SPECIAL REPLAY! S1E27 Rebecca Minor, LICSW - The Complexity of Gender

🎧 Special Replay: A Conversation with Rebecca Minor, LICSW 🎧

This week, I'm revisiting my powerful conversation with Rebecca Minor, a queer, Jewish clinician, consultant, educator, and author specializing in trauma, gender, and sexuality. Given the rising threats to our beautiful LGBTQ+ community, this episode feels more important than ever.

🌈 Rebecca shares her journey to becoming a Gender Specialist and her work with trans and gender nonconforming youth and their families. Her trauma-informed and resilience-oriented approach is a true gift, especially in a time when support and understanding are so needed.

📚 Rebecca is also the founder of Prism Therapy Collective and author of the upcoming book Raising Trans Kids: What To Expect When You Weren’t Expecting This, set for release in Fall 2025.

🎙️ Tune in to hear Rebecca’s insights, stories, and the hope she brings to our community. This is an episode you don’t want to miss!

To find out more about Rebecca and her work, here is a link to her webiste!
https://www.genderspecialist.com

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

Remember to like, rate, share and subscribe to the JUST DO YOU. podcast in order to receive our weekly episode updates!  If you like what you hear, please leave us a review at Apple Podcasts!

To follow us on Instagram, visit: https://www.instagram.com/justdoyoupod/

Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the just to you podcast. My name is Eric Nicole, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation. And if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The just to you podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us to inspire us to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the just you, you space of being. Each week I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly gonna laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we're gonna know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So, are you ready? Great, let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. All right, everyone. I have been looking forward to this conversation for quite some time. I'm grateful that this person is out in the world. Making a difference in impact, not only with the LGBT community, but their families and allies. So I want to introduce everyone to Rebecca minor. Hi, Rebecca. Hi, thank you so much for having me. Oh, it's my pleasure. Thank you for being here. I came across your platform quite a while ago. And when I started the podcast, I knew that you had to be one of my guests and I was really taken by your work. So I want to just real briefly, introduce you and then get into the conversation Okay. So for our guests. This is Rebecca, and I'm so excited to have her on today. And Rebecca is a queer Jewish clinician, consultant, and educator who specializes in the intersection of trauma, gender, and sexuality. And Rebecca, we're going to talk about that because it's a common thread through a majority of conversations, on this podcast and this kind of Just Do You space. But I was intrigued by your bio because it said, as a gender specialist, you partner with trans and gender non conforming youth. through their journey of becoming, and you're also a guide for their parents in affirming it. You are the founder of a therapy collective where your approach is always trauma informed and resilience oriented, which I love. In addition to your work, we talked about this before we hopped on you're part time faculty at Boston University. of social work. You are also, I think, a soon to be author. Has it been released yet or coming yet? It's coming September. It's coming. Yeah. I love it. And the book is called Raising Trans Youth, What to Expect When You Weren't Expecting This. So in a nutshell, that's who you are. With, like I said, a really robust website, there was so much great information. When I, finished really taking a look at who you are in the world I exhaled this sigh of relief to know that the community, our parents and the community have resources out there who are committed to help them navigate what is And, and forgive me and correct me if I'm wrong in saying this, but it's an ever changing, ever evolving, can be really confusing conversation about identity. Absolutely. Absolutely. That's literally why my glossary is called the ever evolving glossary of terms because I'm still learning new words all the time. Like I learn from my clients every day, by the way, I, I downloaded that glossary. I didn't realize it was like 37 pages, which I love, which I love about that too. I was like, I could go on and on and on. There's words I know are missing in there, but it's, you know, I want it to be digestible, but it's hard, but it's interesting. I'm I'm 58. Right. So I'm at that stage in my life. We didn't have, not only do we not have that glossary, we didn't have the abundance of this identity opportunity, but we also back then, I was talking about this on a couple of the last podcast, we didn't not only have the languaging, but we didn't have the experience in the exposure to this kind of abundance of, of gender identity. And so I can really understand why people. Especially those that are not in the LGBT community, many of our listeners are not are sometimes confused or throw their hands up in the air and don't know where to start. So was this something that you were always interested in? I want to go back a little farther into your past and figure that out. Sure. It was, I think I, so I grew up doing a lot of theater and dance. So I was very connected to queer community from an early age. And always under the guise of allyship, right? I was like, I'll go to GSA in high school. Not because I'm out, but because like, I'm here for to support, obviously. And it wasn't until years went by that I was like, Oh, wait, Hmm. Maybe this is me. But it, I think I've always been fascinated by people. And when I went to college, I had the opportunity to take a course called queer and pleasant danger with a, my first, you know, Out queer professor who taught us what that word meant. Because at that point I was like, are we allowed to say that word? And so I learned a lot that semester. And it really started to open my eyes to what it looked like for people to really live their truth. And that's when I was like, this is what I want to do. I had always known I either wanted to be in theater or as their work as a therapist both around the idea of like storytelling and helping people live their authentic lives. So I managed to study both, in college and that's really melded well. And I think that's kind of how it got started. And just evolved from there. And I'm happy to talk about that. Yeah. I want to talk about that, but just, let's go back just a little further. So, cause I'm always fascinated by this as we kind of talk to other queer people is, was that something, you know, you obviously went and you said, Oh wait, this is me. Had there been any indication earlier on in childhood? Was there, I mean, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's important because what, what I'm trying to evoke in these conversations, especially for those who may not know a person in the LGBT community or have a family member is this isn't something we just wake up one day and go, Oh, I think I'm going to be X or I'm going to be Y or X to be Z is that we all have our own individual, very specific experiences and all grew up in very different parts of the country, different parts of the world. And you know, whatever stage and whatever decade and whatever gen you are, it was different for everyone. Right. And so I'm always curious of how that kind of came about for you. Absolutely. So I'm a millennial. So when I took that course that I was talking about, that was 2007. And I had grown up in Massachusetts, very liberal family, very affirming environments, like never got. Any messaging that, that that was wrong or bad. But didn't put together really that That I could be attracted to people of more than one gender. And because I experienced attraction to men, I was just like, oh, okay, cool. And you know, compulsory heterosexuality is a thing that now as a field we're talking about and studying more that it's just like this habitual process of being a part of heteronormative culture where you're just like, This is the next step. Like, okay, sure. Get a boyfriend and then maybe marry them and then have babies with them and buy a house. And like that kind of standard operating procedure. And it wasn't really until I started to learn more terminology, I think too, that I started to see that as possible because the word bisexual was not a positive word when I was growing up. So even though I knew I experienced attraction to women or girls, I guess at the time I didn't, I was like, I don't, I'm not bi. Like, I don't want to be like those girls, which to me meant like girls who, Are doing this for attention or like some, you know, just all these negative associations with it, that it was always very like promiscuous. There were just a lot of negatives. And so when I found the term queer, I was like, that feels better to me. Like that feels more expansive. It feels fluid. It feels like there's some like movable prop. And that landed better for me. But when you ask if there are signs, I mean, I was actually, Thinking I could make a very funny reel about like very evidently gay things that I did before I came out. Just a few of which are, for example, I hosted the lesbian erotica authors series on campus. And because my lesbian boss at the time was like, I think you should do this. She obviously knew what she was doing. And I was just like, thanks for the opportunity, Anita. And he was also the one that was like, Hey, do you need more work study hours? You could keep score for the softball team. Like things that now I'm like, Oh, right. I kind of always had a boyfriend. And so I was like, I don't know. This works. There wasn't a lot of room or time for, for exploration until I got older and started to better understand some of these pieces. So yeah, this may make some people's head explode, but I'm curious from your perspective as a you know, clinical social worker, do you think that this kind of gender study should be taught in school? Absolutely. Yeah, I think back about listening to what you said, I was thinking about like back when I was an, I'm not a millennial when I was back in school and, and again, it was, you were either gay or lesbian and it was not a positive thing. Right. And, and the teachers that we had in our school specific books to them too. Right. Correct. A hundred percent. And, you know, the only gay person I knew back then was Mr. Albert, who cut my mom's hair. Who. You know, was incredibly flamboyant and lovely. And I was intrigued by him, but I was terrified to express that intrigue because I was like, they might think that I was, and I tell a funny story where I let him, I wanted blonder hair and my mom, let me get highlights. And I looked. Horrible. And I think I hid in my bathroom for like two weeks. It was terrible. But I was afraid of that back then. That was my fear. Like, Oh, they see me with highlighted hair. I'm going to be gay. It was all of those things. Right. And yet we had a teacher in the school that was, was gay. And it wasn't until much later. It was attracted to my best friend and there were other teachers and my girlfriend's parents. And we had no way to communicate that back then. And I think about the number of kids across the country, whether they're dealing with. Am I potentially gay or could I potentially be trans? Is that something that I, even those conversations, right. That you are now, you know, helping so much with, we just didn't have a way to communicate that. And I didn't know, I look back and I think, yeah, I was attracted to girls. I was, I had, Some really great girlfriends. But I also was attracted to their brother or their dad for the worst case scenario. Cause you know, back then the dads were a lot younger than they are now, but it was really a difficult time. And I think how wonderful would it be to, to have an opportunity for everyone to learn about all of the different identifiers that there are, and it doesn't mean that you are, it doesn't mean that you aren't, it just has an opportunity to educate. We would be in a much, much different spot than we're in now. And I, that's a bulk of what I end up doing with parents and people that I work with is really education around some of those basic ideas of like gender and sexuality are two different things. Gender expression can look different than gender identity. Because. If we don't talk about those things, we can't stand that. Like you can be romantically attracted to people of a certain gender, but maybe you're sexually attracted to people of a different gender. And that doesn't mean something is wrong or bad. But that you experience attraction in different ways. And I think it's really clear that it's about giving parents tools to navigate so that that child doesn't feel embarrassed or suppressed or, you know shame, because that's been another, you know, Little literal thread through almost every conversation I've had with an LGBTQ person on this podcast is that amount of shame that came from those early earlier days. And I would assume that, and my mom did a great job. I mean, like, I don't think we talked about it till I was 24. I actually kind of hit it till then. But my mom is a teacher and educator. And, you know, I think if I look back of what that would have been like to just kind of have this conversation, we talked about it the other day on another podcast about learning about sex. You know, we just don't equip our parents with that kind of education either. It's like, here's a book, you know, and if you're dealing with identity issues at that younger age, and you're handed a book that is so, as you said, heteronormative, it's very, very, very confronting and confusing. Why? Where do you think that Attachment to this heteronormative conversation comes from. I think it's what at least in our lifetime, what anyone's ever known. Is it known or is it taught? Like not taught directly, but it's taught. Absolutely. Yes. Because I believe like, if babies were born on an Island, I don't think Like without society as it is. I think, and I think we see that with gender creative parenting of people who choose to really create pretty neutral environments for their little one and maybe, you know, and not necessarily using neutral pronouns, but even just giving them different options of toys and whatever, it's amazing how kind of genderless kids can exist and enjoy their lives. And then they hit an age where they start to interact with society more and other kids. And that's when they learn those behaviors or those ideas, right? I mean, I have children in my life who want like my, I call him my fairy God child. You know, for a while he loved painting his nails and then he went to school and someone told him that boys don't paint your nails. And he really likes being a boy. And so he was like, well, then I guess the nails have to go. And I'm so happy that his mom texted me yesterday, a picture of him with nail polish on because I think it's summer. And so it's like, well, the kids at school, maybe weren't going to say anything about my nails. But all of it's learned. Absolutely. And it sticks with you. That's so, I love that story. I'm 58. And my, the girl who does my manicure and pedicure, she's like, let's paint your nails for pride. And I was like, no, no, no, no. I was like, and I'm 58. It's like, paint your nails. Like, what's the problem in my own head this many years? I'm like, Oh no, couldn't do that. And that's internalized. Yeah. And I left the salon going, that was just the dumbest thing ever. Like who really gives a, if I paint my nails, I want to challenge you. Okay. Yeah. I want to, that's, that's easier challenge than my last podcast. Talk about that offline. Somebody, I'm not repeating that till I air the podcast, but no, it's so, it's so true because I look at a lot of people and especially a lot of young people that, that are on Instagram. And you know, as much as I hate. the internet and online presence. I also love it for the opportunity for people, especially kids and younger people to express themselves. And I remember seeing an influencer who I think created his own nail polish line, and called it something that was very approachable for people. And I used to watch his videos and, I realized one day I was like, it doesn't matter what he is. He's just this. Human being that is out expressing themselves and if we lived in, and this is my Pollyanna side again, I know I've talked about it before, but if we lived in this world where people were just free to be expressive, how joyful would that be? Yes. Yeah. And gender is so relational. Yes. We understand ourselves as gendered beings in the context of other. Humans. Humans. Right. People, how do you know you're a woman or how do you know, whatever gender, it doesn't matter. But people will say, I know I'm this because I'm a mother or because I'm one of the guys or because I'm, and it's in the context of other people that we understand ourselves. Does that also play in line with the parents too, who come to see you? Because obviously it's, I'm sure they have a lot of questions like, will they be judged? Will they be persecuted if you will, for allowing their child to be gender fluid and, I would assume that's also a big conversation within your practice. And what will people think of us as parents? Like, will we be judged? What will we lose in the process? You know, if, and for some, For many of the families I work with, they have been pleasantly surprised as they've shared about their kids identities. That's not always the case, obviously, as you can imagine folks who've lost friends, lost their faith community, lost connection to family where they really make a choice of like, Do I want to be in relationship with my own mother or do I want to show up as the mother I want to show up as for this kid? And that's a difficult decision to make, but yeah, all of these questions come up and that's why I'm writing this book. Each chapter is one of those questions that keeps parents up at night. Of like it ever be loved you know, we'll, we'll, they find a job, will they have a family? And everything in between, you know, are they making it harder for themselves? That's another one that parents tend to worry about is like, will their life be harder? As it's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So does. This is kind of chicken before the egg conversation. But does, is it typically the parent who comes to you first, or are you referred by teachers to the student, to the family, or is it both? How does someone find an opportunity to work with you? I guess is the question. Yeah. So for years, I was an individual therapist for adolescents. So I would be sending up, working with the young person directly Okay. And the parents would email me. Constantly with a million questions. And I was like, wait a minute. They clearly need support and they need it from someone who can do more than it. Right. This is not an email question. This is a like let down and really unpack this question. So I started working more with parents and, and that really was kind of modeled after a fable that one of my professors told in grad school about this guy went to a village and, and all these people were fishing babies out of the water. Like they were pulling infants out of the river and it was like nonstop. And he was like, wait a minute, I'm going to go upstream and figure out why the babies are in the water in the first place. Realize, you know, like I can keep rescuing kids from the, from the river, or I can go upstream and make sure that their parents, caregivers, educators have the resource that they need so that these kids don't end up in the river in the first place. And so how people end up working with me now is either it's, you know, parents of kids I've already worked with. Parents of colleagues of mine who they're like, these parents really need someone to talk to and already working with the young person. So then work with the parents and we can kind of holistically work together to support family. Sometimes it's teachers. But a lot of it now is just literally people Googling me and I finally dialed in my SEO to the point where if you look up gender and teen and something, you'd find me. Yeah. So that's tends to be how people end up working with me. Is there a hesitation to get started? Does it take a little kind of coaxing or is it like, we are so ready. Let's just hit the ground running. It really varies, right? Like I met with a mom at noon today who was like, I've already reviewed everything I'd like to buy four sessions right now. And can you start you know, she's very particular context of being in Texas and having a gender nonconforming kid who she knows is going to need hormones and it's not safe for them to do that in Texas. Yeah. There are other families who definitely like do the, the free consult, but are a little bit like, well, we're not sure we hold a lot of doubts about this. And I think one of my, one of the things that I try to bring to that space that is different, I think, than some of the resources out there is that I'm willing to hold space for their doubt and their fear. And, and really reminding parents that like, you can love your kid and Not want this for them. Like both of those feelings can exist in the same moment and the same person, and you still need to show up for them. And so we're going to figure out what's getting in the way of you doing that. Same with the like, kind of parental grief narrative that tends to come up of like, I'm losing my child or I've lost my child. I would much rather have parents talk to me about that than share that with a young person who, You know, come out and shared who they are. They're not dead. They're right there. And it's still the same kid. Maybe they look a little different. Maybe they have a different name. Names are another thing that parents get really caught up on. And you know, names are a gift. We give them with the best of intention, with what the information we have for who that person is at that time. And we know that at some point, if it doesn't fit, we hope that they can release that. Right. But you're talking about like a name change throughout the transition as something, or the yeah, I got it. Okay. Yeah. I could see that. Parents will often be like, but we named them after, you know, our great aunt Shelly or something. They're denying our family by changing their name or something. And it's like, well, you, you know, you had the best of intentions when you chose that name and we know more now. And so what would it look like for us to both honor that that was a beautiful name at the time that you chose it and that your kid is a different, is needing something different now. I can't imagine what it must be like to be a parent in today's world with a young person. I don't have children, although I regret that. I wish that I did. I think, I think it would have been really amazing. But I think about being a parent in today's world, especially if you're not living in, you know, the most progressive of cities or San Diego or LA. And just with all of the barrage of information and misinformation and misunderstanding that comes at us from every angle. It must be incredibly difficult to navigate. I think it's just difficult navigating raising a child period, right? And then you've got to have all of this other stuff on top of it. Is there a common thread in that initial hesitation by a parent to work with you that seems to be. Like I said, common and frequent I'm assuming there's obviously a lot of different conversations going on in their heads, but there is, is there a running theme, like you said, I'm gonna lose my child, or is there something that is, is kind of more consistent throughout most of the cases? I think what I have found to be One of the most effective ways to get parents kind of on board who are feeling some hesitation or kind of stuck is to help them see the ways in which perhaps the limitations of the gender binary have also harmed them. And so by making it personal, then they're like, yeah, wait a minute, this is kind of messed up. Like I did really want to. Beyond the swim team or do whatever the Girl Scouts were doing or like whatever activity it was growing. Mm-Hmm. they were told they couldn't because of their gender or the ways in which they feel like they haven't been able to express themselves. And then you see the gear start turning and they're like, Mm-Hmm. I don't want that for my kid. Mm-Hmm. And so then it's like, okay, great. Now we have some buy-in to realizing that like maybe some of these ideas are socially constructed like weak mm-Hmm. The, like, who your kid wants to be and create space for them to be that. I wanna meet the person who said sometime in the past, that you, a girl can't do this and a guy can't do that. I wanna meet that person. We always talk about this, this narrative, and we're, I, I always wonder who said that. Right? When did that, where did that come from? Mm-Hmm. Well, and there's a really kind of ugly history that's really grounded in colonization, right? But that's what I'm saying. I want to meet that. Yeah. Yeah. But, but, but let's talk about that for a second because colonization was a long time ago. Well, yeah. Yeah. That was a long time ago when we colonized and, and if that conversation still just continues to live on and on and on. And it's almost like, I said this the other day and confused my friend, but I said, You often wonder if that, if you thought that thought. Or did the thought thank you. Oh yeah. And that thought thinking us has us reeling in these conversations that are outdated, that are no longer serving us, that are damaging, if not destroying our relationships and our children and our friendships. And, you know, we're seeing it happen right now, obviously in the, in the environment that we're in and, and yet. I just want to meet that person and say, what were you thinking at that time? And, you know, I agree. I remember being in school and, and although I was dealing with being gay, I wasn't out, obviously, in elementary and in high school, but I remember really wanting to be involved in choir and in drama and in art. And I didn't because, again, back then, We're talking the 80s, early, early 80s. There was a yeah, but conversation about it. And I look back now and think about like what that ripped me off from and also that experience and the exposure. Now I did the next best thing. I was in band, but, but it was, it wasn't the same. And. And yet, you know, I wanted to be an interior designer. I had, all of these very creative ways that I wanted to Express myself when I was in high school and about to go to college and I was told that I couldn't Oh, you're colorblind. You can't be an architect. You can't be an interior designer. It wasn't the gay conversation It was other things that were limiting and I gave up on that and I sit back today as I'm kind of redesigning my future in terms of my career and I'm going, I wonder what would have happened if back then someone said, look, you're colorblind, but we're going to teach you color. We're going to teach you how to experience color. And in doing that, we're going to show you how that can kind of parlay into being an artist. It can parlay into being an architect or an interior designer, whatever you want to be. And yet I've had a very successful career. It's been very creative and I love it. And now I get to do this podcast and I'm experiencing other parts of my creativity. But I look at it now and I think, wow, like what would that have been like if every kid that comes into that space says, I want to do X. And we just went back and went, go for it. Yes. Go for it. I'm so glad you brought that up because I think one of my favorite kind of little anecdotes to use with folks when they're like, why does it seem like all the kids are trans now? Like, it's like, everybody's doing it. Like it's in the water. There was a time when left handedness was also punished and we didn't allow children to write with their left hand. Then when teachers and nuns and whomever stopped punishing them for that, we saw a massive rise in left handedness. The graph of it is really striking. And it wasn't because suddenly people were just giving birth to a shocking number of left handed babies, but because we stopped punishing people for being who they are. And I think that Comes back to your point of like if we just let kids like do whatever activity felt good or wear whatever outfit Spoke to them rather than forcing them to wear a suit or forcing them to wear a dress and having those trying parental moments where it's like, you have to brush your hair. And it's like, why, you know, I don't brush your teeth, but you don't have to brush your hair. I did a conversation several podcasts ago with a female to male trans person who had never told his story on social media and told it on the podcast. And I remember sitting, listening to him share the experience of where he just felt more comfortable in men's and it wasn't until he got a job. at, believe it or not, I think it was Cheesecake Factory, where he got to wear the white pants, the white shirt, and the tie. Yes. And he felt empowered. He put on a suit to go in for a job interview and got that job interview. And it was that moment of, I found myself. I feel comfortable for myself. And I don't think Anybody, parent, government official, teacher, anybody has that right to tell that young person that they don't have the right to feel that way in their own skin. And it's, it's, it's my little Pollyanna world that I hope that someday in our lifetime. And I think I'm seeing some real glimmers of hope right now with this energetic boost that we've had, you know, in the country that I feel as though maybe that little glimmer can take us on this trajectory to where parents are not afraid. Kids are not afraid. We're not afraid for our freedom, for our rights, and for our education, and for learning, and for being creative. And we can just take, even if it's a baby step, that next step into just being ourselves. I call that the sweet spot of the just do you space of being, right? If you could just do you every single day. And I've been talking about this for six months on this podcast, and there are days that I finish the day and I sit down in my living room and the dog's at my side and I'm, you know, I'm having a little, you know, beverage and watching TV. And I'm like, you were just not yourself today. You didn't do you and why? And I take a look at why didn't I, what were the things, the conversations that had me stop that and not be that or not express that. And it's fascinating that Even as a full fledged adult in my late fifties, I still have that conversation of having to remind myself that it's okay. In fact, I had to get it tattooed on my wrist. Just do you just do you. And so I hope that we in this lifetime get to get to experience that because I think it would take a lot of. Yeah. of that anxiety and that pressure off the parent, off the teacher, off the child to just allow us. And I, I know you focus and specialize in that trans conversation, but I would assume this is the same conversation for a child that's, you know, dealing with their bisexuality or being gay or, or lesbian. Yeah. I just don't have as many parents seek me out for that specifically. Because I think, in part, the trans conversation is less familiar. Correct. And then there are the potential medical and other treatment components to it that I think parents start to feel out of their depth. Where they're like, I don't know how to make some of these decisions and so I need guidance in a way that feels different for kids who are trans. LGB plus. But I know what else I'm sorry. I cut you off. Say it again. Oh, I was going to say I have a guide for them too. I have two free parenting guides. One's for trans specific and one's for all the other letters. Yeah. We're going to make sure we put the link to your website in our podcast, social media. For sure. But I I wanted to say something and I just blocked out of my head. I think, Oh I think. In my estimation that the reason why that conversation within the trans community is obvious or in that within the parents and in that community is not so known is that it has been so taboo for so long, but it's not a new concept. It's been around for ever. I think the thing that's fascinating to me is That there's so much misinformation going around and then the people that are telling us that it's wrong and telling us that it's you pick the word that they want to use are that more heterosexual, non, you know, engaged in our community conversation. That was a very eloquent way of saying people who have no idea what they're talking about within the community, because they haven't walked in our shoes is what I really wanted to say. And so in that education of your, you know, social work and dealing with the parents, is there also, the need to educate the teachers and the administrators and also the community about this, it just seems to never end. Like there would be just such an opportunity to educate the community. Everybody about it, including the community, their community members who don't understand it. Oh, they're sometimes the worst actually. Cause they're like, no girl, I already know. And I'm like, no, you don't actually. That was perfect. No girl, you don't. Yeah. Like a part of me is like, okay, do we need to have brunch about it? Like I, like I will give that training. Like if we can gather like all the people who need that. But I think. Yes. And that's why my bio keeps going and going, because I like, can't figure out where the line is to stop because there's like, as I was like, okay, I'm working with the individual. Now I'm working with the parents. Okay. What about the school? What about this? What about that? And so now I also consult for businesses and organizations to make sure that their thousands of employees feel like they can bring their full self to work. And also because those people have queer and trans kids that they're looking to better support, but don't know if they can talk about it at work, like the list goes on. And it's not, it's not a DEI issue, right? It's not an inclusion issue. It is an education issue about human beings and the complexity and the kind of variety, not variety, but the although word just popped out of my head, it's about the complexity and the diversity of our. Own identities of who we are and that's the part where I think people short circuit is that they can't wrap their head around the fact that there could be more than just two options and leave it at that when it's now all bubbling to the surface and I remember a conversation I had many, many years ago that was really uncomfortable and it was very At the time, it was very controversial to have And I remember having the conversation with a group of people and it was very difficult. And I remember watching the light bulb go off on all of these people's heads. And when we left the conversation, out of the seven people that were there, five were like, Literally walked up and said, thank you so much for taking the time to educate me on that, or to have that conversation because I now see a different side to that. I'm still not sure I understand it. I'm still not sure that I, but at least I see a different perspective. And that's why I started this podcast. I wanted our listeners who weren't familiar with the LGBTQ community to maybe kind of come away from a podcast and go, Oh, okay. And I've seen that happen several times on a really big scale. And one conversation in particular revolved around why do we need to call LGBTQ marriages? Why do we need to call it a marriage? Right? Why can't it be called something else? Why do we have to call it spouse? Why can't you call it, you know, domestic partner? And I sat in a meeting where that was described by an organization that really understands why and all the complexities of those thousands of rights that you get under this word marriage. And as we left the meeting, I said to the person that was there that I was trying to educate, and I said, I hope that helped. And this person looked at me and said, I had no idea. That's what it meant. And now I know how to respectfully converse and support this community and why it's so important. I didn't think this person was ever going to, you know, kind of flip the switch. And when I saw that, that's when I realized that we just have to get out there and talk more about these things. We just have to. And, and yet, There's a challenge, Rebecca, and I'm sure you agree with this. There's a challenge about talking about it when there's 7, 000 other things coming at us, we're not just dealing with, Hey, let's sit down and have a conversation about how to support our, you know, gender nonconforming youth. It's a conversation about that while we're navigating. all these other things. And so you and my world are a rock star and your community of, of social workers and therapists. And, you know, it's just so needed because we would live in a very scary place if we didn't have opportunity for people to talk. And I remember hearing someone saying that I want you to address this as well. She's here in San Diego. She's running for school board very Very amazing queer individual married to a man as children, identifies as queer. That was a conversation that people called me and said, how's that possible? I said, wait till I have my conversation with Rebecca and then you'll find out. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about how that works. But I remember her saying you know, just how important it is to just sit and listen. And if, if an LGBTQ person had one person see them, hear them, Experience them, support them. It would cut the suicide rates significantly. Okay. And I wonder if you see that in, in your practice, obviously. I see it without a doubt. And that is the statistic I always come back to when, cause parents will often say, you know, I'm really scared about suicide. If you look at the numbers for trans youth, it's four times the national average. But what you also need to look at is if that trans youth has parental support, if they have community support, if they have one adult doesn't matter, your role could be a neighbor, could be a coach, could be whoever that number drops by 40%. And so. So go back. Cause I want people to hear that. So what's the, the statistic is what statistic is all it takes is one person show up for queer and trans youth to see that who they are. For the suicide rate to drop by 40%, 40 percent is a number that people need to hear. It's 40%, one person huge. That is, it's enormous. When you look at the number of people. And that's why the Trevor project, that's like one of their main statistics that they share all the time. And I love it because. It's so empowering because right so often, so many of these subjects feel really disheartening, like people are like, what am I supposed to do like it feels like every day there's another bill there's another something. How are we ever going to make a difference it feels. insurmountable, but it doesn't have to be like, you don't have to fix the country. You don't have to fix the world, but if you can show up for the one kid in your neighborhood or the one student who, you know, might really need someone to just listen, it's possible. And you could be that person. And they're out there and they're showing up. I just, the podcast that just launched this week. He had a girl come up to him a year later after she came up to his booth at a pride festival and he told her that she mattered and he was the only person that told her that she mattered. And she came back to him the following year at the pride festival, walked up, gave him a big hug. It's gonna make me cry. And he said, she said Tim, you are the reason that I'm here. You're telling me that I mattered, made it so much of an impact on me that that's why I'm still here. And. When I think about that, Rebecca, and when I hear stories like that's why I'm known as the podcast crier. When I hear stories, every single person with the exception of maybe two or three of my podcast guests have had a conversation about suicide at some point in their life, that that was the easier route to take. We've all had it. And that's the conversation that people also need to hear. This isn't just about giving someone the confidence and the posture and the ability and the freedom. It's about dealing with that trauma that they had growing up because we all thought about it. I shouldn't say we all. Many of us thought about it. I want to be respectful and correct with my statement. Many people thought about suicide and as an easier way than dealing with it, but it was that one person. Mine was my mom. I, you know, I knew that she supported me regardless and we didn't have a conversation since I was 24, but all those years I knew she was there. I know so many people who had that one person. And so that 40 percent reduction in suicide should be the number that has people step back and go. Whoa. And yet it doesn't. Right. Why? I think they don't know it. Is it too much for them to take that on? Like is that, is that so outrageous of a number that people don't or can't wrap their head around it and can't engage in it? I wonder that sometimes like, not that they don't know, but is it, they can't just wrap their head around the fact that we could save 40 percent or reduce the suicide rate by 40 percent if we just sat down and had a conversation with someone and show them that we support them. I think people get stuck before they even get to that statistic. Because so they're not hearing it, not hearing it. They, so they see the scary ones and they shut down. Yeah. Right. They see them, the amount of, of suicide. Black trans woman being murdered. They see the rates of trans youth, you know, whether it's self harm or suicidality or a plethora of other mental health issues. And it feels it's an across the board, not just trans youth. But I think for many people, it feels like. What difference could I possibly make? And the reality is you could make a really big one, actually. It breaks my heart. I feel like I say it all the time. Like, I'm like, is anyone tired of me saying the statistic, but I don't care. I'm going to keep saying it. You have to have to. And it's really like, how cool you don't have to be a therapist. You don't have to like be in a specific role. You could be a hairdresser who gives a young person highlights, even if they look terrible, like a picture, I think I have a picture of that somewhere. Yeah. We're going to need to know. Yeah. We'll see it. You're right though. So keep, I didn't mean to interrupt. That was silly. But you know, like it, it's, I think sometimes people feel powerless. Like they're like, I don't know, I'm an accountant. Like, what difference can I make? And it's like, actually you still can, or you can teach a financial literacy class to trans youth because no one else is like, there are other life skills and ways that we can still show up for young people as adults and teach them things that doesn't necessarily have to be specific to their identity, but that can be like, it's. It's a safe place. Like we, I used to work at a camp for trans and gender non conforming kids, and it was just a regular summer camp. So it was like, we're just doing archery and like normal camp stuff, but you can wear whatever you want and we'll call you whatever name you want. And like, you are free to be your full self here. As long as what you're wearing is appropriate in terms of coverage and isn't a danger to you and your peers, like, I was like, honey, we're not canoeing in that. I love it. You know, Rebecca, this is where I go off the rails and I start thinking about what those kids are going through when they don't feel that they have that support and it literally brings me to that Oprah Winfrey cry. And that's sobbing because all these individuals want to be here themselves and they don't understand it or they don't know how to do it or they don't feel supported and yet if we don't educate and we don't talk about it and we don't learn how to support, then that's the part that I get angry. So on the one hand, I sit and I get very emotional and I get incredibly sad. When I put myself into that spot, I don't know what that's like, but I can put myself into that spot of that loneliness and that despair and that resignation. It's like, maybe there is no other option. And yet on the other hand, I know so many people who have made it to the other side of that conversation. And what was that conversation that pushed them through? You know, what was it? Was it someone saying, I see you and support you? Was it something within them? I think that's equally as important and finding that self guided. courage, and it takes one opportunity. And then I've seen these people transition into these beautiful, beautiful human beings and gifts to our community and to the world, and are going out and making incredible differences in, in fields and in areas that are blessed to have them. And Again, I live for the day when we just have a child and we go, Oop, okay, go do you, go be you, and we celebrate every moment of that. And then the world celebrates that. I sometimes wonder, And this could be a whole other conversation for different podcasts. Like what other countries, how they deal with that. Are there other countries that are much more open to this kind of gender fluidity and what that experience is like? That's a world that I live in, that I hope one day we, we see this beauty that everyone is, is a unique individual and that we celebrate that. And I don't want to put you out of work, but out of work for that reason, I have a plenty of shit to do. But like, that's why I really see myself as like. There are probably two kind of broader ways that I would describe what I do besides like being a therapist. I think I'm in the business of generational change. Mm hmm. And I'm in, I'm, I sit with people in the discomfort of uncertainty. Mm hmm. And work. Like I'm referencing back now, probably, I don't know, 15, 20 minutes to something you said, but you're talking about what would it be like if people could just acknowledge that there were more than two options. And I think what's challenging for people about that is that it's one of the earliest, most fundamental things we learn as children is like, girls go over here, boys go over here, or you're this, because you have these parts. And so when we challenge that belief, that's incredibly destabilizing to people's early understanding of the world. And so if that's not true, then what else isn't true? And that's terrifying, so I'd rather just kind of put my head in the sand and not deal with this. And that's where I think we need to constantly be inviting people back to the conversation of getting curious about these things. So that is a perfect segue into an invitation to have you come back again. I know you and I have a very important place to be soon. So I want to make sure we wrap this conversation in that bow. Perfect transition. I do hope you'll come back and have a conversation. I think there is so much to talk about. Your website alone is just a beautiful gift of, of information and support. So we're going to make sure, that people can find that and look more into you. I'm super blessed for today's conversation and I'm appreciative. There was so much more we could talk about and. There's an opportunity, I think, to leave people. It's kind of like a first date, leaving people wanting a little bit more in that next conversation and that next conversation and that next conversation. So again, I will have you back. I do ask all of my guests a question at the very end. And then we'll, we'll wrap this up. But if you could go back to your childhood, to that young Rebecca in elementary school, and you could tell her something about her life today, what would be the thing that you tell her? I think, well, the first thing that came to my mind without censoring it at all is that it's okay to not be okay. And I think that the like kind of classics of like, you can be who you are and love who you love. And it will actually ultimately guide you to what you want to do and, and who you'll become. Do you think that little Rebecca knew who she'd be? At this stage, intuitively, I think to some extent, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's, there's a calmness and a subtlety in the way you talk and in the way you communicate. I have noticed that throughout this entire conversation. That is something that I don't think you learn. You can learn. the data, you can learn the statistics, you can learn the algorithm, you can learn all of that. But what you cannot learn is that space of, of being in the moment being in in the space to allow people to thrive and to grow and to just simply be. And I think that's something that comes from our childhood. And so I'm super, super grateful that that little girl is here. I say this a lot, but the world is a much better place with you in it. And I know that there are families and children out in the world who are incredibly grateful to you and your space that you hold for them. And I'm so thrilled. We got this opportunity to come together and talk today. I really appreciate the time and I'm so grateful. Yeah. Well, I'm looking forward to our second date. I am too. I haven't said that in a while. My dating coach is going to be thrilled. It was a past guest on episode two or three, and I've hired him as a dating coach and he's like, we're going to celebrate when you get to the second date. I didn't know it was going to be surprise. It's a woman, it's a woman that'll blow everyone's mind for sure. How it's possible to be queer and I love it. I think so. And that was something that I really wanted to talk about. We just didn't have enough time today let's talk about that opportunity to like, love who you love and have that be a little bit more fluid. And maybe in this stage in your life, you know, it is something that is intriguing and interesting. So that second date is going to be a blast. Again, thank you for being here, Rebecca, and I wish you the best. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just do you pod. As you go out into the world today, remember to just do you. All right. Talk next week.