S3E07 with Charlie Chapman - The Practice That Changed Everything

In the midst of all the chaos, how do we heal, reconnect, and come home?  This has been a question that has consumed my daily thoughts of late so today’s conversation feels especially timely.  

In a world that can feel overwhelming where uncertainty, stress, and constant noise can take a real toll on our nervous systems it’s easy to find ourselves drifting into anxiety, disconnection, or even isolation. In those moments, self-care isn’t a luxury… it’s essential. It’s how we find our way back to ourselves.

That’s why I’m so honored to introduce today’s guest, Charlie Chapman.

Based in San Diego, Charlie is a wellness practitioner offering a deeply intentional approach to embodied and contemplative yoga that is deeply rooted in presence, nervous system care, and relational integrity. What makes his work so impactful is that it was born from lived experience.

After a chapter that tested and transformed him, Charlie found his practice and it didn’t just steady him, it changed everything. Now, he’s paying that forward.

Through in-person group classes, private sessions, workshops, retreats, and collaborations, Charlie has created more than just offerings he’s built a community. A space where people can slow down, reconnect, regulate, and feel supported in navigating life’s challenges.

Because in times like these, having tools and a community to support your mental, emotional, and physical well-being can be everything.

This conversation is an invitation to explore what it means to care for yourself on a deeper level, to tend to your nervous system, and to remember that even in difficult chapters, transformation is possible and you don’t have to go through it alone.

So take a deep breath, settle in, and let’s get into a conversation that left me changed … for good.  

To follow Charlie on Instagram, visit https://www.instagram.com/charchap.embodied

Thank you for joining us and we can't wait to welcome you back again next week! New episodes drop every Thursday and can be found wherever you find your favorite podcasts!  

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Want to learn more about our host, Eric Nicoll?  Visit:  https://ericnicoll.com

Transcript

0:01

Hello everyone, and welcome to Season Three of the Just Do You Podcast. I'm Eric, Nicoll, your host, and I'm so glad you decided to join us today. Whether this is your very first time joining in on the conversation or you've been listening along since the beginning, thank you for being here. This podcast exists because of you. Your stories, your courage and your willingness to keep choosing yourself even when it's not easy. The Just Do You Podcast is a safe space for authentic, unscripted conversations that connect us, inspire us, and remind us of who we are at our core. Together we're going to explore confidence, voice, truth, and what it means to step fully into what I call the just do you sweet spot, that place where you are living honestly, intentionally and unapologetically. This new season is about growth, reflection. Possibility in community. I'll be sitting down with friends, colleagues, community leaders, and influencers who are willing to share their journeys, the wins, the challenges, and everything in between. We'll laugh. We may shed a few tears, but in the end, we're going to continue to remind one another that none of us is walking this path alone. So are you ready? Great. Let's do this. Welcome to Season Three of the Just Do You Podcast. All right everyone. Welcome to today's episode. I am so excited to introduce not only a friend, but a mentor and a teacher, and someone that really has an impact in not only my life, but the lives of those he touches. So I'm going to get right into it and I'm going to introduce everyone to Charlie Chapman. Hi Charlie. Hi Eric. Thanks for having. How are you? Oh, my pleasure. I've wanted to do this for a long time and I'm so glad that we spent the time to schedule today. It's probably the best times to have this conversation. So before, before we go down that road, I want to do a little introduction so my guests know who we're talking to today because I know you so well. But Charlie is an embodied yoga coach, and one of the things that I read on your bio, Charlie, is that it said embodied and contemplative yoga offerings, grounded in presence, nervous system care, and relational integrity. And you offer these practices through classes that you give through workshops and retreats and collaborations. I've been thinking about this episode today and how important it is to make the time for yourself. And many people, especially these days, struggle with finding that time to take 15 minutes to get centered or take time to walk and enjoy nature and maybe decompress or detach from the world that we're experiencing right now. And so one of the blessings that I've had over the past couple of months is really getting into your space and seeing how you not only manifest, but operate and navigate your life. So I'm really excited to be able to introduce our guests to you today before we get into this embodied yoga coaching and contemplative offerings and describing some of those things for the listener who may not be really aware of what all that is. I would love it if you would just take us back a little bit and share about young Charlie. I'm curious to know. What life was like for you back then, and I'm talking younger age, are you an only child, siblings, parents? Where'd you grow up and what was young Charlie like? Yeah. Thanks Eric. Yeah, so I am the youngest of three kids and I came into this world as an extremely sensitive individual and I was always paying attention to what I would call the emotional weather in the room. And before I had language for nervous system awareness or trauma-informed practices, I could always feel when people or situations were tense or unsafe and when something wasn't safe or when people were disconnected from themselves and each other, I then felt unsafe. In all of it. And like a lot of people, I got the message early on that my sensitivity was a flaw. Insert words such as too much. So I spent many years trying to manage everything while simultaneously outrunning my sensitivity instead of leaning into it, understanding it. And that led to real struggles. Addiction burnout, long stretches where I felt like I was living outside of my body. So then insert recovery. Contemplative practices and yoga slowly bringing me back to my body. One of the biggest realizations along the way was that healing wasn't fixing. There was no fixing myself that needed to happen. The healing was learning how to stay with my experience, and I'm still learning it. Learning how to stay in my body without immediately trying to escape the sensation of dysregulation or feeling unsafe, and that realization has changed everything. Yeah. Do you think that as we're talking, and I am sitting in the space of true listening, really being present with you and that journey, I'm finding obviously very similar stories in everyone that has come on as a guest on this podcast, which then I think parlays into everyone in the world, right? Everybody. Everybody has a journey from birth till death, and that journey is not always easy. It's not always without its circumstances. They have their moments of joy, they have their moments of breakdown, but I think we do a huge disservice. And I don't know how to change this. This is why I love people like you, because you are in that introspective space and really looking at consciousness is, I think we do a real bad job at teaching at a young age. The process of staying connected and what that means and the difference that it may make, not in the change of circumstances or in the fact that things happen in our lives, but how we process them, how we navigate. And I just think we do a really poor job at that and then we're left to finding our yoga instructors at the age of 60 or whatever the case may be, a retreat that you attend or some sort of awakening if you will, much later on in life. And then we spend the time unpacking and processing. And what I love about you and the work that you do with us through our yoga practice together, and I've experienced this many times with you, is that process of walking through gently and being present to thoughts and emotions and feelings and sensations and everything that come up, which obviously keeps us within our own bodies. Do you agree though that we don't do that well in helping people earlier on maybe start to develop some of this ability to navigate and to process and to stay present? I just find that it's just non-existent. Yeah. Yeah. I'm tracking and I always hesitate to make these broad, sweeping statements. And for the purposes of an a podcast audience, let me make a broad, sweeping statement that yes, societally we are not being given the tools systemically, we are not led through. I am going to change it. Yeah. Systemically we are not encouraged to, stay with sensation. And that's been by design. I'm quite clear on that. And more and more in this age of hyper connectedness. And I'm not speaking about connected my heart to yours. I'm speaking connected my screen to yours. We are seeing people more and more from all walks of life, offer. Contemplative practice offer insight and tradition that leads us back to our heart. So I think what I'm hearing in your question is, is your own experience of this and your own experience shaping you, your perception of the overarching systemic discord that that has shaped our reality. Yeah. Yeah. And I appreciate you pointing to it. You brought it up the other night after I dropped you off from our class. We talked about that and used, you used those words by design. And it shook me, Charlie, because intuitively I know that, you know that it's by design. I I think a lot of what we're experiencing right now in our worlds personal worlds and in the world is by design and it's strategic. At the same time, it's very frustrating for an empath or someone who has the opportunity to meet extraordinary people every single week on this podcast and throughout my life that all share the same story and process, if you will, and thought that. If we don't take a look at this and we don't ask the questions and we don't inquire as to perhaps why or what's the intended outcome, what is the design? And we don't start to look at that, then we grow further and further apart, not only from ourselves, but also from our community. And when I met you through SDNY that first class we took with Marty and you were there, I kept being drawn to your energy. That's a big thing for me. I am, that's how I've met most of the practitioners and people that I work with in my life is through that energetic connection. If even I'm walking down, a corridor in the TSA line at the airport, I could, I will connect with people in, in, in a very different way. And it's something that I've always been very proud of. And. And take an action on, but I fear if we don't ask the questions and we don't look at the reasons why, or at least have a conversation about it, we do pull farther and farther apart from ourselves. And I have experienced that many times throughout the last decade, specifically where I am so disconnected from myself and from my own thoughts and emotions and feelings that I know that I go down to a very dark place and can then have the world around me compound that right by social media. We talked a little bit about this too. What I find so powerful about the work that you do in the classes is that many times, and this isn't to judge. Anybody or show disrespect to any practitioner. But there's many opportunities that I've had doing yoga around the world where I've walked into a class that could be 20, 30, 40 people shoved into a room, great vibes and music going, and everyone's wearing their lululemon and looking fabulous. And the class is very systematic, right through its movement, and you're in and out within an hour and everyone goes on without their day. And there's no space for connection. And I have found myself leaving those classes feeling very unfulfilled. And yet again, not to be judgmental. It works for what the intention is of the people going to the class. What I have found so interesting with you is that I come into the class in a space of being open to learn. And a space to connect, not only with myself, but with you in community. And yet I've left every single class and every conversation with you for that matter, in class or out of class, with a very inquisitive question looming in my head that has me start to dig deeper into what it means to be connected, not only to myself, but to others, and to community and how important that is. And so that's why I asked that question earlier is because by design that's out there, we sometimes have to book that system. And I find the work that you do. And I wanted you to explain a little bit, just because again, I'm not sure that everybody that's listening understands what embodied means or, contemplative yoga. Explain a little bit about that so they'll have a basis of the discussion, if you don't mind. Yeah. Thank you. Always welcome to reel me back to the point, oh. Girl, you and I have gone to places that there's no coming back from we didn't have, we weren't limited to an hour. So yeah, so there's that. So thank you. Sure. Embodiment is what it sounds like. It is being in your body, being present for what the body and all of its systems are experiencing. And right now I'm really focused on nervous system awareness. Am I in a place of activation where I'm in my parasympathetic or am I with external stimuli from a place of regulation and to be regulated? I'm probably getting too wordy here. No. Nope. Great. To be regulated is not to always be in your sympathetic nervous system. It is being able to rise to have parasympathetic activation. There's safety in that. There's wisdom in it. The body is inherently capable of holding us through experience of varying levels, high highs, low lows, and everything in between. So embodiment. So just to put that in my 1 0 1 terms. So what that's saying is that we have that innately, right? That parasympathetic paray, I don't even say the word. We have that opportunity. Correct. And always, it's always there. It's just tapping into that. Is that correct? Embodiment specifically or that Yes. And the distinction you talked about between the peric nerve and the other. We always, that's always available to us. Yeah. It's just we have to learn how to tap into it and how to, and be present to it. What does it feel like? What are we experiencing? Correct. Yeah.'cause I think people will say how do we know? How do we know when we're in one of those two spaces? And I think that's where people get off track. Your heart racing is, are you sweating? Is your face warm? Is your stomach or your chest tight? Chances are your nervous system. Is in its parasympathetic mode right then. Okay. Yeah. And when it's not, where are we? Is your chest open? Are you able to catch your breath? Is your stomach doing what your stomach does? Is it digesting? Can you feel that happening? Can you notice that your feet are on the ground? Have the sweats dissipated? Has color returned to your face or the heat left it? Yeah. Yeah. And why is it important or, something I see a lot is have the shakes stopped. Yeah. And why is it important for people to be present to those. Thoughts, feelings, emotions, experiences. Why is it important for us to be present to that as opposed to just floating through our day? What does it do to us if we don't present that presence that, and are aware of what's happening inside of our body? What happens to us? Yeah. So in my experience not presencing it, as you said, leaves way too much room in my opinion and experience for the world's interpretation of me. To influence my thoughts, words, and actions. And too much room for my limited. Perspective of the world, my biases, my conditioning, my influences to inform thoughts, words, and actions. I have it, and maybe this is my analogy in my, I haven't done as many years of studying as you have and experience, but it's almost like always needing the cup to be filled. Every time we try to empty the cup so that we have space and we have opportunity and room to experience other things, we immediately fill the cup up. So that cup is never emptied, if you will, or if it's emptied, it's continually refilled and it doesn't allow the space for anything else. And so that's how I hear that right, is that when I'm open, when I am, in a space of wanting to experience all that. A tendency is to fill it up with all of those other emotions, the fear, the, the shaking, the trembling, all of those, the thoughts. All of that fills up so quickly. It's so conditional and this is my experience is that it's so conditional and where I'm really working right now, currently and working with you is to allow that space to just flow naturally. It's not easy. It's definitely not easy, but I want, my commitment to myself is to. Really be present to the sensations and what's happening in my body at all times because I have a tendency, I think like most people, like you said, we have so many distractions right now, Charlie, so many distractions, so many that are coming at us at all angles. And it's not easy to take the time to step away and to put the phone down and to go and remove yourself, to give yourself that opportunity. But it's so important. I know for me, and this is just my experience, that maybe this will help someone who's listening kind of resonate, is I know when I wake up in the morning, if I don't take the time to breathe and to do a little bit, even if it's just a few minutes of stretching and some meditation, and to practice gratitude, I wake up into what's going on in the world and instantly that sets my day. For the rest of the day. And that's where I get jittery and jumpy and I feel completely out of my body and don't feel connected. And there are days that I don't get back on track and there are days that I do. And so I think that's the human experience. But for me it's been really interesting making a conscious effort to presence those sensations in my body and how I'm waking up in the morning and how I'm going to bed at night and the thoughts that are running through my head. And the commitment to stay on target and to stay on track with my practice, right? A couple times a week, yoga, my swim class, my meditation, my art class, all of those things that allow me to feel more present and to feel more inside of my body. I was sharing that with you before we jumped on, and I think if people. Who are struggling will take a little time to just even try it. I think part of the challenge that we face is number one comparison. We're looking at other people on social media and what they're doing and the experiences they're having through their practice. And if we're not having that same experience, we judge ourselves, which sometimes allows us to not go back, right? So our journey and our practice is our journey and our practice, and I tell people to stick with it. And so I encourage people to, they don't want to, they don't have time for an hour yoga class, hop online, find a 10 minute brief class, right? Just get something in the works and then you'll find time for it. And I think that's really important. Do you agree that people may be so distracted, but to really find the time to take for themselves is super, super important, especially now. Yeah. Thank you. It's a rich question and I am earmarking it for just a moment. So that for the listeners, I can say, as an embodied yoga coach, what I'm doing is helping people arrive safely in present moment experience from this flesh suit that we wear, that we, that is the vessel for our life. So we're going to come into our bodies and we're going to stay for the hour or the 90 minutes, or the entire length of the workshop, or the retreat, whatever it may be. We're going to practice staying with what's rising, what's arriving and noticing. What shifts as we stay with it from a place of compassionate awareness and we're going to use the tools of so many beautiful faith traditions and insight traditions and just like I were making you a home cooked meal, I'm going to choose the ingredients that are on hand and that are right for the dish that we're cooking up. That's what I'm doing as an embodied yoga coach, and that's what I love about your classes is because they are never the same. No. Because we are not. That's an important though distinction though, is you are creating that class in that moment, I'm assuming. Yeah. Based on the read of the room. Yeah. If you will. Yeah. Based on the read of the room. It's not your systematic. Okay. Now we're going to go into flow and do the next six moves that I do every single week. Some days it's a little hard, my friend, some days it's like, there's some, I'm like, is he ever going to get out, get us outta this pose, or are we just going to stay here forever? But that's a whole other part of the context of the podcast. I do have a question for you, because I think it's important to share your experience as well. What was it like for the first time you experienced that? Was it in a class? Was it in your training? Was it in your teaching? What was that like the first time? It's I know exactly where it was, and I'm certain that it was with one of two teachers. And it was, it almost felt unsafe because of how unfamiliar it was. And I was overcome I was entirely overcome with emotion and my body was sweating profusely. And as someone who grew up in a male body who was consistently told how well-suited my body was for athletics or violence, really, you should be a linebacker. That was the the running. Advice. You should play football and be a linebacker. What? No way. No way. So that, that kind of stuff, always it, over the years it compounded and I ne I didn't feel safe to emote to have my emotions publicly. But in that first experience of feeling the embodiment of the practice that was being offered, the feeling of dysregulation faded fast because I was held in a skillful container by a skillful teacher. Yeah. Were you. Training at that time? Or was this just, Hey, I'm going to head off to a yoga class. This was knee deep in active addiction. Or maybe head fully submerged, by the metaphorical waters of, and I was looking for any solution and I had yet to realize that all solution came from within. Or would come from within. Yeah. And I'm sure in the moment and experiencing that, although a tad bit frightening and disorienting considering it was not familiar, there's something inside of you and in all of us that says may feel awkward. It may feel a little strange, but it feels right, and that has you go to the next class or the next experience and to the next experience. And to build on that, I believe in my heart that we're all here on this earth to be of service to other people and to give back and to make a difference and leave the world a better place than we found it. And. The other thing that I firmly believe is that who we are in this world is not our circumstances, and that our circumstances certainly shape us and our thoughts and how we may make decisions, but they do not define us. They are not who we are. And that's been really important for me and for my growth and for my journey, is to, remind myself that I am not my parents' divorce, I am not my divorce, I am not, all of those things that have been hard and difficult or challenges to overcome who I know who I am and that continually changes and grows. But at the core of it, I do know who I am and I know what my purpose is here. I've spent a lot of time working on that, and I think that. Your experience of that first moment. And I'm so glad that you said that because I feel like so many people take that first experience of the unfamiliar and it have be uncomfortable and instantly and immediately make a decision that this isn't going to work or it's weird or airy fairy or, what do they call it? Woo-hoo. And don't continue. And it's not to say that everybody needs to go out and do yoga or meditation, find out whatever that is for you. But I am so grateful to practitioners like you who hold the space despite what's happening in your own world, right? We like to think that you are all very transformed and potentially free from any type of circumstantial, situations in your life. We know that's not true. We like to think that, but it's not true. But that you hold that space for us and for the community. Because it's in the holding of that space that people find you and people find their way. And I truly believe that it's one of the reasons why I did this podcast is because I wanted to be able to connect people to other people. Whether it was just to feel a little bit less alone or perhaps see something or a practice that they weren't ever aware of to say, that interests me, I think I might like to try that, or I've always wanted to do that and have it be something that's not afraid. And let's face it, every time we walk into a new situation, whether it be a new first time yoga class, or meditation or the gym or anywhere, we're having to process all the thoughts that are thinking us in that moment as opposed to just being free to experience. And so it's in that holding of the space for us that we're able to walk in despite our conversations and our internal monologue and experience something that. We may or may not have been expecting. I'm very grateful to have had that opportunity with you and still continue to have that with you. I'm curious so you, your first experience you shared, you were, as you put it, knee deep or head first into a addiction. When did you decide that this path for you of coach, teacher Intuit, was for you? When was, when did you, when did that take place and what was that moment, if you don't mind sharing? Yeah. I thank you and once again, it's a rich question. I from a young age was invited to. Be of service to others. And quite often I was informed that I would be being of service to others before I had autonomy, right? And there was always something that drew me to it, whether or not I'm, look, now I'm looking through the lens of what was acceptable of my parents or the other authority figures in my life to have asked of me and put on me as a young person. Holding that truth that. Some of it was downright abusive. And the realization that a life of being of service to others was the way forward for me, I would say came maybe just a month or two into my recovery journey. And in most recovery modalities, you're encouraged to be of service to others, and that's one of the things that I would say most modalities are getting. Interest and it's a, it's it's a selfless service that we're pointing toward. Because there's a distinction, there's a distinction between selfless service and non selfless Yeah. Being of service. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Not being guilted into it or forced into it or insert the adjective into it. Yes. When it's selfless, then it's such a huge impact. Yeah. And I've seen people making the argument that can any service truly be selfless? And I don't think that minutia, I don't think there's room today to get into that. And this is where I encourage students and fellow practitioners or people who are me, maybe neither of those. Adjectives work for you. Maybe you don't identify as a student of anything or a practitioner of anything, so human to human. Let's acknowledge that when we are in alignment with that, which is bigger than all of us. That which so many faith traditions and so many organized religions have been trying to ascribe definition, name and form to that, which is formless, that's animating all of it. So let's call it life force energy. For the purposes of this conversation, we know we feel. When we're attuned to that connecting thread and when we're moving in service of in the sick faith tradition, we might be encouraged to ask ourselves, what would love have me do today? And when I ask that question of myself, that L is capital. Explain to people what sick is. Yeah. Thank you. SIKH you might know it or commonly hear it pronounced as Sikh, the Sikh people. Traditionally and in their language, it's pronounced SIKH. It's a faith tradition that arose in the Punjab region of Northern India in. The very late 14 hundreds at the turn of the 16th century, the year 1499. It's a beautiful, rich faith tradition that teaches us ways to remember oneness, capital O. It's hard when you're not sitting face to face with you, or some people will just be listening to this in the car on their way to work. But when one sits face to face with you and has the experience of what you have to offer and to share, I wasn't able to put a description to it until just this recording. And that is, is that you are somebody who has. Such a vast amount of knowledge and experience that to me shows many lifetimes of the same life lived. If that makes any sense. And what I'm saying to those that might just on right over their head is that this is may not be the first time in this body that you're in, that you've done this work. Because when you speak and when you lead us through the sessions and the yoga sessions, and you take the time and you think, and you process before you speak, it's super powerful. Charlie and I want you to know that's recognized because again. My past experience has not been as enlightened or as connected in terms of what you're teaching your students and why it's important for them to know why you're teaching them what you're teaching them, if that makes any sense. So what I love about the experience and what I hope others can experience and find it themselves is an opportunity to look at yoga and to look at meditation and to other modalities within that world or that genre, if you will, and make it work for them. Make it important for them. This is not one size fits all, right? This is not, one class is going to suit everyone's needs. But I think what's so powerful in this moment that we're living in right now is again, we're just bombarded with so much. Noise from everywhere. It's at work, it's at home, it's on the tv, it's on social media. That if we don't take the time to find that space of exhale, of a deep breath, of a moment, to connect with ourselves and to connect with, and again, whatever you want to call it, your higher power, the universe, whatever, God, whatever that may be for you, if we don't take the time to do that and we don't start now, I worry. I worry. And it started with COVID. I mean it started before that, but it was amplified with COVID because we were so sequestered and I was chatting with someone the other day. In a conversation about what did we do with that time that we had while we were sequestered? What did we do with it? Did we learn something new? Did we read a great book? Did we get out and take a walk in nature and smell the flowers? What was it that you did to do self-care? And it's fascinating to me because so many people that I talk to took the time to really focus on themselves, what's important to me, what makes me feel good, what brings me joy, what brings me enlightenment? And for me, it was a very difficult time the last 7, 8, 9 years. Very difficult in many respects, just like everyone else. I'm clear that if I didn't have the practices that I have been working on the past decade, that it would've been a lot more difficult. So as we navigate our way through this current noise, what are some of your, obviously if people aren't in San Diego, they can't come to your class, but what are some of your thoughts and what are some of your recommendations to people who may be sitting in that space of, this sounds amazing and it sounds like something that I really want get connected with. How do they do that? If they don't have the resources at their fingertips, what's the best way for them to find that connection, that community? Yeah, thank you. And for those listening who were experiencing a lot of silence from me while Eric was just speaking, that was intentional. That's part of my practice is listening not only to what's being offered, but staying with the sensation of. Where I want to interject or where I want to come to the rescue with solution. So thanks for staying through the silence. And Eric, to your point that if someone isn't in San Diego, California, they can't practice in person with me. That's true. But I am available for virtual and remote practice as well. And I am very aware that there are folks who want less screen time or maybe don't invite screen time at all. And I'm of the last generation that. Only new landline phones and used to knock on the neighbor's door without calling ahead. So right. Phone calls are always welcome to, or if someone needs a pen pal maybe that's the way forward. So poetically, I'll say in this moment, since this opportunity is here, that the unknown is where all outcomes are possible. And if what is being shared here today is carrying resonance for you, I encourage you to reach out to me. If I'm not the teacher for you, I most likely can guide you toward a colleague or a fellow practitioner who's. More aligned. Most important to name here is that for many, the overwhelm is such that if it might feel impossible to carve out even 10 minutes of your day for quote unquote self-care practices. And something that really encouraged me in the beginning of my recovery journey was. A meditation preamble that, and I was taking people at their word then I was desperate, right? And so I was not, maybe not desperate, but I was longing. I was longing for something that would fit. So when someone offered a meditation preamble that said, there's no right or wrong way to meditate, my ears perked up because I had watched people sit for 30 minutes with an erect spine and come out a little more grounded or maybe significantly more quote unquote zen out. And I'd be like, man, that looks. Fantastic. But my brain's not going to sit still for that long. And I know that my body is not going to allow me to hold that position for 30 minutes. And I grew up and mostly in the land of quick, convenient comfort. So the very idea of staying with discomfort in my body or my mind for more than a few minutes was like, girl, get outta here with that shit. There's no way. So when I heard that there's no right or wrong way to meditate, I went, we'll say more. And they didn't say more in that instance, but I investigated more. And the venerable tick nhan Vietnamese Zen Master. Beautiful. A beautiful soul that just left that incarnation that we knew as Tek Nhan in 2023 founded the Plum Village tradition. And early on in my recovery journey and I attend Recovery Dharma meetings. It's a Buddhist inspired and peer led approach to recovery from addiction of all kinds. So we are not talking just substance, but any behavior that you would like some support from. This is a program of empowerment and it's been really powerful being around other people who are looking at head on, right? We're staying with discomfort and. We're taking our little flashlights and going, what is that in the corner there? So Tek, not Hanh. Taught seated meditation. Silent meditation, guided meditation, walking meditation. And that was my clue in, there's no right or wrong way to meditate. And, oh, here's this thing called walking meditation. And I was like, sign me up, because if I'm walking. Who's to say that I can't stop and sit or stop and bend over to touch my toes if my back is feeling too compounded or if there's discomfort in my hips or my ankles that I can't stop and take care of it. That's the way I've always walked, right? So that is my gentle and maybe long encouragement that if you think these practices aren't for you I encourage you to reconsider and to find agency in yourself. And if you are looking for guidance on what, carving out time and creating practices that sustain and support you through. All of life, high highs, low lows, and these extremely fraught times that we're in. Yeah. Please reach out. Yeah, we're going to make sure that people have a way to we Yeah. To connect with you. For sure. We will. And I encourage people to do the same. You say that a lot in class. There's no correct. And you don't just say meditation. You say it in yoga too. There's no right or wrong way. But I will tell you just a couple quick things that I notice about class is that, and you also say, which I love, is that if something doesn't feel good to you. Make the adjustment. And I, what's fascinating is in class you've got multiple people doing the class, and you'll notice the most micro adjustments that people will make and you'll acknowledge it. And that to me is so remarkable, Charlie, is that you are so present to what's happening in that room and holding that space for all of us that you notice the slightest adjustment, which helps us as students, if you will make yoga work for us as opposed to forcing it. And I think that's super important. And I just want to say one thing about the virtual. We were forced to do virtual classes during COVID. There was no choice. And I used to be the big anti, I'm not doing anything online. I need to be face to face with someone, but there is a power to it, and there is an opportunity for you to stick your toe in the water, if you will. And so what's available to us these days is to be able to reach many more people. And I am the first person to say that. You can make this what works for you. When I wasn't practicing last year and would find myself in a really dark space for a couple months, a former practitioner or a current practitioner I should say that I work with, that I hadn't talked to in a while, called me and said, I'm sensing something's up with you. What's going on? And I shared what was happening and she said, are you doing your morning ritual? And I said, I started to say yes'cause I wanted to lie to her and tell her that I was doing it, but I knew she knew and I said, no. And she goes, it's why you're in the headspace that you're in. She goes, if you don't have the time in the morning. Tone it all down. And I literally was waking up every morning. I did five minutes of breathing. I did five to 10 minutes, probably 10 minutes of stretching and some yoga poses. I colored in a coloring book. It was a Mandela coloring book, which I have by my bedside, which I love. I spent 15 minutes coloring, 10, 15 minutes and then I did what some would call affirmations or manifestations, and I did that every day and I noticed very quickly that I was waking up in the morning to. What's going to happen today? What's going to be the good thing that happens today? What's going to be the thing that I'm most grateful for at the end of the day? As opposed to, oh shit, what's going to happen today? There's a big distinction in what that kind of shift does to our overall health. Not just our mental health Yeah. But our physical health as well. And we are in a time right now where we need to focus on taking care of ourselves. And so whatever that looks for you, I took a walk on Saturday just out with the dog and I walked a different route. I went to a different trail and I stared at the ocean the entire time. And I got back in that car and I was so happy'cause I connected with something that's different. And so I encourage our listeners, no matter where you are, to find that works. And like I said, we're going to make sure that you have access to Charlie and I encourage you to reach out and to make a connection. Life exists through a network of conversations. And those conversations have to be had with someone else. They can't be had with yourself because our monologue does not always steer us in the right direction, whereas a conversation opens us up to infinite possibility. So I noticed you were going to say something and I didn't want to cut you off. Yeah I'm going to poke a little bit of fun at that because life does exist through a series of conversation and experience, and it's been my experience that we avoid. And again, I think it's been by design that we were taught to seek externally. And the most important conversation that we can have today is with ourself. And n not. With the voice of the inner critic, if you will. Or oh, I don't, this name's going to allude me for just a moment. Michael Allen Singer wrote a book called The Untethered Soul, and he speaks a lot in that book about the inner roommate. And then colloquially, I have a dear recovery friend whose name for. This voice that I'm pointing to, the inner critic or the inner roommate refers to it as the back brain bitch. And true. So true. That, that, that one I think I like the most. That's who I said. Not to talk to, not yourself, but that's the one. It's not about not talking to them, it's about letting them know that they're safe and offering them our, the compassion that exists and leaves room for them. It's a part of the mind doing what it's meant to do, which is keep us safe and in a world that tells us that our, our uniqueness. I want to refer to it as our magic, our uniqueness is often too much in a world that would have us believe that, and that has been designed to condition us to believe that we are too much. Where the feedback loop is constant around your individuality, your uniqueness, your spark, your magic is too much. Of course, it is for systems that want to oppress you and for systems that get fed by you believing that you can be oppressed, that you can be kept small and limited. Of course, we become conditioned to look outside of ourselves for answer for solution. What's happening. The ex you, and you've pointed several times to the experience that you're having in our San Diego naked yoga classes. And that's a unique sort of willingness to come in and bear it all. I, and I don't mean it's unique in that it isn't accessible to everyone, right? But con there's can be so much conditioning around and Lord knows I had to figure my own out to get comfortable with being new to a room of other people. Forward folding, that, that, that's a unique thing. It's a particularly vulnerable thing. And I get excited and my brain goes off in a few places and No, you're tracking. Yep. So I want to just really highlight for folks that you might literally not be able to see the forest for the trees right now, and you might not look at your day if you are a parent, if you're a caregiver, insert whatever the circumstance may be that has you feeling as though you have absolutely no time for yourself. My encouragement would be as you are brushing your teeth or as you're washing your hands. And there's a mirror in front of you, right? Say for most of us, certainly not for everyone, but for most of us, there's a mirror somewhere in our home. And if there's not, there might be a reflection in a pool of water somewhere. Offer yourself that length of time, washing your hands or brushing your teeth to look into your own eyes, to eye gaze with yourself. It's been long believed by mystics and sages the world over that the eyes are the window to the soul, and maybe that's where you start. Maybe that's the entryway. If it feels so inaccessible to find stillness or to find routine for yourself or your family or those that you're caregiving for, let this be your invitation to stare at your own wonder and majesty. Look into your own eyes. Even if you can't believe that, what you're going to find there is majesty and wonder. I would encourage you to just humor me and for a week or maybe two, or see what happens. What's the harm in staring into our own eyes? And for some even that might feel inaccessible. And there are those who've experienced trauma that report that they cannot possibly look into their own eyes because it does not elicit safety. Of course I can't offer something to fit everyone's situation and circumstance, but I will do my best to acknowledge that even though I may not know you, I recognize the uniqueness in your journey, the struggles, the difficulties, and more than that, I will acknowledge and hopefully there's someone else in your life closer to you who can remind you of all that you are and all that you continue to overcome by simply showing up to the day. This is why I love talking to you. Why I could talk to you for hours and hours. I'm going to leave that there. I have two last questions for you before we say goodbye. I think you and I could talk all afternoon. What's next for Charlie? Both long and short form practices accessible through a variety of platforms online. So contemplative practices, meditations, dharma talks, and embodied movement practices uniquely in the category of haha yoga foundational postures. A lot more of that to come. That is something very much to look forward to and I know that people will have that same experience that many of us here have been blessed to have. So I want to thank you for your time today and I also want to thank you for who you are in this world. I've been very blessed to meet some extraordinary people through this podcast and you're now part of the Just Do You family, so you're welcome to come back anytime. As we were talking about 16 episode ideas pop through my head, so this will hopefully not be the last time that we talk. But I wanted to say thank you for being here, and I just am curious, I ask all my guests the same question as we end every episode, and that is, if you could go back to that young Charlie, what would you tell him about his life today? I. Interestingly enough, that's the second time this has come up today. And what I want him to know is that none of it was, or that because he is younger than me, right? So talking to him about what's to come, that even the messiest parts contain information. That will feed purpose and productivity and that he's loved. I, so I want to thank you again for your time today and for being here. Thank you. Yeah, it's been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure and I look forward to seeing you soon. Thank you. Bye for now. All right, everyone. Thank you again for joining us on today's episode. I hope our conversation resonated with you like it did me, and I cannot wait to sit down with you all again next week. Remember to subscribe to the Just Do You Podcast on your favorite platform so you can make sure not to miss a new episode, which drop every Thursday. If you like what you hear, you could easily share the podcast and episode directly with your friends. And if you would rate us and leave us a review, we'd love to hear from you. You can also follow us on Instagram at Just Do You Pod. As you go out back into the world today, remember to just do you. Alright, talk next week.