Bird Flu & Backyard Flocks: What Every Poultry Nerd Needs to Know (with Dr. Teresa Morishita)

Everything You Need to Know About Bird Flu in Backyard Chickens 🐔 | Poultry Nerds Podcast w/ Dr. Teresa Morishita

In this episode of the Poultry Nerds Podcast, we sit down with Dr. Teresa Morishita, a poultry veterinarian and professor of poultry medicine and food safety, to answer all your burning questions about avian influenza (H5N1) and how it affects backyard poultry flocks.

👉 What is bird flu and how does it spread?
 👉 Can humans catch bird flu from chickens?
 👉 What are the symptoms of avian influenza in chickens?
 👉 How can you protect your flock with biosecurity?
 👉 Do backyard flocks really get infected — and what happens if they do?
 👉 Is a vaccine coming?

This deep-dive is packed with valuable tips for chicken keepers, homesteaders, exhibition breeders, and anyone who loves their birds. 🐣💛

🔬 Featuring real science, real talk, and a lot of nerdy chicken goodness.
 🧠 Learn how to build a flock health plan, spot symptoms early, and why “they’re dead” might be the first sign of something serious.

📍 Guest: Dr. Theresa Morishita, DVM – Professor at Western University of Health Sciences College of Veterinary Medicine
 🎙️ Hosts: Your favorite Poultry Nerds

Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more feathered facts!

#BirdFlu #AvianInfluenza #BackyardChickens #ChickenHealth #Biosecurity #PoultryVeterinarian #FlockManagement #H5N1 #PoultryPodcast #ChickenKeepers #HomesteadChickens #PoultryNerds #VeterinaryMedicine #PoultryCare

Transcript

Jennifer: 0:00

All right. Poultry nerds. We're here with the episode you guys have been waiting for. We have a special guest today. A poultry veterinarian, Dr. Theresa Morishita. Welcome, Dr. Morishita. How are you?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 0:15

Welcome and thanks for inviting me to your podcast.

Jennifer: 0:19

You are very welcome. We're excited to have you. I answer all these questions. People made a list, so we're gonna get to that shortly. Okay. So tell us about yourself. I

Carey: 0:27

get really excited about these podcasts because I really like to nerd out when we have people that know all the facts. So I'm super excited.

Jennifer: 0:40

Okay, so tell us about yourself. Where are you?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 0:43

I I am located, I'm a professor of poultry medicine and food safety, and I'm located in Pomona, California. I work at the College of Veterinary Medicine of Western University of Health Sciences.

Jennifer: 0:59

Nice. Are you originally from California?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 1:05

No, I'm originally from Hawaii and of course I went to my undergraduate education in Hawaii, but Hawaii doesn't have a vet school, so I went to California and attended vet school at the University of California at Davis.

Jennifer: 1:21

Nice. And you've been at the Western University for a long time?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 1:26

I've been there. State University. Okay, say that again'cause it cut out. So how long have you been at the Western University? I've been at Western University since 2006. And prior to that I was at the Ohio State University.

Jennifer: 1:45

We've asked you to come on today to answer all the questions about the bird flu. Okay. I'll do my best. Now we're talking about the backyard people, not like commercial stuff. But I know they crossed paths just a little bit. Yes. So explain exactly what it is. Can you do that?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 2:06

It's a big thing right now, avian influenza. It's hitting a, as you can see, a lot of the commercial, but I know also for the backyard flocks. So basically avian influenza is caused by a type of disease agent called a virus, and it's called the Avian Influenza Virus. Some of you may have heard like the name H five N one. So that just tells you the specific type of virus that's involved in this disease. Okay. Can I interrupt you for one second? Sure. So explain to me what the H, the five, the n, and the one all stands for. Okay. The virus. Let's think of it as a, an orange.

Jennifer: 2:57

Okay.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 2:58

And on the surface of these orange are all these different types of protein. So the h. Stands for a type of protein called hemagglutinin. And so let's just say it's represented by, have you ever heard of those poder balls? Like orange, and sometimes during Christmas, people stick cloves all over it. To have that kind of. Scent in the house for Christmas time, right? So just think of this clove as one little protein spike. So you stick it in the orange and they're all over the orange surface. So that's a hemagglutinin protein. And then the other protein that's important in classifying the influenza virus is like a, let's say a nail could be a flathead nail or something, right? And those represent. Another type of protein called nease, and those are all on the surface of the orange. Now that there are different types of patterns. There's 16 different types of this clove type inserts on the orange, and then there are nine different possible types. So the type that we see that is. Happening throughout the United States is the type five of the Hemagglutinin protein, and the other one is the Neuraminidase. So that's type one. Okay. So that's H five N one. That's how you name the influenza virus. And that's important because we have a lot of researchers there that are especially. The United States Department of Agriculture, they're looking at the different types and how they're spread. And you'll, you notice that there's another one in Mississippi that was found, right? I didn't notice, but I believe you, the H seven and nine, right? Yeah,

Carey: 5:03

they found the H seven there.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 5:05

Oh, wow. Yeah, so that's the the number seven of the hemagglutinin. See, so the common one was eight. The one that we see is H five. So remember I told you there's 16 different types, so that's the H seven on that one. And these viruses, they can reassort different ones. And we find that some of those patterns, like the H five N one, we call that highly pathogenic, that means it causes a lot of disease when it happens in poultry. So that's what we're worried about, you'll also hear the term low pathogenic, and those viruses actually can be carried. The different assortments, not the H five N one variety, but maybe some other numbers. And they can be carried in like waterfowl and they don't even show any signs at all. The birds are healthy. We call that low pathogenic, but because the viruses always mutate, then, we have to watch out that those low pathogenic ones do not become high pathogenic. So in the past, if you find a flock that. Is a low pathogenic or any avian influenza, they normally will remove it to try and protect the rest of the flocks in the nation.

Jennifer: 6:27

So if my doing some quick math on the top of my head, if the H has 16 variety patterns and the N has nine, then that's roughly 150. Options. Does that sound right?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 6:43

Yeah. So a virus can be H one and then it can be N one and two, and three, and four, and five, and six, and seven, eight, and nine.

Jennifer: 6:54

And then you

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 6:54

go to H two and that can have the same thing. If you've got the calculator. Yes.

Jennifer: 6:59

Yeah. So that's roughly 150 or so. And so is it still mutating? Could it be two oh different options next year?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 7:09

No, so far we find that there are 16 H type and nine N type.

Jennifer: 7:17

Gotcha.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 7:18

So we have that combination,

Jennifer: 7:20

okay. Alright.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 7:21

And those protein, why are we looking at the protein?'cause those proteins help the virus. Once it gets into the body, it can get to the body. These helps. Its that's why those are important surface proteins on that

Jennifer: 7:36

virus. Gotcha. Okay. So let's talk about how it spreads then. So it's being spread through wild birds.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 7:46

Yes. The original H five N one, we know that waterfowl were the initial carriers, but not only traditionally the waterfowl are, and they can carry pathogenic ones and they can carry non-pathogenic. They're just a source of the influenza and that's their normal host. But when they have the. Very virulent one. That's when it can have die-offs in the waterfall flock, and it can spread to other bird species. And as we see them in other mammals as well too. But I want to also. Know that we think waterfalls are bad, but initially when we had the H five N one they also found that other shorebirds could also be important in the transmission, especially near the Great Lakes they had like seagulls and that were found to be positive. If you're doing any type of activity and you see these birds, so one of things like as part of the education and preventing that, if you like hunting ducks, that's good. If you want, you like that activity. If you like boating or you like birdwatching. You're gonna go into these areas. So you have to be very cautious that if you wear clothes or your boots or shoes in that area, you don't wanna use that same shoes in your poultry, right? Because that's gonna bring potential disease agents like this NT influenza to your flocks. So we have to watch the types of activities that we don't. Inadvertently bring disease in. So think about where the sources are. And I remember being in certain areas, there's a lot of Canada geese that stay in that area and maybe water fowl that are in ponds. And maybe you go in a family picnic or something and you're running around and you can't help but step and do and waterfowl poop, right?

Jennifer: 9:57

'cause

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 9:57

sometimes they're all over. And so you wanna make sure that you're cautious about bringing that dirty shoe or that has stepped in waterfowl poop or seabird poop into your flocks. Okay? So that's one of the things we think about for biosecurity.

Jennifer: 10:21

What about when they just fly over like we have, I have land and we have a huge flock of Canadian geese that live on the property behind us. So they're always flying over.

Dr. Theresa Morita: 10:32

Yes. That's a, that's another way. When we think about how can, how does our farm get these germs in? So one of it is that we go out and we bring it back, right? And we always know that shoes and clothing can be one source. The other one is you're talking about the environment.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 10:50

So look at your environment. What is coming over, what is contaminating your farm? So not a lot would be like. You have exposure because you have birds, right? They're a, like a nearby pond or natural body of water that they congregate as they migrate north and as they migrate south. Okay, so there's big four major Pacific, or sorry, four major flyways where the waterfalls go back and forth in the United States, Atlanta, Mississippi, central Pacific, and so farms like yours in that area that might have a lot of birds migrating. Yes.

Jennifer: 11:31

So we live in their world and we just have to deal with it.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 11:34

Yeah. Now we do, as working with bird diseases, we always can, we always know that. And there are other diseases that if we have poultry or even. Flocks of ducks or geese that we have. We wanna make sure that the diseases that our pets or our flocks don't give it to the wildlife. Because as you can see, once you give it to the wildlife, they spread it all over and you can't, there's. Tons of'em, right? Flying over for the migration. So now we have the H five N one established. So for us, being on the ground, watching them fly over, you have to watch out, of potential.

Jennifer: 12:16

So how much poop does it take to contaminate a space and how long does it live on the ground?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 12:24

When they fly. So let's just talk about how it spreads in the waterfowl. So if you've got one infected duck and they're, of course they're pooping around and the other,'cause sometimes they come in flocks of 300,000 or something. So one might be infected and so maybe a little neighbor comes next to them and then they might interact or they might be picking. Food or whatever, and they get infected, so then it spreads that way, and so now you have to infect it, spreading it to the population, so how do you get that? So let's just say you had one infected duck and he sheds over your property. Maybe your chickens are not in the area, so lucky for you, right? But if your chickens are, or ducks are out there, pecking around, or they're in the same or near the vicinity of that duck pond or whatever, then there's potential. Spread. So it's, we always call diseases like it's a numbers game. The more exposure birds have or exposure more likely you will get that.

Jennifer: 13:34

Now I have ducks that free range my property as the geese are flying over. And the

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 13:40

other geese are extract, attract it. Oh, there's ducks down there, and they go down,

Jennifer: 13:45

yep. Because they do, you can't

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 13:46

help them when they're migrating. They're coming up long distances. They're gonna look for ponds. Oh. A place to rest. A place to eat. Until I go further up on my journey. So that's why they say if you have natural ponds and stuff, it's hard. So we know like for some zoos that have a lot of these natural birds some people have even unfortunately they've closed the ponds, but that's. That's hard for migrating birds. So they've closed the ponds or they've have trained dogs that chase the Canada geese away, or the waterfowl away.

Jennifer: 14:27

That's what I have

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 14:28

other, yeah. Others have tactics to make it a non pleasant things. So some of the things that, how can we work with nature when they migrate and yet protect. Our flocks and some people have put like things way far away so the birds go at a further distance and don't come near like a commercial or backyard flocks, but it's harder for backyard owners because they're everywhere. But I know like for commercial, we don't wanna have like artificial ponds or whatever that may attract the wildlife. Interesting. Yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so let's talk about symptoms now. Some people concerned about early warning signs. Now I'm known from being blunt in when people meet me and stuff. And so somebody asks me, what's an early warning sign? And I typically just say they're dead.

Jennifer: 15:26

Is that a pretty accurate sign that you have it?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 15:29

If you have the highly patented, pathogenic avian influenza, they are, they will be dead. That's one of the first things you know, so you're true. In finding that, so everybody knows their flock, and so you're gonna know when the birds are off. So one of the first signs that birds are not feeling well is that they're gonna stop eating, drinking, stop laying eggs, right? So if you notice a difference like that, you could say, Ooh, something's wrong. This doesn't mean you have avian influenza, but you could say, oh, some kind of illness.'cause birds, they're gonna be not eating, not drinking. Not laying eggs if you've got layers, and then they might be huddled up, they're feathers. If you've got chickens, they're fluffed up. They hunched down. You have that sick chicken pose, right? Some, something is, or they're gonna be down on the ground lethargic, so you know something's wrong. You got some kind of disease going on. We do know that for the avian influenza, it's usually when it's a highly pathogenic one, you will see death loss. So they'll be dead and you'll say, what happened? My flock was fine, and then they're all dead, so if you have something like that, then I know that every state in the United States has a diagnostic lab. So you gotta go where your state diagnostic lab is. And I believe that most counties have like an extension agent, right? And you contact your local agent, you can contact your local veterinarian, they can help you to report that as well too. But we do want to catch, potential outbreaks right away. So what will happen is that we can suspect. Even influenza and then they'll have people that come out and test it to see if it is or not,

Jennifer: 17:24

okay.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 17:24

So you probably don't wanna go in there and say, oh, I wanna see it now you open the birds up. Probably not when you see a lot of dead, and you wanna have somebody trained to do that.

Jennifer: 17:36

So will the state come in and eradicate your whole flock if they find that you have it?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 17:42

Currently that was the procedure. Because these are all we have to call our state and the federal veterinarian to be involved and they work on it now. It's hard. Yes, they have to get rid of that because the principle of that is that if they get rid of sources, then it won't go to your neighbor's farm. And spread. We're seeing more and more. That's why in the early part of the H five and even now, you'll see a lot of depopulation, especially in the larger farms, because they're trying to control that spread from to other farms or to backyard. Poultry flocks, and that's a hard thing for the backyard, poultry, because you bond with your birds too. And some of you have grown your birds, especially the exhibition, poultry, certain genetic things that you have, right?

Jennifer: 18:40

Oh yeah. Does it pass vertically through the egg?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 18:45

No, this is more it can, but this is more respiratory. Okay. And I didn't finish with the signs, but the main ones with,

Jennifer: 18:55

the main one's dead right? Respiratory,

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 18:58

well dead. But if they, you see them alive, they're gonna have severe respiratory, so hard time breathing. Breathing with the open mouth, right? And then it also passes through the intestines, so the feces. And in the more severe forms you can see them bloody diarrhea. Okay.

Jennifer: 19:18

So that mimics a lot of other diseases though, those symptoms. Yeah.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 19:24

Yeah.

Jennifer: 19:25

Yeah. So what if you had, and I'm just gonna, and coughing

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 19:28

out blood. Oh. And then the third one is neurologic signs. So the head will be twisting, like we call that like a stargazing, like their head is twisted up. Oh, okay. Okay. So the avian influenza has three clinical. Forms the neurologic with your head twisting up, they have the digestive issues and then they have respiratory. They can have one or all three. So you see that kind of me thing in your flock, more likely you have avian influenza. So that's why Can you distinguish it right away from others? I always say that. Virulent Newcastle can also be like that. And that's also a concern. At least here in California, and it's, to me, it's just as important. It's a exotic disease coming into the United States, and those are very similar. The only way you need, you gotta take it to the lab. So you brought the question about. It's very similar to other diseases. So you should know your farm. What kind of diseases do you have? And if you see anything unusual, so bloody diarrhea, oh God, could be coccidia, right? So take a look at the birds. If there's a lot, if you see neurological sign now, co city is not gonna have respiratory difficulties. You're not gonna see them like open mouth breathing or something, puffy heads. So that's how we would look at the birds and you can tell that, but that's where it's important to at least work with a local veterinarian or someone. Some states are really helpful for the backyard. Flock. So get to know your state and what they can do for, the individual flock owners. Because some states they have programs where backyard flock owners can send birds or whatever, or but for whether it's Cox City or not, your local veterinarian can do a fecal exam or, but you know best because you work with your birds every day.

Jennifer: 21:47

Observation. Yeah. We preach that

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 21:49

a lot. Observation.

Carey: 21:52

Knowing

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 21:52

and knowing what's normal.

Jennifer: 21:54

Yes.

Carey: 21:54

Yeah. Now, one question I have

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 21:58

Yeah.

Carey: 21:59

Is there anything you can do from a nutritional standpoint to build up a strong immune system in your bird? I. To try to prevent that or prevent them from getting any kind of diseases.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 22:41

I know that some researchers are looking at what do you call that? More immune strain or less susceptible to certain diseases. But that's not in the general population. And most backyard flux have you like a certain breed or you like your certain genetic exhibition poultry that you have, yeah. That type of, is a lot of research and a lot of money going into that research develop. Potential strains, but that's happening more like in the commercial,

Jennifer: 23:16

that makes sense. Money talks. That's

Carey: 23:19

right.

Jennifer: 23:21

Alright.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 23:22

But they, but the only, yeah, the only thing for backyard flock is if, certain breeds are more resistant or whatever, through your own observation. Gotcha.

Jennifer: 23:34

All right, so let's talk about what some, what you can do to protect your backyard flocks.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 23:41

So what you could do to protect your backyard flock. The number one is biosecurity. So bio stands for life and security implies some sort of protection. So basically, like we talked about how to prevent germs from getting germs of the virus from getting into your flock and vice versa, how to stop your, if you have a disease from it spreading to your neighbors, right?

Jennifer: 24:11

cause we

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 24:11

all want to be responsible flock owners. And so we talked about being conscious of what we do and what kind of activities we do, and. We wanna make sure that whatever clothes we wear and shoes are clean when we're dealing with our animals, right? So that's number one. And you may have seen pictures in the commercial industry. We wear Tyvek suits whenever we go to a farm, boots and stuff. Now you don't have to go to that degree, but you can have a dedicated clothes that you use for your flocks and not for working with other birds, and the other one too is knowing the source of your birds that are coming in. A lot of the people that you should know what is my background diseases that I have in my flock, so I know what potential some of them have you heard of the disease mycoplasma? So there's a lot of. While there's less in commercial industry in the backyard flock, there's not as much regulations in part of the National Poultry improvement plan. So some of, most of the birds are mycoplasma positive. So if you've got mycoplasma positive free, positive birds, it's your birds, so you're gonna keep them. But you have to realize that I might have to be more. Careful of how I house my birds at night, that I wanna make sure that there's enough ventilation that especially in the wintertime, there's not ammonia buildup that can cause or the mycoplasma can or exacerbate that and they will get like more prone to respiratory diseases. So just knowing what diseases you have and so what potentially makes you a risk factor. Okay. So knowing your birds, getting, trying to get the best source that you can feeding them good quality food because we do know and probably carry no excessive nutritionist if you don't give good food quality their immune system, they can't fully develop their immune system as well, right? And, clean water. Always clean water because, if you don't keep your water at shoulder level for birds they have a tendency they can poop in it and whatever that bird has, whatever disease can spread through the flock. So you wanna make sure that your water is lifted, at least shoulder high for the chickens so that they can drink. Without pooping in that container. And then you try to clean that container if you can, daily. That's always good hygiene. So you're keeping your birds well. And the other thing, like you said, is being aware, am I under a fly zone or not? Do I have, do I invite other birds in? Because some of us that like birds also like to feed the songbirds. Bird feeders in. So again, that's bringing potential. You don't know the health status of the birds. You're bringing them into your flock. And of course, chicken sea. Ooh, bird feed that fell on the ground. I'm gonna go under there and peck it. Unfortunately, those songbird also poop there, and then they'll be exposed. So if we're serious about our chickens and keeping them clean, we probably don't wanna have bird feeders where the chickens have access to. And so another. Another thing too is the feeding. Where are you feeding your birds? So if I've got pasture raised birds and I'm just putting the food out there, other wild birds say, Ooh, free food source, I'm gonna, and free water. I'm gonna go over there and eat. Again, that's just like your bird feeder, right? So we have to be conscious where we're gonna feed them. So during these high risk times, it's probably good to feed them early in the morning in an enclosed area. I. Make sure that songbirds, you gotta look at the fencing diameter that doesn't allow songbirds through. Let them eat the food and then you can let them out on the grounds, right? So those are all things, we just have to think what wild things come and get exposed to our animals.

Jennifer: 28:36

Can mice and rats track it in?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 28:40

We don't. Have that information yet, but if you look at all the animals that are in infected potential,

Jennifer: 28:53

it makes sense. Yeah, it makes sense.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 28:55

It makes sense.

Jennifer: 28:56

They walk through the manure, then step on the feed.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 28:59

And we know that. Rats and rodents can perpetuate like a salmonella enters on a farm. So rodent control for all poultry. They're out there. So having a rodent control is really important,

Jennifer: 29:13

it is.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 29:14

So those are all part of the biosecurity picking up the dead right away. Now if you have your like dead and that's a lot of dead, like multiple of your flocks, then you have to watch out. And that's why I would call, if you have so many dead a flock, you might have one or two dead. And backyard flocks are smaller, so you're not gonna have that much like mortality, right? Unless you're a poor keeper of poultry. Yeah. You don't see too much mortality of your flock are healthy. Because chickens, we're talking about chickens here, but also they're pretty strong. They can live up to 25 years in captivity.

Jennifer: 29:59

Really? 25? Yes.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 30:01

Yes.

Jennifer: 30:01

I have two that are 12.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 30:04

Oh, see, you're taking good care.

Jennifer: 30:08

I took good care'cause I just threw'em out. They're on their own and they still ticking'em along. Yeah. And

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 30:15

geese are like 40. Oh wow. So if they're for the chickens they can live long, but most of them, those get those old hands. Are those reproductive problems,

Jennifer: 30:26

all right. I have a question. Can humans get the bird flu?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 30:30

Yes, we can. Can we give it back to the birds? There's always that potential that you can do. You see the wide host range of birds, and we notice that from the outbreaks that occurred, let's say waterfowl. And it's like they died from this too. And so they die along the lake. And who's eating it? The bald eagle. And he gets affected by influenza, the foxes, whatever. You have the car carnivorous animals out there, they get infected, right?

Jennifer: 31:01

And

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 31:01

we've also seen on the East coast and in South America. Sea lions get. Now how are they gonna get that? Because infected seagulls, like the birds might die and then they die in the water and somebody says, Ooh, easy food. And then just eat it, right?

Jennifer: 31:18

And so

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 31:18

we see a whole variety. So dogs, cats, all have influenza. Now we've seen, like in certain parts of the United States, like in California, there's also been canine influenza. And so do. It's this mixture. And we do know that the big pandemic, the worldwide pandemic that had was like swine mixed with other animals. And then when you have this mutation of the different things and it goes into the human, and once it gets easily transferred to the humans, that's how you can spread.'cause once it's spread from human to human easily, then. Then we'll get some kind of pandemic. So that's also a reason why in the early days they try to eliminate all these potential flocks, right?'cause we don't want to have any worldwide pandemics, and that hard thing too, if that's your pet you have to you. But that was done to help protect, the. Health of your neighbor's animals as well as potential spread because that influenza virus, has a lot of animals can be infected, different strains, but those strains can come together and mutate'cause'cause when two different strains they can mutate and transfer those little surface proteins.

Jennifer: 32:42

And then we got a hot mint.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 32:44

Yeah. So we wanna prevent that. We don't need no other pandemic again, right?

Jennifer: 32:49

Gosh, no. Nope. All right, let's move to the q and a side. So I had put it out on Facebook, and we got several really good questions back. So Bantam fave asks if a vaccine can be developed.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 33:08

There are vaccines that are used in Europe and Mexico has been using vaccines too. And the thought was that is should we use vaccines or not? And that's up to the US Department of Agriculture, whether they approve it or not. So I believe they're looking at that right now.

Jennifer: 33:30

Okay.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 33:30

And seeing what. We can do one of the things that if we do use the vaccine, one of the hesitancies of using it before was trade because some countries don't want vaccinated or

Jennifer: 33:48

products. Gotcha. Makes sense. And

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 33:50

that would hit hurt the US agriculture.

Jennifer: 33:53

Yes. Okay. Deb is asking about euthanizing the whole flock instead of allowing the survivors to create a stronger flock, can we breed for resistance?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 34:06

That's one way to do for the survivor, but as some of the tactics that are used is that they they will euthanize whole flock currently. Whether that changes in the future. We don't know, and one of the things also that they euthanize a flock is that, can we guarantee each individual that has influenza can keep their birds safe and not expose or not spread that disease, right?

Jennifer: 34:37

That's a true statement. All right. Amy asks, why are shows being canceled when they don't seem to be a source of issues?

Dr. Theresa Morita: 34:50

I believe that the shows are being canceled as a precautionary. Because your bird may look great, but maybe. He got exposed early on. He's not showing signs, but he's shedding and the shows that I'm familiar with, we have.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 35:10

Wire cage next to wire cage. Next to wire cage. So if one bird's infected, it's easily spread. And actually a more common disease that a spread through exhibition is infectious laryn tracheitis. And that's why if you ever take your birds off from your farm, you wanna make sure that they're. At least quarantine for three to four weeks in a separate area from your main flock, because diseases show about two weeks. We call that the incubation period. So the best is to keep them isolated. You work with them last so that your main flock doesn't get infected,

Jennifer: 35:51

all right. I had two other questions, but I think we already answered those. So Michael wants to know how that you can develop a flock health program for yourself. Would that just be the biosecurity?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 36:06

No. I would say for all flocks is that. You work with someone local and you try to know what diseases do I have? And you go just like how we go to the doctors and we might take a whole physical exam. You wanna know what's in your flock. When you know what's in your flock, you know what you can vaccinate for. You know what you might have worms, you might have coccidia. You know what that is? So we always say, whenever you're getting new birds, keep'em in quarantine and run'em for all these diseases. Because what I will say, let's say worms or mites and lice, it's a big headache once you get that into your farm to have to treat them all the time because, the roundworm egg can live in the soil a very long time.

Jennifer: 36:58

Yeah. And

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 36:59

so easily, once you get it you're gonna have to treat, your future flocks that way, and treating is money, right? So the better is to know what you're coming in have, unfortunately, you have to spend that work with somebody to get what the, if there are positive for worms or not. And if there are no worms or whatever, then you can have them with the rest of your flop, right? So you gotta know, you have to know, which is for, you said Michael, right?

Jennifer: 37:31

I was

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 37:31

asking that question. So knowing what you have in your flock is most important, knowing that you don't bring it in. So there is testing periodic, that you wanna do

Jennifer: 37:41

okay. And

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 37:42

I think there's no greater time than like some of the labs, especially those states that have big poultry. Industries there, they help subsidize some of the backyard flocks so that they can run, so that they will know what's in their state too. So the costs might be much less,

Jennifer: 38:02

oh, that's good information.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 38:03

Yeah.

Jennifer: 38:05

All right. Craig is asking, how is it getting into the commercial flocks with all of their biosecurity?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 38:13

Probably the same way that our farms, if they're on a migratory flyway, you know? We, they have very good biosecurity, biosecurity is only too strong as the workers or help that you get on that farm. And then we have to be cognizant, like we mentioned before, are there activities that I do that might not be good?

Jennifer: 38:37

You are only as strong as your weakest link, right?

Carey: 38:39

That's right.

Jennifer: 38:41

All right. Kristen wants to know if it can jump to other animals like goats or rabbits, and you said yes, right?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 38:48

Yeah. I don't know about rabbits yet, but because maybe they don't get exposed, they don't eat birds or like carcasses.

Jennifer: 38:57

Ah, gotcha.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 38:58

Like we were talking about rodents. Rodents might probably eat some dead bird.

Jennifer: 39:04

Yeah, yeah. I happen to know Kristen and so she probably keeps her rabbits up on wire and hutches'cause she shows. So there's a lot of crossover between showing chickens and showing rabbits. So just good hand washing and keeping clean stuff is probably the best thing you can do.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 39:20

Yep. Yeah. Their food source is, is not like some infected bird. And we don't have birds like they say a lot of the, like on a pond, when the birds take off, they fly and they flutter their wings, right? And that aerosolizes a lot of the water. That's very similar. So you got a lot of water. So that's how all the birds can be infected. And if you think about like in a dairy operation, all the cows come into milk, there's a lot of water.'cause somebody's gotta wash that utter down, right?

Jennifer: 39:56

And

Dr. Theresa Morita: 39:56

there's a lot of wet aerosolization in there too. So that's probably why. When the outbreak in dairy cattle, you can see a lot of the workers. In there because they're exposed to that,

Jennifer: 40:10

all right. Homestead matters is asking what is the reasonable threat of it happening in a backyard flock?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 40:17

Oh, can I finish out about that different, oh yeah. That different animal. So mentioned, somebody said goats, but I believe that there was a most recent report in England that they also found that now in sheep, it was in Europe. Yeah. So

Jennifer: 40:34

possible.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 40:35

Possible. Yeah.'cause they're eating the grass that maybe birds had pooped on.

Jennifer: 40:40

Makes sense.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 40:42

I'm sorry, what was the next question?

Jennifer: 40:44

What is the reasonable threat of it happening in a backyard flock? Is there a percentage?

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 40:51

I don't know. I could actually see a percentage because it depends on your risk factor for each individual farm, if I had some birds in my backyard. Then I probably have a low risk,'cause I'm in like an urban setting. We have no Flyway here,

Jennifer: 41:07

so if you lived along the, say the Mississippi River, your threat would be higher than if you lived in the desert, probably. Makes sense.

Carey: 41:19

Yeah, makes perfect sense.

Jennifer: 41:22

I think, there was one more, but I think we already answered it. It was about a vaccine, I think that was all of our questions, and I'm gonna have to say something. I'm gonna put it out here for the public record. I was of the opinion that you breed for resistance, but you have explained it in such a way that it makes sense. The depopulating, I'm gonna have to say that

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 41:44

it's a sad thing, and we have to get. It's our flock that is affected. But if you think for the greater good, and that's why they always say if you've got some unique genetic stock, you never wanna keep them. Only in your farm. You might know a neighbor and you say, oh, here's my breed. Can you help me maintain this flock? So let's say you live in Tennessee and I live in California or something. You might, when you have your breed stock. That you like. That's why they keep it in another place, a far location,

Jennifer: 42:17

and

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 42:17

not on the same site if you've got this. So I know some people that were exhibition and they have 20 years they've been working with this breed that they've been gen the color pattern or whatever, so they. That's the safest thing. They always, we, we do that in the commercial breeder flocks. If there's certain breeders they're located different spots. You don't keep'em all in one spot.'cause if you got a disease that kills it right there. But now that we have even influenza, you gotta be very careful because you can't be. Transferring things state line if you've got nearby, right? Yeah.'cause maybe they're resist, something. So they should go through a quarantine period before they, and each state has a quarantine maybe that could be worked with, when you're transferring birds. But just to save all the,'cause a lot of the backyard and exhibition people, they have saved their birds for a long time. So that's why biosecurity is most important. Watching all the sources,'cause you wanna save your bird. You have some people their are their pets, so that's their individual human animal bond. So of course you don't wanna put that bird down. So that's why it's truly important that you do what biosecurity to protect them, right? Yeah. And stop their exposure.

Jennifer: 43:45

Yep. I want to say thank you for coming on the podcast today. I have thoroughly enjoyed this. Yes,

Carey: 43:52

thank you. Me too. This is awesome. Thank you. I've learned a lot.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 43:55

Yes. And you guys are doing a great job because we have to get this word out. And to educate everyone about these issues, to help prevent that,

Jennifer: 44:06

all right. Good

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 44:07

job.

Jennifer: 44:07

Thanks. We hope to talk to you again in the future.

Dr. Theresa Morishita: 44:11

Okay. Be happy to. All right. Thank you. Bye. Thanks. Bye.