S2E26 with Brandon Wolf - Turning Remembrance Into Action

At a time when the LGBTQ+ community is facing increasing attacks on our rights, our safety, and our very existence, my guest reminds us why visibility, courage, and compassion still matter.

Meet Brandon Wolf — National Press Secretary for the Human Rights Campaign, nationally recognized civil rights and gun safety advocate, bestselling author, and survivor of the Pulse Nightclub shooting in Orlando. For so many, Pulse was meant to be a sanctuary of joy, connection, and freedom. Instead, it became a stark reminder of what can happen when hate is allowed to take root. That night, Brandon survived, but he lost his best friends, Drew and Juan, along with 47 others — a loss that continues to shape his life, advocacy, and our collective responsibility to one another.

In the years since, Brandon has transformed unimaginable grief into purpose-driven action. Through his advocacy, storytelling, and leadership, he has become a fierce voice for love, safety, and justice — reminding us that honoring those we’ve lost means fighting for a future where everyone can live fully, safely, and unapologetically as who they are.

In this episode, we talk about grief, resilience, courage, and what it means to keep showing up — even when the cost has been profound and painful. We discuss why our stories matter, why community matters, and why living your truth boldly, loudly, and authentically is one of the most powerful acts of resistance there is.

This is a conversation about love.
About remembrance.
About the courage it takes to keep going.

Brandon has impacted my life is so many ways since our paths crossed and I am all the better for it.  I am proud to call him not only a friend, but a true change-maker in our world.  

Welcome to the conversation.  

To learn more about Brandon, his book, his advocacy and where to find him on social media, visit:  https://brandonwolf.us/

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Just Do You Podcast. My name is Eric Nicoll, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation and if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The Just Do You Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire us, to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the Just do you space of being. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly going to laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we are going to know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. All right everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I am going to just jump right in. Introduce my guest today. Amazing opportunity several months ago to sit in a room full of members of the L-G-B-T-Q community and our allies during an HRC gala dinner. And one of the speakers that I saw on the docket, I did not know, I really wasn't aware of him. He comes on stage, opens his mouth. Shifted an entire room's spirit and emotion, and brought many of us to tears with an incredible story about his journey to finding his true self and now being a crusader and an advocate for the LGBT community. Brandon Wolf is a nationally recognized civil rights and gun safety advocate. He's a bestselling author. I cannot wait to get this book and dive into it over the holidays. He is currently the National Press Secretary for the human rights campaign, and Brandon's life took a devastating and heartbreaking turn. When he survived the Pulse nightclub shooting he crouched in a bathroom while gunman took the lives of 47 people, including two of his closest friends. And instead of letting this tragedy define him, he actually transformed. What seems to be insurmountable grief into purpose. He moved on to co-found the Drew Project, which empowers L-G-B-T-Q Youth and has awarded hundreds of thousand dollars in college scholarships to our community. He's a powerful and sought after voice appearing on major channels and networks around the country, countless publications, and is known for expressing this personal story into a call for action. He's recognized as Huffington's Post 30 most sorry, 30 modern day L-G-B-T-Q pioneers and was featured in OUT magazines OUT 100 and continues to champion real change. I'd like to introduce everyone and welcome Brandon Wolf. Hi, Brandon. Hi. It's good to see you. Thank you. It's good to see you again. Like I said, I had the pleasure of meeting you several months ago at that HRC dinner, and again, the next morning, or the next afternoon, I should say, at the HRC Garden Party for Orange County. And both times when I heard you speak, I mentioned you before we hit record. I was really moved on a multitude of levels. You are truly a magnificent speaker, but your story really not only tugged at my heart and made me stop and think about not only our community, but what is happening currently in our world. And I knew at that moment that I had to get you onto the podcast. So I'm super grateful for you to be here today and for joining us and for sharing your story. I'm honored. Thank you for those kind words. I truly feel, and I know we're going to get into the story and the journey and we'll talk all about it, but I tell people every day that I feel so honored to be able to do this work and show up in this way every single day. We're blessed to have you, and I say this quite a bit to my guests, but the world is a better place with you in it, and I mean that from the bottom of my heart. So there was a quote in on your social media, I think it was on your website, that said, sharing our stories is the most powerful tool we have in the fight for a better future. Right now, being bold and out loud comes with risks, but I'd argue that sharing our stories is more important now than it's ever been. And if there isn't a better quote out there right now, I don't know what is right. We have to be out sharing our stories, and that's the purpose of this podcast. So we're going to jump right in. I want to take you back a little bit, yeah. To your childhood. I always like to do this because not only does it set the tone for the conversation, but what's fascinating, Brandon is. It typically gives us a glimmer into who our guests are currently today. Yeah. We're shaped by our environment. So give us a little bit of background. Tell us about the young Brandon. Where'd you grow up? Family life, brothers and sisters. What was young Brandon like? Yeah. I appreciate you saying that because I feel like, so often, especially for those of us whose stories have pieces that are very public, that people have experienced alongside us, we can get single storied or pigeonholed into one part of our lives. But, so often I've told people I am so much more than one day in June. I am a collection of experiences. And I am a reflection of the people around me the very strong and courageous people who dared to share their own stories. I grew up in a rural town outside of Portland, Oregon. And it, it's a beautiful community. I think it's a, it's like a lot of people's experiences as young people in this country. I didn't grow up with Uber Eats and, taking the metro to school, I grew up with like cows and horses and, bring your tractor to school day was maybe one of the most popular spirit days we had. And I think for a lot of people, a community like the one I grew up in feels like comfort. It feels like home. It feels very familiar. You have family friends who span generations. But as you might imagine, that town didn't really look a lot like me. It didn't really love a lot like me. And so I spent most of my childhood really wondering if there would be a place for me to be unapologetically myself in the world. I did all the things that people told me I was supposed to do. I overachieved all the time. I did every afterschool activity. I ran for student body office every year I was in school. I, did music and arts and sports and held down a part-time job. And I think so much of that, overachieving, that excellence journey for me was about proving to the people around me that I could belong in the spaces they occupied. It was building this resume in the hopes that when I was finally honest about who I was when I finally came out, they would forgive me for that because they would see me for my, my achievements, my resume. It's not quite that easy right. To be. Someone who's different, even if you're doing all the right things. And then, the other component of it is I lost my mom to cancer when I was going into the sixth grade. And so I really was struggling at home to find a place to belong where other kids might be bullied at school and then, had safety and belonging around the dinner table. I didn't really find it there either. And so I think in many ways on the outside it looked like I had everything going for me as a young person. And if you asked people I went to high school with, they probably would say they figured I had everything going for me, but underneath the surface, my legs were churning just desperately trying to find the place where I could belong in the world. Yeah, I don't think that's uncommon. I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. I can't imagine what that's at that age to lose someone like that and then to not have that safe space. Very grateful that I had that with my mom. My dad wasn't in the picture, but that was very important to me. Yet still, like you had those struggles in those early years. What's, what I think is so powerful about your story is there is a resilience in children, right? I think it's innately there, and I think many times when we're bullied in school or we are up against instrumental odds at that age, we tend to suppress that. But can you talk a little bit about that? Did you feel that sense of resilience and that sense of strength, or was it kind of survival mode for you in those moments growing up? It, it's an interesting question'cause I, I think now that I have had time to reflect on what childhood was like, I was experiencing resilience and resolve, I. Was taught from a very young age to be an independent person. My mom I say now was my first ally, even though I didn't have the language to describe who I was, she had the language to tell me that I was loved and accepted exactly as I am. And in many ways, I am a reflection of who she was. She was, to paint the picture, she's tall. She's five 11. She loved to wear really tall, high heeled, like knee length boots. She drove a 1966 red Mustang with red leather interior. Only, the only cassette tape she had in the car were like, Mariah Carey, Whitney Houston, and Wilson Phillips. Like she was me. That's awesome. That's awesome. She was me all the way back then. And she also, she came from a family of matriarchs and so she took really respons she took really I, I guess personally the responsibility she had. To be the leader of our family and to be fiercely independent and resilient and strong. But at the time, I think, as a kid, after losing her and trying to navigate this world that felt so hostile, I think I was just trying to make it from one day to the next. And I wasn't always convinced that the next day was worth making it to. But it was the people around me who got me through those difficult times. Resilience is important and I appreciate that you said, I think children are often very resilient and powerful, but the truth is that self-care has never been an individual activity. It's always a team sport, and there is no self care without community care. I'm only here because. There were really resilient and strong people around me who helped get me through those times. Yeah. I've always said, and have heard this many times through a lot of personal development work that I did very early on in my twenties, is that, children are born with this exuberance and this ability to just be themselves and skipping around the playground, for lack of a better term, and then someone says something and we get shifted by that. Our entire persona changes. We have to hide. We can't be, flamboyant, we can't be out, we can't be all those things because of fear of rejection. And so when I say resilience, I mean that we're born with this ability to just be ourselves. And then yeah, something happens. And it can be circumstantial, it could be person, it could be something like losing your mom. Did you have brothers and sisters, or are you only child? Yeah, I have siblings. I have two brothers and a sister that I grew up with. Okay. They're all much younger than me. Okay. And from different, like combinations of parents. But I. I think a part of my journey, through, through middle and high school, was needing to show up for them in a really meaningful way. They were young kids who had just lost their mom. My dad was, suddenly a single parent and working overtime to try to put food on the table. And so that put me in a position to be, the other adult figure in the house, even though I was just 12, 13, 14 years old. So I think some of my resilience and independence came from needing to be strong for them. And I'm so proud of the people that they are today. They're just, again, a reflection of the beautiful community around us. But I think that was part of the journey too. So tell us a little bit about high school for you, and going into college. What were those years like? Wow. High school was wild, and I'll tell you when I wrote my memoir, I struggled a lot with how honest to be about my childhood because, some of the other formative events that I've experienced in my life have been very public and people are familiar with them. They're aware of my story. And so those felt maybe less complicated to tell. Certainly not easier emotionally, but less complicated to put on paper. Talking about being a kid in that rural conservative, largely white community in Oregon was really complicated because I just, I didn't want people to take the wrong message and I was afraid of how people might receive it. And then somebody gifted me a book, it's called The Art of Memoir, and I encourage everyone to read it if you're going to write a book about yourself. But the author says, if people wanted me to say nicer things about them, they should have behaved better. And I printed that and I put it in my writing space as a reminder. It's a little cheeky, it's a little sassy. But as a reminder that I'm not writing the book for them, I'm writing the book for me and for the people who want to go on that journey with me. If they want to write their own memoir about my high school experience, they're welcome to. And they can certainly give their own perspective. High school was really hard for me. Again, I had this, this missing space at the dinner table where my mom used to be. I was navigating a community that didn't look or love like me. Very conservative, very rural, and yet I was always very public, right? I was running for student body office and I was starring in the shows at school. And I was living this very public life in our community while also being deathly afraid of the way that people were, perceiving me. And it all came to a head, really my junior, senior year of high school. When I started school as a freshman, I came up against, profoundly I don't even know how to say, for just racist, homophobic people in the community. It was sophomore year of high school, that Oregon band marriage by constitutional amendment when George Bush was running for reelection. And so then there was this big debate about people like me. And then my senior year of high school, it all erupted. The year started by we dis, this was the area of MySpace, and we discovered a secret MySpace group of kids that were going to school with us that had created a hit list of people of color in the school saying that these are the people who needed to go. So that's how the school year started. And the school year ended with protests outside of our school because people were uncomfortable that the student body leadership was queer. There were, two or three of us that were openly L-G-B-T-Q and it drew parents, grandparents, people who didn't have kids in school to the front of the school with signs that say things like, it's Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. So it was really a traumatic experience to try to be fully me in that community. I was not always out by my own choice. I was outed a number of times and again, I just, it broke my heart that I tried so hard to prove that I could be one of them, that I could fit into that community. And when push came to shove, their biases, their bigotry ultimately one out what are the thoughts and feelings that are running through your head when you are this obviously. At least for the exterior, very outgoing, very public like you said. What is, what's going through your head when you see signs like Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, or you see that protest and you're on this journey to be yourself. What are some of the feelings and thoughts that go through your head? For the people that I didn't know I remember this, I took the side door into school the day that the protests fully erupted outside. And so I could see through the front doors as I passed by them, dozens of parents, of kids who were going to school with us, holding these signs outside, screaming their heads off. And I remember feeling angry and also confused about why you care, why do you care about me and what I am, doing who I love. We're about to graduate in a matter of months and I likely will never see your child again. I just, I don't understand what your stake. In my lived experiences and why you feel so intensely that I should be quiet about who I am. But then I, I went through the rest of the day and I started to see my peers holding similar signs. There was a group of peers that had straight pride t-shirts on, and they had duct tape over their mouths as if to say they were being silenced by the queer agenda in the school. And I remember seeing these peers that I had done afterschool activities with, that I had spent a lot of time with whose homes I had spent time in for years. It's a small town. We've known each other since we were in kindergarten. And I'm looking at these peers who I know so well and I felt sad. Not just for me, but for them. And how soul crushing it must be. To feel like you have to perform that kind of hate because it was taught around your dinner table and, but deep down, you know who I am, the bonds that we built over the years. So it was a collection of anger, it was sadness. I felt deeply ashamed because there were a lot of adults. There were, our principal our, some of our teachers who were not there to support us. And I felt ashamed of who I was. I felt, confused about whether I had made a mistake being unapologetically me. That is not something any child should have to carry. No. I've said this a lot and it's a distinction that I learned in a personal development course I did many years ago. I was very involved in actually being trained to lead this work. And I remember the distinction that said, or that asked the question, did you think that thought or did the thought? Thank you. And I've applied that so many times to conversations with my guests over the last two seasons is that so much of what we see in this protest and in this march and in this attack on the community, it's like, are they thinking that thought or did the thought think them? And I love what you said, that it was what they're taught. We are taught these things. We don't have this rage and this hate within us. It's taught. Yeah. And I can't imagine what that was like. And that's why I asked the question of what that felt like. Because with this, and we used the term and you said it yourself as queer agenda. I didn't see a queer agenda in your conversation at this school. There just happened to be three people or several people on this board as this group that we're LGBTQ plus. And so that's the other thing that I just consistently shake my head at. I'd like to know where this agenda is and who wrote it.'cause I have never seen it. I don't know if you have, I just wonder what that's all about. My agenda was to graduate and go to college. Thank you. That was the agenda, was to get out there, get a good education and get and have a good life. That was the only agenda. But that's the agenda of every human being. Yes. Is you just want to live your life and you just want to do the things that you know, that you are meant to do and be the person that you are. And that's now more than ever why I was so excited to get you on the podcast today because that resonated and was repeated throughout both of the times you got up and spoke. It's so powerful and so I appreciate you saying that again today. So let's take you past that point then. So we've now graduated. You obviously made it through that and you've graduated, made that. What's the next step for Brendan? Where are you, what are you doing? Yeah. Graduation itself was a journey. And certainly folks can read the book if you want, all the juicy details. But in short. I had spent this childhood really trying to prove that I could be just as good as everyone else that I could be, that I could fit in, I could assimilate, I'm just like the rest of you. And it erupted senior year and just felt like the wheels were really coming off. There was a point at which I tried to resign as student body president my senior year because I felt I was a distraction and I was, making life worse for people. My advisor talked me out of it and she said, I think your presence is important now. More, more important now than ever. So I served out the rest of my term and the student body president is afforded the right to speak at graduation. The only people who speak are the valedictorian and the student body president. I got called into the vice principal's office a few weeks before graduation, and he said, unfortunately, we just don't think that it's a good idea if you get up there and speak, because we're not sure how people will respond to you. We're not sure what you're going to say. And it was one of those moments that I look back on now and realize it was always meant to be an advocate because I cleared my throat, I sat up straighter in my chair and I said, I'm going to make this easy for you. You're going to let me speak, or everyone that will ever hear my voice will know that it was you that did not let me get up on that stage. And that's the decision you have in front of you. I've earned the right to be on that stage. And if you decide that it's more important to save face than to allow me the moment that I've earned on that stage, then I'm just going to make sure everybody knows that it was you that made that decision. And then I got up and I walked outta the office and I got a call to from his secretary a couple days later that said you'll have three minutes in the program. And I wrote a speech about how hard it was to navigate that year together. But I think you probably heard from me on stage. I ended by, talking about how important it is that we stand together, that we choose community over division that we choose love over chaos. And it felt like a really fitting end to that journey to fight for my right to get up there and say, we can be better than this. I packed my suitcases, I went off to college after that, my dad helped me move in, and I really thought, this is it. College is where everybody gets their life together. Everything becomes easy after this point, right? If you've made it through high school. And maybe that's true for others, but I really struggled again, I was, going to a state school two hours from where I grew up. It was basically like high school, just a little bit bigger. And I struggled with many of the same things. Trying to find the place where I could belong, trying to find the right group of friends. I was struggling in classes. I ran for student Body office of course, again, because I thought that was the answer to all my problems. But honestly, college was not much better than high school, minus the fact that it was a little less structured. And so I was, more on my own. Was there a semblance of this start to advocacy there, or were you still in that space of just taking it day by day and going through the motions? I was real, I think by the time, I was in college and I was in my second year I just, I wasn't sure what the purpose was of any of it. I had professors who would ask me what I want to be when I grow up basically. And. I'd tell them all my hopes and dreams and they would say the world's not really ready for that. Right? Gay people don't do that. You have to either be closeted and learn to be more masculine, stiffen your wrist deep in the gravel in your throat, or you have to give up on that dream, like you can do a handful of things and be openly gay, but you can't do the big, bold, dreamy things you're thinking about. And I just, I remember, toward the end of that year thinking, this is it. This is the best that it ever gets. And I just have to, I just have to accept that, that people like me don't ever get the chance to chase their dreams like the people I see around me. And then, whether you believe in fate or coincidence, it was at that very moment I was at my, my job, I was working at Starbucks. I was sitting in the back room of my store. And my shift supervisor came in the back room holding a school newspaper and she said, oh my God, I saw this and thought of you. And I looked on the page and it was an ad and it said, help wanted Walt Disney Company. And it's like a light bulb went off. And I thought if there's anywhere in the world I can be really gay, it's gotta be Disney. And I was right by the way, it turned out to be right about that. So I called my grandmother and I said, grandma, I got a great idea. I'm going to drop out of college and I'm going to go be famous working for Disney. And like any good grandma, she said, how much do you need and when do you leave? Ah, she flew me to San Francisco. I auditioned for Disney, and a couple weeks later they said, we want you to move to Orlando and come work for us. Wow. Wow. Yeah. I normally don't do this, but I wanted to go back just a little bit on one thing and then we'll pick back up here. Sure. When you confronted the principal and you got up and you walked outta that office after you said what you said. What was going through your head at that moment? Was it, oh God, what did I just do? Or was it, this is Me. Oh, I'm going to, I thought I was going to throw up and then I immediately thought, I'm going to get expelled. Like in my last couple of weeks of school, my parents are going to hate me'cause I won't get to walk with the rest of my class. I'll just, I'll be booted from school. What on earth have I done? And I think the other thing to keep in mind is, this is before the social media age. Sure. So I'm not really seeing other young people doing those things. There's no Instagram feed, there's no TikTok videos. Unless it's showing up on the local nightly news, I'm not seeing other young people step up and do those things. Sure. And so it felt really isolating and, my, my parents and I didn't have the greatest relationship at that time, and I just thought, I think I've ruined everything. But when I got up there at graduation and I took the stage, cleared my throat and delivered my speech, I thought this is exactly what I'm supposed to be doing. And I've said this many times when I've heard stories like this, and I would love to have been a fly on the wall when you did that or in the mind of your principal and thinking what he thought when you said that and got up because he was not anticipating you to say that. I'm sure he was anticipating you to basically say, oh, okay. And bow your head and walk out the door. Yeah. Not say you have a choice. I get goosebumps. Like seriously, he was already was stunned. He was stunned. Goosebumps. And I think it's, in hindsight, it's like he should have known because, this is exactly who I was the whole time. I told you I ran four and one student by the office four times, so this is exactly who I was. I'm not sure what you thought you were getting, but Yeah. I delivered a very me performance in that room that day. Yeah. And I think he, as you said, it was unexpected and he understood, he really did not have a choice about what No. And I always laugh because I love Katy Perry. When she was on American Idol, she, when somebody would sing, she's oh, I have goosebumps. And I literally had goosebumps in the moment you said that. I'm like, oh, I wanted to be in his head and hear what he thought. So thank you for sharing that. Okay and I'm I'm sorry to belabor the childhood thing, but No, I think the context here is at the beginning of the year when we discovered this MySpace group of, basically neo-Nazis who had created their own little. Club at the school and were operating online so that they didn't get caught in person. We brought that to the principal's attention and printed out the group page and handed it to him and said, these are the students that are doing it. This is what's happening. And he basically shrugged us off and said boys will be boys. I would just ignore'em. And our responder, I have another friend whose name I had to change in the book just in case, but I have another friend who called and said, what are we supposed to do? And I said, I don't really know. And she said, I'm calling the news stations. And so she called every news station in town herself. Whoa. She shared this news. And the very next day, every news truck. In suburban Portland was outside doing interviews with students about the like secret, neo-Nazi group that was running in the school. And that totally changed the dynamic of our relationship as leaders with, the principal, the vice principal of the school. So all of that is context. When I walk in the room and I say, you have a choice. In the back of his mind, he's thinking six months ago we did this choice thing and we ended up with eight news cameras outside. So I think I'm not going to make that choice this time. It did not go well for, did not go well for him the last time. No. Thanks for looping that in. So let's go back. So now you're at Disney, you're living in Orlando. Yes. Talk about an opportunity, right? Yeah. And a different space for you to be in. What was that like? Oh, it was night and day different. And again, people who I loved very much had been telling me the world's not ready for someone like you. You're just going to have to be different. If you want to make it in the world, you can't be you. And then I get to Orlando and specifically start working at Disney in the entertainment department as a dancer. And it's oh, there is a world and not just a world that's ready for me, but a world that was built by and for me, right? That all of a sudden, all of my bosses are queer people. All of my colleagues are queer people. So many are people of color, not just from across the United States, but from across the world who've had different lived experiences, speak different languages, eat different foods. And it was almost like the universe breathed dec sigh of relief with me that I had discovered this place that was meant for me all along. And I went into that experience telling my parents I'd be there for nine months to do a contract, and I ended up living there for 15 years because, oh gosh. It just felt like that's where I was meant to be. That was home for me. Unbelievable. Yeah. That's so great because. I'm sure that moment, and I love you were saying exactly what I was thinking was it was that moment of exhale for you. Yeah. So often, and even today, let's face it, there are days I go through current news cycles and I hold my breath all day long. Yeah. Feeling this sense of fear or hopelessness or panic, whatever that is. And it's in those moments of being with the community, it's in those moments of being surrounded by the people. It's going to make me emotional around the people who make an impact, not only for us, but for the world. That we can actually exhale and breathe into who we are. And I always say, and I've had people contact me from across the country, that are in those type of very rural, suburban communities that don't have access to that type of experience. And the only advice that we can give is search for it. Look for it. Reach outside of your comfort zone. Find it. Find your people. Find that teacher. Find that person at Starbucks, you know who's going to hold you, hold that space for you. It's so important. And today, more than ever, we need to find those spaces. I'm 59 years old and I still need that space. I need to find that space of comfort and joy and community. So obviously this journey now in Orlando, and with your time with Disney and this space that you were thriving in, obviously provided a very significant turn in your life and a moment that probably changed you and many others families forever. Do you mind sharing a little bit about that? Yeah I think it's important to name that while I found this sense of wonder and imagination when I first got to Orlando and really started digging into things that I'd never experienced before, I think I really found safety and belonging for the first time when I met my best friend Drew. Our chosen family was built. We met in 2014. We were on this half blind date that, didn't turn into love and marriage, but turned into something I think more important, which was a brotherhood. In many ways I felt like Drew was the older brother that I never got to have. And. He really reshaped my ability to imagine what's possible in the world. He was never afraid to challenge my perspective, to ask me to think, differently about the world. I'll never forget during the the 2016 primary, I was solidly Bernie bro, and he was definitely a Hillary, diehard, and we had so many debates about the future of the country. But even in the hardest of conversations about the most difficult of subjects, he brought so much care and love and you could tell that he loved me without condition, without question. He's also one of the first people that told me, you can be whatever you want to be. That the world had better get ready because we're already here. Everything about his friendship and his love was revolutionary for me. I'd never experienced someone who loves like me and lived like me that could be so boldly and unapologetically themselves. And then in 2015, he met his partner, Juan, and we became the Three Musketeers. And I think it, it was in meeting them and becoming close to them, that I really discovered what chosen family means and what it feels like. And it became clear to me for the first time that safety and belonging were never about four walls. They were always about community. I had been searching for the room that it lives in for so long, and it turned out it was in the room with us every single time we got together. So I had these, drew and Juan, these beautiful friends, these brothers that changed my life. And even to that point, I had not become an advocate because. This is what I fought for. I wanted to be normal. I got a slice of normal. Now my job is to ride it off into the sunset. And then one summer night in June on June 11th, 2016 I had spent the day by the pool. I'd done some laundry. It was a normal Saturday. And I texted Drew and Juan and asked if they wanted to get a drink. They got to my apartment. We listened to music. I think this is something I've learned as cultural gay men love to watch music videos. So we watched music videos before going out. When we called an Uber and decided where to go, we went to our safe space. We went to our neighborhood bar Pulse nightclub, which is, the bar. We'd been to hundreds if not more times than that. And everything about it was normal too. It was, there was a long line outside. There was this drag queen who was always scowling when she snatched your money out of your hand, and she was there to snatch our money. You would part the beaded doorway and walk across the dance floor to the bar. We went to the same bartender we always went to. We ordered the same drinks we always ordered. We had this usual spot on the patio outside, and, it's Florida, so you like to get a little warm air in the night. And we were standing in our usual spot and Drew was a clinical psychologist. And so when he'd had a drink or two, he'd offer you a free therapy session whether you wanted that or not. And that night he was really passionately talking about how frustrated he was that we so often let the little things get in the way of how much we care about each other. He was talking about, how deeply irritated it made him that we so often focused on the things that made us different, instead of focusing on what makes us similar to the people around us. And he had these long, gangly arms and he would throw one over your shoulder when he was about to make his point. And he threw an arm over my shoulder and he said, I guess what I'm saying is I wish we said I love you more often. And that conversation feels like a gift to me because it is my last really vivid memory of the chosen family that we built together. It was not long after that I was washing my hands at the bathroom sink while Drew and Juan were enjoying one last dance together. And a gunman charged through the front doors and open fire on our safe space. He was carrying a sig sour MCX, which has been referred to as the next generation AR 15. He used it to pour over 110 rounds of ammunition into our club. I was really lucky that I locked arms with a dozen people that I don't know whose names I wouldn't recognize today, and made an exit through an emergency exit door. I remember the fog machine smoke still billowing in the air. The music still rattling the floorboards. I remember the relentless sound of gunfire, the smell of blood and smoke in this deep grief that I felt because I had not gotten a chance to say goodbye to my grandparents. And I was convinced that I would not make it out to see them again. And then I also remember this overwhelming sense of relief when the door flung open and we stumbled out into the parking lot and. Perhaps the most profound emotional shift for me that night was something happened in the air. I don't know how to describe it. I don't know what it was other than to say I felt the moment that Drew left and it consumed me almost immediately the pain of having lost him. And we didn't learn for, a day and a half what happened to him. But I just knew in the moments after we stumbled into that parking lot, I just knew that he wasn't there anymore. And it is to this day, it's a wound that is just so raw still. My best friends, drew and Juan were wrapped in each other's arms underneath their favorite disco ball, dancing in their favorite spot on the dance floor. Neither one by the way, knowing that they were each planning to propose to each other very soon when that man took the lives of both of them. I knew this moment was going to come in this conversation today, and I told myself I wasn't going to lose it. But it's hard not to, it's hard not to be with you in that moment. And with all those people who were there celebrating themselves and celebrating life it's a tragedy that we will never forget, obviously. And I thank you for being honest about it and sharing that part of the story. I know it's gotta be difficult. Thank you. I want to use this moment to then transition in respect to them and everyone who lost their lives that night, to talk a little bit about what happens next for Brandon. Yeah. And what I feel as though, brought you into a space that would then simply change our lives forever and be a space and a voice that would be known for something different than you were known for when you were back in school, right? Yeah. As your student government leader and the moment that you confronted your principal. It's why I like to go back and have people share the beginning part of their journey because I really see so many times people have become who they were back then. But the route, the journey, the path is always different. Yeah. And it's filled with insurmountable highs and insurmountable lows. So can you share a little bit then about. What started to develop in you with where it's gotten to you now? Like how do you go from that, Brandon, how do you go from that experience to that next step? What did you do? What was that process for you? The next few days were, are I don't even know how to describe them because I've experienced loss before. I've experienced loss since, I, again, I lost my mom when I was really young. I lost my grandma a few years ago who was another matriarch in our family. So I understand what loss feels like, what grief feels like. This was unlike anything I could ever describe to anyone. It was catastrophic. To my. Soul to my heart, to, to my ability to be centered in myself. And I can honestly tell you that in those first days that followed, I was not sure that any day was worth living for anymore. I just wasn't convinced. And every time I wanted to wake up and make things normal again, I would be reminded that you have to do it without them. That you know you're going to get married someday and they won't get to be there. You're going to have a birthday and they're not going to get to be there. You're going to buy your first home and they won't get to be the ones to pop the champagne. And every moment felt like this. This part of me had been ripped away. And so in those first days, I really didn't have this dream of I'm going to go out and try to fight for something better. I just, I want to know that tomorrow's going to be okay. And then, I started to consume the media that everyone was consuming. I started to hear how they were telling our stories. I became increasingly frustrated. That they were putting everything through a political prism. Instead of talking about the people who had, who'd had their lives upended by this tragedy. It was, is it going to help Donald Trump? Is it going to help Hillary Clinton? It was just disgusting to me to watch people reduce our tragedy to, a political horse race. And then the most pivotal moment came on just, a few days after the tragedy. It was the next weekend we had a funeral service for Drew. And it's the day you're never really prepared for, is coming. And his mom asked me to do two things that day. She said, can you be a pallbearer? And I'd love for you to say some words from the podium. So I sat in the parking lot and I tried to write a eulogy and I just, I couldn't, what do you even say? When, the person who's meant more to you than any other person on Earth is just gone. So I sat there for some time, I jotted down some words and I I went into the church. We spent some time together with the family, and then we went to take our place to help guide the casket down the aisle. And we picked this cathedral in downtown that could fit seven or 800 people thinking any person whose life drew had ever touched would be able to have a seat. We come out from behind the stage and there were over a thousand people there. They're spilling into the streets. Wow. And I didn't know every single one of them, but I knew that Drew knew them. And that was, I could just feel that connection with each person that was in the room. So I was overwhelmed, I was overcome, with just the love that was in the room. And I started to help guide the casket down the aisle. And I found myself holding on so tightly, and I think in reflecting it's because I didn't want to let go of him until I'd really found the right words to say goodbye. So we got to the front of the church and I looked down and I whispered to him that I would never stop fighting for a world that he would be proud of. And for me, that was it. Once I had committed to him that was going to define who I was for the rest of my life, I was in it and there was no escaping it. And that was a really big promise. And there are some days where I'm like, damnit did I mean it. I'm so sorry I take it back. But when it is at its hardest, when the obstacles feel their most insurmountable, I am reminded that I do it not for me, but I do it so that the next generation of Drews and Brandons don't have to move 3000 miles from home to find a place to belong. Because they belong exactly where they are. I'm taken right back to the HRC dinner and your amazing words because they hit hard. And they hit a place where people need to allow them to hit. And what I mean by that is so many times I get worried that we've become desensitized to this kind of loss. And what we don't have the opportunity to do is to be with someone that was close to the person who is no longer with us. Yeah. And by virtue of you having that relationship with him, but then the thousand people and there were probably more that weren't able to attend to pay their respects and honor him. It's a powerful moment. Yeah. Brandon, and one that, it's hard to say that we hope we never have to experience, but if we do, is a moment that I think defines us. So thank you for being so honest and open about that moment. I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, that's an experience at the nightclub in addition to his service, that you never forget that's with you for the rest of your life, and that you are then challenged with finding that space and that place to be with that grief and that loss and that remembrance, but then continue on your own path. And like you said, I'm sure there are days that you question is it worth it? And for the observer and for the listener, we know that it's worth it. We know that there are opportunities for us to shift and to create in the darkest of times. And I think that's what you do. And I've only really known you a very short amount of time. I've spent a lot of time on your social media. What I do at five in the morning when the dog's up and I'm drinking my coffee. I'm sorry.'cause I really do forget to post on my feed, so that's a reminder. It's, I need to get a post up. But it's even going back and just looking at people's lives, right? And as much as I hate social media and I really don't like it, it is an opportunity to meet people in a place. And yes, we know there are fake accounts and there are people who aren't really being true, but those you can suss out after you spend enough time looking. But one of the things that has become so evident about who you are is, although your one person in this world, your stance and your voice is pretty powerful. So you go through this experience, you then have. A multitude of opportunities. I don't want to go too far down that path of where you went from that moment, because I want to be respectful of your time, but I want to jump ahead a little bit to where you are now in this position that to me, even though I am a relatively good public speaker and somebody who has a lot of passion and conviction in my life, you hold a position and a responsibility for an organization that is out to protect us. Give us a little brief glimpse of that journey. How did you go from this experience into where you are at now? Yeah, so I, I, once I made that promise to Drew, I was like, okay, two feet in, you gotta just do it. And I started asking how my story, how my journey could help move people to see the humanity behind the issues we were talking about. Started volunteering on campaigns. I started volunteering at Equality Florida, which is Florida's statewide LGBT, civil Rights Organization. And then in 2019 I got a call from their executive director who said, what if you stopped, dilly dalian around and just decided to do this full-time. And I said, I don't even know. I work at Starbucks. I don't know what would translate to the movement. And so she said, why don't you think about what role you would want, what kind of work you would want to do, and let's see what we can build together. I went away for a couple of days and I came back and I said, okay, you know how there's a White House press secretary? Imagine if we had one of those for queer people and how fun would that job be? And she said I don't know. We've not had an earned media person in the past, but maybe that's something we could build together. So in early 2019, I left my career at Starbucks. I'd been there for many years at that point. And I went to work at Equality Florida as their first ever press secretary. I was there for four and a half years. And then in my last full year there, I testified before Congress for a second time. And on my panel was newly minted HRC, president Kelly Robinson, who Kelly grabbed my contact, said we should stay in touch. A few months later, she said, we have this job that's opening up. I think you might be right for it. The last person to hold it was Sarah McBride. And you just feel like maybe the right fit for this role. We sat down in DC together and talked about our vision for, how to change the narrative in this country and how to show up unapologetically and fiercely in the space. And I took a leap. So in the summer of 2023, I moved on the train from Orlando, Florida to Washington, dc and I truly, I tell people every day I have to pinch myself. I'm humbled, I'm honored. And my job is to ensure that every time our lives are up for debate, that our voices are squarely at the table. I can't imagine the two of you speaking together. I've had the privilege of hearing her speak as well, and I just, she's amazing. She's ridiculously amazing. And it's, I know I saw her give her we were on that panel, which was which an incredible experience. It's not the same as seeing her on stage, like delivering a stump speech. And the first time I did was. When I got to HRC, the national Dinner was just weeks after I started. Joe Biden was there, as we do, and I'm feeling really like a fish outta water. I'm in a new pond, and Kelly gave up there and gave her stump speech, and the first thing I thought is, I gotta get better at public speaking because I'm in a whole new uncharted territory. But she's really a remarkable leader and incredible speaker. She's very motivational, inspirational. Yeah. And I'm honored to work with her. One of my biggest kind of peeves in life is when you go to these amazing fundraising dinners and as an event producer in my. Current life, I've produced a lot of them. And so as a guest it even irks me more when, listen, people are having a good time. They've paid money to be there, they're eating and they're drinking a lot. And then people get up to talk and the audience talks through the presentations. Yeah. And it is my biggest peeve. I am not just saying this'cause you're on my podcast, but I will tell you that you and she are the only two speakers at an event that I've been to where you could hear a pin drop in the room and one of them particular was the garden party in Palm Springs last year when she came to speak. And usually it's just this roar of people in the crowd talking'cause they're there socializing and celebrating and she started speaking and everyone just got silent. And the same with you. She's got a power. She's got a power. So for those in our remaining minutes, for those who don't know, what is HR C's Lane? Tell us about that. The people who don't know. The human rights campaign is the nation's largest L-G-B-T-Q Civil Rights Organization. And, I, when I think about what our responsibility is in this moment it, it boils down to this, our responsibility is to fight for the dignity and equality that LGBTQ plus people deserve in all the places where they spend the most time. Whether that is at work, whether that is at school, whether that is shaping the policy and politics that allow us to live, work, and play in our communities free from discrimination. That's H C's job. And it is a really difficult job in this moment, be as we know, because, the wheels are coming off in Washington, DC and Donald Trump if we would allow him, would use our community to roll back rights and freedoms for everyone in this country. So I think we have a really important. Role to play in bringing our 3.6 million members to bear on the politics and policies of this country on ensuring that kids can go and learn in classrooms that will treat them with dignity and respect on making sure that when you go to work you can come home and put food on the table and not be afraid that you'll lose your job simply because of who you are or who you love. It's a lot, it's a big old task right now, but I hope that people know that when you see that blue and yellow equal sign, it's like a shield. Yeah. That, that, that tells you that the people who go to work every single day at HRC are here to defend and protect you. And that we still believe in a future that is better for all of us. Yeah. I've been around the organization a long time and have had the privilege of serving on various committees and roles within the organization, and I think. One of the things that is so powerful is that presence and the fact that this is not something that I don't want to say we can do on our own. Because in just being our true selves and living our truth, that makes a huge impact. But we also need community. And that's the one thing that HRC provides across the country and also globally. People watch and people see the thing, Brandon, that keeps me up at night and that gives me nightmares is where I get emotional, are the kids and the young people today I know you see a lot and you hear a lot and you experience a lot through your travels and through your work with them. What do you say to the young people that are out in the world today, especially here in the US, that are afraid? What do you say to them? I. I think about them a lot too. And honestly, it's one of the things that sat with me so intensely in the wake of the pulse tragedy was, would someone stealing our friends lead others to question whether it would ever be safe to be themselves? Yeah. And would that dim their shine? Would that keep them from shining as brightly as they could? I was really worried about that. But in my journey, I think I've discovered a couple things. One, young people have this imagination that simply can't be squelched. And even when they're afraid, even when things are terrifying and they're not sure, what the future holds. They have these moments where they storm into the vice principal's office and demand it anyway. And there's something so inspiring about that. I think a lot about when I spent time with the students from Parkland in the wake of their tragedy in 2018, and I entered the room for the first time with these students. Feeling a responsibility to deliver a powerful, inspiring message to them that I have to be the one to pick them up off the mat. And they got into this circle of students at a vigil we were hosting. And the words evaporated and I just, I stood in front of them and I started to cry. And I just said, I'm so sorry. I'm sorry we couldn't protect you. I'm sorry we failed you. And these students gathered around me in one giant group hug and they said to me, we're going to win with this intensity, this passion, this defiance that was like nothing could squash their belief that better was possible. So I guess the biggest thing I would say is I encourage them to never lose that defiant, resilient sense of optimism because the world needs it, right? As adults, I think sometimes we lose our ability to imagine. We're a little bit jaded by the world and the failures that have happened throughout our lives. And young people just don't have that yet. They're impatient for their imagined world to be real. And the other thing I say to them all the time is the world needs you exactly as you are. If I could go back and time and tell my younger self something, it would be don't wait for permission to be you because the world needs you exactly as you are. There are going to be a whole lot of people who tell you to shave down this edge or mute this part of you. And that will be the magic key to making you, palatable to other people. And then you'll get decades down the road and you'll wish you never listened to him in the first place. Just make that decision now to be fully, unapologetically, authentically you, and I promise you the world will be better for it. So I'm laughing because you're only the second guest in two seasons of this podcast. That answered my final question before I ask the final question. Love. We're like mind melding. That's what it is. So I'm only laughing because my powerful last question you just basically answered yourself. But that's super powerful'cause I always ask people like, if you could go back to your younger self, what would you tell them? Oh, great. So you stole that there. But so my two final questions for you, Brandon. This what's next for you? I, this is going to sound so Politiciany, so I'm just going to say that out front is that it's going to sound politiciany, but it genuinely everything really did change for me after Pulse. I, I, before that tragedy, I cared a lot about. The white picket fence and the suburban and the two and a half kids in the backseat, and the job with the title and the, all of that mattered to me because those were the barometers for success that I'd been, taught from a very young age. And Pulse reminded me that there's so much more out there than that. And that we all have a responsibility to do our part, to make the world a better place. So for me it's never really about title, location, perks, all of those things. It is about where can I be to have the greatest impact? Where can I be to make good on that promise to drew of a world that he would be proud of? And for now, that's exactly where I am. This movement needs me in this role doing this work. It doesn't mean that will be forever. We never know what the future may hold, and I'm, I'll always keep options open, but I will just say that I get to wake up every single day doing exactly what I'm meant to be doing in this moment and having the absolute greatest impact I can have. I can tell you this you are doing Drew, proud Absolutely. Doing the work that you said and the making, keeping the promise that you said. So I know he's looking down on you and very proud and very grateful to you for the work that you're doing. As am I could sit and talk to you forever. I just find you incredibly. Captivating and powerful. And the fact that you've had all this experience and you look like you're 25 is ridiculous. A serious, it's, no, I think it's zoom's blur filters. It's you're using the filters as zoom's blur. Oh yeah. That's all maximum strength is what? Exactly. Prescription strength zoom blur over here. That's not true. But you can say that. You can say that if you want. I'm super grateful to you today and I know your story and your journey will resonate. You're always welcome to come back. There was so much to talk about as you were talking. My head was filled with questions about things that we can do to not only make this world better now, but leave it better than we found it. Yeah. There are ways that we can fight for our rights and different ways. If you don't feel that you can get up and march the ways that you can actually make a difference by supporting organizations that are out there fighting for us. Yeah. And making sure that we are safe and protected. We're going to make sure that people have access to your website and to your book, and hopefully they'll follow you on social media. So get out there and post my friend I'll you have a great story. Tell I owe you all a post. I promise you, you owe us all a post. I look forward to our paths crossing again, but I want to just genuinely say thank you for spending some time with us today and sharing your story. My condolences for your loss. Thank you. And I just, I know that you are out to make this world a better place. And knowing that you're in it, and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting in this podcast space with me, but knowing that you are out there with people like Kelly and others, locking arms gives me that release and that exhale that I need to know that it's going to be okay. So thank you for your time today and I wish you the best. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We'll talk soon, okay? Okay. Bye for now. Bye. Alright, everyone, thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just Do You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends and if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just Do you pod as you go out into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.