48 - Drunkapalooza (Part II)

Tyler sits down with Isaac and Ariel and shares the story behind his decision to stop drinking. We talk about recognizing a problem before hitting “rock bottom,” the shame that can come with asking for help, and what sobriety has looked like over the past 18 months. We also explore queer drinking culture, supporting a partner through addiction, and why everyone’s path to recovery looks different. Whether you’re sober, sober-curious, or simply reflecting on your own relationship with alcohol, this one’s for you.

Join us on all major socials @nogaysinmontana for exclusive content!

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:10

I walked up to probably a completely stone cold silver couple.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

This is when I needed to turn in. This is good, which I wish we would have actually got their information. It was a bit, and then it turned into real.

SPEAKER_04 0:20

And they were spooked by me. Yeah, they were.

SPEAKER_02 0:23

Immediately they were like, oh. They were giving her nothing.

SPEAKER_07 0:28

And I think I was just like, my friend has a podcast. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 0:32

That was the introduction.

SPEAKER_10 0:33

Yes, it was. That always goes well.

SPEAKER_07 0:36

Great. Another man with a podcast.

SPEAKER_10 0:38

I know. Someone other male in the podcast.

SPEAKER_07 0:40

But it turns out they were gay parents. And I was like, we want to have you on the podcast. And then we never got the information.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

I remember because they were gay parents that had just had their fourth annual pride party for gay parents. Mm-hmm. I loved it. You said there was like 50 kids there and 20 adults.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Oh. Oh, I did not even see you there. Hey, hey you. Hey, hey.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Just kidding, everyone. This is Tyler. I am here to open the second part of the episode. So welcome to There Are No Gays in Montana. This episode, the second part of this episode, as I'm sure you know, is about sobriety. And specifically in this one, we talk about my individual choice to become a non-drinker in the last 18 months. So super excited for you guys to hear it. It is a little bit emotional, a little bit heavy at times, but also very, very light at other times. With that, I think I'll go ahead and play the episode. As far as an intro, um, nothing too new for Isaac and I. We are headed to Montana in the next couple weeks. We're gonna do our annual lake week with uh both of our families. Um, they happen to be over the same week this year, so that's great. And my mom, Lori, is turning 60, and so we're headed a little bit early, and we are putting together, or we have put together, a golf scramble to celebrate. So there's about 30 of us golfing. It's gonna be super fun. I'm sure it'll be lots of laughs. So yeah, so we'll so we'll be doing that. We've also been trying to hit water skiing. We keep bringing it up. Theme of the podcast. We've been water skiing as much as possible. We went three times last weekend, and Ariel got up and ski twice, got up and skied twice. And so maybe we'll post a video of that. It's really funny. She actually got up, and I think when she realized that she was up and skiing, she just let out this like huge wail of a scream. So I'm actually deciding right now we will be posting that. So yeah, so sit back, relax, listen to the episode here, and we will kick it off.

SPEAKER_07 2:59

So I guess my question, Ty, to bring it back to you is like when did you clock that your drinking wasn't normal? Or when did things shift?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Great question. I if I had to put like a timeline on it, I feel like I I started to internally whether I was like actually thinking about it or not, probably started to feel that way like post very freshly post-COVID, maybe. Yeah, I think that's probably right. When did we go to Aiden's Aiden's bachelor party? Right in Aiden. San Diego. It was in May.

SPEAKER_10 3:27

May of probably 2023. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

But it was three. I think around that weekend or around that time, like I remember having thoughts on that bachelor party, being like, this seems like I'm not necessarily doing this out of like fun and party with everyone, but more so doing it like I don't have the control over it that I feel like I have before. And maybe it was always that way. I just hadn't realized it yet. But and now that I actually think about it, I'm and I don't think I've even ever told you this. Yeah. But I think like that weekend was the first time that I think in my mind I started being like, hmm, I think there's something going on here. And then once once that thought happens, like every time I'd have like a really big party weekend after, it would be like, ugh, I need to address this probably. Ugh, I need to address this. And so I think probably 2023. Yeah. Yeah. But really, I don't think I did. I did nothing different that weekend. It's not like my behavior changed. I think my mentality changed. Like a shift in your and I think slowly too, the behavior part of it maybe got a little bit worse and worse in terms of like how much I was drinking or like how quickly I was drinking. Yeah. But I would say about that time. And then I had a few, there was probably, I don't know, I was like two, three times where I was, it would be like a morning after I was extremely hungover, extremely anxious, and like just kind of vulnerable feeling, and kind of a like somewhat breakdown to Isaac and be like, I think I have an issue. Like I think I have a problem. It's not a huge issue at this point, but it just feels like something I need to address. Like, do you remember that? Do you remember that one time?

SPEAKER_10 5:00

Absolutely. I remember multiple conversations. What did you think? Really?

SPEAKER_02 5:03

How many do you think we had three?

SPEAKER_10 5:04

No. I I think we probably had been early on. I think we probably had like a year's worth, yeah, at least of two years of just like little moments of what Tyler's talking about where it's like because I well, I don't think it was. I think it took a while for you to be like, I think I have a problem. And also, this is also your mentality of you have a really hard time getting outside help on any counsel. You are well, you're just like you're so independent. So even the way you're speaking about it now, yeah, yeah. Exactly Tyler's thing where he's like, This is an issue that I created and I have to solve it. And it has to be me, and I can't put this burden on anyone else, and this is my own issue. So I think for a long time, that was his in his head. So I think for him, he's like, I'm gonna fix this without ever talking about it with anyone.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Yeah, before anyone really knows it's a problem or notices, and it's like that guy has a problem. Yep. I'm like gonna fix it, and then eventually talk to I talked to Isaac about it. And then we went for a long time, probably.

SPEAKER_10 5:54

Yeah, but I think there was also just like moments, yeah. Very key moments where it would be like that morning after anxiety, whatever, and I would just find like a completely empty beer can, like in the trash. Yeah. So very like 10 a.m. and it would be like, where did this come from?

SPEAKER_02 6:12

Yeah. A few a few of those where I like the morning of? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:16

Oh the morning after being like starve off at hangover, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 6:20

Yeah, exactly. But then, so in my mind, that's what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_07 6:23

Yeah, right? You can always justify.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

But then in reality, it's like, no, that's just like addiction. Yeah, yeah. Like that's just total addiction.

SPEAKER_07 6:31

So it's just addiction that's been so normalized in American culture.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Right, right, right. Or I would so definitely just yes, but just like very chemical.

SPEAKER_10 6:38

Like he was like, I have to, and not like uh, I'm gonna make this drink, but like I'm gonna consume this entire thing immediately at like 10 in the morning, crush it, hide it. And that like that was where like the small signals to me of like this is transitioning from just like hey, we're just in our late 20s, early 30s, whatever, to like it's getting shame. This is something we have to talk about. And I'm hiding it, and he's that's the other thing. It's like I'm hiding it and he's catching it right with that, like that exact situation. Yeah, and the other the other hard thing too about Tyler is like he's a big guy, but he his like physical motor function, motor function, one and a half drinks, like it takes nothing, like he's kind of like a physical lightweight, and so there was just always like science. Like, I just always kind of like knew that he had been drinking, yeah. In like scenarios where it's like no one's drinking, or we're not drinking, but I do think it took like probably a year of having little micro conversations like that. But again, I think the struggle for Tyler was like, I'm gonna fix this on my own.

SPEAKER_07 7:42

Totally. I mean, the shame and stigma around substance use certainly doesn't help. And I think that's really common for anybody struggling with any sort of yeah, addiction or just like habit that they're not a fan of.

SPEAKER_08 7:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 7:56

Is being like, I can fix this myself, I don't have to tell anyone. Right. And I'll just nip it in the bud. Yeah, just exactly. I'll just next time I won't.

SPEAKER_02 8:04

And I would I I over that like year, I would I feel like I would have year or two years, probably. I would have times when I'm like totally good and I'm like, yeah, I did it, I'm fine.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

Right.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

And then I would have like a big drinking weekend. Yeah. And it would be like back to I gotta like hair of the dog it, where I'm I'm secretly drinking. Or I'm like my other classic thing that I would do is like we all have a whole bunch of people over, and there's a whole bunch of cans in the so I'm going out and I'm cleaning up, and I'm like having a few sips out of the cans as I'm cleaning up from the party, yeah, just to like stave away the hangover, but also it's just like addiction. I don't even think it's that. I think it's like But that's what I was telling myself, right?

SPEAKER_10 8:40

Is what I'm saying. I think it's you have a born addictive personality with everything, right? Like it's not even just alcohol, it's always like it is either on or not apologize for that. Like Tyler just is like that. Like he just is like or work or work or consumer. Getting a job I want, or yeah. Which I think there's that's why there are people a lot of times there's a lot of like correlation between highly successful people and substance use substance abuse, right? You know what I mean? It's because they have that addictive personality can absolutely be applied in a way that is extremely yeah successful, right?

SPEAKER_02 9:13

You know, it's like or it's off for me, right? And in this situation, like when it was on, it was is bad, and it but my internally I think I also knew that like if this gets something's gonna break, or I need to stop before it actually gets really bad. Because I think it was bad. I don't know how much I don't know your thoughts on this. I think it was bad that like last two years, but I wasn't like you didn't get fired. I didn't get fired.

SPEAKER_07 9:36

You didn't have your classic rock bottoms, you didn't I didn't have a class right, yeah. As far as I know, you didn't get fired, yeah, didn't get a DUI, you know, like classic rock bottoms.

SPEAKER_02 9:45

Which is something that I very much talk about on Drew's episode, where it's like I'm my case is a little bit different in that I wasn't I didn't have this like one single huge life-changing defining event that was like okay, I have no other choice.

SPEAKER_07 9:56

Which is kind of like how we're taught about addiction. Yeah, it's like you hit rock bottom, yeah. You're fine.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

Right.

SPEAKER_07 10:03

So in my mind I'm like unnuanced understanding. Right.

SPEAKER_02 10:07

So I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, I have not done that, and I'm not, to my knowledge, anywhere near getting there yet. So I was I'm fine, but that is so separate from actually like having an addiction. Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_10 10:20

And I just feel like it took years worth of conversations and like little micro things happening to finally convince Tyler that like he wasn't he wasn't gonna do it on his own. Right. Like, even as simple as like this has to be something that we continually talk about, and like him realizing that this isn't something that he can keep only to himself in secret. Like he has to, we have to be able to communicate of like, I'm not doing well. Yeah. Right. So and being okay saying that because like historically, I'm sure there are examples, most people don't achieve sobriety completely by themselves without any sort of like help or resources or talking to the people around you, or at least telling people around you, or at least just like saying it.

SPEAKER_08 11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

That was the other thing, is Isaac was very much like, I think you need to like start telling people, not necessarily being like, hey, I'm an alcoholic and I need to get through this, but more just being like, I'm not drinking, I'm not drinking, or more just being like, I'm not comfortable, I'm not feeling good about like my drinking habits. And so I'm trying to work on that. Even something as simple as that.

SPEAKER_07 11:18

I remember you doing that.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Yeah. To the people that like I'm close to very much was helpful, and very much was something that Isaac was like trying to encourage me to do and take that step.

SPEAKER_10 11:27

And I think it was just foreign to you because like again, like you are such an independent person where if there's ever an issue, like Tyler's gonna fix it and solve it himself.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I just didn't want, I really didn't want that situation where like I've now told people that I feel like I'm struggling with this, and then everyone's eyes are on me. Yeah, totally. And then we're at union and I do I am having a beer and everyone's like right, totally, totally. Yeah. That was that was a big that was a big part of my hindrance, I think.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

That situation, more so any more so than any sort of like, I feel like it's a social lubricant for me. I feel like I can't be fun without it. Like that necessarily wasn't really my hang up, yeah, and never kind of has been. It's purely chemical. Yeah, purely chemical. Again, for sure. Again, like and the stigma. It's like it's like a failure. In my mind, it was a failure, like admitting that, yeah, and not and having to like tell people about it, having to like deal with it was me also admitting to myself that I just couldn't handle something. Yes, which is which was like something I did not want to do.

SPEAKER_10 12:25

Yeah, a topic we repeatedly talked about was just him being like, I can't be that type of person that just can't tackle it. Like just can't I can't just teach myself to drink that to moderate.

SPEAKER_02 12:36

I'm good at everything. I'm good at everything. So how is this the one thing that I can't handle?

SPEAKER_07 12:40

I know.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

Anyway, so that's kind of how it happened. Yeah. For the most part. That was like the the leading up time. Yeah. And then we had one like big party at our house, also the same party that Isaac and I were like, I think we're done having after parties at our house. I think we're at daytime.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Name their names.

SPEAKER_10 12:54

Matt Burgess's 30th birthday. Yeah. But it was nothing first name Matt, last name Burgess. But it was nothing to do with Matt. Nothing to do with Matt.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

It was nothing to do with Matt. I think it was. It was too much. We just we hung out here, went down to White Center, came back, and we just like had an after party, and then there was this moment when Isaac and I were just trying to go.

SPEAKER_07 13:11

We recorded the day after. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_02 13:13

Did we?

SPEAKER_07 13:14

Yes. We recorded the day after. It must have been season one. Because I remember us talking about it off before. Off Mike. And I was like, what happened? What happened?

SPEAKER_02 13:22

No, nothing big happened. It was just this situation where Isaac and I are trying to go to bed at our own house. There's still 12 people like hanging out socially at 4 a.m. Three of them we don't know. In our hot tub, and we were just nobody in our house knows them. Yeah. So we were just kind of like, I think we need to be done. We're we're good to have people over. We're good to have parties, people's birthday parties. We just need to not be the landing spot for the after party.

SPEAKER_10 13:45

Yeah, yeah. The phase of we it was like the moment where the phase of what we used to do at 9 10 was like we wrapped that chapter up. Yeah, and said, I think we're done. Good. We're moving on.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

But also that next day, I was extremely hungover, did the same thing where I like spiral. Did we go? I think we went to the post or the we went to the spot, uh spot. No, I went to the spot. I immediately at breakfast had a mimosa, came home, continued to clean up, had sips out of the cans, and then later that day, Isaac was like, You've had drinks today, haven't you?

SPEAKER_10 14:13

And I was like, Which it was as as multiple instances of us having that conversation and talking about it and being like, This is the type of behavior where I really feel like this is not normal drinking. This isn't like a level of this is where it's like starting to impact your lifestyle. Like just like your general life day to day. Right. So I mean like not being able to wake up and not drink.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

Right. And I know I'm going into a Monday then, hungover.

SPEAKER_08 14:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:39

And just like reeling at my job and just like yeah, just bad. So that was kind of the breaking point, even though again nothing big happened, to where I was like, okay, I really need to do something about this.

SPEAKER_07 14:50

I have questions.

SPEAKER_02 14:51

Yeah. What questions do you have at this time?

SPEAKER_07 14:52

I want to ask you, Isaac, as the person who was at the party, I'll name them all. As the person who you care so much about Tyler, obviously, your other half. Yeah. And you're seeing him struggling. Like, how do you balance like being the only person who really knows and is on the inside, but he's also pushing you out at the same time. You see him struggling actively, but you don't want to shame him too.

SPEAKER_10 15:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 15:12

Like, what's the way that you can bring that up in a non-judgmental, but I'm concerned for you?

SPEAKER_10 15:17

That's a really good question.

SPEAKER_07 15:18

It's hard. I've struggled with that in my life.

SPEAKER_10 15:21

It's hard, but it's it's so hard. It's hard. Like it is so hard because it was like it was this combination of those types of instances happening like one time, two time, and then him being like, Nope, I'm getting a handle on it. And then seeing these like weeks of periods where he really was fine and like casually drinking and could be fine. And then for me, I think in a relationship, it was like one thing with Tyler and I is like it probably in our relationship, it probably goes honesty and then love in that order. Yeah. And so I feel like it was just like this huge breaking of trust, like two people that had been best friends for three years before we ever started dating. And then now it was like these little fibs and lies, where it was just like this breaking fibers within our relationship more than ever so before of anything. And so I think it was just like every time I saw that can in the trash, it was just like a like knife to the heart of just like he's telling these little tiny lies, but also knowing that like it's because he has so much shame around it, and it's because he can't control like this is something that he cannot fix on his own. Like, this is not his fault.

SPEAKER_07 16:28

He's not wanting to lie to you, right?

SPEAKER_10 16:30

He doesn't want to do it, it's not his fault. So I think really just remembering that, and I do think like that was not a perfect journey by any ways for me, even. I know there was definitely heated moments where I would be like, Tyler, I'm not doing this for our lives of just like, I don't want to do this. So, like, we have to do something. Like, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna be that spouse that's sitting there with their alcoholic husband and just like not this is it. You know what I mean? So I feel like we had a lot of tiny moments that didn't led to some bigger ones.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

I also want to be clear, I don't think you ever made me feel like if you don't quit this, you're gonna leave me. No. Yeah, I mean that sounded the way you just said that sounded more intense than I think you got that out.

SPEAKER_10 17:13

Well, I just but I think there were some things like Tyler, I'm not going to be that person. Yeah. Like I will be here to do this with you, but you also have to take some steps to make a change. And a lot of that has to do with admitting that you can't do this on your own. Yeah. Like you're going to have to do outreach or like do something. And I'm like here for you and with you, and I will be here along the way. And also you are like not alone. Yeah. You are trying to solve a problem that millions of people have dealt with, but I think that you think that you can do that all on your own, and you're just not going to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 17:43

And there's so many people.

SPEAKER_10 17:44

And you're going to have to start asking for help and resources and re and like we will do whatever you want to do. I have another question for you. Yeah. That was probably you're going to have to cut out like half of that. Sorry. Why? Because I don't want it to make it sound like I was like, I am a gun.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

No, you did not give me an ultimatum, but you did very much were like, I don't want this to be like what we do. And you also, the one that really hit me too, was you were like, if this is like the situation, we cannot bring kids into this world, which is so valid.

SPEAKER_07 18:08

It did say oh, I'm getting emotional.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Which is so valid. I think that's a good thing. But that was another thing where I was like, Yeah, this is not ruining my life right now, but this cannot be my life, or we're going to be raising someone. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 18:18

Like we have to be mentally and like physically ready for that.

SPEAKER_07 18:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 18:23

In order to do it right, or at least how we think or we want to do it right.

SPEAKER_07 18:26

We want to do it.

SPEAKER_10 18:27

So for him, it was very much me just being like, I we can't do kids yet or right now. Like, this is something you and I have to work through. No. You and I, this is on dad probation. This is something that you and I will work through together with the help of others or however we do it, but we're gonna solve this first.

SPEAKER_07 18:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

So which is so true. I mean, it's very true. If we're going to go down the path of having kids and be like, which is very stressful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 18:51

And stress drives you to use substance. Right, very not you, anyone.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Okay, my question for you was before the like this situations where I was like fibbing and getting caught in things, I guess. Way before that, when it was more just like a me kind of coming to you, being like, This feels different. Did you have a thought internally yourself being like, Tyler's probably gonna come to me someday about this? Like the first time I ever came to you. Like, remember we were driving from Hauser to Missoula or something, and I was like really upset because I'm like, I think this is an issue. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. That was like I think the first time I actually came to you about it. And it was ever a conversation about between. And I remember driving around Flathead Lake. Yes. Do you think before that, just like observing me and drinking and like drinking habits, do you think you were like, this may is gonna like come someday?

SPEAKER_10 19:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Really? Yep. Interesting.

SPEAKER_10 19:38

Because I think for you also alcohol very physically impacts you. Right. One of the things that I think I've been blessed with the type of alcoholic that you are, is you you're not a mean drunk. Like that's not your type. And so that is a completely different type that you and I were didn't have to work through. Anger, which honestly, in some cases, maybe is fixable faster because I think it's more of a hard stop. More in faster, harder, like there's so much more consequences. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 20:03

Tyler also wasn't a dangerous drunk, I don't think. Yeah, no, you weren't putting yourself in reckless situations.

SPEAKER_10 20:09

Physically incapable, like like just like a strong.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Looks like a wet noodle. Yeah, you know what I mean? Just like always the other things is uh like always the drunkest at the party. And that is very much how I I think for the last two to three years where I took a zoom back and looked at it, I'm like, I'm always the drunkest one at the party. And like didn't take a lot to get there for a lot of the game.

SPEAKER_10 20:29

And also like speech pattern, like yeah, it took like nothing, and it would be like he couldn't use words fully. That's what you could tell.

SPEAKER_02 20:36

You can tell, you can definitely tell. I I do think I can drink a lot because I think when I also look back at my patterns, I very much is drinking more than everyone else. I just don't think any of us really knew. Like we're a union, we're at the gay bar, and everyone's like, half the group's going, oh, our drink's full, half the group's going, oh, we just got one, whatever. And I'm like going each time. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like I'm going with every group, not the off groups. And so I yeah, I definitely drank more, but I do think you can see it on me. You get drunk faster immediately. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 21:03

So it's like you can drink a lot, but it's like to get to drunk, it's like here to here. Yeah, and then you're just like, your graph of drunkness is like yes, exactly. I think we constantly went back and forth too, and this is a decision that I couldn't make for Tyler. And we I think it was just one of those things that he has to figure out on his own. But like he would constantly, I think, with that struggle of admitting that like he this is something that like he wasn't given the cards to just like be a successful drinker. It's like very genetic.

SPEAKER_03 21:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_10 21:31

And so I think very early on we had the conversation of me telling him of being like, Tyler, you can try this and you can do the punch card thing, and you can even try to learn to moderate. We've done this for two years, and we keep having these like pivotal moments, but like at some point, I truly believe that like you can't have a positive relationship with alcohol. Yeah, and that's okay. Like, that's more than okay. That's that is not something common. That is not something you did wrong, that is not anything you have any control over. Like That is such like a genetic disease in a way. And you have to like at some point accept that. But I can't accept that for you. Yeah. And so I verbalized like two years of just like him trying many different things because he has to. Like how it's his body, not mine. Like he knows himself better even better than I do.

SPEAKER_02 22:17

So it's like I think you definitely put together way earlier on that I just need to be a non-drinker.

SPEAKER_10 22:22

There would be I just way before a time and where like Tyler was going to be sober. Yeah. But also I fully believed in you. The other great thing about your addictive personality is you're on or off. Yeah. And so and you're fully one of those things.

SPEAKER_07 22:35

You knew Tyler had it in him too.

SPEAKER_10 22:37

Totally. And like through it. Once he did it, he just, I mean, this is the guy that one time Tyler was like, I'm going to run every day for a year. And guess when he did it after the bars. Yeah. So there were there were periods of times where it would be like 2 30 in the morning, drunk as shit, and he'd go, I have to run my mile. I haven't ran it today. And then would go run through the neighborhood at night in the dark. That's so true. And like one time, one time he missed it. One time he missed it. Okay, you never so rather than running two miles the next day, he fucking started over.

SPEAKER_02 23:09

Minus one day. How about that? You want to know? Talk about alcohol ruining my life. One I was like eight months in on a work trip in North Carolina. Isaac and I went out on the town really hard one night, got up the next morning, realized I hadn't run, started over. So then I did a full other year after that.

SPEAKER_10 23:25

So yes, no breaks. Fully I was he fully had the capability. I just also Tyler has to get there in his own path and route for anything. Right. It's gotta be his idea. Totally. Yes. And that's we're also very similar in that way.

SPEAKER_07 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 23:39

I mean I think our lives together are dig it goes love, it goes honesty, love, and then lightly gaslighting each other into convincing them that your idea was their own idea. Yeah. And that's that's our marriage.

SPEAKER_07 23:50

I'm just having this sense of like I'm getting emotional because we haven't talked about your journey, me and you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:58

And to like hear that you were struggling to closed doors, and I was one of your best friends. Yeah. Like I just wish I had known and could have supported you. And I was drinking at your house all the time, you know.

SPEAKER_10 24:10

Yeah. But I but I think that's the whole part of the story, right? That's so many people's story. I know. That when they're struggling with any sort of addiction is like they are working so hard to wasn't as helpful as no, that's I don't but like how can you be?

SPEAKER_02 24:25

You know what I mean? Like I know that's the other thing that I think it's so extremely individual, and that's one point I really want to get across too for everyone. Is I do think I mean there are cases, I know there's cases where people are struggling and trying to like not drink and being around other people drinking is tough, especially at the beginning. Yeah, yeah. Honestly, truly is not the case for me. And I'm in my individual situation, it's like that. So, like, I don't, I don't carry any sort of like, oh, I wish I would have had this support by in any, I mean, he didn't stop.

SPEAKER_07 24:59

I'm sure, I'm sure you would have if I would have asked him to have a lot of people.

SPEAKER_10 25:03

And we've had that conversation too, of being like, Tyler, I will we'll let's do it. Let's do it together. Like, I have no problem. Yeah, like let's do it today. Yeah, but Tyler never wants to feel like a burden or that he can't be so unable to fix something that it's impacting someone else's own individual choice. I just don't feel that way.

SPEAKER_02 25:21

Like it's just so not to me, it was just more like me versus me. Yeah. And whatever's going on outside, like it's probably a very selfish, singular extreme individualism.

SPEAKER_10 25:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Where it's like to me, everything else going on around outside of me is like one thing, but it's so this is like what is going on with me, I guess, is is kind of my mentality toward it. But that is true. I I thought maybe that would kind of that sentiment would come up today just because I, other than recording for Druze, I don't think I've really told anyone besides maybe my mom. No, kind of the extent to which like that period of time.

SPEAKER_07 25:54

I mean, of course you did. I didn't realize you were having these conversations on a repeated basis. Yeah. I kind of thought that I remember the first time you weren't drinking in a group setting was our friend Katie's party.

SPEAKER_02 26:04

Yes. Yep, the weekend trip to Winter.

SPEAKER_07 26:05

You were telling me about the book that you had read. And I was wondering, like, I think I asked you, like, is it kind of like you want to try it out? Or yeah, is it a lifestyle thing? You're like, I don't really know yet.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:16

It felt very light.

SPEAKER_02 26:18

And even then though, to me, I was like, it still kind of was. Yeah. I think the longer time has gone on and the more I've actually had self-realization, right? The more I've been like, I was expressing it in that way then. Right. And being like, uh, I don't really know. Because again, committing to being like, no, this is something I have to do. Yeah. Put this huge stake out there. Right. And then if I slipped up after telling other people that, then I felt like it would be, then it would be a huge deal, and all eyes would be on me. And you it's a classic Tyler to like do something, make a huge change, and then later on, once that change is so solidified that it's never gonna go back, being like, I wanted to do that the whole time. Yeah, I want you guys to know that I'm committing to this, even though it's been going on the last two years. We're like so different, risk-averse, personality-wise.

SPEAKER_10 27:00

It's the same, it's like I'll make a huge fucking statement, change my mind the next day. It's like we've got to talk about this is like another core part of our relationship and how we're different. Yeah, like Tyler is never going to put something into the universe unless it is a 1000% sure opinion. Yeah, it's backed up by science, he's not gonna change his mind. Like, and I am flippant.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

He's he's working through things. We had a conversation when we were in Rio, and he said some crazy statement. I was like, Man, you really say that stuff, and then you kind of work out the details in real time. I know. I'm like, I yeah, I'll say anything and be like, I'm just putting it out there. Yeah, I may be wrong, but but Tyler's never no. Even the other thing though, about that that weekend is I had read the book and I had not been drinking, but then after, because when's Katie's birthday, October, I read the book once, went on like four-ish months of sobriety, went to a handful of events where like like my cousin's wedding we went to and went to.

SPEAKER_04 27:54

You went to Mexico.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

Went to Mexico, and there was like a couple of situations where like I was like, okay, I know this is like a controlled environment. I like cousin's wedding. I like had a glass of wine at the rehearsal dinner, and I was very controlled the whole time and felt great about it.

SPEAKER_07 28:07

You had your one glass, you moderated, moderated, so then I was like, cool.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Then I think after that came like another event where I was like, okay, I can do this, I can blah blah blah. And it just was became very evident to me after going sober for four months and then try to dip a toe and be moderating, and then kind of like slowly slipping again. Yeah. Then after that, I was like, no, this is really, this is really the yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that for me, again, you can like talk as much as you want or say as much as you want, but I just as a human have to experience it in for it to be truth. And so at that point, then I was like, no, now I've gone through this whole, I mean it's six month span of this experiment to where I've now taught myself or learned myself the real like in a real sense. No, like this is this is really the issue.

SPEAKER_08 28:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 28:51

But I think that's a really good valuable lesson too, is like, yes, you've been sober for a year and a half, but you've drank within that last year and a half. Yes. Like you've like in very like ways that you've been testing yourself and learning about yourself. And like we've talked through it and talked about it. And I think that's a really, really, really, really important lesson for anyone that it's like trying a sober lifestyle or trying to be sober is that it doesn't have to be perfect. Like it doesn't have to be like you never try a sip of alcohol or you never touch alcohol, or like even if you do, that doesn't reset you. Yeah, you know what I mean? That's not starting over.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Well, for me, you know, I gotta run a year, you know. Yeah, for you, it was but this wasn't an example. So then Isaac and I have different like sober months or sober dates for me because timeline-wise, uh after that well, that one birthday when I did it, I read the book again. Yeah, I was like, this is really gotta be the real deal.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

Will you talk about the book?

SPEAKER_02 29:39

I'm gonna grab it at a second, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_10 29:41

One more thing, thing it's like environmental factors, I think, are really important because like we go have a whole life of going on vacation or we'll go on like cruises or whatever, or like trip to Europe. Yeah, and we very casually drink on those trips, and it's like completely fine.

SPEAKER_08 29:58

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_10 29:58

You know what I mean? And you've talked about that, like going on our cruise, or um, I think it was maybe when we were in Spain, it was Spain, of just like we're wine tasting, we're doing that kind of stuff. And it's not like Tyler binge drinking to inebriation at a like extreme level. It was just like normal. So there was like an environmental factor there. So then I think you had those questions over the last year and a half of being like, okay, if we're all going to Mexico, is that a scenario where like the environmental factors are just like, oh, I think I can probably drink here and be okay?

SPEAKER_08 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 30:25

And I think for some people that is for me, no.

SPEAKER_02 30:29

Yeah, that was a another safe. I was never a day, but just like same habits. But I will say what was different about that is okay, timeline-wise, read the book again after that birthday party we're talking about. Then, but knew we were going to Mexico, so decided, like, okay, in Mexico, I'll have drinks. But I think after having that like four months of sobriety leading up to it and feeling so good, yeah, just physically, mentally, three days into that trip, my mentality, and this is when I knew it had shifted. Yeah, my mentality was more I can't wait to get back and just be sober again and reach that like three-month mark. Cause I feel like at three months is what it like really took off and was like, ooh, this is good, good, good. Like it feels good. So technically, like January of that year is the sobriety date, but I also drank in my in Mexico.

SPEAKER_10 31:13

But I think this is important for listeners to know or anyone to know that like doesn't have to be perfect. Yeah, it doesn't have to be this like I've been sober for a year and a half and it's been completely squeaky clean, which I think is a good lesson for you who likes to have a perfect record on anything. Right, black and white. Right. You're this is also the kid that used to have banned if he had bad handwriting on his notes or it wasn't white outable or fixable, full new note page. I would redo it. Like it just like it is psychologic, it is so psychological for Tyler.

SPEAKER_07 31:40

Like mental illness. Yeah, is it like an OCD level?

SPEAKER_10 31:45

Just like an extreme perfectionist. Yeah. And so I think that's a good lesson. And I don't know. I think that's something where you were like, this isn't about that, it's about like my own journey of where I feel comfortable in my spread and testing new things, and that that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Right. That was a big lesson I feel like I've learned. Still working on that, because the perfect the perfect score is. I'm sure it still haunts you. I'm sure, I'm sure it haunts you. Well, I just think my sobriety date needs to be May, not January, but it's fine. It's fine. It's fine.

SPEAKER_10 32:13

It's fine.

SPEAKER_02 32:13

Another thing that I think I really learned was it's very much you don't necessarily have to have a rock bottom for it to for you to actually realize it's an issue. And then once I kind of realized it's an issue, even without having this huge rock bottom, right? Everything I like look back at and more as time goes on, I'm like, hmm. Even though I looked like I was drinking the exact same as everyone around me, and physically kind of was, other than like the going back every time that I talked about, from the outside perspective, like a general friend or person that knows me, I don't think would look at me and be like, that guy needs to get sober. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:43

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Like of everyone in the bar, that guy needs to. Totally. It just looks different. But when I think about it internally, I think I know like this experience I'm having or the way that I'm approaching this is different than the person next to me. And I think that's another lesson. Is like it's just really, it's so individual. You have to know, like in internally, like people can tell you. People can tell you what to do. Right. People can tell you, and maybe it works for some people for someone to be like, no, this is your hard line.

SPEAKER_05 33:09

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 33:09

But I think internally I just could tell and I can feel that it was just different for me than it was to everybody else I was with, or most people I was with. I guess I don't know their experience either.

SPEAKER_08 33:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

But on the outside, it looks like we're all doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_10 33:23

And all fine. Like, I think there were so many people that were very surprised when you told them that you weren't drinking silver.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

A lot of people think it's fitness based. Yep. Or yes, like a lot of people think and even now recently, just because I haven't, I've never like posted about it, or you know what I mean? So I think a lot of people ask me like when I order something that's not a drink at a restaurant, they're like, Oh, like, are you doing a dry month or like dry January? Or they'll be like, fit, is it like fitness focused? Like, is the reason fitness? People don't necessarily find good question. I say I just got tired. Usually what I will say is like, I just got really tired of being hungover, which is true.

SPEAKER_08 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

And just realized that like alcohol was running me ragged.

SPEAKER_08 34:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:04

Which it was. Like those are all true statements. Yeah. But I don't necessarily sit there and be like, no, there was like a be period, a year period where I was like really kind of struggling.

SPEAKER_07 34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

You know?

SPEAKER_07 34:12

Yeah, totally. So the line I've heard that I like is like, if someone's like, Oh, you don't drink, like you don't like alcohol, and the alcoholic will say, No, I like it too much.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

That is fun. That is fun.

SPEAKER_07 34:23

But there's a lot of little things you can say.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

It is fun. I mean, it's necessary. That's the other thing. Drinking is fucking fun.

SPEAKER_10 34:29

Let's all let's put on it. Drinking is fun. It is. The swapping clothes was fun. I had a great time.

SPEAKER_07 34:33

I like that. Having a clear mind the next day is elite. I know. That's true. I've nothing will ever be.

SPEAKER_10 34:39

Honestly, anyone who's not 30 yet, I hate to tell you that once you're 30, you just wake up every day feeling like you're hungover. Regardless of not even drinking drink or not. Drink or not, you just wake up and you're like, I feel like hell. Yeah, my bones hurt.

SPEAKER_07 34:51

I want to talk about what helped you for sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. Talk about that book.

SPEAKER_10 34:54

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 34:54

Tyler went and grabbed the book. I just am so curious, truly, because again, we haven't really talked about this, besides like maybe a couple surface level sentences exchanged. Like, how did you take it from this is a problem? And I know I need to do something about it to like, are you just Googling?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Like, how do you yeah, how do you do it? Okay, this is actually crazy the way I came about this. And it was independent of me actually going to do read this book.

SPEAKER_03 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

But I saw a TikTok of Nikki Glazer.

SPEAKER_03 35:23

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 35:24

I've seen it on a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 35:26

It stuck with me.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

It stuck with me too. So I saw this TikTok, and this was probably six months before I ever like went down the path. But she was someone was like, You don't drink anymore. Like, what led you to that? And she basically was like, I read this book, this book, Alan Carst quit drinking without willpower. And in a nutshell, this book basically like breaks down why we drink as a society, what it came from. Yeah, how we're basically like it says, I don't know if it says brainwash, but socialized to like think drinking is normal. But when you really it's like a very psychological and sociology approach. Yeah. So when you look at it at a very, very, very minimal face value, we're it's basically just like choosing to intake poison.

SPEAKER_10 36:05

Yeah. We're like partaking in a ritual. Yeah. Like a custom ritual that we've all done that we're taught to do, that we saw a hundred generations before us do exactly been like the actual custom of creating and making alcohol is a gajillion years old. So it's like been around forever.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

Yeah. So this book really kind of like debunks, to be honest, like all of the basically all the reasons why people justify think or justify, or like thinking that drinking or like ingesting alcohol is like helping you and just kind of like flips it on its head. And it's like if you think about it this way, this is what we're physically doing, this is the mentality behind it, and this is where we get that mentality. So it's very, it just like very much lines out in a very succinct, very direct way what drinking is.

SPEAKER_07 36:47

And it's just it's culture shattering too.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Yeah, yeah. And so I saw this TikTok of her talking about that, pretty much doing what I just said. And I was really just curious about it. So then I looked it up, and then after like the first time of me wanting to like go down the path of trying to at least moderate my drinking better, I read it, and it really like kind of made me think about it, just makes you think about the way you drink or think about drinking in a totally different fashion and through a totally different lens. And so I read it, it worked for a long time, and then like I said, I I like went to a family wedding, had some drinks, and eventually kind of just slowly slipped down to just like being back to my regular like frequency of drinking. But then the second time I read it again and just knew like that time, like this really just has to be it. Like, no other not no other choice, but like I just this is it. And I I will say, like, it seems very I was kind of perturbed or like put off by the title, quit drinking without willpower, which basically I think as someone who's trying to quit drinking, makes it like them saying to you, like, you don't have the willpower to do this, so like fuck off.

SPEAKER_10 37:52

It's also good because that's your whole mentality, yeah. And has been the whole entire time. I can do this, like I can do this with willpower.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Right.

SPEAKER_07 37:59

I have this under control.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

But doesn't it feel like that's almost like calling you out being like, well, you don't have willpower, so you're failing at this. But really, what I think it's saying is like this is here's all the things that you can do, so you don't have to rely on willpower to not bend and drink in that moment is what it's saying. But the title is kind of funny, but yeah, I mean this method worked for me, right? Works for other people, has worked for other people, doesn't work for a lot of people. So, like, that is my individual experience, I will say.

SPEAKER_07 38:26

I mean, the thing we know about in society that to help folks with substance use, alcohol, but also with narcotics, I think sex addiction. I think many types of addiction now is like a classic 12-step AA type program.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 38:40

So, did you consider that? Did you look into it?

SPEAKER_02 38:42

I considered it. At one point, I actually looked up like where meetings were because Isaac and I kind of talked about it. Isaac was like, at one point, he was like, I've have you ever thought about just like going to an AA meeting? Like from what I've heard, they're super like open, welcoming for everyone. It's you can do it monsoon. Yeah. And I don't know if this is true or not, but in my mind at the time, I just knowing myself, I just didn't feel like in my gut, again, didn't get to test it, but I didn't feel like in the gut, in my gut, it was gonna be like the way or for me to do it. I think part of it, going back to what we were talking about earlier with the the privacy thing or like the not wanting to burden people thing, from what I know about AA, once you go through the like start the 12-step process, there's elements of the 12-step process that are very public, making amends and also very uh vulnerable, and vulnerable, which is not something that you necessarily are a natural app, so between lean into. So between me not feeling like I felt like I was gonna be like a not a good candidate in that way. I also the like physically going to a meeting to me at that time, I don't think it would be now, but at that time was me like physically admitting failure. Extreme felt very extreme, and felt very extreme.

SPEAKER_07 39:53

At that time, you were still considering it that you had failed, that was your mentality.

SPEAKER_02 39:57

Well, at that time, I think going to a meeting was me self-admitting that it was a failure, even though it's not right in real life. Right, right, right. In my mind, taking that act was like I mean, yeah, this is like a real issue. You know, I don't know Totally, it's hard. Whereas I think at the time when I I was considering it, doing something like this was more private, even to the point where like I was kind of nervous to put this up on my Goodreads because I put it up on Goodreads, and one of our friends was like, Hey, I saw that you like read a book about quit quitting drinking. Like someone asked about it.

SPEAKER_06 40:29

Really? Yeah, Kayla.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

Oh, nice, but yeah, so I think all to say, like, in my mind and in my gut, I just felt like it wasn't gonna be the best option for me, even though it could have been. So I just kind of decided that yeah. And I think after reading this the first time, I could tell that it was it I could be successful doing it just because of the way, like the content that it has, like it really really worked. Like just the way you think about it, and the way I thought about it. Totally. There's a way to yeah, even if you're curious, like it's a short book, it's a quick read. I'm sure it's on audiobook. I'm sure it's on audiobook. Um, but I all because I saw a TikTok of Nikki Glazer, I was like And this is completely non-spiritual. And that I'm glad you brought that up. Another thing is my perception, my perception of AA at the time was that it was based in religion, and I just didn't feel like that was a good fit for me either.

SPEAKER_07 41:19

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:20

I think now that I've done some more research or listened to other podcasts about people talking about going through AA, I think they have stepped back from there's so many different types of groups. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:29

I think you can find really religious ones.

SPEAKER_02 41:32

Right. I think at the core of it, it was stemmed at one point from having like religious roots. I don't think it's necessarily that anymore, but that was my perception at the time. So I that was another factor, is I was like, ooh, I don't know if this is like the right fit for me.

SPEAKER_07 41:43

Yeah. Have y'all heard of Al-Anon?

SPEAKER_02 41:45

Alcoholics Anonymous. Yeah, isn't that AA?

SPEAKER_07 41:48

It's common misconception. Al-Anon is the part of AA for friends and families of folks struggling. Ally Anonymous? More so like how have you been affected by having someone in your life that either is or isn't getting help. Right. That's also a resource out there for folks who maybe aren't the person struggling with substance use, but are struggling with someone that you love struggling wherever they are in that journey. Yeah. Alan can be really helpful. And all of you groups now happen in person and on Zoom, which is amazing in terms of accessibility.

SPEAKER_10 42:18

Yeah, I think there was a lot of stigma. Like it's just like we always talk about that, like the actual how of how you do it and how like we know A exists, we know therapy exists. But I feel like so many barriers for people is like, yeah, but what are the actual steps I need to take to get to the right one that works for me? So I think that's a really big thing.

SPEAKER_02 42:35

I think I lucked out in that way.

SPEAKER_10 42:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

I think there was an element of kind of just luck that me deciding this, reading this book, and just like having that mental progression just has worked thus far. Who knows? And I again I was gonna say, like, it's not done.

SPEAKER_10 42:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:51

So I think I'm lucky and I think I'm fortunate that it was I wouldn't say it was easy, but it clicked.

SPEAKER_08 42:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:58

Whereas so many people go through experiences where there's like so many tries and so much like real bad struggle. Yeah, you know, and so so I I do feel very appreciative that I was able to, for lack of a better term, nip it in the bud at that point in life using this method. Because it it was within reason somewhat seamless, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_07 43:19

I know. If you think about addiction as a disease, yeah, you just found the treatment that was working for you. Right, exactly. And there's probably a hundred different types of treatment that could work for people.

SPEAKER_02 43:30

So right, and for me, the first one I tried happened to work thus far.

SPEAKER_07 43:33

It's really daunting, right? Very daunting, extremely especially at the stigma and can't talk to anybody about it.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Right. And when Isaac brought up the the beatings, I was just like, I was so resistant to s for multiple reasons. Just because of that. Stigma being a huge one of them.

SPEAKER_10 43:47

Totally.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 43:48

Okay, so how do you feel about drinking culture now? 'Cause I'm like, we still very much are very prevalent. Mm-hmm. Especially right now on the weekends. My God, summer is no, we got a happy hour to get to. Tough. Do you no? Um but I'm curious about how now because we st we st how now, brown cow. Um we still we still like go out, we still go to Bride, we still have three days of like you are around all of us that are very much drinking.

SPEAKER_06 44:11

Yeah, besides you not drinking, has think have things changed socially? Chilled out more?

SPEAKER_02 44:16

I think we drink less. I think it was headed that way in general, just based on where we're at in life. Yeah. Yeah. So I think our part like quote unquote hardcore partying was kind of like tapering off. I think me deciding to not drink definitely sped it up. Right. Um, because I think in the last two years, we definitely have like we go out less frequently than we used to. We still do.

SPEAKER_10 44:37

Also, we used to just like every time we went to the grocery store, I'd always buy like a bottle of wine.

SPEAKER_08 44:41

Right.

SPEAKER_10 44:41

We don't really do that anymore.

SPEAKER_08 44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 44:43

Right. Like during the it wouldn't matter. Like Sunday grocery trip, we'd have a bottle of wine for the week. Because yeah, we'll drink it. Yep. Totally. And it was just like normal. And now it's like we don't need that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 44:52

We got concert tickets to buy. We don't need a wine budget.

SPEAKER_02 44:55

Girl, girl. You're so right. My approach now, I still really like going out. Yeah. Because at the core of it, I still am a very social human being. Right. In general. You know, like, and I don't really knock or just like not to toot my own horn. But I usually I generally don't like have a I need a social lubricant or have I had like a I need to like drink to like approach people or talk to people or feel like I'm having fun. So that part of it, I think, was also luckily kind of easy for me is like I did struggle with I think initially with certain groups or certain people that first time that everyone was realizing that Tyler wasn't drinking. It's like coming out again. It's like, oh yeah, it's television.

SPEAKER_07 45:34

That was like uh you just make yourself different.

SPEAKER_02 45:36

Right.

SPEAKER_07 45:37

And then people maybe want to ask.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

Yeah, and even if I mentality, even if my own internal mentality is like, oh yeah, like I can't drink, but it's not because I failed, it's not because I have an issue, it's not because I worry about what other people are gonna think in their own mentality about me saying that.

SPEAKER_07 45:52

So it's a sickness, y'all.

SPEAKER_02 45:53

Yeah, yeah. I think like I still very much like going out. I would say I definitely don't last as long. Like I'm ready to go home earlier. And that's okay. And that's okay.

SPEAKER_10 46:02

That's good. That's great.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

We can go home at one and then we can sleep. I mean, we're kind of 11ers, which is perfect. We are, we are fun. I think it's funny, like just observationally, when you're out and you're drinking, your concept of time is obviously so different. So then I I just reach a point when I'm not drinking to where like I've been there and we've been kind of like on the dance floor or chatting with people and stuff for like two to three hours. And then I've kind of reached this point where I'm like, I think what I'm getting out of tonight I've gotten. Yeah. You know, where and I have that cognitive thought. Whereas I think when I'm drinking, or when it's somebody who's drinking, you just don't necessarily have that thought, or you maybe have that thought, but it's way the the timeline is like expanded. So you're maybe having that thought that like the the night's kind of over way later on.

SPEAKER_08 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:44

And so I definitely don't last as long. I definitely have been in situations where everyone's wanting to continue to party. I'm like, I think I'm good. Ready to go. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. I don't really get annoyed very easily with everyone for now. Except Popeyes. Who knows? Who knows what? Except Popeye skate. Um, I think that could change. I think that very much could change. I think I have a very I have a pretty high tolerance in general for like just not being annoyed with people.

SPEAKER_07 47:09

You're just very patient in your core.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah, I I really am like pretty patient as a person. And a lot of things that I'm observing you guys do or observing people do around me, I'm like, yeah, hell yeah, that is so fucking fun. Like it is still like fun to party. Like it is still fun. Like, no matter how you slice it. Yeah. So I'm also, yeah, I just drunk people are funny. Yeah. Right. Right. It is, yeah, it is fun. Just observations. You just like it's like people watching to the max too, sometimes. It is, especially in like a pride setting where everyone's been drinking all day.

SPEAKER_08 47:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:39

It's just like, wow. And then I also see some things like that people do that I know I was a very bad offender of. One thing being like spatial awareness and just like bumping into people and things like that. Where I'm like, man, I bet when you watch me. No, no, I think just in general, like all day at Pride, people on a dance floor, people, people in big crowds, just like bouncing around and not really realizing they're running into people. I I just see that kind of stuff, and I'm like, oh, I bet I was I bet I was so bad about that. Because I'm already a bowl in a China shop. So I cannot imagine.

SPEAKER_07 48:10

I have a friend who's dry.

SPEAKER_02 48:12

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_07 48:12

Um, I've talked about her journey a little bit. And something interesting that she went through was, and this was not with her really good friends, but kind of with like her newer friends or acquaintances, like they wanted her to drink. Like after she'd done a year sober, she like joked about like, oh, maybe for my year sober, like we get drunk, and they were all excited about it, or being like, Well, for my birthday, can you drink, please? Just have a couple beers.

SPEAKER_10 48:37

Yeah, like we're gonna drink for my birthday though, right? Right. That's a really bad thing.

SPEAKER_07 48:41

And I think it was a sign of like obviously that person who's saying that one maybe isn't thinking about the best things for you.

SPEAKER_08 48:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 48:48

And two, probably has an issue themselves. If your friend, like cutting down on anything, any sort of habit that isn't serving them, somehow makes you sad or upset or makes you feel like you're missing something, it's probably more so a reflection on whatever you have going on internally, right?

SPEAKER_02 49:04

I think a lot of people use it as like a it's they're like, well, they're drinking, so it's fine if I am. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or like they they're getting this drunk. Right. So it's okay if I'm this drunk. Yeah. So I think when people decide to not drink, sometimes it causes people. Yes. It causes other people to be like, should I be paying attention to that?

SPEAKER_07 49:21

It makes people uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_02 49:22

I definitely had a little bit of that, but I I very much in self-critically chalk it up to I didn't really explain to anybody that I was like actually trying to quit. I was more You're on the DL. Yeah, I was more like, oh, I'm just like deciding not to for whatever reason or another.

SPEAKER_07 49:37

I'm seeing what it's like.

SPEAKER_02 49:38

Right. Whereas when people said stuff like that to me, I think if they actually knew the situation I was in and I was like, no, I'm actually just trying to quit, I don't think they would have been that insensitive. Right. So I kind of always like thought about that or thought that of it was just like that's kind of where it was coming from. But watching other people's reaction to someone deciding to cut back or not do something is very illuminating sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 49:59

I I think so.

SPEAKER_02 50:00

There's two things since I quit drinking that I think people should be able to do. People don't have to drink if they don't want to, and people can go to bed when they want to.

SPEAKER_03 50:06

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

And remember that.

SPEAKER_07 50:08

You know what I mean? A sign of maturity. Welcome. Yeah. I remember being in my young 20s and being a drink pusher just because again, culturally, you're like, Yeah, let's do a shot. Let's blah blah blah. And it's gross. You have to mature and realize like, yeah, people can do whatever they want to, and it's we don't need to shame them.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Right. Period.

SPEAKER_07 50:27

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Mm-hmm. One other thing. I don't know if I'll put this in. I think I've definitely learned what people are my friends and what people I like to be around because we're partying. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 50:37

There's like talk about this. Talk about like, I feel like you really noticed quality time and conversations. Yeah. Aside from outside of drinking culture. Yeah. Which I think is probably a safety net for you can tie that into queer culture. There's a safety net when you're all drinking, it's like, I don't have to be that serious. I don't have to get in these deep conversations. It's not a first date. I'm connecting with queer people at a pretty surface level by like dancing and having fun. But I I would say the sobriety part of it, you do have to kind of like carry a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Yeah. I think it's very evident to me when I'm going into all those situations, not drinking, that I can tell the people that even internally I am excited to talk to and be around and have conversations with deep conversations, bits, things like that. Yeah. Versus the people that are very much like, I thought we were kind of close, but I'm now realizing that every time I see you, we're in a party setting and we're small talking about the same stuff that we've small talked about every time we see each other for the last two years.

SPEAKER_10 51:34

I think your sobriety has helped you determine who you really want to dedicate your quality to. Yes, very much. Absolutely. And not like you don't want to hang out with other people by any means, but it just to kind of like there's some clarity there being like I really have time beyond alcohol of like this is fun because of I'm drunk. Right. Versus like I'm getting enjoyment because of the people I'm spending time with. Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:53

Yeah. Which I think is why it's such a testament to like our friends, is even if like I'm not drinking and everyone else is drinking, when we're at Pride or things like that, we're still very much having like fun, quality time experiences.

SPEAKER_07 52:05

You're not feeling excluded.

SPEAKER_02 52:06

No, I'm not feeling excluded, which is really helpful too. I think if I was feeling really excluded, I think it would be very yes, I would not be coming, or it'd be a very much a different struggle of the journey part.

SPEAKER_07 52:17

Right. Which would be valid. I feel like a lot of people do feel that way. Or it's just like once you take the drunk goggles off, you look around and you're like, what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_08 52:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 52:26

And that's why sober spaces do exist, and sober party spaces exist now. Thank God. Right. And there's there's even like a sober sapphics group in Seattle, you know? Like I think there is this trying to shift the culture or create pockets of counterculture within queer culture. And I hope that exists for people in smaller places.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

But I also want to be very clear. I don't think everyone needs to be sober and should be sober. Yeah. You know, like I don't think people are like preach. I just don't think people are doing anything wrong by drinking necessarily. That's what I've been saying. I've never done anything wrong while drunk.

SPEAKER_05 52:55

Isaac's hit a wall. He's just saying, period, and preach. We're having a conversation.

SPEAKER_10 52:59

Yeah. I just like I don't You know why? Because I drank at the airport lounge all day yesterday on my way home.

SPEAKER_05 53:05

You know how I know?

SPEAKER_10 53:06

I'm sleepy. I got this last night.

SPEAKER_02 53:09

Shut up. But it's not. Let me see it night.

SPEAKER_05 53:11

It made me laugh. It made me laugh.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

Oh my god. I know what I'm getting into Snapchat. For those of you that are just listening, Isaac came home from a flight last night where he had some drinks at the airport lounge, and then I think on the airplane. And then he got home, and very rarely does this happen. I don't know if it was like the way the winds were in our room. But we were going to bed and he was just on his phone doing his Duolingo, and I sent Ariel Snapchat that just says he smells boozy.

SPEAKER_10 53:35

I will say my Spanish is a way better when I'm drunk. Is it? Yeah, because you have that little thing in the front of your brain that like that uh not inebriate inhibits. Yeah. Everything that you're like, I'm too nervous about to talk like this. Um inhibition. Release your inhibitions. Release your inhibitions. Alcohol really, as soon as I have like two margaritas, my Spanish is better.

SPEAKER_07 53:56

And I'm I'm always speaking French in Ubers, and it's not a good quality.

SPEAKER_02 54:00

You do love an Uber chat. I feel like I learned about that about you this year. Really, it showed when we were in Las Vegas. I was like, ooh, Ariel likes to strike up a conversation.

SPEAKER_10 54:07

Which you love to call it strike up a conversation with anyone because like this is Ariel walking around cried last weekend going, Oh my god. You guys, this is my gay brother Isaac. Oh my god, talk to it, talk to him.

SPEAKER_07 54:17

I walked up to probably a completely stone cold silver couple. This is kid.

SPEAKER_02 54:22

This is when I needed to turn in. This is good, which I wish we would have actually got their information. It was a bit, and then it turned into real.

SPEAKER_04 54:28

And they were spooked by me.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Yeah, they were immediately they were like, oh they were giving her nothing.

SPEAKER_07 54:36

And I think I was just like, My friend has a podcast.

SPEAKER_10 54:38

Yeah, yeah. That was the introduction. Yes, it was. That always goes well.

SPEAKER_07 54:43

Great. Another man with a podcast.

SPEAKER_10 54:45

I know someone, another male on the podcast.

SPEAKER_07 54:47

But it turns out they were gay parents, and I was like, we want to have you on the podcast. And then we never got the information.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

I remember because they were gay parents that had just had their fourth annual pride party for gay parents. I love that. He said there was like 50 kids there and 20 adults. But then Ariel was like, let's exchange information and then it didn't work. Yeah, I know I got it. Totally saved it. We just walked away.

SPEAKER_10 55:08

Went home soon after.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

What was I saying right before that though? Oh, I just want to be really clear. Like, my mentality is also not like I'm not looking down on people that are drinking. I don't feel like people should everyone's like should stop. I don't feel like everyone has a problem. I very much internally learned that it just did not agree with me. Right.

SPEAKER_07 55:25

I never feel that from you either.

SPEAKER_02 55:27

And I wish good, that's good. Because I that is one thing I really don't want to be, is I don't ever want to come across or feel and think, because I don't think this. Yeah. Right. That everyone else, that I have this like moral high ground because I decide not to drink and other people do. You know what I mean? Right. I do know what you mean. Unless you're in lineup, Popeyes. Do I make you feel like that?

SPEAKER_10 55:43

One time. Very specifically. Get in the line. Wake it up. Wake it up. I will say this very succinctly. Nope. We don't have to bring it in. Okay. One time we were driving home and Aaron and I had a great time. And I was a little drunky, and I was calling her FaceTiming, and I was all Tyler was in the line at Popeyes ordering, and we were just being closed. That was actually after three days of pride. I totally get he had had enough patience with drunk people, and I was the only one left in the car. And eventually he grabbed the phone and hung up on Ariel. And then we did the phone.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

You were being particularly fresh. So then I called her back and went back. We got up to the window. I didn't know what this bitch did. We hadn't even got to the window yet. I stopped before because I know the person's going to ask me what we want, and we haven't discussed what we want. And Isaac's on the phone with Ariel. I go, You can't order here. Isaac goes, you know, this isn't the order spot, right? I said, Yes, I do. I'm just making sure that we have everything. Before we go up there, we get up there, Isaac continues to talk out loud to Ariel on the phone. The poor woman who's trying to take my order. I like say one thing. She goes, What? I say it again. She goes, What? So I go, Shh. Then I turn back. I say it again. Isaac keeps talking. And then and then that's when I kind of started to lose my cool. So then I turned again. I went, You guys shut the fuck up. And then I went back. And then a third time, Isaac continued to talk. And so I yanked the phone out of his hand. I hung up, hung up on Ariel, finished the order, give it back to him. And then he calls her back.

SPEAKER_07 57:08

And so I'm on the other end. I haven't had a drink. I because I'm recovering from pride the night before. And and I'm like, oh, they're calling me back. Cool. Then as soon as I answered the phone, I could tell the dynamic was Isaac was being a smart ass and he was tipsy. And Tyler was, and he's never like this, but he was not there for it. He was over it and then we can chill.

SPEAKER_10 57:27

I will say though that he fucking loves a joke in a bit when it's him. That's all fine. That's fair. I mean, but this one time it was like Aaron and I were having a great time and laughing, and then now we can't because the woman at Popeyes. That's fine.

SPEAKER_02 57:38

She heard you every time. I just know, I just know if the roles were reversed, and you had asked me very directly three times to be quiet for a moment. So you could do something that you were ultimately doing for me, getting me food, I think I would lock in.

SPEAKER_07 57:50

Especially with your temper.

SPEAKER_02 57:51

So then Ariel, yeah. So then Ariel gets back. Ariel gets back on the phone and it's very evident very early that I actually was not laughing about it yet. And so I what did I say? I can't remember.

SPEAKER_07 58:02

You said, Do you really think Do you really think I'm in the mood for this right now? Something like that. And I went, oop.

SPEAKER_10 58:07

Would you say that's the first time you ever actually you go, I'm not getting into this. I don't want to air.

SPEAKER_07 58:12

I don't think I can get into this. Love you guys. Have fun. And you said, thank you, Ariel.

SPEAKER_10 58:16

And I was like, That's when he was like, it's so fucking serious. Where it's like, are you for real right now? Right now is the moment where you're gonna pull the dad card today at Popeyes.

SPEAKER_07 58:25

Well, it's very when you guys have kids, it's gonna be real chilling to the bone when you get like that.

SPEAKER_02 58:29

Exactly. It's effective. It's gonna work. It's so effective because I don't do it very often.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

But on everyone else.

SPEAKER_02 58:34

I don't do it very often, but when I do, people shut up and listen. Totally. Shut that is shut up and listen. Remember Lily from Princess Diaries? Anyways, also I think part of it too that I've realized, and I'm just seeing too when we go out, is I'm often not the only sober one. Yeah. Or non-drinker.

SPEAKER_10 58:50

Yeah, it's becoming more common.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

Yeah, it's definitely becoming more common, and it's definitely becoming more common about people that just want to do it. They don't like the feel the way the way they feel necessarily when they drink, or it's just like not their idea of fun, I guess. Yeah, which is crazy to me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 59:03

And as we know, like the sentiment is that like the generation younger Nas, Gen Z, is not drinking near as much as Arger. Like alcohol companies are freaking out by consumer behavior to figure out how they're gonna I know. Like that's why on the menu you have $17 mocktails now because they're trying to recuperate. Well, or just like so many NA options, which is great. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_07 59:21

Our buddy Vanessa, yeah, who lives in Sacramento, she works at a winery in January, is always so difficult for the winery because that's when people are doing sober January, starting over, New Year's resolutions, and also she's talked about with this younger generation too. Like it's real tough out here for mom and pop wineries, specifically, like in her line of work.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

Interested me to see like where it lies when like our niece and nephews become 21, right?

SPEAKER_10 59:50

Like what do you think it'll look like? I do think one thing we've just learned is like alcohol is just as dangerous and bad of a drug as any of them.

SPEAKER_02 59:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_10 59:56

Habitually for our health for sure. But it'll be really interesting just to kind of see what happens and how like the world changes.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

I also will say one byproduct that I think is interesting, and not to toot my own horn, but a little bit, is I do think even just me deciding to not drink and going back to like family stuff, family lake weeks, it definitely has spawned some thoughts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:13

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

And just curiosity from like my family or my cousins. My cousins are very interested in being like, like I have two specifically that last family lake week, rather than being like, oh my god, I'm so sorry you have a problem. There's a lot more thought process around them being like, What's that like? Yeah, like they're interested and they're like, hmm, what would it be like if I tried that? I think it definitely has spawned some like interest and conversation too, just around it all within like our family.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:37

Because we talked about like, did you have any examples growing up of people that were just like living sober lives, living sober lives because? And the answer is no. I think now we do, like we just have a lot more. Um, even for like my niece or nephew, or I think even my family, and like it's just like multiple people now are just like, oh, I don't really drink. And those who want to drink and partake absolutely can and do, and it's very like a conducive culture for everyone to hang out in the way that they want to hang out. So I think you've been a big part of that.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:04

For sure.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:05

It's only at positive effects for you and the people around you. I am curious how y'all are gonna tackle the topic with your kids one day. You have a lot of time to think about it, but it'll be interesting. I definitely see y'all being like, okay, let's all get drunk one night.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:21

Tonight's including me. They're 15. They're 15. It's like they don't want it to be.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

They're like, dad's planned relapse.

SPEAKER_10 1:01:26

You have to do it. You must. Sorry, Tyler. I'm gonna run it just like drunk at Palooza. Everyone has one kid's doing wine, one kid's doing beer, and I'm gonna say, now you see how terrible this is. All right. No, but yeah, that was uh a lot. So thank you for sharing all that. I feel like it's gonna be really I feel like a lot of people that know you really well have never had been able to sit down with you and have you really talk about your experience into sobriety. And so I mean, if Ariel hasn't, then who has it? I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

I know I'm also just really proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. I am proud of myself. I do look around sometimes being like, wow, I can't believe I just kind of was able to just do that. I know, yeah, right? Because it feels it feels so daunting. It feels like such a far out ability, you know.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:07

When you're in it, it feels impossible. Yeah, yeah. And especially I think to the idea of like, how am I gonna be social and be around people?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

How am I gonna maintain my friendships? Right. Yeah, yeah, because so much of it is immersed in that it doesn't have to be. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:21

And I think the great thing about aging too is like we're all diversifying our hobbies, and also a lot of us are just being more intentional with drinking in general and being like, we don't have to have alcohol at this get together.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:31

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:32

We don't have to drink in the morning, yeah. You know, yeah, not every hobby needs to have that element.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:37

Yeah, yeah. I think we should wrap it up with Song of the Week.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:41

Well, I had an org to talk about.

SPEAKER_10 1:02:43

Yeah. Talk about them.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:44

And I just found this info online, but there's a national org that's called Gay and Sober.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:49

And they're kind of like a connector org and an education org for queer people.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:54

I think it started with gay men long ago, but now it's expanded to everybody under the gay umbrella, the rainbow umbrella, struggling with any type of substance use. Okay. So it's not just around alcohol, but it's connecting you with a local group, basically.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:07

Oh, it's like here's the network. And it's where it looks like.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:13

And if there isn't one, then there's a plenty online and it's all super accessible on there.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:18

I'm sure they do a ton more around education, but I thought that was really interesting.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:21

Like what was the website again?

SPEAKER_07 1:03:22

Let me find the actual URL.

SPEAKER_10 1:03:24

And do they have Instagram? Bemilik.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:26

I'm sure they're a huge org. I got you. They're a community nonprofit that serves LGBTQIA plus in recovery from alcoholism and drug addiction. They sponsor events. There's a meeting directory with a bunch of members, but a big part of their website is their kind of their meeting finder. Um, and you can go by state, but it's also international, so they have other countries as well. You can start your own meeting if you and it has tips on how to do that there if what you're looking for isn't out there. But they have every state listed, and I was looking at Montana earlier at what cities had established meetings.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:00

They're on Instagram as just gay and sober at spelled out and sober, both on Twitter as well. Okay. I think we should wrap it up. Let's do Song of the Week. If you don't have one, I got one, but get into it. You can go first. No, you can go if you got one. I don't need to get one.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:13

The only one that I was gonna do is Okay, so I love Olivia Reviga.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:16

Oh, yeah, talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Talk about it. We had a fun sex exchange while Isaac on the plane last night. Sex exchange, text exchange while Isaac was on the plane last night.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:24

Four Negronies in. Yeah. Anyways, I have like weird pop girlies that I like fall into because I'm kind of like not the traditional esque, but one that I do fuck with he's different, is Olivia Arrigo. Okay. I do love her. I love every album of hers. I think she's such a cool, like cross-generational of bringing two things together via sound. And her new album is really, really good. And I and Tyler and I were talking about this. We're like, I bet 60, 70% of listeners don't necessarily pick up on this, but she very much the whole album is very influenced by the cure.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:57

Yes. She has a cure on one of the songs, the singer.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:00

There's yep, and there's a song called The Cure, and she alludes to just like heaven in the first song within the lyrics. And then is it you plus me equals love? Is that how you would call it? That song is like very, very no, it's you plus me equals dollar sign three.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:16

Less than three. Oh. The whole song is got it. Okay. Period, period.

SPEAKER_10 1:05:21

Um preach. Anyways, that whole song very much is like sound wise very the cure. And I think that is so cool for someone that is that young. Like it's cool when I just love when artists do this. I like Slater did it with her new album. It very much sounds like she was very specific. She's like, this is very much an homage to the B-52s, and you can like hear it. Oh, cool. And then same thing with Olivia. Like, it's just like you can hear the cure. And I like to know the cure pretty well because my mom really liked the cure. And then also I love The Wedding Singer, is one of my favorite movies. And that has like a ton of cure music in it. So I just I think it's crazy that someone that young has that tie-in connection, but like does it really well.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:01

So, what's your song?

SPEAKER_10 1:06:02

The one I really like is You Plus Me Equals Love. Is that what you say?

SPEAKER_07 1:06:05

Is that the one that has the lead singer of the cure? No.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:07

Like there's so many things that are like multiple. There's a song called The Cure, there's that song with him on it, and then there's there's actual lyrics that talk about it. There's so many things.

SPEAKER_09 1:06:16

That is really cool. That's really good. I think it's really cool when you get really get into something. I'm just you know how I get passionate about music.

SPEAKER_10 1:06:23

Yeah. It's very nice. Sometimes I do have to talk to our friends. Everyone always looks at Tyler and I go, Hey, I like music too. And they go, No, you don't.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Shut up. Uh I would like to shout out Robin because I am having still having a total moment with Robin over her last album, Sexistential. And I don't think I've talked about it yet because it came out during the off season.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:45

But it is so scratched Tyler individual's brain, like so wet with robotic computer-y production. It's just like crunchy, so good. I love it. Electronic. So yeah, I would say to shout out a specific tracker really like the song really real.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

But yeah, shout out Robin. I know you've been a huge prominent figure in the pop scene for a long time. And I I know like the hits.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:12

Especially the queer pop scene.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

Especially the queer pop scene.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:14

I don't know if she is queer. I think queer people identify so much with her music.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:20

Lesbians, especially.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

Yes. But she's been, I mean, she's had I know the hits, and I knew the hits before this. Now I know everything. But this specific album really has just taken me there with Robin. It's she's so good. Swedish, something's going on in Sweden, you guys. You are obsessed with a Swedish artist. I mean, come on. Abba, Robin, Zara, Tovlo.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:39

No, Kim's German. Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:40

Kim's German. Um, but yeah, okay. I think that's it.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:44

No?

SPEAKER_10 1:07:44

Do you want to do one? Do you want to take us out or do you want to do one?

SPEAKER_07 1:07:46

No, I'll take y'all out. Thank you for doing that, Tyler. Of course.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:50

Yeah, that was great. For me too.

SPEAKER_07 1:07:52

Good. If you want to talk to us after this, you can email us. Is that what you say?

SPEAKER_10 1:07:58

Yeah, for about 45 episodes now. Email hasn't fucking changed. It's the same.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:03

Gays in no gays in Montana at Yahoo.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:06

Gmail.com. Who the fuck started a Yahoo in 2022. Okay, take us out.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:12

Take us out. I don't like doing it.

SPEAKER_10 1:08:14

All right, everyone. I think that's it for the episode. Uh as always, hopefully you found some things to connect to within queer culture and drinking and rural culture and drinking. So please, please, please write into us. We've starting to see more of that. DM us on Instagram, send an email. We'd love to read your emails. Just let us know you want it to be read. Anyone that we met at Pride or didn't meet, but they saw that we were at Pride. Like we just want to hear from listeners so much because it's just it's great. And I feel like it really motivates us to keep going for sure. So totally. Yeah. So with that, as always, you can email us at no gaze in Montana at gmail.com or on all socials, no gays in Montana. So I think that's a wrap. See y'all soon.