PRIDE REPLAY - S1E24 with Johnnie Ghiglia - A Father's Love & Acceptance

🌈 Pride Episode Replay

This week, I’m honored to sit down with Johnnie Ghiglia, a retired law enforcement officer from Arizona whose life took a profound and beautiful turn when his son, Chase, came out as gay. What followed wasn’t rejection or resistance — but an outpouring of unconditional love that has since grown into a powerful movement of acceptance, advocacy, and support.

Together, Johnnie and Chase co-founded OUT IS THE NEW IN, a nonprofit organization committed to uplifting the LGBTQ+ community — with a focus on suicide prevention, mental health awareness, and homelessness support. What started as a personal journey of growth and understanding has now become a beacon of hope for countless LGBTQ+ individuals and families.

In this heartfelt conversation, Johnnie shares his story of growing up in a conservative farming town, navigating the complexities of identity and parenthood, and ultimately building a life centered on compassion and purpose. His unwavering love for Chase is palpable — a testament to the healing power of family when it chooses love over fear.

Johnnie isn’t just standing by his son — he’s standing up for an entire community. Through his voice, his podcast, and his advocacy, he's showing the world what true allyship and fatherhood look like.

🌈 This episode is a moving reminder that when love leads the way, transformation follows.  Happy Pride Everyone! 

🔗 Learn more about Johnnie, Chase, and their incredible work at https://outisthenewin.org

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

Remember to like, rate, share and subscribe to the JUST DO YOU. podcast in order to receive our weekly episode updates!  If you like what you hear, please leave us a review at Apple Podcasts!

To follow us on Instagram, visit: https://www.instagram.com/justdoyoupod/

Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Just Do You Podcast. My name is Eric Nicoll, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation and if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. I. The Just Do You Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire us, to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the Just do you space of being. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly gonna laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we are gonna know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. All right, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I am so excited to be sitting down today with Johnny Gilea. Hi, Johnny. Hello, Eric. How are you? I am so good. Thank you so much for joining me today. I am so thrilled that we were actually able to make this happen. Today is a super special day here in San Diego. It's the last day of San Diego pride. So it's been a really remarkable weekend of celebrating with our LGBTQ plus family and our allies. And so I could not think of a better host or a better guest, actually, and host to actually have this conversation today, you are a podcast host yourself. Let's just, Why I said that, but we'll talk about that in a minute. But for those that are listening today Johnny is the founder along with his son, Chase of an organization called Out Is The New In. And we're going to talk about that organization. I became aware of this organization several months ago and was really taken not only by Johnny's story, but ultimately then by listening to Chase's story. on Johnny's podcast, which he hosts and Chase was a guest. And so Johnny, what I'd love to do today a little bit is talk about you, you are obviously the father of Chase who is out and proud and a human being. So we're gonna talk a about that, but I'd love to go back bit further and just give everyone a little bit of background of who you are and what you've done. And then let's just launch into. This conversation sitting around your family room, talking about how you can support chase and how this was all born. Please let's get into it. Thank you. And first and foremost, I am honored to be on your podcast and to have met you to launch pride month on the first and Oceanside. Yeah. for you to come and walk into my booth and introduce yourself and then tell me that you were looking for me. And I was like, stunned. I'm like, what are you talking about? And then telling me that you had watched one of the episodes, the first episode with Chase and to know that somebody in California Watching or listening meant to everything. It was really cool to hear that. But no, I yeah, I was born in Reno, Nevada raised on a very large ranch that my grandfather had purchased just out in between Fallon, where I really grew up and went to high school. And Reno we literally had roughly 3, 000 acres land, a thousand head of cattle. So I grew up doing all the cowboy little cowboy things with cattle and roundups and all of that. And really it instilled a work ethic for me when I was very young, just all that very hands on work. And grew up in Fallon, very small, conservative, a little small town of dairy ranches and farmers and a lot of it was everybody knew everybody because we had maybe 13, 000 people in the town when I was growing up. My family was a part of the First Baptist Church. My dad was a trustee, so it was a born again Christian setting, and that's where, how I was raised. Move forward graduate went to school. Really didn't know what I wanted to do. So I went to a couple different junior colleges up in Northern California, went to Chico State for a little bit and then finally realized I had a roommate and he and his brother and one of them was in sports medicine, athletic training. So it was a cool little niche for me. After I'd injured myself several times running track, And so I I got into that and it just clicked for me. I didn't know why, but it just, it did. So I jumped into that, moved to Reno and finished up my bachelor's and master's in athletic training, sports medicine at the university of Nevada. So during that time I had met Denise, who then became my wife and she had a little four year old little girl. So I've done with school and I get a job offer in Tucson with an orthopedic surgeon. And I ended up going down there first job, I'm like, Oh my gosh, this is so cool. This is we're really launching out and this is our life. Get down there, work for him and his physical therapy clinic. I was there for one year. And during that time we had Chase and Chase was born in Tucson, but he was born with a cleft lip and palate. We knew that he was going to have numerous surgeries to repair the lip, the palate extensive orthodontia, speech pathology, all kinds of things. And really numerous surgeries up until he was roughly 17 years old. Wow. So he had his first initial surgery down there at three months old. I applied for the head athletic training position at Grand Canyon university. Not thinking I had a shot at it whatsoever. And I get this random phone call from the orthopedic surgeon that interviewed me. And he's Hey, you and your family want to move up to Phoenix. I'm like, you're kidding, right? He's nope. He goes, come on up. So I started in 96 there. And ran that program. And then I had the option of teaching as well, which was, I love teaching. And so I got to teach I designed an athletic training practicum class for my student trainers. I also got to teach kinesiology, exercise, phys, and health and wellness. So I did that for about three and a half years. And then. left there, went to Spooner Physical Therapy in Scottsdale, Arizona. So I'm there roughly, man, maybe six months. I'm rehabbing roughly five Scottsdale cops and one of them asked me if I had ever thought of law enforcement. Never in my lifetime I had ever thought of being a cop. So he's hey, he goes, there's room for advancement. Great health care, great pension. He's really selling it. I went home and presented it to Denise at the time. And she's you know what? Do what's going to make you happy. So I called one of my best friends back in Reno, who was a cop there. And it was absolutely hilarious. Phone call. He's dude, you need to do it. He goes, last job. He goes, get your 20, get your pension and get out, go do something different. He gave me some amazing advice that I shared with the department, my last email when I retired. So I did 21 years and his advice was so good about. Knowing that politics is everywhere, no matter where you choose to go, whether that's corporate America or government position, wherever. And he goes, you need to make a conscious decision on how you allow those politics to affect you in your personal life and at work. And secondly, he's Hey, he goes law. He goes, is black and white on certain occasions, he goes, but there's so much gray that you get to play in. He goes, you are affecting people's lives. He goes, so play in the gray as much as you possibly can. And I took that with me my entire career. So I choose to, the negativity, just so much surrounding me and the department as a whole back in. COVID when it hit early 2020 it was rampant and everybody, nobody knew what to do. Everybody got shut down. It changed so many people and really affected people's mental health. And I saw that daily call after call. And it just, it was crazy how many people. I ended up referring to our we have a civilian unit, at least with Scottsdale, where it's a crisis intervention support staff team. And we were referring everybody to them. They were getting inundated. So here come the riots. Here come the protests. Everything started happening right at the end of 2020 ish, middle of 2020. And I just, Everything just started compounding on each other. And so I'm like, you know what? I don't know if I want to do this anymore. And I literally was sitting on the couch with my laptop looking at my calendar and I go, you know what? I just I just think it's time to find something else to do. And during that time during my career I ended up going through a divorce. And just prior to all of these decisions I'd made about big life moving intersections, right? Chase had come out at 17. Jump back from 17 years old and there was a holiday, I believe it was around Christmas time. And we were in the kitchen, just the two of us. Talking and she looked right at me and she goes, Hey, I know how conservative your family is, how conservative you are, how you were raised. She goes, you really need to prepare yourself. And I looked at, I don't even know what the topic is. What are we talking about? She goes, Chase is gay. And I go, hold on. I go, wait a second. He's five years old. And she goes, Johnny, you need to prepare. Chase is gay. And at that time I'm like okay he's five okay. I've had so many conversations since with so many people in there, like one individual actually said you could actually look at it and go, you had 12 beers to prepare. And so what he did come out. His biggest concern were the people I worked with because I was at the police department and he's yeah, dad, but you're a cop. And I go, okay, I don't understand. What does that mean? And he goes, you work with these big macho ego guys. And he was more concerned about them and maybe how they viewed it than I did. And I looked right at him and I said, Chase, I go, here's the thing. I know who those people are. I don't know if I really see eye them and their views at work. I go, but the biggest thing is. If they can't accept you for who you are, I said, they're no longer a friend of mine. I go, it's very simple for me. I go, it's about you. I said, you need to be alone. So Johnny hold that thought for a second. Cause I want to go back just cause I think this is really important. So thank you for letting me interrupt. So back when he was five and you were having this conversation in the kitchen and you said, and you had that thought, right? Like she said, you just need to prepare yourself. Was there a moment of given your background and given how you were raised and given where you'd come from, was it more, okay, is what it is. And we'll see, I'm just curious because that's the pivotal moment in so many kids lives. And why I was excited to have this conversation with you today is because, so many kids. don't have that opportunity or terrified. I didn't come out until I was 24 years old. I could have told my mom when I was 12, but I waited 12 years. So I'm really intrigued by that moment when you had that conversation in the kitchen at the first time, what that was like for you, if you don't mind sharing. Absolutely. It was the latter. For me, it was like, okay. Even though he's five, he is my son, he's my child. And it just it just went from there. I, we really have much more conversation of that even that topic. And it just moved forward. And I, I observed, over the year of the 12 years, I'm like, okay. He's just. He's more feminine, right? In my mind. I never like really locked it in that. Chase is truly gay. So when he did come out and we did have that conversation I was extremely accepting. So was she the family, everybody was, so that was such a benefit for him knowing since then gosh, that was man, he was 17 and now he's 28. So 11 years ago. So in that 11 year span of time, the amount of people I've met. In the gay community that have told me, to my face, a complete opposite story of their parent or parents who were not accepting and, that, that process of how that affected them in so many pieces of their life. And so It's something that's interesting because my when I first met you and you had said that you were a retired cop, that was my first thought was what was that like, right? Because again, there's an assumption that we all have in this world that we live in, right? And especially because we don't have experience. I don't have police and law enforcement in my family. I have medical and teachers and all those other things, but I didn't. And so my first thought was, wow that's going to be an interesting conversation around the water cooler. Is that something that was difficult for you? Yeah. Or because you had this sense of that time to maybe process and deal and watch and observe. Also, I would think based on what you'd said earlier was, in that field, you're seeing a lot of trauma. You're also seeing, I'm sure a lot of life's experiences, right? Which I would assume as a police officer, you have to learn how to navigate that in your daily life. Is that correct? Because I'm sure you're seeing things not every day, but things that are difficult or that you have to know how to navigate. And so do you think that taught you all of those other experiences, although very different, also then taught you that tolerance or that kind of acceptance later on down the road with Chase Yes. Yeah, a big yes to that. Yeah. That question. I and I did, I saw the gamut of things and especially in the different units that I was a part of through my 21 years. There was a span of time, my last four and a half years ish. I worked. a shift where I was a sergeant for a downtown unit in Old Town Scottsdale Bar District Friday, Saturday nights. I saw everything that you can imagine throughout that time. But And I dealt with a lot of people that identified in the community and having those conversations and, things that would happen type crimes or not, or just, conversations good, bad, indifferent it happened every weekend. Something. What happened. Yeah. So Chase is a, so you have the two children, right? So it's Chase and Nicole was my stepdaughter. Yeah. Stepdaughter. And what was the age difference between the two of them? Roughly nine years. Okay. It's a good chunk. It's a good chunk. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. But they got along very well. And they still do to this day. Yeah. They have a great relationship. Yeah. So as a father and as the mindset that comes with being a father and being a parent in that moment that he did come out to you. And I'm listening very intently and I'll share with you why when I met you initially, and you were telling me the story I got a little jealous because I said to myself, as I was walking away with my out is the new in Tumblr in hand the bright yellow, which I have sitting right next to me daily because it's a wonderful reminder. But I didn't have that experience. My parents were divorced and I shared with my dad. He was a very smart man. He had multiple degrees and a PhD. And unfortunately, I think he had a very troubled. I didn't think he had a very troubled life. And so his acceptance of me was never discussed. We never talked about it. He was never vocal about it, but I didn't have that experience with him that. Chase had with you. And that's why I was so intent of calling you. I think when I got back to the house that day and saying, Hey, let's jump on this podcast because I think there's a really powerful story here to tell. Yeah. And I thank you so much. That opportunity. Yeah, you're welcome. And I think what's so important right now, and again, just having come off of pride weekend, I'm very sensitive to this. Conversation right now, because when I sat and I watched everyone show up at Pride and see the families that were there and see the young people that were there, we're in a very different time than I'm much, much older than Chase. But when I came out, we didn't have. At least that I didn't know about the pride festivals and the parent groups and the languaging and the support. We didn't have any of that, and as I was wandering around feeling very old at pride this year feeling very old I watched this youth and realized I'm like with everything that's going on in the world right now, and especially in our country and the kind of chaos that we're in, this is the next generation of the LGBTQ community. And I posted with your shirt on that out is the new insured very powerful day for me walking around in that shirt, but I realized that, not only are we unstoppable, but we are a force to be reckoned with. And I truly believe that whether it's the parents in our lives or the community that serves us or the organizations that are there for us and to support our community and support our youth is how we are going to survive as an LGBTQ plus community. We would not be able to survive without the allies, without the organizations and without the parents and the family members that support, their LGBTQ family members. And so I'm super grateful to you for all of that. what you're doing with Out is the New In and I want to talk a little bit about that and then we'll go to the podcast and Chase's episodes because I'm still enamored by those episodes. I listened while I was in the car driving quite a bit and I thought this kid has got his act together. So I'm not sure where Chase is going in the world, but I already got that. I don't know where he got that at all. But so talk a little bit about the organization. So you're having this conversation on how to support chase and the community. Where did this, first of all, what a great name, right? You capitalized on something that is super powerful out is the new in just resonates not only with me, but with so many people. So talk a little bit about how you came how this came to be and what the intent was. I could share what the mission statement is. I read it and I loved it, but I want you to tell what was your vision on that? Yeah. So Interesting story for sure. Having that conversation with chase and really telling him that he should be allowed to be his own authentic, unique self, whatever that is, it should be allowed to love whoever he wants to. And then that literally, that was a car ride going to the airport. Oh, wow. Yeah. And it was just Denise and I and chase. Because she and I had a trip planned, and he was going to drive the vehicle back home and get to hang out by himself. Oh wait, it happened in the car at that point? Oh gosh. Yeah, he, you know what's interesting is he I was at work, I was in a detective unit at the time, and I got this strange, call. The time of the day was odd and it was her. So I answered it and I'm like, Hey what's going on? And she goes, Chase wants to talk to you. And I just, I immediately knew what the topic was. I don't know why just hit me. And I go, he's going to tell me he's gay. And she goes, huh. And I go, okay, cool. I'm going to call him. And I did. And he said that he would much rather talk to me in person. And I said, absolutely. I said, I'll see you at home tonight. And he never came. And how old is he? How old is he? 17. 17. Okay. 17. So some guts to actually want to talk to mom and dad in person. That's great. I love it. Yeah. He never came home. He spent the night with his friends, but I knew he had to be home the next day. That's right to the airport. So I'm literally looking in the rear view mirror and that's when I brought it up and I said, Hey, I know you want to talk to me. I know I have a feeling. I know what the topic is. And I just went with it. And that's when it all came out. Move forward, go through my divorce. And just before there was a conversation, Chase was attending ASU now for a couple semesters, living at home. And she wanted to talk to him in the family room, he comes out and she goes, I've been thinking, how can we give back and support you in the community? And. Denise is the one that came out with out as the new in she threw out the slogan. And so we all looked at each other and we're like, Oh my goodness, that's really cool. That's really catchy. And we all liked it. It was about a 10 minute conversation. Nobody came up with amazing ideas at that point in time. And it just sat there, but the big period at the end of it, and I go through life experience with a divorce and I'm living alone. At a house that I bought and I literally one day I woke up with visions of logos of out as a new in, and I just grabbed paper in the kitchen and started drawing them everything that kind of came in my head. And then I look at something, and it would spur another. Little idea. And I draw that and another idea. And I still have those pieces of paper. And so I jumped on the phone and I called chase and he had left ASU and now was attending the art center college of Pasadena. Oh, very cool. So I called him and I said, This is crazy. I don't know why this is happening and I can't explain it, but I truly believe there's a reason for it. I just don't understand it right now. And I said, I'm thinking, what if we come up with maybe a small little logo and maybe we can do some hats and shirts. And he's cool, dad, whatever you want to do. I'm like, okay. I go, I don't know what I'm doing. I have no idea. This is all brand new. I go, can you help me with the logo since this is what you're doing? Yeah. Dad, I am so crazy busy. I got work, I got school, I got projects, all these things. And I go, you're serious. I go, where do I start? So he gives me a bunch of advice. And so I just start drawing everything. He goes, send everything to me. I'll tell you what to tweak and all this stuff. And took a little bit of time, but then all of a sudden he's yeah, that's it. And it's this, it's literally a small little square that we came up with for kind of just a chest piece for shirts and hats. I sat in front of my computer and I typed in how to start a business and it gave me, I think it gives you like 12 steps. Now I'm like, Oh my gosh, that's attainable. And I just started checking them off. And one at a time reached out to some friends that had, some screening people that they knew prior. And I met with those people and this one gentleman, he's Oh my gosh, he goes, I love this idea. I love what you're doing. He goes, let's do this. So I got some hats and shirts done and that was in 2017 when that all came together. In 2018, after I got my hats and shirts I realized, okay, I have some inventory, I have some ideas, I've developed a mission, a vision and I just went, oh my God, I've never been a part of the community. So I type in Pride events and I see Pride in the Pines up in Flagstaff. And I'm like, Hey, that's June. Let's get out of the heat of Phoenix. And my biggest thing, my whole mentality was go meet people and just have a conversation. So I get up there and I have to tell you, Eric, that was probably the most powerful day in my life. So I get up there. I set up and people are coming up to me going, I've never heard of you. I was in the wind. What are you? Why are you here? Why are you here? Yeah. Yeah. And I just, I'm like, currently I'm a cop. My son just came out. This was the conversation I had, and I had people on the other side of the table break down and tell me that their parents had never, ever accepted them like I did chase. Hearing that I, it was very foreign to me. Cause I'm in my bubble and don't chase his friends. Everybody's very accepting family. And so when I say powerful, it was just. so many hugs to let people know that I'm there to help support, accept, love, and literally realizing that there are so many people that just Chase and his friends that need that. So that's, that was the cue for me my why and my purpose that day in how The idea, the initial idea I had of how to give back was now bigger than I would ever be in my entire lifetime because there were so many more people and I didn't know what that looked like. I didn't know when it was going to happen. I came back to work. And what was really cool for me is the people that worked for me at that time were so supportive and literally, in. Once again, in law enforcement, you might have that thought process and, you might, Oh my goodness. How accepting are they? Are they not? Are they at all? And having them just go, this is so cool to have, to see you do a father, son thing. And I had people that I had people working for me. They're like, Hey, when do I get some free swag? Cause I'm like, I'm going to be your ambassador, man. It's okay, all right. I got you. But yeah, it just totally kicked off. I had the acronym is O I T N I and that day in Flagstaff, I actually had a girl come up and she goes, what's OITNI? I had never heard it. I had never heard it, a sound, a name, whatever you want to say put to it. And I had no idea what she was talking about. And I let her know, I go, I'm sorry. I don't know what that is. And she goes, yeah, OITNI. And I go. I don't know. She goes, it's right behind you. And I had a banner and I had to walk up to my banner and I pointed at each letter and I said out in, and she goes Oh God, I love it. I gotcha. But when I did go back and I told everybody the story of Hoytney, I had one guy worked for me and he's Oh my gosh, you need to come up with a cocktail and call it an Oitini. I was like, Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I love that. But the tumbler, the yellow tumbler. Yeah. But no no finding my purpose that day, it literally, it, Everything came together exactly as it should. I was, I look back at life and go, even though it was not a fun time going through a divorce, it's exactly what was supposed to happen in my path, my journey to have that happen and then build something with Chase. and being able to build it and then have the idea of how do we give back. And one of the biggest things I told him is everything that I had seen in, probably at that point in time, it might've been, I might, might've had 15 years on somewhere around there. And I just said, Chase, I go, I would really like to give back to nonprofits that focus on suicide prevention, mental health and homelessness within the youth age group. And That was what was really cool is he's just cool, dad, whatever you want to do, let's just do it. I'm like, all right let's move forward with it. Once I finally retired, I said, I want to focus on this. This is the piece of my life that I want to see how big I can make it. The idea was the bigger I can make it, the more I can get back. And I said, I want to rebrand. I want a website. I want all these pieces. I want to be really present on social media. And a door opened and I met this gentleman who was part of a B& I chapter, Business Network International. The worldwide chapters, right? The networking, the referral system, all of that, right? Thank you for closed business and the support was huge. So I joined one of the biggest chapters in the state of Arizona. And Everybody I was supposed to meet, God had me meet, and I have my 501c3 now for three years, and I met a mentor who had hers, and I'm on her board, Lights, Camera, Discover, and Kima Charles is an amazing human being in what she does. And I met people for the website, I met people for social media, and, it served its purpose for a year and a half. And now I'm meeting so many people and going and doing booth events and I told Chase, I want to rebrand. I go, let's come up with a new design. And he's my design kid. And so he's yeah, dad, I got you. And he sent me. The newest logo that we have on the t shirts, the vision series, the horizon series the hats. And then I just was like, Oh, let's do tumblers. Let's do silly pint cups. Let's just do stickers. Let's do whatever we can and get it out there. Yeah. I want to pause for a second because I want to go back. I've been known as the podcast crier, I appreciate the opportunity to presence that moment. But in all seriousness, I think that's a really important kind of moment because you share, I'm not going to cry, but you share that moment of that. First opportunity when people came up and said, you know what they said to you always feel like if somebody who may have a conversation about the LGBTQ community or an assumption about the community, if they would spend some time and sitting down and having a conversation with a chase. Or, a Johnny, or I've interviewed and had conversations with the trans community, with the lesbian community, with people of color. If they would sit down and have a conversation with them and learn a little bit about them and about their journey. My hope is that the world would shift a little bit. And so in that moment where you're standing in this booth, not knowing what you're doing for the most part self described, and you're not sure why you're there in that moment where these people are coming up and sharing these stories with you is something that if you listen to any podcast that I've done in the past six months is the same conversation is that moment of being seen, being heard, being seen. Acknowledged. And it's so important. There's a guy who I just interviewed who it's called stand in for pride, right? So he stands in for people who don't have family. And, when I interviewed him, he said the same thing that you said, he said, I had no idea what I was doing. I thought it was stood in for someone at their wedding and thought it was great. And the next thing, I'm on the news and we're now international. And the thing that I love about that and what I love about you is there's a humbleness to you and to the others that I've interviewed and had conversation with, the humbleness is the beautiful part of the power. of the conversation that you are. Does that make sense? That was a little bit too wordy for me, even me, but hopefully that makes sense. It does. Yeah. Is this as much bigger than you standing at a pride show booth. This is about you showing, you showing parents, you showing children, you showing communities, you showing police departments and other organizations that. It doesn't matter who you are is X, Y, and Z. And that's the beautiful part. And so I didn't want to, I loved everything that followed that, but I didn't want to look past that because I think so many parents don't know how to navigate this or to navigate the process of even starting the conversation of how do they support their child? Who's LGBTQ plus, how do they give back? And I think there's also a fear. At a lot of times, like I don't necessarily, what if someone finds out what if it were, the neighbor or aunt Susie or, uncle Pete, whatever the case may be. And I'm super grateful that whatever the conversation was that had you move through that to just unconditionally support chase. And not only that find this opportunity for you and he to build something together is a beautiful thing. Cause that doesn't happen very often. Yeah, it just, it all came together and I I'm extremely blessed for all of this to come into the path that it did. I didn't know that God would give me a gay child. I didn't know that I was, I would be a cop. I, that was the last thing on my mind. I was pursuing division one or professional position in athletic training. That was my path, at least my plan in my head, and then the man upstairs definitely has other plans. And my biggest thing is. that I like to tell people is you may have an idea of what that path is. You might have a passion, right? And think, your purpose is this direction. And I love to tell people that I love that about them, but also understand that There may come a time when you need to pivot and when that does come, just welcome that door right and let it open and see what it is. And maybe it is the direction you should go or it's not. And if a door needs to close, let it close. Don't fight it and just keep moving forward with whatever that path is. And. I might have three more journeys, at my age and my profession and what I'm doing now in behavioral health. Just be aware of what's coming to you, those messages, or just, you might meet someone new over coffee and just that conversation just flips a switch and you go a different way. And it's exactly where you're supposed to be. Yeah. I do want to say a so powerful and so true, right? And I do want to talk a little bit about the mental health component and kind of your commitment and passion to that. But I also want to acknowledge one thing, and I think this is really important. And you have said several times throughout the conversation, and you just said it, that God gave you this gay son. And I think that is a really beautiful sentiment to your faith and to your beliefs. Many times religion can play a very Unfortunate part in the process and the journey of a lot of LGBTQ people and how they were raised and the judgment. And what I love is that you embrace that and that conversation that he brought you chase. Cause it's a beautiful sentiment. I believe that as well, right? I am not the most religious person, but I do believe that, you were brought chase because there is not only this beautiful relationship with the two of you, you can tell it just this kid opens up to you like no other kid I've heard open up to a parent on the podcast. The conversation that you two had during the, I think it was three episodes of the podcast, he really opened up to you and said things very directly and very openly to you. And I watched the two of you and it was a really Yeah, it was a really beautiful conversation. Beautiful conversation. So I do believe that, and I'm grateful that you said that because I want people to realize that it's not always a bad experience, right? It's not always. Yes. Correct. And I look at life. Sure. I was raised, in a very hardcore conservative born again, Christian setting. And I look at life now and go, I, I don't consider myself religious. I just consider myself having a relationship with my higher power, whatever you want to call it, our God, whatever that is. And I look at life and especially after the divorce and just doing a lot of introspection of who I was during that career and how that truly affected me, how it affected the family. It was it definitely changes you. Good, bad, indifferent. So now getting back and completely out of that setting, I feel like I've truly been able to find myself again and who I was before I went into that. And and then having, Chase come out And going he's my only child. And, I love him unconditionally for who he is. And yes, when you say that he's very directed, he'll say, he's very opinionated. And I love that about it, and there are times we have conversations and I go, you know what, we can agree to disagree on certain things. But he's very passionate about his thought process and just. who he is as a human being. And I told him when he asked when he got to, he's like, when do I get to be on it? And I had to take a step back because, after the divorce, there's been times when our relationship has not been good. And there was a span of time where we really didn't communicate much. And so I said, okay, what would you like the topic to be? This could be very raw, very emotional. And I said, I'll prepare for that. And he goes, yeah, dad, I don't know. I was thinking we could just talk about the gays. And I go, absolutely. I go, that's what we can talk about. And what I love about, at least on my platform is like you said, having a conversation and whatever that is, what do you want to share that you feel safe in sharing? Then that's what we'll talk about. And I just let people go. And just tell their authentic, true story of them, of who they are as a human. Yeah. And there's an opportunity when you listen to your podcasts and the guests, especially the guests that I think you just had on or the most recent episode super powerful and everyone's different, right? Everyone's telling a different story. Because again, everybody has a different story to tell. And so I think when you give people, and I found this through my podcast as well, when you give people the opportunity to be comfortable and to feel safe and to share, they will share things with you that you did not expect. You had that same experience and a lot of times in this kind of free formed podcast format where it's a conversation like you and I were sitting down having a coffee, we're not scripting this and we're also not editing it at all. And there have been times where I went, Whoa, okay. Here we go. Here we go. How's that one going to land? And of a couple coming up where I'm just, yeah I'll leave it there. But I think the thing that's so great about you and your podcast and also because you can hear the out is the new in. Concept and construct in your podcast is what it's called But I believe that who you are and the presence that you are and the gift that you are and the openness that you are allows people to really share and shine brightly and share stories that I think are super impactful. And I believe I started this podcast in it's been six months, but I did it because I felt so disconnected from people after the pandemic and after being sequestered for so long, and I was dealing with my own divorce, I got divorced in 2019 finalized two months before the pandemic, going to start my life over again and look what happened. We went right into seclusion and. There were years, two years, 20 to 22 of this solitude and this depression and this anxiety. And it wasn't until a friend of mine said, you got to launch this podcast because it's a great concept. And there's a whole story behind how I came up with the name and how I launched it, but it really was about finding your voice and finding your confidence and finding your passion and having authentic conversations that may sting a little bit, but it really was designed to be honest. To given the state of the country we were in, it was to really give people who may be listening an opportunity to maybe learn something a little bit different about a person or a community or a belief that they had that could shed some light and have you go. Huh. This is a conversation. We're going to have a conversation about something that may be difficult, but we're going to learn something. And I really feel that's what you're doing around this conversation of mental health and around this conversation of suicide. And one of the things that I have found so shocking in, in, in surprising in this journey of my podcast is the amount of shame and guilt that we have. And depression and anxiety that has come from something as simple as just being oneself true self and what that does. And it wasn't until I started dealing with my own anxiety that I realized there are so many people out there struggling. And if we don't have the conversations like you're having it. Almost causes it to be more taboo or under the table. And I think we have this incredible. opportunity in this current world we live in to talk about it and to say, it's okay. And here's the resources. You give the resources on your page, right? So important. Here are the resources. And also know when I say it in my intro, you're not alone. You're not alone. And maybe you just need a hug. Maybe you just need a hug, or maybe you need someone to listen to, or maybe you just need someone to say, Hey, I have felt alone. And this organization that you have makes me feel not alone anymore. And so I'm, again, just really, that's why I was so taken by you when I met you. There were a lot of wonderful organizations there that day. But I tend to find, right. Universe puts it in your pathway, right? People that make you stop and think. And when I walked away from that booth, I thought, now here's a guy that could have taken a completely different path and a completely different journey. And I did not expect your story to come out of your mouth. And you told me, I thought, Oh, here's this really handsome gay guy with this great product line called out the new in how cool is that? Had no idea that you were. This father of a gay kid with this organization. And I meant that in the most polite ways. I was, I said to my friend, Mike, he's a really good looking guy. I had no clue. But again, Opportunity to really learn something new because the more we can have, again, these kind of conversations and then to meet Chase and to listen to his story, I really believe is going to resonate with a lot of people. It's again, something that I think his ability to be so comfortable with you as his father is beautiful. I don't see that a lot. In the the LGBTQ community. So I just, again, I'm really grateful that he has that relationship with you and you with him. Thank you so much for those kind words. Yeah. I I'm very grateful for who he's turned into be he's such a good kid. He's very driven he's doing very well in Detroit where he's working out there now. And he loves what he does. And we talk. weekly now just catch up on everything that's going on with work and, life and everything. And going back to, like when we talk about hearing and seeing an individual, that for me is by far the most important and when I do go to my booth events, I've been so blessed and being able to, I've done I did Oceanside this year. I don't miss Flagstaff since 2018. That event is just so fun for me. I've done Las Vegas and then, I've done so many different family events here in Queen Creek and Gilbert, Chandler, Tempe, Mesa I've been all over, The valley. And just for me, Every time I set up, I don't care what I sell. It's not about the financial piece for me. It's truly about the conversations, the authentic conversations that I am hoping I get to have that people will share. And, Phoenix pride I've been there three, four years now. I think two years ago I had an amazing human come up to me, talk to me about what they were, they really didn't share a tremendous amount of what they were going through in their mental space at that point in time in their life. But a year later that day. I just, before they walked away, I let them know that they had a purpose in life and A year later, they came back to my booth and let me know and shared more that they had a tremendous amount of suicidal ideology and I had no idea. And let me know that when I told them that they had a purpose in life, that is why they're still here today. And I just, I tried not to break down. I got chills and I'm like, wow. That is so powerful. That was just you're hoping for just one person that you can make contact with to change a mindset. And I was so grateful that they should. And that's going to ripple out because there's statistics. Several people have talked about it on my podcast. An LGBTQ person has one person see them and hear them and experience them. It cuts the suicide rate dramatically. That statistic, that you've heard it. And I think that's the thing that makes me so happy about and hopeful knowing that there are organizations like yours spread across the country, but the difference that you're making, and that one conversation is also trickling out because they're going to take what they've heard from you. They're going to take that moment of, I do matter. I do make a difference out into the world and maybe change someone else's life. And so that's where I really believe that it takes one person. You can say this too, as a podcast host, you don't know who's listening. Really? We really don't. Our friends say they're listening and how great it is. It's like love that last episode and you're like, Okay, but who else is listening out in the world, right? Aside from my mother and my aunt and my best friend, right? And you think that sometimes as a podcast host, right? You do. You're like, am I touching people? And then it takes that one opportunity for someone to send you a note and say, I changed my mind about something listening to your podcast with somebody who transitioned from male to female. And it was in that conversation that changed my life. And opened up a door for me to have a different conversation about how I feel about the trans community and that one text message that I got changed my whole perspective because I knew that we made a difference in one person's life. And so when we talk about the, and this could be a whole other podcast, when we talk about the kind of mental health and the kind of opportunity that we have to help the LGBTQ community in dealing with that, I think is something that you do very well. And I'm curious with you, what is, what do you see the future? Cause I think you and I could talk for a very long time, but what do you see is the future of out as the new and what do you want to see happen in the next five years, 10 years? Like, where do you see this going? Oh, I love that. That's a great question. Yeah, the bigger the better, right? I think it'd be cool to potentially develop some behavioral health resource programs, right? And get out and actually present certain topics within the community. I, not only do I. I now work full time for a behavioral health hospital here in Tempe which that door, I didn't know that was coming. That door opened over two years ago I was at a mental health America seeds conference in Mesa and meeting tons of people in behavioral health. And I had a lady come to my table. Out as the new in, I was asked to be there and represent the non profit. And so I'm having this conversation, she goes, what do you got going on here? So I told her all about it, what I'm doing, and she goes, I want to learn more. Literally a week later, we're at lunch. I said, I want to learn about mental health. So much more about mental health. I said, that's what I'm keen off of and giving back to. I go, that's my focus. And she goes, Oh my goodness, I know somebody who's hiring. And two days later, I was in an office at Aurora for a community liaison position. And I got hired a week later. And so I look at that and go, that absolutely was That was my higher power going, Johnny, this is exactly where you're supposed to be. And this is how you give back in that setting. Now, the podcast idea came after meeting so many people in the community at all my events and who shared stories with me. I'm like, Oh my goodness, how. And what can I do to allow them to share that? So the podcast idea hit me and I said, I want people to share their coming out story, whether that's good, bad, indifferent, allyship, parents, whoever wants to sit down with me and then getting into behavioral health and meeting so many people in that arena. And sharing their story of trauma, addiction, sobriety, whether they're straight or gay, didn't matter. I'm like, this is even bigger now. I'm like, whoever wants to share, please share, because someone out there needs to listen and understand they are not alone. That there are resources out there and there are people going through the exact same thing that they're going through and they've made it to the other end through All of the resiliency and they're doing amazing things in life. So that's how that all just spun and came to fruition for me. And in the idea of just, let's just sit down. And have an authentic conversation, share what you want to share, so someone else out there can hear your story. Yesterday, you actually said thank you for being an ambassador of the Out As The New In family. I wore the t shirt, but I'm going to tell you something. Thank you. I wore it proudly. By the way, the quality of that shirt is stunning. I love that shirt. I will wear it proudly a lot. Got a lot of compliments. A lot of people asked what it is, and of course sent them to your website, which we will also do here on the podcast. We'll put a link into the website. But I think what's interesting in, When I listened to you talk, especially on this podcast is that you are that gesture. You ambassador, right? You are out doing you're out doing Johnny and you have had a really interesting route to get there. That's been a very interesting journey And what I really respect and really respond to is you've said several times that you've just been open and open to the new opportunity open to the new possibility. The next door opens, the next door opens. And I'm taking a little bit of that for myself right now. I'm in a big transition at 58, but I'm really excited to see where you go next, because if the previous. X number of years. I won't date you has been any indication. I think just so you know, we're the same age. I know I never asked. I've learned early on never to ask, but I think what's really great is that there, there are going to be opportunities for you to take this. And I said the same thing the other day too. Another guest, I said, you have no idea where this is going to go, but when it goes, it's going to go. And what I am again, super respectful of is that openness. You have to be open to what's next and you have to be open to whatever it is that brings you into this journey. I'm curious. I'm going to. Kind of wrap this around. I hope you'll come back and have another conversation with me at some point. I think we could really delve into You know some great topics and talk about mental health. It's something that I think is super important especially as we move through the next couple of months couple of years There's going to be a lot of opportunity for people to need connection but I Say two things. This is becoming my mantra to all of my guests is, and I firmly believe this, that the world is a much better place with you in it. And I'm super grateful as I'm sure as all the people that have connected with you, I do ask my guests as we wrap the conversation to go back in their minds to their childhood, to their young Johnny, when you might have been in school, right? When you may have been, say elementary school. And what would you tell Johnny about his life today? What would his life be like? What advice would you give him? What would you say to him? Honestly man, I, like I said, I grew up in a really small rural little area. I was tiny, I was so skinny. I was bullied a lot because of that. My grandfather actually nicknamed me bones yeah. And my cousins actually call me that to this day when we do see each other or in our talk on the phone which now it's I'm totally good with but I think the biggest thing is just know that, people do things. And say things and within words. Because it's not about you, where they're sending that negative energy on, it's about them. 100%. In my opinion. I truly believe that there's so much going on with them that they have to do certain things to other people to make themselves feel better. And knowing that it has nothing, really it doesn't have anything to do with you. You're the outlet. And just try to understand that and understand that as hard as you can, let it roll because, the biggest thing that I've really taught myself mentally is that I know who I am. I know what I bring to the table. I know what I can accomplish. And You can like me, you don't have to like me, it doesn't matter to me because I don't care because I know who I am as a human being. I said it better myself, my friend, I said it better myself. And I know for a fact just because I feel it and I sense it, I see it. Chase is super proud of you as probably as proud of you or as you are of him. And I hope someday to get a chance to meet him and I look forward to having you back on the podcast. I'm grateful to you for what you're doing out in the world and you're out changing lives. Thank you. You're welcome. Yeah they say we all come together at some point in our paths cross, right when we are out to be change makers. And I. appreciate podcasters and the people that I listened to, because I waited to do this for years. I didn't think this was going to be a reality. And my coach and my mentor, who happens to be a fellow podcaster as well, said to me one day, when are you just going to do the first podcast? Just get it out. Just do you just do it. And I really hesitated. And I have to say, I didn't anticipate. What it was gonna do for me personally in my life as the podcast host and listening to all these stories and Then knowing that we were putting those stories out to the world and the difference in the and the conversations that we were gonna shift But it takes that first step. So I think you and I are both a testament to that message of Just be open Let it come to you, but here's the thing, when it comes to you, you got to take action on it. Cause if you don't take action on it, it's not going to happen. So true. I will think of that every time I drink out of my bright yellow Tumblr and wear my t shirt and think of the people that are coming to you and all of your hard work. Thanks for being here. We will definitely, have you back again. And again, I just appreciate your time today. Oh, Eric, thank you so much for the invite. This has been absolutely amazing. Alright, everyone, thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends and if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just Do you pod as you go out into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.