estimate of if your stress balance is sustainable or not, or if you will, because around 80% of the diseases that we treat as doctors these days have a root cause in too much stress. That will lead to a chronic low-grade inflammation. And the stress will come from many sources, not just mental stress that we would think of as stress, you know, in everyday language. But once you start tracking it, as you probably surely have seen, the diet will affect it, your physical fitness will affect it, alcohol and so many things.

Speaker 3:

Altitude if you go up to the mountains, you know it will affect the heart rate variability. So it's kind of a lot of the detective work to do, because the heart will respond to any demand and it will also respond to any de-stressing activity that you would do, like breath work or cold plunges or meditation or what have you. And so the heart is kind of the control center, taking in information and also giving information for us to be able to have this window into our physiology that is so super important. And because we don't really have this sense throughout history we never needed this sense for our own state. That wasn't the trouble state. That wasn't the trouble. You know. Our threats came from the outside, from animals, from enemies, from, you know, poisoned, contaminated food and such things. But it's only in the last decades, or last, you know, 40, 50 years, that our inner state, our inner stress, is what's threatening our health and longevity. So that is why this is kind of a substitute for the senses that we never needed to develop in history.

Speaker 2:

What might we be doing to stress our bodies that we might not even be aware of?

Speaker 3:

The things that I was not aware of. That was the stress of alcohol. I thought that alcohol would be a good way to wind down and be calm, to sleep well, and of course anybody with an aura ring can tell you that is really not true. I would never have imagined that food could stress, that something that I was eating would result in a difference in my heart rate. I would not imagine that fasting would be so effective to stay in the recovery mode. And also the cold. You know the temperature, that the body is so responsive to temperature, both in heat and in cold, that we can kind of hack our systems and also become stronger, more resilient through exposing ourselves to temperature changes. You know so we're. If you're too comfortable, we have this comfort crisis. You know so if you're too comfortable and not pushing ourselves, we just become weaker and less resilient and well will not tolerate as much loads on our systems yeah, the comfort crisis is one of my favourite books.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I love that one. In your book you talked about social situations as well, and it's sort of introversion and extroversion. Can you tell us more about how social situations affect your recovery?

Speaker 3:

Sure, yeah, I'm quite boring when it comes to social situations and what happens to my nervous system, because that's pretty stable.

Speaker 3:

But what has been very interesting because so many people contact me, you know this book has been just a huge bestseller in norway for two years now.

Speaker 3:

I'm still in this kind of tornado of of attention and I was on tv earlier today on live tv and and so so it's just been this huge success.

Speaker 3:

So I get so many messages from people and quite a few of them tell me that they used to think they're introverts, or they are introverts but they would think that being together with people was stressful and being alone was not stressful. But they can see on their Garmin watches this would be harder to see on your Oura Ring, though. They can see on their Garmin watches that being together with the people is actually not stressful. And then suddenly they become more social because they see that it really relaxes them. You know, shown in the heart rate, and that is probably because maybe they were stressed in a kind of mental way, but their heart rate that will relax once you are together with people will tell a different story. And then they allowed themselves to be more social and became happier, you know, as a consequence of that. So so that is very interesting, I find yeah, I found that surprisingly when I initially.

Speaker 1:

The first time I got this insight was when andy and I went on a trip to phoenix and we I shared a room with our friend ollie and even though we'd been like partying, my hrv and sleep were phenomenally high. And then I took another trip with ollie and his family. We went skiing. I was like, oh my god, my sleep and my hrv are phenomenally high whenever I'm around ollie. My hrv goes really high. Then I realized it wasn't ollie, it was just friends.

Speaker 3:

When I felt safe with friends, when I had friends over to stay, my sleep efficiency would go way up and I think it's just you know, having another body there helped me relax yeah, absolutely, and I was, and people contact me also that they can see that with certain colleagues they are stressed and with other ones they can do exactly the same job and they're not stressed. You know, and some of them have asked their bosses, you know, could you adjust the time I spend with these people and have gotten approval for that, and others have told me that, okay, there was no choice here. I cannot. I can think different ways and take it as a challenge to you know, to try to think about it and deal with it in a different way. That will make my nervous system relax more and as well as health optimization.

Speaker 1:

Is it possible? You are a general practitioner doctor I'm right in saying that disease detection. Can you use this kind of data to? To look for that, and what should people be looking for?

Speaker 3:

absolutely, you can see. You know the common infections you would easily see and usually one day or two before you feel the symptoms, you can see it on your device, whether that would be covid or urinary infection or pneumonia or whatever. You would also be able to see more clearly the effect of a surgery, for example, how long time it will last. You know the repair process. But, even more interestingly, you would also be able to see like cancer.

Speaker 3:

I know at least six, seven persons that has written to me and said that they came to a point where they could see their hrv dropping and they did everything right and they could not explain it.

Speaker 3:

You know, and went to their doctors and and sure enough, the it was a cancer that caused it, because a disease like cancer that the body really has to fight very hard against will be visible in the heart rate.

Speaker 3:

So so and you can google heart rate variability and cancer and different cancer forms and prognosis, risk of relapse and all these kind of things, and there's tons of research showing the connection to cancer and heart disease and all this parkinson's dementia and all these diseases that kills us really. So nine out of the 10 deadliest diseases in the US has an association with heart rate variability. So, absolutely, this is something that is very useful and the good thing is that people will have the control themselves. They don't have to wait until they have to go to the doctor. You know the patient's delay can be very long. You know that they will hope for the best and think that the symptoms are not so dangerous. But probably once you see it on your watch that okay, there's something going on here, then it's much easier to contact the doctor and of course, they can see it is more serious the conditions but also see that they are depleted of iron, of vitamin B12, vitamin D and such things also.

Speaker 3:

So it can also be used for that. That's fascinating that 9 out of 10 diseases come from it.

Speaker 2:

Number 10 is road crashes. Ah, yeah, hiv is going to help with that. Yeah, so I assume you're encouraging people to get ahead of these things and to monitor this stuff and actually, you know, as you say, make it, catch some of this stuff before they have to come and see you yeah, yeah, it becomes quite visible when you see the results.

Speaker 3:

If you if your hrv, you know, drops from, say that you have 60 in hV, I saw just today when I was on TV and the other girl could show me the HRV, it dropped from 120 until 70 over time, like in three months. It was not just a dip of one or two days and then I could. So that's a significant change. There's something wrong. You know that this is something it could be. She used to have an iron deficiency, it's probably that. But anyway, it's visible and you can go to your doctor and say that, okay, this is a problem.

Speaker 1:

We have to find out what's the cause of this and then with hrb, what have you found are the most effective things for improving it? How that would be.

Speaker 3:

That would be the combination of things. That would be to do something about your sleep, something about your diet, something about alcohol, making sure that you have some stress management strategy like breath work, cold plunges, meditation or reading. Reading is very good for many people, so I think it's to do a little bit on all of these different areas. Really, I'm not sure if there's one. If you're drinking a lot of alcohol, that would be the one then, but of course, most biohackers wouldn't do that.

Speaker 1:

Apart from Ben Greenfield.

Speaker 2:

He drinks every day, apparently, but he seems fine with it, yeah yeah, well in in our world, wellness world, we have a very many myths and misconceptions, so would you help us dispel a few of the common ones that you've come across?

Speaker 3:

yeah, if I can, that would be the first one, of course, would be alcohol, because when I studied medicine and this is then 26, 27 years ago we were advised to have two glasses of wine every day, and for women one glass of wine. That was the doctor's orders, you know, and the reason for that was that the people who lived the longest drank that amount of alcohol. But it wasn't the alcohol. We see when we go into the research now that it wasn't the alcohol, but it was that they were more social, they had better relationships. We as doctors would never have thought earlier that relationships had anything to do with heart disease or cancer or autoimmune diseases or anything of that. You know, you could understand that it had something to do with mental disease or suicide risk and such things, but what we find now is that being feeling lonely is as dangerous as smoking. Now there has been research showing that. So probably the reason why these people lived longer with two glasses of wine was not the wine in itself, but that they were more social. So of course now they would say that no alcohol will be benefit for you, for your health, so in itself. So that would be one thing I'm not sure it could be.

Speaker 3:

In general, the myths you know of the sun ah, the sunshine, that sun is bad for you. It's just a misunderstanding. I think that must be the the worst mistake from a collective medical society that we advise people to stay out of the sun as much as they can, and that has been because of the fear of melanoma. But from the big biobank study with 400,000 people in the UK now they have followed over, I think, 11 or 12 years, they can see that the ones with the most sun exposure will have 25% less chance of getting a heart disease and 15% less chance of getting cancer of all causes, and there is not an increased risk for dying of melanoma either. And so I think that the doctors and the society has just been focusing on the fear of getting melanoma and have forgotten to even ask for may there be some benefits from the sun? They haven't even thought about the concept.

Speaker 3:

They have understood that the sun gives us vitamin d, and then they have thought that, okay, stay out of the sun and take vitamin d. And then, of course, we have learned that you will not get the same benefits from taking vitamin d, because vitamin d is just a biomarker that you have got enough sunshine, sun exposure, because you have so many other benefits from the sun you get. We have storages of nitric oxide in our below our skin and the sunshine will release that and we have in our mitochondria. With the sunshine, with sun exposure, we will get more melatonin, that is an antioxidant, and with the sun exposure we will increase the effectiveness of cytochrome C oxidase, which will improve the ATP production in the mitochondria.

Speaker 3:

And it's really obvious, of course an organism developed under the sun in Africa that got pale from moving away from Africa, that got pale from moving away from africa, that such a creature should not be in the sun. It's such a logical mistake that is it's hard to believe. And and now we see the research you know there's so there's so much research now that shows this mistake. So so my next book that I will start within a month or so will be about the sun exposure.

Speaker 1:

I love that. I've been banging that drum for a while, often on deaf ears. Yeah, it's. Yes, I really appreciate you, with your medical background, speaking about this and speaking about, yeah, the sort of the silo mentality of medicine. How you know, skin doctors just think about skin but they don't think about heart disease and cancer. I need to be looking at all cause mortality, not just you know one individual thing, but saying that there are.

Speaker 1:

So in the biohackers world there's, there are still extremes in that you have someone like jack cruz. I don't know if you know him, but he's like he's called like mitochondria. He's all about the sun for mitochondria, but he's like never wear sunscreen, be in the sun 12 hours a day, and if you don't, you know, you know you're going to be absolutely miserable. And then you have brian johnson. Do you know brian johnson? Yeah, I met him the other week. He's very pale. He won't go out in the sun. He checks on his phone the uv levels before he goes outside. He's like our uv is too high, can't, can't go there. So with with jack cruz, who looks quite old, his skin looks quite damaged what are your actual like recommendations for sun exposure? Is there too much? Is there too little. Should we ever wear sunscreen?

Speaker 3:

I think that we can go back to what the ancients did. They would be in the shade in the middle of the day, so with the most uv exposure. They would stay in the shade in the middle of the day, so with the most UV exposure. They would stay in the shade waiting for the sun to go a little bit down and then go hunting or foraging or whatever. But I think that probably an hour or two would be enough. Just like in many other things, that a little bit takes you almost there. You know that might well be that 12 hours would be optimal. You know what did they do? Of course they were outside and they had nowhere to go.

Speaker 3:

I don't know how long we've had houses or stayed inside the caves, but I would believe that anyone from the cave I recently visited the cave in croatia and you would believe that anyone from the cave. I recently visited a cave in Croatia and you would believe that you wouldn't want to stay inside your cave if there's sunshine outside. You know why would you? You would have to be there 12 hours every day when it's dark anyway, so you would be out in the sun for 12 hours, so probably that would be even the best amount of sunshine you know. So that's probable. So staying outside of the sun, that's obviously not a good thing, and I don't think sunscreen would be wise to use either. So it's all of this different.

Speaker 3:

The contents of the sunscreen you know that. You know a lot of women use, you know, for hormone replacement. You just spray your skin twice and then your hormones are okay. So it it shows you how permeable your skin is and how much anything that you put on your skin can affect your system. So, of course, when we start using sunscreen on kids you know from top to toe and when they go out, then then we're losing something of that. So I don't think that's very smart. I think it's better to have them exposed for the sun and get their tan in a natural way, so that you will avoid getting a sunburn just by exposing yourself gradually to the sun and use the, the melanin in your skin, as a natural sunscreen. That's that's. I cannot imagine that that this would not be the best option what do you think about edible sunscreens?

Speaker 1:

my friend george, we just went on a hike and and he ate his sunscreen and it had a load of ingredients like astaxanthin, vitamin C and then this other Peruvian herbal extract that I'd never heard of. But then I also looked into it and a lot of the government are trying to ban these edible sunscreens, demand they be taken off the shelf here in California. But have you come across them? Do you think they're any use? I don't know.

Speaker 2:

I don't know why are they trying to?

Speaker 1:

ban them, maybe because they don't work, or if you get into conspiracy theories, because they want you to have cancer so that you can go spend money on cancer treatments. I don't believe that, but I'm sure someone will be thinking it I'd like to go back to something you said earlier.

Speaker 2:

If it's right, tokyo you mentioned in terms of the alcohol myth and the actual reason why people are living longer as relationships and social interactions. Are there any trends that you're seeing that are quite worrying in the wake of the pandemic, where people are maybe not socializing as much and maybe we've become a bit too much at home and behind a screen?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it probably aggravated an already present problem, that people are more staying to themselves. They are more dependent on screens. We get our dopamine kicks from being on the screens and gaming, and all the boys are gaming, you know, and everybody's checking social media instead of meeting each other. And, of course, during the pandemic, everything was even worse. So I'm not sure if there was any other way, you know, than to do that it's, you know, it's the age-old strategy for what to do when the pandemic hits you must isolate and otherwise you die, you know so. So, as the bodies were piling up outside the, the hospitals, you know, it's, I'm not sure what else they were to do, so so, but, but it seems to be a rise in anxiety and depression and loneliness, and the curves seems to have gotten higher, you know, after the pandemic certainly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, well, over here in the us northern european countries like norway and sweden, they're sort of mythologized. Everyone just thinks that well, you know, if you're slightly left of center, everyone just thinks we should be like norway and sweden. And I know that it's, you know, sort of seeing things with rose tinted glasses. But the thing that my sister-in-law lives in norway she's just moved there recently but one of the things I kind of understand about norwegian people is they're very passionate about the environment. They get outdoors a lot and norway has a very it's seventh in the world for happiness. So I'm wondering what? What is the secrets to norwegian happiness? Is it just being outside?

Speaker 3:

yeah, it's probably being more outside, but it's probably also it's a well-run democracy. The systems work. Uh, I think that has a lot to do with it, and I think so. It's a small society, not much trouble, so I think it must be these things. And there's an outdoor slice, but that's probably just one third of the population I would think that will regularly go out and be active in nature.

Speaker 1:

Okay, and going back to fitness, one of the things I always notice is people just hear the advice they want to hear. So if there's someone who exercises fanatically seven days a week, they just hear the the advice that exercise is good. And then there's the person who maybe, you know, is overweight, out of shape and lies on the couch all day. They just hear you need to rest. Rest is really important. So, with that myth that more exercise is better, how do you, you know, how do you use the technology and the pulse cure to to get people on the right track?

Speaker 3:

yeah, the good thing about the garmin watches then, in particular, that of course they are developed for fitness. You know, for athletes that is that they can give you a recovery time. So whenever I go out for a run or do some exercise or a hike or whatever, it will give me the recovery time afterwards and in that I can see that okay, I try to spend as much energy that I will give maybe 24 hours of recovery time that I don't put more strain on my system than I can recover from until the next day. So that is a way to be able to put not too much load on your system. Because I see many people health enthusiasts. They are exercising way too hard, too long, too intense. We're not made for that either. When we put these wearables on hunter-gatherers that live today, we see that they have two to three hours of moderate activity with some burst in between of using more force, but in general they're not really vigorous activity.

Speaker 3:

So if you do, I think there's kind of a sweet spot of maybe probably around three or four hours a week of moderate exercise and that is healthy for longevity and then to get a better VO2 max, then you would have to push even further, to push even further. But from the 50 percentile of VO2 max and upwards it's not so much difference in mortality or longevity and that is a huge step. You have to exercise really hard to get from the 50, from the middle and then up to the 10% best. That would demand a lot of exercise and so I don't think that would be worth it. But the first problem is that if you are among the 25% with the lowest VO2 max, those are the ones that have a problem.

Speaker 3:

So if you just do enough to stay kind of in the middle, you have done enough for the health reason. Of course you will not win the marathon or the contest, but for your health is better. Because I'm rarely surprised by the longevity of athletes and former athletes when you see the obituaries they seem to hardly reach the average age. I'm more often a lot more surprised by how early they die than how late they die. I'm always conscious about that when I see athletes when they die can we talk a bit about practical tips for diet?

Speaker 2:

we've had a few dietary experts on the show. Are there any things we need to kind of be mindful of in the modern world?

Speaker 3:

yeah, what we see. We see and what we can track on our garments is that the usual advice of intermittent fasting and eating real food, not processed food, will also reward you with better heart rate variability. So having a restricted feeding window, eating window of maybe eight or I would say six to ten hours I use six hours, so six to ten hours would most people would benefit from that measured both in symptoms and in heart rate variability and doing also fasting and fasting mimicking diets, it will also give you a better heart rate variability. So I can see that.

Speaker 3:

You know garmin has a body battery system that you can see how, if you go up to maybe 80 or 90 during the night, you have kind of charge your physiological battery and you will see during the day it will go down to maybe 20 or, if you're very stressed, down to five. But when I I'm on a fasting mimicking diet it's totally flat, it the body battery stays at the same level as a and I'm in the parasympathetic mode the whole day. So and that is very motivating because you're a bit hungry, but when you see the result, the kind of reward for it, it's so much more motivating to do those tough choices you know to eat the right food and you would also see that when you eat you know chocolate, candy crisps and these kind of things that even if you are relaxing and watching Netflix in the sofa, your stress level will be high. So you have probably seen that on your Oura Rings as well, right?

Speaker 1:

yeah for sure. Yeah well, especially when I overeat, I think that's you know, if I eat a big portion, that definitely affects my sleep yeah, yeah, the late night meals.

Speaker 3:

You know that is something most people once they start tracking, they cut down on alcohol and they cut down on late meals or adjust their meals to an earlier time. Yeah, absolutely, and, and a lot of people will find, if you have a food intolerance, you will see that your heart rate will go up. So for me, my, if I eat chili then, then my heart rate will be super high and I'll be exhausted the day after, so, so, so it's individual also there's a lot of fasting, mimicking diets out there.

Speaker 1:

How do you do yours?

Speaker 3:

oh, there's a norwegian book on the fasting mimicking diet, inspired by walter longo. You know his system, so I've used that one. So what does that look like?

Speaker 3:

oh this is. I just follow that. It's just. You know, it's salads, nuts. I'm not a good cook, I wouldn't know what it is. I usually go to these retreats and I get the food served and it's good. So so, uh, the main point is probably to keep keep the proteins low and then to have maybe 700 calories a day, and that is supposed to give the same autophagy as fasting. You, you know water fasting, so of course, autophagy is a new concept. We did not learn that in medical school, but it's, of course, a smart thing that our body has developed that instead of, and also why all religions have fasting. You know, if all religions have a certain thing in common, it is probably good, and that is what we find then that if you are fasting, then your body starts recycling the worst senescent zombie cells and use that for to build new cells, and those zombie cells are the ones that are in on the verge of becoming cancerous, and so on. So it's quite important yeah, prolon is the.

Speaker 1:

That's the main one. Yeah, I keep meaning to do that. I just haven't built up the steam enough for it what is that?

Speaker 1:

yeah, it's a kind of self done fasting, mimicking diet where you just you buy a box and it's just full of like nuts and and things like that are about I think it's about 500 calories a day and you do that for five days. I think they've got some soups and things and it's just done for you and yeah, it's quite simple. It's pretty expensive for the amount of food you're getting. You could certainly do it cheaper yourself, but yeah, it's the fact that they've got you guiding throughout interesting so I'm looking ahead.

Speaker 3:

What do you see as the future of uh well, of wellness and personalized health yeah, I think at least, that people will use these devices a lot more that people, because the pulse cure is actually still now, to my knowledge, the only guidebook on how to use the wearables in combination with lifestyle strategies. If you know some books that will have this subject, then please tell me. Or any of the listeners you know, contact me and tell me, because I would love to read that and learn. But so, but to mine the editor's knowledge and I try to check it on the Amazon to see if there's any new books. So I don't think that even the biohackers or even the people in general are aware of how much they can get out of their watches or get out of their heart rate variability.

Speaker 3:

And, of course, when it's more and more artificial intelligence involved that can combine the knowledge of what you're eating, what you're doing.

Speaker 3:

You know we are using artificial intelligence for like everything else. Now we need to use it for our own physiology and just the heart rate and maybe blood sugar will come as well, but just the heart rate, the breath, the temperature you can tell so much about. You have kind of 90 percent of the answers you need already there, so, and the products are already here. So the future is here, you know. We just need to use it, you know, so to speak. So so I think the thing is to make people aware of that, that the future is here, and to be able to use this technology to for their benefits. Yeah, and with the artificial intelligence, I think, when more of that comes in because you know there are artificial intelligence that you can take a picture of your food and it will register what you have eaten, and once you can take that into your heart rate variability, suddenly it can tell you that okay, when you eat this, and this will be the result. So, for example, that's very clever.

Speaker 1:

And, yeah, we've mentioned the aura ring, but you've also mentioned the garmin. So what's your favorite uh device? But you've also mentioned the Garmin, so what's?

Speaker 3:

your favorite device? Yeah, I've tried many different devices. I've had almost six devices at the same time at times. So I started out using the ECG monitor for two years, before I was even aware of that. You had the same system in the wearables, in the Garmin, and then I could see. I've used the Garmin watches and used Polar and Apple Watch. I used the Whoop band, oura Ring and I used the different things, but Garmin is by far the best, and it's not because of Garmin in itself, but they have bought the Finnish company Firstbit Analytics and they have more than 20 years of experience with physiological measurements. So it's their system that really is the difference. They make and present it in a very understandable way so that you can get the most out of the data that you get from the watches. I think so.

Speaker 3:

Now, that is, of course, if you want to micromanage, if you want to see exactly how much stress a podcast is or a or whatever that could stress you, or a fight with your wife, you know, or whatever. You will see, because with the aura ring, you just get the result in the morning. So it's like you go into the supermarket and do a big shopping and you only get the total, you don't get the items in itself. So so the Garmin watch is what will give you the different items. You understand that this costs so much and the cold punch you know gave you so much, and so on. So, yeah, and Garmin watches are also and I'm not no affiliations, no, no interest in economical anyway. So, and they have also the cheapest ones. So even with the Vivo smart 5 that you probably cost you, you know, $120,. You get 80% of the information out of that, so it's also very accessible for people. And of course, you have the price range you know, all the way to the top, with added benefits on each kind of step along the way.

Speaker 3:

So, and if you have an Apple Watch, which many people have, then if you have the app that is called Athletic, that's a quite good one.

Speaker 3:

So at least the best one I've seen so far for the Apple Watch, it's the combination between Athlete and Analytic, the Athletic app. And other than that, I think what is so good is that there's kind of the big game change is that we take the power from the doctors and the healthcare system and put it into your own hands, and also that we take the shift into waiting until you get sick and then having a way to avoid getting sick. So I think these two changes are very important, and also that there is money in keeping you healthy, because the problem in the healthcare system is that there's too much money in sick people. A system that is the solution to a problem will maintain the problem that it is the solution to you know. So it's this system and all the money involved in sick people that is the problem, and now there's money in keeping people healthy, and that is quite promising. I think. I'm not sure if you see it the same way I do.

Speaker 1:

I'm very happy to hear someone on the inside you know a doctor was saying that because generally it's people from the outside criticizing doctors in the medical system and there's, I know there's quite a lot of like you feel like gatekeeping, like when I I've seen doctors and you know I've told them about, told them about the holistic things I would be doing for my health, they're a bit like, oh no, you don't want to be doing that, you don't want to be doing saunas or ice baths or breath work. Just leave it to me, keep paying me and I'll fix all your problems. But certainly in the US the medical model is different to the UK where there's, you know, a supposedly collapsing national health care system and there's no money for it. So I can see in the uk there would be a lot more appetite for preventative medicine, whereas here in the us it's just all about yeah, it's all about the big pharmaceutical companies, it seems yeah, and everything.

Speaker 3:

You know everything in the pulse cure in my book is free. So you know sunshine, know sunshine. You know getting out in nature. Fasting is even cheaper. Of course, cold is even cheaper, at least in the UK. But in the US, you know, you have to turn on your air con so it might be expensive. And drinking water instead of alcohol and all of these things, you know it's sunshine. Activity, moving pilgrimages, it's all free. And that is also the problem because there's no money involved, there's no commercial pressure behind it. So it's only after you get sick that there's money involved here. So that's good because it's accessible to everybody. Even if you don't have any money, you can do the life choices that, according to a big American study of 700 000 people, can give you 24 years more lifetime. So it's a it's not just a couple of years, it's a lot of years.

Speaker 1:

So it's yeah, that's a really useful study because yeah. Some people say, oh, I'm gonna spend my life, you know 10, 10 years in the hyperbaric chamber and the sauna to get five years back, it's like, well, you may as well just have those 10 years living your life. But when you say actually it can be up to 24 years, that really makes it sound worth it.

Speaker 2:

You've sort of preempted our final question there, torquil, because we were going to ask you for some practical steps from the Pulse Cure to help people with their journey towards a better health, but yeah, you preempted that one. Towards a better health, better health but um, yeah, you preempted that one, so, um, we're gonna ask you, I'm just gonna signpost everything, but where can we find you?

Speaker 3:

oh, you can. Um, yeah, my book you can find uh kind of anywhere. It's on a, it's a normal book. It's on amazon or barnes and nobles and search and it's also an audible. They can download and send ebook if you use the kindle. And I also have a website called thepulsurecom where you can see a video lecture that I have on how to use the garmin watches then and see the graphs and you can understand it. And I'm on instagram, dr torkel, dr torkel on instagram, so I try to put out content there Also in English. Of course, there's a lot of Norwegian there, but I try to translate it and subtitle it into English and so it's also useful for English speaking people.

Speaker 1:

Excellent. Well, thank you very much, Torkel. This has been fascinating. I'm sure our listeners will love this and hopefully they'll buy the book. Yeah, hope so.

Speaker 3:

Tom, thank you very much for your time cheers all right, welcome back listener.

Speaker 1:

We hope you enjoyed that. Any, what are you going to take away from this episode?

Speaker 2:

well, first and foremost, what a calming voice of reason and Richard Blake, I think my main one is that a lot of this is free and that a lot of this focuses on preemptive measures before health problems occur. So sunshine is free, sleep is free, getting out in nature is free, and it's not often you hear a doctor who's trying to get ahead of some of this stuff um so passionately and calmly. So, yeah, it's widely available.

Speaker 1:

get out and do it yeah, and I love the fact that he's a doctor and he's not really advocating for the medical system. He's, you know, he's trying to get people to live happy, healthy lives without getting them dependent on you know, five different medications and and all those things.

Speaker 2:

I feel like that's such a a refreshing take and I think that that getting ahead of it is actually absolutely essential, as you said. You said quite an unusually good point about the um nhs in terms of we have a we have a system that's creaking in this country, and so anything that can help you get on top of your own health early enough is surely a good thing.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, absolutely it is. I think the US dominates the wellness industry and that the lens they see through things through is well. The medical system just wants more and more of our money, whereas the rest of the world it's all taxpayers paying for the sickest people, and that lens is well. We need more preventative care. So it is surprising to me that the UK doesn't push more preventative care. I know that it was a big step for them to prescribe meditation on the NHS, which is amazing, but yeah, I think they should be doing more evidence-based things.

Speaker 2:

Hopefully we'll get breath work in there someday, that's my big goal, yeah, and if you are a doctor listening or you know any doctors listening, then, um, perhaps get them to start banging this drum as well, because the research backs it up and it's really refreshing to see big time all right.

Speaker 1:

Well, thank you listener. Thank you andy. Where do they find us?

Speaker 2:

good question on instagram at andy esam at the breath geek uh, richard uh l blakecom and all good and bad postcard podcast postcards postcards and we'll send you a postcard all good and bad.

Speaker 1:

Postcards and podcast hosting sites yes, and another reminder that I am now free to work not free, you have to pay me, but I'm available to work, after four years, in the dusty halls of academia, out, ready to breathe you back into full wherever you need to be. Full health. Yes, breathwork sessions for functional breathing and conscious connected breathing online are now available do you reckon?

Speaker 2:

richardelbloodcom do you reckon that's the point where people start turning off? When you say I'm available to work, you can always hear people turning off yeah, people aren't listening.

Speaker 1:

Now we could just say whatever we want, insult whoever we want.

Speaker 2:

Thanks for listening. If you are still listening, appreciate it. Yeah, you're the best. Thank you, dr.

Speaker 1:

Talkill yes, thank you, dr Talkill. Thank you, andy, thank you listener.