Will Power Podcast by Will Humphreys

Stop Losing Money: 2027 CPT Changes & Audit Protection with Rick Gawenda

• Will Humphreys • Season 3 • Episode 25

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Episode Summary

Are you leaving money on the table because of "fear-based" billing? Live from the Growth Code Conference, host Will Humphreys sits down with the industry’s foremost expert on reimbursement and compliance, Rick Gawenda, President of Gawenda Seminars & Consulting, Inc.

In this episode, Rick strips away the fluff to discuss the massive regulatory shifts coming to Physical, Occupational, and Speech Therapy. From the looming 2027 Speech Therapy CPT code overhaul to the "when, not if" reality of audits, Rick explains how to protect your license while ethically maximizing your revenue. If you’ve ever worried about a government shutdown affecting telehealth or felt guilty about your profit margins, this conversation is your roadmap to financial clarity and clinical peace of mind.

Key Takeaways

  • 35 Years of Expertise -Rick shares his journey from physical therapist to a leading consultant and legal expert witness. He discusses his role in helping therapists stay out of "legal jail" and keep their licenses secure.
  • The Hard Truth About Rehab Margins - Why the therapy business is tougher than the restaurant industry. Rick explains how inflation has risen 43% since 2010, while many payers are actually paying less than they did 15 years ago.
  • Documentation & The "When" of Audits - Rick previews his Growth Code sessions, focusing on high-level documentation from eval to discharge. 
  • Breaking News: 2027 Speech Therapy Changes - Rick reveals (within NDA limits) the massive shift coming for SLPs: CPT code 92507 is being deleted in 2027 and replaced by 10 new timed units. This will fundamentally change how pediatric speech therapy is reimbursed.
  • The "Top 5" Strategy - Feeling overwhelmed by 200 different insurance carriers? Rick explains the Pareto Principle of billing: Focus on the 5–7 payers that make up 85% of your volume to stay 100% compliant.
  • The "Over-Documentation" Trap - Why new grads often under-bill but over-document, and how extra "fluff" in your notes can actually be used against you in court.
  • When Does Therapy Actually Begin? A game-changing tip for providers: Therapy starts the moment you greet the patient in the waiting room. Rick explains how to capture those "lost" minutes of assessment and education as billable time.
  • Financial Transparency & Staff Retention - How sharing metrics and "Tuesday Huddles" creates a culture of leadership. Rick and Will discuss the true cost of an employee (30–35% above salary) and how to explain this to staff to align goals.

Connect with Rick Gawenda

About the Host & Sponsor

  • Will Humphreys: Speaker, coach, and founder of the Will Power Podcast. https://www.virtualrockstar.com/will
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Live From Growth Code

SPEAKER_00

This is the Willpower Podcast live at the Growth Code Conference. No scripts, no fluff, just real conversations with rehab owners in the room, sharing what's working right now. Today I'm joined by Rick Gowinda, founder of the Gowinda Seminars and Consulting, diving into documentation, CPT coding, reimbursement strategy, regulatory changes, and I promise you, all done in an entertaining way. It's gonna blow your mind. This is how we're gonna maximize your practice in an era of constant payment reform. Here we go. Rick, thank you so much for being on the Willpower podcast here at Growth Code. It is so exciting to have you on the show. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Man, it I've seen you talk so many times, and it seems like the coolest thing with your expertise is that what you talk about is constantly evolving and changing. So for the very few human beings who don't know who you are, share a little bit about your expertise.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. So uh my name is Rick Gwenda, I'm a physical therapist. It's hard to believe it'd be 35 years this fall. So we're looking forward to our 35-year reunion. But uh for about the last 24 years, have had my company Gwen Seminars and Consulting, where I kind of specialize in outpatient physical, occupational, and speech therapy in terms of you know documentation, CPT coding, billing, productivity, kind of revenue enhancement. And then over the last probably five, six, seven years, uh getting more involved with I guess I'll call quote legal issues and licensure issues where therapists and assistants kind of get into trouble with the licensing board or perhaps the Medicare program, and you know, so now attorneys retain me as a kind of an expert to help their clients maybe uh, you know, keep the license and all the scary stuff. Not go to jail, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00

That's I didn't know you were doing that now. And it's so interesting because it does bleed so beautifully with what you're known for. It seems to me like you're tackling all the really scary stuff that a private practice owner doesn't understand about owning a business.

SPEAKER_02

Correct. I mean, none of us that are physical therapists, OTs or SLPs went to school to open up a business. You know, we we kind of evolve into that, and none of us went to school to be a a consultant or hospital administrator. So, you know, as you start your business, I think we're just so focused on trying to grow the business, the marketing, et cetera. But then how do you stay up to date with all the regulatory and payment issues that unfortunately are different with every insurance carrier?

Why Reimbursement Feels So Hard

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's just it's constantly evolving like we were talking about just a second ago. Um you you feel very passionate to me about this. What why are you so passionate about helping owners in this way?

SPEAKER_02

Because it's tough. I mean, you know, the joke out there that the restaurant business is tough with small margins. I think the therapy business is also tough. And I think if you look at it over the last 15 to 17 years, you look at how inflation, you know, I think they say about a dollar back in 2010, you now need a dollar forty-three now. So just as you look at the inflation, the cost to do business, but yet unfortunately with some payers, we're actually being paid less today than we were back in 2010. And you know, there are people that do things, quote, wrong. They're not doing it intentionally wrong, they just don't know. Right. So, you know, how do we educate them so that they're gonna be around? You know, obviously we're at the growth conference, we're dealing with pediatrics. Yes. I have three granddaughters, a fourth one on the way. Yes. You know, so if they ever, you know, if they needed therapy, I want therapists to be there. Me, I'm getting up there myself, uh getting close to Medicare age. I hope I never need therapy, but if we do, you know, we want therapists to be there and open and available and have options where to go.

SPEAKER_00

It's almost when we all become clinicians, when we all become healthcare providers, none of us ever go into it because we're passionate about reimbursement. Like it we never think about that element of it. And it is such a complex part of our business that so when we jump in, I remember being tearful, upset about like worrying about like, my gosh, am I gonna get audited and go to jail for doing things I didn't even know I was was or wasn't doing. As an owner, I got a lot more education around it, but it was still one of the greatest fears that I had was this idea of like, I don't know all that I don't know because it's constantly evolving.

SPEAKER_02

No, and I agree. Because there are times I you know do the initial call where people contact me to check in about my services and how I can help them. And one of the you know, one of the things I say is when they ask me, well, what do I need to know? My response is, well, I don't know what you know. I don't know what you don't know. Right. Uh so you know there there are common mistakes that people make and you try to educate as best you can. No, you're gonna probably make some mistakes. And again, none of us, as we said, went into therapy school to own a business.

SPEAKER_00

Right. You know, it's so cool being here with you at Growth Code too. This is one of my favorite events of any. I say sometimes it's the best in the industry because anything PTOT or SLP related, this is probably one of the greatest downloads of information. It's overwhelming how well it's run, it's four days. Um, what are you speaking on?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I need to do uh two sessions. Uh one, we're gonna kind of do a high-level documentation, so kind of from the initial valve through discharge, because unfortunately, uh insurers are back on the uh medical record reviews in the audit, especially in the pediatric population. So we're gonna go through the necessities of documentation to uh you know, hopefully give you the tools that you need so you can self-audit that, and I don't say if you get audited, it's when you get audited. I mean, at some point, insurance companies are gonna request records from you. Sure. You know, can you pass the audit? And then we'll do another session kind of given all the regulatory payment updates for uh 2026. Okay. And as you know, you and I are doing this podcast right now, you know, we have a government shutdown uh looming here, and uh there's some key provisions we need passed here, you know, to keep telehealth going under the Medicare program. Obviously, I know we're at growth code, which is pediatrics, but you know, many state Medicaid programs, commercial payers, they kind of follow what Medicare is doing.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

So we need some stuff to get passed by the government here and uh you know we'll g give some updates. And uh we've also got some big changes coming to speech therapy in 2027.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I've heard.

SPEAKER_02

They're going to timed units, I heard. That's about all I can say, but you know, I'm not being elusive. It's just I've got NDA signed with the AMA.

SPEAKER_00

So uh you have NDA signed with the AMA. I think if you made it because of when you have that kind of relationship with the AMA.

SPEAKER_02

Well, no, anybody could have it. It's you know, it's just when they went through the process to bring these new codes in 2027. You can, you know, you can listen in on the meetings and get all the handouts and all that discuss, but by doing so you sign an NDA where you can't discuss anything until it becomes publicly available. Right. So the only thing we I can say publicly is in 2027, 92507 is being deleted, replaced with 10 new CPT codes for speech. Wow.

Planning For 2027 Speech Codes

SPEAKER_00

So lots of changes going on. Yeah. Um so if someone who's a PT, OT, or an SLP leader or or business owner, uh what would you say the top three things they should be aware of right now? Obviously you can't share in great detail, but what would you say the top three things are they should be aware of uh with the most recent changes?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean I think number one, just knowing that in January 2027 with the speech therapy CPT code changes coming, uh, you know, more information will become available in July. We'll see what Medicare is gonna do in terms of payment. Then how do you take what Medicare is doing with payment and kind of kind of quote guesstimate what your state Medicaid's gonna do, your blue cross, etna signa, you know, how's that gonna change all your reimbursement in 2027?

SPEAKER_00

So it does change all the reimbursement across all the commercial payers as well.

SPEAKER_02

I think you're gonna see significant decrease in in reimbursement for uh because again, a lot of you know pediatric SLPs do 30-minute sessions. Right. So I think you're gonna you know see that reimbursement for a 30-minute session decrease significantly. So how do you then plan for that when you're doing your 2027 budget? But also how's that gonna impact what you can pay an SLP or an SLP assistant if you're able to use them? So I think that's you know, number one. Uh you know, number two, I think, is just trying to stay current with all the regulatory and payment changes from the various insurers.

SPEAKER_00

There's just many. There's too many to mention.

SPEAKER_02

And what I tell people is, you know, when we had our practices and all that, you know, we probably dealt with 200, 300 different insurers. But what I tell practices is what are your top five, six, seven insurers that maybe make up 80, 85% of your visits? Right. Keep up to date with them. You know, create that Aetna photo, that Signer photo, that Blue Cross photo, whatever, you know, check the websites monthly, download policies. Because if you can follow those five, six, seven payers and be compliant with all their rules and regs, you're probably gonna be okay with all the ones you don't know.

SPEAKER_00

Well, that's nice. It's that Prieta's law still applies. You know, 20% they say of what we know produces 80% of the results. So in that case, if you can get those six, seven, that's like the twenty percent that hopefully will cascade across the other ones to some degree or not. Right. Correct.

SPEAKER_02

And the key word being hope. I mean, you always have that outlaw, I gotta disclose that as we're doing a podcast, we'll be quick set up. I'm gonna be okay with all the other payers, you know, obviously you hope. And then the third one, uh, just as people, you know, practices, you know, they pay money for marketing, they pay money for HR, etc. You know, if you need to use a consultant, pay the money. You know, I'd I'd rather have and if I'm not the person, I'll tell you go talk to this person, but you know, why not pay an hour or two hours of consulting to make sure you're doing things right? Because the motto of I didn't know won't help you with an insurer, it won't help you with the government.

SPEAKER_00

Right. It might be make the difference between you know the intent of when you're sued, not sued, but when you're looked at. But here's the thing I love how you're mentioning it. Like, why wouldn't you invest in someone or something that would help you get clear on these elements to make sure that you're safe? But I would also throw in there to actually actually maximize what you can get. Because one of the things I've loved about you, Rick, for my whole career, especially when I had my five locations, is that your message wasn't fear-based. Our industry is so fear-based. It's like in college, your license is your livelihood. They kick you right in the gut, right with that. Like if you mess up, you're going to jail. And what I have always felt from your messages is like, hey, we're going to talk about this from a place of maximizing reimbursement for what you should be getting. And by doing that and focusing on maximizing that ethically, you are then protecting yourself from the dangers that are out there for sure.

SPEAKER_02

And that's very kind of you say, and it's probably one of the comments I've gotten from other people that I don't do the scare factor because again, I think while trying to do it right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, we are, quote, trying to maximize reimbursement, you know, legally and ethically, so we can stay open to take care to take care of the pediatrics to the adults, to the geriatrics, but you have to make money uh to be open. And you know, some people say they feel sorry, we don't I feel guilty charging patients, etc., but that's the way you stay open to then take care of them.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, it's interesting because the typical student, and not all, I think they're getting better, but especially for the last 20 years of my experiences, the typical new graduate will come into the PTOT SLP space from a place of like, all right, I'm not here for the money. I am going to um underbill for what I do if I'm not sure, because heaven forbid I overbill. So there's this kind of like, because they're not educated, they will tend to underbill. But then they tend to over-document, which is interesting, because the one case that I ever had in my company that went to a state board, the over-documentation was what got us in trouble. Like she was detailing all these elements, and they were like, wait, you said this, let's get into that rabbit hole. So there's a balance in those things, isn't there?

SPEAKER_02

There is, and then Agile use is as a witness on the witness stand. So you know, when I get to go to court and I'm you know testifying, now obviously if the attorney that has that has retained me, when he or she's asking me questions, you know, I'm gonna be more quote talkative and give the answers. When I go under cross by the opposing attorney, it's you answer the question and you just wait for the next question. And sometimes the attorney would just be there quiet and I'm just sitting there quiet because he or she's just hoping that the quietness makes me feel awkward to then keep on blabbing.

SPEAKER_00

Oh man.

SPEAKER_02

That's me in a sense. I think it's the same thing with the notes. You don't want to be too wordy and all that, but you just want to be succinct and to the point.

Proving Medical Necessity In Notes

SPEAKER_00

Wow. Is there any other documentation-based recommendations you can give to our audience that might be either just the important ones you have to remember or even newer things that have come up that they should be aware of?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I mean, I think when I look at you know denials now, I think we don't do a good job in the industry vow. You know, we're not really documenting why the the patient needs us for for therapy services. So, you know, what has changed with this patient? Obviously, we're here at growth conference with pediatrics, you know, what's a child lagging behind in developmentally? So, you know, they're six months of age, what should they be doing, what are they not doing, that kind of stuff. So we're gonna do a good job showing the difference between, you know, here's what they should be doing, here's where they're at, and that gap, the change between, you know, being at the forehead of here's what I should be doing, but you know, they're down at the chest of functioning down here, it's that it's that gap. That's that's a decline, that's a change in function we gotta try to improve. So that you know, a writing function-based goals, and probably the biggest thing I know we could talk for hours on this, is on the daily note. We always do a great job documenting what the patient did in therapy that day. Right. As a therapist or assistant, we don't do a good job documenting what we did for that child or for that patient that day in terms of the verbal instruction, verbal correction, technique correction, posture correction, because that's what we're being paid for.

SPEAKER_00

I'm guessing this is where a lot of people devaluate them or devalue themselves accidentally and underbill is because they're only documenting what they did and they see that as like that's what they bill for, but they don't take into account the family education, they don't take into account those elements. And so when they're not trained properly and they don't know how to value what they do, they end up undervaluing, which undervalues not just their their company, but the entire industry.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I think you know, the NADI I use is, you know, if I ask you when does therapy begin? You know, therapy begins when I come get you in the waiting room. Yes. And I'm bringing you back as a patient, or I'm bringing, you know, your daughter or son back, and I'm now asking, you know, how'd you figure out the last therapy visit, how the exercise is going at home, how's this, how's that?

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Well, that three, four, five minute conversation, that's assessment time. Right. That's billable time. Because then that's going to help me decide what to do with you today, what not to do with you today, what to change today.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

Billing The Right CPT Code

SPEAKER_02

Well, that four or five minutes of time, could that have got you to that third unit? Could have got you to that fourth unit.

SPEAKER_00

Because we're down to minutes. I mean, it's sometimes just a two to three minute differential.

SPEAKER_02

It is that that costs you maybe twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven dollars or more.

SPEAKER_00

Over hundreds of visits a year. Like it's just it adds up so fast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That and then just building the wrong code. You know, obviously as you look from therapeutic activity to neuro read to therapeutic exercise, those payers that pay on a per CPT group basis, they pay differently.

SPEAKER_00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

And I see so many PTs and PTAs, you know, we just lump everything under Thereks. Right. Well, under Medicare, Thereks pays, you know, twenty-eight, twenty-nine dollars. Therapeutic activities is paying thirty-five, thirty-six, thirty-seven. So if you truly are working on functional activities, but you're lumping everything under the wrong code, sometimes the way you make more money is not by working harder. It's not by seeing more patients building more units, it's just billing the right CPT code based on your documentation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Rockstars, I want to just hit really hard what Rick said, because I think so many times we get into the traps as leaders and owners of just increasing volume as the primary lever. That's just one of many levers. But why wouldn't we hyper focus on maximizing what we're already doing first? And it goes beyond um billing and coding and understanding documentation, but I would say that's the biggest like confusion gap for us is those areas. Then it goes into like learning how to manage schedules efficiently to balance provider retention with maximum production. Yeah. But it really begins there. And we don't address it because we don't know how to get help.

Budgets Metrics And Team Transparency

SPEAKER_02

I agree. Uh I think that and and many practices don't set budgets. Yes. Uh you know, they they don't you talk to them in January and go, okay, show me your budget for the year. And it's gonna give the deer in the head a lot, look, I go budget, you know, B U D G T. Uh well, we don't have a budget. Okay, well show me last year's numbers. Yeah, we don't have that either. You know, so a lot of small practices, you know, they they don't know how to do quick books and run P and O statements and all that. But like you said, you're not make you're not losing money just on one thing, usually. There's multiple things that's causing you to be in the red and you're not in the black just for one thing. You're doing multiple things right to be in the black. But you I think you need to have statistical data. Yes. But you need to have budgets and try to meet those budgets.

SPEAKER_00

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think we also need to share information with staff. Yeah. I think I think practices, you know, you don't need to send share all the PL stuff, but we had our practices, we had the quote the Tuesday huddle. And the Tuesday huddle from the week before, we would say, okay, here were the metrics, here's how we did. And so the the team knew how they did the previous week, which then, you know, as you're going forward might explain why we why you did get a bonus this month, why you didn't get a bonus this month if you're doing profit share and things like that.

SPEAKER_00

What's brilliant about that, Rick, is how that not only educates them and makes them more of a leader, which by the way creates retention because they feel like they're being invested in, they feel like there's transparency, but it also eliminates so many of those confusion, confusing, time-sucking talks that we have with people who are like, hey, why am I not getting paid? Why can't I get a raise? When they see the numbers, they don't feel the need to go do research and get misinformation regarding like what the average physical therapist or OT or SLP is making, and then come back and be like, well, I should be making 20 grand more. It's like, no, they see the P ⁇ Ls, they're getting retained, and they're solving problems that you're gonna face as a leader.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I think one thing universities need to do better, uh, maybe APTA, AOT Asha at large conferences have a session on, you know, what is the true cost of an employee? Yeah. So I think, you know, and I'll just pick on PT since I'm a PT. You know, a lot of PTs when they graduate, I get to DPT programs, I get your six figures in debt, and I get understand you want ninety, ninety-five, a hundred thousand dollars to start. Coming out of school.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right. It's probably not gonna happen. If it does happen, you're gonna be working your tail off. Right. But what people don't understand is if they're making eighty thousand, what's it really costing your employer? Right. And typically, you know, we're adding on about thirty, thirty-five percent onto that for benefits. For benefits. Uh, people don't understand that when I give you a paycheck every two weeks, I'm paying the employer taxes to the government, you know, all of that. So that$80,000 I'm paying you, um, you probably cost me maybe$105,000 in there somewhere. Plus, you know, Susie at the front desk. I love Susie. She doesn't generate income. But we need Suzy. Right. But we have to pay for Suzy.

SPEAKER_00

And that comes from something.

SPEAKER_02

And that and that comes from you doing visits. So people think, well, you know, if I do six visits a day, it makes up my salary and benefits, and you get 15, 20 percent. But they don't think about the heat, no, the AC, utilities, SUSE, the PTAid, things like that. So I think we need to do a better job explaining the actual cost to run a practice and all that.

Training Options And Membership Resources

SPEAKER_00

So you cover all these things. So Gowenda Seminars and Consulting provides a lot of different services to help actually fill this gap. And I don't actually know of another better service. And this isn't meant to be like promotional, even though it's starting to sound that way. I'm pervasive one of my friends told me I'm pervasively uh salesy about things that I love.

SPEAKER_02

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_00

But I love what you do because again, it's a lifeblood, it's such an affordable, clear ROI that not only helps like increase your income, but actually helps people sleep better at night. So talk about how you help people in that regard.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so I think the the nice business model we've set up at all is quote a la carte. So you try to have different packages or different things depending on your needs and your your funds. So we do have a website membership service that has three different levels of membership, but all three levels get you access to all the written content on my website. So it's constantly updated, yes? Yes, I publish about one to three new articles per week under Current News. Oh my gosh. And I know when I first started this, you know, one of my nicknames I was given around the country was Mr. Medicare. And then people realize I'm just not Medicare. You know, I talk on commercial payers and Medicaid and pediatrics, things like that. So, you know, my website is from Pediatrics to geriatrics for P T O T S L P, you know, all this content can apply to you. So I've got current news articles, I've got over thirty different topics on frequently asked questions where you get the answers the most common questions, and then you know, we do webinars, we have webinar packages.

SPEAKER_00

Then I do consulting. You will meet with practices.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I meet with practices. You know, we do a lot of consulting, you know, phone calls, Zoom, Microsoft Teams, and then for some of the larger practices, they'll bring me in on site and we'll do like an all-day on-site training session for their staff where 40, 50, 60, 80 therapist assistants, I'll do an eight hour talk on co CPT coding, building documentation, and this way your staff all hears the same thing.

SPEAKER_00

And changes how they see money. I think if we can help them understand, most people, when they understand it, they just get it and they immediately start producing better, coding more accurately, getting more money. Yeah. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and I think it's just changing the mindset. You know, I I think it's making sure that the as a I call them kids since I'm getting up their age as they're coming out of school. That these owners are not, quote, greedy. You know, it's not funny.

SPEAKER_00

They think they're like walking home with all this money. We're in the lowest margin business in healthcare and they think we're going home rich.

SPEAKER_02

Correct.

SPEAKER_00

So I think it's making how you know, what can you share with them?

SPEAKER_02

How can you educate them so they see this? But also, and I know I think there's a talk here at Growth Code, you know, changing the payment structures.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And so if you do want to make that hundred thousand coming out, well, there's a give and take. We're gonna give you maybe a lower base, but if you hit these thresholds in terms of visits and units, you win, I win, we both win. So a lot of it's set up, in my opinion, the kind of the wrong way where the owner has all the risk. Right. The the therapist who gets a guaranteed salary has no risk.

SPEAKER_00

It's funny because um when I was starting my practice, I had a a coach who was a chiropractor, but he evolved into owning multiple hospitals in Arizona. So he oversaw like surgeons, physical therapy departments, and he was just a genius. He was telling me he's like, uh chiropractors are trained to think like entrepreneurs, whereas PTs, OTs, and SLPs aren't. But he says that chiropractors are trained, so when they're coming out of school, they want the low salary, high profit sharing because they know they can control their income. I think because PTs haven't been exposed to that and OTs and SLPs, that they come into the industry thinking that that's some sort of like weird risk. But what happens is uh because uh things are are created that way, everyone can win so much more. I believe what you just said is true, and I have for years. If we could get into a profit sharing model with our PTs, OTs, and SLPs, we would solve so many organic problems with how people view money because they would be tied to it. So if they have someone like you in their corner and they're able to communicate that to their teams and then show their numbers in a way that's transparent without showing everything, because there's there's a lot of education that goes into that. But if they can understand the 20% that gets them 80% of the way there, they'll be free to really control their future, which is what we want.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and you have the checks and balances because again, when you do have these incentive programs, the different payment structures that kind of incentivize your payment based on visits, units, and all that. You do need to have your checks and balances to make sure you're not overbilling documentation still there, ethical and all that.

SPEAKER_00

That's amazing. Yeah. So as people are listening, they're probably wondering how do they find out more about Gwenda Seminars and Consulting. How do you how do they get hold of that information? What and we'll put it whatever you want in the show notes, but just right now, if you want to put a plug in, I'd appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. So website will just be you know www.goendaseminars.com. Uh my email is Rick, just R I C K at Gowendaseminars.com, and I'll give you my phone number. You can call me 661-6451490. And people are amazed because they'll answer the phone and I'll get silent and they'll go, is this Rick? I go, Yes. They go, I don't think you'd answer. Well, I go, you called me.

SPEAKER_00

It is so it's my phone number. Amazing with your brand that you're so accessible. Like it's it's a really cool. It's on brand for you, actually.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it is. No, and I uh people are amazed I give my personal phone number. But I figured you want to talk to me and why give you another number that uh a receptionist has to then take a message, relay it to me, call you back. Just call me. If I don't answer, leave me a message, I will call you back.

AI Notes And Rapid Fire Fun

SPEAKER_00

Rick, so awesome. Okay, let's do some rapid fire questions to wrap things up. I love that. Okay. Um your your quick take on AI note takers as it pertains to your expertise.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh, you know, AI, I'm all for it. I think we just have to be careful because as much as the practices now are getting into AI, insurers are too as well. So uh I think you just gotta be careful that every note does not sound the same, and you've got to make it uh unique to that patient. That's being my quick advice.

SPEAKER_00

Got it. Love that. I'm sure that could be another episode, by the way. Yep. Um what is a book that you've read that you love to recommend to people?

SPEAKER_02

This is this is gonna be sad. I don't read books, believe it or not. Because you're too busy reading articles on changes in healthcare. Yeah, reading healthcare policies and CMS manuals. And uh, you know, right now as we're doing this talk, we got that impending uh government shutdown. So I've been reading uh the the legislation and all of that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Let's agree with that.

SPEAKER_02

I do have to do better on books. I do I do agree with that.

SPEAKER_00

I actually you know what's funny, um Gary V, he's a big like he hates books. He won't read them. And I will tell you that like for me, I struggle with podcasts, which is so funny because this is a podcast, but it's it's a matter of like where we consume content, and obviously you've got your own methodology. But what would be something what do you do for entertainment? Is there a is there a movie that you like? Totally like not like just something that you like that you saw recently. Is there anything like that?

SPEAKER_02

Okay, well, uh this is gonna either make the ladies happy and the guys think I'm weird. Uh it's with my wife who you've met, Michelle. You know, it's it's her and I watch just watching a Hallmark movie, the rom com. Um dude, rom coms are so underrated.

SPEAKER_00

We might be losing half my audience right now, but I will tell you, like, I missed the days of like legitimately funny rom-coms like Notting Hill. Like, those were some of my favorite movies.

SPEAKER_02

That's actually one of my wife's favorites. Yep. And of course, her favorite is a notebook.

SPEAKER_00

Well, yeah. So uh that definitely for me trans goes a little bit further into that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's not a rom-com, that's a touching story. But yeah, it's actually just her and I sitting watching, you know, the the Hallmark Christmas movies, or right now you got the Valentine's Day ones coming out, and just sitting there is just it's a feel good. I mean, you know, you know how it's gonna end. You pretty well know they're breaking up about an hour and 37 minutes into the movie, but you know, it's just one of those things where just I don't know.

SPEAKER_00

I get you. It's just that. You know what it is? It's positive. It is positive. But I think it's weird in a world where like horror movies are dominating and coming out like on a weekly basis. It's nice to have something that's just like uplifting regardless of where it sources. Okay, what about travel? Where's somewhere you've been or are going that um you're excited about?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so one of the I think one of my favorite trips my wife and I just did back in 23 was Iceland. Really? We did. We did Iceland in the summer of 2023, so I I just loved it. Probably one of my favorite places I've been.

SPEAKER_00

It's a bucketless place for me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's great. I recommend you go there. And then uh I plan I just got done, well, I shouldn't say I got done planning, but my wife and I are going uh this September to uh Kenya in South Africa to do safaris and all that for a bunch of days and then headed down to Cape Town for whale watching and fine wine and food.

The Mission And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I I have been to those places and you are gonna love it so much. Cape Town is one of my favorite cities on earth. Yep, that's it. It is such a special place. Awesome. Okay, final question. All right. You know, this is I I I never take for granted how this is out there in the world, right? There's a uh your your descendants, you have six daughters.

SPEAKER_02

Six daughters.

SPEAKER_00

Four great sorry, four granddaughters.

SPEAKER_02

Three granddaughters, fourth one is due in May.

SPEAKER_00

All girls. All girls. So they're they're gonna be watching this one day. Uh oh. What would you want them to know about why you're so passionate about this? From the because like you know, PTs, you could talk about why it's hard and all that. But what do you want them to know why you took this stand the way that you're doing?

SPEAKER_02

Boy, you know, I I think it's just something I just believed in. And you know, I I've our daughters, uh, five of them are already graduated. Uh the sixth one graduates this May, so we have six out of college. Wow. Uh so I think my wife and I are are very proud of all six of the girls getting, you know, college degrees and all that. So but we were we said to each one, you don't go into school, don't pick a degree because of the money potential. You have to love what you do. And you know, again, I did not go to PT school to do what I'm doing now.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Uh people always ask how I got into it, and the quick story is our hospital back in 19, I think, '99 got on a hundred percent Medicare review. My director didn't know how to do it, whatever, so I took the charge, took me a year and a half. Wow. I just fell in love with the process. Because I think for me, it's it's always changing. Yeah. The rules are changing, the game is changing, and I I love the game. And I you know, I love to try to beat the insurance company, and you know, and I just love that the practices, because again, you know, at some point I may need therapy. We have family that's use therapy, whether P, T, O, T, S L P, and we need these practices to be around. And it's it's tough, it's a low profit margin. I just love what I do. I wake up every day and uh I um I enjoy what I do.

SPEAKER_00

You know, Rick, that was what a beautiful way to wrap it up. I want to um tell the girls as well. Michelle and the girls, as who I love, by the way, Michelle's amazing. Shout out to Michelle.

SPEAKER_02

Um Michelle, she's definitely my better three-quarters. People say better half, she's the better three-quarters.

SPEAKER_00

That's so amazing. I want the girls to know, you know, how you have impacted the industry. And I mean this. I met you so long ago, I think I saw you spoke when I was out of school for maybe three or four years, and I've been in PT for a long time. Okay. And you, again, you're you're a light in the darkest part of our industry and and in our space, physical therapy, occupational therapy, and speech, no, they are the most passionate leaders and business owners of any healthcare group because they aren't, there's no real financial incentive to go into this. So as they are frontline with people going through the darkest times of their lives very selflessly, you are there defending them. You are there for your whole career taking a stand for people, and you've been, you know, quietly doing it, and just because of your goodness, it's become more known now. But that's not what drives you. You know, this recent, you know, notoriety has nothing to do with the love that you have. And I just hope that your girls will always know from the outside how influential you are, not just as an industry expert, but as a human being. So thank you, Rick, for all that you've done.

SPEAKER_02

It's very kind. Thank you. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. And Rockstars, thank you so much for being a part of this show here at the special series here at Growth Code. Uh, as always, this is Will reminding you to lead with love and to never give up. Until next time.

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Will Humphreys

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