Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
Welcome to Laughing Through the Pain: Navigating Wellness. A podcast about the wellness industry, breathwork, bio-hacking, exercise, and mental health. Designed to help regular people and practitioners find their way through the confusing, conflicting, and often untrustworthy world of wellness. While at the same time trying to make you laugh. Hosted by Richard and Andy. Richard Blake, AKA the Breath Geek, is a PhD psychologist, breathworker, bio-hacker, and amateur CrossFit athlete. Andy, aka the the funny one, has his bachelor's in psychology and helps to avoid the curse of knowledge by asking the questions the experts don’t think to answer. They want to help you avoid making the same mistakes they made while trying to make their way through all things wellness - subscribe and like the podcast now.
Laughing Through The Pain: Navigating Wellness
Momentum, Milestones, and Moving On: The End of an Era for Laughing Through the Pain
Ever found yourself grappling with imposter syndrome while striving to balance expertise and humility? You're not alone. Join us as we wrap up our wellness podcast series, sharing the heartfelt highs and reflective lows of our journey. From the very first spark of an idea to achieving a milestone of 44 episodes, we've faced challenges, embraced growth, and forged connections with incredible guests who have expanded our understanding of wellness in mind, body, and spirit. This episode is a celebration of shared accomplishments, the joy of collaboration, and a look forward to exciting new opportunities on the horizon.
Discover the evolving world of breathwork as we discuss our roles in education, the significance of trauma awareness, and the strides being made in raising training standards. Reflecting on the art of podcasting, we'll share insights on engaging respectfully yet critically with guests, balancing candid discourse while maintaining integrity. As we transition to new endeavors like the Momentum program, co-hosting Runga Radio, and participating in the Health Optimization Summit, we express deep gratitude for the community that has supported us. Join us for this final chapter, filled with stories, insights, and a heartfelt thank you to all who have been part of our transformative journey.
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Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to a very special episode of Laughing Through the Pain Navigating Wellness Special, because it's the last one we're ever going to do, isn't it?
Speaker 1:Yes, it is. This is our closing episode and it's it's emotional. You know I've handy and I've been sharing emotional tears.
Speaker 2:Uh, no, not really it's been a little bit emotional, but the tears were just me putting in some eye drops yeah, I think I've um had like a lot to reflect on the last week about what our aims were setting out and whether we've kind of achieved those, and I really genuinely believe that we have. In terms of meeting some incredible people doing great work, I've learned so much. I think we've covered head to toe rich. Do you know what I mean? Like from vivo, barefoot, all the way up. We've had chiropractors with the holistic coaches all the way up to um the psyche. I feel like we've really covered it all. And, yeah, dietitians dietitians?
Speaker 1:yes, it is. The attempt was make it a holistic podcast, holistic understanding to include mind, body and spirit and yes, I think our goals to start this out when we did start at the beginning of the year was well, let's get past 20 episodes. That was definitely uh, we wanted to be in the top 90 I think only 10 of podcasts get to 20 episodes and then only like 10 of those get to. I don't know another 20.
Speaker 2:So this will be our 44th episode, so we've nailed it yeah, I think, no, I think, and from my point of view, that we had probably slightly different um aims coming in, that I'm very much a novice. I wanted to learn and I wanted to kind of explore other avenues to improve health. I suppose, to put it succinctly, and I think you're gonna, you know you, you want to become a and already are a voice in wellness, and I love regeneration voice for generally, just like any other, just like any else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I like the fact that those kind of work concurrently during the podcast in terms of they're not like mutually exclusive. We were able to kind of achieve our respective aims and we'll come on to it a bit later, but I think you're going to push on in this space massively and I'll look back and be the guy who launched you In a way, yes, launched me into the stratosphere, not the PhD, it's just hanging out with me, yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean definitely. Yeah, it's a factor. Yeah, I couldn't have done this without you. Yeah, I wanted to start something for a long time start a podcast. You know, people would say you know, when are you going to do your podcast, when are you going to start doing stuff, and I just never felt I could do it on my own. So I'm very grateful for your support, andy um, throughout this and, yeah, I really don't think I would have been able to done 44 episodes, or even one episode, without you.
Speaker 2:No, it's been great and I think at the start I felt definitely like that imposter syndrome you know of like shit, what do I know about wellness? But then I think I kind of grew into it and felt more like well, actually, you know, sometimes you're not going to be an expert on a topic, and certainly some of our listeners aren't going to be, and there's some sort of certainly some of our guests weren't we're not going to name names, but I think like there's a certain like there's a it's very listen.
Speaker 2:I think it's very easy to listen to someone who's actually just humble and you know there's a certain humility about yeah, I don't know the answer to that. Why would I know the answer to that, you know? Why would I understand which part of the brain is stimulated when this particular thing happens? I'm a chartered savannah, live in london, you know.
Speaker 2:So I think it's been um yeah, it's been really, it's really fascinating yeah, you're definitely the most humble part of the show if there was an award for humility we should have done an end of season award of wars, and the humility award goes to wow the award for thinking he's right in every conversation goes to andy, you wish, but yeah, I think we should look over a couple of highlights, I mean any episodes that particularly stand out for you. If someone yeah, I'd like to listen to your podcast. Which episode should I listen to? What would you kind of ease them in with?
Speaker 1:well, I'm going to give a shout out to um one of my uh well, two, two of my friends really james dowler, one of our first guests, big time breath worker and now you know, union expert, james dowler. That definitely got us a lot of traction. He said some nice controversial things about the breathwork being a wild west and that generated a lot of eyes with Instagram and I know he's a listener. I hope he's listening now to see how we're grateful for his input there. What did you think about, james?
Speaker 2:Yeah, really amazing, and it was. I think he was obviously our first guest, so it's a bit of an unknown. I had actually met him before, though I doubt he would remember. I think I went to one of his breathwork sessions, but yeah, it's quite a. It was an unknown in terms of the dynamic, wasn't it? I mean, you know him particularly well, but he doesn't know me. How are we going to gel? What are we going to talk about? And also, we asked him yeah, we asked him to be a bit controversial and put his neck on the line for us and generate some conversations out of that, and he was definitely very obliging and I'm not surprised he's got such a big following.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's not. Only was he just controversial for the sake of being controversial. I think that was a part of this movement in breathwork to mature the industry, to regulate the industry. There are lots of conversations now of the ukba uk breathwork association. There's talk of other associations coming in in local levels, like the australian breathwork association, uh, trying to deal with this problem of the breathwork wild west and james was one of the first people to just call that out publicly and, uh, it's leading to positive action well, I also wanted to shout out ryan park funnily enough.
Speaker 2:I've heard his name come up again because I am an ambassador for a um suicide charity and they did a webinar with him not long ago and I think he's becoming a real voice in men's mental health and what an important time to be that and again sticking his neck out on the line a little bit in terms of poo-pooing some of the kind of common theories around, particularly testosterone, and not afraid to kind of say, hey, look at these studies, maybe we've got this wrong and maybe we need to kind of have a rethink. And yeah, again, I'm not surprised he's getting so much traction because he's just so genuine and so knowledgeable and authentic and I really enjoyed chatting to him, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, he invited me to this medication in mental health summit that was put on by our other guest, jennyny rainer, and I spoke at that. The week before last. I was followed by, um, uh, what's his name? The head of the mankind project. So I was warming up for him, sir, sir, something, I've forgotten his name, but, yeah, he gave me a great platform to share about breath work and I was very flattered to be a part of that.
Speaker 1:Medication and men's mental health. It was the whole day was really about men's mental health and he shared in his talk, like when he first started talking about his not his research, but his scouring of the research around testosterone and men's mental health. He gave a talk somewhere and a psychologist, a psychotherapist, like, came up to him afterwards like you have no business talking about mental health, you don't know what you're talking about. You're just, you know, just just a guy, and this woman was just effectively gatekeeping. You know she didn't want someone who to rock the boat, and this is a big problem with psychotherapy is that, yeah, people are threatened by any new ideas, and I have just read one of the best books I've read in a while, called bad therapy, by abigail shreer. I think this is a must read for anyone in the therapeutic realm, or any teacher, anyone who deals with children. But it is all about how well. I cite it in my ph PhD conclusion as more people get into therapy, mental health gets worse.
Speaker 1:That's not the case with cancer and heart disease treatments. When people get treated for cancer and heart disease, they recover. But as more and more people are going to therapy, they're getting worse. And I think a lot of that is because a lot of people who go into therapy don't need therapy. They just need, you know, some of the things that ryan prescribes. You know exercise, community time and nature, those types of things. And just focusing on people's emotions when they're anxious actually dysregulates them and turns them into little narcissists. And obviously that's in the extreme case. A lot of people do have better outcomes in therapy. But this is another problem with therapy. It's like we don't really measure the outcomes that much. We just go okay, this person's done six sessions of therapy. Are they better? No, they'll keep doing therapy, are they? Then they stop doing therapy and then you know, no one really follows up with him. It's like, well, did we, did we heal your issue? Did you cure that thing. So yeah, um ryan park is doing good stuff yeah, well, I think.
Speaker 2:Going back to the therapy point, I think, being frank, when I came into the um the you know, starting this podcast, I thought I'll keep an open mind about therapy. But even if you are prepared to say that therapy is 100 effective all the time, we're not at that stage where we can offer everyone therapy. So even if that's the best case scenario, you still need alternatives. Hence needing people doing great work in wellness and mental health and you mentioned Jenny Rainer there as well. I mean that just kind of touched in me the common theme of people being so brave and confronting some of their issues and some of their past traumas just unbelievable strength to sort of not only revisit that but try and grow something out of that is just mind-blowing. And so many of our guests had been through similar things and been through their own struggles and out of those struggles, were prepared to dedicate their lives to bettering themselves and bettering their communities. I just think that is absolutely wonderful and quite much talking about it. But yeah, that's how I feel.
Speaker 1:Totes of mosh, yeah and and uh other guests I'm thinking of, or the others two I particularly want to mention um, and it kind of leads on to what's next for us.
Speaker 1:So alan dolan, the breath guru oof brilliant big heavy hitter on, uh, on the roster, uh. So alan is obviously a breath worker and alan is a teacher trainer. That is, uh, his. His main thing is he's been in the industry for a long time now and he's been teaching breathwork in his particular style for the last few years and he and my wife, natalia, trainee psychotherapist and breathworker Another guest, natalia Blake Gorgeous yeah, voice of a generation. Yeah, she and he are upgrading their training. So this is part of what James Dowler said and Jamie Clements have said Jamie Clements, another guest of ours.
Speaker 1:The breathwork industry needs to raise its standards and one of those standards is teacher training. End teacher training, how it's just not enough. How people say you know, breath workers start talking about trauma when they have no idea what trauma is and how to regulate it, and how it's not necessarily the root cause of absolutely everything. So Alan's training was already one of the more robust and thorough, but it's being improved. It's going from six months to 12 months, including some supervision. That's something we've learned from the psychotherapy institutions is that you need to supervise your graduates because, yeah, they are raw Even after their training. They still need supervision.
Speaker 1:And Alan is looking to incorporate some of the science. And that's where I come in with my PhD. I'll be teaching the science of breathwork, of conscious, connected breathwork and more of the science. And that's where I come in with my phd. I'll be teaching the science of breath work, of conscious, connected breath work, and more of the physiology, more of the functional breathing. You know what is oxygen perfusion, what is the boar effect, those types of things I'm not going to tell you now because you just do the course yeah, well, that's the other interesting thing.
Speaker 2:I was thinking about the impact and getting messages from other people and saying you know what they like about our podcast and what they've learned, and another of our guests, which I won't mention, is actually going to be doing that, training from alan dolan. So I like how this kind of community kind of just interweaves and, um, yeah, I thought it's a really nice outcome that you will be effectively teaching another one of our guests who, to be honest, has not got a lot to do with breath work but just was really compelled by, um, both your work and alan's work, to, uh, yeah, sign up to a what is quite a big commitment. Um, yeah, me five.
Speaker 1:So it is yeah, and what I would say is, not everyone who signs up to alan's training wants to go on and be a full-time breath worker. And this is why alan's training, I think, is so good is because he only takes on a small handful of people at a time. It's more of a mentorship. He takes on between four and six people at a time, whereas you go to other breathwork training schools and maybe you have no contact with the founder. You know, like there are online trainings where you're just, you know, just learning stuff from an old video, or you go and there's like 60 participants there and, yeah, maybe you get a bit of input from from the founder, but not, they're not really developing people.
Speaker 1:And this is a big thing. Why breathwork is such a wild west is because it's so easy to become a breath worker. It's like there's no vetting, there's no checks and balances, there's no filtering out of the people that just maybe they don't have the integrity, maybe they don't have the subtleties to work with people in these like extreme emotional states. Alan really is developing people, he's mentoring people and it's like you know, it's like a year-long mentorship and like self-development program, which I think is wonderful yeah, I mean, um, I think you're absolutely right.
Speaker 2:I wanted to also ask you. I mean, maybe I'll go first but like in terms of challenges of doing the podcast and maybe like, yeah, reflections of maybe some of the stuff that wasn't so easy and I'll go first. But basically I was told that we need to be harder on the guests and we need to challenge them more. I think and I think you mentioned in an earlier episode that a lot of podcast hosts get accused of being, you know, overly nice or overly easy on guests.
Speaker 2:But I think it's really difficult to ask someone for their time and sometimes, you know it's it's a big ask, and sometimes we haven't met them. And then they come on the, on our show, and then we're like unnecessarily critical of them, and the second part of that is often they're complete experts in their field. So who am I to challenge someone who's giving me a fact on, let's say, I don't know, sleep or hypnosis? I don't. You know, I'm not the person to challenge them and I think if you feel like something that was said was, you know it doesn't sit well with you, that's a great platform for for you to go and do your own research. Yeah, I don't think we're endorsing anyone by having them on to give their views yeah, it's a real fine balance.
Speaker 1:There is that term civility porn, where podcasters and their guests are just like just showing off how civil they can be about their arguments. But we didn't really do too many arguments and I think one of the lessons we did learn was like if we're going to have someone on and we already know we want to challenge them, we send them those challenging things and we ask permission can we challenge you on this? Can we have a bit of a debate? And everyone said yes. Everyone was like yeah, I'm definitely up for debating that, I'm definitely up for being challenged.
Speaker 2:But I think at the start of the podcast maybe we just challenge people by surprise and it just became awkward yeah, there were some long pauses sometimes and I was like we need to edit that out like a minute yeah pause, while someone considers it's a bit like the man united midfield. I'm the pool skull was just like giving everyone the stuff they want and you're the roy keen just coming in and just scything people down, sometimes big time big time.
Speaker 1:I like that. I'd love to be mr roy key. I guess royane sort of carried that on into his punditry career as well just scything people down with his comments, people who say you're a nice guy, but you're not a nice guy. Who did he say that to? Was it like Jamie Redknapp or something?
Speaker 2:Oh, that's it yeah, someone had Roy Keane as a spirit animal, didn't they? Was it Matt?
Speaker 1:Oh, had roy keenan, the spirit animal, didn't they? Was it matt? Oh, yes, yeah, uh, no, it was what's his name? The masculinity person? Uh, I can't remember his name right now, but yeah, that's, that's a great answer spirit animal yeah, other things I've learned is being in the us on pacific time, eight hours behind the uk, and then scheduling people for 8 am and then waking up early to an alarm and then they cancel annoys me. I've learned that it annoys me who knew?
Speaker 2:who knew that was annoying, who loves their sleep, getting up early and then being cancelled on the day yeah, we've had some epic excuses, though we won't go through them.
Speaker 2:The greatest ever episode um of a podcast ever that was recorded in sedona, of course, oh yeah, and then it failed to upload, yeah we've made a beautiful hike in the most incredible conditions and if you haven't been to sedona in arizona, the state of arizona, north of phoenix, you absolutely should go. It's beautiful and if you're spiritual af, like our friend dr richard l blake, you would definitely love it. But anyway, we delayed a hike and natalia, richard's lovely wife, was waiting for us so that we could record an episode that then completely failed to upload. So that was a bit of an annoyance, I have to say yeah, it was like the tenacious d song this is not the greatest podcast in the world.
Speaker 1:This is a tribute to the greatest podcast ever recorded.
Speaker 2:Yeah I totally agree um. Another person I'd like to highlight actually just flitting around a little bit who got a lot of love from um the people I send the podcast to in terms of texting me, was um natalie. I would get her same on Himmelrich.
Speaker 1:Yes, natalie Himmelrich yes.
Speaker 2:Like, yeah, extremely calming, extremely truthful and just an amazing way of looking at someone who's dealing with grief, trauma, difficult time. Just being present and the art of being present and I thought it was just such a nice way of looking at things, especially when you know more increasing number of people are going through mental health challenges just the art of just sitting with those people in those moments, um, I just thought was such a lovely, you know theory, you know lovely concept yes, natalie is someone who's had a big impact on my life.
Speaker 1:You know, I met her when I was training as a holistic counselor she was fellow trainee and you know a lot of people throw around the word like presence. Oh, you know just, you know the art of being. You know, as a therapist, it's about your presence and what you're resonating, and it isn't a kind of an intangible thing. There is this thing called field theory. You create a field in therapy between you and your client and that field does the work. And natalie certainly creates a field, unlike many I've experienced just of just complete acceptance and and empathy and warmth and uh, just, yeah, she, she's so well regulated herself she can regulate those around you. And as I think about it, I think about like I feel in my chest just this like warm sensation of what it's like to be in her presence yeah, I felt like I was just so emotional throughout the entire episode and I couldn't quite put my finger on why.
Speaker 2:But no incredible guests really really grateful to her. Um, I loved. You know the moments where you don't quite know what you're going to get. Sorry, central london stand, yeah police. I think there was, yeah um, yeah, so just I like the moments where you didn't quite know what you were going to get on an episode. I think it's just really interesting to see where people go in their conversations and what comes up for for us as hosts as well as as the guests yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Our lack of planning was really our advantage, there wasn't it?
Speaker 2:well, I do think there's a certain element that's. Like you know, we we did obviously have have um prompted questions and I think. But I think some of the best conversations we had were unprompted, to be fair, and if we are getting to know someone on the podcast then obviously, by extension, so are our audience. So I thought that was quite that, was quite nice and in a way it's just seeing where the the conversation went. Yes, indeed.
Speaker 1:Well, andy, what's next for you? Obviously, chartered surveying. And yeah, how is the scripts writing going? Are the competitions?
Speaker 2:you don't know this um, no one knows this I got to the final. This uh script writing competition shout out to stowe story labs. It's an unbelievable thing for me. I, there were 2 000 scripts and we're in the final 20. So the winner gets a 50 000 cash prize pretty, pretty tidy. Obviously that's to make the film, that's not just to go around the world or whatever, but, um, it feels unbelievable like in terms of obviously I you know, my challenge to myself is to validate myself as a script writer and that's obviously quite difficult to do sometimes. I've not got any training, but I think I write good dialogue. But just getting that validation just feels absolutely incredible. I'm not allowed to tell anyone I'm in the final, but by the time this airs it will be official and yeah, I mean one winner out of 20. It already feels like I've won. To be honest, I couldn't have imagined getting this far, so I just want to kick on and keep writing scripts and, yeah, keep my theme going of like hopefulness.
Speaker 1:There's usually an angle of mental health and hopefully a bit of humor in there as well do you want to tell us a little bit about this script and when it comes out in the cinemas, people will know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, to look out for it true, yeah, so we're going to make it anyway. So I mean, obviously 50,000 in the US would be incredible, but even if we don't get that, we're going to make it in the spring next year. It's kind of, I guess, inspired by a film that Ricky Gervais wrote which is on BBC iPlayer. I'm not sure how our American friends can access it, but it's called Seven Minutes. American friends can access it, but it's called Seven Minutes, and essentially the plot is about two people who come out onto a railway line to take their own lives and they obviously meet each other and I won't tell you the rest of it, but it's kind of like a really really interesting, simple concept. But it's kind of quite challenging because it's like they're both at their lowest but then they meet each other and they kind of strike up a semi-friendship. So I kind of it's a variation on the theme of that, I suppose.
Speaker 2:But we, um, it's about a guy who is stuck in a children's tube slide, so in an adventure playground, and he's found by someone who's on his way to his best friend's funeral. So there's a kind of absurdity of this grown man being stuck in a slide and this guy who's having the most difficult day of his life, black suit has to kind of navigate this adventure playground to get this guy out of the tube slide. So that is the basic premise and, yeah, hopefully it's quite heartwarming and it's just a nice little little tale of human kindness, I guess. Excellent me mate. Yeah, what's next for you?
Speaker 1:excellent me mate. Yeah, what's next for you? Well, linking in to another guest, special guest, one of the best guests ever joseph and you. He and I are in business together so he created this company called runga you can find it rungaco, r-u-n-g-a, and he does biohacking, he does retreats, and him and I are creating this flagship 12-week program. It's called momentum and it is going to be about holistic health. It's going to be a 12-week recorded program but with, uh, live sessions of breath work with me, conscious, connected breathing based on the fabulous results we had from the randomized control trial I did for my phd.
Speaker 1:And in those 12 weeks people are going to learn, obviously, about breath work. There'll be a lot of breath work in there. Joseph's done a ted talk on breath work, so he's a he knows this stuff. But also kettlebells. Joseph is a kettlebell certified person. You know he has his degree in exercise science. He's worked with a lot of athletes.
Speaker 1:Also got nutrition in there. So biohacking nutrition will explain about different diets, the benefits of keto versus carnival, what the best brands are, what's the problem with seed oils, those types of things which, where to get your water, how to filter your water, what kind of water bottles to avoid as well. We kind of have a sprinkling of spirituality. Runga is a kind of a spiritual word and, as many research studies have shown, conscious connected breath work does often elicit these mystical experiences. So we will be kind of introducing people to a little bit of spirituality, a little bit of those mystical type experiences. And yeah, for people who are maybe on the fence about spirituality, they're not really religiously aligned, or if they are religiously aligned and they want to try a, um, yeah, a different type of mysticism, that's going to be in there subtly as well. So it's going to be about purpose as well and 12 weeks you know you can do a lot in 12 weeks and, yes, that's going to be the main product amazing mate and you're moving to austin texas, is that correct?
Speaker 1:I will be moving to austin texas.
Speaker 2:Yes, at some point and joe rogan and those other people in austin texas yeah, maybe.
Speaker 1:Um, I'll definitely be going to the comedy mothership. Joe rogan's comedy club been once before very good, but uh, yeah, another thing about runga is they have a podcast. I've been on it. It was called the intuitive. It is being changed to Runga Radio and I will be co-hosting Runga Radio with Joseph. So if you like laughing through the pain, navigating wellness, and you want more of it, go to Runga Radio.
Speaker 2:Imagine laughing through the pain with an even better co-host.
Speaker 1:That's what you're gonna get no, with a exactly the same caliber of co-host diplomatic well done rich yes indeed, and I'll be coming over to austin to see you.
Speaker 2:I'm still going to come to the health optimization yes, the health optimization summit.
Speaker 1:I may be speaking there. I'm in conversations with them about, uh, maybe me doing a speaking of it. Well, we'll see what.
Speaker 2:Uh, it would be great to have you in the audience there yeah, and we can still access your breathwork services separately to all things.
Speaker 1:Runga right? Absolutely. Yes, I'm available for online breathwork and, as we know from the science, online breathwork is very effective. And my paper is actually undergoing peer review. It's been accepted by Nature Scientific Reports. It's been accepted for for peer review, so it doesn't mean it's been accepted for publishing. It means yeah.
Speaker 2:10 10, yeah, 10 reviewers what does that mean?
Speaker 1:it means 10 people, 10 other phds, are going to be looking at it like booing it effectively. So yeah, we'll see if I make it through that.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, that process well, all that remains is to say thank you very much to our audience for being um epic listeners and for engaging with us. I've really enjoyed that and I've loved the challenges as well. You know, in terms of you need to be harder on your guests, or I don't agree with that. I think it's all good stuff. It's all nice to encourage the debate and also thank you to you, mate. I really appreciate it. You were definitely the driving force behind it and you've taught me so much and I really appreciate your friendship and I really appreciate your dedication to this field and I will be there in some capacity, albeit a watered down capacity, every step of the way oh, thank you, mate.
Speaker 1:mate, I appreciate that. That's heartwarming. Thank you for being supportive in all ways and for showing up and being on time and adding your sense of humour and curiosity and an openness to everything and all of our guests.
Speaker 2:Well, you'll be pleased to know Rich and I will remain exceptionally good friends offline, but yeah, thank you so much to everyone who's ever listened to an episode, and over and out Cheers.
Speaker 1:Bye-bye.