From Expat Parenting To Solo Travel Adventures

You can live overseas for years and still feel your stomach drop the first time you travel alone. That tension between “I want to go” and “what if I can’t handle it” drives our conversation with Paula Barnes, the travel creator and expat storyteller behind Truly Expat Travel, joining us from Sydney.

Paula shares how a “six-month” move from Australia turned into nearly two decades across Asia, raising three kids in places like Taiwan, Singapore, and Hong Kong. We talk about the real-life logistics that shape confident travelers: language barriers before smartphones, how Google Translate changed everything, and why cultural context matters more than snap judgments. Along the way, we compare notes on how travel reshapes kids, families, and the meaning of home.

Then we get practical for anyone considering solo travel, especially women over 45. Paula breaks down how to start small, when a tour can be the perfect bridge, and how to handle the surprisingly hard parts like eating alone at restaurants. We also dig into the tools that make modern travel smoother and safer, from WhatsApp communities to TripIt itineraries and using AI like ChatGPT and Claude without letting it overstuff your days. Plus, Paula gives guidance on planning Australia the right way and shouts out destinations that deserve more attention, including Sri Lanka and Bhutan.

Subscribe for more thoughtful travel stories, share this with a friend who needs a nudge to book the trip, and leave a quick review so more travelers can find us.

Paula's Website: https://trulyexpattravel.com/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/trulyexpat

Podcast: https://podcast.trulyexpattravel.com/

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"Wherever We May Roam: Finding Your Travel Style" - On Amazon

Transcript

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Welcome And Meet Paula Barnes

Jim 0:00

From raising a family as an expat in Southeast Asia over 20 years to helping women over 45 discover the joys of solo travel, life for our guest has always been an adventure. Welcome to Wherever We May Roam, the new face of Travels with Jim and Rita. This podcast is about discovering your own travel style to explore the world. I'm Jim Santos, and along with my wife Rita, we've spent more than 16 years traveling. Sometimes for a few weeks, sometimes for a few months, and sometimes a whole lot longer. And what we've learned is this: there's no right or wrong way to travel. Some people take extended getaways, some roam part-time, some work from the road, and some make travel a full-time lifestyle. This podcast is about helping you figure out what works for you and how to make it happen in the real world. So whether you're planning your next trip or thinking about something bigger, we're glad you're here. Let's get started. Welcome everybody, I'm Jim Santos, joined by my wife and travel companion Rita, and this is Wherever We May Roam. Today we're taking you on a virtual trip all the way to Sydney, Australia, to chat with our guest, Paula Barnes. Paula is a travel creator, podcast host, and expat storyteller behind Truly Expat Travel. Originally from Australia, she has spent nearly two decades living across Asia, building a life rooted in international travel, cultural immersion, and raising her family abroad. Now a relatively young empty nester, she continues to travel extensively and explore new destinations while encouraging others to do the same. Especially women over 45 who want to rediscover confidence, freedom, and curiosity through travel.

Paula Barnes 1:54

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be on here. Good morning from here. I'm guessing it's good evening for you guys.

Moving Abroad With Three Kids

Jim 2:02

Good evening here. Yeah, we're looking at uh thunderstorms rolling all around the area, so hopefully we won't get cut off. Now, you know, Rita and I were expats in Ecuador for six years, but we only brought a cat and a dog. You and your husband left your home in Australia, gosh, twenty years ago, and you brought three children with you. Can you give us some background on what led to I mean, that's a radically big change in lifestyle.

Paula Barnes 2:24

Yeah, do you know it's funny? It goes back to when my husband and I first met. So when we first met, I we were together three months and I moved to the UK. It was quite romantic because he followed me there and then we had a beautiful beautiful holiday. But I my goal was to live there, and he said to me at the time, if you come back to Australia and we get married, then maybe one time, one one day we'll move overseas. And so it's always been in the back of his head that I've always wanted to move overseas. So when the opportunity came, we were only going for six months. You know, it's the it was all it's always that way, right? I'm going to be going for six months. It's a short trip. Yeah, it's it'd be easy to take the three kids there. But yeah, 19 years later, and I'm still in Asia. So yeah, that's what took us there.

Jim 3:10

Well, how old were your kids when you first got there? You uh started in Taiwan, right?

Paula Barnes 3:14

Yeah, they were really little. So my baby was two. Um, two, yeah, they were little, two, five, and seven. And so yeah, now they're all young men, young adults. So what a great experience though for them. Do you know? It's funny, I think it's that guilt that you have as a mother, right? Because I remember when the kids were a little bit older, and I said to my eldest at the time, do you regret not having those, you know, those childhood memories that all my friends grew up with with my friends' kids and you know, like that community that you have when you're at home. And he's like, Are you kidding me? I have friends all around the world. Exactly. Okay, yeah, yeah. It makes yeah, so no, no regrets now. They had an amazing childhood.

Jim 4:00

Yeah, I bet they did. Yeah. It sounds like you have trouble staying in one space for uh for too long.

Paula Barnes 4:07

I think it we go where my husband's work goes. I can work anywhere, so because I'm online, so yeah, wherever his work goes, we kind of follow. So we have just literally moved from Singapore back to Hong Kong, actually, within the last couple of months. And so the kids are excited because they mainly grew up in Hong Kong. So I think they'll come visit a little bit more than they did when we were in other places. Are they in college now at universities? Past that. The youngest, yeah. So my youngest is. So my youngest is 22, so he's still studying, but the older two, yeah, they're beyond that. There's I've got a 25 and a 27-year-old. Oh, that's great.

Jim 4:45

And they're based in Australia.

Paula Barnes 4:46

They are, they're all well at the moment. So my eldest has just come back. Yeah, so they've got the travel bug as well. So my eldest has just come back from Ireland. He was playing rugby over there. So who knows where they will end up? I don't think they'll end up here forever. I think they will be like us and and travel.

Jim 5:07

Yeah, it's amazing how much it opens up people's minds when they're exposed to travel. It suddenly becomes very easy, I think.

Rita 5:14

Yeah, I think our our grandkids definitely got the bug after visiting us in South America.

Jim 5:20

Yeah, we tell their mom that we're a bad influence.

Rita 5:23

We are.

Jim 5:23

Yeah.

Paula Barnes 5:25

Do you know it's funny? I say I say the same thing. Like I say, you know what? I wish my kids would just stay in one spot so I can come visit them. And then my husband's like, Are you kidding me? You brought them up. Yeah. Yeah.

Rita 5:36

We have a granddaughter that spent her senior year in high school in Denmark and of course traveled all over Europe.

Jim 5:43

And now she can't wait to get back.

Rita 5:44

Yeah. Now she's at a university here, but she intends to do her master's in Europe somewhere.

Jim 5:50

But it's the same thing you were saying. She has friends in Tallinn, Estonia that she wants to visit.

Rita 5:54

And they've come visit her.

Jim 5:56

Yeah, these people that she's met and they're just kind of scattered all over Europe and the world now. Right.

Rita 6:00

Yeah.

Paula Barnes 6:00

Yeah.

Rita 6:01

Yeah. She said when she came home for the summer, this past summer, you know, people were talking about their prom dresses, and she says, I had no interest in that, you know.

Jim 6:12

She's been been to the Prague Castle and the Louvre.

Rita 6:15

Yeah, you know, prom dress. Nightclubs in Berlin.

Paula Barnes 6:18

Yeah. Yeah.

Jim 6:22

A prom can't stand up to a nightclub in Berlin.

Paula Barnes 6:24

No. No, exactly. It it does change them though, you know. I remember all three kids ended up going back to Australia for boarding school because they wanted to be Australian. And so I um I remember my daughter can rang me one night and said, Mom, can you believe people don't have passports? Yeah.

Language Barriers And New Tools

Jim 6:45

Now when we moved to Ecuador, we had to learn some Spanish, of course. But Taiwan recognizes like 16 official languages, Singapore four, Hong Kong, two. You've got dozens of local dialects.

Rita 6:56

Yeah, that must have been interesting.

Jim 6:57

Yeah, I think there's over a thousand dialects spoken in uh Southeast Asia. How how difficult was that transition?

Paula Barnes 7:04

I think in the beginning, really difficult because you didn't have smartphones or you didn't have Google Translate. Yeah. So I remember we had like these taxi cards. So every time you jumped into a cab, at least they could read where you wanted to go because my because because in Taiwan it's it's the tone. I couldn't get the tone, you know, and it nobody could understand what I was saying, even though I know that I was saying the right words. So in the beginning, very difficult, like really, really hard. But as the years went on and technology uh now allows us to use Google Translate, uh, it makes life so much easier.

Rita 7:40

Right.

Paula Barnes 7:40

You know, I can now go to the shop and ask for a loaf of bread without crying. Right.

Rita 7:47

We had a friend who everywhere he went, he'd take a picture of whatever building it was or whatever, so he could just hop in a cab and show him a picture of the building that he wanted to go to because he was really struggling with Spanish.

Paula Barnes 8:46

But I think also that some of the countries have become a lot more international. So I mean, Singapore, the official language is English, even though there's four languages. So that has made me a little lazy because now I'm back in Hong Kong. Most people speak English, but now that's changed quite a lot compared to when I was there, that there is a lot more mainland Chinese there. So, you know, you've got Cantonese, which is the official language, but now you've got Mandarin as well that's been introduced through the mainland. And it's actually it's not difficult because you have got Google Translate, but it is actually more challenging than it used to be. Right. If that makes sense.

Jim 9:23

Yeah, actually, I was surprised that in Ecuador there were schools that were teaching Mandarin.

Rita 9:26

Yeah, there are there are oh wow. Yeah. Because the Chinese have a lot of investments there.

Paula Barnes 9:32

It makes sense. I mean, that's the way I think outside of English, I think and Spanish, isn't Mandarin the most spoken? I think it is. I think it is, yeah. No, I think it is.

Jim 9:43

Now it sounds like you were a traveler before you met your husband before you uh moved to Taiwan.

Paula Barnes 9:48

I was, and I think I I introduced travel to him and he's now he's now feels the same way. Thank goodness. I don't think I could have married him otherwise.

Rita 9:58

I had that prerequisite if you don't like to travel, we're not getting along. Yeah.

Jim 10:04

Yeah, you're you're lucky because really uh couples are like fine wines, they don't always travel well together.

Paula Barnes 10:10

No, correct.

Jim 10:11

Now, one of the things we found out about living abroad was it's completely wiped out that general fear of international travel that you hear people talk about so much.

Rita 10:20

Yeah.

Jim 10:21

That's the first thing people always say when you talk about traveling in another country was, is it safe? Aren't you afraid something will happen while you're there? Uh have your experiences uh living in so many different countries changed the

Fear, Safety, And Traveling Alone

Jim 10:32

way you and your family travel?

Paula Barnes 10:33

I think quite often it's funny though, right? Because when the kids were with us, we only traveled as a family, you know, because when I was 21 and I did travel on my own, I had a bad experience and said I'll never do that again. And so when I first traveled on my own was when the kids left school. Like it's all of a sudden, it's me. And I'm like, okay, well, I when I say left school, they left us, they went to boarding school. So then I had to start traveling on my own to get to but from Australia. And then all of a sudden, I started to reinvent myself. I love to travel, and my husband's busy, and the kids are now full-time in school, and then they went to university. So they didn't travel with me as much as they used to. So then the very first time I traveled alone, it was still scary. It doesn't matter how many times you can live in a country or move to a new country, you've still got the stability of going home, knowing the address to go home. Whereas when you're traveling on your own, it's scary the first time, you know. And I remember going to Italy and I shouldn't be scared in Italy. You know, my dad, I'm half Italian. So when I traveled there, I was traveling up to visit my my Z, my auntie up in Como. I was petrified because I got lost because I'm really bad with directions, and then I panicked. But you know, that first time doing it on your own, and then you finish that, you know, then you find finally get to the destination, and then you finish the trip, and you go, that's not that bad. Right. It's actually not that bad. I panic for no reason.

Rita 12:04

We were in Riga, Latvia a couple years ago, and Jim had to be hospitalized there. So I was on my own for nine days, and I got lost. I got lost. Riga. Yeah, but I didn't panic. I saw these people queued up for a restaurant, and you know, most of the young people speak English all over Europe. So and they were like 30-ish, and I showed them an address written down of my condo that I was staying in, and I thought if they can just point me to the city wall, I know where the condo is. Yeah. So so they did, and then after I got home, I thought, why had all of these I I what do they call it? Air tags.

Jim 12:49

Yeah, air tags, uh Apple AirTags.

Rita 12:51

In in the condo, in my luggage, I could have just done fine mic.

Jim 12:55

Yeah. Which we've done before. We've been walking around Athens and get lost. It's like, well, where's my luggage? Yeah.

Rita 13:03

Yeah. And I, but you know, I at first I was a little panicked, and then I saw that young couple and I did that. But if I would eventually, I think, come around to the air tag. But I know that feeling, what you're saying, the initial shock of it.

Jim 13:18

You know, in our travels and speaking at international living conferences, we constantly run into women who are interested in solo travel. Was that kind of the the seed of your desire to start helping women over 45 enjoy solo travel?

Paula Barnes 13:31

Absolutely. You know, like when I started traveling on my own and people kept messaging me, oh my God, I don't have enough courage to do that. How do you

Helping Women Over 45 Start

Paula Barnes 13:39

do that on your own? Are you scared? And I'm like, it's easy. It's really, really easy once you step out of that. Yeah, you know what I mean? And so it's I think it's not easy when it's when you're in your head and you're watching other people do it.

Rita 13:52

Right.

Paula Barnes 13:53

So my goal is to say, okay, your children are now grown up, or you know, you recently divorced, or for whatever the reason is that you find yourself wanting to travel but can't have got no one to travel with, I'm here to show you that you can do that, you know. And so that's why I started hosting trips as well, because that way if you start easy, the little steps, right? If you start with a group of women, they're in the same boat, they do they're like-minded, then the next trip you can might be doing on your own, you know, if you've got no one to do it with.

Jim 14:25

Uh, I've looked over some of the uh trips that you've offered on truly expatravel.com, uh, your website, and these aren't like you know, wine tasting in Florence or museum tours of Paris. You're taking people like Morocco, Bhutan, Mongolia. What led you to these type of destinations?

Paula Barnes 14:44

I think we've already done all the Parises and the Romans and the places, you know, like we've done that in our and they're usually the first ones that you go to when you're younger, right? Because you want to see those amazing places. And they are amazing, but I think at my age, I want to do things that I'm probably not feeling comfortable doing it on my own. So, and I know that even though I do do them on my own, because every place that I go to before I host, I normally go to the destination first and suss it out before I take the women. And so I really want to show these women places that they that I think they probably wouldn't go on their own, that they could go in a not in a pack, that doesn't sound right, but in a group, you know, like we would go in a group and we can be, you know, we can we can take all the safe things, we can take all the set safety precautions together.

Jim 15:35

Yeah, I think if you can handle Morocco and Mongolia, you'd be okay in London or Paris.

Rita 15:39

I think so. Yes.

Paula Barnes 15:42

Yeah, exactly.

Jim 15:44

Now, for women who are would like to make travel, you know, a larger part of their life might be in little or middle age or a little bit later. Where and how should they start to do that? Do you have any like beginner tips?

Paula Barnes 15:55

Yeah, I think take small trips first, right? So uh firstly go on a trip that's only an hour away, you know. You can do a long weekend somewhere on your own, you know, suss it out and look at directions and and you're speaking the same language, right? So it's not going to be difficult. And then the second step I would make is that if you're still not, if you want to venture out into another country, go on a tour. You know, go on a whether it is that you get there and then you a walking tour with a group of people, or whether it is you do like a five-day tour with other people, I think that gives you because you have to meet those people, you know, that's that's even scary. Get getting into a group of people that you don't know and having to introduce yourself and make friends, that can also be daunting. So if you do little trips first, then get yourself used to meet making conversation, because not everybody feels comfortable going up to someone and saying, Oh, hi, excuse me, how do you get to the Louvre?

Rita 16:55

You know, like so.

Paula Barnes 16:57

If you're in a group and you're made to meet these people, by the end of that trip, nine out of ten times, you end up being friends.

Rita 17:04

Right.

Paula Barnes 17:05

And then you never know because I have met so many people on tours and so many people on planes, because I am a chatter, as you can tell, that I, you know, we follow each other now. And I've been in destinations where people have messaged and go, Oh my gosh, you're here. Let's catch up for lunch. And I do. Yeah, yeah. You know, yeah.

Jim 17:20

Yeah, when my uh first wife died, I spent some time traveling by myself a little bit, just local places like you're talking about. And I found one of the more difficult things

Eating Alone Without Feeling Awkward

Jim 17:30

was eating in restaurants by yourself.

Rita 17:31

I started to bring that up too, yeah.

Jim 17:33

Yeah, do you have any tips for uh your solo travelers when they're facing situations like that for the first time?

Paula Barnes 17:38

Do you know? It's funny you say that because the first year of my traveling solo, I I ate in my hotel room every night because of that. The same reason, right?

Jim 17:46

You don't want to do that. That's yeah, that's the opposite reason for why you're out there. How do you get over that then?

Paula Barnes 17:52

I think the very first time was I went back to Italy another time, not not to the same destination, but I I went to Italy and my husband, I remember my husband on the phone and saying, Oh, you know, what are you gonna do tonight? And I was like, Oh, I'm just gonna go get something and eat in my room. He's like, Are you kidding me? He said, if you don't feel comfortable eating at night, uh at night, why don't you go at dusk? It's still light then, you know, it's it's it's six o'clock, you can sit outside, and it was alfresco, it was summer, it was Europe. So I sat outside, got myself a glass of wine. People watched because that's what you do in Europe. You're allowed to do that because you don't you don't do it in Asia. People look at you weirdly, but you do it in Europe, right? Yeah, and so I sat, I ate a really great meal, I drank a glass of wine, it was still light enough, people were walking around, and I'm like, this is fun.

Rita 18:42

Yeah.

Paula Barnes 18:44

What am I missing out on? And I still went home when it was just starting to get dark because I wasn't uh at that time I wasn't feeling that comfortable walking around at night on my own. So I'm like, I can do this, and so yeah, now I do it all the time. I wouldn't, I I very rarely sit in my room and eat, even if I'm recording or working in my room all day because sometimes you have to catch up on work. I will still go out and get a meal and sit down and have that little luxury before going back.

Jim 19:13

Yeah, and you know, really other cultures are much more open than they are uh uh in the US. And I don't know if Australia is the same, but there are places like in Lisbon, I think it was called the World Market. Huge building with a lot of different places to get food, but everybody sat at these big communal tables. Yeah. So you just naturally start talking with the people across from you or next to you.

Rita 19:32

Yeah. And we went back there several times because it was so much fun.

Jim 19:36

Yeah, and pubs in Ireland or England, it's hard not to talk there.

Rita 19:41

I've had a child lay practically on my lap sleeping at a pub. I didn't know who the child was. It's okay. She was tired.

Paula Barnes 19:52

I think that in the US as well, though. Like I in Australia, you just would never sit at a bar on your own and drink a glass of wine or something. You just would never do that. Whereas the very first time I did it, I met a lady who who was from Colorado who I met at a conference in upstate New York. And we went to Niagara Falls together, and she said, I'll meet you in the bar. And she was sitting at the bar having a drink. And I I came up and I was like, Why are you sitting at the bar? And she's like, Why wouldn't I? I'm like, in Australia, you just don't do that. And she goes, Yeah, that's where you meet people. I'm like, Oh, okay.

Jim 20:28

I imagine that general fear that we run into all the time, you know, fear of the unknown other cultures. A lot of people just really reluctant to get out of their comfort zone. I

Building Community Through Group Travel

Jim 20:36

imagine as you've been doing these trips, you've seen a lot of women change after these trips. Do you have any like repeat travelers or people who you've been able to see just an incredible change in them over the years?

Paula Barnes 20:49

Absolutely. So I have I'm a little bit different to most people because the the travel, the women that um come on my trip, I have like a travel club and we have like a group. There's about I think there's about 66 women on there at the moment.

Rita 21:03

Wow.

Paula Barnes 21:03

And basically it's a WhatsApp group. And so I'm like, okay, I'm thinking of going to ABC. Who wants to come? And these women get to know each other through this WhatsApp group. And then what I try to do is online, like I do a Zoom call, catch up once a month with anyone from these 66 women that want to get on and meet each other so that they feel comfortable enough to come on their own. And that they already know that familiar face that they've met online. And then what we do is we create this chat before we get we before we start, and people go, Oh, I'm from say Sydney, I'm catching flight, blah, blah, blah, blah. Do you want to see if we can get on the same flight? And all of a sudden, you see these friendships emerging before they even get on the trip. And then when they're on the trip, you can't help to be friendly after being spending 10 days in this beautiful country, experience these beautiful things. And yeah, I have repeat guests or passengers or whatever, you know, yeah, travelers that they come on all my trips. It's yeah, it's I love that, you know, because I'm actually asking them where they want to go, and then I'm creating the trips rather than the other way around.

Jim 22:13

The tools for doing that, I noticed on your website, uh, truly expatravel.com. It's a lot of useful information. I really encourage our listeners to check it out, no matter what level of travel you're into.

Travel Apps And AI Planning Tips

Jim 22:23

But you have a whole section devoted to travel trips and specifically uh useful travel apps. Now you mentioned WhatsApp, which we absolutely love. Right. And everybody around the world uses it.

Rita 22:33

Yeah.

Jim 22:33

And we've recently started using AI to help with our trip planning. I noticed one of your articles is just about travel tech. Uh, do you have some other favorite apps or uh some ways of using some of the new tools when you're

Paula Barnes 22:44

I think for me, the first one is Trippet. I don't know if you've used Trippet. No, I haven't heard of it. No. Tripet's amazing. So what it does is that as soon as anything comes into your inbox, whether it's a ticket that you bought, a tour that you flight, anything, it will automatically go into this app and it creates its own itinerary from that. And so it has like a map as well. So you can see, especially when you've got hotels and you can see where the hotels are. Right. It tells you how long it gets from to get from A to B, especially if you're traveling, if you're doing a road trip. I put all my family on it because I can also, if one of the kids have gone off on a trip, they can send that trip to me and I can follow their journey and I know where they are when they are, especially if they're traveling solo. So then it's a safety thing as well. Right. So that is my absolutely, and you can do the free version, but the paid version, if you want the pay version, it also comes up with anything, you know. So if your flight is delayed or cancelled, it'll pop up on your screen so that you don't, you know, you know way in advance. Um, it'll tell you a gate number before you get there. So it's I I love that. That's my favorite. And I'm not sponsored by trip and then a capital IT, but it's all one word.

Jim 23:56

What about some of the AI tools that are out there? Uh have you started using any of those?

Paula Barnes 24:00

If I'm anywhere, I'm always using Chat GPT just to give me some, you know, like if I'm in a a destination and say, you know, for example, say I've just landed in Morocco in Marrakesh, and then I'm like, I'll ask it, what's the opening hours for this restaurant that I want to go to? So ChatGPT and I are friends most of the time. Sometimes we're not, but most of the times we're friends. But also Claude, like what I do is I tend to, when I'm building an itinerary for myself when I'm traveling solo, I tend to go on to other people's blogs because you know, like they are the ones that have traveled there because it's a little bit more realistic, if you know what I mean. And then I'll go on to Claude and build the itinerary, but from the information that I found on the website, if that makes sense.

Rita 24:43

Right, right.

Paula Barnes 24:44

So Claude is great as well. But the problem I found with Claude is that you can't just build it from scratch without having any knowledge or doing any research, because it'll do a really unrealistic itinerary. It'll tell you that you need to do 20 things in one day and then you look at it. Yeah. It's like, how am I going to get from the Medina down, you know, all the way to the tea house that I want to go to an hour away?

Rita 25:09

But if you build the perimeters for it to cert, it can eliminate some of that. Correct.

Jim 25:15

Yeah, we we've been using a tool that uses multiple AI tools as kind of a conglomerate. So it'll use ChatGPT, it'll use Claude. If you ask it to you know give me a graphic for the blog I just wrote, it'll do that too. It'll just pull together whatever it needs and do that. You know, we've been thinking about exploring your part of the world there, that hemisphere, but for us, that's quite a long trip. If we do head out that way, how much time would you suggest we devote? And what are some good you know starter locations for people who are used to Europe and South America?

Paula Barnes 25:44

It depends on how long you have. You know, like we're retired, we can take as long as we want. We do.

How Long To Spend In Australia

Paula Barnes 25:48

Okay, because it's a big country.

Rita 25:51

Yeah.

Paula Barnes 25:52

Yeah. I know like quite often someone will say, Oh, I've got a week. I want to go Sydney, Brisbane, Melbourne. I'm like, Well, you'll need a longer than a week. It's almost like saying, I've got a week, I really want to do all of the US. It's like, you're not going to be able to do that.

Jim 26:06

Yeah, I think 10 to 12 weeks is kind of our sweet spot.

Paula Barnes 26:09

That's that's okay. Well, you've got plenty of time to discover the country. It's um if you like road trips, it's a it's great to do. You start in Melbourne and then you can drive all the way up to Brisbane. That's a lot of fun because there's beautiful inland country towns. I did one on my own actually just recently, and it was um discovered all these little country towns that you know. I didn't know as much about the country as I thought I did until you go to these places and it's full of history and you learn so much. Obviously, going up the coast to Queensland, you've got the most beautiful beaches. You know, I'm being very biased and I've seen some beautiful beaches around the world, but we do have some spectacular beaches. So I would highly recommend going to some of those beaches all the way up to you can go all the way up to far north Queensland. We also have some beautiful, beautiful wineries down in South Australia. There's a lot of history there too. But when I say a lot of history, we're we're talking a hundred years, we're not talking a thousand. For us, it's a a lot of history. But if you really, really want to have a taste of Australia, I would highly recommend going to Tasmania. Not as many people go, but I tell you what, it's probably one of my favorite destinations in Australia. It's you've got beautiful food. So we have two cities of UNESCO cities of gastronomy, and one of them is in Lawnceston in Tasmania. So if you love farm to table food, that's the place to go. But you've also got everything from you know the nature, so you can see your Tasmanian Devils to the food, like I said, and then they've got the history, got a lot of hiking. I don't know if you like hiking, but there's a lot of hiking down there as well. And the people are just lovely, you know, and the weather is colder, cooler. So if you go in summer, it's not too hot. That's just the east coast. So that was just, you know, yeah. Yeah. Then you then you go on the west coast, and then you've got Northern Territory and Ularu, and you've got all the outback. There's so much to do in Australia. It's such a big country that people underestimate how much to cover in. I'd say do a few trips now and again, as opposed to try and do it all in one trip if it's possible.

Rita 28:18

It's such a a plane ride. We'd have to do it by hops. We'd have to go or do a reposition cruise from Hawaii or something. It's just 23 hours. I just my body couldn't take it.

Jim 28:32

How about uh further north in Asia? Any underrated countries or regions you know you've lived in to travel through that that we should check out?

Paula Barnes 28:39

I think for me, Sri Lanka. I think Sri Lanka is so beautiful and it's very much undiscovered in some areas, and it's so affordable in

Underrated Asia Picks And First Stops

Paula Barnes 28:47

comparison to places like Japan or Singapore. But I'd have to say that was that definitely people don't talk about it enough. In fact, I'm glad people don't talk it enough because there's a bit too many zuras there. But it's beautiful because you can do everything from safaris to the most beautiful train ride that you're one of the top in the world, I I believe. Then you've got the beach areas, you've got the tea plantations, you've got so much in such a well, it's relatively small country compared to others. So Sri Lanka is definitely up there, but also Bhutan. I think Bhutan for me changed me. And yeah, it really did. And I don't even know how to explain it. As soon as you get there, it's a certain energy that you have around you that it's so quiet and so mellow and so it's not fast-paced. And you know, they don't have any chain restaurants or they don't have any chain boutiques or shops. It's all really Bhutan as I imagine it would have been 50 years ago. It's just so beautiful, so quiet, and everyone's so lovely. Even with the areas where there's a little bit of traffic, it's not busy, busy, you know. I I'd say Bhutan is a one of those trips that everyone has to do in their lifetime. It's just expensive because it's uh, I think it's a hundred US dollars a day visa because they're very selective.

Rita 30:13

Yeah. That's how they keep it unspoiled. Yeah.

Paula Barnes 30:17

Yeah. You know, they don't get the people that want to do a hundred countries in a hundred days. They get the people that want to do slow travel. And it's be honestly just beautiful. Really is. I think it's one of the only countries in the world that's 100% organic because they don't believe in pesticides.

Jim 30:34

Yeah, it's definitely an area that we would like to spend some time in. It's just it is so far. Uh so far, our only experience in Asia is we crossed the river Bosphorus when we were in Istanbul and had lunch in Asia and then came home.

Rita 30:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Paula Barnes 30:48

I've done that.

Rita 30:49

We've been to Asia.

Paula Barnes 30:50

Woo woo.

Rita 30:51

Mark that off the list.

Paula Barnes 30:53

Yeah, I did the same thing in Colorado just recently. We did Route 66 and we drove up to Colorado just so that we've like, we just had we had lunch in Colorado drove back. I just and I also think for those who have not been to Asia, I think you do have to go to Singapore. And I think that's because it's not overwhelming. It's one of those countries that it's super clean, super safe. Everyone speaks English. So if you're just gonna tip dip your toe into Asia, that's a great place to start.

Jim 31:23

You know, you mentioned these tours where you see, you know, a hundred places in in 10 days or something. We're also big fans of not over planning. We want to really experience the local

Slow Travel And Cultural Immersion

Jim 31:33

cultures. What do you recommend to help travelers slow down and really have, you know, a full experience, a really immersive experience of the places that you're visiting?

Paula Barnes 31:40

I believe that there's a couple of things that I I think is that firstly, is that you you're correct. Don't say that like if you're gonna spend, say, two weeks in a destination and a week of that is a tour, then spend seven days just roaming around that that city as well. Quite often I will ask people, usually expats, what is it like? Where can I go to Puerto Rico? What's your favorite restaurant in? You know, like what are you or in Paris? I don't want to go to all the tourist traps. Where do you normally eat at? And so they're the places I get to wander around neighborhoods. Even when I go on these girls' trips with them, I say to them, you know what, I'm gonna get there three days early. If anyone wants to meet me three days early, I can show you around and we'll just do some stuff before the tour starts. Because you want to know a little bit more about the place than getting on and off a bus or zooming around. You want to explore, you want to find that bookstore on your own, or you want to find that cafe by chance and then go, I went to the best cafe in Paris, and it's nowhere where you think that it is, you know. Yeah, yeah. So that's what I tend to do. But I also would highly recommend going off on some of those trips. So say you go for five days, spend five days roaming, and then if you want to come back to that destination next time, then do a tour. There's a few ways that you can do it. You or the other way is I quite often say to people, if you really, really want to know a country, volunteer. There's a lot of places now that do these volunteer traveling holiday well vacations where you might go and build a house as well or teacher in a school as well as know about the area. So they're also ways that you can really immerse yourself in the culture and and the people.

Jim 33:25

What would you say is is the thing that you get most out of travel?

Paula Barnes 33:29

The people. It's definitely the people. It's it's definitely meeting the people, the locals,

What Travel Teaches Us About People

Paula Barnes 33:34

you know, and and I think the more locals I meet in a destination, the more I understand the culture of the country, you know, like when you have differences, for example, you know, beliefs, or it might be it's spiritual, it's I'm not gonna say spiritual, but it's generally if you go to a country and you say, I don't understand these people, you know. For example, China. China's a perfect example. When I first ever went to China, I'm like, these people are so rude, you know, they're pushing in front of you. You have to understand. Do you know how many people are in that country? You know, and they don't they don't know how to line up because they've never they that's not a lining up as a Western thing. They don't do that. So first in, best dressed. So they're not rude at all, they're just getting to the front of the line, it's in a different way. So once you understand the culture of the country or the reasons behind what they do, you kind of go, yeah, get it. I understand now.

Rita 34:25

Yeah.

Jim 34:26

But that's the things that you don't really notice unless you travel a little bit.

Paula Barnes 34:29

Yeah. Exactly. And I think when we when we we're a big multicultural country too, and I think when when we have visitors come over, you can't expect those visitors to understand all of what we are expecting. You know, like if we go to their country and we see all of we're lining up and we're expecting everyone else to do the same. They don't know. They don't like we don't know about their culture, they don't know about our country when when they come to our so I think traveling start you start to become a lot more patient with other cultures.

Jim 35:00

We've been chatting with Paula Barnes, and you can find out more about Paula and connect with her through her website at truly expatravel.com. And be sure to check

Where To Find Paula And Final CTA

Jim 35:09

out her podcast, TrulyExpert Travel. Now you can find the links in the show notes, and her podcast has been added to our podcast page as well as one of our favorite podcasts. So, Paula, thanks for joining us on Wherever We May Roam, and I hope we make it to your side of the globe sometime soon, or maybe run into you next time you hit to Chattanooga.

Paula Barnes 35:25

Absolutely, thank you so much for having me, and I hope to see you soon.

Jim 35:36

If you've been thinking about traveling longer or just traveling better, we hope this episode gave you a few more ideas. Remember, there's no right or wrong way to explore the world. Only the way that works for you. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast. And if you have a moment, leave a quick review. It really helps more people find us. And if you want to go deeper, you can check out my book, Wherever We May Roam, Finding Your Travel Style, where I walk through all of this in more detail. You can search for it on Amazon in Kindle, paperback, and audiobook, or just use the link on our podcast page. If you have any questions, a topic you would like discussed, or would like to be on our show, email us at Jim at Jim Santosbooks.com. Thanks for listening, and as always, safe travels wherever you may roam.