PRIDE REPLAY - S1E38 with Sara Cunningham - The Hug That Started A Movement

🌈 PRIDE Month REPLAY 🌈

In celebration of PRIDE, we're revisiting one of our most powerful and heart-warming episodes — my unforgettable conversation with Sara Cunningham, founder of FREE MOM HUGS, based in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma.

Last year, I attended the local Oceanside Pride festival where I stumbled upon a group of incredible women wearing shirts that read FREE MOM HUGS. Not only did I receive one of the most affirming hugs of my life, I also knew instantly that I had to learn more about this beautiful movement — and the woman who started it.

In this special replay, Sara shares her deeply personal journey of faith, family, and transformation. After initially rejecting her son Parker’s sexuality due to her conservative Christian upbringing, Sara found herself in spiritual turmoil. But instead of turning away, she turned inward — and then outward — exhaustively searching her faith for answers. What she discovered led her from the church pews to the Pride Parade… without losing her faith.

Her first act of visible allyship came on June 20, 2015, when she attended Oklahoma City's Pride festival wearing a homemade FREE MOM HUGS button. The first hug she gave was to a young woman who tearfully confessed, “It’s been four years since I got a hug from my mom because I’m a lesbian.” That hug — and the hundreds that followed — sparked a nationwide movement of love, visibility, and radical acceptance for the LGBTQIA+ community.

Sara's story is one of unconditional love, healing, and the brave power of showing up. She's a mom, a trailblazer, and truly, a gift to us all.

❤️ Don't miss this beautiful conversation. And if you’ve heard it before, it’s well worth another listen — especially during Pride.

🔗 Learn more about FREE MOM HUGS: https://freemomhugs.org/
🎥 Watch the Mama Bears documentary: https://kinema.com/films/mama-bears-wskofa

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Just To You Podcast. My name is Eric Nicole, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation and if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. I. The Just Do You Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire us, to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the Just do you space of being. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly gonna laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we are gonna know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. All right, everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I have been wanting to have this guest on for months now, and today seems like an incredibly appropriate day to have this conversation and we'll get into that a little bit, but I'd like to introduce everyone to Sarah Cunningham. Hi, Sarah. Hello. Or I should say howdy. Howdy. So perfect. For our listeners, Sarah lives in Oklahoma and Sarah is also the founder of an organization that I have wanted to learn more about. It's called Free Mom Hugs, and we're going to get into that in a second. But Sarah, welcome to the Just You Podcast. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. I love sharing stories. I know that they just matter and I know before we pushed record you shared a little bit of yours and I'm just fascinated with everything that you've accomplished and how you're using your platform to share stories and what I would have done to, I have heard someone maybe like myself when I was trying to figure things out. So thank you. Thank you. You're so welcome. You're so welcome. I'm going to read a little something so our listeners get a essence of you and your organization that I'm going to share my story of how I came into contact with free mama hugs, and then we're going to get right into it. But I think this is important. So as we mentioned, Sarah's from Oklahoma and Sarah had spent many years rejecting her son Parker's sexuality after he came out. And very conflicted by her love for her son and her spirituality, Sarah exhaustively searched her faith and sexuality to find answers. And what Sarah learned through the process would transform her journey from church to the Pride Parade. I loved that comment, because it encompasses just quite a lot. All of our lives, right? We all can relate to that. And it goes on to say, that as you became involved in the LGBTQIA plus community, the hurt, shame, and injustice they frequently experienced was painfully clear. Remembering that she too once was in the crowd that rejected this loving, vibrant community, Sarah took action. On Saturday, June 20th of 2015, Sarah wore a homemade button with the words, free mom hugs to the Oklahoma city pride festival. but you offered hugs to anyone who made eye contact. The first hug Sarah gave was to a beautiful girl who whispered, it's been four years since I got a hug from my mom because I'm a lesbian. Sarah embraced her and hundreds more that day. And many shared similar stories with every embrace that day. Free mom hugs, a nationwide movement of love, visibility, and acceptance for the LGBTQIA community was born. Yes. So welcome, Sarah, and I want to start off by saying thank you for coming on today. As I said earlier, I think today more than ever, we could all use a hug. We've just been through a very difficult week and are facing a potentially difficult time in our lives where everybody could use a hug. And I don't say that flippantly. I mean that from the bottom of my heart. So my exposure to Free Mom Hugs, as I shared with you before we jumped on I was at the North County San Diego Pride, which is called Pride by the Beach. It is a very grassroots, loving, caring community that has a very intimate pride festival. And I was there to experience and to support my friends that actually work for the organization, North County Center that puts it on. And I remember walking through the festival, listening to the music and looking at the different booths. And as we walked down the street towards the main stage, I noticed this group of women that were all wearing the same t shirt that said, free mom hugs. And I will never forget this woman walked right up to me after making eye contact and gave me the greatest hug that I had in a long time. And I remember feeling this emotion of first, who are these women? What are they doing? And I want more. And I remember talking to a few of the moms that were there and they shared why they were there. And the stories were so beautiful. And I remember saying to one of them, who founded this organization? I've got to get around my podcast. And here we are all those months later. So I'd love it. Sarah, if you would share a little bit about how this all came about, I'd love to hear a little bit more about you and your journey to being a mom and then how this all started. I'd love you to just take the floor and share a little bit about that with our listeners. Thank you for sharing how you found Free Mom Hugs. Please tell me that they asked for consent before bombarding you with it. A hundred percent. She said, can I Oh, a hundred percent. She's can I hug you? And I'm like, can you hug me? Yes, you can hug me. Yeah. So yes, they did follow your rules Good because we do the first thing is to make eye contact. Yeah. And then offer would you like a hug or a high five? And,'cause not everybody is a hugger. Not everybody wants to be touched. So you, and if they say no, rarely, very rarely do we have the occasion, but we certainly honor and respect that. But you say, okay then let's look at each other for just a minute. And I want to say that I, we love you. We're celebrating you. This is your day. Have fun. And I'm glad we're here together. And that's it. And they go and they have fun and they're celebrated and acknowledged and affirmed. So I'm glad you had a good experience there. I've been refused hugs This started in 2000 and well 15 in 2015 I wore the homemade button that said free mom hugs and I went to my local pride festival, and I've been refused hugs, maybe three times in this past year. That span. But how it started the simple, short synopsis is this, that when I have two children, my youngest son, Parker, is gay, and he's the reason why we're here, and when he came out of his closet, I had to go into mine. And when he turned 21, he met someone. And he said, Mom, I need you to be okay about it. And I wasn't, I behaved badly. I said some things and acted in ways that I regret even today. And so I had to re examine everything that I believed. And I needed to hear from someone who shared my faith, that it's okay to search the matter out because When I did, when we do, we get educated on things like the history of human sexuality and science and evidence, things that changed my heart and my mind and my understanding. What it means to have a gay son and the gift that the gay community brings to this world. And I believe the LGBTQ plus community is a gift from God to be celebrated. But I wasn't, it was a journey, like you said, from the church to the pride parade without losing my faith, without losing my child. And but I didn't know any other moms. who had gay kids at that time. I thought it was the only mom in the world concerned about. And trigger warning here, but I'm a woman of faith and I had to reexamine what I believed and the theology that I have absorbed, the bad theology that I had absorbed my entire life that thinking that homosexuality was wrong, that maybe something bad had to happen to my son to make him gay, or I failed as a woman of faith or maybe as a mother. So it took some time. But I was at that moment. I was frozen in my fear of my son's salvation. If I accepted him, my own salvation, I worried about crimes like if you're familiar with the Matthew Shepard story. I was frozen in that fear and I was clinging to my faith and it was my faith that was killing me. And so it was a journey. It didn't happen overnight. And I don't want to get ahead of your questions, but that's. The moment that started the journey and how old was Parker, when he came out to you? He tried it through his adolescence many conversations at the kitchen sink or after dinner. But ultimately it was when he turned 21, he met someone. And that was the day that I faced reality that I have a gay son. I can't pray that gay away anymore. I can't burn the sage or fast and pray any, I have a gay son. And what does that mean? Yeah. I have a very similar story to, to, to Parker's. I came out at 24. So I was very late. I just turned 58, like I mentioned. So I was 24 when I came out and, we didn't come from a a religious family. We had faith, but we will admit we called ourselves the social church goers. So our holiday church goers, we went, Christmas and Easter and all of those Thanksgiving and all those wonderful holidays, but had a very strong bond within our family and a very strong bond of faith. It just was different than most. And I panicked. My mother was a teacher. in the school district in which I went and I was terrified about being found out. And I've known since I was very young. So from the time that I was in elementary school and I was attracted to a friend or to in high school to a friend's parent my girlfriend in high school, thankfully she's forgiven me, but I was completely in love with her dad and I didn't understand why. And so there was a lot of that shame that you talked about that, a lot of that fear and that shame. And it took me till I was 24, and I had to go through a personal development course for three days in order to understand that the conversation that I was telling myself was not reality. I wasn't going to be, and I could have been, I could have been disowned by my family, or I could have been judged, but, my freedom in coming out and being my true self was going to be the freedom that I needed. So we all go through whatever that, that journey is. And my mom too struggled. I give her tremendous credit. Being an educator and being a teacher, she's a mom first at that moment when I came out and her fear of what I might be up against or what I might have to face the face. Even back then in the eighties, we were dealing with the HIV and AIDS crisis. We were with some scary times then as well. But I remember the moment that I realized that my mom was the safe space. It took a year, it took about a year. I told her first and then I came out to everyone a year later. So I remember that. So I'm I have really loved and cherished hearing the stories of the people that I've had conversation with, not only the individuals themselves who have come out, but also the parents. And to realize Sarah, that. Everybody there, without exception, the people that have come out have lived decades, if not years before, and still continue to live with that shame and that fear and that judgment. And in those moments of you going through your own journey and finding that space for you and then having that clearing with your son are the moments that I'm just going to say it. Save. Our kids, it saves us because we finally feel protected and we finally feel at home. And I think that's so beautiful. The story, I do have a question. So you grew up in Oklahoma yourself. Is that correct? Are you from born and raised there as well? And did you, as you were growing up and going through school, did you know any LGBT students, did you, were there kids in your school or in the community that may have been, now that you look back, that may have been struggling with that? Yes. In fact my now husband, I say now, like he's always been my husband but his brother, Robert is gay, but he's passed on since then. And then but he was so flamboyant, but I didn't even make the connection. I just thought he was, awkward scrawny kid. He got bullied relentlessly. But now I understand because he was so flamboyant, very extravagant. Fabulous now. What I would have loved, but later when I. I became an adult, a young adult and started having children. I said, I thought that was the picture of someone who was gay. Like they were just seen from the chandeliers, and he had a very difficult life and died young, but that's all the only, no one was out as being a young adult, raising children in the church, didn't have same sex marriages. There were no people out, out in our congregation. I'm sure they were there. Obviously Parker was there, but No, I didn't know any or they weren't out. And I think that's the thing that I want people to wrap their head around is that we've been here. The community has been here forever. And yet many decades, we lived in fear and in silence, but we were here. This isn't a new phenomenon of LGBTQIA. Even the trans community is not new. but we lived in the shadows and we lived in the closet. There's a reason why we say that. And I think I look back at my school and I grew up in California, very liberal California. I grew up in a very affluent, cis gendered white community. We didn't have diversity for the most part. My mother as an educator and as a teacher and my grandparents had to take me to, Introduce me to, the other racial components of our beautiful world. I had to be I had to be taught that But I remember growing up in school, even through high school, knowing that there were other students in my class. That felt the same way that I did, but we never talked about it. Obviously, I think a lot of students were afraid to talk to me because they knew my mom was an administrator. They knew that maybe if I told her that Billy or Susie were gay, that they would be outed. But I, looking back now, as we all went off to college, and it became more and more acceptable to know the number of students that were in that school, the number of teachers that were in that school, that also later in life came out. The parents that later in life, came out as a result of the freedom to be able to be themselves. Throughout the nineties and the two thousands. I recently had a conversation with somebody who grew up in Mississippi and a very similar conversation, terrified still to this day to be able to live, to be themselves. And that's one of the reasons why I did this podcast, because there are still, I take for granted how easy it was for me. And I say the word easy. It wasn't easy. Coming out, I was terrified I was going to get kicked to the curb. I just did. And yet, my family embraced me, I was very fortunate and very lucky, only my dad seemingly with a PhD in psychology had a problem in understanding made it about him, not about me. My mom embraced me, my aunts and uncles, and even though they didn't necessarily understand it, took the time to, to learn about me. But I remember the students in my school very similar to. Your brother in law, very flamboyant, very different, and watching the treatment that they received. There was a teacher even at our school, I'll never forget him, would run around our pep rallies in a tutu and being very flamboyant and very funny. And yet, we were very respectful of him. There was still that backtalk, which I would hear and then make me feel fearful in coming out. And even more so now as an adult, and looking back over those years, there are parents of friends of mine from school who to this day will not admit their children were LGBTQ. One of whom is no longer with us, unfortunately. He passed very early on and remember experiencing that grief process. So it's been obviously interesting having a new opportunity to see the young people today coming out is a very different story, right? I'm sure Parker's now mid to late twenties, I'm assuming this has been a while. Very different as we're looking at this freedom, what's interesting now and why I think it's so wonderful to have your organization, this free mom hugs is what's now I think, and you can share a little bit about this in your experience. And what you are doing with this national organization with chapters across the country and educating these moms and educating parents and educating kids is, I thought about this, especially over this last week with the election, that it is probably more difficult now to come out, although the process is easier because the. Lack of understanding of gender and of different types of gender identity and our pronouns is 10 times more complicated than it was when I came out. When I came out, you were gay or lesbian. Period. There was no bisexual. There was. We didn't have it in our acronym, right? We were gay or lesbian and there was no bisexuality, transgenderism, I's and A's and allies and all that. There just wasn't that there. And now. We've had to now educate ourselves even further, right? And I'm sure you have found that as you've gone out into the country and training and educating these moms on the types of conversations that they may have to have or the support that they need to give, I'm sure has been challenging. Yes. Yes. And it's ongoing. And Eric, I love that you brought up the acronym because truth be told, I pray someday that we won't even need it. A hundred percent. people for who we are. But I understand the value of it. As we consider the, like a dial, like a sundial, almost the L G B T Q I A two spirit plus and beyond. And it is ongoing, but I love it because now I can see and understand the value of having that acronym with words Associated and descriptions and identities were an individual as they are on their journey of self discovery. They can look at those letters and what they mean and say, that's me. And it may change over time through whether you're seven or 77, we're on a journey of self discovery. So I appreciate the acronym. I was late in life before I understood the significance of the acronym and even a little gay bar in New York City called the Stonewall Inn. I just didn't, wasn't aware. I grew up in an age where you didn't question authority. You didn't talk about sex and you certainly didn't talk about money. And that left me with no or little opinions on anything and very weak minded. I love the acronym. I love learning about gender identity, sexual orientation. It's a whole new world of diversity and humanity that has just been dumbed down by bad theology and fear and ignorance. And To combat that I've also learned that it's going to take love and education. That's the only answer to come combating or counteracting what's happening. You just said a couple of things that I think are worth delving into a little bit. I do want to say one thing though, when you said weak minded, I don't believe it's weak. I'm going to, I'm not correcting you. I'm just giving you my opinion. No, I'd love to hear that. I don't think it's weak minded. I have. I've had conversations with many people on this podcast that we've talked about, parents are not given the tools necessary to be equipped to have conversations about the LGBTQ community, let alone a myriad of other conversations that deal with issues that parents, especially young parents may not be equipped or educated to deal with. And it's not to say they're weak. It's not to say they're uneducated. It's to say that they've not been given the tools. Their toolbox barely includes the tools necessary to know how to feed and take care of and protect this baby, this newborn, this child, then as that child develops, we send them off to school, hoping that they learn and have the space to learn and to develop. Are we educating parents, teachers, administrators, how to care for children? Because children don't come in this. This A or B format. It's a myriad of ways to deal with their mental health and they're dealing with their differences. But so I, I hearken that back to, do we need to better equipped parents and teachers and counselors and people on how to know how to navigate this thing called raising children and being there for their kids. So I don't ever want it to be a sign of weakness. I want it to be a sign of. And I don't even want to use the word uneducated, but it's unequipped with the right tools to raise these kids. I agree and I do use the term fear and ignorance is just what we've been exposed to. If you go to a school in a rural area and no one is out there or there's no representation in the school and you're right, you're absolutely right. When it comes with equipping parents with. The vocabulary and the space to have those conversations, but how do we do that if they're raised in such a bubble, like I was where everyone looked like me and thought like me and spoke like me see. And I do believe it is. education that is key and and knowledge. And when I say weak minded, it's just mean what they've been exposed to. There's no critical thinking. And, but a lot of times it's teachers and those in the health field that are more accepting because they've seen and experienced so much more, if that makes sense. It does. I'm curious, Sarah if you don't mind sharing this, cause I think this will help out a lot of people, both children, and parents as well. When Parker came to you and came out, obviously he was, 21. So it's a little bit older, a little bit more wiser. Can you talk for just a little bit about, you've mentioned a few of the ways that left you feeling and how it questioned your faith and all that. Can you talk a little bit about what were you thinking in those moments when he came out to you? And what that journey was like for you as a parent. I'm just curious. I think that's because it's different for everyone, but I think that says a lot about why you're doing now what you're doing with Free Mom Hugs. Yeah. I remember the very first. Parker tried to have conversations with me throughout his entire adolescence, but I didn't allow the space or the vocabulary. I manipulated every conversation. And like I said, I thought I was okay with people being gay until it was my son. Okay. But I remember very vividly Parker was about maybe 15 or 17 years old. And I remember we were the only ones awake. I have another child and my husband, we all lived in the same house at that time. And I remember where he was sitting and he said, mom, I'm gay. And at that time, I was just taken back. I said everyone at your school thinks they're gay because at that time I thought it was just a phase. And I just, I wouldn't allow the conversation. And I have a book that I wrote a mother's memoir titled how we sleep at night. And it's based on that night, that conversation, because I thought, I don't know how he got to sleep that night. Cause I certainly didn't. I just wrestled with these thoughts that I have a gay son. So when he was 21. I did, I behaved badly. I was not happy about it. I just went into my room. I laid in my bed and just was despondent. And it was a really hard time in our household until there were a couple of pivotal moments. One being when Parker came to my bedside and said, Mom, are you going to be okay? And I said, yeah, I just got to figure this out. And he said, I understand mom, but you need to understand. I have been your son for 21 years. I need you to suck it up now and be my mom. And that put me in check. He said it very lovingly and then seeing him happy and healthy. And meeting his friends and hearing their stories, and then hearing about laws that affect him and families like ours made me accountable, I became accountable to what I was learning, hearing and observing within the community so it was a process but it was pivotal. Moments like that standing at the Oklahoma City Pride Festival, I was still on the fence. Did I understand pride the history of a little gay bar in New York City called the Stonewall Inn? No, I did not. Could I have Googled it? Yes. Did I? No, because at that time, I just wanted to see God's favor there. I was still in this looking for God. the Lord's favor. And so I went to the Pride Festival with a secret prayer of mine and There was a pivotal moment where I'm looking at the sea of people and there's a rainbow flags and braids and diversity and community in a way that I had never experienced before. And at that moment, I looked to the heavens and I said, God, thank you that I am the one changed because the audacity of all my prayers and fasting that I wouldn't have a gay son. The audacity of all of that. At that moment, almost took me to my knees and ever since then, I have seen this beautiful community as a gift from God to this world to be celebrated. So the mission of Free Mom Hugs, Eric, is that we can pour into the community and their families. Because at one time I thought we would build that bridge between bad theology, the non affirming church, and the gay community. And I thought Free Mom Hugs would be that bridge. But I couldn't get anyone from the other side to cross the bridge to meet this beautiful community. So once we started pouring into the community and their families, we begin to see fruit, real, lasting, empowering, life giving fruit. And that has been the success of Free Mom Hugs. Then a small little chapter in Oklahoma City to a national movement. Of Americans who are dedicated and good and beautiful people who want to protect and support and empower families with transgender children looking for a safe place to live, safe housing. medical care. It just, the list goes on and on. But when you're accountable to something, it's your duty to act upon it and do something. So if I can ask the question through my tears, because I told you I was going to cry. Talk for a sec. No, don't. Oh, please do not apologize. I've been consumed with all of this. I know all of it. I know and that's why today is such a perfect time for this conversation. And I'm grateful for the tears because it's been a rough week. But can you please talk about, because you've said it now twice. And I think what's An interesting word that you use is this accountability word. So take a minute or two and talk about what that accountability means to you. What does that mean to you? I want our listeners to hear from a mom, a parent, and I want our listeners who are young people to understand what that word means as a parent. What does that accountability mean to you? Yes. To me, accountability is. Learning for example, when I first came on the scene, I use that in quotation, when I first intentionally interact, it's a scene, trust me. Yeah, it's a scene, right? It's a scene. Those pride parade festivals can be a scene for sure. Yes. Yes. When I first entered this arena. I had no idea that my son, that you, Eric, could be denied housing, healthcare, even thrown out of a public space because of how you identify. That was 29 states in 2015 16. Today it's 30. In Oklahoma, we had more anti LGBTQ plus bills than anywhere else in the country. This year. And so it's Knowing that my, I have two sons, a straight son and a gay son. My straight son has more rights than my gay son. That's accountability. When we have mothers with transgender children making a list of where it's safe to raise their children, that's accountability. Sorry. I know. And unless you're aware of these things, and that's why. That's why it's so important to have conversations like these because a lot of people say you've got the Marriage Equality Act. What more? They have no idea of the Equality Act that needs to be passed. And now with this political climate that we're in, it hurts my head. It hurts my heart. I think, yes. And I'm standing in a conversation today. Yesterday was a different story. Today's conversation that I'm standing in and having this conversation with you gives me the hope and the clarity and the clearing that we have come so far as a community of LGBTQIA with our parents and our champions and our families and our friends that It gives me a space of hope that we will move past this. We will move forward because the accountability is there and it with that accountability coupled with, I'm just going to say it, our anger and our frustration and our fortitude of where we are today and where we see ourselves in the next year, two, three and four is going to what's going to is what's going to push us through because I've always said this. There's a couple groups. You don't piss off. You don't. You don't piss moms off. You don't piss the gays off. And so I'm hoping that in this current conversation, the accountability that we all have will rise up. I love what you said, Sarah, because the accountability can be can be defined in so many ways. And it's not only the accountability that One group has it's the accountability that all of us have it's not just those of us that are in marginalized communities that are the victims. Let's say we have an accountability as well and I find it fascinating and a lot of the conversations that I've had to even within the members of our own community that there is a. Conversation about the trans community within the LGBTQIA community. There is a conversation that surprises me within our own community. Within a multitude of communities that doesn't have accountability and yet. We can't then stand in resentment or anger or frustration because we don't have the rights that we want. And you said this very succinctly, and I will go back and listen to this conversation many times over the next couple of weeks, is I remember a conversation about gay marriage and equality. And I got married two weeks before federal recognition of marriage equality came to be. So we got married in Boston because California wasn't legal yet. And we got married in Boston for a myriad of other reasons but two weeks later, marriage equality happens and it became legal. And I remember having a conversation with a very well known organization, That fights for our civil rights and the head of a company that had questions. And I loved this conversation because the head of this very successful multi billion dollar company didn't understand because of his religion and the teachings of that religion, why we had to call it marriage. Because in his world, marriage was between a man and a woman. in his religion, it was very clear and didn't understand why we needed to call it that. Couldn't we call it something else? Couldn't we call it domestic partnership? Couldn't we call it this? And I understood his question. And so I facilitated a conversation, much to the chagrin of this other organization that was out raising our, or fighting for our civil rights, to have a conversation with this person to educate. them on why it was important. What were those thousand plus federal rights that we were not. having access to because we didn't have marriage equality, why that was important. And to this day, Sarah, I'm having conversations with people in my life, why we're so fearful of what's at risk for us losing those federal rights today. And yes, California is fighting to keep those rights. But once I set foot out of California, it don't matter. I think that accountability is something that we can all take from this space that we're in, this place that we're in right now, in this given week, and say, what is our personal accountability to our community? What can we do to get out and educate and to take a stand and to be in difficult conversations that will allow other people across the country to understand why it's so important? So I thank you for taking the time to talk about that a little bit, because I don't think I should say, don't think. We don't have the conversations because of a myriad of reasons. We're overwhelmed. We're overstimulated. We're over conversed. We're over talked at. There's a lot of reasons why, but we have to have those conversations because if we don't, we're just going to get more of the same. Do you agree? Yes. Although if you think about this very day, a lot of people, the conversation aspect of a relationship between the two political parties have completely just. Yeah. You have families who are being, completely blown apart. And I, I think we've accomplished so much in a short amount of time. We just didn't have enough time, but I we can't lose that momentum. And so I shared with our volunteers recently that, what? Let's just get through today and we'll figure tomorrow out tomorrow because we're today. We're standing upright where we were catching our breath and we're focused with the task at hand. And that is to keep doing something that is working towards protecting, supporting, and Celebrating because when I saw other people celebrating my son, it put me in and so conversations may not be available. They may be completely broken down, but we can be visible. We can educate even if it's for ourselves and you can have conversations and that's whether it's strengthening each other. So I'm curious. That's very true. Very powerful. And that's a space we need to stand in. I'm That's all we got. What we got right now. So if you don't mind share for just a couple minutes I, as I was walking away from the booth and that beautiful hug that I got I think her name was Susan. I think I was so taken back by it. I. Probably have forgotten her name and the smiles and the cheering. What are the responses from some of the moms that are out there giving hugs to these total strangers? Do they share with you often? What that feels like for them? What does that feel like for them? Yeah, we have a word for that. Eric, the very first hug is the spark. It's the spark, and it ignites something within you and the recipient that, again, is long lasting, it's empowering, it gives life, and it's powerful, it's profound, it's practical In 2016, after the, that election I was just hearing great fear and anxiety from the community and I have a free mom hugs banner. It's in my car now. But the only thing I could think of is Lord, what can I do? And I, I thought I got that banner. So I went down to our gay district on 39th street and I made a social media post. I said, look, we're going to be here from four to seven through the weekend. It was after, 2016. We had people coming outta the venues. We had cars lined up, people just wanting reassurance and those hugs and the affirmations. And so Tuesday night when I got up to the news, Wednesday I made a social media post and we're doing, we're back where we were. And we're down on the corner of Northwest 39th and Penn. We've got a few. moms together and we hold that banner up and we have people pulling over, getting out of their cars to get hugs. And it's just about those safe spaces that we're creating and have been creating and will continue to create. They're not going anywhere. They're not, they're still here. And so we just need to hold on to each other. And I don't know what the answer is, three, six, a year from now, a month from now, but we're gonna, we're ready we're, we stand at the ready. And I will say this because I believe it in my heart and in my, in every essence of my soul and being is that, The one thing that I think is interesting is you probably will never know how that hug rippled out into the world and made the change with not just one, but probably dozens, if not hundreds of people, because in that moment, I've said this quite often in this podcast is that all we want is to be seen. And heard and celebrated and I posted this week on my social media I was supported by Arto and I was at a drag show of a drag queen there. Her name is mama tits and she's hilarious and brash and she's also been a guest on my podcast. And. Yeah. She's a hoot and a half and very vocal, but she made a comment. I was sitting in the cabaret and I was in Puerto Vallarta for the first time in my late fifties, taking all of that in after a very difficult couple of years of, feeling very down about myself and making myself wrong for my divorce and all of that. And we're sitting in this audience and had just laughed through an hour and 15 minute show of her schtick. And she's, I'm gonna leave you with this as we get ready to say goodbye. And that is promise me that you will surround yourself with people who celebrate you. And in that moment, I literally cried. could not catch my breath. I it took every ounce of air out of my lungs, and I realized that where I had been living, the conversation that I had been living in, is not in celebration. That sounded very conceded to me, very self centered, that I would only surround myself with people who celebrated me. And I realized in that moment that she said that was, it's not about celebrating me. It's stand in the space of people who celebrate each other. And I took that with me as I've left. And I, that's why I called her and said, I need you to be on my podcast. Don't swear like a potty mouth. Like you did in the show. Cause my mom's listening, but you can just be yourself. When I sit and I think about what you're talking about with the moms and going down on Wednesday and standing there, we just want to be acknowledged and celebrated for being who we are. And the fact that you I have this national movement of women who are out just letting people know that they're seen and they're heard and they're celebrated, they're acknowledged is what's going to change this whole, sorry, I knew this was going to get me, it's going to change this whole thing. It's going to change this whole thing. And we're not necessarily there right this second. We're going to get there. We'll get there. We will. This has been a tough week. Boo. Knowing that we don't have to hide and that there are safe places for us to go, and that there are safe people to give us that hug is what gives me hope. It's what gives me hope. And I'm just so moved by you guys. It just makes me want to bawl my eyes out like a two year old, but thank you. And. We also, we like to think of mom as an action word we dads when you get a mom hug, that's pretty special. When you had a dad in the equation or grandma, grandpa, it takes it to a whole new level. And I think the key is to our success is that there are good people who want to do something. And Free Mom Hugs offers that platform. And yeah, we show up at Pride, but we also help with clothing closets, food drives, whatever it is that will be that loving presence in the lives of those who need it the most. And, I'm not the first mom to offer hugs at a Pride festival. I know that. But from that experience that I had, we started the nonprofit. And but I do want to encourage your listeners. If you are a parent hearing the words, Mom, I'm gay, or I'm bi, or I'm on that journey of self discovery, that there are so many resources out there now to not have a better understanding on what it means to have this beautiful dynamic of diversity and humanity in your home. To celebrate that, make a safe space and you have a right to know, what policies are in place at your school, where your child attends consider your place of worship. Is it a safe space? You I have a friend and she says, as the home goes, so does the world. And I believe that. And lastly, if you need resources, if you need support, if you're looking for a free mom hugs shirt that you can wear publicly when you can't use your words, it sends a message that you're a strong and faithful ally, and it supports the mission, but go to freemomhugs. org. You can find your state chapter, you get plugged in and since the election, we've had an uptick of registrations that don't show any signs of slowing, and that gives me great hope. So I know we're doing something right within the movement, and I'm just glad to be on this side of history. We are so blessed to have you on the side of history. I'm going to make sure we put the link to free among hugs in our social media and on our platform. I have two final questions. One I'm very curious about, cause I think I know the answer. Second one, I have no idea. First one is when you sit back, Sarah, and you look at this movement that you've created. Admittedly, not the first mom that's given a hug, but this free mom hug movement that you've created. And you sit back and you look at the vastness of this. joyous moment of that hug with all these moms. What goes through your head? I think I think it's a wonderful legacy to have and the hope that it's brought me. And I know that it brings to other people. Yeah. And I'm going to say this because I believe it again in my soul that You and the other organizations that are out there, because there are many wonderful organizations that are out. I shared one with you before we started recording and he had somebody who shared with him at the next year's pride in his hometown. They came up and said, the fact that you acknowledged me at the pride festival last year and you said what you said, had me not take my own life. And I want you to know that it's because of you. And that these free mom hugs are saving lives. And that to me is the greatest gift. The hug is wonderful and lovely and it feels great. But to know that there's somebody out there that may have received a hug of yours that changed their mind to realize that who they are as a gift to this world is what gives me. So much gratitude and thanks. Craziness. Thank you for that. So thank you in all seriousness without making light of it. Thank you for who you are, not only for the world, but for the countless people who encounter your moms and your hugs. I'm not a mom, but I want to wear the t shirt to the gym every morning. Cause there's some moms there that I think, I would catch on to that, but I like to ask my guests as we wrap up the conversation, I could sit and talk to you for days. I just adore your energy is just palpable and we're quite far distance, but I adore you and feel like I have a new friend. But I always like to ask my guests, if you could go back to the young Sarah growing up in, Oklahoma. what would you say to her about her life now? I would say to that Sarah, then gosh, Eric wasn't ready for that. Sorry. I think part of me wants to say what a mom would say, like finish school. I just made it through the 10th grade. I wish I, I think I could have done a lot more if I had finished school and got really educated on things, And then maybe the softer side would say it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. I will say this. This has become my closing statement to my guests. And I believe it, but the world is a better place with you in it, Sarah. And thank you for again, everything that you have done and who you are as a mom to this beautiful Parker. And to all of the moms out in the free mom hug movement, I say thank you to them as well. I cannot wait to see them at the next Pride event and I will definitely run up and give them hugs before they give me mine to say thank you for everything that you do. I will. I will. And I look forward to also watching Free Mom Hugs grow and expand and be present for the movement and for the work that we have ahead of us. And it's knowing that you all are out there is what makes this possible. So thank you for being here today. Likewise. Hey, can I mention one last thing? And of course, I forget to do this, but there is a documentary out and it's called the mama bear doc, the director Darisha Kai. She found, she follows three families African American lesbian woman and her mother and a mother of a transgender daughter and me and my son. And so it's available to rent for 5. I can send you the link or you just Google mama bear doc. And, I just encourage you to, if you can, and you want to watch the movie, invite some friends over it's wonderful stories. And I just, I think it's a, an important film to see. And that's my shameless bug. It's not shameless at all. In fact, I'm going to, you send me the link and I'll put it in our social media as well. I encourage everyone to watch it. I also encourage everyone to go check out the free mom hugs website. We'll put that link in as well. And as we say goodbye today, Sarah, thank you again. Thank you for your courage and for your honesty and for your transparency. And I'm just so grateful. And I hope you'll come back again, another time down the road. We can have another conversation. Let's do it. Let's check you in. Let's check in and Parker's always welcome as well. So thank you again. He's got a story to tell the doozy. We're here to help him share that if he ever feels inclined to do so for sure he has a safe space to be because we are that safe space for all of our community. So thank you again to our listeners. We'll talk to you next week. Thanks for being here and go out and give someone a hug today. It's going to make a difference in your world. I promise. Alright, everyone, thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends and if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just Do you pod as you go out into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.