42 - Stay Together For The Gays (Part I)

Tyler, Isaac, and Ariel catch up on travels, Tyler’s skydiving adventures in Hawaii, and deep tissue massages. Tyler and Isaac then sit down with their friend Adam and tackle the topic of divorce. They discuss the reality of relationships ending in your 30s, the communications strategy, the real “real” of divorce attorneys, who gets what and how to decide, and of course, getting back on the post-divorce horse.

Join us on all major socials @nogaysinmontana for exclusive content!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:09

I've been watching the sal pig. Oh, she's on cam. She's on cam. You can see her.

SPEAKER_03 0:15

She is. No, she's skinny pig now. She is snatched.

SPEAKER_01 0:17

Yeah, she's always gonna be our sal pig, dog.

SPEAKER_03 0:19

She's lost three pounds. She's been farting a lot recently. Have you noticed that? Really? Yeah, she farted right in my face today. Interesting. Well, on that note, everyone, welcome to. We've got a lot of poop talk going on this. I know we do. I didn't listening back to the that last episode, I was like, wow, we really went in.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

We'll tone it down this episode, we promised.

SPEAKER_03 1:01

Welcome to their Are No Gays in Montana, the podcast where we talk about growing up gay in rural America and pooping and farting.

SPEAKER_01 1:07

No, we don't. We don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:09

We don't. I'm Isaac. I'm Tyler.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

I'm Ariel. Hi.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Isaac and I are jet-legged.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Yeah. Okay. So tell the listeners where you've both been the last week.

SPEAKER_03 1:19

Okay. I was in Hawaii for work. I know. For me. For me. Yeah. And at the same time, I was in India for a week.

SPEAKER_01 1:26

Where in India?

SPEAKER_03 1:27

Bangalore, otherwise known as Bangalore, which I just learned, which I thought it was two different cities. It's not, it's the same city. Bangalore is what it's traditionally been known as, but it's its colonial name. And so its real name now is Bangalore. But then when you go there and you say Bangalore, everyone there goes, Bangalore.

SPEAKER_01 1:42

Got it.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

So then I just spite after day one, I just started calling it Bangalore.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Okay, you really went off on a tangent there.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

How was Hawaii though?

SPEAKER_03 1:48

Hawaii. Hawaii was great.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

Okay, which islands were you on?

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Okay, so all of them. I was able to go to all of the I would say what you would consider the main islands. So that's Hawaii, the big island.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:03

That's Oahu.

SPEAKER_01 2:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

That's Kawaii.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

And that's Maui.

SPEAKER_01 2:07

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

So those are the four. Are you oh you already know the answer. I don't know the answer. No, you're just testing. Those are the big four in my life. I thought there were seven. Are there seven? Lanai and um what's the other one that starts with an M are I learned this while I was there, are privately owned. And so it's harder to get to them, but people can like pay and you can vacation there, but they're extremely remote. And then there's two that are not for public either, but they're also not vacation spots. So I think there's seven total.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 2:34

No, four, five, six, seven, eight. There's eight.

SPEAKER_01 2:36

I'll fight Chucky, don't worry.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Do you know what the state fish of Hawaii is? Huma huma utnuka nuka apwa? Yes. I learned that from 51st. No, forgetting Sir Marshall. Oh yeah. The place is magical. Yeah. So I was there 10 years ago and it was amazing. I was there with my family, but I just I think I kind of forgot. I also have such a different frame of reference of my life and the world and traveling places and things like that. But it is just, I mean, I'd love the place to death.

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Obviously, this is a work trip, so you don't have much choice here. But do y'all engage at all with the, you know, the thought out there that if you're non-Indigenous, stay out of Hawaii. Like we have enough visitors and we can't afford to rent, let alone live, and white people have kind of destroyed this land for decades and decades. Any thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_03 3:18

So well, I think you're totally, I think you're totally right, but it's like two things because I feel like you're probably also running into people that live and work there and have lived and worked there in the tourism world. I mean, Montana's like very similar. Tourism is like its largest, third largest, I think, industry. Montana and Hawaii are so no, but like the fact that tourism is its largest industry. Yes, okay. Right. And so you have people that work in tourism that are like super grateful and also like very much like, no, this is how this is our industry. This is what we do. And if we lose that, we have nothing.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

I mean, but there's so much uninhabited land in the state of Montana.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Right. But I think the difference is I don't know if people should be buying homes in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01 3:54

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

My traveling there, I think that's kind of what it's built on. Part of the reason why I think it's such a good experience is my experience this week, even outside of main places. Like I went to some pretty remote places that people don't vacation.

SPEAKER_00 4:09

Right.

SPEAKER_03 4:09

And people are very, they have a lot of pride behind the state. And the land. And so they're very welcoming and very like, how like you should do this, you should see this, and you should so do it in a better way. Right. I think so. I I I kind of was internally all week going back and forth on that, thinking like, it is crazy when you go to like Oahu, Waikiki Beach, and it is so I also think it's such a how do I put this without offending people?

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Just offend people, just say that and then we'll cut it out.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

I think it's such a a place that's for the common American tourist that wants to go to a tropical destination, it's a very like watered down version of an exotic place. Yeah. And so you and it feels safe and it feels yeah. Feels safe. It is still a US territory, like US land. Yeah. But it's tropical and exotic. It's a way to like dip your toe into it. So there's a lot of people that I think would never have interest going outside of the United States because they think it's too dangerous, that are going to Hawaii, and that is their like exotic vacation.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

I'm gonna offend people. These are casino only people. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 5:09

And I so it's just a very interesting culture from that aspect. You're watching, like, I'm seeing like the and there's it's so family-oriented. So there's so many vacationers there that are full families of like two to three kids that are all young. And so that that part is interesting and just observing that. Plus, it's also like a very like the type of people that are kind of in that realm too, very much lean into the like island life. So everyone has tacky Hawaiian like shirts on.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I struggle, you know, like everyone's really leaning into like the I have like a whole bunch of flowers, and I struggle with the we're all hanging out on the beach pretending like this is America and like we didn't colonize it. Yeah. I agree.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

To be fair, we colonized the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

So yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:49

I think our I think our group could really go off on like a Hawaii trip. Four-day Hawaiian trip. It's also really outdoorsy, and what I love about Hawaii.

SPEAKER_00 5:57

I'm not going to Hawaii.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Couldn't you just go?

SPEAKER_00 5:59

I went three years ago. That was my work.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Okay, well, I haven't gone since I was nine. Who at the table is standing most on principle? I'm glad I went skydiving. Shockingly mean.

SPEAKER_01 6:07

Okay, wait, tell us about Sky.

SPEAKER_03 6:08

I'm glad I went skydiving.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Tell us. Tell us about Skyrim.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

Isaac was trying to tell me in Costco today. We'll be back in Hawaii in the next year. You could have went. That wasn't what I was saying. This is just classic Tyler where he has a thing that he wants to do and he just like can't do it. Like he just force this to happen because I want I don't even know why he asked me. He asked me like two weeks before he said, Do you think I should go skydiving? And I'm like, you act like you're not gonna say yes and just do it anyways.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

Did you not want him to go?

SPEAKER_03 6:33

I want it to be there. Like if you I want to see the whole thing where like he goes skydiving and like you and I go and we go watch and do all this, and then he can do it again. He that's why I said I know, but I've hope Isaac comes. His first time, like I could have been fun. And also, like he's you're making my skydiving experience about you. I think it should be about us. Don't you think? Don't you want someone to be there? But what if it was just for me? Like, what if I wanted to do it? That sounds like classic Tyler. That's my point. What if it's about me? What if I wanted to do it?

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Okay, how was skydiving though? It was great.

SPEAKER_03 7:01

This afternoon, Isaac wasn't actually maybe that happy that I did it. It was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Okay, tell us, tell us.

SPEAKER_03 7:05

Phenomenal. So I was potentially considering going skydiving in Washington. Didn't end up happening. So then when I was down there, I'm like, Why the hell not? And why the hell not? And it was very extreme, I will say.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

I want to know what you felt in your body in the plane.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

So I'm someone that doesn't like that kind of stuff doesn't really scare me. Like I don't get very nervous. I was talking to Isaac.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

I know the I was talking to Isaac. Tranquilize.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

I feel like that on a plane. Every time a plane takes off, I literally am like, this is the one. Talking to Isaac before going, he's like, Are you nervous? I'm like, not really, because I just usually tell myself, like, what's the worst that could happen? Like when I go on a roller coaster guy, and then I was like, That's what he said. Then I go, Oh, wait, I guess this is like really maybe is one of those things that it could happen. But I think there was multiple times throughout the whole experience where I'm like, if I was someone that was nervous, that would have freaked me out. Or like that would have freaked me out.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

What would have freaked me out?

SPEAKER_03 7:52

So just to go over it like high level, you get there, you get your little check-in thingy, the people are showing up. All the people that like work in skydive are in Hawaii are exactly what you would picture. It's like thrill seekers, shock of bra, thrill seekers, adrenaline, junkies, life, work, social skydiving in the morning, surf lessons in the afternoon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

I mean, you said your instructor was on his like six thousandth dive.

SPEAKER_03 8:14

Yep. Moved from yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Do you call it a dive?

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Yep. Moved from uh Canada, was married, got divorced, and got into skydiving and is a lot of time to talk. We did have a lot of time to talk, and I had a lot of questions. So you show up and you you get your person and they go over the like through two times throughout the entire thing, they go over like this is what you're gonna do at this point, this point, and this point.

SPEAKER_05 8:35

And you do things.

SPEAKER_03 8:36

So in my mind, I'm like, if I'm someone that was like really nervous, I don't know if I would remember this stuff. Yeah, because they're going over it, and then also it happens so fast.

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Is it important that you do those things?

SPEAKER_03 8:45

I mean, it's he was like, if you don't do it, I'll just force something for you if I need to. Yeah. So it's like not the end of the world, but like it makes it easier for me if you do these things. Right. Were you the largest jumper? Yes, because there's limitations.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Your jumper? Yeah, he's beefy.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

No, so I asked you up. So I asked that. I said, Is there if there is there ever like a body size or type or height or anything that you have to like match people up differently? He's like, No, I've had, and my guy was kind of small. He looks beefy. He was of the smaller of all of them. And I was like, is there ever like you would match these people up? And he's like, No, I've had a 290-pound six foot eight guy one time with me. So they give you the instructions, then you all go out. It was me. There was eight jumpers total on my flight, and there's two options too. You can go at 14,000 feet or 18,000 feet.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

You did 14?

SPEAKER_03 9:32

I just did 14. 18 is similar, it's just you get like 30 more seconds of free fall time before the parachute goes. And so 30 more seconds? Yeah. Also, I didn't know this too. It's only do you know it's only you're falling for like 90 seconds? 60 versus 90 seconds. That is crazy. First when he said it, I thought the whole thing was that. And I was like, what? Yeah. It's not. It's much longer. Yeah. Wait, how long was the whole thing? Beginning, dead. Feet off the plane, feet on the ground. So you fall for probably I fell for like 60 seconds. Then I think it was probably a good five to eight minutes of gliding.

SPEAKER_05 10:04

Pretty light gliding.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Okay. Yeah. Ten minute ordeal.

SPEAKER_05 10:08

Six to seven nervous right now.

SPEAKER_03 10:10

15 minutes up in the plane. So the plane ride up is longer. Yeah. Okay. So first thing that would have freaked me out. So we all we all go. We're all waiting, and we're sitting around waiting, and there's a guy named Scooter that's not, he's late to work.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Scooter would be late to work.

SPEAKER_03 10:23

We're all waiting. He's a late to work name. Scooter shows up.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Gonja ass name.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Scooter has had a bad morning. He is visibly irritated.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I don't want him on my dive.

SPEAKER_03 10:31

I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:31

That would have thrown me.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Someone, they're like, they're like handing little supplies around to each other that they need, like, and they hand it to him, and the the one person's like, You're going all the way up, all the way up, like saying he's going to the higher one. He's like, Yes, I know. And it's just like, and I'm sitting there and I'm like, oh my god. Wait, he's a big thing. Office politics, they happen to ever know. No, he's he's a jumper. He's a jumper. He's a jumper. And he's in a bad mood.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

You're not allowed to be in a bad mood before my life-ending dive potentially.

SPEAKER_03 10:56

But I will say, you can also, so there's different levels of packages you can get for media. One where they have like an arm camera that they film you, right? And take pictures. There's also one where there's a separate person that dives on their own that does film. He was that. So he was on his own. He wasn't attached to a body. He was a photographer. Correct. They also, those people have different suits, so they can like they've got like webbing, like those squirrel suits, so they can speed up and slow down really fast jumping to catch up with people. Yeah, yeah, really. But also a parachute, obviously. Well, obviously a parachute too. Okay. Wow. Um people just jump off cliffs and do that too. And I don't understand how that's.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

They have a parachute too. Base jumpers always have a parachute.

SPEAKER_03 11:29

But it's that's but they're not using it.

SPEAKER_01 11:30

Well, they at some point they do as close to the tree level as possible, and then eventually you need your parachute to get off the floor.

SPEAKER_03 11:35

Well, I've never seen that part. You think they just landed on the room?

SPEAKER_01 11:37

So you just thought they eventually slowed down in the air and just get on their feet and just run and slow.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Yeah, they're going like this, right? And then they just you're insane. So you get in there, everyone gets in, and it's like there's two rows, and they're these little benches, and the plane is small and rickety. And it's in pictures of my there's two benches, and everyone straddles the benches, and you sit back to back, like facing backward.

SPEAKER_01 11:57

Were people freaking?

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Um, no. So they're the most freaked out. There was a couple that was on their honeymoon. There was another, I think, presumed gayman and me, and then there's a family, a a son and a mom that were doing the high one. I think the wife of the couple get on their honeymoon was probably the most nervous. So another thing that would have freaked me out or freaked people out, the plane takes off extremely uh fast.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Like probably the steepest you've ever experienced aviation.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

Oh, for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

I would not be okay.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Yeah, and you're all sitting, you have no seatbelt. You're like sitting on this bench. No, the door's closed. There's like a little roller thing, but it's not a lodge door. It's like plexiglass type thing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're like right there. It's that part's crazy too. So it takes off. It's everyone's like shifts forward and is like put holding, pushing on the thing, so you're not like slide, like falling forward. And it takes off and then it goes up. And my my dude's behind me, and he's like talking to me. He's like, Okay, we're this high now, we're about this high. Then eventually, uh, another thing that would kind of like it's just like, hmm. It all it all just happens so fast, too, right? And one thing that I didn't really think about is you're sitting there as an individual who's never done this before, and you're like, okay, we're gonna do this, then we're gonna do this, and you think you have time to process things, but they're doing their daily job that they've done every day, like you commuting to work. They're just doing things automatically. So they're all like we reach a certain height, and you can see everybody like start to like strap their people in a certain way, and they're like checking straps and stuff. And then we reach another height, then they start pulling out, they didn't tell us this, they start pulling out oxygen masks. And I was in my mind, I was like, Do we need those? Like, why do we need why is there oxygen masks coming out? So I asked Riley, I'm like, what are those for? And he's like, Well, if you go above I think 15,000 feet, you're required to have an oxygen mask in the plane. So the people that are doing the halo jump, which is the high one, are gonna put oxygen on as we jump out.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Wow. So you know at this point it's coming soon.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah, that it's coming soon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so he's kind of he's kind of telling me, like, we're at this altitude, we're at this altitude. Then he does the extra strap things. He's like, Okay, we are completely strapped up, like there's no reason at this point that we can't jump out of this plane if we were to have to.

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

Then the plane like kind of levels out and slows down a little bit, and they open the door, and it just like is so fast, you know, like it's just like that you don't have much time to think or do anything. It just all just happens, and everyone's like, So the first people go, and then basically what you do is you like slide. He's like, You just kind of lift your feet up because we're so attached that I'm gonna like slide us to the end. He's behind you because I'm last. He's like, Yeah, I'll I'll slide us to the end. Then you're gonna we're gonna turn and you're gonna sit on the edge of the plane out of the plane with your feet. Oh my god, he's like he's like, try to hold your feet on the bottom of the plane, no, and then hang on like this. Oh, I couldn't do it, and and then I, he's like, Don't try to like rock or do anything. He's like, I will rock us out, but just like all you need to do is sit. And he's like, It's gonna feel like you're out of the plane because you're pretty much out of the plane. And so he we slide his head out, like like right here. I would say, like, strapped to his stomach, a head above mine, and I'm strapped- I'm just picturing this person that's shorter than you can't see as you're in front of them. I thought it was gonna be like that too. Tyler's like this blocking the wall, and he's like, Okay, so I'm gonna push, I'm gonna push you over, but he's like down here, like this little backpack maybe.

SPEAKER_01 15:08

No, he's kind of in like a baby B-orn situation.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

Yes, on his church. Exactly, exactly. Wait, what do you mean? It's just like he's holding Tyler like. My head's like right here on him.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Like if he had a front pack, that's where Tyler is.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Like here.

SPEAKER_03 15:19

Yeah. But when you're both sitting on this bench, you're here.

SPEAKER_01 15:22

Well, they've started unstrapped, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Yeah, we were not completely strapped together until only partially strapped together until like the last three minutes.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Where were you? He just skidding.

SPEAKER_03 15:31

I need to be strapped from the ground. I need to be strapped to a person from the parking lot. I know to down, yeah, the whole but it all just happened so fast, and then all of a sudden people are jumping. You're like, okay, there's one before me, two before me. Okay, I'm next. Yeah. But so they go, the the wife of the the honeymoon couple, the honeymoon couple goes, and right I had to talk to her after because it was so funny. But right after, like, when he went to rock and go out, she's like screamed really loud. So she like rocks back, and you hear her go, and the husband looks at me and he goes, Whoa. That was like, oh my that's when I'm like, okay, it's happening. And in my mind, I'm like, okay, it's happening in like the next 27 seconds. Yeah. Because they're all going out and it's taking about eight seconds each.

SPEAKER_05 16:14

Boom.

SPEAKER_03 16:14

When you're falling, are they all are you kind of all together or are they like way below you? They're way below you, which I've got your individual experience. Yeah, because I was I wanted to be a little bit more. Well, not individual, you've got your when we were actually falling, I was looking for them. Because I'm like, I want to see if I can find where everyone else is, and I couldn't until they open their chute. Oh, wow. Yeah. So then we get to the end, he rocks, he puts me out, and and it was it did feel weird at one point out of just reaction. I went like this, like to the side of the plane, because when we like sat on the edge, I was like out of the plane. And so then we we like he rocks and then we go out and like do a kind of like a flip, and then all of a sudden, like in my view, the plane like came back into my view, and it was just like fall like falling above. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

That I'm like imagining it right now.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

Yeah, the first like 10 seconds I think was like insane.

SPEAKER_01 17:02

Your stomach.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

Yeah, that's the part that scares me because you're like, I'm falling, I'm falling, yeah. But then actually, how long did it take for that to like? I would say like four or five seconds, it felt like you were falling, like on a on a ride, and then it like neutralized. Interesting. So then it was just like extreme wind. Okay, that's kind of like was it cold? Yeah, I bet cold, and you put your arms out like this, and everybody I put together was stretching, all the divers were stretching before. And I was the way the wind was like bending your body like a scorpion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was kind of like, whoa, this is like that could fuck your back up for sure.

SPEAKER_05 17:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:35

But it was great.

unknown 17:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 17:36

The one thing I wish I would have done is pop my ears earlier because when you're falling and the pressure was changing so fast that it started to ache a little bit. And then eventually I was like, Oh, I should just pop up.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

And then he pulled the chute, and then it was the chute. He pulls the chute, then it was extremely peaceful.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

Yeah. Then you're just looking at Hawaii from a drone's view.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

Yeah, that was. Um, what about pictures and video? Do we have that? I'm not done yet. We just pulled the chute. Oh. I'm just kidding. So then we glide around. He let me like drive. Yeah. He let me glide. He's like, Are you like a thrill seeker? I was like, Oh yeah. Look at I'm here, right? And he's like, You don't get motion sick? And I was like, No. And so he like yanks on the thing and we like go upside down and like spin down. It was cool. It was like G forces. I was like, it was cool, it was fun. He said he had someone throw up his mouth. Someone throw up his mouth the week before. Oh, how would you Jesus? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Okay, did they say, like, what happens if your dive partner is somehow incapacitated in those 10 seconds? Do they say, okay, here's the shoot. If anything happens to me, you gotta pull it here.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

No, and I didn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

I'm sure it's until you just so rare, but like, what if he conks his head on the way out and then he's just passed out? Wait, I didn't even think of that.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Seizure. The other thing I never asked, which I wish I would have thought to ask, is like, is there a point when you can still say no? Or is there a point, you know, like once you're once you're like slid to the end, like I said, they're pretty much pushing you out of the plane. Yeah, like you're going, there's no way down. So is there a point and do you have people freak out and say, like, absolutely, I'm not jumping out of this plane? And how often does that happen?

SPEAKER_01 19:05

I'm sure it happens weekly.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

Right. Weekly.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Because how many dives do you think he went on in that day?

SPEAKER_03 19:09

Six, four, five at least.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Yeah, seeing so many people, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:13

Yeah. But the parachute, yeah. The parachute part was really cool, peaceful, gorgeous. Landing was interesting too because it was just I'm tall. Yeah. So he's like, You're gonna have to give me like the highest knees you can give me.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_03 19:24

And so we practiced while we were doing it, and then we land and slid on our butt, and it was nice.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Okay. Did you see the bachelor skydiving landing where she gets really fucked up?

SPEAKER_03 19:33

No.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

I will watch it after this.

SPEAKER_03 19:35

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

It was Pilot Pete's season. They go skydiving on a date with someone, and like on the landing, whatever girl he was on a date with gets like it's all they aired it, the footage of her landing and like being fucked up by the landing.

SPEAKER_03 19:49

Yeah, like amazing. Is it amazing race? Where she well, which one is this watermelon? Just fucking nail her in the face. Amazing race. Amazing race, right in the kisser. Right in the kisser. Famously on our Instagram page. Yeah. Uh that one. Anyway, so what else? That was that was pretty much it. It was phenomenal. Loved it. What do again? How much was it? $199.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

Wait, that's so cheap.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

I know that's scarier. I'm like, that doesn't seem like enough.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

I thought it was a min $250 minimum.

SPEAKER_03 20:13

I thought it was like a $500 venture. $199. $200. Okay, well, now let's talk about the footage. I chose not to choose buy the footage because I didn't want to pay $100 plus extra dollars. So $100 for the price of the actual jump is the price to photo ratio is pretty much. It's crazy. Half the jump is a good one. Well, I think what happens is people just like have this amazing experience and they get to the bottom, and they're like, I want that footage. So it's like or they're so nervous, they're like, if I do this, I want the footage.

SPEAKER_01 20:41

Because it's the one time I'm gonna do it.

SPEAKER_03 20:42

Yeah, because I elected to not have the footage, and then when we were putting our stuff on, he was like, Is it okay if I film you? It's like you're not it's not like a you don't want to be filmed thing, right? If I don't want to film you, then I won't film you, but otherwise I will. So then they do it, and then it's available for me if we want it.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

And they offered you a discount already. And then they offered me a discount.

SPEAKER_03 20:59

Correct. What's our uh time limit? I don't know. It doesn't say it's a perpetual, it doesn't say can we wait till your birthday? I don't want it. So really, if we're buying it for birthday, it's gonna have to be for where I have to get it for it. Listen, we're starting a GoFundMe. We need $118 to pay for Tyler's both photos and video. My skydive footage for Ariel's birthday is what's gonna have to happen here. I just have the I have the I lived it. I lived it. You weren't kidding. I know. She's stinky, stinky, stinky. Actually, she's fishy, fishy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Glandy, glandy. But it was cool.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

It was really cool. The other thing that I learned, which totally makes sense and was really cool to watch, is the experienced skydivers have like performance shoots, so they're smaller and more maneuverable. He's like, ours is like we're like a big boat. Yeah, totally, totally, you know, going down, less maneuverability, things like that. These other ones, he's like, it's like a Ferrari. And so watching the from the ground right under them, watching the um filmers approach scooter, watching them approach at he said, We came in and we would land at like twenty, fifteen. 20 miles an hour when we actually like come down 50 to 60. Holy shit. They are going 50 to 60 until they like hit the ground. Get the ground off.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

You just burn your bum off.

SPEAKER_03 22:08

And it was loud. Right. The the name or like the sound, watching them come in and them like spiraling and maneuvering to hit the right spot. It was like Yeah, it was just like the that it was cool. So yeah, it was great. I would do it again. I think everyone should do it if they are open to it. I also don't think it's something everyone has to do, but uh it was a cool, very cool experience.

SPEAKER_01 22:30

I won't be doing it, but I was getting chills just you taking me through it.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

That's all I learned a lot.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

And I think once my guy realized that I was really interested, he was very like he called out loud everything that he's doing. He's like, okay, so we're reaching like this altitude. At this point, I'm gonna start like maneuvering us so we can approach at the correct side. Cool. So we're at this altitude, I'm gonna go like a big left, big right, and then really sharp left, and that's when we're gonna land.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:53

It was cool, it was fun. Thanks, Ryland. Um, I had a little bit of the opposite experience.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

I was gonna say, okay, what was your version of skydiving in India?

SPEAKER_03 23:01

Uh mine was more of less of the thrills, more of the chills. Good. Yeah, that's awesome. So it's really good. So I was in India for a conference and I was there for five nights, and I was pretty much stuck at the Sheraton Grand Bangalore Whitefield for pretty much all five nights. So I would not necessarily tell people that I experienced India by any means. Um, but it was really cool. And I will say, like, the hospitality in India is unmatched compared to anywhere I've ever been in my entire life.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 23:29

I mean, you're a hospitality nerd, so yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:32

And like everything is so cheap. Like you can say at the four seasons in India for like $150 a night, which normally would be like $500 a night minimum in the States.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

And expensive.

SPEAKER_03 23:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:41

Yes, but expensive for people that live there.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

Yes, totally. But it was great. I went to the spa and I had a massage.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 23:49

It was great. It was like open until 10 o'clock. So I just scheduled one on like one of my last nights at 8 30. Loved it.

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Full body?

SPEAKER_03 23:56

It was deep tissue, which I'd never done before, and damn.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

They got deep.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Was it what just two hands or was it two people working on you?

SPEAKER_03 24:04

One person.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

It hurts in like a good way.

SPEAKER_01 24:06

You have to breathe through it.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Well, I was thinking about it, and it kind of it's like not ticklish. Do you know when you're throwing up? Uh-huh. Do you know that feeling when you can't throw up anymore, but you like exert your like muscles are contracting and exerting your body? That's what a deep tissue massage feels like. But not in a bad way, but in like uh like I don't think it's for me then.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

And I don't think you like it because it's like read through the pain because it's worth it afterwards. If you have really bad nuts, that's like how you get them out. It's just gonna be 20 seconds of pain.

SPEAKER_03 24:36

If I am you don't think touch stomach flu, I will chug water between vomiting every single time. So I don't have to feel that feeling.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

I don't think it feels like that necessarily.

SPEAKER_03 24:45

I'm trying to like I it was like that part of your brain where like I remember this feeling and that's the closest I could get to. But it's like this like contracting of your body and body like pressure that like hurts, but like feels really good at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

It feels good once you're done with it.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but it was really nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Riddle me this because funny enough, I had a deep tissue massage today.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Yours was deep tissue as well. Okay. I've only ever done Swedish. This was my first deep tissue.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Riddle me this. You are go into the massage room, they're like, here you go, here's your sheet. Someone will be in in a second. Yeah. Do you get fully naked or are you keeping your underwear on? So this place because they didn't give me any instructions.

SPEAKER_03 25:23

Um, this one I always ask. Everyone I've always been to, they've been like, it's up to you. Because they know how to maneuver the towel so well anymore that they don't care. Because they are like either when they turn over, they pick it up like this and then have you turn over. And then when they're massaging you, they're just kind of like reaching under. So it's the same thing. Yeah, it's like a little bit of this. I will tell you they're just like so professional about it. So I always ask experience today. Okay. So I usually I don't think it is. I just listened to a podcast yesterday where they were talking about bad experience. I usually always wear just my underwear. Okay. But usually that was my third massage ever. So I asked her because they also give you disposable underwear, which in my mind, I guess, is like if you accidentally showed up without it, I didn't understand the purpose of the disposable underwear.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

If you didn't want to get oil and stuff on your underwear, because they use oils on you.

SPEAKER_03 26:05

Oh, that could be it. Yeah. That makes sense. Like you got nice shit, not nice underwear.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Yeah, totally. Yeah. Or you just want to put them back on a wearing for the rest of the day.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

Okay, what was your experience like?

SPEAKER_01 26:15

Well, similar to Isaac, I this is probably my like fourth massage of my life. It's like absolutely a luxury thing that I don't afford myself very often, but I have a new wellness stipend at work, and they just give you like a debit card with money on it, and they're like, go spend it. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna get a massage. And because I don't ever get a massage and it's such a luxury, I did go get an $80 massage for 60 minutes of massaging deep tissue. And that is an excellent price massage. So I knew I was gonna go get a no-frills experience, right? Because I would say your typical Seattle price for an hour massage is $150 minimum. So to find a place that does it for $80 in West Seattle, you're gonna get more of a bare bones experience. So I came in with like the right frame of mine, but there was just a couple of things that happened. I would call them quirks that made me laugh. I'm still gonna go back here. But the first one is the Masseusa's headphones are so loud I can hear her K drama happening in her ears the whole hour that she's working on me. Like she's listening to some sort of Korean drama. Oh, and so I'm like, I don't care. You what like listen to your TV show? Absolutely. Like you are massaging people all day. That's exhausting. So it doesn't really bother me as someone who's very good with the flow. The second one is someone else's phone in another part of the building is going off every few minutes with a Facebook notification.

SPEAKER_04 27:28

Yeah, I can get over that. It's no big deal.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

It's not pulling me out of the experience. The massage is still excellent. I would have to the part that was interesting.

SPEAKER_03 27:36

Get to the underwear, get to the undies.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

I did keep my underwear on, but I really didn't need to because she basically pulled them down for me.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

That's what mine did too. Like they pulled them down and like rubbed her buttons.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

And I was like, oh, my butt crack is out. She touched every part of my butt cheek with her hands on it.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

I had the same too. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

Then the craziest part was that she slapped it. I think she was getting warm in the room, and so she opens the door to our little massage room. Because at some point I'm like, I'm like, there's natural light coming into this windowless room. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

And I so I kind of like lean my head out and I can just see the front door, which are just glass windows. So if you were walking by this massage place during the hour after the massage, you would look in and see my side boob, my ass. Like the sheet's off of me. She didn't use the sheet much at all during the hour. I'm just naked. She pulled my panties down. She's doing an excellent massage, but honestly, next time I go, I need you to walk by the massage parlor and see if you can see my side.

SPEAKER_03 28:29

Hey, everybody in here, we got a sideshow.

SPEAKER_01 28:32

I was also like, I wonder if they locked the doors because they take walk-ins. I was like, I wonder if they locked the doors on my way out. Nope. Those doors are open.

SPEAKER_03 28:39

Is she the only one it's advertising working?

SPEAKER_01 28:40

No, there were multiple massages because I walked in with another lady who also had a two o'clock.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

So I was like, this feels vulnerable.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Yeah. That is so funny.

SPEAKER_01 28:48

It was a great massage, and for $80, I'll take it.

SPEAKER_03 28:51

Yeah. Mine was mine was a little bit more private experience, I will say. And it was very nice. How much? I think it came out to be like 60 bucks. Damn. It's wild, and everything is so inexpensive. And also, again, the service. Like, so you go to breakfast, which is included in your room, and it's like better than any Vegas buffet you could imagine, which I would say Vegas buffets are pretty top-notch or well known. Yeah. But just like so many, a million different kinds of food. And then the chef comes around every morning and then they're like talks to you? Yeah, it gives you their card and they're like, Hey, are you coming back tomorrow morning? And you're like, Yeah, actually, I'm gonna be here till Thursday. So I'm going back three days after that, too. And they're like, Great, like, what do you want? Do you want me to cook something up? And I'm like, Well, I've never been here before. So yeah, like I want to like try like what's like traditional breakfast. And she was like, Oh my god, yeah, like I'll whip you something up. Just let me know when you get here, what time you're gonna be here tomorrow, what's the room number?

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Amazing. Yeah. What's something that you tried there that you loved?

SPEAKER_03 29:38

Many things. They have, I think it's called dieso. I think it's dieso. It's like a pancake, but it's made out of like rice and a few other things. I'll fact check you. I think it's D E S O, but it's like this huge pancake and they roll it up, it's almost like a crepe, and then you like dip it in things. So that was probably one of the best things. I mean, everything, every type of curry. Um yeah, the food was really good. Yum. Which I'm not like super experienced with Indian food, and to be honest, dosas. It's called the dosa. Wow, it looks like a crepe. Yeah, that's what you just said on it.

SPEAKER_01 30:08

It's a thin, crispy, savory crepe, South Indian cuisine.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yeah, no, it's super good.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

It's made of rice, lentils, and fermentation.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

I would say it definitely improved my opinion and taste for Indian food. I just get tired of it because it is a lot of the like same.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

No, you just need to experience different things. There's so many different regions of Indian.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

But it's the same thing. It's just like you're talking about it's like a rice. Different taste, yeah, like spice are very similar. Some sort of pinny. I could eat naan, I could eat naan every day. Yeah, I did love that. And also take my hands.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Americanized Indian from the few places you've been to in Montana are giving you the best.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

I've never been a Montana either. That's never they do nothing. How could that be? How could that be?

SPEAKER_01 30:46

How could this have happened?

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Um, how did you get this photo? You guys, I have to tell you about that.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

So you'll notice. Did you notice on my skydiving picture? Sorry, are we done with India? Yeah. No, go ahead. Sorry. Yeah, we know we're done. Let's go back to skydiving.

SPEAKER_01 31:00

You were saying something.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

Sorry. No, it's fine. Keep going. Okay. Something that's been really tickling me and I can't get over this week. It's so dumb. But Lex, so I told Lex that I was going skydiving and she She's gleaming down there right now. I know. She's sitting downstairs. I told Lex that I was going skydiving, and I was like, have you ever been? She's like, Yeah. She sends me her photo that she posted on Instagram of her skydiving. Yes. And somebody, so somebody commented on this photo, and it it just says, How did you get this photo? As if, like, like they didn't know it was a setup. Yeah. As if, as if like Lex took her phone up into the sky and like selfie did it or something.

SPEAKER_01 31:41

It happened to be a drone.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Yeah, or something.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

How could this be?

SPEAKER_03 31:45

How did you get this photo? I have no idea. Google Earth was doing that right in the precise moment. So it's become it was this week, because I was alone all week. It was like a literally an inside joke for myself. Because every time I would like see someone's cool picture on Instagram, I'd go, How did you get this photo? And I could not stop laughing about it. I probably sent it via voice memo four times to Lex this week. It's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:08

So anyway, did you bring us any souvenirs? I actually brought a lot. Did you? Because I get so much conference swag. So I wouldn't. Is there anything that you picked out and you were like, they will like this, and you like got us something that's not again. I was at the Sheraton Grand Banglaro Hotel for 95% of my time. So you have to have boutique shops in there. I didn't really see a single store. Okay, well, I got you guys a couple things that I just remembered. So I'm gonna go rally. Okay, go give them.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Oh my god.

unknown 32:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

Who wants to go first?

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Ariel.

SPEAKER_01 32:38

Okay. Gimme gimme.

SPEAKER_03 32:42

Start with bowl.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

Is it macarons? Coasters.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

Okay, those are cute.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

I love Cork Coaster moments. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 32:52

Locally made.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Made in the code.

SPEAKER_03 32:54

I made sure it was not.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

I'm just kidding.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Shut up. I was like, no way. Okay, and then also. Okay, that's pretty. That's gorgeous. Oh my god. A coconut bowl. That's actually really cool.

SPEAKER_01 33:08

Oh, look at all the shell in there. It's Babylonian.

SPEAKER_03 33:10

Figured it kind of fit with your vibe. Your tacky vibe that you like. Absolutely. It's not tacky at all. I love it. Yeah, it's the yeah, it's kind of your style, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

Good. All right. Everyone can use a key bowl, right?

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Oh, yeah. Everyone can use a key bowl. For all of our key parties.

SPEAKER_03 33:28

Exactly. Okay, Isaac. For you. Here you go. Oh my god, that's beautiful. Thank you. It's a black tungsten ring with coa wood in it. Nice. When you were in Hawaii, did you see like there's coa wood everywhere? Yeah, things. Well, when I was nine, so I don't remember. Yeah. So got you that. I noticed also today you didn't have your ring on. Where's your ring at? It's in my bag. Oh, cool. Why wasn't it on? It's always in my bag. And not on your finger. Usually I go to the gym at the freaking shimmedig. When was the last time you went into the gym? Right before I got on the airplane. Oh, well. Can't hurt ever to give Isaac another ring because he's already lost two. I have only lost one ring. So two what I like to say is two down forever to go. This is really nice.

SPEAKER_01 34:09

This one's really nice.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

But this one, I mean, I just couldn't resist that one.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Did you know his ring size? You must.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

So I love. Thank you. Yeah. That one's really fun.

SPEAKER_01 34:17

Okay. Speaking of rings, what are we talking about today, boys?

SPEAKER_03 34:23

Okay, let's put it into today's episode. So today we actually met with our friend Adam, who's one of our new friends and has just moved into White Center. So he's a friend in the neighborhood. And we had a really great sit-down with Adam, who's recently been going through a divorce for the last year. So one of the topics that we really wanted to address and tackle was just people always talk about gay marriage and fight for gay marriage, and of course, but then the reality of that is also comes with gay divorce.

SPEAKER_01 34:47

And Adam's gay.

SPEAKER_03 34:48

And Adam's gay. And Adam was a listener. Yes. We met Adam through being a listener. Yeah, we met Adam through being a listener of the pod and kind of like connected over that. Yep. And then have become friends with him since. Yeah. We're hosting a party with him tomorrow. We're hosting a party. Yeah. Hell yeah. White Center Pride. Yeah. Um, so, anyways, yeah, we're really excited for this one. Um, I'm gonna pre-warn everybody that it's so good that we did it in two parts. So, this is actually gonna be part one. So, I think we should just get into it.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

I can't wait to hear.

SPEAKER_03 35:14

All right, here we go. I listened to another podcast and they're kind of they're like low level, mid-level, I would say, celebrity. They were on like a reality show together. Now they have a podcast. D List. D List, and it was Hannah and Paige. Oh, they're D. What are we? Z. Z.

SPEAKER_02 35:33

You're not on a list. Yeah, there's anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 35:35

One of them, one of them is like doing a she got asked to be in a Super Bowl commercial. Really? Who? Yeah, Paige. That's got that's fun.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

I know like as an extra.

SPEAKER_03 35:44

I think yeah, she has like a small part in a Super Bowl commercial, but she was like, I was kind of like going back and forth on it, and then I thought, what is a singular platform that every single one of my exes is gonna see at the exact same time? Oh, she was like, Super bowl commercial, yeah. So I want a conversation to be had by every single one of my ex's families on that day. I mean, like, your ex is on a Super Bowl commercial commercial, yeah, you idiot, and you're here on my fucking couch. Yeah. I was like, that's a good point, Paige. Okay, welcome, Adam. We're super excited to have you. How are you? What's new? How's your 2026 starting? Pretty shitty, like everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

I don't know. Yeah, I feel like everyone is like, oh yay, we're over with 2025. And then it was like, no, right into it, like out of the frying pan into the fire kind of situation. Yeah. Yeah, I uh I found out I might be a Canadian citizen. That's just a super valuable thing. If you were if there's like an unbroken kind of line to that Canadian relative, my grandma was Canadian, she had my dad. So, but she had him in the US, which meant that like in old Canadian law, you weren't a citizen. Right. But they changed that. And so now you can kind of retroactively apply. And it's not even like you have to go through citizenship tests and stuff, it's like you have to apply for like your passport. You just like fill out the paperwork. You fill out the paperwork and then they say, like, are you like yes or no? And then they like send you like all of the stuff for that's great news. Yeah, I know. I was like, wow, just in time just in case. Would you do it? I don't know. I've been having talking, uh, this is kind of like a dark subject, but like I've been talking with friends about like where's your red line? Oh yeah, yeah. No, we've had the same conversation. Like where, like what, like when would you piece out? Yeah, my job is like so dependent on location, yeah. And so like being here, like and involved in politics. Yeah, and so uh it would be hard to do, but like I don't know. I'm like, maybe if we don't have the midterms I'm piecing out, yeah. Like that's like then it's like, yeah, it's really done, or like I don't know. I've heard a lot of people's red line is like if they overturn same-sex marriage at the Supreme Court, yeah, yeah. Which I mean, it's really interesting conversation.

SPEAKER_03 38:08

Especially in the like, like I I feel like I live in a small liberal country of Seattle. Yeah. You know what I mean? But then like anytime we go home or anytime we like travel other places or anytime we read the news, obviously we're looking at the country holistically. Yeah. But then we've had very many conversations like, what would it take to be like, no, we're leaving?

SPEAKER_05 38:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:26

I said if Trump found a way to get elected again or be able to run again. I was like, well, yeah. What about no election?

SPEAKER_02 38:33

Yeah, I think that's more likely at this point.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 38:38

Well, he's joking about it, and that's like the creepiest part, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Yeah, I just read a thing that's like, it's kind of like your classic cartoon where the villain haphazardly tells you their plan before they do their plan.

SPEAKER_02 38:47

Yeah, which has happened like every single thing that they've like done is like, oh, we're just kind of joking about that, or it's like a trial balloon, and then well, no, now they're kind of just doing it.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Yeah. No, you mean no midterm or no presidential? Both. I hadn't heard that yet. I think that's been in the I mean, there's like obviously the big dark plot where it's like he could pull us into such like a international disaster, whether it's like or whatever it is, that he can enact like a we can't have an election because of dire times. Like what's happening. Yeah, I see. So yay. So Canadian citizens.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

So anyway, 2026, off to a great start. Yeah.

unknown 39:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:25

Okay. So Adam, let's want to dive into a little bit about you. Obviously, we know you. We kind of met through the podcast a little bit, actually. I remember like DMing with you about the podcast when we first met, but you are originally from Seattle area. Yeah. Is that what you've been saying? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Uh my great-grandparents moved to Seattle from Norway, which is kind of a classic Seattle degree. They lived like actually like, I don't know, like a mile or two from where we are right now. Oh, really? And so my mom grew up in Seattle, uh, went to school here. I was born in Bellevue and grew up in Maple Valley out in the suburbs.

SPEAKER_03 39:58

Nice. So yeah. So do you consider that like small town, or did you always feel like pretty tied to Seattle? Like, do you feel like you grew up in a city or a small town?

SPEAKER_02 40:06

I didn't feel tied to Seattle. Seattle was like a place we like very occasionally went to that had like great food. Yeah. School shopping? Yeah. Well, no, I mean, like we there's plenty of shopping in the burbs. Yeah, I guess that's true.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

Well, we had to go to school can, so like we would literally go three hours to do school shopping in school can. I lived in the big city. You had oh, you only had a you barely had a Walmart at that time. You had a Macy's, yeah. We did. Dillard's, yeah. Dillard's, oh my gosh. Yeah. Okay, so you grew up in Seattle area. Yep. One question I always want to ask guests is like, obviously, where from Montana, what is your perception of Montana? What was your perception of Montana? What's your perception now?

SPEAKER_02 40:46

So I actually traveled to Montana. My aunt lived in Whitefish. Yep. Took a train over there. Yeah, you did like the all the way across. Yeah, on track. Yeah. And it was so fun. The most like a memorable thing for me was that like we found moose poop. Like okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:06

So it's like that's like a kid, you're like, oh my god. Whoa, that's the biggest pile of shit I've ever seen.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

But yeah, I uh didn't really have a sense of of Montana, other than it just being like kind of a little bit more like of a wild place, uh like uh un unsettled or like yeah uh the Wild West. Yeah, yeah. I grew up in a skiing family, so a lot of like I didn't actually I've never been skiing in Montana, but yeah, people talked about it all the time. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

Yeah, it's kind of funny because it's like where I started skiing, so then you kind of like you started one of the greatest places, I feel like, for skiing in North America. So then other people that come from the East Coast or like went to school at Montana State go skiing there, and they're like, No, you don't understand. Like ours was like a grass hill, yeah, with thick snow on it.

SPEAKER_02 41:50

They're like uh at one point when my dad worked for Boeing when they moved their corporate headquarters to Chicago. Oh yeah. And um, he like was he got an offer to move there, and my parents went and like investigated Chicago, and they were like, we need to go to the ski resort near Chicago because we want to see what we're getting into. And it was like literally a garbage dump that they had put a chairlift on. Like it was literally a garbage dump that they had covered over with dirt and then put like a chairlift on for skiing. Yeah. And so they were like, We're not moving to Chicago, guys. Okay, so they expect you. That's how I feel about Seattle though. Uh, in terms of like, you know, people come there and they're like, oh my god, this is a really great place. So like I've only ever lived in Washington. And so I'm like kind of like, you know, people from elsewhere come here and stay here because they love it so much. And I'm like, okay, that just reinforces that like this is kind of my place.

SPEAKER_03 42:45

So yeah, yep. Okay, I think we'll probably get into today's topic. We de we want to talk about divorce because we felt like it was like such a not a taboo topic, but it's just not talked about, and it's definitely not talked about in any sort of like queer sense because I feel like it's kind of the next phase, right? Of rights is almost is like we've we've spent so much time fighting for marriage equality, but it's like also at the same time that also comes with the reality of divorce and the stigma and the concepts behind it. And also, I think we just we have gotten to know you over the last year, and you're just like a very thought-provoking, well-spoken, but like fun, funny. And we felt like it was a great opportunity for us to talk about your experience over the last year to however much time of your life, and like not in a depressing way, but can be if we go there, but also just like the realities of divorce in the fun divorce. Yeah, it's what's we're gonna talk about fun divorce today. Talk about how fun divorces. But I think to get us started, I I wanted to kind of talk about like what was everyone's perception of marriage growing up, and divorce or just marriage? Just that let's start with marriage.

SPEAKER_05 43:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 43:45

My perception of marriage was that's what you did. There was like no, like you're constantly fighting toward not fighting, but working toward marriage. It was like a concept where like once you get married, then your life starts. Yeah. Was kind of like The way I looked at it, I think. And like in my family, marriage is was obviously very common. Everyone was all the adults were married.

SPEAKER_02 44:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:07

For the most part. Like I have one uncle that hasn't has never been married. But other than that, like everybody I looked up to and everybody I was surrounded with that was of adult age was married. Yeah. Always. Like an inevitability. Yeah. Like it was like everyone had their time and it just happened. Yeah. You just got married. Yeah. It was like an anomaly if someone wasn't married and it would you'd be like, oh, that's different. Yeah. That's unique. Yeah. All on your own. How special. Yeah. Like it truly was. It was like you grow up, you go to school, you go to college, which is literally what all my aunts and uncles and parents did. And then you then you get married. And when you get married, that's when your life like starts, essentially. Yeah. It was kind of my perception. It was just an inevitable, a given.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

Yeah. I think it was the same for me, but also like an extra layer like of like religious. Yeah. So I was gonna say both of you have religious upbringings. And it was like anything that had to do with sex, like marriage was like a gate to that. Yeah. Because like you could you were essentially a non-sexual person until you got married. And then it's everything that you thought about sex was allowed. Yeah. And so Yeah, that's so true. Adam was just like, I cannot wait to get married. Well, I mean, there's tons of people out there who got married like because they're they just wanted to have sex.

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Like, and that's obviously a terrible reason to get married.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

But or they uh ooh got sex or had sex and got pregnant. Pregnant and then got married. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you had to.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Yeah. But it was definitely an inevitability kind of thing. It was like, you know, graduating high school. There was like no question in my family because everyone did it, and like go to college. Like it was just it was on your trajectory of things.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

Yeah. I think for me it was like it was the climax for lack of a better term of life. Like it was like the peak was when you got married. Because I feel like we're it's so like shoved down our throats that like it's the happiest day of your life, it's the best thing that'll ever happen to you. Your whole life is around the partner you pick. And then not so much when life started, but I thought it was like the peak. And then the rest was like not downhill, but just like a coast. Yeah. And I think that everyone grew up, like everyone was married. And so I just really thought it was like the peak of life. And so, like, it was kind of like my perception of the timeline of life was like zero to 25. And then after that, nothing mattered because it was just working towards that pinnacle, and then the rest, it like was just it just kind of happens. You just like have kids, and then you just like coast the rest through it. That's kind of mine. Very ingrained. I have a friend, and this is a side, but I have a friend from high school, and I you know who you are, she listens. But I was visiting her a couple years ago, and this like kind of took me back a little bit because I'd not really thought about it. But our generation is so much more like if you get married, you do, that's great, but not everyone needs to get married, like it shouldn't be your ultimate end goal for life. And she was like, one thing I really appreciate about you and Isaac as friends that I've had for a very long time is you've never, when I we visit each other or see each other, you've never like made me feel like I'm behind because I'm not married. She's like, because she hasn't really dated much, and it's just like never been a part of her path thus far.

SPEAKER_02 47:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:06

And she was like, I I'm really appreciative of your friendship because all like a lot of other people, the first thing they ask, if they're from earlier in high school, like if they're high school friends or family, their first thing is like, Are you dating anyone? And that's like never your guys' like go-to or what you're trying to figure out when you see me.

SPEAKER_02 47:23

Well, I think that kind of goes back to like even the inevitability thing because it's like there's so many people who I feel like make their marriage like almost their personality. And then those are the people who like are uncomfortable when people are single. Yeah, because they're still what to do. Yeah, they don't know what they're like they have no relation point because they've kind of made their whole lives about their marriage. Yeah. Yeah, which I think is a thing that happens when you go into marriage thinking like it's an inevitability. Then you're like, why is this person an outlier?

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

Whereas like, you know, the difference with being gay is that like we're already outliers. There's no pressure. And so we kind of take that pressure off of it, I think, a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 48:02

But from a from a heterohoop heterose person's perspective, they would look at that and be like, oh well, he's gay. So it's a little bit harder to like go and fewer and far between. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. So on the flip side of that, what was your with that in mind, what was your perception of divorce? Uh no.

SPEAKER_02 48:20

Yeah, don't what? Divorce under no circumstances.

SPEAKER_03 48:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:24

Yeah, I don't know. I gay divorce is totally fine, but yeah. Yeah. No, uh they had it coming, approved. It was never right in the first place. Yeah. Uh, but yeah, I think it was just like a anyone who was divorced in my church growing up, like almost immediately became a pariah. Yeah. And so it was like a shunning that happened. And I was Presbyterian.

SPEAKER_03 48:47

So like that wasn't even like was it like a quiet shunning, or was the church like, you can't go here anymore?

SPEAKER_02 48:53

Well, like when so my parents got divorced when I was a senior in in uh high school at the end of my senior year, and like literally their entire friend group was all church people. Yeah. And they they enti in every single one of them like said, you can't, like, you can't sit with us, essentially. Yeah. Like to my parents, like friendships that they had had for like, you know, 15 years. Okay. Like dissolved immediately when they because like I think it it challenges like multiple layers of like people's personalities uh when people get divorced, because it's like it's almost like a contagion. They're worried about a contagion happening, like that there's some dark stain on these people. And then like if they're in our group now, then other people are gonna be thinking about divorce or like I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 49:44

There's or like I feel like people are like, how could like what went wrong?

SPEAKER_02 49:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:49

And I think how are they not able to fix it? Yeah, how are they not able to fix it? Like, how did that go wrong? Or what did they not know when they got married that they should have known already? Yeah. Is another thing. Like, how do they there's things that came up that they should have already like worked through or they should have never got married? Whereas, like, it's just like you just grow as people and things just change. That's like a whole part of marriage and being with someone too. Yeah, but yeah, I think too. So I have a question. Do you have you have siblings, right?

SPEAKER_02 50:16

Yeah, older brother, younger sister.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Okay, interesting. How much younger is your sister?

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Three years, my brother's three years older.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

I asked because I felt like we also grew up in what people would probably call like the divorce epidemic, where it was like all of a sudden, like everyone's parents were getting divorced. That's the name of the episode, right? There, and I think it's honestly. But with that, did you feel like there was also this movement by parents that were like, if we just can get them to 18 and through college and just do the operations of this marriage, then we can get divorced. Yes. And I feel like there was a lot of couples and families that I knew that it was like their kids were like really approaching graduation age and they kind of could just like couldn't do it anymore. So it either happened right at that time or like coming home from college the first time was like the conversation of them being like, We're getting a divorce. Yeah. And I feel like I know lots of people where that happened.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

Yeah, I don't know if it's like there's probably so many factors, but I feel like kids can sometimes be like marriage glue. Exactly. In like maybe not the most healthy way, because then you're probably like as a kid, you're probably seeing your parents like, I don't know, like not have the healthiest relationship if they're just doing it for the kids. I'm very much like, don't ever like say I'm just doing it for the kids because like you're not probably modeling what a healthy relationship actually looks like right to your kids, and like that sets them up for failure in the future.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

So it's just like this idea of sacrifice and it all it's all to make your kids' lives better. And it's just like, but you're kind of there's such a risk of setting uh what message are you telling them? Well, yeah, sending a message that like your happiness is not important. What's important is that your kids' happinesses are, and that's something that they do and then carry on in their own relationships or can. Yeah. So I don't know. I was just curious about that, but I think that's I feel like that was common too. And there's always rumors, like, oh well, the rumor is so-and-so and so-and-so are gonna like call it quits once the kids are out of the house. Yeah, once kids are gone, they're they're not gonna make it. I remember just having conversations with adults because I was kind of like really young in my family, and my sisters were seven, eight years older. So I feel like a lot of my growing up was dinner conversations with adults, being like by myself and know their kids, and it was stuff like that where it's like, wow, I don't, I just it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens when the kids are out of the house. And those kind of conversations. Because it was just like a way to like they could just put it in this box and not face it or not. Well, you're like so busy doing other priorities. Yeah. When you're raising kids, for sure. It just like gives you a little bit of a crutch to lean on and be like, if we just focus on this, we don't have to actually focus on the like fractures in our relationship.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

I feel like, yeah, I definitely think that's that's a thing that people do to I don't know, limp along their marriage.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

For me, divorce was extremely uncommon. And if it happened, it was talked about. Yeah. It was like this stain, like you said, where it was like, oh, did you hear? Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's such a shame. Oh my god. Well, they say, like, they say like of the top five biggest life travesties, I don't know what you call it. It's like losing your job, death of a significant other family member, spouse, not losing your job, specifically getting fired, and then death of a family member, divorce, and then your house burning down, or like in the top four or five. I would have known of like the hardest like physic like human experiences to go through in life. They always list like those four. I'll find the fifth. The fifth is probably bankruptcy. Oh check.

SPEAKER_02 53:47

That sounds that sounds released. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 53:49

What about you? It was so uncommon for me. And I also came from divorce. Yeah. I think it was common, but I don't remember everyone, I don't remember anyone parents going through divorce. I just remember my friends had divorced parents and my friends had parents that weren't divorced. And it was kind of like they all kind of it happened when they were really young, and so I only ever knew them with like divorced parents. I had one really. And it was constantly like conversation around like, oh, I'm gonna be at my dad's house this weekend, I'm gonna be at my mom's house this weekend, or that kind of stuff. And it was just like a to me, it always seemed just like a I didn't have a lot of like religious aspect to it. So just like, oh, that's a different family dynamic. You have four parents. This is really immature and fucked up, but I had let's hear it. I had one of my best friends, and I think we were probably in fourth or fifth grade. His parents went through a divorce, and they were like the talk of like our we had a really close uh neighborhood. Yeah. Talk of the neighborhood. Yeah, some people were friends with the dad, some people were friends with the mom, the mom moved out, it was just like a really big deal. Yeah, tumultuous, tumul very tumultuous. So I kind of and I witnessed a lot of it because we were always at each other's houses, and like throughout the process, I'd be at his house and they would be dropping off or like picking things up and just like fighting and yelling upstairs, and we were all just like, holy shit. But I remember this is the fucked up part. I remember being I'm waiting. I remember being jealous of certain things, like You're not gonna say two Christmases, are you? Things like that, yeah. Or like he could he could get like whatever he wanted because they're trying to manipulate each other, one yes, like one parent would one parent would take him to Disneyland, and so the other parent would be like, Well, I need to do something on biomaturity. Yeah, it was it was very like classic, stereotypical, like he kind of got whatever he wanted or was just like extremely spoiled because they would just kind of throw stuff at him. Yeah, so you met your parents and said, Mom, dad, have you considered divorce? Yeah, yeah, just a thought looks like it's going for us kids. Looks like it's going great down the street. Yeah, it's going great down the street. I just want to think about it. I think everyone could be happy. Yeah, no, but I just remember certain things, which is so fucked up, to be like, wow, he's getting a lot of material things, Tyler. Might need to cut that out. No, you're I'm gonna make you leave that in. Oh god. Okay. So then Adam, I think we should go a little bit into your story. Yeah. So the loaded question of us tell us about your ex relationship, how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:12

So Which is probably like, tell us about your I mean how long were you together?

SPEAKER_02 56:16

Uh we were together for 15 years.

SPEAKER_03 56:18

Okay, so tell us quickly, your 15 years if you just wrap it up. High level. Beginning to end.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

No, that's insane. Uh we met at a birthday party, like the old-fashioned gay way. Classic. And uh we were I think I was not had just turned 22. Okay. So just a little baby gay. Old straight, baby gay. Wait, pause really quick. When did you come out? Uh I came out when I was 19, I think, or 20, late 19, early 20.

SPEAKER_03 56:50

Okay. So, like I had only freshman year of college.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

College, yes. Yeah, end of end of freshman year of college.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So he went home, his parents said, we're getting a divorce. Adam said, Well, I'm gay. Honestly, yes.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

It was a major factor. Yeah. My brother actually was getting a divorce at this time too. Okay. And so I felt like I wasn't the only like black sheep, you know. This is my time. This is a great time to get this happening. Oh, while you guys are doing this, I'm also gay.

SPEAKER_03 57:17

While we're all hanging up our laundry, let's just do it together. Well, I had a Christmas card that year.

SPEAKER_02 57:21

It was a great there were two Christmas cards.

SPEAKER_03 57:24

Yeah. On the back it just says in fine print, oh yeah, Adam's gay.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

Adam was gay. He came out. Uh yeah, but it was uh it actually honestly was like perfect timing. Yeah, yeah, because there was just too much stuff going on in everyone's life for anyone to be really concerned about what was happening in everyone else's life. So both my parents were pretty supportive when I came out. So yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

That's good. Okay. So then you're fast forward two years.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

Uh and we kind of just had like a classic, you know, early dating story. Couple dates, uh, you know, turn into like a couple months, turns into like I think about a year in, we moved in together. Uh and I don't know, kind of you just you're 22. I looking back, I'm like, now I look at 22 year olds and that crazy.

SPEAKER_03 58:15

Oh my god. We just had this moment too. Child bride. Someone told us that eight. I met him when I was eight we got married, and I'm like, which I felt like I guess I was 30, so it felt fine, but like which by our generation. When we were engaged, you gave the engaged number, and I was like, what the fuck were we doing? It was 25. But it felt so normal at the time, right? And honestly, behind, because all of our friends were straight at the time, so it was like they were like on their first kid. Yeah. It's like, oh shoot. Yeah. Anyway, child brides.

SPEAKER_02 58:39

So uh we were together for five years before we got married. So we met in uh 2010, got married in 2015, so right after like same-sex marriage. Literally, yeah, same year. But we had same-sex marriage earlier in Washington, yeah, by like about a year. Yep. And uh I was actually in the legislature when uh working in the legislature when they passed uh sex marriage here in Washington, and that was like probably the highlight of working in the legislature.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:10

I just remember like going back to my office and like crying. Yeah, my gosh. Just because like damn, what a moment.

SPEAKER_03 59:15

Yeah, like a button or a flag or something when something like that happens. Someday I think you can program these to whatever you want. Yeah. You bet a word. Every time. No. Okay, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 59:26

But yeah, I mean, like it's it'll it was really emotional when that happened. Like marriage was like a thing that like I feel like generations of people had been like of our like gay four four parents, like had been fighting for.

SPEAKER_03 59:42

And so plus you were in it, like you were both getting married, plus this thing was happening at the same time. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

We uh got married in 2015. I we actually the governor signs uh pieces of legislation with multiple pens, usually, and then hands those pens out to the people who uh like sponsored the legislation or who it was really important for. Uh, one of the legislators who uh who had uh a pen gave it to me afterwards. Yeah. One of the Republicans who voted for this is like back in the day when Republicans voted for marriage equality. Yeah, and he gave it to me, and we actually used that to sign our marriage license.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:22

Holy shit. Damn.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:24

That's not come up in the last year that we've known you.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

Yeah, no. That's cool. Yeah, it's a it's a cool story. But yeah, we had like a an amazing wedding, and I know you already said this, but uh it actually like I think it still is and maybe will be like the best day of my life. Yeah. Um even now that we're in the process of getting divorced. It's I don't know, it's just uh uh it was a nice affirmation that like your family and your friends like support you. Yep. Yes. And it was also a little bit of a party. So that's kind of another.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

It's like very much this culmination of like this like I'm gonna be more than okay. I'm gonna like thrive. And I have all these people that like both as individuals and a couple, but I feel like on our wedding day, it was like, oh, all of our biggest fears about just being gay, not nothing to do with marriage, yeah, like went away. And they were like ultimately, like, we're gonna be okay. Even with the people that weren't there that didn't support us or whatever, it was like, damn, it was such like a visual, yeah. Yeah. That I think was our biggest fear. Just being gay growing up, is like no one's gonna be there. Yeah, no one's gonna support this. And what and like the thing that day was marriage, but it was like anything in life. It was like no one's gonna support me, no one's gonna support this.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:38

Yeah. And I think uh, you know, we we were arguing for such a long time as a community of why we needed marriage and not just like domestic partnerships. Yeah, I feel like that feeling is it. Yeah, like that feeling of like a community support around your marriage is something that's like really meaningful. Um community is just such a meaningful thing, like for humans. And I think marriage is just like a very strong uh connection to like that kind of old throwback to community that we kind of are all losing as a society right now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:15

Let's put that on the side, we'll write that down for the next episode. Yeah, that's losing community as a society. Does not take. Yeah. Okay, so then you get married.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:24

Get married. Uh we were married for 10 years, and uh yeah, I mean, I think you do so much growing in your 20s, like it's just wild how different of people you can become, and there's so many opportunities for you to become different people as you go through your 20s, jobs, uh just you know change change in what you want, beliefs, philosophy, like yeah, friends so much friends, uh so many different factors, and uh yeah, I mean like I think one of the one of the things that like kept us together so long is that we like like doing you know interesting, fun like projects together, building, building, like literally, and also I don't know, it's like the uh a kind of a teamwork y kind of thing that we that we had for a really long time that that kept us together. And then I think also time kind of keeps you together. Yeah, the more time you're together, like the harder it is to think about what it would be like exactly if they you didn't have them.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:41

Yeah, where you're just like I've invested so much in this, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:44

It's a little bit of like a sunk cost fallacy, yeah. Yeah, I've been in this for 15 years, so might as well keep going. And I feel like a lot of marriages like are running on that fume.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:56

Yeah, yeah. Or I feel like you think about what would it take for me to get back to this spot later in life? Like it's taken so much time in my life. Yeah, like I'm not gonna do it again. The investment. Yeah, I think it's kind of similar to coming out. Like when I was when I was coming out, it was like I could do it, but there's like zero guarantee that I will be in a better place or happier than what I'm in now. And I feel like there's a lot of people in relationships that are they're like, I've been doing this for 20 years, two days, whatever it is. And they're like, I'm comfortable here. Am I happy? No. But the thought of not having this person or like what that that unknown, the uncomfortable how uncomfortable the unknown is, is so much scarier, I think. And so they're like, Well, I'm just gonna sit in it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Yeah. And and that was like, you know, high level ultimately the tipping point for me. Yeah. It was like I'm actually like less not scared, but I guess the the un the thought of the unknown is like the lesser of two evils in this situation, yeah. Of like staying in something that I am it's not working for me. Yeah. Or like starting fresh, like from scratch, essentially. Yeah. After 15 years. And like, I don't know, I think it's like you, I was 22, so like I grew up in the context of my relationship. So I'm like, what like where, like, who am I? Who would I be without this?

SPEAKER_03 1:05:22

Would I be a completely different person?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:24

Like which parts of this did I were me, or which parts of these were like compromises that I made in the marriage, or yeah, like things that I liked to do only in the context of my marriage, or things that I just like to do naturally, and and even down to like what do I want my like aesthetic to be? Yeah, like in my house, like in my apartment.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:45

There's not this like check anymore of being like, Oh, I don't like that, but I do like that. But I like so you have to like develop this style together.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:52

And then it's like, what is my own?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:54

What yeah, what is it? And uh yeah, even down to like, what do you eat for dinner? Like, I It's mind boggl like that was such a crazy thing after the decision to leave. Was like you I don't have to check with anyone about what's for dinner. Like I don't know how like it's just such a small thing, but it happens every day. Yeah, maybe multiple times a day. Like, what do you want to eat? Yeah. Yeah. Uh and I you I don't have to ask that question anymore. Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:22

The micro decisions we go through every single day as a married couple that you just don't even think about. That I'm sure you're like every single reminder, every single day as you're going through this right now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:31

Being like, wow. It goes through a filter, a filter of your relationship, a filter of your marriage, a filter of what the other person wants or doesn't want. Yeah. Yeah. That was uh 15 years. We didn't quite make it to 15 years, but I mean technically we did because we're not divorced yet, but yeah, very much going through the process.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:49

Stay tuned. Yeah. Stay tuned. What about like what about the process over like the realization that you think that was the the the option or a real option? Like did you have like a time when you're like, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:01

Yeah. So I've heard I've heard from a lot of different people like about this now. Cause I've as you're going through major life things, it kind of like a little bit becomes part of your personality. Yeah. Um, because it's like everyone's it's the first thing everyone asks. But a lot of people are like, oh, I thought about it for a really long time before I made the decision to leave. And for me, it wasn't really like that. I think it was like a slow erosion instead of like an event horizon kind of thing where we reached a point and it just like blew up or explosion. And yeah, it's like uh it was just like a creeping thought. And we did like couples therapy for like several years at the end of our marriage, and I did like personal therapy towards the end of our marriage, and I like learned so much about myself and my ex, like during that process that kind of like made me realize that like this wasn't working, right? But like it's you know, when you're 22, you don't you don't know what your attachment style is, you don't know, you know, what kind of baggage you're bringing to your relationship, like you have no idea. Like I didn't uh know that for the first you know 10 years of our relationship, what kind of stuff I was bringing. I just thought I was like, you know, just I don't know, you don't even think about it. Right. Yeah. Like once you go to therapy, you're kind of like, oh, like there's all this stuff I kind of have to work on that I'm contributing to this marriage. And I kind of I don't know, I wish in hindsight that I had known those things like before I got into my marriage, but that's not practical like as a 22-year-old or 26-year-old when I got married. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:48

So you're doing in tandem, you're going to couples therapy and individual therapy.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

I was individual therapy.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

Gotcha. But your ex was not. He was not. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:56

Yeah. Do you feel like that was a piece? It was a piece. Yeah. Yeah. Cause like you can only do so much work on your side of the fence. Yeah. Yeah. And effort is super important in making a marriage work. Like it's not a not a one-person job. So yeah, that was definitely a contributing factor. And it just was like a straw that broke the camel's back. Yeah. It was like a small little argument that we had over a coffee maker. Yeah, it's always a small thing. Yeah, yeah. It was that.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:24

Was it a thing where the separation was on the table and an active part of your conversations, or was it like a cutover where it was like once it was like said or said out loud once, then it was kind of like I mean, we had been in fights before that had been like, I don't know what I'd call them, but like just like bad fights.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:43

Yeah. Where like, you know, we had thought about splitting up.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:46

Was like presented as an option and trailing. Yeah. Like were you saying it out loud to each other?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:51

Not, it was never me saying it out loud. I think it was like maybe like a little bit of a like a weaponized kind of thing. Like, we're done. Like, I never said it, but it it forced me to think about it.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Yeah. That's one thing I always wonder about people is like, is it something that like they're discussing actively for a period of time and then eventually they're like, yes or no? Yeah, I think some people are. Or is it something that's like just the way that I work, I feel like once it was like an option on the table, I think I would have trouble to like you can't take it off the table.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, right. And I think that that's a reality. I mean, during those fights, you know, I'm thinking like, okay, well, I guess I'll have to get an apartment. And you're going through all the logistics. Going through the logistics and what's barriers, yeah. Once you start to think about it, I don't know. I think I feel like I've heard people talk about like the once you start to think about it kind of thing. Um, I don't, yeah. And I I think there's a lot of people who think about it and just never for them. I think that all the time.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:46

No, but like but like we kind of operate like that. Yeah. Like we're very much like, if we got divorced, like we will talk about anything. We'll be like, if I found out that you had a full family in an affair and you've been doing that for five years, what would we do? Like we just play this game all the time of like, yeah, what is the like extreme thing and how would we handle it? I don't know if that's like unique.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:05

Am I going to be a sister wife?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like, what would we do? If we got divorced, which of our friends would you go after? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like who would you date first? Like things like that. And like not in a threatening way, but in like a oh yeah, I could see that. Yeah. Or I think we'll say, like, if we ended up like not mate, like if we ended up like separating, I would be totally okay if you ended up like with one of our friends, like if that worked out better. I remain to believe that. I don't know if I believe that. It's easy to say it's easy to talk about. Yeah. It's like easy to talk about hypothetically, right? I'm like, let's not get ahead of ourselves here. But we do kind of like, I'm like, what kind of apartment would I get if I lived by myself? Yeah. Like doesn't have to do with anything with it. But if one of us died, Isaac will say, like, if one of us died, I would absolutely be okay with you having a romantic relationship with. Yeah, I'm like, if you died tomorrow, what would we do?

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

Yeah. Would you haunt the house? Yeah. Would you move? And I'd be like, no. This is a lot of house for one person. I know.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

But I'm also like, some people are some people are like, I like I need something completely different. And I totally understand that and get that. But for me, I would be like, no, we built this together. And it's like, I want, I want reminders of you. But obviously, you don't know that until it's happened. We talk about like dark shit like that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

Yeah. Well, I think that's like a healthy way to talk about it. Yeah. You know, like I think like bringing it up in like maybe sort of like a weaponized when it's happening when it is, like or in a fight. Yeah. It's not a good time to be bringing that kind of stuff up. Um, don't you do a fight? Don't worry, we've done that too.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:29

So what would you do if yeah? I left forever tomorrow. Okay, so Adam, it's very much kind of like a it's like a slow process, which I think, as you said, it's kind of like you start to see it starts to become an option, and then you start to explore these logistics of what it would be like if that were to be like the final decision. Yeah. Can you tell us the mo like when was it like final for you where you're like, this is done, I'm not going back. This is my final.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:54

So I mentioned the coffee, yeah, coffee maker. Uh and like during the argument, like I kind of just like stopped. Like, like I just got mentally got out of the argument that we were in into a different space and was like almost like an out-of-body experience where I was kind of like viewing the fight while it was happening. Yeah. And then I just kind of paused and I said, Like, do you do you care about like how your actions like are impacting me, like how like how they make me feel? And uh he said, like, your feelings aren't important. That's something we come back from. That uh yeah, and like maybe it was said in anger, yeah, but like I don't know, if you don't have that, like if you don't have someone who cares about how you're feeling, like a baseline. Yeah, it's a pretty pretty basic thing in a relationship. And uh it kind of also like confirmed how I was feeling already. Yeah. And so I was like, I don't like yeah, I was like, okay, like I'm done. Yep. And uh in the moment he said, I'm done too. And so that was that was it. Yeah, yeah. I think probably for him that was more of a like, I'm done in anger. Um for me, I was done done. You were done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:11

Did you have any moments of like what's the right word? Regret?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:15

No.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:15

You were you it was very clear.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:17

Yeah, yeah. It was uh like a like a fli a switch at flips for me.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:23

Okay, so then so I want to talk a little bit about like the actual process of divorce, and like we obviously have our perceptions of what you think the steps of the divorce are, but then I want I want to know like what was like the first thing you did and what are the things that you like didn't know or uncovered along the way that you had no idea about, and then about like just like the actual logistics and process of divorce.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:45

And also, is there anything different because you were gay?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:47

Yeah, so you'll probably have to ask that second question again.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:51

Yeah, well, that's fine. Sorry. I'm like famous for being like, here's 50 questions that I want you to talk about. So and I'm famous for only being a question. Answer one at a time. Question, yeah. Question one is you make that decision, yeah. And you're obvious you're the one that's like has made the decision to go through with divorce. What were like the first steps that you took? And were they immediate? See, I just did it. I just gave you a second follow-up question. Like I can't just ever end it at the one. Sorry, what were your first steps?

SPEAKER_02 1:15:19

I think you immediately become aware of how like dependent you are on the structures of your marriage because like then they're gone in an instant because like you're like, where do I even sleep? Yep. And then like for me, I was like leading up to this. I had always, and maybe this like wasn't a good thing in hindsight, but like I kept like our the status of our marriage like very private, yeah, amongst me and my like friends who I talked to about like almost everything.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:53

And so like I think a lot of them were like really surprised because like that's just not like they just like they mentally they weren't like oh, like that was on that might happen now. And so you immediately just become aware of like what your support network is.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

Um like who your inner circle is, yeah, like who your inner circle is, like who's gonna step up, who's not gonna step up. Yeah, like immediately clear. Do you want to name them? You can put a list here. Here's the list, here's the list who stepped up. It's gonna, it's gonna who did not. It'll scroll down the video. Uh, but no, it like it became abundantly clear the people who like actually support you versus like people who like say that they'll support you, but don't really, yeah, which is nice because like you immediately get a sense of like who your like truest friends and support network are. And then like, yeah, like finding a place to stay is like the first thing you have to do, unless you're like wealthy enough to just go to a hotel for like a long period of time, uh, which I'm not.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:59

So there's very much a status quo of like what's the formal process for the person who decides to divorce? Are they the lever? Like, there's the whole like get out, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:09

And it's like and I didn't plan, I didn't plan on like that being the day that our marriage ended. Yeah, like I didn't have any plan to leave or pack up things or anything. Like some people do, like some people have like time to think about packing up their things and like having a plan to leave, but like I really didn't, I wasn't it just it just happened. Yeah. Um just like the straw came and I didn't realize that would be the day that the straw took the camel's back.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:36

So did anybody that was very invested in your relationship because they knew you was a couple for so long try to not talk you out of it, but like in a helpful, encouraging way, try to be like, no, this is what you guys should do and this is what you should work on, and like you know, that's a it's wild that you that you asked because I hadn't thought about that, but the answer is no. Yeah, they were like, This is Adam's decision, and we're here to support him.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:58

Yeah, I think yeah, I think like my I think my closest friends when I talked to people about about the ending, I don't like no one really questioned it at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:08

Did you have pretty segmented friends?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:10

No, all very all combined, essentially. Yeah, um a couple friends who I was closer with, but like almost all exclusively like together. Yeah, a couple friends.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:23

Okay, so I work in marketing, so I'm gonna ask you a very marketing question question. What was your calm strategy and where did you start? Okay, like who did who you're like I'm gonna tell these people first and then then big chat GPT user?

SPEAKER_02 1:18:35

Okay, where I I'm new, but I am a fan. So a lot of there's a lot of stigma around utilizing chat GPT for all sorts of things. Yep, right. Um, but like I had a real therapist, so I didn't feel let me disclaimer this disclaimer. I have a real therapist, not just chat GPT. Um, but I do you I did utilize chat GPT to like get a sense of someone else's reality, something else's reality. Because like sometimes you're especially when you're in like a a relatively private marriage, like sometimes you have a set you don't have a sense of like your own reality. Yeah, like you lose a sense of what's normal and what's not normal and what's okay and what's not okay. And it like I literally like uploaded primary source documents to Chat GPT of like conversations that I had with my ex. And then Chat GPT would be like, Well, like this is probably what he's trying to say. Interesting. And I'd be like, Oh, okay, like that makes sense. And then like it would be like, Oh, that's not okay for anyone to say to you, Adam. Yeah, and I'm like, oh, like, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:48

Interesting. That's so funny. I'd be like, was it okay that I said this?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:51

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:52

Yours would be a bloodbath. I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:56

I think a lot of people use Chat GBT for like just an affirmation that everything they're doing is correct. Yeah. And like so true. I had like, I think if you want to utilize it for anything like therapy related, you kind of have to ask it to be a devil's advocate. Oh, yeah. And so you have to be like, what's the other side of that opinion? That is brilliant. And so, and then it'll lay out, and then I could be like, Well, I actually think it's closer to the devil's advocate side of the opinion in this situation. Yeah, over time, like you've trained a model essentially to like understand how you function and likely how your partner functions. Right. Uh, it's very cerebral, and my therapist like gives me a little like slaps on the wrist for you utilizing. Yeah. I think if you utilize it with a way, like every you have to take everything with a grain of salt. Yeah. Right. But it definitely helped in like immediately after I left, I was like really concerned about like how people would view me. Yeah. And uh ChatGPT said something along the lines of like, you really can't control the narrative. And so, like, don't try and just be honest with people, and like eventually, like the true story will find its way out.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:12

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:13

And like, you don't have to worry about controlling what people think of you and all this stuff. And then, like, if there are people who like don't agree with what you're doing or don't believe you, or things like that, like then like that's on them, and like you just have to like let them go. Yeah. And I was like, oh, okay. Like that, like it was a huge relief for me to be like, okay, well, I'm not gonna try to like frame any sort of narrative around this divorce or try to convince my friends to take sides. Yeah, like I was I'm very opposed to that. Yep, very much. And so uh, like I I was yeah, I I didn't want anyone any of my my friends to be like, you should pick us. I didn't want that. I specifically asked them not to to try to be there as a support for both of us. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:59

Yeah, and when I met like Comstrady, but I like how did you decide who to tell and when? And I want to get to like how how was your family?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:07

Like you said, your parents were are divorced, your brother's been through divorce. Was there any sort of like were they hard to tell or not?

SPEAKER_02 1:22:14

Yeah. I mean, it's honestly like it was honestly really hard to come out to the first person I came out to, which is my mom. Yeah, but it was really easy to come out to everyone else. Yep. Because like it felt like a positive thing. Yep. And this is not a positive thing, like divorce is not a positive thing. Yeah, and so like it was actually harder than coming out to most people, yeah, for me. Um and I think there is like a component of like being gay and having fought so long for it. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:46

You're like, and now I'm fighting against it. This feeling of like, yeah, yeah, there's like a I'm adding to the argument for why people should be against gay marriage.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:56

Yeah, and then I look at the straight population's got like 50 plus percent of divorces, and it's like, yeah, okay. I'm just normal.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:04

Well, there's like an element of like pride to it, and I think control too. Like you at least have when you're coming out to lean on, like, I didn't choose this. Yeah. Right. But yeah, this is a choice. You're like, I chose to get married, and now I'm choosing to end that. Yeah, yeah. And so there's I think there's like a it's not the wrong thing to do, but more like I was wrong about something that I like spent so much time, and we all spent so much time. And you know, like there's like a self-admission part of the way you your actions and where you've the path you've gone down that isn't necessarily there with coming out. Coming out, you're like, this is the way it is, and I can't change it.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:42

Yeah. I think uh I think I would only say like, I don't, I don't have any regrets about my marriage. So I don't feel like anything is wrong. Yeah, it was just the right time for me to end it. Yeah. Like I don't regret getting married, I don't regret how much time I spent in my marriage, yeah, which is a really good thing because it was 15 years. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:05

Yeah, but I think that's really good insight into I think that's probably I would assume because I think a lot of us just like we feel close with our friends day to day and they know us as people, and they probably know both of us as people. So when you present something like divorce or something like that, and they're also in their own relationships, I don't think it's this like shock or it's this uh it's always a reality for everyone that's in any relationship that there is a possibility that the relationship might end. Yeah. And I feel like I feel like your friends who know you probably understand that a little bit better. But family who have like taken this person in and have now seen you as this like unit, unit, yes, that's a great word. Unit. It's one thing, right? And that you're you're breaking that, and then this person is no longer gonna be a part of it. Yeah, I feel like my hunch is that for both of our types of families and where we came from, they would immediately there's like helpers and fixers. So they would be like, you don't want to do that, and not in like a divorce is bad way, but in like uh this no, no, no, no, this is your person, like you need them to be your best version of yourself, yeah. And so I feel like it would be an all hands-in type of situation where it would just and like they would just take a lot of discussion to be like how you got to that resolution.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:13

I think it would be hard. I think people in my life know that I don't make decisions like in a rash way ever. Yeah. And that like I really think things through. And like if I come to a decision, yeah, I've come to a decision for a reason. Yeah. And that they really like trust my judgment. And like I I did hear that a lot, like I trust your judgment, which I feel like is like saying like it's like not I support what you're doing, but more like, you know, you've like no matter how I feel, I I know you're doing what you need to do. Yeah, yeah. Um, which was a good, it's a good, yeah, it's a good thing to say to someone. It's it's like, yeah, it's like one of those things though. Like when you tell people, they're kind of like, uh, are you how do you respond to someone like who says that they're getting a divorce? Like I know, yeah. Yeah, it's comp it's super complex. Yeah, every divorce is different, so you don't have no, it's not like you know, all cancer is bad, you know. But like, are all divorces bad? Right. Sometimes not.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:17

And like there isn't really the right thing to say, or there isn't like the standard right thing to say. Like you said, it's very dependent upon the divorce.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:26

What's something that you wanted to hear? Is there something that like you wanted to hear? The classic, like your kid comes out to you, and then like what are the right things to say? Yeah. What are the right things to say in your experience when someone tells you that they're getting a divorce?

SPEAKER_02 1:26:38

Yeah, it's a good question. Everyone's first response is usually, oh, I'm so sorry, which I guess is a good place to start.

SPEAKER_03 1:26:46

Yeah, it's like showing empathy or trying to.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:48

Yeah. Yeah. I think like an affirmation of like, like, oh wow, that must be very difficult, or you know, something along those lines is probably better than like I'm sorry, because like every divorce is difficult. I think.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:03

Some might be for the better, but they're all diff difficult. Yeah. Even managing like some of the logistics stuff is difficult. Yeah, I I would say that listening is so much more important than saying anything and just maybe asking questions about like how are you holding up?

SPEAKER_05 1:27:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:22

How can I support you? Yeah. Those are things that people if someone said to me, like, oh my god, that sounds really difficult. How are you handling things? And how can I support you? Yeah. Like, done. Like that's a great, yep, a great way to yeah. And I think for the most part, it was like, can you talk to me about like the things, some of the things I'm going through and just like listen? And uh and most people, most of my friends really showed up for me. Yeah. What do you feel like people don't talk about enough when it comes to divorce? Like, what were the things that you're like? No one ever talks about this. Well, I think no one really talks about the logistics of their divorce. Yeah. Like like the legal logistics of it. Yep. Everyone is different, again, about how they go through like the legal process. But I one thing I've noticed is that now when I find like people who are out there who are going through some of the things that I'm going through, like we immediately like kind of trauma bond over the experience. So I've heard like from a lot of people now about like what it looks like to go through a divorce from a logistical perspective. And sometimes it takes people years. Right. And I didn't really even realize that. Yeah. You kind of think like, oh, like you just get divorced and like I don't know, you file some paperwork and then that's it. But depending on like the complexity of your finances and the complexity of like it's like way more complex if you have children. You actually even have to fill out different paperwork, legal paperwork if you have children. Yeah. Versus not you have to wait three months to get a divorce. Like they force you to wait three months at the minimum. Just to think about it, or like is there a rational think about it? Yeah. It seems a little heavy-handed of the government. Yeah. No, you have to be together for three. But I think a lot of people actually may or during those three months, like decide not to get to divorce. So maybe it's a good thing. You should probably have that for getting married too. Yeah. Yeah. Like you sure?

SPEAKER_03 1:29:21

It should be the same, same waiting period. Yep. All right, everyone. That concludes part one of our episode with Adam. Thank you for tuning in. And we will have a part two next week. And Tyler promises to come to Song of the Week with two because he owes you one. So as always, thank you for listening. Um, this is their Auto Gaze of Montana. Please find us on all socials at No Gaze in Montana, or of course, always send us an email with questions, comments, feedback, anything. Uh that's no gaze in Montana at gmail.com. Thanks everyone.