S2E27 with Dr. Jailyn Avila - Choosing Truth in a World That Pushes Back

As the trans community continues facing increasing threats, misinformation, and attempts to silence their lived experiences, this conversation is a reminder of why telling our stories — and protecting spaces where truth can exist — matters more than ever.

My guest is Dr. Jailyn Avila, an emergency medicine physician whose journey began in Southern California, growing up in an immigrant, military-conservative household. Like so many, Jailyn followed the path she believed was expected of her — until she began listening more closely to the quiet, persistent voice within.

After leaving home, getting married, and completing medical school and an emergency medicine residency, Jailyn embraced her authentic self. She transitioned, stepped fully into her truth, and today lives in San Diego with her wife and three kids.

In this conversation, Jailyn speaks with honesty and grace about identity, family, medicine, and motherhood — and about the courage it takes to live openly in a world that doesn’t always make space for trans joy or safety.

The JUST DO YOU. podcast exists to be a safe place — especially for LGBTQ+ voices — to share stories of becoming, resilience, and self-trust. This episode is an invitation to listen, learn, and stand in solidarity.

Because living your truth isn’t just personal — it’s powerful.

Welcome to the conversation.

To learn more about Dr Avila, you can visit: https://jailynavila.com/

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:05

Hello everyone. Welcome to the Just Do You Podcast. My name is Eric Nicoll, and I'm your host. If you are a first time listener, welcome to the conversation and if you're a regular, I'm honored that you've decided to join me for another episode. The Just Do You Podcast is centered around a network of conversations, which are meant to connect us, to inspire us, to find our own confidence, our own voice, and to live our own truth. And who knows, we might even learn a little something new that ultimately allows us to live in the sweet spot that I like to call the Just do you space of being. Each week, I have the privilege of sitting down for unscripted conversations with friends, family, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers that all share their own personal journeys. I hope that you enjoy our time together as much as I have. We are certainly going to laugh, and yes, we might even cry a little, but in the end, we are going to know that we're not alone during our life's journey. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to the conversation. Alright everyone, welcome to today's episode. I am super honored to have my guest on today. We met earlier this year at a human rights campaign fund, gala dinner here in San Diego for the first time that I was actually able to attend that event.'cause I'm usually traveling around that time. And I had the honor and privilege of sitting with some of the most extraordinary people that were introduced to me by our mutual friends. And through my interactions with this guest and some conversations, I invited her to be a guest on today. And here she is. Finally. So everyone, please give a warm welcome to Dr. Jailyn Avila. Hi Jailyn. How are you? I'm doing well. And it was so lovely meeting you that dinner was so much fun. The process leading up to it and dressing up is naturally my. Favorite thing to do in the whole world. And then everybody at our table is great and everybody at every other table is great. And the speakers were amazing. If anybody listening is considering going to an HRC Gala dinner, please go. It is amazing. It's life changing. I will say that I think everybody needs to go to an HRC Gala dinner. I don't think they should think about it. I think they should go. It becausecause. What? I just do it. Just do it. Because what I find so fascinating is we live in this very kind of insular world, right? San Diego has a dinner, LA Washington, dc all the big cities have a dinner. And yet I've been to several and in different cities. And San Diego is a super special place. Obviously we know that it's where we call home. It's where we work. But I have to say that as well, I went and met some of the most extraordinary people and I knew our hosts, our table hosts. But the speakers left me with this. Amazing sense of pride, although I already am very proud of who I am and who we are as a community. It's when you hear that larger organizations and people outside of your circle are fighting for our community and stand for our community and are out there to make sure that we are accepted and seen and respected and loved. It is a powerful place to be and it really is. Great. Our table, I think was the best, but we'll just keep that to ourselves. Those two tables are full of great people. But I invited you on today, number one because I was taken by you and your wife, a beautiful couple. You're incredibly tall and incredibly beautiful. Thank you. And I don't normally say that to a lot of people being six four myself. Yeah. But I instantly started to respond to your energy and as I did some research and kind of found out who you are and what you're up to for our listeners, Dr. Avila is. Extraordinary. And I want to just read a brief little intro and then we're going to launch into the conversation. As I did my homework, as I always do, I was teasing with Jailyn earlier. It's quite long and quite impressive, so I scaled it down to a few cents. Thank you. But Dr. Avila is a board certified emergency physician with an extraordinary amount of experience in emergency ultrasound. She has more than a decade of academic medicine experience. She's trained clinicians she's created curriculum for these leading institutions. And she's delivered hundreds of workshops and lectures worldwide that revolve around ultrasound and LGBTQ plus healthcare. And she is a dedicated mentor for future leaders and. Like I said, just a really impressive cv. So welcome again, Dr. Villa. Thank you to our podcast. And I don't want to be so informal as to call you Jailyn, but you let me know how. Oh, please call me Jailyn. Oh my goodness. Yeah. Sounds good, please, Jailyn. Sounds good. All right. So I'd like our listeners to get to know you a little bit. As the Just Do You podcast, we're in our second season, and the conversations are designed to be a get to know you conversation. It's like you and I are sitting down and having a cup of coffee, and so I always like to take my guests back because as we talk about just do you, just being you and finding that authentic space, I have found so fascinating through a course of, I want to say about 80 episodes at this point. People's journey and where they come from is super important. So if you could give us just a little glimpse of the young Jailyn, where did you grow up? What was family life like? Brothers, sisters, mom and dad. Give us a little bit of hint of that and then we'll weave our way through to current. Great. Yeah. I was born in Loma Linda, California which is on two and a half without traffic hours north of where we currently live. And I don't remember too much about my, early childhood naturally'cause I was a baby. I went to a seventh Day Adventist school that was the community in which I was raised. And my dad joined the military joined the Navy to pay for his medical school. So I got to see the kind of medical school process and training and all that stuff. As much as you can absorb being, a early elementary school, middle elementary school aged person, when that happens and we got. Stationed after, Loma Linda, after he graduated medical school, we moved to Virginia. Spent four years there, and then went to Naples, Italy for two years, which was great. And then I spent my first year of college in Argentina and then did the last four years of college in Riverside in California which is close to Loma Linda. And then did residency in Chattanooga Medical School in Loma Linda. I did residency in Chattanooga, in Tennessee. Did a fellowship in Kentucky. I stayed there for, I think it was six or seven years. And then moved back here in 20, late 2020. To 20 21, 20 22, somewhere around there. And that's the broad overview. Obviously there's a lot of details in the middle, but that's the broad overview of how I got to be sitting here at this desk talking to you. That's all. Amazing. Amazing. Loma Linda is obviously a very well-known school. I have a couple of friends who went to medical school there, and Riverside, like you said, is just up the road here a little bit from us. Did you know early on that you were going to be a doctor or did you want to be a doctor because of your dad or was that something that came on later in life? As a scientist, I can't say that I wasn't heavily influenced by my dad, but. From second grade around that time is when I was like I'm going to be a doctor. And the earliest memory I had of wanting that was my, first year of med school. Traditionally, one of the bigger courses is an anatomy course. And we're actually, as a kind of country, we're moving away from doing dissections as part of the anatomy course. There's a lot of reasons why that is the case. But that was, it's always, even when I went to medical school, dissections were very that was mostly what we did when we went to school. We had to study a lot. But when we went to school, a lot of it, at least in the first semester, was going to cadaver lab and. So my, my dad had a dissection book and the dissection book in the house. It was real pictures and I found it one day and I just devoured it. I wanted to just spend time looking at it and seeing all the, how the muscles worked, where the nerves were, how the heart worked, lungs, everything. I was so enthralled by it. And, this is a second grader and I think my my parents were wondering like, oh my God, is she going to be like a serial killer? Is this going to be like a Dexter situation? Dexter, I was just going to say that. Yeah. Yeah. Very Dexter. It was like that. And they actually, they bought me like a kid appropriate version with cartoons. I say I'm more kid appropriate, right? It's all medicine, it's biology. But from their perspective, a more, appropriate book and I never opened it and I would just sneak into my dad's office and find it. He put a a cover on it to make it like a little more nondescript. He would try to hide it in his bags his school bags. But I would always find it, and it was hard for me to communicate that when I was in second grade. But it wasn't. Morbid fascination. It was intellectual fascination. I wanted to know what it was. And I almost found I don't know, like fulfillment or joy or the, there's, there was something in me that needed to understand how the mechanics of an arm worked and what bones looked like and what organs I had and all that. And so that was the first time I remembered it. And then, it was a, my major in college was quite different from medicine. I was a music major in college. Oh, wow. But even with that, my, my goal was always med school. That was always the goal. I did music because I had been I started playing the violin when I was four. I switched over to Viola when I was in middle school. Because as you alluded to I'm quite tall, girly, and, so it just fit better.'cause violin's a bit smaller. Viola typically is a bit bigger. And to fit me better my younger brother's, four years younger, also a physician. He had already started playing the cello and so I, I didn't want to play the same instrument as him, and I liked strings. And so that was what was left. So I did the music major and then I applied to one medical school, which in retrospect, was really risky to because I wasn't, I wasn't like a phenomenal student. I did pretty average. I did pretty average in my MCATs, which is the entrance examination for med school. And luckily I got in, obviously you did as you sit here today, right? Yes. As a very successful physician. Did you have a lot of brothers and sisters? Was the family big? No. We, I had one I had one brother, one brother, four years younger. And we had a lot of cousins. I think my mom was one of six. My dad was one of two, but all of his family, there was a lot of kids. I probably have, last I counted, I think I have maybe 10 ish first cousins, 10 or 12 first cousins. And then we're Venezuelan. And you just compound that to second cousins. Third cousins. And I have a hundred cousins big family and yeah. And we were very close. My family and I my extended family, I'll say. And us were very close. That was basically what we did on Saturday called Sabbath. That's what we did. We all got together and we spent, after church, we spent the entire day together. And so it's a very important part of my upbringing. Was the medical profession, obviously you said your brother's a doctor and your dad was a doctor. Were there other members of that extended family that were also in medicine My mom was also a nurse. Oh, wow. My medicine wasn't my dad's first career. He was a music major. He was a pianist and a composer and a music producer. So he did a little more of the backend stuff, although he was a phenomenal pianist as well. I had my mom's, one of my mom's sisters is a physician and her husband's a physician. But besides that, it wasn't like a common thing, although I will say that almost all of us at some capacity have educational or teaching roles which that's something that also is foundational to me. It's a very important part of how I perceive myself and what is important in my life is education. And I think that is probably very likely an inherited trait. I can only imagine. I agree. When you went into medicine, was there a conversation about specializing within this particular field of ultrasound and, or, and also I should say did you have a particular kind of slant towards our community? The, regarding the first question, not necessarily my dad was an anesthesiologist and he spoke very, his personality. He spoke very highly of anesthesiologists and everybody else, was not smart. To say it nicely what happened for me when I was in medical school, we are, our first two years are a lot of classroom work. First year is focused on how the body works. Second year is focused on pathology with diseases. And then third and fourth years are clinical rotation. So we have a lot of studying to do still. But, we're in the hospital, we're in clinics, we're in the operating room to get us exposed to a bunch of other specialties. And my issue was that I liked everything. There literally was not a rotation that I didn't enjoy it. I actually, it's not really a secret, but every rotation that I was at, I would tell the people I wanted to do that profession. It wasn't really a lie'cause I didn't really know what I wanted to do. But. They spent extra time on me. They let me do more things. They spent more time teaching me, and I got to experience more. And I think that honestly helped. My two favorite rotations in med school actually were O-B-G-Y-N and psychiatry. Those were my absolute, like top rotations I had. It was so amazing. I remember the first time I delivered a, a baby, it was just like the most beautiful thing I'd ever encountered in my life is, bringing a, helping, I'll say, bring a baby into this world. And then psychiatry was just. Fascinating. Oh my goodness. It was just amazing to be able to identify all of the personality traits that my family members had. So that was nice. I did a fourth year rotation and usually by fourth year we've already decided what we wanted to do. But I wasn't sure, I thought maybe I want to do internal medicine with critical care.'cause that seemed like the one that would, you would interact with all of those specialties. And I knew I didn't want to be in an operating room. I don't have the attention span for that. And I did my emergency medicine rotation and on my second shift, my first shift, it was just the ER can be very chaotic. And so my first shift, I was just a little. Surprised I guess, at the chaos. But by my second shift I was like, oh my goodness this is it. This is what I want to do. And there's a bunch of lifestyle stuff that fit really well with how I wanted to, be an adult. And so to answer your question, it wasn't really like I always wanted to do that. It's, I always wanted to be a doctor, and then I discovered emergency medicine, and then after that I discovered the. Importance of a bedside ultrasound and how helpful it can be with really any patient. An ultrasound is something that can be used in any specialty. I'd say probably not a pathology, I imagine.'Cause I mean they don't always, like you do any interactions with patients, but really any other specialty, there's a place where ultrasound actually is something that improves patient care and accuracy and all that stuff. So I just fell into it. It wasn't that I was, I don't think I was predestined to be an emergency medicine physician, just, to be a doctor. And then I figured out I really liked emergency medicine and I still do. It's it's been 13 years since I graduated med school. And I still love it. I still love being an ER doctor and I'm still happy to work. It is amazing. I I have friends and family in medical profession and I'm always amazed. I've been in the hospital a couple times myself successfully, but I love being in those spaces and watching the chaos that you talk about. It's not something that I could particularly do, although I have my own chaos and my own industry is a little different. Of course, we're not saving lives. We're not saving lives. But I have a funny ultrasound story. So many years ago I was diagnosed with a liver condition and they had to do a ultrasound. And I was at UCI Medical Center here in Southern California and I was getting the ultrasound and it's a teaching hospital, so a lot of the technicians in radiology were students. And there was this young gal there, and she's giving me the ultrasound and know she's checking out all the internal organs, liver, liver and gallbladder and all that stuff. And she's at one point. In the midst of the ultrasound. She says are you doing okay? And I looked at her and I said, yes, but I don't want to know the sex. And she paused and didn't say anything. And about maybe, and I thought, oh, I was just not going to push it.'cause the joke just fell completely flat. And about 30 seconds later she goes, oh, I get it. Since then, we had a good laugh about it, but, oh, I love that. I was so embarrassed.'cause I was like, yeah, I don't want to know what the sex is. Yeah. But it's, it is something that I think has been through the course of this particular. Health concern that I have within my family has been something that has proven to be obviously very important. And I'm also that patient that wants to see everything and learn everything. So I ask a ton of questions and I've been very blessed with the people that I have been, seen by and have performed a lot of these because I ask, I want to see photos, I want to see images, I want to know what it is like, and what they see. And I'm fascinated by it. And I'll sometimes look at that ultrasound screen and go, how do you see that? I don't see it. You are obviously trained to see it, but I could imagine working in the ER incredibly fast paced, obviously can be traumatic at times. Not only for the patient, but for family and for you. I'm assuming there's rotations of days on, days off. How do you find, I will also say to our listeners, like I said, you have an amazing wife, but you also have children. You also are very involved in the community. What's your downtime? How do you, how do you take care of Jailyn in her downtime? Or is there downtime? There's, you can always find downtime and it's it's about prioritizing. But I will say that my, my issue is that I truly enjoy medicine and all the things that I do. I don't usually do things if I don't want to, and I don't enjoy it. And I don't really I don't watch sports. I like shows. I watch tv. I like going to, live stuff, but I, my time off, like what relaxes me actually is working on presentations and reading articles. I actually like, thoroughly enjoy it. It's not my favorite thing, it's not the most important thing in my life naturally. But I enjoy it. So it's almost like as long as there's not a deadline that, like tomorrow I have to finish this presentation it's actually pretty enjoyable for me to do like my medicine and my education stuff. And my, I think I'm fortunate because my. My wife went to PA school at the same time that I went to medical school and our first two-ish years of being married, it was really just studying together. That's how we spent time together. And she's encouraged me through my kind of academic career and my publishing career and my education business that I have. And so she's we have figured it out well. She's on board with it, and my kids have always known that. So they're on board and you gotta make sure that you spend time with the kids, spend time with the family and, exercise occasionally go on trips occasionally. But if something falls off my priority list it's by design. And because I, I also want to be happy. I don't want to get to my, retirement age and then feel like I didn't do what I wanted to do. And yeah, it's important. Balance is super important. I'm working with a coach right now. And I, my homework tonight after I finish recording this podcast with you is I have to sit down and start writing about balance and about self-care and about taking the time for you. I have a very busy career also, especially it's seasonal, I would say typically the first half of the year and then a couple months around this time. And I'm nonstop and I love my work. I have loved it for 22 years, or 25 years I should say. And yet I still have to remember that it's important to take the time. I'll be 59 this month which is hard to believe. I don't know how that happened and where that came from, but I have to make sure that I make time for me because I'm very dedicated to what I do. I love what I do. I also like you. I love teaching and co and training new people and coaching new people. And so at this stage in my career, I'm looking at what's next, and teaching is going to become a big part of that. And coaching is going to become a big part because we do have a lot of knowledge and we have a lot of things that I think are very valuable to people in order to impart on them. And so it's taking those passions and taking that love and taking that energy and turning into something that you can help other people. So I, I applaud you for that. I think it's great. So you obviously have I'm going to backtrack for a quick second. How old are the kids? I have a 6-year-old and 9-year-old and a 12-year-old. Wow. Okay. Hands full. I, they're, I don't know. They're great kids. We're very lucky. A lot of it is my wife and I taking a lot of effort. And a lot of, dedication and a lot of focus on what ultimately is the most important thing. And having a paycheck is for sure important. Having a fulfilling job is for sure important. But my perspective on it is that the thing that is the foundation of all of it, of like my life is my relationship with my family. And so my relationship with my wife and my kids individually and also by extension is absolutely the most important thing. And it is the thing that I work the hardest at is making sure that we're good. Yeah. Because at both of us we both come from broken homes and not great examples of how to be a parent and how to be a spouse. And so it's something that we have actively worked on because we don't want that, we don't want that for us, and we don't want that for our kids. Yeah, it's important, right? You don't want to recreate that generational inheritance, right? You want to make sure that you can break that. How long have you guys been together and how did you meet? I feel like we just started dating but we started dating 20 years ago. So yeah, I was 20 when we started dating. I'm 40 now. And we realized that my wife, who's 38, has been with me longer than she hasn't been with me. And we've, we've gone through a lot of ups and downs. The the way that I. Present now is definitely not what she signed up for initially, but we have, we've really done a lot of work together and she's actually been one of my most fervent supporters and really the person that I lean on the most, naturally throughout my transition. And it is, I'm so fortunate because most in my experience at least, I don't know any actual statistics but I, most of us that transition later in life like I did most of us don't survive with intact families. Most of the time. It, it seems to not work out. So I'm fortunate and even more, I'm so focused on the relationship because we've gone through this difficult thing and it made us so much closer and it makes me want to focus on the relationship even more. I've had a lot of conversations with guests the past couple of months, especially the last couple of episodes. I just interviewed separately, a couple two individual podcasts, but seeing them independently was fascinating. Seeing them as a couple is even more extraordinary. And so they too obviously, have been through tremendous roadblocks and potholes as we all go through. And what I think is so powerful is that relationships take work even without circumstances. Relationships take work, it takes communication, it takes dedication, it takes commitment. It takes being open. And I have really been in this inquiry and. Taking in all that I can on relationships that have survived the test of time. Mine unfortunately didn't. There were circumstances in which my ex-husband decided and made decisions without me, and I had no say and no choice. And I think to this day, I wonder what it would've been like if we had been able to kinda navigate the difficult time and pushed through it, because I know that's something that I would've loved to have done and was willing to do. I've always also said, and I'm, it's become a constant mantra in my podcast. I think because of the theme of just being yourself and finding that authentic space is that who we are in the world are not our circumstances. You're right, our circumstances shape us. They don't define us. And so when you go through something, and I also want to preface and be very careful in saying that we never compare circumstances to each other, everyone's circumstances and the situations that they go through are independent on their own because each individual is themselves. And so that takes on a whole new dynamic in and of itself. So I'm really proud, and I use that word. Specifically that you and your wife have been able to navigate that space because many people will give up and especially on something major, if I can use that word as a transition, right? I think it's great and I think it's important to know that there is that possibility to create a really wonderful foundation and a very strong marriage and partnership, especially when you have kids. So congratulations on that. I think it's really wonderful. Thank you. What was the first thing that you saw, and what was the first thing you loved about her when you met her? So I was yeah, she's, she's you met her, she's great. Yeah. She's the best. So I guess the first actual memory that I have was I was the I was a junior in college and my friend asked me like, Hey, do you want to be a counselor at the freshman retreat? It's a a weekend camp. Before school starts for the incoming freshmen. And I was like, no. Like, why do I want to do that? That sounds like work. And he said, he goes, but there's going to be girls there. And I was like, oh, that's right. And so I signed up and all throughout the orientation, we were told specifically don't go to meet girls. Don't go to meet girls. And I was like, okay. But like I want to meet girls naturally and. I remember we had to all, it was a, it was like a camp, like a lodge And there were these tables that were set up in the cafeteria, almost like a park like picnic table that kind of a setup. And they had all of the counselors sit, like each in individual spots at a table before, before the campers came in, before the freshmen came in, so that there would be a counselor at every table. And I, so I got to see all of the freshmen come in because they all came in through a door. And I remember seeing her and being like, she's hot. And so I tried, it was just hard'cause everything was structured. It was really hard for me to organically meet her and talk to her. And I was like, all right I guess it'll happen during the school year. One of the last days we got split up into kind of club workshops. And the one that I went to was the drama workshop. And she just showed up without her. She, had been walking around with a bunch of friends the rest of the time and she showed up on her own by herself. And then there was a lot of, she came late and there was a lot of people, there's a lot of other things going on, and then she just was like, oh, I guess there's nothing here for me. And then she started walking away. She walks down the pathway, outta the little cabin where we were at for the drama workshop. And actually excused myself, I went and got her and brought her back. And that is actually the first time that I remember meeting her, although it turns out that we had actually met a couple of months before and I actually didn't remember. But I played it off. She was like, do you remember me? I was at this birthday party and I was like, oh yeah, I totally remember. I did not remember. So the first time we met was actually a couple of months before that, but the time I remember was she was just coming into college and I was junior. We went surfing for our first date and we've been together ever since. I love it. That's so cool. Thank you. What, thank you. What do you think she would say about the first time she met you? What do you think she would say? I'll tell you because we've talked about it. The birthday party that we went to was the person who now is my sister-in-law, which is amazing because my now she married my wife's brother. Okay. And I actually know, knew this person since I was like four years old.'cause we went to the same church. We went to the same school. And so she's one of my oldest friends. And so when we went on that first date, Shanna asked her. Hey what do you think of Jailyn? And my, my, my now sister-in-law said that, be careful because she's a bit of a flirt. And and so Shannon was a little discouraged, but then, after we went on our date and after everything I was like no I, this is a date. This is not me being nice, like wanting to include you as a freshman. I like you. And then a few months later we started dating officially dating. We'll say, I love that. Yeah, I love that. So she thought I was a flirt, all that to say, which I know why she thought that. Now it makes perfect sense why she thought I was a flirt now.'cause I didn't really think of myself as a flirt back then. But yeah, that was when we met. That's awesome. And how long did you date before you got married? I think it was four, four years? I think we, no, we were, we dated for two years and then got married and then it was I think four years later when we had our first kid, I think so six years before our first kid, and then two years, and then we got married, which I think is appropriate. Yeah, that's enough. It, no, it's great. It's great. Yeah. No, I think it's wonderful. I love it. I it's the one thing that I. I don't want to say I regret'cause I have no regrets. Truly. But I think it's the one thing that I miss was not having children because I thought that my marriage there would be an opportunity for kids. Unfortunately, my ex-husband did not want to have children, and that's probably something we should have discussed early on. Not later on, but it was at the time, not a deal breaker for me, but I am recently surrounded by kids and we just had a new baby in our family as well. And there's a part of me that's a little sad. And then I'll be in a restaurant with friends and I'll see kids really act up, but I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not so sad. I'm not a parent. I'll just support them and play with them and be a great gun call. Which makes more sense at this point. Yeah. But I am, I will say that it's the one thing that I think consistently about, because I. I think I would've been a really good dad and that would've been something that I really wanted. I can definitely see that. Definitely see that. Of course everyone says that. It's not the same. I know, but everyone says that I'm a dad already.'cause I have a very spoiled 13-year-old black lab who is more spoiled than any child I think would ever be. But that's okay. It's just she and I. Yeah. She's laying on the floor right now snoring, so no, she turns 13 on Saturday. Oh, happy birthday. I know she's going to be celebrated before I have to drop her off at the kennel to go travel. That's right as I do, she just got a cake. She'll just get a little doggy treat and then not really be happy and then not really know what's going on. So she just went to the vet to get a checkup and the vet said, I think you need to lay off the treats because she's gained a little weight. So she's gained seven pounds since the last time she was there. Oh my goodness. She's an old lady, so she gets in treats anyway, she treats I'm getting way off track. We love sweet treats though. Listen, I am a hundred percent on board with sweet treats in any capacity to any type of creature. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I figure, she's at that stage in her life where, a, an extra treat, an extra pound or two, she's super in good shape and super lean. She can have one and she's going to get a birthday cake. She can have it. She's going to get a cupcake on her birthday, whether people or not. Good. Yeah. Good. It's also'cause I feel guilty dropping her off at the kennel, but that's a whole other podcast. Yeah. Fair. How, if you don't mind, I'm just curious. Did your being part of the L-G-B-T-Q community during med school, did it come into play? Were there issues? Did it come up? I'm just curious how that plays into your journey to finding yourself and to being this confident and being so secure. So I wasn't on the outside part of the queer community until five, four or five years ago. Oh, okay. I transitioned quite late. I transitioned, I started transitioning in my mid thirties. Okay. And so at the time I wasn't in the community. Got it. And I was raised in a I mentioned my dad was an immigrant. My military, extremely conservative Christian. When I was in college, my dad threatened to take my car away because I went to the beach on Sabbath, which was against the rules. And I was in college. I was essentially a grown up. And so I am, it's my dad died. But he he had actually like instilled in me these tried to instill in me these values that. Always felt wrong and foreign, but I, I wanted my dad's love. Sure. And so I tried really hard. I feel like I be, was a pretty good actor. I was able to fake it and trick a lot of people and I was able to be stubborn about no I know that this doesn't feel right. I know that this isn't me, but everybody must feel this way. So I can work through it. And so that was basically like my entire in childhood college. Med school. And then starting in probably in college is when I, the, it started to affect me who I was on the inside. And that's when I started with things. But I don't know. Everybody's got their own experience. Yeah. I had a, so much, shame and hatred towards that part of me. And some of it was, a lot of it was my upbringing. And it's no, I think everybody tries their best. And I don't mean to say that anybody is a bad person or that, any of my family members are bad people. I love my family. But the message that I was taught was that, homosexuality is wrong and the worst thing that could happen to a man is to be considered a feminine. It'd be better to die than to be feminine. And that's, in the nineties, that was what the media representation was, especially for any man who presented in a feminine way. I didn't even know what trans people were until I was in med school. I hadn't even heard the word until I was in med school, and that was, early twenties. Yeah. I, and I, this has come up a couple times with previous guests, is that. This is really never to necessarily fault the parent because parents are not taught, they don't have a degree in child rearing, child raising. And being able to, they're not given the languaging. It's the one miss, I think, that we don't offer in our world is how do we deal and navigate having children that are special and unique? And I use those words specifically because I think everyone is special. They are beautiful. Yeah. And unique. And every child has its own gift. And but we also don't teach our parents how to navigate that. So I say that to not. Place felt either. When I came out to my mom, I was late. It was 24, which for me was late. I've known since I was about seven, eight. I was terrified. The shame and the guilt, and we talked a lot about this on last week's podcast, was how do we, navigate and how do we unpack that shame and guilt as we move through our adult life? And wouldn't it be amazing if we had been taught those things early on? And then we find ourselves at this kind of juncture in our life to be able to say, this is just what's it's a part of me. It's a part of who I am. Does that make sense? So I think, like you said, your parents did the best they could. It's really about you and how you are feeling, and your process and your journey. And that's the part that I think is most misunderstood by the general public who don't know someone. Who is part of the L-G-B-T-Q-I community is that. What we go through to get to the place to where we can either come out or we can come out and then transition or come out and turn around and head right back in. It, whatever the case may be, that's up to us and that's up to our own path and our own journey. It would certainly help if the people around us and the world around us was just there, allowing that free expression and that creativity to come and that uniqueness and that specialness to come out. So I always say when people tell me that they're either coming out or transition was late in life, that's just what it was. Yeah. That's just what it was. And I think it's a gift because you now get to live in that space and in that body that feels like home and feels like you. And I don't know that anybody can express what that feels like unless they've been through coming out or transition. That once you have that feeling, I interviewed very early on in the podcast. And I think I may have shared this with you, it surprised me that his podcast is still the number one downloaded and listened to podcast of all the episodes of both seasons. And it was his, him talking about his transition from female to male. And that surprised me because I thought it would be all the kind of lovey warm, fuzzy, kumbaya moments of right. And this story has changed people. And I get more comments on that. So I was pleasantly surprised and happy that we were able to provide that story and to be able to provide that opportunity. He'd never told the story publicly before. Wow. And what I, what it did for me as a host and also a member of the community was I didn't know a lot of trans people before. I knew that it existed, but I didn't know a lot of trans people and it was my own. And I say this very confidently, it was my own fear, my own internalized homophobia, if you will about other members of the community. Because when you grow up in this community, even inside of the community, as a gay, cisgendered white male, that's predominantly what right? And when I would go out, or I would be out in the community, I'd be like where are the lesbians? Where are the trans people? Where are the people of color? Where is all of this diversity that we have in this diverse community? And it wasn't until moving to San Diego. And starting an organization that was dedicated to the community coming together and networking. And I remember saying to the person who approached me to found it that just launch it, it'll happen. And I said, no, if I don't have representation of the community, and that means everybody, every letter of the acronym and every color amazing you cans amazing. Because I didn't want it to just be another bunch of gay, white guys standing in a bar, eating cute cheese, talking about their businesses. I wanted it to be about this community. And through that, what was so beautiful was getting to meet an entire segment of the community, the trans community that I had never really sat and had a conversation with. And I'm embarrassed. I was embarrassed by that. I'm not anymore. But I was embarrassed by that because I just didn't know how to relate and communicate. And. I will say this, honestly, I love my trans friends and I love my trans family because what I love about them is they are really, truly the epitome of this. Just do you space of being because of what they've had to go through. I want it to be okay and acceptable and happy and celebrated for everyone else. So when you did decide to transition. Yeah. You mentioned your wife kids were also in play already, right? Yes, they were. Yeah. So did you personally, I've talked about the kids'cause I don't go there in our conversations. But for you, was that a difficult conversation to navigate for you and how that was going to go? Yeah. I, yes, I'm very happy to answer that question. I do want to, acknowledge what you've said, and I appreciate that that insight. But I will say that, man I love a, I love a cisgender gay man. There there's so fun. I like every aspect of our community, just like you were saying. And statistically speaking, as trans people we're the, out of the, we'll say the, I dunno, the top four we're the smallest subset. There's, we're about 1% of the population, whereas queer people in general are a little above 8%. And one of the things is that it just is, it's quite difficult especially later in life. It takes a lot. Although I will say that sometimes when I hear,'cause I got this early on, I got a lot of, from my cishet friends, you're so brave. From my perspective it really wasn't bravery because I, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have survived much longer if I hadn't been able to be the way that I was. I was pretty successful. By all outside metrics, very successful. I had a great job, great house. I had kids I had a wife. I had really been objective measures. Like I said, things were great, but I was just, I felt worse and worse. And I was angry and angrier. And I started finding, not finding joy in the things that I should be finding joy in. And it took a lot of work and it took a lot of therapy, which I mean, even if you feel like you're doing great, everybody should go to therapy. It's so nice. Oh yeah. It was tough because, I'd gone through this I call it testosterone poisoning. I've heard it say a testosterone driven puberty. And I looked very masculine. I'd also been working out since I was a teenager, and so I was quite fit. I'd off pod I don't, I don't enjoy seeing pictures of myself before because it's not me, but I'll show you. I was I worked out I a lot lots of weight lifting, lots of gym stuff because I wanted to be in that space.'cause I, that's what everybody told me I needed to be in. And all that being said, when I was, 19, I grew a full beard and I like didn't shave it until my transition. Wow. And so it was so much, it was so much effort. It, and this is my privilege. I have medical knowledge and I, I'm not a by no means a hospital administrator or an insurance company, but physicians make a decent amount of money. And I had access to those things on top of the, I guess drive to know that this is what I needed to do for myself and I needed to do this for my family because I was just, I was becoming miserable, over the course of years I was just becoming more and more insufferable for my family. And it took a lot of work. I've had I mean I need to calculate it one day, but I've had probably 40 to 60 laser sessions of my face. I've had, just like everybody, a bunch of Botox. I've also had a lot of filler. I've had my skull and jaw shaved, which is the most painful thing I've ever done, which I would do again in a heartbeat. I'd do it, I'd do it. If it was 20 times worse, I'd do it again. I've had three surgeries so far. I've learned how to, I've had to learn how to dress appropriately. I've learned how to dress for my body. I've learned mannerisms, I've learned voice, which is my voice right now. Once you go through a testosterone driven puberty that's where your voice is naturally we'll say. And so my voice right now is voice training. And I'm thinking right now, this is a conceited effort for me to speak this way. So it takes so much work, and part of me thinks about it and thinks, what, how much different would it be? And I hesitate to say better because it's just different. And I like you. I don't, I try not to live with regrets. But how different would it have been if I, when I was seven years old and I started feeling this way, when I started sneaking into my mom's closet and putting on her clothes and realizing how good it felt and how foreign boys' clothing and men's clothing fit on me. How nice would it have been to not have to go through all that? But I'm happy. I am thankful I am feel fulfilled. And also, I wouldn't have my kids. And my kids are, the tied for the most important thing in my life besides my wife. And so it's all it's like a, you never know. I think it's okay to consider it. But I think everything, I'm not I mentioned I grew up Seventh Day Adventist, but I'm not religious anymore, and I still think that, things happen for a reason. It might be that you learn from it and you adapt and that's the reason. Or it might be that was a life path. I don't know. But yeah. I do think about this a lot. I think about like transition and timing and all that stuff. Yeah. But I agree with you. I'm a firm believer in. That things happen for a reason. I also am the believer, and I'm very spiritual. I'm not very religious, but I believe a lot of higher power and all that in the universe in terms of creation. And that's just me. But I do believe that we, when we make a statement, even if it's to ourselves at whatever age, the universe basically aligns with that de declaration and that statement. And then what happens is life happens, and the journey that we go through is testing us to see who we're going to be in the face of all matters, right? At any and all matters. And how are we going to respond and how are we going to treat people? And most importantly, how are we going to treat ourselves? And I think that's something that's super important, is that we learn how to treat ourselves and it's in that process. I was terrified coming out. That's why I didn't come out till I was 24. And I even lied to my mom as I was coming out to make the lie bigger than being gay. I've shared this a couple times on the podcast, my goodness, because I wanted my mom. To not have the gay part be the hard part. It's, oh my gosh, had you not come out, you might not still be here. And, but it wasn't true. And I've told her this many times and apologized profusely. And I've told it in other podcasts that I've been a guest on that's how I had to navigate that process. And so now when I'm talking with people and communicating, it's like more about that being honest and being open to the journey and being open to the conversations because the universe has listened. If you believe in God, God has listened. And I believe, and it's hard to say this in this con, in this current environment and space that we're in, but I do believe that who we are as human beings is first and foremost the most important thing. At the end of the day, we're human beings. How we got to the place of being who we are as human beings is really no one's business but our own. Yet we've made it everyone's business and or I should say they've made it their business. And it's turned into something that has, in my opinion, created so much more stress and anxiety and pain and hurt because it's already difficult enough to come to terms with your own being, to then share it with people that you love and the world in hopes that they will accept you. And so a question that I have for you is, obviously the trans community is under great attack. It has been for a while now, if there is someone sitting at home that's listening, that has a trans child, or it's trans themselves, or thinking about transitioning, do you have some words of wisdom that you would tell them about finding the courage and finding the space to be themselves? Yeah, that's that's a great question. I think to a trans person or someone who's trying to come out, a trans person or a cis, a queer person. I think the main thing is up utmost is safety naturally. There's situations in which it's unsafe. That's the first thing. And then the second thing would be believing yourself, believing what your truth is and exploring that. So it's not like you just think something and then you do it. It's'cause that's not how I am. I will say externally that's how people perceived it because it was it to many people that I didn't share any of my thoughts and my feelings and the fact that I, what I called at the time, cross-dressed since I was a child. Most people didn't know that, but I had been thinking about it, I'd been working through it, I'd been going to therapy about it for years. And so it was a, it was, I wanted, I needed to make sure that it, that I wanted to do it and that it was the right thing for me. I considered all options. I considered just, being a cross dresser, which there's nothing wrong with that. That's great. I'm like thankful that there are people that cross dress. It's amazing. Yeah. I also considered gender fluidity or being non-binary and it didn't fit either. And so I figured out almost like in a scientific method that I needed to transition. I learned a lot. It's a lot of YouTubes and it's really trusting yourself now for family members. It's funny'cause when I I won't say specific family members, but there were specific family members who I was very close with, extremely close with. And they I sent a letter. I sent a letter to all my family, nice letter and a very scientific, I put. Data. Because even back then, five years ago, there was, people saying all these things that were just patently untrue about trans people. And so I, I actually gave links like to like. Government websites, I give links to PubMed index journals to show Hey, like these things that I know you have been hearing, they're not true. Like here is the data that shows that. And even for some of the stuff I said, here's what. This specific politician screams about on Fox News here is what they're referencing and here is the actual like document that doesn't say that. Actually, it doesn't say that. The big one was that most people who transition regret it which that when people say that they're, most of the time when you actually try to figure out what they're referencing a study that was done a long time ago. I'm very likely misquoting it, but it was done in like the sixties or seventies and they grouped any individual that was a observed as falling outside of what they thought was appropriate for boys and girls. They grouped all of them into trans. Yes. Together. So if somebody, if there was a young boy that liked playing with dolls, they were trans. If there was a girl that liked playing football, they were boys. And so that is where that data comes from, and all of the data subsequent to that. So that is a poorly run study. All the data subsequent to that shows that the regret rate for surgical transition is the lowest regret rate for almost anything that exists. So an average regret rate for any surgery is about 20%. That is the average regret rate for really for any surgery. Wow. Yeah. We're talking like knee replacements we're talking. Mastectomies for cancer, any surgery, it's about a 20% regret rate. Having children has about a 15% regret rate. Tattoos are like 15 to 20% regret rate. And guess what it is for trans surgeries? Gender affirming surgeries for trans people. Do you know? I wouldn't, I don't know the number. 1%. Okay, so Jailyn, let's stop there for a second.'cause we're getting close to time, but I want to make this point because I always love it when yeah when the golden ticket moment is in the last five minutes of the podcast. Yeah. So say that again. And just pick one. So the regret rate of, let's say any elective surgery is what percentage? It's about 20%. So 20% of the people who have an elected surgery regret having that surgery. 20%. Two zero. Correct. The percentage of one fifth. So the percentage of people who regret their transition surgery is 1%. It is the least regretful thing, is ha is transitioning surgically Correct. And here's where the rubber meets the road for me and where I get most triggered is I want to know who they are. Who's the they that created this narrative? I want to know who they are because they need to get their facts straight and they need to do a little bit of reading and a little bit of education. And I also say this, they need to sit down with a trans person and have a conversation. It is the one thing, and I get a little bit soapboxy about this and I apologize. No, please do. But I'll give you, I'll give you my soapbox. Yeah. It's the one thing about our community it's L-G-B-T-Q History month, October. So it's the first day. And I thought about this driving home from my doctor's appointment this morning, and I thought, this is a great opportunity to teach some history. Let's have some history lessons, let's have some conversations. They're all too busy out there doing what they're doing. But let's have some conversations. Because for me personally, as a member of the community, like I said, it wasn't until I sat down with Archer and had a conversation with him that I came out the conversation on the other side, learning something, number one. But having the utmost respect and the admiration and the awe of somebody who is 1% of the community and is just wanting to live their lives, that's and just be themselves. That's it. It is no more than that. And we've c not we, they the theys have created this narrative around, and I'm not going to repeat it'cause it doesn't deserve repeating. But calling us particular. Names is all about a lack of education and a lack of experience, and a lack of exposure to the community. And I believe that across the entire L-G-B-T-Q spectrum it happens sometimes within our own community as well. I've interviewed a couple people who have talked about internalized homophobia within the community. That's bad enough that we have to navigate that, or tough enough, I shouldn't say bad, but tough enough. And I will correct something that I said earlier. I am all in love with my cisgendered white men. Don't get me wrong. I was just, oh, no I didn't mean to imply that. Yeah no. Okay, good. I was just making an analogy that it's typically, yeah, I got it growing up where I've lived, in California, it's typically that, but we have to come to a point where we stop or they, I have to start saying we, there has to be a point which, oh, you mean we as a society, right? We as a society. Like a society as a whole, yeah. As a society as a whole. I just want to make sure that's clear. Get to a place where. We are setting assumptions and we are setting our ignorance aside and that we learn a little bit because we are not going to get anywhere. We had to do it with every marginalized group. We've had to do that, and where I feel the most empowered now in this current climate that we're in is exposing stories like this and saying, maybe this will help if this helps one person. If this conversation we're having today helps one person shift their perception about the LGBTQ plus community, the trans community, all of those assumptions that they have, you and I have done our job. Agreed, because that's going to trickle out in the world. And so when the second season came along in January, I'll be honest, I had a conversation like, I can't do this anymore. I don't think anyone's going to listen. It was so chaotic and so crazy. And my mentor, who's also a podcaster different type of podcast said, if you don't, you're ripping people off. And what if that one person who needs to hear this story doesn't hear it? True? So I'm telling our listeners as we begin to wrap up this conversation,'cause I could talk to you for days, is this, if you know someone who is struggling or has assumptions or has conversations that exist about something that they are uncomfortable about or don't know about, I encourage you to. Get out and find the resources. There are resources out there that can help you understand differences, the community better. And I encourage people to go out and find that because it isn't until you really, truly and honestly can say that you've heard us out, that you can ever begin to respect us. And then I will say one last thing and then I have one last question. I truly believe that the lack of respect that we get as a community, all of us, is because the people who are giving us that disrespect have no respect for themselves. Oh, absolutely. It's in that vicious cycle that we are collateral damage. However, we are here to shift that narrative and to shift that conversation because it's dangerous. It's dangerous. And there are kids out there. There are young people out there who are sitting, wanting to come out, questioning their sexuality, questioning their path and their journey. And they're terrified. And we as a community, through these podcasts and through what you do out in the community with you and your wife and the kids, is only going to change that. So I will end by saying this before I ask my last, or my last two questions quickly to you is thank you for being who you are in the world, Jailyn, and thank you for being who you are in the community. It's going to make me cry because ah, because the world's a better place with people like you in it because you are just out there being you. You are smart, you are talented, you are making a difference in the world, and you are out raising kids and being a wife and I love that. So I'm super blessed to have you on the podcast. You are Welcome back anytime. Thank you. Anytime. Oh my goodness. Thank you. There's so much to talk about.'cause there were some articles I was reading. I'm like, oh, I want to know more about that. But that's a whole other podcast. So two final questions before we wrap up. I know you've got kiddos to get to. What's next for Dr. Avila? Yeah, keep doing what I'm doing. I, ultrasound is my main thing, emergency medicine, but I've definitely been shifting into more advocacy work. I'm happy to speak with groups of people. I'm happy to be as open as I'm comfortable being about my journey because as you said it's helpful for people to understand that. And really just quickly, all it takes is a quick Google. If you just Google what is the regret rate for transgender surgeries, the meta-analysis and systematic review that's published in scientific papers. There's a few of these articles are easily discoverable. So that the, what's frustrating to me is that the data that utterly disproves a lot of this discourse is so easily accessible, but instead of trying to ask the questions, they're saying, Hey, why am I being manipulated to hate a group of people? It's accepted in this normal where just even if you just Googled it, it'd be great to talk to a trans person and, I like talking. Just Google it, like not Facebook groups. Not fox News. Not people who have a proven track record of lying and being unapologetic about gross misrepresentation and lying. Maybe look up independent sources. The data is all there. And I will say most I'll speak for myself. I don't actually care. What your kid is, I don't care what you are, I don't care what any part of you, I want everybody to be able to do what they want to do. And I would fight to allow other people to be heterosexual. I would fight to allow other people the right to go to church on Sunday or on Saturday. I would fight for that. Because that's them, and that's great for them. And that is their life. And that's really all I want. I am, I get frustrated sometimes that I have to put myself out there, that I have to tell people about my family and expose myself eventually to danger. But someday I truly believe that it won't be necessary and I can just blend in with society, which is ultimately what my personal goal is. I, my most important identity is that of a woman. And I'd be so happy to live my life just as a woman without having to do this. Although I will say it's great talking to you and I love to have met you, and I'm thankful to have this friend here close to where I live. Yeah. I'll tell you, and I'll be honest as as we close that loop, when I first met you and I first saw you and your wife, I did not for a second question, a transition, I and it's because of how I see our community. I see who the person is as a human first and know that there are so many stories and so many opportunities. But as I started to uncover and learn about you and hear about you from our mutual friends is when I knew that there was a story that needed to be shared. And I am honored that you came on and shared that today because your. Representation as a human being is what captures me most because of who you are in the world, and so I appreciate that. I am going to put a link up to your website, but also if there's any articles that you reference that you think are good send, we can put the link links. I send them your way as well. Send them my way because I can tell you're a data person. All right, so my last question for you is this. If you could go back to your childhood, what would you tell your young self about who you are today and your life? I would tell her you are okay and things will be okay. You can handle this. I love it. Short, succinct, and direct. You can handle it How I roll. Yeah, you can handle it. You can handle it. I will say, as I say, goodbye. It is, I love that question. Sometimes we cry. Sometimes we laugh. Sometimes it's. Super emotional, but everybody says in some combination of the phrase, those same words, it's going to be okay. Yeah. And what I hope people take from our conversation today is that no matter where you are in your journey, and no matter how far along you are into just being your true, authentic self, you just gotta know that it's going to be okay. I love that. I love that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your time today, Dr. Avila. I am proud to be your friend. I can't wait to see you and my best to you and thanks for being here on the show today. Thank you so much. We'll talk soon. Alright, everyone, thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you can easily share the podcast and episode. Directly with your friends and if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at just Do you pod as you go out into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.