SafeTEA Podcast with Nicola and Deborah
Join hosts Nicola Knobel and Deborah Pitout on 'SafeTea,' a podcast where the conversation about safety gets personal, powerful, and a bit of 'tea' is always spilled! In each episode, Nicola and Deborah dive deep into the world of safety leadership, viewed through the lens of inspiring women in New Zealand and beyond.
At 'SafeTea,' it's not just about policies and procedures; it's about people. Our hosts bring their unique perspectives and experiences to the table, engaging in candid conversations with remarkable women who are reshaping the landscape of safety in their fields. From trailblazing leaders to unsung heroes, each guest brings a wealth of knowledge, experience, and inspiring stories to share.
But 'SafeTea' is more than just interviews; it’s a movement. Nicola and Deborah are here to empower and uplift, turning the spotlight on the achievements, challenges, and insights of women in safety. They delve into topics ranging from overcoming workplace obstacles to the importance of mental health and wellbeing, all while fostering a sense of community and connection.
Whether you're a safety professional, aspiring leader, or simply someone who believes in the power of women's voices, 'SafeTea' is your go-to podcast. So grab a cup of tea and join us for empowering conversations that aim to make a difference, one story at a time.
SafeTEA Podcast with Nicola and Deborah
S1E1: Trailblazing Together: Amplifying Women's Voices in Health, Safety and Wellbeing
Deb and I never imagined that our paths, rooted deeply in environmental science and business administration, would entwine and lead us to become champions for women in the safety space. Yet, here we are, sharing our personal journey's and the profound influence mentorship has had on our lives. Our podcast peels back the layers of our South African heritage and unwraps the serendipity of our meeting in New Zealand—two journeys converging to amplify the voices of women trailblazing through the health and safety industry.
Let's raise the curtain on a world where the stories of women in safety—from the frontlines of retail to the upper echelons of leadership—are not just heard but celebrated. Join us as we illuminate the successes and navigate the complexities of fostering a diverse and inclusive workspace. Our dialogue ventures beyond just our narratives, inviting you to participate in creating a culture that thrives on support and empowerment. With every episode, we aim to inspire and offer practical insights, such as those gleaned from the Whaakari White Island incident, ensuring our listeners are armed with knowledge to make a tangible impact in their careers.
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Well, welcome, deb, and welcome to everyone to our very first episode of Safety, a podcast where we're exploring the experiences and challenges and triumphs of women in the field of health and safety and wellbeing. But this also includes our family of generalists and specialists in their respective fields, and I'm Nicola, your co-host and passionate advocate for diversity and inclusivity in the safety profession.
Speaker 2:Hi, I'm Deb excited to be part of this empowering conversation. Today's episode is not just about women and safety. It's about inclusivity and empowerment of male-dominated fields. Nicola, why is it so important to have these discussions and why are we focusing on women?
Speaker 1:That's a really good question. I think it's crucial to spotlight the experiences of women in safety because they often navigate unique challenges in fields traditionally dominated by men. By having these conversations, we can aim to break down barriers, inspire others and foster a more inclusive environment for everyone, not just for people already in the safety careers, but new graduates, women in schools getting ready to start their career journey.
Speaker 2:Cool sounds awesome. Shall we talk about how we met.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. I feel like that's an interesting story. Did you want to start?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look. I mean, we'd both been in the industry for quite some time and we got to meet at WorkSafe New Zealand. Nicola was the first friendly face that I saw in the office and it was really really good to welcome me and we just hit it off from there and it just our journey and our relationship as friends and I can say really close friends just bloomed.
Speaker 1:I think you know, for us I was so excited that I had kind of someone to join the team because I was the first recruit in the health and safety innovation team at the New Zealand regulator right and it was just so exciting to get someone new on the team and someone that was also a woman. And you know, we'd already done some really cool projects and I just knew that with your energy and your passion, the projects were going to be even more awesome. And you know, it was really nice having someone on the team, you know, when things didn't go well, to talk through and have someone to be able to vent to or celebrate successes and wins with. And I think that's so important, and I think that's probably what sparked this conversation, I guess, is that we want other women to feel that connection and feel that kind of ability to share their successes, their failures and kind of make sure that they're feeling like they're part of something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, couldn't agree more. I think being able to motivate each other is so important to you know, growth in your journey, and I think that woman today there's so many different groups out there, but safety seems to be something that we can really get sink our teeth into and kind of bring women together and be able to share our journey. So, in terms of how you got into safety, what were some of the things that you can share about your journey and what led you to the field of safety?
Speaker 1:That's another really good question and I think it's a bit tricky. I think you know. We should also mention that until we met at WorkSafe, we had both originally come from South Africa and essentially lived down the street from each other for many years.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, we didn't even know it.
Speaker 1:We didn't even know it, which is quite entertaining. But yes, it's been a mix of challenges and triumphs and I think you know I've experienced firsthand how difficult it is to break those stereotypes and proving that gender doesn't define your competence. And you know, dressing nicely or femininely is not something that you know defines how much knowledge you have. So I'm passionate about sharing that to encourage and empower others. I originally started out as an environmental scientist from mine and then kind of moved into health and safety. When I moved to Thailand and started working in the oil and gas industry, I had been recruited over to do some environmental research there as well and then ended up doing a lot of the ISO stuff for this mining contractor and it was really, really awesome.
Speaker 1:Then headed over to Australia again some more mining and health and safety contracting work and then headed over to New Zealand where I am now and same with you, I guess. Tell us a little bit more about you. You've been leading and influencing in safety for a couple of decades. Now Wait, that makes you sound old. Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:No, that's cool. It's been a long time. However, I think that we've got the same backgrounds almost, where you've been quite a trailblazer in your career and we've both been in very male dominated spaces like oil and gas, transport and logistics and steel making. For me, I started my career as had a Bachelor of Business Administration and a banking degree, got that in South Africa, went to work for a transport and logistics company a world renowned transport and logistics company as an executive assistant to the managing director, and then I was kind of thrown into being asked to take the opportunity to lead safety for nine African countries and that included QHSE, so Quality, health, safety and Environment. I got a mentor to help me. Unfortunately he's passed away, but such good value in having him as my mentor and I just ran with it.
Speaker 2:I loved it. I loved every minute. I still do Now in my opportunity that I have in banking and funny story, 360 degrees back to banking. But I'm loving every minute of it and being able to have the opportunity to use human center design practically in safety and in the ISO standards. It's been an amazing opportunity and I just feel like we're going from strength to strength with both of us. I mean, you're an charity organization. We've had so much experience globally. I just think that it just makes for. Why not share our experiences and empower other women to do the same or share our stories?
Speaker 1:Oh, for sure and I think you touched on something really important there as well is the importance of having a mentor. Before I left WorkSafe to head into this charity organization, I was lucky enough to be seconded to the Chief Modi Advisor and that's the Chief Indigenous People's Advisor for any of those people that are not New Zealand based. But I was really lucky and he's essentially become a mentor for me around being really authentic with yourself, being really vulnerable, being a leader that takes into consideration an all-of-person approach to bringing yourself to work, and I think having that mentor space is so important to kind of driving your, or navigating even the path of health and safety in the country that you're in.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Recently I went on a mental me program at ASB and having a mentor for a year even though the person was not in health and safety per se but in risk it really helped me to grow as a leader. And I think you never stop growing as a leader. When people say to me they're in a leader position or a management position, I feel like I'm always learning. I don't know about you, nikola, but really if you don't have a mentor to push you and stretch you, you're never gonna grow.
Speaker 1:So what is some of the work you're doing now, like what are you working on at the minute?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure I'm at ASB as leading health and safety. It's a new position that's been created. We've separated health and safety and well-being, and I lead up the health and safety space. It's given me the opportunity to use human-centered design with my health and safety reps to really empower them to think differently, to ask different questions, to really dig deep to find out what's happening on the ground, and that has really created an environment where people are feeling like they belong, they feel like they can contribute.
Speaker 2:We recently went through our ISO 4501 certification and I can honestly say it was not led by me. It was led by our stakeholders who were involved in various parts of the business, as well as our health and safety reps and the auditor at the time. She was so impressed by the way that she said often what happens is she'll spend all her time with the health and safety manager and it'll be all led by that person, whereas now we truly live and breathe the ISO certification. I'm not saying we're 100% perfect, because we've definitely got improvements and that's what the certification is designed for. However, I think now it's given a platform for our people to have more opportunities from our health and safety reps to really contribute and make a difference in changing culture in the business. So for me that's a very, very exciting journey that we're on and, yeah, it's just going from strength to strength.
Speaker 1:Oh, I was gonna say what are some of the things that kind of suck about your job at the moment, Because it sounds like it's going really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, we've always got challenges. Bringing health and safety into enterprise risk poses some challenges. However, I think it's the right thing to do because it's gonna give us more visibility on health and safety, and I really encourage. And when we talk later on within the podcast and we meet different people, I guess what I'm really thinking about is the benefits around that. Although there are quite a bit of challenges that you'll need to overcome, I think it's a great opportunity to bring more visibility to health and safety and have a space at the table, at the top table, to really get into risk management rather than just health and safety. So for me, yes, there are challenges, although it sounds all rosy. However, as you know, just as you are very passionate about what I do, and I think that's what makes for interesting leadership, I suppose.
Speaker 1:So, yes, I'm at Fano Athena Plunkett. I head up the oh my God, I feel like my title is always so long. I feel like my title is longer than what it should be right. But I head up the health, safety, wellbeing and enterprise risk team, which is phenomenal. I've got an amazing group of women and what's really interesting for me and I think that's what kind of filled our conversation as well is Fano Athena Plunkett is a very unique organization with a high proportion of women in the organization, which is kind of uncharacteristic. Right, you've got a very low number of men in the organization and it's just really interesting.
Speaker 1:And I think you know you would assume you know, when you read there's a book called Behind Frenemy Lines and you would assume that there's this kind of in house kind of I wanna say bitchiness, you know, but it's not like that at all. You know everybody's really supportive and empowering and engaging. My manager's absolutely phenomenal. She is just probably one of the best managers I think I've ever had and I feel really lucky in that environment, in a charity space, though I'm going to say that it's probably the most challenging job I've ever had in my life. It's really challenging having no funding to do anything, especially when you have innovative ideas or things that you want to develop. It then really comes down to influence and leadership, right, as you're influencing people to do things essentially for free, over and above their day job. So you know there's a lot of it's tough. It's tough but I am enjoying every minute of it and I feel, you know, in New Zealand, whanau of Whina Plankett is such a huge part of so many people's lives. You know people understand it.
Speaker 2:A bit, yeah, and the thing is, I think one of the big things or one of the big risks critical risks that we both share is aggressive behaviour, and it seems to be getting worse and worse, and I know a lot of companies in retail or front facing are really experiencing that. That's something that you guys have got a big challenge on too, I would imagine.
Speaker 1:Oh for sure, and I'd say that it's probably. You know, the one thing that keeps me up at night is thinking about our staff going into risky situations and trying to find the best way to keep them as safe as possible in every single one of those situations and keep them informed and aware and, you know, working with them as closely as possible so that we understand that, again, human centric design, right is you're finding solutions that actually work for our people. We aren't just telling them what to do like, oh, naughty, naughty, don't go in there. That doesn't work. That's not how safety should work. And you know, I think for the both of us, I feel like we both challenge the status quo, right is? They're like, oh, this is how it should work, and we're like, nah, nah.
Speaker 2:For sure. I'm thinking this sounds like a good topic for one about podcasts.
Speaker 1:So let's keep that in the back pocket, keep it in them, keep it in. So tell me a little bit more about this podcast, dave, that we have started. Tell me what we're doing.
Speaker 2:I guess, as you've mentioned, we really want to support women in safety, whether you're starting out in your journey or whether you're sitting at the head table. I guess it's all about not just talking about our challenges. We're really celebrating our achievements and sharing our success stories. Stories are just so, so important and I think people can relate to those so much better than just seeing a PowerPoint presentation. I guess our goal is going to be to inspire not only women, but everyone working in safety to contribute to a culture where diversity is embraced. I guess we will be inviting some special guests, which is exciting. We've really earmarked some of them, which I'm very excited about, and we've got a wide, diverse range of people, which is good. We also want to look at who's made some significant contributions to the field. Let's get those stories out there and share those insights. How can people practically apply some of the theoretical stuff? We see a lot of that today in different books or podcasts or webinars. However, I think there's a bit of a niche here in terms of how do we practically apply some of the good work that's happening out there? I think that's what we really want to share and give people takeaways.
Speaker 2:What can you go and do differently, do better, do together. How can we make changes? We know we have a long way to go in New Zealand to change culture. However, I don't think it's a. It's not an easy task, but if we can bite off small chunks, wow, that would be amazing. So what is your feelings? What do you hope to get out of it, nicola?
Speaker 1:One of the things I was just thinking of now is I would also love for us to talk through some of the cases as well that come through, especially those that are like a little courier. So, just as a little bit of context, I'm currently studying law, because why not? When you get to a part of your safety career and you decide that it's a good idea to keep studying, why not? Let's just choose law as the topic. I'm a little obsessed with safety cases. I find them fascinating and I especially find you know, as an example, our Focardi White Island case, which has been going on for since 2019, absolutely tragic situation where a number of people lost their lives and now we're kind of getting to the end of that investigation and the closure of those cases, which has been really, really, really interesting For me. I'd love for us to touch on some of those and take away some really good opportunities for improvement or things people can again practically do that they can kind of take back to their place and talk about. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's really a good idea For those who are in safety law and are listening to us out there. You know who you are. You know we've got some quite some good specialists out there that can probably fill some of those gaps. That will be an awesome one.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's going to be really interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess we don't want to take more of your time, but really this is our welcome and we're really keen to hear from you, so yeah, yeah, and you know, in the comments you know or not even in the comments, but in the show notes we'll have a link for you to be able to kind of sign up to our newsletter. It would be amazing if you could subscribe and leave us a review, because reviews is what gets the word out there, but we'll have a newsletter that you guys can subscribe to. I should you know what I shouldn't say you guys, because this is a podcast focus on you folks and it'll be really interesting to kind of start the conversations with people. You can find us on LinkedIn. You'll be able to find us wherever podcasts are available to you and then this coming up soon we're also going to have a discussion around how to use chat GPT in safety as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's going to be exciting. We've got some exciting papers coming up which, just if you connect with us, we can share. And yeah, I just want to say that this is global, this is not just in New Zealand. We want to really get out to the global market. We know that there's women out there who are making amazing differences and changes, which is really having an effect on how safety is behaving globally. We still have a way to go in New Zealand, but I think we can get there if we just kind of pull our resources and get together.
Speaker 1:How often do you think we'll release an episode, Deb? What are you feeling?
Speaker 2:Let's see how we go if we get an overwhelming amount. We're just putting it out there. If you've got any kind of topics that you want us to talk about, whether it be in the generalist field or the occupational therapy field or occupational hygienist, we really want to open it up.
Speaker 1:So just depends on how many people we can get. Yeah, for sure. Oh, sounds good, Awesome. Well, I am looking forward to releasing our first episode with you and we look forward to continuing this conversation on from LinkedIn. Come along for the ride with everyone else. Please See you soon.
