Why Insight Work Fails—and How to Go Deeper with IFS

When clients say “I don’t know” in session, it can feel like hitting a wall. In this live Q&A episode, John Clarke breaks down what’s really happening when insight work stalls—and how Internal Family Systems (IFS) offers a radically different way forward. From hypoarousal and hopelessness to therapist parts that want to fix everything, this episode gives practical strategies for going deeper, staying in self, and navigating the complexity of parts work. Whether you're doing IFS solo or with clients, you'll walk away with tools, insights, and a deeper respect for the process.

Key Takeaways:

• Why “I don’t know” often signals a lack of self-energy—not resistance
• What to do when your therapist parts want to jump in and fix
• How IFS goes beyond insight and into direct internal transformation

Resources & Offerings:

➡️ Free IFS Training for Therapists: From Burnout to Balance: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast
➡️ 1-Month Grace Period with Jane – Use code JOHN or visit: https://meet.jane.app/john-clarke-ambassador
➡️ 10% Off at Grounding Well – Use code GWJOHNCLARKE or visit: https://www.groundingwell.com/GWJOHNCLARKE
➡️ 10% Off at Dharma Dr. – Use code JOHN or visit: https://dharmadr.com/JOHN

Connect with me:

https://www.johnclarketherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/johnclarketherapy/
https://www.tiktok.com/@johnclarketherapy
https://www.youtube.com/@johnclarketherapy

Grab Your Seat for the Free IFS Webinar Here: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast

➡️ Free Training - Learn how to integrate the principles of IFS into your therapy practice: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast

Transcript

[00:00:00] John Clarke: Hey everyone, welcome back to another live stream. I'm excited to do another q and a with you all. We've got, uh, quite a few questions that you all have submitted, so I really appreciate that. Um, so I'm gonna start pulling up questions one by one, and then from there, if you have a question. There's a couple ways to, um, submit that.

[00:00:21] Well, the easiest way is just to email support@johnclarketherapy.com and we can add it for next time. Um, if you feel like coming on live with me and doing some live q and a, asking your questions and getting them answered, doing some live, um, consultation here, then that would also be, that would also be great.

[00:00:41] So, um, if you're interested in coming on live. You can just email support@johnclarketherapy.com. Yeah. That being said, let's get into it. So, um, if you are here live, you're welcome to ask your questions. Also, just in the chat on YouTube to post a, [00:01:00] uh, a comment there and I can pull it up here. First question from Devin.

[00:01:05] She says, um, uh, I have a client who has little to no self energy. She's pretty hypo aroused, flat affect reports, feeling numb. She feels quite hopeless, says she's given up. Uh, she has no suicidal. Ideation. So the question is, yeah, really how to work with someone who is, um, uh, yeah, really withdrawn, hypo aroused flat affect.

[00:01:33] Um, one thing I might think of is how do you get a little more energy into her system? And you might think about using the body a little bit more. So, um, to, to be a little bit more energizing. You might think about having the client move in session. So if we think about the window of tolerance, you have [00:02:00] hyper arousal, which is too much, and hypo arousal, which is not enough.

[00:02:04] Basically it's about energy, right? So you might see if you can help her generate some energy by moving the body. Maybe it's standing up, maybe it's moving around. Maybe it's just gentle moving side to side and see how she can tolerate that. You might see like can she experience her interoceptive experience at all or does it feel pretty blocked or off limits or too, too much to kind of go there.

[00:02:32] How does she feel about the shutdown itself? And you could kind of go from there. So from an IFS perspective, a client who has little to no access to self-energy. So I, I wouldn't say she has no self-energy. I would just frame it as she has maybe no, or limited access to self-energy. If that is the case, then from an IFS perspective, really you should switch into direct access.

[00:02:56] That's when you are kind of bypassing her self energy. [00:03:00] And in lieu of that, you are interviewing. Her parts directly from your self energy, assuming that you have sufficient self energy to, to, to take that approach. A lot of people are intimidated by direct access, um, and it's a little weird at first, but it becomes normal and can actually be quite effective, especially for a client in, in this case.

[00:03:22] Right. Um, from a non IFS perspective, I'd also just be curious, like she, you mentioned the hopelessness, um. What would she need in order to have a little bit more hope? And I would zoom out as well and look at does she have purpose in her life? Is she working towards something? Does she have meaningful connections?

[00:03:41] Does she have a meaningful career? Is she looking forward to anything? Ask someone who's quite depressed. And one of the key features is, uh, a lack of looking forward to things, right? There's anhedonia, a lack of, uh, interest in things that they'd usually be interested in, but also in a [00:04:00] looking forward to things.

[00:04:01] Their future outlook is quite pessimistic. You can also create things to look forward to, whether it's a trip or uh, going to a concert or whatever it is. So you might have to get creative. We always have to get creative, really, let's be honest. That's, that's the work. Okay, if you're here live, you can ask your questions for me in the chat.

[00:04:26] I'll answer those as a priority. Otherwise, I'm answering questions that have been submitted ahead of time to support@johnclarketherapy.com or to folks on my email list. Um, you've gotten the chance to submit these questions, so definitely join my email list if you haven't already. Um. Uh, ARS is asking what are some tips for when clients have a hard time connecting with their parts and listening to the parts answers to questions.

[00:04:52] I often encounter a client encounter a client saying, I don't know. This is a really good question. So when clients say, [00:05:00] I don't know, like, I don't know what the part is saying, or how old the part is, that means that you're not really doing insight work with them. This is a really important distinction.

[00:05:12] And there's a difference between when you're doing real insight work, it's, it's, it goes from, um, how old is the part to, as you're here, connected with the part and looking at, looking at the part in its eyes. Can you ask it how old it is? Or ask him how old he is and just wait till you get an answer and you wait and you wait.

[00:05:34] Or the answer comes right away. And he goes, the client says, oh, he, he says he's seven. I thought he was like 15, but he, he says he's seven. Okay. And then ask him how old he thinks you are versus how old does he think you are. So we go from thinking about what we think we know about parts to actually getting the information directly from the source, which is what we should always, always do.

[00:05:59] [00:06:00] We always want to get it direct from the source. Yeah. Really good question and honestly, a really common thing right now, if, if a client's still, you know, not getting anything from their parts, then they're either blended with another part or they're lacking sufficient self energy to get stuff from the parts, right?

[00:06:24] It's almost like a magnet. So when, when we're in more self energy, they, it's like a magnet or a light. They just parts come out and start sharing stuff.

[00:06:30] Talk therapy isn't always enough, and as therapists, we can feel that in the room. You see your client stuck in cycles of anxiety, shame, and trauma. And despite your training, something is still missing. That's where Internal Family Systems Therapy comes in. My name is John Clarke, trauma therapist and IFS practitioner, and I'm hosting a free webinar just for therapists and practitioners to show you how IFS can transform both your personal healing and your client work.

[00:06:59] We're gonna [00:07:00] explore how IFS actually helps clients heal at the root, the eight qualities of self and why they matter in therapy, and a simple tool you can start using right away, no certification required. If you're ready to go deeper in your work and stop carrying the emotional weight alone, this is for you.

[00:07:16] Join us now. It's free link in the description..

[00:07:19] Question from Olivia. Olivia says, ways to stay, stay in self energy as a therapist when clients are extremely shut down and blended with hopeless parts. My problem solving parts or urgency parts jump in. Yeah, I, I get that. Um, one of the best things you can do here is to, um, get to know your, um. The parts of you that are getting activated around this, this client, that's gonna be the main thing.

[00:07:51] Uh, we have parts for many reasons that want to jump in and rescue, or help or solve or whatever. One of the best [00:08:00] things you can do outside of session is to actually invite these parts of your own and work with them, uh, you know, to, to work with them when you're not in session. You can do what's called a fire drill, which is basically like in your own time or in your own if FS therapy.

[00:08:14] Think about this client. And invite the parts out of you that, that want to fix or rescue or solve or whatever. That's really the work. So it's a very if FS thing that a lot of times it's like, what do I do in this client situation? Well, you look at your own system and work with your parts that are coming up.

[00:08:31] Yeah. Um, I'm very excited. We have a live, uh. Guest coming on. Will, I'm gonna bring you up here in a second. And, uh, so Will is gonna come and actually ask some questions live. So I'm gonna bring him up on, on, uh, stage here. And then we will, um, see what kind of questions he has and then we'll get back to, uh, our questions, uh, that either live or that have been pre-submitted.

[00:08:53] So, all right, will, can you hear me?[00:09:00] 

[00:09:00] Yeah, for sure. 

[00:09:00] Can you hear me okay? Yeah. 

[00:09:01] Cool. Yeah. Thanks for jumping on. Uh, let me know how I can help.

[00:09:08] Sweet. Yeah. Um, might be a bit of a lag with my connection, but, uh, yeah, that's okay. It works. Um, um, yeah, so you know, my question I've been seeing to your podcast for maybe about a month or so, and. Um, relatively new to like the framework of IFS sort of figuring it out. Um, and yeah, for myself, I've heard you talk a bit about like your more, your education, maybe more rooted in like psychodynamic therapy and then sort of your, you know, path to different modalities.

[00:09:42] So my question is around like. You know, someone who is maybe interested in like a more tradit like traditional like counseling or therapy education, um, but has an interest in like parts work and, um, [00:10:00] things of that nature. Like yeah, if you have any reflections, like looking back on your education, um, or any thoughts about like, um, yeah, what somebody might keep in mind.

[00:10:10] Um. Looking at, yeah. Those pathways. 

[00:10:13] Yeah. 

[00:10:13] Yeah. 

[00:10:15] That's a great question. Yeah. Thanks for, for bringing that up. Um, so as, as an aside, um, something I'm solely chipping away at is my PhD in counselor education, which is really looking at how our counseling programs built and how do we educate new therapists.

[00:10:31] Um, I'll say we're super behind. Generally academia is like, it's kinda like the government. It's like seven or eight years behind. The real world, you know? Not to mention that honestly, a lot of faculty haven't done clinical work in 30 years. So a lot of them don't know what if FS is and if they have, if they do, they certainly haven't used it or been trained in it or whatever.

[00:10:54] Um, also a lot of counseling programs and therapy programs in general, they [00:11:00] also lack good education around trauma work. This was, this is part of how I came to like even do this podcast, is really wanting to try to fill some of that gap between therapists and our ability to actually work with trauma and walk someone through, um, real trauma treatment.

[00:11:16] Um, that being said, a lot of programs, whether they advertise it or not, they tend to have a heavy leaning towards something. So for instance, yeah, as you mentioned, like my program was very psychodynamic. That wasn't advertised anywhere. It just happened that like three out of the four core faculty leaned heavily, super psychodynamic.

[00:11:36] And so that's what we learned for three years. And then I got out of grad school and had to quickly pick up other methods, techniques, learned CBT, eventually learn EMDR, things like that. I think that's a pretty common path. Um. That being said, if a program is explicit and says, Hey, we do this type of work, or, um, for instance, I have a, a supervisee.

[00:11:57] He went to Naropa, which is a somatic [00:12:00] psychotherapy program in Colorado. That's what that program is, right? They're gonna approach everything for those two or three years through a somatic lens, which I think is really interesting. So if you have an idea that you have some interest in things like that.

[00:12:16] You might go and seek out a program like that. You might also seek out a program that is just the best fit for you or the most convenient or near where you live, or most affordable, or has funding or whatever. Because I would argue that you're gonna become the practitioner you're gonna become regardless.

[00:12:34] And there is research. Yeah. To support that too. That most people, after say like five to seven years, they become who they're gonna become. They use a lot more of their personhood. As a therapist or as a practitioner, and they start working from a truly integrative perspective. So they might be incorporating three or four theories in a single breath without even thinking about it.

[00:12:57] That's where I think most practitioners end up regardless. [00:13:00] But that being said, like so you're training it, it's like it does matter and it also doesn't matter in a way. 'cause a lot of. How you're gonna end up is, is a lot about who you are and what you value and how you evolve your de definition of therapy and healing, which I encourage practitioners to always be working on that, that, that working draft.

[00:13:22] Totally. Yeah. That, that makes, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I appreciate you like, touching on like the, like the practical component that like for some folks it might, and even for like maybe myself, it might just be like, what's accessible? Um. And, um, I mean, not to, definitely not to like discredit like, uh, like universities and like formal degrees, but sometimes like you gotta get the ticket and then you can like start doing the things.

[00:13:49] Yeah. Yeah. Um, yep. Yeah. Would I be able to ask another, um, another question? Go for it. I love it. Yeah. Sweet. Nice. Um, [00:14:00] yeah, so, hmm. Trying to formulate this a bit more clearly. Yeah. So feel free to like, correct my language, you know, if I, yeah. Misspeak, what have you. But hopefully you can appreciate, or you can hear the sentiment that I'm coming from.

[00:14:20] But thinking about, you know, IFS as like a specific model, um. Often I find that human beings, when we like grip too hard to like a specific thing, whether it's like a therapeutic model or an idea or belief that can lead to things. You know, maybe like some blind spots or have some unintended like negative consequences.

[00:14:46] So for myself, being very curious about IFS, but by being more curious about like what parts is pointing to you both in our culture and in maybe some other cultures. 

[00:14:58] Yeah. 

[00:14:59] Do you have any thoughts [00:15:00] or like reflections around like

[00:15:05] staying a bit loose, like trying to keep that beginner's mind? Not like grasping on too hard, but also seeing, like seeing like the gold in like, you know, in models or, yeah. 

[00:15:15] Yeah. Well, I love where your head's at with this, because. Anytime someone is too dogmatic about a model or a theory, I have concerns.

[00:15:27] And there are a lot of clinicians, practitioners of any kind of therapist, a coach, whomever, um, who they find something and it, and it works, or they see some value in it and they see their clients like it and they clinging to it so tightly and they say, this is the end all be all right. It's like I have solved psychology.

[00:15:46] Part of, uh, what I love about therapy and psychology is it's not something to be solved. It's a limitless exploration for me. It's also, like I mentioned on the show, like I, I do martial arts right [00:16:00] now. I'm studying jujitsu. It's an endless, limitless thing, right? Like it's an art, right? And there's some ideas to understand it and to seek your teeth into, and also it's an infinite thing that you never understand.

[00:16:12] Um. That being said, it's like, um, there are many, many parts models out there. Um, Dick Schwartz didn't invent parts right? Um, I, I think what, what he did, and I'm extremely grateful for what he did, is, um. Put a framework around how to work with parts and put a framework around, oh, these parts are like protectors.

[00:16:37] It's like they're protecting the system, or they're protecting ones that are not doing much at all. They're just like holding the pain. That's extremely valuable. Right? And the six Fs and self-energy and all these pieces, and it really is beautiful and fits together and it's this kind of modular approach or.

[00:16:53] It's also just a lens like you can do, do IFS by just seeing people through parts. See someone at the [00:17:00] grocery store who's yelling at the cashier and see that person through parts. Right? That can be really helpful and go, yeah, there's, there's this really pissed off protector going, I've been wronged and I need to speak to the manager.

[00:17:09] You know, and you can have. Compassion for that. You can also notice parts of your own that are activated by that. So it's also like, part of what makes IFS different is it can be like a way of life. I think that's why people really love it so much. 'cause you can literally like walk through your day kind of from an IFS perspective, which is a little different, or not as holistic as like walking through your day from, uh, A CBT perspective or whatever.

[00:17:33] Not to say you couldn't, but, um, I think that's part of why the, the, the whole package of IFS. Um, is, is both like simple and very deep and profound. That being said, um, I agree. We have, you know, in my practice with my supervisees, we call it humble confidence, right? So having some ideas about how therapy works and what healing is my current definition, but holding them loosely, [00:18:00] right?

[00:18:01] Um, so that that idea of holding something loosely. Is essential to me. And that's how we as a primary stance, as a practitioner, maintain humility and reverence and what we don't know. And hey, let's try this thing together. And also as a, the practitioner not putting ourselves in this pedestal that I'm this guy that knows all this stuff.

[00:18:20] I'm this sage mystic that knows all this stuff and I'm gonna impart some epic wisdom onto you, which is what a lot of people think therapy is about, right? I come and lay down on this couch and just. Riff for nine months, and my client and my therapist imparts this epic interpretation. Right. It's like you hate your mom.

[00:18:38] Okay, great. See you next week. Yeah,

[00:18:46] totally. 

[00:18:49] Yeah. I appreciate your fuckings, man. Yeah. And your time. 

[00:18:51] Yeah. And anything else that would be helpful while we're here. I really, really appreciate being able to engage with you. Yeah, it's, it's 

[00:18:58] great. Yeah. I appreciate the opportunity. [00:19:00] Um, nothing's super clear. Um, so maybe I'll just kind of like leave it, leave it at good enough and take a George Stanza end on a high note.

[00:19:08] All right. 

[00:19:09] Uh, come back anytime. I'd love to have you on again as you're Yeah. Developing this stuff or even the career questions. Those are great too. So, yeah, thanks for, for listening to the, the show and being willing to come on and, um, hopefully others will do. Do the same now that they've seen that it's, you know, uh, not super scary, hopefully.

[00:19:27] But yeah, thanks again for, for jumping on Wil. 

[00:19:31] Yeah, yeah. Appreciate the time. Um, yeah, I'm only mildly terrified, so. Yeah. 

[00:19:36] Okay, good. Well, you have a good poker face, so we didn't know. Take care. Have a 

[00:19:42] good 

[00:19:42] rest of day. Alright, thanks again. Talk soon. Cheers. All. Well, that was thrilling. It was great to engage with you all live.

[00:19:51] Yeah. Like I said, if anyone's interested in doing something like that, I'd love to have you on and just have a conversation or do some consultation, run a case [00:20:00] or whatever, or your career or your practice. Um, Janet says, uh, how do you support parts to connect with the client self rather than external people's self?

[00:20:12] Okay. How do you support parts to connect with the client itself? Yeah, it, it's a really good question, you know, um,

[00:20:21] so for instance, if you're a therapist practitioner, you've probably had the experience I know I have and do of like, you sit down on a plane and the person just starts talking to you or telling you their life story. Uh, that's a, I think that's a good example of kind of what this is. When parts can kind of feel and sense and smell yourself energy and they're like, oh, I want some of that.

[00:20:46] It's kind of like a light, right? And, you know, parts being attracted to that light. You know, someone is warm and kind or has a warm and kind vibe. And so of course some parts come out and they wanna tell [00:21:00] you stuff and they wanna be seen and they want to connect with you and they want witnessing from you.

[00:21:05] So that's a bridge, right? And again, that's part of the bridge that we use a lot as therapists is if you even think about Carl Rogers, right? And a client comes in and goes, oh my gosh, I raised my voice at my, you know, my child and I'm afraid I'm a monster. It's like, yeah, I really hear that you're, you raised your voice.

[00:21:23] You were really scared in that moment and you're now, you're afraid you're a monster uhhuh. And part of what we're doing there is just witnessing the client and going, yeah, these feelings make sense. The anger made sense, and also the guilt and shame makes sense, right? From an IFS perspective, those parts are benefiting from Carl Rogers self, right?

[00:21:44] So it's not the end all be all. And part of how if FS is different is we want to. Uh, eventually create that bridge between clients', parts, and client self. That's the ultimate goal. But sometimes their access is [00:22:00] limited. Sometimes my access is limited. Right? Sometimes you go to your best friend or your partner, whomever, and go, I'm feeling really lost.

[00:22:07] I need help with this thing, right? Or, I just need you to support me, or whatever. Basically, like, I just need your love. Yeah. So if you're gonna, you know, think of it this way, or you're helping parts and you're noticing parts are connecting your self energy, um, I, I just don't see it as a bad thing, but it's like, um, a temporary solution, but it's not the, the destination.

[00:22:32] That's how I think of it. Again, ultimately the, the goal is always pointing clients' parts back to their self energy as much as possible when, when we have it and when we have access to it. Oh yeah, just a comment saying, that was very nice. The, um, will who came on live. Yeah, I really enjoyed that as well.

[00:22:55] Um, a weird thing about doing this podcast is usually it's just me sitting here looking at a [00:23:00] screen, talking and wondering like, is anyone listening? And then we like see the numbers and it's like, oh yeah, there's a lot of people listening, or thousands of people listening, but I don't know who you all are besides like, maybe my grandma listens.

[00:23:14] Um. And just getting that connection with you all in terms of like, who's, yeah, who's listening. I really, I really enjoy that. So it'd be great if I could see all of you at once, so I really know who I'm talking to. Uh, Amber says, how can I work with a client's part that uses substances without judging it and without accidentally taking sides with the part that wants to stop?

[00:23:39] This is a great question. Yeah. Again, benefit of having is such a great. Curious audience and audience of a lot, a lot of practitioners. Well, true to IFS form, I'm gonna point you back to yourself, right, and we're gonna go, okay. Their parts beget parts, so their [00:24:00] parts are activating some of my parts. And just as I'm encouraging the client to do a U-turn, I have to do the U-turn as well if I wanna do good clinical work.

[00:24:13] So just notice and honor and be with, there's a party of you that judges the clients use, right? Or they go, yeah, they have three bottles of wine a night, and there's a party that goes, geez, oh, that's really bad. Or whatever. Right? And they have the part that, that drinks the, the three bottles of wine a night, right?

[00:24:30] Or comes home from a long day and goes, I deserve it, I earned it. Or comes home from a long day and thinks about. A tough conversation they had or a piece of feedback they got that was hard to take. And they go, well, I'm just gonna have one or two or three bottles of wine or whatever. And the part that goes touching into shame is too much.

[00:24:49] So I'm gonna take us all the way out. I'm gonna do my firefighting thing. And then another part that want that wants to stop, it goes, we gotta stop this. This is outta control. [00:25:00] You're gonna ruin our lives and our body.

[00:25:05] Your job is to hold your own judgments and values, um, and honor them and be with them, but also not lead them and point the client back to their own system. Right? There's a part that says, let's drink. There's a part that says This is gonna kill us. Which one are you more aware of right now? Client. Which one can you connect with the most?

[00:25:24] Which one most needs your help right now? And can you turn toward that one and be with it? Right? Here's another example that is comment. Client goes, I'm in this relationship and I'm wondering, should I stay or should I go? And you as a person have personal thoughts and opinions about this, which they might be accurate.

[00:25:46] They might be completely, you know, biased based on your experience and your life and whatever your blind spots. So you may have a reaction and you have parts that go. [00:26:00] You should get the hell out there. This guy sounds like a nightmare. And sometimes if you're really tired or hungry or whatever or burned out, you might just say that, you know, and go, it sounds like you should get the hell outta there.

[00:26:11] Whoops. You know? Um, and if you're right, you're right. And the client goes, oh, thank God. You're right. You saved my life. Right now you're my savior and my guru, if you're wrong, they come back and go, what the hell did you do? You ruined my life. He told me to break up with my partner and now he's with someone else, and I regretted it, right?

[00:26:30] This is like the first episode of Shrinking with Jason Siegel, which is actually a really funny show, a really great show. I recommend it even for therapists. Um, so this is why therapists don't give advice. One of many reasons why we don't give advice, right? We don't want that power. It's, it's disempowering, disenfranchising for clients.

[00:26:52] So especially around addictive processes, you just want to be the mirror and go, yeah. I'm noticing again this part that says, screw it. Let's [00:27:00] drink, let's do it. Drinking is is fun. It, it works. Gets me distanced from those feelings and then a part going, we have to stop. This is, this is too much. And our doctor said to stop and our partner said to stop or whatever.

[00:27:12] Right? Or you gotta lose weight or what, whatever it is. Okay, so notice that those two perspectives exist inside of you right now. And in this moment, which one are you more connected with, or which one most needs your help? Which one are you feeling more open to? Which one is your heart more open to? Or can you have them both come forward and tell you about what could be good about drinking or not drinking?

[00:27:34] So much of if FS is just mediation. And again, if you had two people on a team that come in and go. I think we should do this thing. And the other person says, I think we should do the opposite. Right? And you're their leader or their their manager. Not to confuse with like IFS part that is a manager, but you're their leader, right?

[00:27:54] How would you help mitigate that situation? Well hear from both sides. First, openly and curiously [00:28:00] and compassionately, right? All perspectives are welcome here. Ultimately, self should be the one to decide, do we drink or not Drink. Do we have three bottles of wine or three ounces and make a more self-led decision about it.

[00:28:14] That's the goal. So we try, I don't, we try not to be the one to impose our values about wine is bad or the wine is good, right? That partner is bad or that partner is good. It might be true or have some truth to it, but you're not their friend. Right? And, and. We want them to decide because then they decide they take action in their life and they take full ownership of it.

[00:28:38] Whatever happens next, whether breaking up with their partner was the quote right or wrong thing to do or whatever. I hope that's helpful, Amber, thanks for the great question. Um, we'll go for maybe 10 more minutes or so if we've got other questions. Yeah.[00:29:00] 

[00:29:01] Hopefully this has been helpful so far. I've really enjoyed doing this. Um, you know, really as like a, a, a quick plug as well. We have, if you enjoy this type of help, we have our Pathways program, pathways to self, it's a monthly membership. Right now it's 99 bucks a month, which is a steal in my opinion because in that you get access to the membership site.

[00:29:25] You get access to, um, the course, all my meditations, my demos, my demo dissections, and then you get access to a weekly call with me on Zoom like this. But we would all be on Zoom and it's just a handful of people, like right now, five to eight people a week who come and ask questions. And we do hot seats and we work through cases.

[00:29:46] I do meditations and teaching, and so that's every single week you get that hour with me and some peers. So that's a really good way to get help. To deepen your work with IFS and other models and trauma work [00:30:00] in general and as a therapist in general. I've been doing this for, um, 15 plus years now, and so my love for, you know, teaching is, um, yeah, pretty deep.

[00:30:13] I love teaching and mentoring and, and, yeah. Guiding therapists and practitioners. So you could be a therapist or a coach or another type of practitioner. Um, you'd be more than welcome in the program. So link is there, John Clark therapy.com/pathways. If you wanna join, worst case scenario, you join for a month and it's not worth it.

[00:30:33] Best case scenario, you join and you stick around and you get tons of help that is far worth, uh, the money that you, you spend for it. So I'd love to see you in there. If not, you know, leaving me a review for the podcast on Spotify or iTunes or, and or subscribing to YouTube, leaving comments, sharing an episode with a friend really helps me to grow this.

[00:30:56] I wanna do this for as long as I can, as long [00:31:00] as I've got the, the support and engagement from you all. Yeah. Let's go for another question here. I think this, this would be good and then we'll go to, uh, a live question from, um, a bus or a bus. Um, this question is from Laura. Laura says, how should you feel?

[00:31:20] Well, I don't know how you should feel. The emotional equivalent of should is shame. That's a side note. How should you feel if a client identifies that their parts don't trust you as the provider yet? I'm trying to view this as a way, uh, trust is being developed. Um. I welcome it. So, for instance, the sheer fact that I'm a white man and presenting as such is activating for some people and some clients who, especially for many reasons, legitimate reasons, have been wronged by someone like me.

[00:31:54] I just invite that because that makes sense. That's part of their transference and [00:32:00] we wanna work with that. And I wanna invite that. Um, I don't see it as a personal offense because, uh, I haven't personally. Wrong them right or hurt them. Or if in the therapy work I have hurt them accidentally, I can own that and take ownership of that, and I might be triggering for their parts because of that.

[00:32:18] Maybe I have done something wrong, right? Or I was aloof one day or tired, or I missed the mark, right? Or they thought I judged them or whatever. This happens. So, but if it doesn't happen and they have no explicit reason to not, trust me, I still see it as just super valid and understandable. Right.

[00:32:37] Especially being a trauma therapist, the primary piece of trauma work is agency and safety and trust. And so for that to be there, I need to welcome all parts, uh, opinions and reactions of me. And I invite them out. I ask them right, check in, see if there's any parts that have questions, concerns about me and what I'm up to or who I am or how I look or whatever.

[00:32:59] [00:33:00] So, um, yeah, I, I, I really just, um, uh, yeah, I just invite it and I welcome it. Right. And if I have parts that are activated around that, or parts that really wanna be liked or parts that fear, I'm misunderstood by them. Right. And go, yeah, why don't you trust me? You know? Um, I, I try to notice that and I feel that in my body as a tensing and as a lurching energy of like, oh, I need to be liked by you, or I need to like show you I'm safe.

[00:33:25] That's an agenda. Parts have agendas, self does not. So I try to unblend in the session. Okay. We've got a live question here from abba. They're saying, I had a question. I'm diagnosed with C-P-T-S-D and stumbled upon IFS on YouTube. I found it very easy to tap into self-energy, but started getting overwhelmed with all the parts I was finding.

[00:33:50] This is common and especially given your, your, your trauma history. A lot of times when we go inside, the parts are like, oh, thank God you're here. And they come rushing to [00:34:00] the surface. They come rushing out. They come, they kind of overwhelm whoever's there, the therapist, the client, whomever. Right, because it's been this long or it's been decades of not having that help, it's been decades of, I've been locked in the basement wondering, is anyone coming for me is help actually on the way or not?

[00:34:21] And then all of a sudden we go, Hey, help. Help is here. And they come out of the woodwork. So that can be intense. I'm already gonna recommend that you have a therapist. To help you do this work because it can be so intense and because of your diagnosis of C-P-T-S-D, at least at first, to help you befriend some of these parts to help you kind of organize them and parts map them to help you practice on blending skills.

[00:34:46] Um, it would be important as much as you can. I know access is not always a given to even meet with a therapist once a month to help you do this. Ideally it's weekly, but just to help to get. Used to [00:35:00] going inside your system, used to working with your own parts, and then they might be able to help you build a bridge to doing IFS work on your own, which I think is your next question.

[00:35:08] Um, so yeah, the next question is, I'd like to know your opinion on doing IFS parts and shadow work on your own without a professional. I wanna say in the last three years I have learned so much and I'm grateful for IFS Yeah, I mean, I, I, I think like theoretically, um, IFS is one of those models that you can and many people do on their own.

[00:35:28] An easy starting point or a logical starting point is parts, meditations. I've got a bunch on here on YouTube, on the podcast on Insight timer. Uh, that's a great place to start and you really just see, um, yeah, you really just see how it goes, right? But the work can quickly become unsafe, right? Especially.

[00:35:54] Depending on your history and the amount of polarization that's in your system. So you do wanna be careful, you do wanna go slow, you [00:36:00] can get protector backlash and uh, things can get intense and you can kind of do damage in your system if you go too fast or don't have enough access to self-energy. So that's why a good practitioner, your corner is really, is really important.

[00:36:15] Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully that helps. Um, Amber says, if you could consider pre-scheduling your live on YouTube, your subscribers would be notified and it'll show in their subscription feed. Thanks so much for doing this. That's a great idea, Amber. And I think my producer's probably listening, so she will, uh, help me do that for next week.

[00:36:37] That being said, if you enjoyed this, um, I'm gonna do this again. I'm gonna do this again every week except for the weeks that I'm not here. So the next one of these is going to be one week from now, the 18th. 12:00 PM Pacific, 3:00 PM Eastern, and everything in between. So you can just add this to your schedule for a weekly recurring thing.

[00:36:59] I'll be [00:37:00] out on November 25th for the holiday, but then back December 2nd. So otherwise, you know, we, we'll be here weekly and, um, yeah, again, I, I'd love to have, have you all. Joining as much as possible, and I'd love to have more people join live. Like Will did one more bonus question, then I'll hop off. Um, okay.

[00:37:16] The question is, do you have advice from your own experience? Uh, combining IFS with Vipasana in general, Buddhist meditation and spiritual exploration parts work in Buddhist meditation specifically? Um. The, the short answer is, um, let me find their book. Um, so Ralph de La Rosa who passed, um, uh, this year, unfortunately, uh, Ralph was on my podcast, so they wrote this book called Outshining Trauma that is gonna answer your question in a book form.

[00:37:55] Ralph de la So I would look this up. I would order it. It's a really good book. [00:38:00] It's called Outshining Trauma, A New Vision of Radical Self-Compassion And the Forward is by Dick Schwartz. Um, this really good book, Ralph was a Buddhist, um, and very experienced with guiding. Buddhist retreats, meditations, things like that.

[00:38:16] So I'm just gonna point you to that, to that book as a starting point rather than try to be, you know, the expert of, of that question right now. But it's a great question and the short answer is yes, there's a lot of overlap and Buddhism and IFS marry very well together. Also, I had, um, I had Ralph on the podcast at one point, so you can look up that, um, interview as well where Ralph talks through the parallels between IFS and Buddhism.

[00:38:41] So. Yeah, it's a great question. Thank you for, for bringing that. Yeah. Amber says fantastic book. Highly recommend the audio version. Yeah, that's great. Um, there you have it folks. It's another one in the books. I really appreciate you all being here. Like I said, um, like, subscribe, comment, share with a [00:39:00] friend, all those things would really, really help me, um, to grow.

[00:39:03] This platform and my mission. Um, if you want help like this, join Pathways to Self where you've got my IFS course, our internal, um, community. It's like a Facebook group, but it's private on another platform that's not Facebook. And then a weekly consult call with me on Zoom. That's a small group consultation for any type of practitioner, therapist, coach.

[00:39:25] Whatever. Um, I would love to see you in there and, um, otherwise I will see you again in a week, same time, same place. Thanks again for being here. See you soon.

[00:39:34] Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok at johnclarketherapy and apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com.

[00:39:52] See you next time.