MasterStroke with Monica Enand & Sejal Pietrzak

How to Own Your Career -

• Season 1 • Episode 13

Share episode

We would love to hear from you, send us a text!

“I don't think that I have ever been given a promotion without asking for it…”

Whether you're a seasoned professional or still rising through the ranks, this episode arms you with practical insight to steer your career toward success. Monica and Sejal discuss how to strategize and initiate asking for a promotion or next steps towards career advancement. Their conversation centers the importance of transparent communication with leaders while navigating the intersection of professional readiness and business need. Join us for a dialogue that's not just talk: it's your career advancement toolkit.



Georgianna Moreland - Creator, Executive Producer & Managing Editor;
Matt Stoker - Editor


Sejal Pietrzak:

I don't know that I was ever given a promotion without me asking for it in one way or another.

Monica Enand:

Really I don't think I was.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Yeah, I'm looking back, I think I asked for every single one, even when I was 24 years old. That's amazing. Welcome to the Masterstroke Podcast with Monica Enid and Sejal Patrizak. Conversations with founders, CEOs and visionary leaders in technology and beyond. People may not realize it, but their names are coming up for that next promotion and they're being talked about. The top performers across the organization at every level are being talked about at the executive table when those twice a year talent reviews happen. And even if it may not be talked about at the company, you may not even know what's happening.

Sejal Pietrzak:

I think about when I was more junior, even when I was a VP level, I don't think I knew that was happening. And then, as you move up, you're like, wow, this was really happening, these conversations were happening and that's how I got that promotion into another group, because somebody must have said hey, you know we don't have that next level in our group, but we're going to move her Um, and and. So I think, to the extent that you know, people realize that succession planning is always happening. It's. It makes you realize okay, so what I'm doing matters, you know it is. People are thinking about me, People are looking at me Um, if I, if I am performing well, Absolutely.

Monica Enand:

And you know, I think the unfortunate thing happens when somebody's ready, meaning they've been trying very hard to do their boss's job and they're gaining all those skills and they're getting their responsibility and demonstrating and proving that they can handle it, and so everyone agrees they're ready. So, but I had I've had to explain multiple times two things have to be true A, you have to be ready and there has to be a business need. For what? For that position?

Sejal Pietrzak:

The level above where you're at today Exactly, absolutely. It's great that you were transparent in talking to the team about that.

Monica Enand:

And also Sejal. We made sure we had a culture of if we don't foresee, if we feel like you're ready and we don't foresee a business need, our business, having the need for you to be in that position in a short period of time, we are absolutely all going to reach out and help you find what position you're ready for and we're not going to be upset with you for leaving.

Monica Enand:

I mean, we would try, within our investors, to kind of keep you in the portfolio, in you know whether it was within another company within the private equity teams that we were working with, we would try to keep it kind of to a cousin company or we try to, you know, promote with friends or people that we knew that we thought would be good places to go for these people that we were trying to reward with a new position. We were never upset when people had to leave for that reason and we were pretty transparent about yeah, actually I do think you're ready to run this group. We don't have that position available. If we can help you, if you want to be patient, we can also tell you when we think that might become available. And here's what we're doing about it and here's how the organization is going to evolve in our minds. But it's not a guarantee.

Sejal Pietrzak:

So, monica, did you ever have anybody come to you and say I think I'm ready for this next promotion or I would like to be at that next level? And then what did you say? If they were ready, what did you say? And if they weren't ready, what did you say?

Monica Enand:

It's a hard one because a lot of times people do. My experience and I'm very curious, sejal, if you have the same was that we had a number of people who felt like they were ready, but we did not feel that they were ready, and what I realized is that was our failing, not their failing. So what we didn't do is give them full exposure to the job, like when people are starting to feel like they want to advance and they are feeling ready. What management's job is to do is to make sure they have full exposure to the extent, all the extents of the job. So you know, it's like silly things, but simple things, like when a manager, when an executive went on vacation, we would appoint somebody to come to the exec team meetings and cover for them for, you know, for a week or two, and it really did give you an exposure to all aspects of the job that you might not have been seeing had you not sat in that seat for a couple of weeks or had to deal with the problem. So that was one thing. And then I think we also tried to articulate very clearly and have group conversations about why is it that we don't think this person's ready and what is it and how can we articulate it to them.

Monica Enand:

And it's hard because I? Here's what I've learned you can say one developmental thing Notice I didn't say one bad thing, because it's not a bad thing, it's an area of development. You can say one area of development to somebody and they. And then you can say 10 areas in which they're performing, and my experience is that people only hear the one area that you've talked about development-wise, and you really do have to say 10 good things to offset the one area in which you think they should develop. But people focus on that and I think then you have to say, okay, here's how we're going to help you achieve that.

Monica Enand:

And sometimes it is letting them take on a responsibility, either temporarily or permanently, an aspect of a job that they haven't had exposure to before. Or it means swapping, like something that they're good at. Tell them, okay, we're going to give that to somebody else, and then we're actually going to ask you to do this thing that you don't know anything about. Or we would hire a coach sometimes to help them come up with development plans, and we sometimes actually sent them to training programs. Like you know, I had somebody really wanted to make the shift from like a product owner to a product manager and then actually then running a product management team, and we ended up finding like we used pragmatic marketing. I don't know if you've used any of those, but we found like the companies that were really good at teaching these and sending them for these certifications.

Sejal Pietrzak:

And that doesn't mean that they'll then suddenly get promoted, but it gives them the opportunity to fill a gap. I think you're absolutely right and I do think that I wish more people would come to their managers. I think everyone assumes my goal I would like to be at this level, I don't know when, a year from now, two years from now, whatever it is what do I need to do to get there? And you know, whenever I coach um people, uh, and they ask me I, you know, I've been in the same role, you know, and my manager's just not promoting me and I was like well, have you ever talked to your manager about it? Have you ever said I want to be in this next level and what do I need to do to get there?

Sejal Pietrzak:

No, my manager doesn't welcome that kind of conversation. Go take your manager to coffee one day or virtually ask for a meeting if you guys are remote, and just start having the conversation about what your goals and aspirations are. I think 90, if it's a good manager, and I say 95%. But whatever it is the percentage of managers, they would always try to look out for that If they know that's what your inspiration is and that's what your motivation is and that's where your drive is heading to. Hopefully they have that construct in their annual performance reviews and there's what your motivation is and that's where your drive is heading to. Hopefully they have that construct in their annual performance reviews. And there's a monthly or quarterly sort of career conversation, but that doesn't always happen, and and so it's up to the individual to manage their careers.

Monica Enand:

What I've found and that's my advice that I always give Absolutely I think managing your own career, taking ownership of your own career, is the first advice I give anybody. Is you have to own it?

Sejal Pietrzak:

No, one can own it.

Monica Enand:

The manager absolutely cannot own it and you kind of hold that person accountable. I think we should acknowledge that it's a scary thing to do. It is a scary thing.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Yeah, but Monica, why is it scary? Actually I said I agreed with you immediately, but then I thought I'd ask why is it scary?

Monica Enand:

I think it's scary to say you want something that you're afraid someone will say like I mean, I was afraid people would laugh at my face sometimes you know, um, or that they would think I was stupid for thinking that I was capable of that. Um, and you have to kind of go all right. First of all, they're not going to laugh in your face. I mean that's kind of like a crazy thought. No one who cares at all, and if they do, you need to quit and go find another job. But secondly, like you, I think most people appreciate someone who's got high aspirations. Like I had worked for a CEO and he said you know, I think I told you the story where he had said like I think you could be a CEO. And I thought for long and first of all he blew my mind because no one had ever said that to me Like pow. But then he did nothing to help me. Like think, like how do I get from here to there?

Sejal Pietrzak:

But did you ask him, Monica? Did you ask?

Monica Enand:

him, and so I started saying, okay, well, now that I know he's not going to laugh at me, I'm going to start asking him, like, how would I go about that and what are the pieces and where do you think I'm missing? And you know, he in the end, was too busy with what he had to do and it wasn't the right environment for me to get the experience I needed, the right environment for me to get the experience I needed. And I ended up. I actually ended up reading a lot of blogs and actually listening to podcasts, to be honest, on how to how to figure some of this stuff out venture venture funding, how to figure out startups and those were incredibly helpful to me.

Monica Enand:

But, yes, I did try to go and approach him, but he did open the door and so that made it a lot easier. But I don't think everyone always opens the door because they're not thinking of it. That's not the top of mind, and so I think you, as the employee, have to open the door and it's scary. You knock and you feel like the door is going to get shut in your face, but it's 99% of the time not.

Sejal Pietrzak:

So maybe I would recommend, when you've just had a success of some sort completed a project on time under budget, just won a big deal or achieved quota, if you're in sales or really accomplished something and you heard some positive feedback around it soon after that might be a great time to sit down with your manager, and one of the things that I used to do is I used to have a little list of things that I had accomplished achievements, things that mattered to the business, and I would have that in case there was a question of you know, why are you coming to me, or not that that ever really happened, but it was my talking points around why I felt like I wanted to move into that next position. I don't know that I was ever I'm thinking back in my career was I ever given a promotion without me asking for it in one way or another?

Sejal Pietrzak:

Really I don't think I was. Yeah, I actually. I think I asked. I'm looking back. I think I asked for every single one, even when I was 24 years old, that's amazing.

Monica Enand:

I can't say that I did ask. I was lucky enough to get promotions early in my career without asking, but I find it fascinating that you asked each. I didn't somehow make it clear that I was ambitious and wanted to do more, but I didn't specifically ask. But I'm really curious about your path because you actually have been promoted much more than I have, of course, and when you say asked, was it very specific.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Well, the same thing that I was saying I'd say you know I'd have a meeting with my manager, we would go to coffee or I would bring lunch, literally go get lunch, bring it into his office or her office and we would chat about.

Sejal Pietrzak:

You know, surprise them with a cup of coffee and we had a meeting and we're like, oh yeah, I brought you some coffee, let's chat. Can we talk a little bit more about my career after you know the transactional meeting, or set up an only career conversation? I did that all the time actually, yeah, and then talk about what it would take. And you know I give this advice but I actually look back and I remember doing it all the time. And then it was sometimes a long time before I would initially bring it up that I would get promoted months, if not a year or more, but at least I was on record. For I'm interested in that next step and you know I I'm. I'm thinking back to all the different steps in my career and the different companies and organizations that I worked for and I think I asked for it every time in one way or another.

Monica Enand:

That's great advice then that's amazing, I think, actually one thing that you said that, if you don't mind, I want to say it again, because I think the key to being successful in those kinds of conversations is to piggyback on a success, to pick your timing when your house is not in order, and I had a number of these conversations where somebody was really not hitting targets and they would come to me and go you know, I think I'm ready to do something else or do something, do something, take on more responsibility.

Monica Enand:

And I would think to myself no, you need to focus on just your targets. Like you're not demonstrating that you actually have capacity because you haven't actually hit the targets, and whether that's a planning issue on your part or a delivery issue on your part, it's still a you problem. Like you either need to communicate, you need to set targets that you can hit or you know, or, when something's amiss in your team, like that's not the timing to come and say I'm ready to do something else, because it kind of demonstrates low understanding of like I mean, I don't think the person can even give you mental energy on it because they're so focused on the fact that your team isn't running well or something's not going right that the manager can't even think.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Yeah, it, yeah, it's absolutely true. And so you do have to pick your timing. And then you have to be patient and you have to come with a comment of you can't expect to say I'd like to be promoted tomorrow, yeah, or we have a performance review coming up next month. I'd like to be now given that promotion. You have to come with a thoughtful approach and then, hopefully, you're asking the question around what would it take for me to get to that next level, whatever it happens to be? And that way you're opening the door for your manager to say to you, well, this is what I'd like to see. Or sometimes they'll say, well, I need to think about it. And then they won't come back to you because they're so busy. Then you have to go back to them a couple weeks later and say, hey, remember, we talked a couple weeks ago about you know, you think about. I actually put together a few things that I think would be important for me to do. I don't know if you agree with these, would you add anything? And then that way you're, you're being proactive.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Um, I remember doing exactly that when I worked at Wells Fargo and I had a manager and and I wanted to be promoted and I thought I had done, uh, you know, a strong job. And and sure enough, he and I had coffee one day in his office and we talked about it and the same scenario happened, and and it eventually happened that he put me up for promotion to move into that next. And it wasn't within the group I was in, it was in another group. So he had clearly been at one of those talent reviews and talked about me. And then I was, I moved into another group at the next level, and I was, I moved into another group at the next level. But but that, but I I'm thinking back to to these these times and it's exactly what happened.

Monica Enand:

I think what you did, what you said there also, that is really key is make it easy on the manager. So I think when you write your own development plan and you ask for feedback as opposed to saying like, well, what do you, where do you think? Because I got asked that a lot like where where would you suggest I spend time developing? Or or what are the skills? What do you think I would need? What are the gaps? You know, when I have a blank sheet of paper, I almost always have to say you know, give me some time to think about that, whereas if you give me something to react to, I can almost always yeah, I can almost always go.

Monica Enand:

yes, that's true, and this thing or that's that part or this, this activity that you have that you think is going to get you, that that's not going to get you there. So you know, I think reacting to something always is easier. So whenever you're feeling stuck with managing up or with your manager, giving them something, being proactive, giving them something to react to, always helps get them unstuck, I think.

Sejal Pietrzak:

Yeah, and being proactive about it Absolutely Well, it was great chatting with you today, monica, and I think hopefully all of this advice will be useful to anyone who's listening.

Monica Enand:

Absolutely Well. Thank you so much, Sejal, and thank you to our executive producer, Georgiana Moreland.