Why Therapists Struggle with IFS (And What Helps)

In this episode, I’m joined by Teddy Knebel, an IFS therapist and long-time Program Assistant for IFS trainings, to explore what it really looks like to grow into your voice as a therapist. We talk about the anxiety that shows up when learning IFS, how to relate to parts that want to “get it right,” and why trusting your own unique style is essential to effective therapy. If you’re new to IFS or looking to deepen your practice, this conversation will help you feel more grounded, confident, and connected in your work.

🌿 Key takeaways:

1. Most therapists think they need to “get IFS right”… but what if that pressure is the very thing getting in the way? 
2. You’ve been taught to follow the model—but what happens when your own style starts to emerge? 
3. Anxiety in the therapy room isn’t a mistake… it might be pointing you toward something essential.

Guest Info:

Teddy Knebel is an Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist working with individuals and couples in the DMV area. He has served as a Program Assistant (PA) for over 20 IFS Level 1 and Level 2 trainings through the IFS Institute, supporting therapists as they learn and embody the model. Teddy is passionate about helping both clinicians and clients navigate personal, cultural, and systemic trauma, and brings a grounded, human, and often humorous approach to the work.

Connect with Teddy: https://ifs-institute.com/practitioners/all/112124

More about the Virtual Blue Star: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xQa7dxpWYA

Resources & Offerings:

📚 Watch my free IFS training for clinicians - https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast
🧠 1-Month Grace Period with Jane – Use code JOHN or visit: https://meet.jane.app/john-clarke-ambassador
🌱 10% Off at Grounding Well – Use code GWJOHNCLARKE or visit: https://www.groundingwell.com/GWJOHNCLARKE
🧠 10% Off at Dharma Dr. – Use code JOHN or visit: https://dharmadr.com/JOHN

Connect with me:

https://www.johnclarketherapy.com/
https://www.instagram.com/johnclarketherapy/
https://www.tiktok.com/@johnclarketherapy
https://www.youtube.com/@johnclarketherapy

Grab Your Seat for the Free IFS Webinar Here: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast

➡️ Free Training - Learn how to integrate the principles of IFS into your therapy practice: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast

Transcript

Teddy Knebel: [00:00:00] We each will have our, our unique style, you know. Yeah. We may be leaning into different qualities of self-energy more because we have our own experiences. And so just embracing that as we learn the basics, we will have our own flavor and I don't have to look like this trainer or that trainer.

John Clarke: Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, trauma therapist John Clarke, for guest interviews, real life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, going inside is your companion on the path to healing and self-discovery.

Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in.

All right. Excited to introduce my guest for today. It's Teddy Knebel. Teddy is an IFS therapist for individuals and couples in the DMV area. [00:01:00] Uh, Teddy's also a dedicated PA for the Institute of IFS for level one and level two trainings. Teddy enjoys supporting therapists and everyday people who are new to the model and still carrying the impacts of cultural, systemic and personal trauma.

Teddy, thanks so much for being here. What else should people know about who you are and how you got here? 

Teddy Knebel: Um, well, I, at PAing is a big thing of what I do. Um, coming up on serving for 20 level ones and a handful of level twos. So that's been a big part of my journey as I, uh, become a licensed therapist.

John Clarke: Mm-hmm. 

Teddy Knebel: And, uh, learning the model and, and sharing in the learning of the model is something that's given me the clarity and confidence to, uh, pursue that dream career of being a therapist. Mm-hmm. So yeah, I am seeing clients and doing that and hope to keep doing that for many years. Yeah. Uh, when you ask what else about [00:02:00] me, uh, we'll see.

Um, notice a few things popping up and hesitation of where to go next. 

John Clarke: Mm-hmm. 

Teddy Knebel: No wrong answers. Right. Um, oh, a- and I can also comment on something that isn't apparent in the video that I also became totally blind in, uh, my early 20s. Yeah. So that's been, uh, a part of my process, uh, adjusting to that and, uh, being a therapist without sight.

John Clarke: Yeah. Wh- what is that like? 

Teddy Knebel: Um, it's, it's actually felt, uh, well, uh, two things there, right? Um, of course it's been a process and, you know, uh, I did seek therapy with that transition- Yeah. ... and I experienced different types and qualities of therapy, so I, you know can speak to that experience and [00:03:00] I, I think it's ultimately, um, I brought certain things to that, that shift- Yeah.

because it happened quickly. And I think one thing, even though we all have different fears and experiences of, of loss, um, I'm on the other side of it. And I remember it was like pretty quickly one eye and then the other- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: and I was still going to undergrad, uh, and I was like, well, okay, one eye went first in this particular way.

And I'm like, well, if the other goes, I'll be totally blind and, and, you know, what most people think, right, you know, game over. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Uh, 

Teddy Knebel: you know, forget any of your hopes and dreams for the future. Sure, sure. Uh, so you have pretty, uh, dark possibility, but, you know, you wake up and there you are. So I still, uh, due to the, my system, you know, got out of bed and, uh, kept going to class on a campus that has a lot of stairs and different kinds of [00:04:00] stairs.

So luckily didn't bang up or twist my ankles too much. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, which is still pretty wild that I did that without a cane at first- Sure. ... which is, uh, I, I can't imagine doing it now and wouldn't recommend it. 

John Clarke: Right. 

Teddy Knebel: But just that. And then, yeah, uh, there's challenges learning about the world of accessibility and- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: I am also having a thought, I haven't experienced that in the IFS community, that doubting of I haven't heard anyone- 

John Clarke: Mm. ... 

Teddy Knebel: really voicing that to me. So that's been wonderful that I can learn and share and, and support clients and, uh, we can even comment more about the therapeutic dynamics of- Yeah. ... how do we tune into things- Yeah.

um, that are happening for our clients, um, some, how do we use our site and- 

John Clarke: mm-hmm. ... 

Teddy Knebel: how do we, you know, maybe we overuse it. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, I think it was nice to see a demo with Kate Gardner and [00:05:00] she, she stated she was, she's like, "Yeah, in that session, I was closing my eyes more to, to attune to what was happening inside the client somatically because a lot was happening there."

And all of it, you know, there's useful information that people can get with their site too, so- 

John Clarke: mm-hmm. ... 

Teddy Knebel: I allow for both. And it, again, plays into each of us having our own strengths as- Yeah. ... as individuals, as therapists. Yeah. So I, I rambled something about that, so yeah. 

John Clarke: No, I love it. I love it. Um, I imagine, uh, there was a point at which you hadn't thought about the possibility of losing your vision until it was all of a sudden a possibility, or was it something that was always- 

Teddy Knebel: Oh um, it didn't get much warning either.

Um- Yeah. ... maybe a year or so, um- 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah, by, because somebody else in my family, my, my grandma was like, "Yo, this could be, uh, something for you to watch out for. " Yeah. And I was like, "Well, oh, I hope not. " [00:06:00] And, uh, that was the extent of it. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: So, uh, it was just, just happening rapidly and, uh- Yeah. Yeah. As you know, there's always multiple things going on in our lives too, so- 

John Clarke: Sure.

Teddy Knebel: multiple losses.

John Clarke: This episode is brought to you by Jane, a practice management software and EMR designed to help practitioners run their business, not the other way around.

Managing a practice can mean juggling more tools than you ever planned to. One for booking, one for documentation, another for billing. Each solves a small part of the puzzle, but because they don't work together, the manual admin adds up. Jane helps practitioners connect their core tools all in one place.

Payments are taken and recorded directly in Jane, so billing stays accurate and easier to track. Jane Websites helps new clients find your client, your clinic online. And if something needs attention, Jane's support team is available by phone, email, chat, with an understanding of how your entire system works together.

For [00:07:00] added peace of mind, Jane includes privacy and security features like two-step verification, role-based access levels, and HIPAA compliance so that you can feel confident in your practice and knowing that your client data is protected. Practitioners know better than anyone, a little connection goes a long way.

To learn more about how Jane can support you, uh, your clients and your business, head to jane.app/demo. And if you're ready to give it a try, you can use my code JOHN, that's J-O-H-N, for a one month grace period on your new account. Again, that's jane.app/demo. Use the code JOHN for one month grace period on your new account.

you're already, yeah, you're already on some themes around grief. Grief is so central to the work, um, and the work we do with clients, right? Yeah. And grief is central to our own lives. There's also the kind of, like, traumatic grief of, [00:08:00] gosh, I had never imagined my life without this thing, you know, um, I've shared this- Yeah.

before, but, you know, when I was in my early 20s, my dad died in an accident, and when my mom called to tell me the news, that was the first I had ever imagined, uh, you know, him not being here. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. Sudden- 

John Clarke: There's- ... Sudden, yeah. There's sudden, yeah, the sudden is there's something unfathomable about, um, I guess just our ignorance too, like what we could lose, whether it's a person, in your case you're- Oh, yeah.

Right. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah, 

John Clarke: of course. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Hmm. Yeah. 

John Clarke: So there's the shock, you know, there's, there's the trauma of it, and then eventually there's the grief once you can wrap your mind around, okay, my life is changing- 

Teddy Knebel: mm-hmm. ... 

John Clarke: in this way. 

Teddy Knebel: Yes. The grief- 

John Clarke: And there's nothing I can do about it. 

Teddy Knebel: And at the same time, yeah, uh, with whatever paces needed or possible, the, the adjustments- Yeah.

too. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, which, [00:09:00] yeah, depends too, you know, if you, I imagine I've heard stories, especially longer ago, you know, uh, you lose a spouse and, and all that disruption- Yeah. ... internally and you still have to adjust for the practical at the same time. And, uh, yeah, for me that I did have to tap into more, more patience and, and creativity and- 

John Clarke: I bet.

Teddy Knebel: and pausing. Yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Like even, um, and I also noticed that, uh, um, yeah, we both, in different ways, lost a parent at the, it was pretty early age, right? Yeah. Yeah. The start of the 20s, yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah, formative times. You think your life's gonna be one way, right? And it, it sounds like in your case, you're trucking along in college and did, did you already have the plans to be a therapist?

Teddy Knebel: I had the dream, but not the plans. 

John Clarke: Okay. 

Teddy Knebel: And yeah, honestly, I, I really, uh, because, [00:10:00] um, I didn't see the path I, you know, my mom would, uh, take my bro and I to like Barnes & Noble and I'd be reading psychology books and magazines and- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: um, that was like Friday evening, uh, in, uh, in high school. So there, there's that long interest.

And of course we know the younger parts that lead us down this path too, um- Yeah. ... deep roots for this calling. And, but I, I was, I probably, yeah, overly focused on the, uh, and intimidated by the number of years to- Yeah. ... to be a psychologist. And so I guess in that sense, I, I don't wanna sound like losses are all about silver linings here, you know, so apart wants to give that caveat, but- Sure.

um, something I did lean into more was audiobooks when I became blind. Yeah. And yeah, I used the time and honestly, I finished a lot more books through audio than I did with, uh- Interesting. Yeah, regular sighted reading. Yeah. Yeah. And, um, [00:11:00] yeah, so that included, you know, enjoying a very, again, in the vein of relationships and, and psychology and Brene Brown's books and seeing, hm, social work path, hmm, maybe that's something and- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: and then my, uh, my, most of my therapists have been social workers, so- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: uh, seeing that, and then that plus IFS brought it together, so- Yeah. ... I, uh, yeah, I, I was still trying to lean towards, um, some, some science classes, uh, I started engineering and then had to tap out of that, um, respect to people who can do that more easily.

John Clarke: As therapists, we hold space for so many, but who's holding space for us? If you're craving deeper healing and more powerful tools for your clients, I wanna invite you to my free webinar on internal family systems therapy. IFS changed my life and the way I practice. It helped me move through burnout, reconnect with my authentic self, and show up more fully for my clients and for [00:12:00] myself.

In this webinar, I'm gonna walk you through what IFS is and why it works, a simple tool that you can use right away, and how to bring this work into your practice, even if you're just beginning. This is for therapists ready to go deeper. Join us now with a link in the description.

Teddy Knebel: And, uh, I just, yeah. Um, so there, there were some interests, but, and I was still doing psychology classes, so just kind of doing that as a double major and- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: just intimidated, you know, my own part's fears and hesitations. 

John Clarke: From, from what I remember, and, and so where I met you is you were a PA in my level one and I have- Right.

I can add some colors to that, but, um, from what I remember, you, uh, you learned, you trained in IFS before you became a therapist, right, before you got your graduate degree? 

Teddy Knebel: Right. It was, um- 

John Clarke: Or something. 

Teddy Knebel: It was around the same time. Uh, yeah, so it was before I got my degree. And so I had that experience of doing IFS trainings while doing social work school.[00:13:00] 

John Clarke: So were you just disregarding everything your professors were teaching you and you were like, "I've already found the model I love." 

Teddy Knebel: I was spreading the good word, uh, to my- Okay. ... uh, you know, in the, the discussions in class and in my papers- Yeah. ... said, yeah. Um- 

John Clarke: Hopefully your professors didn't get too tired of, of, you know- 

Teddy Knebel: Um-

The, uh- Yeah, I, I, I hope I, yeah, maybe inspired some interest and curiosity in it and, uh, so for my, my internships, I sought out IFS supervisors, which, which is really fantastic. Got it. Um, and then my, uh, even this year, it was pretty exciting. Frankie Anderson came to my school, Salisbury University- 

John Clarke: Uh-huh.

Teddy Knebel: uh, on the Eastern Shore of Maryland and gave a talk on trauma and parenting. So I was surprised and excited to see that. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. That's really cool. It's a, it's a small world- 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. ... where you feel never know. Yeah. Oh, it is. It is. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: So yeah, we, we met in the training- Yeah. ... and yeah, I felt [00:14:00] lucky to cross paths there and, uh, anything that did you wanna mention from?

John Clarke: Yeah. Well, you, you would say something really funny, um, over and over again, which, um- 

Teddy Knebel: Hmm. ... 

John Clarke: I don't know. There, there's a, a qualm I have with IFS is like, um, it can feel a little too, um, quote woo-woo at times you know, and there's a lot of like, uh, you know, okay, you know, they listen to that, notice that. Mm.

Okay, just notice that space. Um, and then you would just break it up with being really real and funny. And in the anxiety of therapists, myself included, trying to, like, get it right- Mm. ... in doing our, you know, practice sessions, you would say that you were out of gold stars every time or something like that.

I 

Teddy Knebel: know, I'm just always out. Sometimes I get to- I don't think you're found in it, but- ... Or if you're still out. I have to give them to other people and then I'm all out by the time it's, it's [00:15:00] practice, which is- Yeah. ... is usually people's favorite part of training. Um, and yeah, I hear, I, that's what I find a good use of humor to, to take the edge off.

Um- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: it, it's, yeah, it's something that I enjoy. I admit I, I haven't found a way that seems helpful to bring it in with my clients. I know some people talk about that. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And of course, I, I have a sense of humor. It's, you know, the only sense to get sharper when you lose your sight. Um, but, um, uh, with it does come discernment, you know?

Yeah. Uh, I think that's important. So, um, I'm glad that landed well for you, and that's what I tend to hear. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And, uh, uh, there's always a chance that, you know, I'll stumble and have to repair, and that's okay. 

John Clarke: Well, I think, for me, it just really spoke to, first of all, the anxiety of being new at [00:16:00] something.

That's an anxiety that I'm, you know, quite familiar with. And coming into my level one training, you know, I had been already using the model for a few years, you know, Derek Scott was my original teacher and mentor and, you know, so I, you know, I had, and I'd even been assisting in stepping stones- Yeah. ... for a long time at that point and, you know, like a PA type role.

Yeah. So I had my understanding of the model and then also learning, like, the trainer's understanding of the model for my unique, uh, level one, which it seems like they're all pretty unique and the teachers are unique and that's a good thing. Um, but you kind of get their version of, of IFS, I guess. So there's, there's just that anxiety of like being new at something, something feeling clunky, worrying that you're being evaluated or judged- Oh yeah.

right? And we've got parts that really just wanna prove our worthiness, right? And if anything, because I had practice with the model, maybe even more so I wanted to prove that, like, I have some competence already with the model and that stuff- [00:17:00] Oh, yeah. ... it really comes up and it came up more during my level one than I thought it would for me.

Uh, it was, it was more anxiety provoking than I thought, but it was also a, a good, uh, you know, a good, good practice of just being in the hot seat and thinking, gosh, I'm, I've got a lot of parts up around this idea of just like being evaluated or good enough parts, you know? 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. Uh, because that's, well, first, you know, learning something is frustrating and, and, uh, vulnerable to do in front of others who are our professional colleagues and it's, that's why I think it's wonderful that people are willing to do it in trainings.

Yeah. Yeah. And, um, you know, I, you know, kind of use humor to point that out too, that it's, you don't have to. Yeah. Or we're just offering it. You already paid for it. Yeah. And, um, and parts are up. And again, that's where we're touching on choice again. Like, you can choose to take your turn or not. Um- Yeah. ... you could still squeak [00:18:00] by and, yeah, you don't have to do this practice round, but, but it's great to notice the parts that come up.

And, uh, um, we do also wanna support, you know, yeah, uh, taking the evaluation out of the, um, learning- Yeah. ... because judgment is generally what we're protecting against. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um yeah. Yeah. 

John Clarke: Mm. 

Teddy Knebel: Gee. 

John Clarke: Well, you s- you seem to really be good at, again, kind of easing, uh, therapist anxiety around learning the model. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, that's what I hope to do.

Yeah. Um, to, to make it safe enough to practice and practice something that's so important to our identities, right? Uh, and so, you know, that's what we do, supporting therapists in a training or supporting clients, having enough safety- Yeah. ... to work [00:19:00] towards helping the parts that, yeah, are burdened and, and that's the others are really trying to avoid that judgment and- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: yeah, we know about that. 

John Clarke: Uh, t- tell me about how your relationship or even understanding of the model has changed and evolved over your time using it and, and also helping to teach it across, you said, 20-some, uh, PA gigs, which that, that's a tremendous amount of hours and students, so. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. Um- 

John Clarke: That sounds like a gold star- Yeah, it's-

To me, but- 

Teddy Knebel: It's- 

John Clarke: And I, I do have- It's a 

Teddy Knebel: lot. Yeah. Oh, you have to have one? Okay. Yeah. It'll, it's in the mail. 

John Clarke: It's a virtual one. Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Oh, it's a virtual. Thank you. 

John Clarke: It's a 

Teddy Knebel: gyp 

John Clarke: that's a sticker. I'll text it to you. 

Teddy Knebel: Oh, okay. I hope it's the blue star for Mario. It is. Um um, and that is part of [00:20:00] the, the upshot of getting to see, as you said, trainers having their own takes.

Yeah. So seeing different trainers, yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And it doesn't change the heart of the work, but, um, and I, I have been touched, you know, again, by the continued, uh, willingness to practice and just how many awesome, many unique therapists there are out there. And I wanna point out unique too because I, that's mostly pointed out in trainings, but- Yeah.

I definitely heard it stressed by Kay Gardner in my level one- Okay. ... uh, that we each will have our, our unique style, you know? Yeah. We may be leaning into different qualities of self-energy more because, you know, we have our own experiences and- Yeah. ... so just embracing that as we learn the basics, we will have our own flavor and, um, yeah, don't have to look like this trainer or that trainer.

Um, [00:21:00] so with the model- Yeah. ... yeah, I, I, I don't know if it's, yeah, it's not changing at its core, but just helped me, uh- Yeah. ... by seeing it continue to go steadily forward for so many people, helps that trust, uh, trust grounded and experience, which I, uh, I like, um, I think I like one little moment at the, the last rate of training because we have a little graduation ceremony, which I always love and everyone can share whatever they want.

And there was, in a staff meeting, there's some concern of like, um, will it work out, will, will some people share too much- Yeah. ... and will we go over time because the training ends at a certain time? And the AT was really sweet and I was like, "Oh, I, I don't wanna cut people off." So, you know, of course I came in half joking, offering to be the bad [00:22:00] guy to cut people off.

Um, yeah, I thought I could offer that. Yes, yes, very good. Thank you. And that would be the end of their share. 

John Clarke: Right. 

Teddy Knebel: But then, uh, a buddy PA was, he came in and he's like, "Actually, I think we can just trust that it'll balance out. Some people will share more, some will less, and we're telling them what the target is and it'll work out.

And that made sense to me because you see a number of graduations and they do work out and that in many ways, um, and sometimes shit does go down too. But, um, that trust- Yeah. ... and base grounding it and experiences, is great. Yeah. Uh, in that setting, you know, in, in therapy and, and life. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And yeah, I ges- running with that in my mind now that, like, could be part of updating too.

Yeah. Like, look, you know, how things have been going and how we continue to do them together, you know, for the parts that who, who [00:23:00] can get, get more scared and caught up in what might go wrong, oh, in the next hour or, or this weekend. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: So ... And 

John Clarke: that, that's a lot of what ... I, I think a lot about anxiety and- Yeah.

you just captured a lot of it, which is want- wanting to know more than is available to us, wanting more information than is available to us currently. 

Teddy Knebel: What's 

John Clarke: gonna happen- More certainty than's available. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Is, you know, what, what's the stock market gonna do? Who's gonna be prevalent? Oh, yeah.

What's the weather gonna be? 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah, that, I thought of that earlier, sorry, with that, um- Go 

John Clarke: ahead. ... 

Teddy Knebel: because we ex- we experienced those personal sudden losses and- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: and then part of me, you know, we have those parts that, that watch the news and are like, are we gonna experience a, a macro level loss- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: uh, uh, in addition to the ones that we have been experiencing, um, [00:24:00] you know, that we're already having to confront and- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: and be with our parts and all those, the pain and, and feelings. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, yeah, what's next? Will there be a, a loss that we're not expecting, as you said? 

John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Anyway, uh, I guess part of it wanted to, uh, to put that out there.

Right. And people can, uh, yeah, check in with their own anxious parts on that scale. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, but please go ahead. 

John Clarke: Well, s- something that has worked for me a lot, and again, this was like a Derek Scott-ism, which is I know, if I notice there's a part of me that's worried about a thing, and again, it's like this part wants to know more than is available to us right now.

And sometimes what we do is we try to just reassure or talk that part out of its fear, or I'm sure it's gonna be fine, which it's like you don't know. So that doesn't really land, right? And, and we think about- Oh, right.That's the 

Teddy Knebel: other one, that's the 

John Clarke: other side that's like, [00:25:00] yeah, yeah, don't 

Teddy Knebel: chill out. It's our, yeah.

John Clarke: Chill out. Yeah, which can land like an invalidation of like, don't be ridiculous. Mm-hmm. Don't worry, calm down. Mm-hmm. Right? So it really can subtly get into a dismissal. And I have this moment all the time as a parent, you know, I was dropping off my six-year-old this morning, and she was so thrilled all morning about the book fair.

Did you have a book fair growing up? 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, I did, yeah. 

John Clarke: Okay. Yeah. So it must have been, it must be a universal thing or a very American thing. Like, you know, two times a year, you get to show up and you get to buy some books and the kids lose their minds. And it's really less about the books and more about like the little erasers, you know, or like ascented eraser or something.

Yeah. My, my 

Teddy Knebel: guess is that the, the bar is low, uh, for 

John Clarke: the average school day. It is. Uh-oh. So they just lose their minds, right? So she's been excited about this for weeks. And then this morning we're getting ready to walk in and she's like, "Daddy, I'm scared." I'm like, okay, you know, "What, what are you scared of?

She's like, "I'm just [00:26:00] scared." She's just like, "I don't know how this is gonna go, the book fair." It's like, okay, yeah, well, I know you've been really looking forward to it and now you're scared. She's just like, "I just don't know how it works or like what I'm gonna, uh, do once I'm in there." And as much as I want to try to just flat out reassure or it's fine or you're fine, because some part of her doesn't feel fine, right?

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. 

John Clarke: Or is confusing the anxiety, the excitement with anxiety or the, um, what if I pick a, you know, the wrong book or what if I- Yeah, the, yeah, getting 

Teddy Knebel: it right, all these things you could mess up maybe, uh- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: if I'm sensing that, yeah. 

John Clarke: So- And so the, the Derek Scott thing was just like, of course, of course there's a part of you that's worried or has so much built up around this that you're, you're also scared.

So I offer that to my own parts at times and it, it tends to really help and I encourage clients to offer that as well. Of course you wanna know more. Of course, uh, life is scary. Of course, we wanna know what the [00:27:00] future holds, right? Or what's gonna happen to your life or your job or your marriage or your kids or whatever.

And just offering that, like, of course- mm-hmm. ... and really nothing beyond that is I think a nice response- Right. ... anxious parts. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah, that's sincere validation. 

John Clarke: That's my TED Talk, no pun intended. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, yeah. And I would add another thing that is at the heart of it, and I imagine you'll agree that it's like, of course, and I'm here too, and I'll be- There you go.

that companionship, that's another great C word. Yeah. Um, so, and that's part of the process of continuing to connect. Yeah, yeah, you know. Yeah. We agree. I love that. Um, the, yeah, I'm here and, and I'm gonna throw in other things, like, what else? But, uh, and I know, I don't know if, uh, Bob said it in one of your episodes with him, but if the suffering feels a [00:28:00] bit big to, to be within the classic self-energy, uh, internal way- Yeah.

you know, finding that, that spirit that's big enough to hold it. 

John Clarke: There you go. Um, 

Teddy Knebel: so- 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, 

John Clarke: yeah. Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Together. 

John Clarke: That we can go through this together. Mm-hmm. Let's see how this goes together is, I just think a beautiful image. And again, my, you know, my little moments every day are as a parent thinking about this relationship between self and parts, uh, and what attachment is and what attachment means.

Um, and again, it doesn't mean I'm gonna get it right 100% of the time. It means, uh, I'm gonna try to be there for the way, in the way you need me to be. And when I'm not, I own it and I repair- Yes. ... and go, "Hey, can we try again?" Which is something that I think, you know- Yeah. ... uh, a lot, for a lot of people, our parents had a hard time doing, right?

I remember- Yeah. ... I was telling someone the other day, I did, [00:29:00] I did, and they did an amazing job, I don't remember my parents ever apologizing. Mm. I apologize a lot to my daughter. If I, like, get something wrong, or I've lost my temper or whatever, I apologize a lot. And I just, I don't remember that happening growing up.

So that is something different about this, like, gentle parenting generation that's kind of going on now, but I think about- Yeah. ... to just from an IFS stance of, like, getting it right versus just really trying to be there and return to that connection. 

Teddy Knebel: It's great to be able to do things differently- Yeah.

uh, than our parents and, uh, yeah, as we heal the impact of those moments that, that we're burdening. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And, uh, I, I couldn't even connect them. My mom would apologize, but the fact that there was a pattern, right, because ... And, and, and I think they're including this more in, in level one trainings too, that it's, repair is more than just, you know, I'm sorry, right?

So- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: it's a process and, uh- 

John Clarke: [00:30:00] mm-hmm. 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, glad to hear about these examples that you're able to offer to your daughter. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, yeah, I know there's a couple thoughts ready to, to jump off of that too. Where, where are we? Um,

yeah, I was just admittedly, uh, I, I know we're touching on repair and, and book fairs and

check in with you because admittedly I, um- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: didn't have ... Yeah, sometimes I get rambling on and sometimes I have to check in and see, uh, what would be most useful. 

John Clarke: I, I have a curiosity. I always have some curiosities and we got maybe 10 or so minutes left. Um- Cool. And this is a piece that you kinda led with early around being behind, but I'm, I guess I'm curious how, what's your [00:31:00] relationship with that and what's it like to position that in new encounters or new relationships or with, uh, clients?

And, yeah, is that making sense? 

Teddy Knebel: Um, yeah, I, I, I disclose it, um, in an initial contact with a client or prospective client and, uh, with that, I, I like to be clear, um, you know, that I, I don't need much support around that and that I'm really open to the thoughts, comments, questions around that. Mm. Just as with anything else, that I wanna keep getting those, those thoughts, those concerns, that feedback.

Yeah. Um, and especially as we continue to, in the process, the first few sessions. Yeah. So in that sense, it's part of that, and honestly, I haven't heard, um, much concern around it. Yeah. [00:32:00] Um, I'm just continuing to invite any of that feedback- Yeah. ... because, yeah, that's what we wanna welcome. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, is that what you're asking?

John Clarke: I think so, yeah. I guess- 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. ... 

John Clarke: to what degree has, has losing your vision shaped your identity, or I guess, what does it mean to identify as a blind person? 

Teddy Knebel: Um, it's ... I think a couple of things that has brought to me is being aware of the importance of accessibility, because that's where we run into the most trouble.

Um, will a- ableist mindsets that, of course, we've all internalized- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: along with all these, these other isms that we are the water that we live in. Um, and m connected me to great people in the community. Like the NFB, [00:33:00] National Federation of the Line. And that's been a wonderful part of that experience.

And so the identity is about, um, you know, again, being more free to, to be yourself and, and follow your dreams. And like the NFB's motto is I live the life you want and- Yeah. I, I, interestingly, yeah, that, uh, becoming blind was part of the path that, that led me to one thing and another. Yeah. I am living life I want now.

Yeah. So it's, yeah, just increased awareness of that, uh, aspect of bias. And, um, I still watch a lot of, um, movies and TV shows with my partner- 

John Clarke: mm-hmm. ... 

Teddy Knebel: because it's pretty prevalent to have, uh, audio narration tracks- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: as an option. It's frustrating when, uh, yeah, a new movie doesn't have it for some reason- 

John Clarke: Uh-huh.

Teddy Knebel: on streaming. Um, [00:34:00] but yeah, uh, still enjoy that. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And I actually discovered it, uh, accidentally before I went blind and it's pretty cool if anybody wants to check it out. It- Yeah. ... just tells you what's important to pay attention to. Mm. And, uh, yeah. Yeah. Um, so same journey about authenticity and, uh, being able to, to stay true to, to what's important to you.

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And, uh, being creative and persistent with the, uh, the, the challenges, new, new skills, inaccessible things along the way. Mm-hmm. So, yeah, I feel, uh, fortunate that, uh, what I have dreamed of doing and, uh, hope to do for a long time, I can do blind. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: So- 

John Clarke: Definitely. 

Teddy Knebel: [00:35:00] Yeah. 

John Clarke: Yeah. Well, yeah, th- thanks for, um, for sharing that.

Um, I guess what, what else do you feel like is missing from the conversation, if anything, Teddy? We've got, you know, a couple minutes left, but, um- mm-hmm. ... yeah, what else do you want people to know or what else feels unsaid around your journey, your life, your, um, your journey as a therapist and an IFS therapist?

Teddy Knebel: Uh, let me see.

Hmm.

One is that my, my journey continues. I like that, uh, Mike Elkins is, "In a year, we'll all be better at this. " 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And he's someone who's been doing it for quite a long time. Mm-hmm. And, uh, another quote that I like to share from Kate Cardener is, "If we're not having fun with this, what are we [00:36:00] doing?" And I like to keep that one because even though I can help, you know, bring some humor in trainings- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: I still need to keep working with my parts when I forget that. Yeah. 

John Clarke: Right. 

Teddy Knebel: Um, in this work that we do and in life. So, um, I'll share that with everyone and, uh- Yeah. ... say it once more to myself. 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: And, yeah, with that, just the, uh, offering steady companionship and, and trusting in each other- 

John Clarke: mm-hmm. ... 

Teddy Knebel: and, uh, because that's, I, I have parts that are sensitive to leadership. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Uh, I'm an Enneagram type nine, and so the wing there's, you know, the eight wing- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: uh, I know people may or not be familiar with something you can choose to look into or not.

Yeah. I'm not gonna get into it in our final minute, but- ... Uh, the eights are especially sensitive to quality leadership- Okay. ... that they can trust [00:37:00] and injustice. Interesting. So those are some, some trends there. And, um, yeah, just noticing in moments of leadership- Yeah. ... where we talk about self-leadership, um, we're the, in the position of power leadership with clients and, um, sensitive when, when you're in a group and the leader is either not speaking up and addressing something that's happening or- mm-hmm.

or you can sense their managers coming out with, with some kind of wanting to control because there's some fear because we, we can feel that and, and what if they could trust? 'Cause that's something, as I already mentioned, I, in trainings, I trust the people that choose to come together and learn and grow together.

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: Like, it's gonna be okay. We're, we're gonna get through this together. And so there's that part that gets up in me when I'm like, "Oh, why, why are you anxious about this detail?" Um- 

John Clarke: Yeah. ... 

Teddy Knebel: so just ending with that, again, companionship [00:38:00] and trust and hopefully we can have fun amongst all the, um, the serious concerns.

Yeah. That's another, o- oh, one other thing that I, I like to aim for, for sincerity, you know, because we respect the, everybody and, and again, this, this IFS work is sacred. 

John Clarke: Mm. 

Teddy Knebel: But to me, there's like a little sense of seriousness being a little closer to that, that fear that we have to handle this with care or it could go really wrong and- 

John Clarke: Yeah.

Teddy Knebel: and again, that's, as Mike always points out, you know, protectors put out fires with gasoline. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: And sincerity and respect just feel better to me. 

John Clarke: Yeah. 

Teddy Knebel: So- 

John Clarke: Love it. 

Teddy Knebel: Yeah. Yeah. 

John Clarke: Sounds like a good note to end on. Um- 

Teddy Knebel: Great. 

John Clarke: Awesome. Well, uh, thank you so much for, yeah, being here and doing this. I had, like I said, I had wanted to get, you know, this [00:39:00] conversation, uh, you know, uh, have this conversation happen since I met you at level one and just really appreciated your humor and authenticity, just really stood out to me and it helped me learn, um, you know, and, and, and enjoy that, that process more.

So thank you for all your work you do there through the Institute and, um, uh, I've got here in your bio, you've got some openings for therapy as well, so I'll put a link to your, um, your profile, your institute profile and the description and show notes and everything and- Great. ... uh, for now, we'll, we'll leave it there and I'd love, love to have you back anytime.

Teddy Knebel: Well, I'm honored to join you here and, uh, yeah, glad that you keep putting out so much wisdom and, uh, happy to be in touch. 

John Clarke: Awesome. 

Thanks, Teddy. 

Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok @johnclarketherapy, and [00:40:00] apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com.

See you next time.