How to choose the Right Breeds & Breeder

Have you ever wondered what chicken breed would be best for yourself?  Or even considered ducks instead?  Then how to find a breeder and what to ask them?  We have you covered this week on the podcast.  We created a checklist for you and then go thru it on some possible answers and the reasons why.  We  also published this one to Youtube to show you some items live from Bryant's Roost!

Find the checklist on the website at PoultryNerdsPodcast.com

Transcript

0:30

Hi. Hey. We're doing this today because we are gonna talk about shipping and handling and a whole lot of other stuff that goes along with birds. And a lot of times we tell you stuff and we're descriptive, but a lot of this you really need to see. Yep. So we're gonna expand a little bit on how to select a breeder and the questions that you wanna ask. And I've created a checklist that you're gonna find on the website you can download. We're gonna go through that today and questions you can ask and how the breeder may respond. Some of the questions, the breeder may respond nicely. Some of'em, they won't answer you at all, and there's reasons for that, and we're gonna go through those today. Yep. But right now we are in the egg foam warehouse and yep. There we go. You see all the peanuts that you can eat? Yep. They're made outta molasses, tons of egg foam, everything she's got available, including the live shipper boxes. Yep. So you wanna start with eggs? We can. So obviously I prefer foam. A lot of people will tell you that you can use pipe wrap or pool noodles, and I've done it. I'm not gonna say I didn't when I first started, I didn't know this stuff existed. But now that I know better, I would not do that and I wouldn't recommend it because when you're handling the egg and you're forcing it into that. Cut piece of foam, and then you're wrapping it individually and then you're putting it in the box. That is all time for the embryo to get damaged. So I think that extra amount of handling is unnecessary. So egg foam sits in the box. You put it in the box, put the egg in it, put the top on it, put it in the box, and you ship it. There's no extra jiggling of the egg. It keeps it nice and secure. And if you double box it, then you get extra. Oh, what impact resistance. Impact resistance, yes. Yeah. You can use the peanuts or on the egg foam when you pull these little pieces out. You gotta have something to do with'em. Yeah. So when you double box, just stick it in there and it adds to the packaging. Yep. And the foam comes in. You make the foam yourself, you can buy it Personally, I don't think that you can make it any cheaper than I can sell it to you, but that's for you guys. But it comes in all these different sizes for quill eggs, but eggs, duck eggs, chicken, eggs, fanta, eggs, all the different sizes. They fit the boxes. And I don't know. I get excellent hatch rates from my shipped eggs, and I just think I'm so committed to it that I've made a business out of it. And like when you use the foam, we all know that the post office, they're gonna do what they're gonna do. And there's no way around it. You can put all the fragile stickers on there, the live embryo stickers you want, and they're. Sometimes it looks like they've been playing soccer with it. So you can only control what you can do. So the less you handle it, the better the chances are. Also, the foam acts as a insulator. So when the weather is catawampus, that's a good word. Yeah. It, it helps to where the temperature shift is slower and that makes your hatch ability better. So they don't necessarily want this to be a commercial for ex foam, but it is a question for you to ask the breeder, how do they package? And then you have all of the information and you make the decision for yourself. So that's it. Now, live shipping of birds, which I do every week. I do hundreds of them. So I'm pretty good at it. What you do need is an approved USPS box and a box with holes. Jabbed in it with a pair of scissors does not count. Nope. Okay. Chicks also have to be shipped. Express. Some people will tell you that you can ship them priority. That is not a true statement. I do believe the hatcheries might have contracts to be able to ship them cheaper, but for us plain folk, we have to use express shipping. They won't accept'em at the post office without it. So these boxes. Have air holes, right? So you can see the air holes and vents, okay. And more air holes on this side. Now birds need ventilation. We harp on that on other egg. Other podcasts, this particular shipping box has biofilm is what that's called, glued in there. And that prevents the bird from sticking their head out of the holes. And having it knocked off in transit for lack of anything better to say. Now, I have seen some people going through some extreme measures and putting all kinds of different things on the inside of the box. Personally, I think there is a. Point of overkill, but I do think it's better to be prepared. Usually David and I have big conversations about being overkill, but I think in this case, overkill is better. I hot glue Dixie cups in here and then I put grow gel in the Dixie cups. I put sawdust shavings in the bottom and they get feed. That's all I do. I've been having good success with that. So until it doesn't work anymore, I see no reason to change it. But some people put fruit and different things in there. I can go either way on that because if the bird isn't accustomed to eating fruit, then it could upset their GI tract and that become a nutrition question for him, not me. Yeah, on that. If you're going to ship a bird, express and it's gonna get there tomorrow, I think that bird's gonna be fine. But a lot of times where you see the fruit come into play is a lot of game f People will ship birds overseas for whatever reasons, and for that, having apples and stuff in there is good for not only nutrition, but for hydration because it's there. You don't just let the first time that bird has had an apple. Be when you put'em in the box. That's something you need to get them accustomed to. And a lot of breeds do feed fruit from time to time, so that helps. But don't let the day you cram a bird in a box, be the first time it gets grow, gel, whatever food you're putting in there, anything. Don't do that at first. And then this is just a check box. It folds down and you can get different varieties of check boxes. You want a size appropriate box because their body heat is trapped in there. And if you're shipping chicks, you want their body heat contained in there. So this particular box, they don't pop the circles off, and I do it myself. So in July, I'll pop'em all off. In January, I'll usually only pop these top ones off and I'll put a heat pack in there. So the breeder needs to understand seasonal shipping and have size appropriate boxes. This box would be for sending like full-sized chickens. I can, believe it or not, I can fit a full size coaching or orpington in there. They do lay down and they're in their sh. Squished, but there's a lot of body heat. You gotta be prepared and ship them in the wintertime when that happens. But I also ship adult quail in this size box. This one is more for chicks of chicken and quail. So size appropriate boxes is also important. And if you noticed when I have folded this down, see how it creates that gap right there. That's important. This box does the same thing. So what happens is when it's on a pallet in the airplane and they put the boxes together like this, you still get some airflow right here. And that's what this is for, if you've ever wondered. So it doesn't just fold into a flat, perfect square box because then you wouldn't get airflow when they're butted up against each other like that. That's why you include zip ties in the boxes to use. Yeah. So they can use'em in the holes instead of putting a big old piece of tape on there. Exactly. So if you wanted to see this one, see when you fold it down now it folds in right there. See that? Oh yeah. And so that allows airflow in there also. That's the reason why these boxes have that, those shapes that they do. Alright, I think that should answer all of your questions on shipping eggs and birds onto the next one. Okay. So now we're gonna talk about how do you select a breed or even a bird for your situation. And all the ducks are coming to help us do it on this one too. We have tried to outrun them, it's not working. So let's just start with ducks. A lot of people are allergic to chicken eggs. Duck eggs are a valid alternative. Yep. To a lot of people. These particular ducks are wel charla winds. They cannot fly. They are, they're talking, they are prolific layers. They lay, I don't know. Two 80 eggs a year or something. An astronomical amount of eggs. I don't even pick'em all up'cause there's so many eggs. They're pretty docile. They follow year round like puppy dogs. Yep. Ducks may be a good fit for you. They also are fantastic mosquito control. We have zero mosquitoes out here. You consider ducks chickens? It depends on what you want'em for. If you just want something for eggs, then you're gonna want a production breed. Something from a hatchery, they're gonna be bred for production. That's a genetic trait. So an orpington from a hatchery Rhode Island Red from a hatchery, a leghorn or if you're in the south, it's a leghorn. Or, any of the fun things like Easter Eggers olive Eggers. The Mystic Morans, they have, even they, the Isa Browns are the high lines. You can get some of the commercial top layers from hatcheries. Those are prolific egg layers. And when people ask how do I need to set up my chicken pin? Or whatever, the biggest thing you've gotta consider first is. Why do you want the chicken? Because why you want the chicken. This helps you figure out what chicken you want and that's what type of housing. It depends.'cause if you want turkeys like these over here, you're gonna need a lot bigger housing. And if you want bantams, then you need smaller housing, right? So for me, even it, like the hardest thing for me was figuring out what my goals were, because I just like chicken and turkeys and quail. I didn't really, I didn't, my goal was to keep'em alive. I just like'em and wanted to have'em around. It all depends on what you want to do. Now, if you wanna show or you want hot. Quality birds, the size of those birds, which are called standard breads. When you breed for that size, you have to give up other genetic traits. And one of those is egg laying. So my standard bread Orpingtons may lay four eggs a week for four months and that's it. They're not prolific layers because they're massive birds. People don't. Understand that until they probably get here, most of the time, my arm's getting tired. So if you wanna show birds, you're gonna be looking for standard bread birds. If you want eggs, you're looking for utility, hatchery, bread type birds. More fun colors even. Yeah. And if you are in the Turkey market and you want turkeys that will. Reproduce. You want heritage breed, which is what we have. Yeah. Both of us have the red bourbons. They lay eggs, they reproduce and they taste fantastic. But you do have to feed'em all year long. They're seasonal layers. Mine only lay March to May maybe, and you have to feed'em the rest of the year, so there's that. But you could get a meat bird. And be done with them in 16 weeks. So that would be your broad breasted, white, broad, breasted, bronze. Everything else should be considered heritage. Let's see. Okay. And then the breasts. The reason why we selected the breasts was because they're very fast to grow. You can harvest them as young as 17 weeks at full size and they lay eggs. Probably as well as ae, I would say. They just shoot them things out you should get, if all the conditions are right, they're not stressed or anything like that, and they're getting plenty of daylight. Five a week from one of them is not uncommon. Starting at what, 20 weeks? Yeah. My, they're little for the first two or three weeks, but man, once they get full size, we're talking 55, 60 gram eggs. They're good size eggs. We eat our birds and so the Bresse is a really good choice for us. It's dual purpose meat and eggs. You have to know what you want before you go shopping. Otherwise, you will impulse buy and get stuck with birds that you really don't want. You'll wind up with a couple hundred birds and you won't be in love with any of'em, and you'll despise your feed bill and you'll just be miserable. Yep. Alright, onto the next one. Now we're sitting in the barn. So breeding practices is the first one, right? So we're in the quail barn. Breeding starts with feed. Got a little bit over there. Got a little bit. I'm looking at what, about 5,000 pounds total right now? Probably. So each species has its own requirements. That would be questions for this guy and he delivers and then I feed it. And then the fertility rate is pretty much a direct answer to those nutrition, A lot of it's the vitamins. Yeah. And I had somebody send me a feed tag this morning and they said, Hey what would I do to this feed to make it a complete feed? And I looked at it, I said to be honest, I don't know because in the ingredients they list. These different vitamins, A, D, and E, but they don't tell you how much is in there. So I don't know what you need to add. I tell you where to start and see what happens. But unless you actually have a feed tag that's got all the information on it. You're, it is a shot in the dark. Okay, we're back again. David, come over to talk to us. Yep. Okay. So if you'll notice the lights right there. Yeah. Okay. So a bird has to have at least 14 hours of light to late. And we are in the quail barn. So my quail are lit every day, roughly 5:00 AM to 9:00 PM I don't change it. They do not understand daylight savings time. They're on the same time all year round. Okay, whatever the timer is. So sometimes it's five to nine, sometimes it's six to 10, whatever. So have you ever been out here right after daylight savings and it cut off on you? Like I was, yeah, the other night. What the crap like just this week? Yeah. That happened to me too. I was like crap. So the garage door light was on because I was moving around in here. So that was enough light for me to see, to get out. But yeah, I'm not one of those breeders that comes out here and sorts birds until midnight. I don't, I don't do that. I don't care. I can't see the difference between fee and Pharaoh in the middle of the night when it's half lit in here. So I just I don't do that. Okay. So back to how. Breeders should be able to answer your questions. So I know my fertility, because my nutrition is good, my birds have the appropriate amount of light, they have the appropriate amount of space for their species. And I have the proper ratios. And I hatch weekly to test my own fertility and to make sure that there's not any problems. So that is what I would answer if you were to ask me what do I do for fertility? And all the coil are gonna start talking because we're talking, of course. Another question you should ask is, how long have you been working with that line? And then if they say they've been working with that line for five minutes, you might want to keep shopping for a breeder. If they've been working with their birds for a couple of years, you may want to continue the conversation, right? So there's a lot of people out there that buy chicks from hatchery and get them to point of lay and then sell hatch an egg. So you're literally buying hatching eggs off of hatchy birds that aren't very old. And that leads me to another thing. You don't want pullet eggs, you want full-size eggs. So make sure you are asking for full-size eggs, not pull eggs. And if the breeder doesn't know the difference, you can either not on the phone and find another one. Yep. Or ask'em what gram the egg is, they should be able to tell you how big their hashing eggs are. Okay. I couldn't tell you on my orpington eggs, but I don't sell those a lot. But I would guess I'm around 40, 45, but I know that my Bresse eggs are 55 to 60 and that is just something that a breeder should know. Okay. Yeah. All right. What's next? You should also ask the breeders, what traits do they select for in the breeding program, whether it be size, color, fertility, temperament. That's a really big one. Or production because a lot of times they. How do you, what do you separate your quail or what kind of ratio do you have? Your quail Mine seem to be 86 in each other. Mine don't do that. I can, in a 36 inch wide cage, I could put 25 of them in there, or I could put six or eight of'em in there and they're not killing each other. Now if I put 25 of'em in there, I need to change that poop tray like twice a day. But they're not gonna go nuts and kill each other, but that's because they've been bred that way. If I find, if I'm like doing my chores and I find a bird that is being mean to the other birds, it ends very shortly for that bird and the other animals like the treat. But make sure you add. What they breed for because if you don't want agressive birds, that's one of the things they should be looking for. If you want quail that give you 300 eggs a year. Then ask that question. If you if you called me and said, Hey, I wanna get some Rhode Island Reds. Okay, I got some great ones. This is what they are. Don't call me six, eight months down the road and say that they lay horrible eggs because they're standard bread and they only lay three or four weeks. I'm sorry. That's the way it is. You didn't ask for production. You asked for the best quality you could get, so that, that's why you need to ask those questions because you don't want to be disappointed when you start laying or whatever it is you want'em for. Could I ask them about their hatch rate and ask them how often they hatched?'cause if they don't come up, if they don't answer that question right away, whether it's every week or every month, they hatch their own just for them to see what it is, then they don't really know what it is. They're just giving you a number if they have to think about it. Because unless you catch me at two o'clock in the morning and ask me, I'm gonna say every week.'cause most breeders are, especially with quail, they're hatching in every week. Now with chickens this time of year, I don't do that every week because they're not laying a whole lot. But when I do it. I'm doing it for me and I'm keeping up with those numbers. Yeah. We're not selling chicken eggs right now. No. Neither one of us. If you're off season, like if you're looking for Turkey eggs in September, you shouldn't find any. If you find some, if they're not near the south, I mean in the equator area, then you probably are getting scammed. If they're in Alabama. Or Florida or Texas, and they light their turkeys. It's possible otherwise don't buy'em. Are there any known genetic. Traits or mutations in the birds? So every breeder, okay let's go backwards for one second. There's a difference between a breeder and a producer not necessarily saying one is better than the other. One. A producer doesn't select and just reproduces a hatchery. Somebody who's churning out quantity. It is what it is. We're not calling people producers to be derogatory. Now, I do know some people that produce a lot, but they've also spent a really long time really selecting hard. And 95% of what they hatch out is a great bird. But again, if they ain't been working with it for five or 10 years, that's not gonna be the case. So a breeder puts two birds together for a specific purpose. Purpose is the answer. Every breeder has things about their birds that they're not, that they're not happy about. So I can tell you the turkeys, I would like them to be just a little bit, the hens to be just a little bit darker. And I am working on breeding bearded hens. Okay. The ducks, I still get the wrong color bill on some of my hens. So I'm working to breed that out. The Orpingtons, those are for show that's different. So there's a lot of traits there working on the length of back uniformity of color the depth of the buff color. There's all kinds of different things. The quail always working on size and temperament. You're fighting nature with the temperament thing because they're. They're a prey animal, and so they're flighty. And so that their instinct is to be flighty. So selecting for temperament is always going against nature. And so what I basically do is if I am moving birds from the grow out to a layer cage and the bird just fights me incessantly, just won't cooperate and being moved or being sexed or whatever. It just goes in a cold pen. If. It's just, it's not worth it. I've hatched so many that I can that one's expendable because it doesn't, I can't get past its temperament to even sex it to decide if I want to keep it. Yeah. So it's just out right there for me. It's if I'm doing my job and you try to fight me, you're turning, you're food. You're going into, so I've got some grow up breasts over here that are about six weeks old. And every day twice a day, I reach in there to change their water. I always clean their waters and change it out. And he attacks my hand like he is, like a kitten, like pouncing on my hand. And he bites. Guess what? He ain't going to no breeder pen. He's done for already. He has made his decision. I'm raising the breasts with the Orpingtons. The Orpingtons are so docile that I'm hoping that rubs off on them, not rub off on them. Rubs off on them. Yeah. They are flight ear. But they're smaller. They can fly. The Orpingtons can't. So there's some differences there. Physical traits. Yeah. That, you have to take into account for. So there the breeders should be able to tell you, Hey, these are some things I don't like about my line. I need you to be aware of that. So you can make the decision if that works for your farm. Let's see. Ooh, my favorite. Okay. What medications do you, oh my God. I hate this question. Not that I get asked that a lot, and I'm like. I got some garlic, some oregano. It does amazing stuff. Yep. But no, because you know the whole reason I don't want store-bought chicken is because. I know what they pump into those birds, and if I'm gonna consume it, I don't want it to have that right. And I need it to have the vigor and the tenacity to not. Fall over dead. And that's another thing that, like with the quail, if, a lot of them seem like they just want to die every time, ever since you take'em outta the hatchet. And if one of'em starts to act like a goofball, you're out because I don't want that. I don't need it. And some people say, oh, this brutal. You should do this and you should do that. Not really, because a lot of the stuff that they have is not curable. The medications just put a bandaid on it, so it's something they're gonna have to deal with forever. So when I first started breeding Zerus, there's another podcast and he doesn't medicate either. And he he said it would be hard the first year. Then after that you'll do better. And I trusted him because he's done it for 30 ish years. Any. And so I did it. And guess what? Haven't had any trouble since. I don't medicate anything. Because you want the birds to be able to stand on their own two feet. Yeah. The, okay we're gonna get off that soapbox'cause that's not what today's podcast is about. So the question you ask is what medications? Do you use? And the answer is for your informational purposes only. Okay? Yeah. It's your personal preference, but be aware that a breeder, Cole's heart, okay. Just like I said about the temperament, if I can't even sex, you can't go into a breeder cage. Okay. And if you're sickly and I have to medicate you to keep you alive, to breed you, those genetics are the ones that you're buying. Yeah. Okay. If you are buying from me or him, then it's the strongest genetics. So you can, the people on Facebook can be mad that we are what he calls ruthless. But those are the genetics that you want to buy. You don't wanna buy birds that you have to give corid to upon arrival. I saw that on Facebook the other day, and she actually tells people to give him court upon arrival. Yeah. I had the same look. Okay. Yeah. See, I don't, yeah, we'll just leave that one there. Yep. You have that one. So here's some questions, some other questions. You need to think about why you're buying. Do you have enough space housing and equipment for these birds? Because if you're, if you've decided after you've done all your homework, you want Orpingtons, you need to know they're gonna be two feet tall or taller. They're gonna be seven to nine pounds. That's standard for standards. Yeah. And they're gonna eat a lot. Yeah. If you. Let's say you want to get indigo antes,'cause they're like the new thing now. You need to know them. Suckers are gonna be three to four feet tall. The giraffes, they don't like to be housed in anything small and they're breeding. You need to do individual pair mating with them because they're very tor territorial on that. So once you figure out what breed you need to think about space and housing and equipment, because you know when you say you want a layer and somebody says that's 40 bucks, you're like. You have sticker shock. That breeder if they're doing it right, they spent thousands just to house that bird and keep it safe. I have Alumi-Coops. Jennifer has Alumi-Coops a lot of people have'em. They're not cheap. But they're extremely durable and nothing's getting in them. Key statement. They even have kits for'em that will keep bears and stuff out. So those are things to think about. Handling potential losses. And pour hatch rates from shift eggs. What kind of reaction are you gonna have if you walk outside and some predator has killed your favorite chicken? And I've been nice about it. That's things to think about because that's natural part of having chickens because everybody likes chickens, including dogs, possums, raccoons. Anything you can think about. Yeah, but I think it's talking about shipping. Shipping. We're talking about shipping. Shipping. That was in this section right here. Your goals and capacity. Oh, okay. Yeah, I was reading the notes. Also when you think about. When you're, when you get your birds and you start hatching. You need to be careful of the church. That little chirping sound from the hatcher. Everybody loves that sound. It's adorable, but you gotta be careful of it because like kids, you gotta feed'em, you gotta house'em. And they're not gonna be T 90 all their life. So when you throw 150 eggs in your brand new incubator,'cause you want to try it out, you gotta be prepared for them all hatching. Because you'll be like me and you'll do your first really big test hatch of the season because everything started lay and you've got these and these, and they're all in there marked and you put'em in their individual baskets, so the little sock thingies to keep everything separate. So you know what was what. Okay. And then 98% of them acts. So somebody likes to collect all the different kinds of birds. Somebody, me is focused. I like birds. Yes, we all like'em. Obviously we're listening to'em. Okay, so we're gonna wrap this up now.'cause my arm's really tired of holding this camera up. So we're gonna put this worksheet up on the website and you can answer the questions for yourself, and then you can use it, print it off. So when you talk to different breeders worst case, use it for something to think about. Yeah. If you're new to the game and you're listening to the podcast because you're trying to figure out what you want, or if you're gonna sell in 2026. Use it to be prepared for the questions that you're going to get because you'll get them. But anyway, it's there. It's I figured out how to do it. We had a little hiccup last week but now I understand how to do Google sheets a little bit better and he's forever teaching me. And so it's a downloadable now that you can just download and f print off as many as you want. Yep. And so fill it off as many as you, as many times as you want to, for as many breeders as you want to. But anyway, hope this helps you guys to have set your expectations. Reasonable expectations. Expectations reasonable. Yep. All right. Bye. Next. See y'all next week.