S3E02 with David Morgenstern - When Parenting Isn't One Size Fits All

When David Morgenstern and his husband became dads, they quickly realized that while parenting advice is everywhere, community for gay dads is not. The joy of fatherhood was real — but so were the assumptions, the erasure, and the systems still built around the idea that every family has a “mom and dad.” From public spaces to school forms to everyday interactions, their family often felt unseen.

Rather than accepting that gap, David decided to build what he and his husband couldn’t find. That vision became Gaddies — the first brand created specifically for gay dads, rooted in pride, visibility, and connection. What started as fun, their apparel has now evolved into something much bigger: a platform for storytelling, community-building, and celebrating the lived experiences of gay fathers.

In this episode, David shares what it’s really like to navigate parenthood as a gay dad — the moments no one prepares you for, the questions that come from strangers, and the importance of focusing on family, not formation. As he puts it, maybe 90% of parenting is the same — but it’s the remaining 10% that no one is talking about, and that’s where representation and community matter most.

We also talk about building gay dad culture in real time, honoring those who fought for the right to love and parent openly, and why visibility isn’t just affirming — it’s necessary. Whether you’re a gay dad, thinking about parenthood, or simply interested in how community gets built when it doesn’t already exist, this conversation is about belonging, pride, and parenting on your own terms.

Welcome to the conversation! 

To learn more about Gaddies, visit https://heygaddies.com  

Just Do You listeners get 20% off with code GAY20 — that’s G-A-Y 20 — at heygaddies.com

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:06

Hello everyone, and welcome to season three of the Just Do You podcast. I'm Eric, Nicoll, your host, and I'm so glad you decided to join us today. Whether this is your very first time joining in on the conversation or you've been listening along since the beginning, thank you for being here. This podcast exists because of you. Your stories, your courage and your willingness to keep choosing yourself even when it's not easy. The Just Do You Podcast is a safe space for authentic, unscripted conversations that connect us, inspire us, and remind us of who we are at our core. Together we're going to explore confidence, voice, truth, and what it means to step fully into what I call the just do you sweet spot, that place where you are living honestly, intentionally and unapologetically. This new season is about growth, reflection. Possibility in community. I'll be sitting down with friends, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers who are willing to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and everything in between. We'll laugh. We may shed a few tears, but in the end, we're going to continue to remind one another that none of us is walking this path alone. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to season three of the Just Do You Podcast. All right, everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I am really excited to sit down and have a conversation with my guest today. But before I introduce him, I'm going to give you a little bit of a bio As I find many of my guests on this podcast, I search through Instagram to look for inspirational stories with regards to our L-G-B-T-Q community. And one morning it was super early, I was just starting my coffee and I came across. This guest and his amazing family and company, and I thought, I've gotta get this guy on, so I'm going to introduce you real quick. So nobody really understands the power of community, quite like our L-G-B-T-Q community. We start feeling like outsiders to hopefully finding people who love us without reservation or judgments. And we know both the pain of being tribalists and also true belonging. And so my guest today knows that journey really intimately. When he and his husband became dads, the desire for deeper connection and celebration in parenthood which is really special for our L-G-B-T-Q community became impossible to ignore. He was searching for a space where families like his could feel seen and supported and full of pride, and that search led him to create Gaddies. And we're going to talk about that during this episode today. It's the first brand that's created specifically for dads. Gaddies exists to elevate their stories and spark meaningful connection and to build that community that's so important. Whether you've been a dad for decades or you're just beginning to imagine what it would be like to be a dad, which I often do. Gaddies is about parenting with pride and showing up as wholly as you are. I'm really excited to introduce you to him today and to hear his story. Everyone, please welcome David Morgan Stern. Hi David. Hello. I need to start every morning. With that being played out loud, my therapist would be so proud of me. It's funny, you're not the only person who says that, and I've, yeah. Over the past two seasons, I've always said, God, if we could wake up into an introduction every day as to who we are in the world, it would change the day.'Cause we wake up into our circumstances most of the time. Yeah. I was like, wow, that person sounds awesome. I would, yes. Great. Thank you, Eric, for having me, and I'm really excited to be here. Of course. Of course. It's really great David, because I, like I said I'm turning 60 next year. Yeah. I have never had the blessings of having my own children. I often wanted my own children and thought that it would be amazing. It just didn't seem to be in the cards. And that's okay. I was teasing with a friend of mine the other day. She has three, she was a guest on the podcast last week. And I was like, sometimes, you want children, but then you go out to a restaurant or you go out somewhere and certain families that are, children, yeah, a little unruly. And I'm kinda like, oh, I'm glad they get to go home with those parents. So anyway, I give you great kudos. And thanks for being on today. I think today's conversation is exactly what we need to hear. We're in a world of heaviness right now. It's a little chaotic and a little crazy. And the one thing that I try to do with this podcast is to bring community and to share stories of people in our community, of their journey to finding their truth and to living that truth. And I think in order to be a parent and to be a partner, you have to stand in that space of who you are and how you show up. So we're going to jump back a little bit with today's conversation.'cause I like to take my guests back to the beginning and find out a little bit about the young David. What was he like? Where'd he grow up? Were there brothers and sisters? What was the family dynamic like? And just give us a little glimpse into that. David, before we jump into Gaddies. Yeah I think young David was optimistic and young. David was always interested in finding commonality across different people. He also loved talking to third person. So this is a really good outlet. But I was born and raised in, in Cleveland, Ohio with one older sister and two loving parents. So I think as we talk about my path to here, I'm very blessed to have grown up in a household where, my 100 1-year-old grandfather is still my best friend and was the best man at our wedding. And so there was only love and support that was shown. I think my introductions through community came through a lot of sport, and so I, I played. Teams and sports where I looked like everyone else. And then I played teams in sports where I looked like no one else. And used that as an avenue to say, okay, there are ways to define places for all of us to come together. And that really launched me into what I chose to do as I got a little bit older. So I've been fortunate and blessed to live in a couple different countries, a couple different states, and always try to put myself in situations where I am the outlier to try and find and learn what other people are doing so that we could connect the dots and come together. Yeah, it's I know Cleveland, not really well, but my first boyfriend ever was from Rocky River, Ohio, so very well there you go to Cleveland. So a very special place. I'll never forget my first winter there I was, as we were visiting for the holidays, I'm like, what's all this white stuff? It's, yeah, exactly. Yeah. And why is it so cold? But it's a beautiful part of the country and I can see that it's very, you mentioned loving parents and your sister and that kind of support. And as we know, that's not always the case. Many of our brothers and sisters don't have that support. Or come up against a great deal of. Pushback as to being who they are. So it must have made the process for you to explore yourself and to develop naturally. How was it at school though? Was it pretty easy? Was it easy to find friends? Was there, did you know back then that there might have been something a little bit Yeah. Different for you? Yeah. I think sitting here now at 39 and having been out for almost 20 years, I definitely block out some of the, the challenges and some of the structure. But we were cleaning my parents' house recently, and I found a journal from when I was around, I think 13 or 14 or 15, and I had only written one thing over and over, and it just said, I hope I'm not, I hope I'm not, I hope I'm not. So that was a really powerful moment for me of finding that, of being like, oh, wow. A, this probably started a lot earlier than I thought it did. And b there were. Even if you grow up in the most loving and supportive family the macro environment has such an impact on how do you view yourself? How do you view who you are, how do you view how society will view you? So there was definitely the struggle there for for longer than I remembered. Yeah. I don't think it really matters where you grow up. Yeah. And in what city? In what state, in what country? Yeah. I think there is just that space of. Hoping and wishing and wondering and confusion and shame and all of those things. Yeah. And I've said this many times on the podcast that, parents aren't necessarily, equipped might not be the right word, but educated in how to navigate having a child that is gay. We, there is no, here are the telltale signs to look for. Here are the conversations to have, here's the way to, to create, comfort and ease and confidence and posture in that child who may be, experiencing this as part of the journey. I remember for me. I knew very early on that I was gay. I grew up in Southern California, so you know, it was still terrifying. I still got teased. I still got bullied. I still remember hiding out in the office of one of the administrators, during lunch.'cause I was afraid to be out and to be outed. Yeah, not really having that language. And my mom didn't know my mom was a teacher and actually did the best that she could. So I look at it now, obviously quite different. I'm a little bit older than you, but quite different when I was growing up and came out than it is today. And even when you came out it's just different now. Today comes with a whole separate, conversation, which is a whole other podcast, which we're not going to get into today. But, when did you first start realizing, or was that when you started having that conversation that you hope you're not, you hope you're not, what age was that? Yeah. Probably mid teens and, okay. I always had girlfriends. I always was attracted to my girlfriend, so there was never a forced. For me, there wasn't a force trying to fit into this, but I remember, I think our high school had about two out two kids who were queer and out and everyone knew who they were. They did not always have the easiest time. And so I definitely do remember being like, yeah, I'm not going to do that because that seems like a really hard choice. And then I went to college also to a school that didn't have a ton of out kids, but then when I was around 19 or 20, those sort of feelings and realization of, oh, it's not just the physical. I think I actually would like rather go cuddle with a man, right? And so had a summer internship living in Washington DC and I actually chose that purposely.'cause I didn't know anyone else in dc no one knew me. So I was able to have this sort of summer when I had just turned 21 of. Trying it out, right? And seeing did this feel like it was for me? Did I feel more natural? And the answers to that were all yes. And so then that started really coming out to most people in my personal life around 21 or 22. And then was not out professionally for a couple of years until really I had met my now husband and got just tired of playing the pronoun game or the avoidance game, and decided to show up fully as ourselves as they say in my suit and tie. Yeah, I, it's so funny when you said that. I remember, and she knows this, so I'm not. Telling on myself. But I, through my high school experience, I knew I was very attracted to my best friend. I didn't understand that attraction, that feelings. It was just something that was there. But I dated a girl my senior year. I was in love with her dad, who was this amazingly handsome, fun swimmer. I'll leave it there. But, summers, and events at her house were always fraught with this confusion. Like, why am I attracted and care for my girlfriend? But there's these feelings for this guy. And funny story later on, he actually ends up coming out as does his ex-wife. And now they're all just happy and lovely and they all have partners and it's crazy. When you're going through it, it's not easy. Yeah. You're not, it's not easy. And I looked back at my high school experience, junior high school as well. I had a great. Group of friends and really a great tribe back then. Mostly in drama, music we had our own country club that was in the back of Sheila Lehman's house and we'd go play badminton and be silly. And so there was, without a spoken connection, there was this, connection to, even though we didn't talk about it openly this tribe and this community. Yeah, college was very different. College was super difficult'cause I was. So forced to come out at that point. Not by anyone but myself'cause I just couldn't take it anymore. I was dating the director of Greek and residential life at my college, and I was pretending to be the best friend and his girlfriend friend, that's a girl would come with us and she'd pretend to be the girl. And it was the most chaos I've ever been through. And so that forced me to really propel myself out. But I think it's interesting because we didn't I'm going to say we didn't have social media back then. We didn't have the exposure, we didn't have the TV shows necessarily. Yeah. A little different with you, but it was just one of those things where I just wondered, how did we navigate and manage all that we got here? Yeah. We got to the other side of it. So it's just difficult. It's difficult. Yeah. But I think also, like I'm right in that mini micro, micro generation that was just before the internet, right? And so we got the internet at the end of my high school career. And I think very similarly, right? You had Will and Grace and then that was about it. Yes. Yeah. But I think that connects into part of what I try to do with Gadi, which, echoing one of your comments earlier on being very clear that gay dads and queer dads have always existed, right? So you're. Your friend's dad was always themselves. They just weren't able to do it authentically. And that's what has changed now. Yes. Is that there are a large enough group of us that are able to do so authentically that something like GA's or the idea of GA's can exist. Not that we've never been here before. And I think that's a really important part to stand in and make clear as we talk about what this is in different generations and what that experience looks like. Because then you have young queer people now who say of course I'm going to be a parent. Like, why would I not be able to do that? And that jump from like the 60 and 70 and 50 year olds down to the 20 somethings and teenagers is a massive leap that's happened in such a short time. I wanna talk about that. We'll get there. So remind me. Okay. Because I wanna talk about what your experience of that was and how you see that having changed and what's going to change in the future. So let's backtrack just a little bit. College time you came out to school and then, yeah. What was that experience like for you? Was it the big sigh of relief? Was it terrifying? What was it? Yeah, I think a lot of cliches are true, and that one was certainly true. There were people that I was most afraid to tell who gave me the most wonderful reactions, no one in my life that I had known for a long time did I lose or did it change? Had a couple of situations at college and I was like, okay. I'm fine with this. But it definitely was a sense of relief. And then even still at my college, when I was, when I came out there. Maybe 10 out kids, right? And so you all tried dating one another, and then you realized that you didn't actually wanna date one another, you just wanted to have someone to connect with. And then I moved from there to New York City and it was oh wow. This is a thing and this is the much different. And I think I'll, I think I'll be just fine here. You'll be just fine. Yeah. Yeah. I, I think it's an important teachable moment. And I like this podcast to be educational as well as it's fun and enlightening and inspiring. But I like to be it to be educational.'cause a lot of people listen that are not necessarily part of the community. They might be allies. Or might be listening for the first time. We're all over the world. So what I think is really important is for people to understand as we talk about that coming out process and we share our stories, that it is a for many L-G-B-T-Q people, it's a terrifying moment. We don't know how people are going to react. We don't know if we're going to be accepted. We don't know if we're going to be ostracized or kicked out of our families or our home. We never know. And then on top of that comes how are we going to be treated by our. Broader community, our work environment, our communities that we live in, and the, the world in general. And it is a terrifying place for a lot of people. And I don't know that anyone can understand unless you've gone through something like that where you've held on a secret for so long, or you've pretended to be someone else. And what that does, as we talk about authenticity and we talk about being just you, it tears you up inside in a way. That is hard to repair. It takes time and it takes a lot of conversations and connection, and sometimes even therapy to really get to a place where you can unpack all that and then finally stand in that pride because you don't know. It's very fearful for so many people. And I worry about our kids today. And what we hear from various people of power that our community is under such attack of what that does to that process for them. Does this current generation fight against it and come out stronger or do they retreat? And so I think it's really important kind of what you're doing with your community and with your company and with your platform in creating that safe space because it shows other people around the world that are looking at social media that it's okay and that it's, yeah. That it's it's okay. I'm going to leave it there. Yeah. And it's such a dynamic process, right? You come out over and over again, and I know for myself, I have very vivid memories of different coming out experiences to different people, to some that went exactly how you would hope they would go, some that didn't, some that you got surprised and, coming out to friends, then coming out. In school, then coming out in work, then coming out to the waiter or waitress as they put something down. Like it's a never ending. And that's one of the things that actually, as we talk about being a gay parent, it is a whole new coming out process that happens all of the time. And so those of us that thought we were done with that, it's no, you have to decide every day. Am I correcting this form that says mom and dad, am I correcting the way the doctor's asking you, the pharmacist? So it's a very interesting experience to have to go through again after you thought, oh, I did that already, but now, no, all the time you have to make that choice. And it's, and all, it's all anchored in safety. Do I feel safe in this moment at the park when the person's asking me, where's the mom? How do I want to answer that question today? And again? Teachable moment. I think people need to really understand what that's like for the community of having to go through that. I will say this, I don't think we ever stop coming out, right? Because there are circumstances and moments that still happen today. I'm 59 years old where someone will say, oh, I've got this great girl that I want you to meet. Or, oh, I'd love to introduce you to someone and it, you know her name and I have to come out. I have to be able to say, I really appreciate that, but I happen to be gay. That's a coming out process and it's again, over and over again. And so I don't think we ever stop that necessarily. But I can imagine that process for gay parents is also difficult because you do come from a place of safety for your kids and for you as well. Yeah, you're right.'cause it's not just your safety now, it's your child's safety that's involved. So let's back up a little bit'cause I always have to get to this. Tell me about. Meeting your husband? How did that come about? We met on the internet and went on a date and we were both very much on paper, far away from who we had previously dated, but sometimes the hearts wants what it wants. We went on a couple dates, then he informed me that he didn't actually live in New York, he lived in Boston, so that was a wild card. And he was just going to be in Boston for another year. So we did a lot of back and forth on the bus. And then eventually he moved to New York City and we didn't move in together for a couple of years. I really wanted to live by myself for a bit and a, having that life moment. And then 15 years ago. Wow. Yeah. What did you do? What did you do while you were in New York? So you finished college and then what did you Yes. What did you do? I was working in financial services. Okay. So I was wearing a suit and tie and helping hedge funds make money, which was not exactly a life passion, but I graduated in the throes of the. Oh 8, 0 9, you took a job and you did what you could. During that time, I started having some health challenges and that was my first moment of thinking about, of just doing me right and saying, okay, nothing, nothing is really granted or nothing's really promised. So professionally, how do I think about centering some things that are a little bit more important to me? And then I ultimately decided actually to go back to grad school to get my business degree and use that as an opportunity to change. That's awesome. Yeah. Awesome. Where in the process did you meet your husband? Was that in college? Sorry, that was in New York. Yeah. So in New York? It was in New York a couple years out. Got it. Like I said, I wasn't out. It wasn't a particularly. Queer friendly environment that I was working in. Okay. Ask. So it always been in the not I was out to a couple people, like my work bestie and a couple of other folks, but to clients or senior management. And by that point I'd been elevated into a role where I was working directly with our CEO and working directly with the board of directors. And I just got tired, I just got tired. And I think it also helped that I knew that I was going to leave in a year or two to go back to grad school and just started talking about Rafi and externally. No one gave, can I, am I allowed to swear on this? Of course, great. Externally, no one gave a shit. And so I was like, great, I'm just going to roll with this. But then that helped me step into grad school and saying oh, I, it's actually really important for me that I'm looking at companies that are visibly supportive of our community and that I understand that I can show off be myself one day, be a father with the family that I wanna be. And so is it a new lens of evaluating who and how I wanna spend my time. And David, you're just, you're throwing some really amazing moments in this conversation because again, another teachable moment is not understanding what it's really like to go to work every single solitary day. Yeah. Not being able to be yourself. Yeah. I want people to really, who don't. Necessarily have that battle. To sit with that for a second, you have to go to work every single day of your life for as long as we spend at work. And I'm assuming in financial services, you worked long, long hours. So a majority of your day, you're having to be someone that you're not only to go home, to be able to be that person. If you have to do that day in and day out and day in and day out, month after month, year after year until it finally becomes enough is enough that plays on your mental health that not have an effect. And so the community goes through tremendous shifts in paradigms and conversations and in growth and development. I'm so happy that you found that spot that you could just say, enough is enough. I've got to make that choice. Yeah. And I do think, sorry, just to interrupt, yeah. This is where individual managers make such a big difference because I knew the managers that I had would not. Ping me or impact me from it. Like the broader company was like different. So as you're talking about Mike, again, really small moments, that person that's responsible for your career directly is going to have such an impact. And the way that they talk about things, the way that they present different issues, different topics, that all goes directly towards, okay, do I feel safe to do this?'cause I'm going to be a much better employee when I can show up and just be myself. Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Because you show up authentically. Yeah. And there's nowhere better to be and better to act and to behave than authentically. What was the and I think you mentioned his first name. I won't, what's your husband's first name? Rafi Short for Rafael. Okay. So Rafael, what was the first thing that you noticed about Rafael? What a great question. He thought I was funny. Always helps. And he has a very sharp wit as well. So I thought that he was, I thought that he was funny. And he's very, he was a teacher at the time and just has a very, he's a very passionate person about helping and supporting the communities that he believes in. And I thought that was really admirable. That's awesome. And that gives me hope that there are people out on the internet that are definitely husband material.'cause I am back in the market, so it's, although it's a lot more difficult these days, it's interesting again, whole other episode. Yeah. What would you say is the first thing that he noticed about you? Oh, that I'm hot and humble. Hot and humble. You need to put that on a T-shirt. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. He's def I won't say, yeah. I think he'll say hot, humble and humor. I think humor. I think we've always made one another laugh and I've always made myself laugh. And so if I can make someone else make someone else to do it that's good too. Yeah. You have an amazing energy, so I could imagine that attracts so yeah, someone with that level of energy and that kind of space of energy cannot be with someone who doesn't match up or at least Yeah. Respects it and understands it. So how long after you chew, were living in the same city obviously you started or you were continuing to date. Sorry. How long after that did you guys talk about marriage? I think we talked about marriage and kids on date, two or three. So like very early on.'cause it was something that we both knew we wanted to do at some point and wanted to get on the same page. I was very clear that he was going to have to propose to me. So it took, and I told him that he had to propose to me before I left work for grad school because I was like, I've sat here for six years and watched all these people get engaged and had to deal with everyone else celebrating it. And I need that moment. I want that moment. So that's what we did. Wasn't that a great moment? I loved the engagement part. Yeah. I love the marriage too, but I love the engagement part. Yeah. It was just so cool. And so what year did you get married? 2016. Okay. Marriage Act had passed by then, right? Yeah. Because we got married. Yes. And we actually ended up getting married on the one year anniversary, which was not, that's right. We'd picked the date two years ago. But then everyone at the wedding was like, oh, this is so special and so queer that, and we were like, that was not, we didn't do that on purpose and not planned just how it was. Same. We got married two weeks before it became. And we ended up going to Boston to get married. It switched Massachusetts because it wasn't leaving here in ca in California. Yeah. So we were in New York celebrating a friend's wedding at the Plaza. Very fancy over the top 400 person wedding, which we used as our backdrop. Wow. And then we ended up getting married the following week in Ipswich, Massachusetts, which was amazing and wonderful. Came home two weeks later, DOMA Pass. Yeah, it's interesting that around that time that we, we all celebrated that moment of equality and were able to, yeah. And I don't know about you, but it sounds like you weren't, we were the first gay wedding that we had ever attended, so that was also interesting. I think for all of our guests, it was their first, and it was also the people who were getting married first. So this is a little side diversion, but again, back in social media land there is this page of content that is all L-G-B-T-Q weddings, right? I'm a crybaby. I cry at Hallmark commercials. I'm super emotional. It's just the way I've always been. I will sit and watch these and, they do the first look right? The first look moment which we did not do. But look at this first look moment and I'm just, I sob for an hour, like flipping through all these amazing videos and then I come into this space, I'm like, how amazing is it Right? That we had. That opportunity. I remember when it first was legal, years and years ago, friends of mine I don't know that they would call themselves activists, but were very passionate about gay rights. And when it, for that brief moment when it was legal, before jumo passed, they got married in every city in the United States, that it was actually legal. I love that. I looked at him at the first point and I was like, you're nuts like that. That's just crazy. I hope that they ask for wedding presents for every wedding that they I was going to say, this is why I like you. Yeah. I said the same thing. I'm like, oh, that's how you furnish that, four bedroom house in Las Vegas. Yeah, exactly. But what was so great about it though was it was a statement, right? It was a statement. And now, because it is something that, or I should say back then a couple years ago, it was something that was so celebrated and so wonderful which I stand firm in my. Belief that's something that they will never take from us. We're going to fight tooth and nail so that never happens. But someone asked me the other day having gone through, the engagement and the wedding and then a very unexpected divorce, would you get married again? And I said, absolutely. I believe in that commitment. I believe in that ceremony now, as an event producer, I will tell you, I've produced a lot of weddings in my day. And so when it came time for my wedding, everyone was eagerly anticipating this thing. And I think I shocked everybody by getting married without a thing, right? Yeah. And because I just you gotta spice it up and keep him on their toes. But I just didn't want it to be about the decor and the food and all that. I wanted it to be about this relationship and this man that we, that I found and how much I loved him. So it was pretty cool. It was great experience to this day. It's one, one of the highlights and the happiest days of my life. Once you guys were married. Yep. And you're in that space. And you had already talked about obviously wanting to have children or were looking at that possibility of having children. How quickly did that happen for you? A couple of years. We were, we, because you had grad school, right? You had grad Yeah, we grad school and then we moved. And we both had sort of career moments that we wanted to hit before we were started the process and I think we both felt fortunate that we didn't need to start from a biological perspective. And we had a little bit of time and I was fortunate. I was able to work in Europe for a while with my company. And so that was our farewell swan song of, okay, we're going to go live in Europe and be kid less and enjoy all that and then come back and start the process. And that's what we did. So we were together 11 years before we had a child. Yeah. Where in Europe did you work? Amsterdam? Okay, so you went to a pretty L-G-B-T-Q friendly place. Yes. There are a lot of days when I look back at photos of childless life living. And it was funny, the the relocation expert when they were like, where do you wanna live? I was like, put me next to the gay leather bars. And that's what they did. And I was like, this is honestly peak living. I don't know why I am moving away from this, but it's so funny. I have friends who just moved to Spain and Yeah. They live in Torino and it's the gayest town in Spain. Yeah, I think. And they live above a gay bar. And this is retired couple and it's so not my cup of tea, but so hilarious that they're sending me pictures of pride and they've only been there for a couple months and I think they already have 40 friends, which is the thing that I think is really cool about living in that gay friendly community is you have instant community. Instant, instant connection. But I love that. Put me next to a leather bar. That's hilarious. That's hilarious. So through that process you're obviously still working. You're down this journey, you're down this path. You've got your husband, he's working. You guys are living in Europe. What happens next? How does that transition then to the kids and this Gaddies, which I can't wait to talk about I think we came back and I was ready to hand off the baton a little bit in terms of the corporate climb and the professional. I, the reality is when you're two men, you're not raised to be a primary caregiver. So we had conversations around which one of us wants to step more into that role, and which one of us is going to, hit. He had a different take on the career and that was me. And then at a certain point, GA's came about because I was two things. One, I was just over straight people and I could not work with them or focus on them anymore. I was like, I can't do this. This is exhausting. And then secondly, really the lived experience of trying to find community, whether that was at the park, at the zoo, on a plane at school, and thinking there's gotta be a new and a different way to help find one another and celebrate one another. And that's what led me to think about, I wanna do something focused on gay dads. So I knew whatever I did was going to focus on gay dads. And then I had this background working in apparel and operations and strategy and marketing and just had the light bulb moment of what if we started a brand focused on gay dads and went from there. So you had previous experience in retail and all of that? Yes. That helps. I am learning a lot now. But I, from a, from like a management macro level, I understood the whole process.'cause I had worked in supply chain, I had worked in apparel, I'd worked in the marketplace, so I knew how everything needed to go. And then this last year or so since I started, it has been about actually involving myself in the acts themselves and learning a lot and learning what, used to take me eight hours, a couple months ago. Now it takes me an hour and learning new things every day that still take me eight hours. That hopefully will take me a little bit less time. Yeah. Did Gaddies come first or did baby come first? Baby came first. So I started thinking about the idea when he was around three. Okay. So I started thinking about the idea a little bit over a year ago. Okay. And then actually started it in January of 2025. Okay. Yeah. So this is a recent development, which I love. Yes. Never planned to be an entrepreneur. Never planned to do any of the things I'm doing yet today. But, I think once I, once you're throwing names at the wall and then coming up with the word gadi and then coming up with gats you sense that it was different. Because I think two things, one, most things about queer parenting focus on the process or the formation to become the family. And I very much wanted to not do that. I wanted to just focus on the act of parenting. And then two, it created this platform where I have now the opportunity to focus and spotlight all these different community members in a way that both builds them and also builds the brand. And so we said that this is successful if it's successful in making other people feel seen and included and bringing bringing more visibility and representation. Yeah. I'm going to ask a couple questions that may seem obvious to you, but not sure, maybe obvious to the listener. Sure. And so I have a couple thoughts and questions. Is it. I don't know if I'm going to say this the correct way, but is it perceived easier for a lesbian couple to parent than it is for a gay male couple to be parent or to parent? I would say science is science and so there are certain elements that cost a lot of money that are more intense for a male couple or a male individual by themselves to do, but Everybody is, everybody's different. I actually always say that we have it easier because society is so hard on women and society is so hard on female caregivers that like men, we get golf claps anytime we do anything productive. Like even if you're just out with your child, people are like, look at you. Calling it parenting and not babysitting. Whereas I think women get treated terribly. So like when they're, when we have a crying child and we're trying to console them, we don't get judgment looks. Whereas I don't think that's different for female identifying people. Really? That's interesting. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That would've never thought. Yeah. I think with the women, they're like you're supposed to know how to do this. Why is your child crying? But with men, they're like, it's so great that you're really giving this an effort and you're not handing the child off to someone else. Confusing and not exactly fair. But I hear the point. Yeah. But real but real I would've never thought about it that way. It's, fascinating. And you may or may not know this answer to this question, but has the, reality of gay parenting increased significantly over the past couple of years. Has it stayed pretty status quo? What's been the environment and experience within that, whether you're a single gay dad or a couple? Yeah, difficult to answer that. I think what I will say is, the phrase, everyone has a gay cousin, this sort of idea that everyone does. I think that is evolving. And back to our earlier comment of gay dads, queer dads have always existed, but what's happening now is two things. One, more male couples or more individuals are having kids from the start. And then secondly, I think we're seeing men who had kids with women come out earlier. So I think previously men that had kids with women, they would come out when the kid was. Later in high school or in college and at that next stage. But now you have this group and community of men that are coming out when their kids are very young, so they are still active and involved in their life. So they're 33, 35, 40 as opposed to 55, 60 or 65. And the majority of men in this country who identify identifies gay dads did have ki did have children with women. So I think for me, it's going to be very interesting over the next 10, 20 years as that there will be more queer, gay dads does that same percentage shift, right? And do you see fewer people having children with women first or does that stay the same and just the numbers get larger? Yeah. And as sometimes I despise as a hard word, but I despise social media and the internet. I think that's a great word. Yeah. I do get such joy out of seeing and I follow several, gay parents of all kids of all different sizes and, sizes, sorry. Of ages, not sizes. Yeah. Yeah. Ages. And I think that's something that's been really amazing and wonderful as well is there's an opportunity for you all to connect. Whereas before, as, as much as we bash the internet, and it is a negative experience for many of us, and if not all of us, but there is an opportunity to bring connection. If we didn't have social media during the pandemic, I don't know what I would've done right. Because that was my outlet that actually gave me a sense of connection. Because I had just divorced, moved to a new town, and a month later we're in shutdown. And so social media not only gave me a, an outlet and a way to connect to people and to stay connected, it also gave me a year and a half of research for the podcast. And so when I was finally. Pushed into launching,'cause I procrastinated for a while to get this launched. It offered an opportunity to really connect with some great people and introduce people to their stories, which is so important. Yeah. You said it in, in your website. I paraphrased it. The introduction community is everything. And it doesn't mean that you have to live next door to each other. It means you can be all the way around the world and still connect with this Gaddies, community that is designed to create that space of safety and that space of connection. What was the initial thought? Where did you think it was going to go? Obviously I'll tell you, once you become an entrepreneur though, you'll never go back. I have struggled through many times of wanting to go work for a corporation because being an entrepreneur can be tough. I've owned my own company for 24 years now, but I'll, congrats to you because, oh my gosh. It's not easy, but Nope. What's great about it is though, is it does give you total side note. It does give you such a great sense of ownership into how you are changing the world. And I don't mean that to be Yeah. Or a self-righteous comment. What I mean is that when I was in my corporate world, I was just doing a job that didn't have any tangible results. Except for meeting goals or selling quota Yeah. Or whatever, which is important, but who's it important to? Not to dissuade anyone, but that's, for me, that's what it was. And I felt very unfulfilled for many years. I became an entrepreneur, worked my ass off, had to work really hard to build something that I've now sustained through nine 11, 2000 8, pandemic, everything that we've had to go through. But it gives you the sense of pride and the sense of ownership and the sense of the difference that I can make in what I've done now for the past 25 years, I couldn't have done working for someone else. Yeah. Because I, and that was just my experience. I'm not saying that's everyone. So I'll give you as much support. I'll be here for you if you need it, but I find once you've done it, it's really hard to go back.'cause during the pandemic when our company shut down, I thought, okay, what would I do if I had to go back to work for someone else? And the thought of making, shaved ice on Maui sounded really appealing because I didn't know if I could do the big corporate thing. Yeah. So what was the premise behind it when you were starting to think about Gaddies? What was the thought behind that? The thought was how do we use tangible things to help build a community and and I think, identity and expression shows up every day. And what are we wearing? How are we expressing ourselves? And that was the space that I knew, right? So initially it was very, that piece, and I used to actually describe it as our mission is to, I think I said celebrate and validate, but I've actually just changed that to, it's about s it's about celebrating and representing. And part of that is because there was so much focus on, I did research, talked to a lot of dads, and there was this like intense need to qualify how one became a parent that I experienced with queer dads. And I wanted to just say, fuck that, right? If you're a dad, you're a dad. And so it's about being very declarative. It's about being very strong and it's about being very unapologetic in terms of this is who I am, this is my life, this is my family, let's go. So there was that piece, I think to your. The power of the internet, right? I'm just a guy working in my basement. And then you have people across three different continents so far who have gone on the internet, gone to the website, seen what we're selling, seen what we're making, seen what we're building, chosen to give us money to buy product and then get involved in the community online. And I think definitely the high point for me this year was on Father's Day, you had all these people that had worn their GA's gear in their sort of social media post and talking about. I feel seen in a different way. Someone is talking to me like an adult, right? And someone is talking to me about a adult topics and focus and not just the process of what is it like to have a newborn and then care. So it's a lot of listening in real time. I'm going to do an end of year survey. I don't know if anyone will take it, but hopefully someone listening to this will go on and tell me what do you want more of? What do you want less of? And striking that balance of building the community and then also running a company at the same time and making people feel. Feel like they're growing with it, and we'll make sure that we put the link to your site in our social media. Of course. Yeah. Is it mostly merchandise? Tell the listener what Gaddies encompasses? Yeah, so right now we, we have a couple different things On our website, you'll find our Gatti's branded merchandise, so we sell t-shirts, tanks, hoodies and hats. I think caught in a Dead Romance is my personal favorite, although I love that one just came out. Thank you. I love that one. We all just came out with dog ga for those that have four, four legged friends bottles and biceps. So just having a lot of fun and using the wit that I think is true in the gay community and express themselves. We also, we have a bookstore so we have a bookstore that only has books written by gay dads or about gay dad families. Oh, wow. People wanna celebrate our families, and they don't always know how to do this. So one of the ideas behind this was creating one place where someone could come. You have someone that is either becoming a dad, so you wanna, we sell amazing diaper bags as well. Maybe you wanna buy them a diaper bag, a book and a tea or a hat. Maybe you're buying books for your own family, you're an ally. Or as I call'em our gaty baddies. And so you wanna buy books to show your kids what love looks like. So creating the bookstore was really important to me as well. And then we also have a resource section where we've got information around family planning, legal marketplace with other gay dad owned brands. And so making it clear that yes, you can come, you can support us, but we also wanna be supportive of the whole community. What's your favorite part about Gaddies and your participation in it? What's your favorite part about it? Okay, so I'd answer that two ways. I think the first one is the way that people smile when they hear about it. And I think some people smile when they hear about it from the idea. And then some people smile and laugh when they hear the name Gaddies and they're like, oh, that's so good. And I'm like, thank you. I appreciate that a lot. And then for me, the creative elements have been so exciting, right? Someone without a background in any of this, to now even just know the very basics and, working and designing different elements that, again, people choose to go on the internet Yeah. And pay money for. But also comes with a deep appreciation and gratitude for anyone that's ever put themselves out there like this. And I did not realize how scary it was going to be. I did not realize how vulnerable it was going to be. So I also just interact with the world I think, a little bit differently.'cause I have such a different level of appreciation for entrepreneurs, artists, parents, anyone who is trying to be on social media and putting themselves out there. All that has come through this one experience. I don't know why I'm so emotional. I'm just crying through this conversation at the end. I think because I don't think I, one of the blessings of this podcast over the last two seasons has been hearing people's passion about what they do and who they are for the community and the difference that they make. And I don't care who you are everybody makes a difference in someone else's life. It can be a simple gesture, a smile, a hello on the subway in New York. Although I learned that's not something that you do there. That's a whole other story but the gesture can be as impactful as a major movement. Yeah. And I get emotional about it because if we were to really look at the collective collaboration in our community and. How we are all in this to lift people up and to bring people into connection and into community and into love. It's a really beautiful story and it's quite contradictory to the world we live in. It's just, we've got to be able to experience this kind of joy and this love. So I just got emotional when you were sharing that because I can see parents around the world, gay dads around the world, connecting to one of your t-shirts or one of your hats. Yeah. And the pride and the happiness that it gives them and the sense of belonging. I have to ask, how do you guys come up with some of these, is this kind of a Friday night bottle of wine kind of situation once the kids got into bed? Like how do you, what's the process? It's funny, I just made this video for Small Business Saturday where it was meeting the GA's team and it was just me and all of these different departments, right? Because I actually do think it's important to remind people. This whole company is me. And so I'm not Amazon. It's not going to get there in two days. Like we're just trying our best. And I know right. Some people say no one really cares, just put it out there. But if if you're building what you're, what I'm trying to build, I think that part matters. To your point, some of them felt like they've been circulating in my brain for a while. And then some of them just get inspiration from what I hear from other people, and so if we're playing out I also to play on this notion of versatility and talking about that's what we do best. And I try to be vivid, not vulgar, is the way that I describe it. And there's a very fine, there's a very fine line. So trying to figure out I like that vivid. Sorry. I like that vivid, not vulgar. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. So trying to push towards that and keep a tone of voice and keep his perspective while also. Trying new things. And I think one of the advantage of coming from a very large apparel company is that I learned so much and I know how to do so many things. What I've uncovered are the challenges are that I think things have to be executed at a specific scale in order to start. And so I'm having to unlearn a lot of, I'm not a$70 billion company that needs to have 25 assets launch at the same one time when I'm releasing a t-shirt. And how do you give yourself a little bit of grace and how do you act more nimbly and be more, I don't know if that's the word, how do you be more nimble and allow people to feel like, oh, this actually is just a guy in his basement and I want to be there to support it because I crack up every time when I get emails to like, hello GA's team, or Hello GA's, whatever department. And I'm like, yo. Hi. So putting those views together and then answering your question a little bit differently, I think one of the coolest things that has actually been. For me personally, have been the interactions with older queer people. I think as a queer dad not just because of the company you get this a lot, you get approached by a lot of older queer couples when you're out because this was never possible for them. And they are so touched and they are so excited to see it. And those are just I love those moments so much and sometimes it's just a look and a nod across the room. And I, I don't need to explain that to you. And sometimes they'll just come up and start talking to you, right? They'll be like, Hey, I'm Bob and this is Joe and this is so amazing to see. We would've loved to have been parents, but, wasn't possible for us. And then on the flip side, for the younger generations, they're like, yeah, why would I not be a parent? Of course I can do that. And the, again, just like very fast developments, even though they're only 10, 15 years apart, however we wanna divide the generational piece. Yeah. Has there been something that's been really surprising to you? Before I started I talked with a couple other L-G-B-T-Q owners and they just said, listen, be prepared that you're going to get pushback from within the community. You're going to think that a lot of the pushback is going to come from the right and sort of other spaces, but once you have people's attention, people are always going to find something to be critical of. Yep. And as someone who is on a daily basis working on self-confidence and working on believe in our ourself, that can be really hard to deal with. And you're like, no, that's not what this is supposed. Like I just put up this video and I actually intentionally don't have my kid in that many things. And that's whole, a whole other conversation. But it was a cool moment or a very random moment where the Kardashians, Chloe Kardashian was launching a popcorn and she, they reached out to have us do a little thing for it. And so we put up this little video of the two of us and our kid, and now there are just comments of like, why are they ignoring the kid? Like, why aren't they playing with the kid? And I'm like I really need everyone to log off of this whatever platform and go do something else. So being able to laugh at some of this and then others feeling the feelings, talking to the therapist, working through it, and deciding you either wanna do this or you're, or you don't, but you're the engine. And I say this from experience as well. There are always going to be people who will tear you down and Yeah. And want to throw those comments. These days we don't know if they're real or not, but they'll say it. Yeah. And I've, right. Is it a bot? Is who is it? Is it, what is it? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But then I sit back and I a couple conversations ago was having a similar conversation and the thing that came up was an answer to a question. Why do people have such issues with our community, especially the trans community? And this person who happens to be trans said it's'cause we're outliving our lives authentically and they can't handle it because they're not. And it's as direct and as harsh as that was, it has a semblance of truth to it, right? Yeah. It's that you're outliving your best life. You're out there creating content and creating clothing and creating a community. And I truly believe that if we really strip down the comments, it's just about that comment comes from a place of unfulfillment and a place of not being able to do what they want to do. And that might be Pollyanna of me, but that's where I stand because I can't believe that someone would actually come on to your site and say something negative about somebody who's out making a difference in world. I get many death threats a week. I get many. All the negative comments that people warned me were going to happen. Again, I just delete us. Go. The whole other podcast that I can't even do I can't even do it. I've wanted to go down that road with someone. I'm like, I'm not even going to put it on the air. Not going to do it. Yeah. Because we're going to focus on the positive. Yeah. So what's next? What's next for David? Yeah, so a couple exciting things for next year. We're working on starting some of our first in-person connections. So going to pilot those and then working on a separate project that's going to be talking about how do we profile and tell stories of a lot of the community in one piece. And working through that. But it will be cool. That's awesome. Where do you see Gaddies going? What a good question. What's the ultimate? I think the ultimate is that it's part of the vocabulary. Because it's part of the vocabulary.'cause we are part of the community now. I think to your point, a whole other conversation is. How many dads that don't identify as queer are sliding into dms, are making really inappropriate comments to dads in different places in a way of trying to engage them in different activities that I don't think their existing partner would be a fan of. But that is a whole separate conversation of what does it mean to let people live authentically? And how do you decide what to let go or where to go. So I think the word becoming part of it, but the word representing just an acknowledgement and recognition and representation of the community. And, in many ways it would be great in 20 years if this doesn't need to exist, right? Not because it's so integrated, but because people feel like they have that support and they don't need to look elsewhere to find it. So well said. I think that every step that we make, every action that we take, every conversation that we have is an opportunity to create a future. That's bright and beautiful. Yeah. And inclusive. And I used to struggle with, I just wanna wake up one day where it's not discussed. And it's just part of, and I don't use the word normalized, but it's just become part of the fabric of who we are. And that at the same time, I've been really sitting back going, maybe it's not a bad thing that we continue to push out and put it out and have conversations because, and again, different episode, but we're in a space now where it's being threatened and it's being talked about in such a way that is harmful to our kids and to your kids. And to the world. Yeah. And so by us being out there and you putting out some of the content and the, phrases on the shirts is only designed to make people stop and think. For those that don't like it, go somewhere else. But those that love it, share it, put it out there. Come on board, wear the t-shirt. I'm logging in later today and I'm getting the, I'm getting a couple shirts to support, but I am, I wanna say this before I ask my last question. It's become my mantra, and I never want it to be cliche, but I say this with my whole heart and I say it with a sense of gratitude, is that the world is a better place with you and Gaddies in it. Because of what it does for Yeah. Families. See, it just makes me emotional yeah. Don't ever doubt that, David. Yeah. You are a beautiful soul that is committed to making a difference in the world, not only with your own family and within your own space, but around the world and creating a space where people can celebrate what I think is a beautiful thing is parenting. Yeah. And so I think the negative comments have been here long before Gaddies and is going to be there long after. Yeah. We just have to learn how to navigate it and there's a particular shirt that I wear around Pride season and sometimes I sleep in it. So I remind myself and I love this t-shirt and what it says, but I wear that in remembrance. And as a reminder of who I am is 100%. Absolutely okay. And fine and loved and cherished and respected by the people that matter. So I think that people will do that with your product. So I wanna thank you for not only putting out what you're putting out and being this amazing space. I could talk to you forever. I love your vibe and your energy. I wish you both the best and you're welcome back anytime as a guest on the podcast. I'd love to have you come back and yeah, talk about anything you wanna talk about. It's been a pleasure and a blessing having you on today. So thanks for being here. Thank you, Eric. My last question to you, David, if you could go back to that young David that we talked about, those early years, what would you tell him? That David, at 5, 6, 7, 8 years old, what would you tell him about his life today? Just do you, and you're going to do it. I love it. If you put that on a t-shirt, I won't credit. Yeah, there you go. That's awesome. And well put, yeah. Yeah. David, thanks for being here, but both are very true. Yeah, both are very true. Thanks so much. Yeah. Oh, I love it. This is going to be great. I will make sure again, that we'll put your website up on our social media. I encourage people to check out the Gaddies site and show your support and yeah, we'll talk again soon. All right. Thanks Eric. Take care. Bye. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just Do You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you could easily share the podcast and episode directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at Just Do You pod as you go out back into the world today. Remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.