Why Therapists Should Never Work Harder Than Clients

In this live Q&A episode, John Clarke answers listener questions about IFS therapy, shame, addiction, protectors, and self-energy. He explores why therapists often burn themselves out by working harder than their clients, why slowing down is essential for healing, and what it really means to trust the client’s system in the therapeutic process. 

Key Takeaways

1. Why “don’t work harder than your clients” may completely change the way you approach therapy, relationships, and helping others.
2. How protectors learn to trust the healing process — and what actually creates safety for vulnerable exiles to emerge.
3. The surprising reason good therapy often feels slower, more tedious, and less linear than we expect.

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➡️ Free Training - Learn how to integrate the principles of IFS into your therapy practice: https://go.johnclarketherapy.com/ifs-webinar-podcast

Transcript

John Clarke: [00:00:00] A good rule of thumb, again, is don't work harder than your clients. And if you are, slow down, check in with yourself, notice why

Going Inside is a podcast on a mission to help people heal from trauma and reconnect with their authentic self. Join me, trauma therapist John Clarke, for guest interviews, real-life therapy sessions, and soothing guided meditations. Whether you're navigating your own trauma, helping others heal from trauma, or simply yearning for a deeper understanding of yourself, Going Inside is your companion on the path to healing and self-discovery.

Download free guided meditations and apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com. Thanks for being here. Let's dive in.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the show. My name is John Clarke, licensed therapist. I'm a group practice owner of Calm Again Counseling in San Francisco, California, and I'm the host of this show, "Going Inside: Healing Trauma From the Inside Out." So I'm happy to be here with you for another live Q&A. We've got some questions that were submitted [00:01:00] ahead of time, so I'll start with those, and if you're here live, ask me your questions in the chat and we will, um, we will get started.

Okay. We've got fan mail, which is pretty exciting. Um, the fan mail, this is coming from, uh, Seattle, Washington, is, "With firefighter behaviors like SI, self-harm, addiction, do you address those parts immediately or go with the speed of trust and let the system guide?" Well, uh, it's a little bit of both, right?

So if c- someone comes to me and they are leading with this stuff, then we're basically gonna start there, and that's where the work is gonna be focused. That being said, I'm always gonna do double due diligence with my contracting, meaning just 'cause a client talks about something doesn't mean I assume that I have their permission to treat it.

This is really essential, and this is kind of mind-blowing for some people. Again, just [00:02:00] because they're talking about it doesn't mean I have consent to treat it. So if they're talking about their drinking, I'm still gonna ask, "Do you wanna work on your drinking?" Right? "So you're mentioning that, you know, your coworkers have said they're worried about your drinking.

Are you worried about your drinking?" "Yes." "Okay. And do you want my help with it? And if so, how do you wanna be helped with it? Do you wanna do this IFS thing? Do you wanna do motivational interviewing? Do you wanna go the 12-step route? Do you wanna do harm reduction?" So I'm always going back to the contract and letting them lead.

That being said, if we start talking about the drinking or the whatever, you might also ask for consent from protectors, right? "So before we start talking about the drinking, can you just check in inside and notice, are there any parts of you that are hesitant to do this or don't wanna do this, or are afraid that doing this could even make [00:03:00] things worse?"

And then you work with those parts, right, first and foremost. 

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The next question, same person from our fan mail, is also wondering if parts have a self, and if they do, uh, if they can extend that energy to other parts. Think like an, a living aunt in the family. Yeah, that's a nice image. Um, gosh, who knows?

Really, who knows? The theory, and of course, uh, all of this is just a theory. IFS is just a theory, meaning it can never be proven that we have parts or that they're real or [00:05:00] that some of them have protective function and some of them don't or whatever. But if you believe it and I believe it, and we believe in the phenomena of, uh, you know, of IFS and of therapy at large, then who cares?

It works. Um, IFS believes and the Dick Schwartzs of the world believe that parts do have self and self qualities inside of them. They have self energy inside of them. They also believe that parts have parts, which starts to break your brain a little bit like infinite rushing nesting dolls, Russian nesting dolls.

Um, so who knows? But parts wanna help and they are all inherently good and they're capable of good. They just are stuck and frozen in these painful roles because of painful life experiences, right? Yeah.

Great question. Oh, a loving aunt in the family. Yeah, a loving aunt. Yeah. Can they extend that energy to other parts? Um, yeah, I would say they can and they [00:06:00] do. And again, in the presence of self, they can and do, but not always, right? And most of the time it comes from self. Okay, we got a question here live.

On that note, what do you advise for someone who thinks they have too many parts and not know where to begin? Well, no one has too many parts. Again, the theory is that everyone is born with all the parts they'll ever have, and that could be anywhere between 10 to 30 parts and you'll never meet all of your parts.

It's like meeting every single feeling you've ever had, every a- aspect of you, right? We're, we're, we're complex. So we just start with that humility and reverence that we're, we're complex. We have many layers. We have many feelings, many parts, right? Now, what they might be saying though is, again, they don't know where to begin or the therapist doesn't know where to begin.

Generally, I just start with the pain points, right? What's bringing them to the work? What's bringing them to therapy? And do-- can we start there? Managers are the ones that bring clients to therapy and they go, "Hey, this [00:07:00] drinking is out of control. We gotta do something about it. Therapy seems like a good idea."

And then they end up, end up on your couch. And they also have parts that are ambivalent or like, "Actually, I'm the one that likes the drinking. I'm not ready to change it, 'cause if I change it, the clien- the client will be swallowed whole by their grief." So in terms of, you know, starting picking a trailhead, I, I, I follow their lead in general, right?

What does it mean to be client-led Well, it means to follow your client. It means to, quote, "Meet them where they are and follow them where they go." What does that actually mean? And what does it mean to you?

Something to think about. Something that we say a lot, right? Without necessarily thinking about, um, what that means or how to do it, right?

Okay. I've got one more pre-written question, and then I need some more questions from you guys who are here live. This question is from Adam. Adam says, "I carry deep shame around a jealous exile, especially toward my younger brother. My protectors fear if the part is seen, I'll be rejected. [00:08:00] How can protectors learn it's safe to witness an exile?"

It, it's a really good question. So imagine if self could be the one to be seen, 'cause you're saying the protectors fear that if the part is seen, I'll be rejected, right? So what if there was a world in which self could be the one to be seen or the totality of you could be seen, you yourself and all your parts, and that you are in fact lovable or just as lovable as anyone else regardless of this, right?

When doing this work, you know, you just need to make sure, Adam, you have a sufficient degree of self-energy, right?

Yeah.

So you're working with these really vulnerable, tender parts, then yeah, a-a-again, y-you really have to go slow, make sure you have lots of self-energy.

Yeah. Protectors will learn that it's safe to witness an exile when there's a lot of you there, right? There's a lot of self there. And when you safely and carefully [00:09:00] and accurately witness this exile and your protector parts notice it and go, "Oh, I guess it is okay. It is possible. Self is here." Yeah. Great.

Uh, we got an ex-extend new, um, a continuation of a question from Jenny Lee, who just joined our Pathways to Self program. That is a great program for anyone that wants to be exploring, um, IFS and exploring the ways in which you can better and deepen your work as a clinician in general. You know, the reality is I, uh, I th- I am gonna help you improve as a clinician In all ways that I can, including IFS, but including everything.

The relationship, working in, in the relationship, in the setting that you're in, working on contracting, working on process comments, working somatically, you name it. So if that's of interest to you, johnclarketherapy.com/pathways. You know, I've been doing this 15-some years, and I've [00:10:00] been a supervisor about 10 of those years, so it's a big, big passion of mine.

But Jenny is saying, um, In Pathways, we talked about a client who is through an EAP. Do we, you know, if the client just has six sessions," Jenny is saying, "do we continue with the model?" Um, yeah, I, I, I would because I would make the argument that IFS is actually one of the most transferable models out there, right?

If, if all you do, quote unquote, is get him thinking about himself in parts during six weeks, would that be a success? Yes. If he also learns some basic skills around unblending during six weeks, would that be a success? Yes. If he just learns about this idea of self-energy, would that be a success, right?

Okay. Uh, Jenny's also saying, "Also, can you say more about the 'don't work harder than your client'?" This is a really big one for me. Okay. Um, [00:11:00] the, the idea here is don't work harder than your clients. And so Jenny says, "But I have a part that says, 'But they're paying me.'" And that part did all caps.

So,

they are pay- what are they paying you for? They're paying you for your presence, your ability to create an experience in the room, to facilitate an experience. They are not paying you for your expertise, your infinite wisdom that they're lacking and then that, that they need to steal some of yours from.

So it's called leading from behind, right? And imagine, uh, this is something my mentor will say, that the two of you are walking down a trail, and you're not out in front of them deciding where to go. You're not completely too far behind them. You're just kind of, like, slightly to the side and slightly behind with a hand on the shoulder, so to speak.

That's [00:12:00] kind of the vibe, right? That's the positionality that I'm talking about.

Just flat out, you know, a good rule of thumb again is don't work harder than your clients. And if you are, slow down, check in with yourself, notice why. Most of us do that because of our core wounding around worth.

In general, I don't want to be operating from my core wounding, AKA I'm triggered and I'm doing therapy from a very triggered place.

Yeah, good question. Okay. Another question. Do you have any programs for people looking to deepen their practice with, with themselves? So yeah, a program for consumers. Gosh, unfortunately, I don't. My recommendation is to go to, you know, your therapist, find a good therapist, maybe, um, yeah, someone with IFS training, maybe someone in person, and maybe to also get involved in some sort of group experience, whether that's, you know, facilitated by a therapist or an IFS therapist, or that's like a, um, a peer-led IFS group or something like that.[00:13:00] 

And I'm sure there's programs online that you can find for this stuff. Okay. Question from Coach Jenny C. Um, the question is, "Hi, John. Can you speak to the timeline of the work? Can you work the model forever, or do you see milestones or destinations of sorts?" Well, I think it's a forever kind of thing.

But that being said, you know, my mentor, Derek Scott, would say that there is a start and an end to IFS. You should graduate them, meaning when a client has developed enough skills to be as self-led as possible, and when life inevitably goes wrong again, they don't have to come running back to their therapist because they can use their skills, right?

The, the ultimate skills of self-leadership, unblending, even un-unburdening your own parts. That being said, it's a journey, right? And it's a lot easier to do this work [00:14:00] with a guide than on your own. We really borrow from their self-energy. We benefit from their self-energy. And so, yeah. But what I'll say about the timeline is it's slower and more tedious than you think it is, right?

It's slower and more tedious than we want it to be, but that's how it should be. Yeah. Go slower than, than you think you should. I know I have a, a habit of going a little too fast.

Cool. Yeah, Jenny says, "Always slower." Yes, thanks for that. Mm-hmm. Yep. Good reminder for all of us.

Cool. So, um, maybe we'll pause there, and we'll pick back up next time. So we'll do this again in two weeks. That'll be May 26. So not next week, but the following. If you wanna put it on your calendar, if it's helpful to come and ask questions like this, that's great. In the meantime, again, if you wanna work with me directly, the best bet is to join [00:15:00] Pathways to Self.

It's my weekly consult group, small group of like-minded clinicians where you can grow in community and have, um, my help every week with your toughest cases and questions. That's johnclarketherapy.com/pathways. Again, johnclarketherapy.com/pathways. Um, if you're looking for therapy in California, you can always go to calmagaincounseling.com to work with one of my associates at my group practice in San Francisco and online in California.

And, um, that's all for now. Thanks for being here, and I'll see you in the next one. Take care, everyone. Bye-bye.

Thanks for listening to another episode of Going Inside. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe wherever you're listening or watching, and share your favorite episode with a friend. You can follow me on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok @johnclarketherapy, and apply to work with me one-on-one at johnclarketherapy.com.

See you next time.