Breathword
Breathword is a podcast about breath as a tool for living and the ways life breathes back. Each episode explores the insights that come from slowing down, tuning in, and letting yourself feel. Through intimate conversations, poetic reflections, and grounded breaths, host Annie Janssen invites you into a more authentic, wiser way of moving through the world. This is a space for healing, humor, imperfection, and the quiet magic of being alive.
Breathword
Meeting Your Shadow Self Will Change Everything About How You Heal - with Jamie Janko
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In this soul-stirring episode, I sit down with my dear friend Jamie to explore what happens when we stop running from the parts of ourselves we’ve been taught to hide. Jamie opens up about her transformation from a self-proclaimed queen of toxic positivity to someone who now embraces the full spectrum of emotion—with breathwork and shadow work as her guides.
We talk about what it means to meet your shadow, why the brightest light often casts the sharpest shadow, and how facing discomfort can lead to the deepest healing. Jamie shares the raw truths behind her recent darkness retreat, how it cracked her open, and the unexpected power that emerged from the dark.
This conversation also dives into what it looks like to meet your edges—in self, in relationships, and in sensuality—and how those edges can become invitations for deeper presence, authenticity, and connection.
Whether you’re new to shadow work or deep in the practice, this episode is a reminder that healing isn’t about fixing—it’s about integrating. Let’s breathe into the dark together.
✨ Connect with Jamie:
@jamiejanko
@rewildbreathwork
The thing is like when we come into that deeper connection to ourself, we come into all these shadow parts, we come into love, we come into everything we've talked about on this podcast. We are just kinder people, right Totally. If we can really move all of these really heavy emotions, all this anger, if we can move it into healthy ways of release, we're just not assholes.
The Master of the Reframe
Speaker 2Welcome to Breathwork. Today's guest is my dear friend Jamie, someone I discovered Breathwork alongside and who's been walking her own brave path since. In this episode we explore the power of embracing your full self shadow and all Jamie shares how letting go of toxic positivity opened the door to deeper healing, how movement and breath help her stay grounded, and what it means to rewild and return to your natural rhythm From darkness retreats to soul level shifts. This conversation is an invitation to embrace your shadow, to feel and to honor every part of your journey. Let's get into it. Well, I wanted to start with some breathing anyway, just some drop in breaths, just to kind of ground us and whoever is listening. So just some nice easy inhales through the nose, exhaling through the mouth, pedaling in, grounding the hips, relaxing the face and jaw, inhaling all the gratitude and exhaling the busyness, any rushing, remembering it's not real, inhaling love, inhaling love and letting go, sinking into the moment. There's nowhere else you need to be and I'm going to read a little poem to intro us into the session so you can continue to close your eyes and just breathe gently. At first I didn't notice it At my heels, a dark shape. Besides, we grow up learning to ignore our shadows anyway. The sharp edge of your voice, the hunger we're told to tame. The sharp edge of your voice, the hunger we're told to tame the wound you pretend has healed. The desire failed in shame. I step forward, it steps to, I run, it keeps pace. I cast it away, but it clings, a fruitless kind of race. So I turn and walk toward it, sinking into the dark, into the depths, letting it rise, letting it flood. Heart open, steady breath, my fears, my desires, my scars, my fire, parts of me and parts of you. I meet them, I name them, I take what is true and when I step back into the day, me and my shadow are one, we are whole, two forces moving together, a united, tethered soul. When I dance, you dance. When I jump, you fly, reminded that shadows are proof we are standing in the light. It's beautiful, annie Little reminder because like, yeah, I was just telling you before we started.
Speaker 2I wanted to discuss shadow work today and breath work and how it all has played into your journey and I had to kind of remind myself and look at my own shadows. I actually journaled about them this morning. But before we jump into just what breathwork is and how you do such a wonderful job of blending the science and the spiritual aspects of breathwork. I just wanted to acknowledge and take a moment that I'm sitting across from you today as this beautiful brunette who has so much depth and soul. I just wanted to acknowledge and take a moment that I'm sitting across from you today as this beautiful brunette who has so much depth and soul, and it's the same Jamie that I met, I guess in 2018 or 2017.
Speaker 2It's been a while now, but I remember going to you know, I knew you from CrossFit and we went to a coffee shop and we were sitting there and you're just this bubbly blonde and so energetic and fun, loving, and just all smiles and giggles all the time, which is still part of you today. But it was really interesting. We sat there and we barely knew each other, but you confided in me, like some big shifts that were happening in your life and it's crazy to think back about how that was just the start of this journey that you've been on, that's taken you around the world practicing breath work and sharing it with people. So I just wanted to, I guess, start with yeah, how would you describe that? Jamie from 2000 and, I guess, 18, 17?
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean, honestly, we could look at Jamie from birth. Yeah, right, always such bubbly, carefree, compassionate, loving, excited for the world, and these are all really positive things, right, they're really positive, especially when you're able to incorporate that shadow piece, too, right, and that was something at that time that I didn't know what to do, I didn't know how to. And you know, when we look at shadow work, we look at Carl Jung, right? A psychiatrist in the 30s or 40s. He said until we make the unconscious conscious, it will direct our life and we will call it faith.
Speaker 1So, looking back, I know that my life was being directed by subconscious patterns, conditioning things that I learned growing up to keep me safe, which is beautiful. It's what we do, it's a human condition, right, but I would say that that version, she was the master of the reframe. But I would say that that version she was the master of the reframe, right. Anything that was seemingly negative. Pop a reframe on it, pop a bandaid on it, right, and that's something I think is powerful. It's beautiful, but we've got to go further into the depths.
Speaker 2And acknowledging and giving things space that might feel uncomfortable. Yeah, so do you feel like that's kind of what led you? Your life, I guess up until that point, was kind of like these band-aids, and do you feel like you were trying to meet other people's expectations or just your own expectations? I think?
Speaker 1both, and you know so much of this comes back to childhood too, right? So in the household that I grew up in, I was very much the one that would keep peace, be the balance, right. I remember watching my brother and so much anger that he had, and I remember, you know, it was so unconscious at the time, but it was essentially okay. If I perform in this way, if I act in this way, if I'm even kill, if I'm the one that can bring joy, it balances things out, it makes people happy, Right?
Speaker 2And so that was really the programming in the background that I came from more critically and thinking oh, there's something to this, something underneath that I want to look at and address.
First Breathwork Experience
Speaker 1I didn't want to. I think a lot of us, when it comes to shadow work, we don't want to go there. It's terrifying, right, because shadow work shadows defined, just as you beautifully said in this poem right, it's all these parts of us, the anger, the guilt or the greed, are just these parts of us that we don't want to look at. And I think after a while, for most people, we start to ask ourselves why am I the way I am? And as you go through difficult patches of life, you feel big emotions. Patches of life, you feel big emotions, you feel anger, you feel sadness, you feel rage, and I remember getting to a place where I couldn't hold it in anymore. It was spilling over, and spilling over in the ways of. For me, it was different kind of behaviors, or just talk broadly for people, right, it can come through in behavior, it can come through in projections, it can come through in addiction, so many ways. And for me, I was feeling really big emotions and I didn't know how to work with them and what helped me find them even more.
Speaker 1You know, going to breathwork, I remember going into my very first breathwork class. I thought it was a meditation class and when was this? This was in must have been 2018, around the same time, right? So I go to my first class. I think it's a meditation class. They put us in breath and we're in these deep rhythmic patterns. The light is down low, there's music playing and for the first time, there's music playing and for the first time, I was sitting with myself and I felt my body and my soul and my intuition speak to me in a way that I had never, ever felt before, and these big emotions were coming through and there was a space for me to actually feel them. I was screaming, I was crying and I didn't know why.
Speaker 2I couldn't intellectualize it, but I knew that there was so much in my body that needed to release. It gives me chills thinking about it, because we witnessed this, even till today. You know you probably did in the past few days from people who are just now discovering breathwork and taking your breathwork, facilitated experiences and taking your breathwork facilitated experiences and so, yeah, it is, it's so powerful and so for when we were talking the other day on Valentine's Day, going for our walk, I was telling you how, when I went home to the Midwest recently, a lot of people there don't know yet about breathwork or what we're referring to, because we're in Venice, california, and you've been in Bali, where you know breathwork is very common. But how would you describe this form of breathwork to someone?
Understanding Breathwork Science
Speaker 1Yeah, so, as you kind of alluded there, there are many forms of breathwork. Right, we've got this down regulation, like what you brought us through. You know, brought us through something balancing and down regulating. But there's also up regulating and there's types of breath that really allow us to sink deeper into that subconscious mind. It's a phenomenal healing modality and what you're going to find, imagine yourself you're lying down, you got music, you're in darkness, you're really in your own experience and we're in these deep rhythmic patterns we're breathing in through our mouth.
Speaker 1Actually, what we find is that it actually creates a change in our physiology. That creates a change in our psychology. So, as we're walking around, mostly day-to-day life, we're in our prefrontal cortex, right, we're in this rational thinking mind. I should do this, I've got to do this. This is why this intellectualizing everything, but in this style of breath, it really allows for that part of our brain to dim a little bit, to quiet, to go a little quiet. And so other parts of our brain, more primal parts, limbic system, these places where we've got stored memory, we've got lots of emotion. It allows us a peek into that system and when we're able to be with that system, we can go deeper into those subconscious wounds, patterns, ideas. And it's not just for this deep healing work, it's also for deep creativity or deep joy, for gratitude. So it's really the light and the dark that you can find in breath.
Speaker 2Yes, I was trying. I was actually thinking about it when I was working out this morning. I was on the bike dying. I was trying to think about how to describe something that's been coming to mind with the breathwork. So I took your breathwork class last week. It was so beautiful, it was exactly what I needed, just to release. And then all these things came up that I didn't even know that it wasn't on my radar right To even think about going into a session. And then you come out in this kind of blissed out high at the end and then I'm walking down Main Street, which is wonderful. You know no music because you really don't need it. I never, I always go to Brathwick listening to music and then come back like, not You're just in your own little world.
Speaker 2But then, you know, the feeling fades like everything else. But I was thinking today how it's almost like when you travel and you go on a trip somewhere and you come back, it's like even though you're not in that place anymore, it has changed you and you just know that it exists, Like even just the feeling of knowing that something exists and that you could go back there and the memories of it really is what's so profound, you know.
Speaker 1And that's it. It's exactly that. It's a journey, and in a journey of breathwork. Oh my gosh, you can attest to this. There's so many different feelings, emotions, and so often we don't allow ourself time and space to sit with them. So we might feel immense joy and gratitude and pride and we might be called back to some memories. That might be a little difficult. We might actually be able to see them through a different lens, and that's really a beauty. I think of this practice too, because it allows us to see through a new perspective. So often, right, and when we're looking just like, for instance, you know, we may think back on a memory with a lot of blame, right, and we might really be in this victim and really be blaming someone else.
Speaker 1Sometimes, when we go into this practice, we can look from almost an observer's point of view, and not necessarily from our mindset, and be able to see, okay, they were, this other person was actually doing the best that they could at the time. Right, maybe that blame I've been holding isn't something that serves me, right? Maybe putting myself in this victim kind of mindset isn't serving me. Maybe it really looked a different way.
Speaker 2So what are some of the first, I guess, big insights or takeaways that you remember from those early breathwork experiences that made you realize, oh, this is really powerful and something that I want to give energy to.
Speaker 1I mean, it was in that first session, annie, like literally. So, as you know, my career before was in Major League Baseball.
Speaker 1I was in baseball for 12 years. I was with the Braves, the Yankees, the Dodgers, and I'd hit that corporate burnout, like so many people do. I gained a lot of weight, I had rashes all over my body. I was at the point of that was one of my rock bottoms right, One of my dark nights of the soul. Looking back, and I remember, just knowing that there were lots of shifts coming, I just had that feeling that, knowing In that first breathwork session the I call it downloads what I walked away with was you're leaving your career, you're leaving your marriage, you're going to leave the country and you're going to teach this to the world.
Speaker 1That's so powerful and I remember getting out and just being like what the fuck You're like. This is not true. This is not happening. I don't know who you're talking to, but it's not me Right, like I just met God, yeah, yeah. That's amazing. So that was the moment, literally, that I was like okay, I want to learn everything I can about this modality. Also, I was very much this like type A person that needed to understand the science behind it.
Speaker 1I couldn't just accept this spiritual outlook. Right, I grew up in church. It was difficult for me to look through any other lens of spirituality and it was important to me to find the science. So that was thing number one. I was like, okay, I want to go into training, I want to learn the science. I know what I felt, but I need to really understand what the fuck happened.
Speaker 2Right, so then you left your job and you did leave the country, and you left your marriage, and then you went to Bali.
Speaker 1Yeah, I remember during this time, annie and I was actually thinking about this in my workout. This morning I'm on the treadmill and I hadn't put this together. I remember before I left the States, this was 2020. I remember talking to my therapist and I was like I want to go get in my shadow.
Speaker 3I want to find the depths.
Speaker 1And she was just like, okay, jamie, let's reel it back a little bit. What you're going to find, remember you're going to a third world country, right? This isn't a place where people get the privilege to sit and be in their shadow, right? This is a place that people are they want to eat, right? So it really it pulled me into a deeper, I think, understanding I can't. It's so funny that that thought just came to me this morning.
Speaker 2So interesting right Balancing, yeah, what is someone's light with your seeking of the dark, kind of yeah? Yeah, I hadn't thought of that before.
Speaker 1Yeah, so I go to Bali and I'm it's during the pandemic, right. So I get this tiny window and I get in the country. They close the borders and I plan to stay for maybe a couple months, right, but I just stayed for two years. I just kept staying and what I realized is everyone's working online. I rented out my apartment here, rented out my car, and I literally took it just day by day, but what I found was that, being in Bali, being in a place of paradise, I realized what is the quote Like wherever you are, like there, you are Right. So I realized that I'd been running, been running from myself, running from what this maybe shadow or this darkness is that I don't know how to integrate.
Speaker 1I don't know how to feel and I remember all of the shame that came with that, of this displaced anger, this displaced sadness. I literally just blew up my life. I blew up my life and I thought I was just going to run into Bali and rainbows and butterflies, right.
Speaker 3Because I reframed it. I reframed it all.
Speaker 1The big reframe, jeez, and I get to Bali and I'd never felt so low. I'd never felt so low, I'd never felt so sad, so angry, and there was so much shame. I didn't want to live. I literally did not want to live anymore. And I made that realization on a scooter in Bali.
Speaker 2I can empathize with that, definitely, and I feel like it's powerful to hear you say that, because so many people are scared, I think, to even admit that. So, yeah, thank you for sharing that, because I think a lot of people, I think, when I've felt like that in the past, I'm too scared to say, yeah, I don't say that I want to die, I just say I don't want to exist. You know, it's like that, that feeling. You're like what's the point of everything? Yeah, yeah. So did you sit in that for a while? Or I guess what? Where did you go from there?
Shadow Work and Emotional Release
Speaker 1So from there I won't get into this whole story, but I had a big accident in Bali and this big accident shifted and changed everything. Because I was a breathwork teacher. Right After this accident, I couldn't teach breath because I would have a panic attack breath because I would have a panic attack. I couldn't breathe because I would have a panic attack, because this accident really affected my lungs and my entire emotional body. And it was from there that I realized something needed to change. So I went back into therapy and I realized that this intellectualizing wasn't going to work for me. It just took me deeper and deeper and deeper into that, that spiral down. And that's when I started to work in somatic therapy and that is really what literally changed everything.
Speaker 1Yeah, it was this, this incredible woman in Bali. Her name is Chelsea, she's. She's gone on to be an incredible mentor of mine and and what she really took me through and this has changed my work, and this is the way that I work now is I work so deeply with the shadow, with my clients, but giving these big emotions, it's just energy in motion. Right, it didn't have anywhere to go. She helped me give it a place to go. She took me into deep rage, work, sacred rage, they would call it anger work, deep sadness, really confronting that part of myself that wanted to die, that part of myself that I wanted to kill literally. And it was through the experience with her that I really got to feel shadow. Oh God, I remember just those sessions, the screaming, the darkness.
Speaker 2The energy has to have a place to go and could you describe somatic therapy for people who aren't familiar?
Speaker 1Yeah. So if we think about you know the Western world right, and we look at a lot of the therapies that we've used for a long time, a lot has been a top-down approach and when we talk about that it's literally it's a lot of talk therapy, it's intellectualizing what we've been learning in the last. You know, people have known eons before, but what's become more popular in, say, last five or 10 years is this idea that our body can be a vessel for healing, that our body holds sensations, emotions can be in our body. There's some beautiful books out there when the Body Keeps the Score, by Bessel van der Kolk. When the Body Says no, by Gabor Mate. Those are really great, great places to start. But it's the idea of how our body is holding so much and we don't necessarily have to intellectualize everything. Even when you look at a practice like breathwork, it's a somatic practice because we're using our body. We're using the sensations in our body really to inform us.
Speaker 2Yeah, I think that's a good point about that type, this type of breath work, the three-part breath, is that it is so physical and it is work physical work. And the yeah, you can feel it in your body, versus just like how you thought you were going into a meditation class and yeah, it's a lot different than that, Exactly, and what I love to bring into my breath experiences is lots of sound, lots of sound.
Speaker 1It's such a powerful tool for release, right, and if you're listening to me now and you're like sound, what do you mean? Yeah, I mean we're humming, we're making deep noises, we're screaming. We're really allowing a place for that emotion to move, and I also bring in a lot of movement. It might be conscious movement, unconscious, voluntary, involuntary, but also with our body like to go into shaking right To allow our body to literally discharge and to complete those stress loops. It's so powerful. I mean, even think about an animal in the wild, right. I always show this video in my trainings. It's like this video of this impala and a cheetah. You can find this on YouTube, guys. This cheetah gets him around his neck.
Speaker 3And this.
Speaker 1Impala goes down and he starts to play dead. The cheetah somehow gets distracted, he runs off and then the first thing you see with impalas is belly just starts to breathe these big breaths. And then thing you see with impala is his belly just starts to breathe these big breaths and then you see that he starts to go into this, um, this, like convulsion. They shake, shake, shake, shake. He's shaking so quickly. And then he kind of looks around, he jumps up and he runs off, shaking off the fear, shaping, shaking off the fear, wow, literally shaking all of this adrenaline, shaking all of the stress, completing that, that stress, that loop. And then he goes off and he eats grass and hangs out with his impala friends. As humans, we don't do that. We go into a really difficult situation.
Speaker 1If you're anything like me, you've been conditioned to be poised, to be controlled to really suppress down emotion, especially emotion like anger, and when you do that you're not able to really discharge that stress.
Speaker 2So what would you recommend for someone if they are in that state? Because I feel like that happens so many times. When you're so stressed, you're kind of a lot of us are alone a lot of times too, and sitting at our computer, really stressed out and not knowing what to do in that moment.
Speaker 1Yeah, a hundred percent there's. So when you look at somatic tools, almost anything can be a somatic tool. It really can. But for those moments, say you get this email, you're pissed off, or like something happened, you're just like oh.
Speaker 1So in that moment, instead of just being like, okay, reframe, instead of being like, oh well, it's actually okay, instead feel it, feel the frustration, feel the feelings that that brought to you, what I really like to do is I like to put on music and literally shake my body. You might want to put on music and go for a run or go for a walk, but find a way that you can literally move this through your body. So in those moments I wouldn't recommend oh, let me just go into a down regulation breath, right, because then in that moment, we're suppressing all those feelings that we are not allowing ourself to feel suppressing all those feelings that we are not allowing ourself to feel.
Speaker 2Something I've been thinking about lately is I mean, my day job is developing AI products and I feel like everything and so many people are, you know now, like so much of the focus that we're using it all day is AI, artificial intelligence, and it's so refreshing to explore this. You know the human intelligence that isn't just cerebral like you're saying and lives just fully in your body, like all of you.
Speaker 1A hundred percent and you know, as you were saying that, you know I want to bring some other tools in. One tool could literally be calling a friend and just letting it out, right. Another tool could literally be humming, singing, punching pillows, like literally getting into it and allowing all of this to just move, move, move through the body, right.
Speaker 2And if somebody is finding themselves as one of those people who is the queen or king of reframes and always feeling the need to be positive or perfect, I guess, what would you recommend as some of the first steps for shadow work?
Speaker 1First steps is really to allow it all to be right. So, as soon as these maybe big emotions come through your psyche, instead of pushing them and going into that perfect reframe because reframe is great, we can work on the reframe on the other side, right, but allowing ourselves to actually feel what it is is going to be your first step period. Feeling it, allowing it to be there and the thing with shadow work too are with a lot of people. You know, we want to push it away. We want to push away these feelings, these thoughts, because no one wants to see anyone in the middle of the street screaming right, like we've all been told, like what is appropriate, what's inappropriate behavior, right. So what that means is that we've got to find a way, a way that is appropriate, you can say right, in order to move it, and that is something that that we can do. If we pull it close or pull it close, the thing about shadow is we want to integrate it, we want to bring it in.
Speaker 1You know they say that what you judge in others, you often deny yourself yes, right, exactly. And that really what that makes me think of is when I was younger, you know I would judge women that were very much in their sensuality or in their sexuality, and that judgment came from a place of denying that within myself. And so, through all of this work too, I was able to come deeper into my sexuality and sensuality and really begin to celebrate that and understand it and be in it and allow that part of me to exist, whereas before I was taught, you know, growing up in the church in the South, I was told that that wasn't okay.
Speaker 1And now I can look at a woman in her centrality and just congratulations, like you, fucking go Because you're exploring or embracing your own, yeah, integrating, bringing it in and really embodying that part of me.
Speaker 1Another example, too I remember when I was really young. I remember, like you would see people with like maybe pink hair, purple hair or something like that, and I remember would have conversations with my family members like they're just wanting attention, right, they're just trying to be unique, right. But really what it was was my suppression of my own individuality and my own artistic expression.
Speaker 3What a concept.
Rewilding: Coming Home to Yourself
Speaker 2So I remember seeing you. You posted dance classes and those types of things. Is that what you're referring to with, I guess, embracing your sensuality and things that have helped you with?
Speaker 1that? Yeah, definitely, I would say dance was one of the biggest things because I used to dance when I was younger and so bringing that back in my 30s and late 30s, like that was such a liberating moment, right, doing even pole dancing and all different kinds of dance to really bring me deeper into the feeling in my body, into my own very sensuality. And being in Bali, we get into a lot of maybe some things that the Western world would call like really weird but really deep women's work, where you're really doing work with your womb, learning about your womb, learning about your pussy, like really getting into this deep feminine work. And I forget the author, regina, something the book called Pussy A Reclamation, and that's a book that I recommend to everyone, especially women in their 30s, to really reclaim that connection with their body again.
Speaker 2Just speaking of touch and I guess, the body and everything like that. I think one of the reasons why I would like to take one of your trainees we both went to Jay Bradley for our facilitator training, level one but I actually, when I am facilitating breathwork and you probably know this and it is kind of a shadow thing for me is I am very timid and scared of touch and just getting physically close to people. And I know the part of your practice and what you teach your students is light Reiki. Could you kind of describe Reiki for people?
Speaker 1Yeah, yeah. So I would say, a lot of people that come into this training. Some are Reiki attuned and some are not, and so Reiki is essentially an energetic kind of work. But the thing is, you don't have to be Reiki qualified, right? What I really believe is that we all have this healing energy that we can work with and that we can help support other people with One of my friends was just saying that you, I guess, like for your healthier well-being, should have like a hug a day.
Speaker 2Yes, like 20 second hug, yeah, yeah yeah, yes, I have a client.
Speaker 1We used to Nat Balda, wherever you are. We used to. We would hug for like 20 seconds just to get that oxytocin connection and it's so important. And, like you said earlier, so many people are alone, they're living alone, they're working, they're. They really feel like they're having to do it alone. What's worse is when you have people around you or you're in partnership and you still feel alone. Oh, that's the worst that's the worst.
Speaker 2Yeah, yeah, okay, so prioritizing the 22nd hug the, the 22nd hug, yes.
Speaker 1And also, like, when it comes to touch and breath work, what I love so much about it and we're talking light touch here and we're talking touch on maybe the belly and the chest, maybe the shoulders, the head, the hips, maybe the knees, maybe the feet, and this touch can be really helpful when we are experiencing emotions moving in different spaces. Right, if we look at humans, right, we hold a lot of emotion, maybe a lot of trauma, in our hips. Right, and our heart, oh, the heartbreak, right. And so, when you have someone, you're in this deep experience and you're just, you're going in and you feel this warmth on your chest and this feeling of like, oh, someone's got me, I'm not alone, I'm not alone, I'm not alone.
Speaker 2Yeah, it is such a comforting feeling. One of the things too with shadow work, I imagine and what I was thinking about when I wrote the poem is that a lot of times you want your life to be on this trajectory, where you never go back. You know and like regress and feel these horrible feelings again, and then sometimes, when you do, you're like, oh my gosh, like I'm helpless because I've done all this work and now I'm back in this place. But I imagine that that is part of the shadow work too is just being friends with your shadow so that you're never having that feeling. You know that you're like going back because you're like this is just a part of life and accepting that.
Speaker 1Exactly. I firmly believe that there is no going back, right. And so, as we continue through this game of life, we're going to hit big experiences, right, we're going to hit things that might trip us up a little bit, leaning on your tools. Your tools could be your breath, your movement, your journaling, your friends, right, leaning on your tools and really bringing all parts of yourself together, your tools, and really bringing all parts of yourself together. Okay, I'm feeling better, let's go, let's continue to go. Ah shit, this thing just happened, right? Okay, let me pull it together, because the thing is like, as we continue to move, I really do believe, too, that the trajectory it rises, and so there literally is no going back, because that experience that you had is going to help you through the experience that you're in.
Speaker 1So, it's really never that descent Going back.
Speaker 2Yeah, so your breathwork company practice is called Rewild Breathwork and I was looking up the word Rewild last night, rewild last night, and it's going. I imagine it's going back into your innate state, or yeah could you describe what it means to you?
Speaker 1Yeah, it's literally coming back home. It's coming back to who we were before conditioning, before all of these patterns came to play. It's literally going back to that primal self, and a lot of us we might not recognize who that is because we've built these personalities and protection mechanisms right so that we could stay safe. But the thing about rewilding is going back to primal. What is primal? Primal is that shaking Impala right. Primal is being in our truest expression, being in our truest authenticity. It's really, it's shaking down all of these belief systems and it's really coming into like, who are you?
The Darkness Retreat Experience
Speaker 1Ooh, I remember in my first Breathwork session too, I kept hearing this question who are you? Well, I'm Jamie. No, who are you? Okay, well, I work at the Dodgers. And no, who are you? I'm Jamie. No, who are you? Okay, well, I work at the Dodgers. No, who are you? I'm the daughter of John and Cherie. No, who are you? And I remember in that session I couldn't answer the question. That's what Rewild is? It's going so, so deep, so so deep to really find who you truly are Blank slate, blank slate.
Speaker 2So if you were to answer that question now, what would you say?
Speaker 1Gosh, who I am now is. I'm a woman of love, a woman of love that that creates incredible experiences. I'm a soul in this body, um, and I'm just the, the light and the dark together.
Speaker 2I love that. What are some of the profound experiences that you've witnessed, that people have had through both, I guess your facilitator training and then also just facilitating breathwork for people?
Speaker 1Yeah, I mean I'm sure that you've seen these profound, profound shifts and changes as well. I mean, it's hard, that's such a hard question, yeah.
Speaker 2I guess I know I'm like I'm thinking when you were describing your first breathwork experience. I've said this at breathwork sessions but I saw my eye from the side and I was looking and like seeing, versus just looking, you know, and not actually seeing things for what they were, like just an eye that was kind of like I don't know, almost like clouded and couldn't see, and I just sketched it. I like remember the sketch that I did of it in my notebook and I feel like that, I mean, if all else fails, I feel like some days I know that I'm at least like have the blinders up you know like I can see what's going on for the most part you know, so that was one of the big takeaways for me.
Speaker 2And then I do remember, actually one of the first ones I kind of had the same who am I, what do I really want, type of thing, and art definitely came to mind.
Speaker 2And the last, you know, I just interviewed Elizabeth and we were just in her or you're in her artist way group right now, and so I'm rediscovering that. But, like we were talking about, it's cool because breathwork can, even if it's something that, just like this idea, that sparks in you and years go by. You know, though, it's like a truth, and it's there for you to look at whenever you know you're ready.
Speaker 1Things that I see in students. A lot of times it's these out-of-body experiences, it's visions, it's deep connections to loved ones that's passed, it is messages from loved ones that's passed, it's messages from God. There are moments in breathwork I call them God moments, when it's literally this deep divine connection, where it's almost like it's such this inner knowing, like you said, an intuition as this all-time high. You know, people will often compare this type of breathwork to a psychedelic experience. Often, um, compare this type of breath work to a psychedelic experience, but the difference is is that you're completely in control during this experience.
Speaker 1I always tell people you know, if there's a fire downstairs, I'll say there's a fire and we'll go downstairs like it's not this psychedelic experience that you're stuck in it for 15 hours right and that's something that I love about this style of breath, because we're not, it's not in everyone's belief system to go down into a jungle and have ayahuasca right. What we can do, though, is we can almost recreate that experience. We can allow our breath to take us into these non-ordinary states of consciousness in a really safe way.
Speaker 2And it's all through your own body.
Speaker 1Yes, it's through your own body, your own mind, and especially for people that want to explore, maybe, a traumatic event or explore something they've experienced in the past, they can come into a breath journey in literally a supportive space, a space in which that memory is not happening in real time, right, but we're able to go in and process it in our body as if it were.
Speaker 2So something that was interesting to me and you've, so you've mentioned in some of the experiences I've been in of yours, your ancestors, and honestly, it never really like it's been in the back of my head ever since. I think some of the times, even if it was on Zoom breathwork, when you were in Bali and you mentioning the ancestors, like, and then behind you and supporting you, it's been on my radar, but I never fully. I was imagining in my head for some reason, like black and white images of, like, old people that I just didn't connect with at all and I was like this is not like feeling supportive.
Speaker 3You know what I mean.
Speaker 2And then randomly in the last on this past Wednesday, when I went to your breathwork session. You I loved that you went through the visualization exercise that I first experienced in breathwork with you of imagining, you know, three circles of people and the people from your life right now, and then your ancestors and people you don't even know yet, but the ancestors. Something clicked in me and I saw my this. I might get emotional like my grandpa, like at my age. You get emotional like my grandpa, like at my age.
Speaker 3You know, like and it was like I feel like I just don't think about him anymore because he's been gone for so long, and like it was just like crazy to think about him, like me, you know, like he was, like I know that he was this like attractive, like you know, just like normal guy that I would probably hang out with you know, and like like thinking of that like really just like felt really good, you know.
Speaker 1So anyway, so powerful, annie. Yeah, that's so beautiful and that's breathwork, yeah, that's breathwork. Coming into this deep, deep connection, yeah, um, with self, with those that have passed that, those that are here. You know, it's funny, you mentioned that breathwork, that breathwork or no, that, um, meditation. Uh-huh, I was on the beach. You were probably there with me. This was probably 2018 or 19. I think it was with Rob Starbuck. He used to go to the beach and I go into this breathwork journey and I walked that path in that breathwork journey.
Speaker 1I walked that path, I walked across the bridge. I saw all the people that loved me. I saw my ancestry and my lineage. I didn't recognize everyone, but I knew some of them. I knew they were holding me. I saw every version of myself that had ever existed. And I got out of that breathwork and I had a notebook like yours here, and it was yellow, and I wrote stick figures of everyone. I wrote stick figures of who was in these circles, and I know that that'll be a book one day.
Speaker 2I love that. I definitely think you should do that, and I know that there'll be a book one day. I love that. I definitely think you should do that, and I feel like it's something that everyone should experience because, yeah, I think that's I've had similar experiences too, and that's kind of what led me to the visualization poetry, you know, and exploring these different versions of you, and I think that, yeah, through breathwork and through an exercise like that, where you're looking at these different versions of you and also just like seeing that older version, it just gives you kind of like comfort, you know, and peace in the present moment, because you're like, I've met her.
Speaker 3Like she's cool.
Speaker 2She's actually cooler than me right now. It's just like remembering that sometimes, whenever life seems crazy and you have all the insecurities and everything.
Speaker 1Yeah, and you know, just you saying that made something come to my mind, and that is what's the point, right, like, why do we do this work? Why are we even talking about shadow work? Why are there people that are out there breathing to be able to understand more parts of themselves? Like, what's the point of all this? And I've asked myself that before in some, you know, tough moments like what's the point? But the point of all of this is, literally, for me, it's freedom. Right, to be able to move past these big emotions, these big thoughts, these big feelings.
Speaker 1It holds so much bandwidth in our brain. Right, when we are blaming someone, when we're ruminating about the past, when we're questioning ourself, when we're talking so mean to ourself. Right, who else does that? Like? Who has this negative feedback loop sometimes? Right, that's why we do this.
Speaker 1We do this so that we can understand that number one we didn't do anything wrong, it's not our fault. What we've experienced is not our fault, but the healing what we've experienced is not our fault, but the healing it's our responsibility. That's huge Right, and that allows for us to have a bigger life, a life that we truly want, a life. I mean, we're here once, exactly. We're literally here once and time is short. So do we want to go around blaming people, getting pissed off, having road rage, right? Do we want to be in those feelings or do we want to be in the feeling of creation? Do we want to create something the world's never seen? Do we want to be in compassion and love and do we want to give back to the world, make the world a better place? That's why I do this.
Speaker 2Yes, I was not to make this like not as profound, but like I was getting spray tans last night, I love you I love you girl was like standing there in my underwear, you know, and I'm telling you, like what are you doing? Like getting this, or? And I was like, oh, you know, like I haven't, I haven't reached the point where I'm like looking at older annie who's not tan, I mean, maybe she is spray tan.
Speaker 1Maybe she just lives somewhere that she's tan all the time.
Speaker 2Yeah, maybe she's tan all the time and so that's why I'm doing it. She had never heard of breathwork and I think that because I was starting to question myself, because my brother was. We were at dinner the other night and he was like Annie, like you know, you have art, you have art, you have your painting, you have this like breathwork stuff and poetry. He's like you need to pick one, like you can't do all this, like that's like you would have to be superhuman, you know to like work, a full-time job and do these things. And I was like yeah, maybe. Like when she said that and asked me what breathwork was, I got so excited and I was like, no, like this is something that needs to be talked about and I feel like you're the perfect person to talk about with it. Talk about it with because you know it so deeply, but it is. I am so passionate, like you are, about other people experiencing it so that they can tap into you know this, knowing that they can use you know Same, same.
Speaker 1It's my greatest life's work, it's my mission, it's my passion, it's my dharma for people to experience themselves in a way that they never thought they could so there are other modalities.
Speaker 2You know that um can be used for shadow work and that you've explored, and so some one that I really want to chat about, because I haven't heard yet, is the darkness retreat that you just did.
Speaker 1Yes, okay, oh, my God, okay, babe, talk darkness. So this was in Bali last year and I've heard of people doing this going into caves, going into darkness and this has been done in Eastern philosophies for eons.
Speaker 2Okay, I didn't know that.
Speaker 3Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1It's been part of rites of passages, right, and you ever get that, knowing you're like I know I'm going to do that, and so somehow my fingers are booking the place online and I'm like, ok, that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 2Could you describe really quick what that entailed? Like what you saw online and you're like that I'm in that I'm in.
Speaker 1Well, it was essentially being in a completely dark space by yourself for an extended amount of time. So what this looked like for me was three days in a room that was completely pitch black and we're talking like sealed from the door. Everything is pitch black, even when they would deliver the food to me. They would deliver it through this little window in the wall that they would close, so then I could open. Annie, it was so funny. I would get my meal and I would put my hand in and be like, oh, it's soup today, right. So it was such a disorienting experience and moments.
Speaker 1Imagine this room. I'm terrible with like square footage, but I would say it was really small. There was a twin bed, there was a shower, there was a toilet and there was a bench with a desk and it was all very, very tight together. It had a little room in the middle where you could put a yoga mat and that was basically it, and every day, breakfast would come at nine, lunch would come at one and dinner would come at six. Is that the only way you knew the time? That's the only way that I knew what time it was, because the breakfast was always like a breakfast type item right Smoothie bowl or something and that's how I knew exactly where I was in the day. What I found to be the most profound thing was that I only knew that I was sleeping because I would dream in color.
Speaker 2That is amazing. Yeah, that is. I was going to ask how you knew. Okay, so every so you're awake and everything is black, pretty much, and then you dream and sleep.
Speaker 1And so people ask, like Jamie, what did you do in there, right, for three days? What'd you do? Well, I brought my drum, I drummed, I prayed, I meditated. I wanted to go in this experience because I wanted to know who I was. At yet a deeper level, I want to learn and know and be in this entire experience called life. And it was honestly the most profound, because if you go into a plant medicine experience, if you go into a breathwork experience or a meditation experience, any kind of modality, it happens and then it's over, right, our breathwork, we're there an hour and a half and we're done.
Speaker 1This was an experience that I could, that I just stayed in forever. It felt like because I would go under one thought and that would lead me under another, and under another and under another and I really, um, I went into the depths of love, I went to the depths of privilege and I was able to just go deeper and deeper and deeper within myself. It was was one of the most profound experiences, but before it was so profound, I was talking about when I walked in. So when I walked in, it was almost dusk, and so in Bali, that's when, like, the mosquitoes are coming right. So the guy brings me in and I was like, are the mosquitoes going to get in? He's like, oh, they might. And so he basically like shut the door really quickly. And then I just looked around and was like, oh, I guess I'm in it now. And there was a moment of panic that kicked in when I couldn't figure out the air conditioning Right.
Speaker 2Because it's dark and you couldn't figure it out.
Speaker 1I couldn't figure anything out. So I'm trying to, like, get the air con right. So that was a moment of panic that I had to use my breath and my tools to bring me back down. And then I remember I was, I guess, trying to brush my teeth or something, and I turned the wrong dial and the shower comes over my head. And that was a moment of panic of like I don't know how, like I don't know, I don't know. So there were definitely moments that challenged me, moments that panicked me, moments that I was scared, and at any moment you can walk out the door. The door is unlocked, you can leave.
Speaker 2Oh, the door is unlocked. I guess I never thought about that.
Speaker 1Yeah, you can leave whenever you want, right, and so, in those moments, though, instead of just running because I think a lot of times in my life I would just run that really allowed me to make friends with that part of me that wants to run right, that shadow part that just that needs to run away, to pull her a little bit closer and really set in it. It really gave me time to be. You know, when we look at shadow work, we often look at inner child work, hand in hand.
Speaker 1It gave me time to be with that inner child that has been scared and has run away before.
Speaker 1That inner child that was 35, that was scared and that ran away right Right Was allowing me to really bring all these parts of me so so much closer. I would say it's definitely not a beginner's modality. You want to go in with tools, tool up. They also say that after a certain amount of time in the dark, that your body starts to create DMT, which is essentially what is can be released in breath, work and also comes through an ayahuasca experience. So it's also this deep, deep healing.
Speaker 2It's kind of a psychedelic experience, yeah.
Speaker 1So you're seeing, although it's pitch black, there's visions and there's colors and there's shapes. At one point I swear I had night vision. Right, it was incredible. And it was so incredible that I three days felt doable, and now I want to book one for five days.
Speaker 2So yeah, Is it kind of like. I mean, it's nothing like it, but you know going into an ice bath and you are pushing yourself because you know you can get out at any time, but's nothing like it. But you know, going into an ice bath and you are pushing yourself because you know you can get out at any time, but you're like I know that me doing this is like helping me and I'm sitting with it and then, yeah, you want to go back and do more. Yeah, exactly Exactly. So what were your tools? I guess. So it was breath. Yeah, a lot of experience with meditation.
Speaker 1And then also just prayer, like honestly being able to be in such deep prayer through the entire experience. So, breath, meditation, prayer, singing. I was able to do a little bit of movement, a little bit of shaking, but honestly I didn't really move that much.
Speaker 2I did a lot of drumming, a lot of singing and so where did your thoughts lead you in terms of yeah, if there's?
Speaker 1any takeaways that you want to share? Gosh, there's so many takeaways and I probably can't say it was such like profoundness now, but there was so much in there around love. There were two major themes. One was about love and this idea of what is lovable, right. So many times, so many of us, we grow up just am I even lovable, right? Am I worthy of love? And then that brought me deeper and deeper and deeper into the shadow, deeper into my little Jamie, who is craving for love, and how I could give her that love Right. And how I just came out. I know I'm lovable, I know I'm love Right. You know you are loved because you love you Exactly. And then, on the other side, was this deep pain of the world that I just went, I just spiraled into, of so much poverty, of war, of destruction, of so much, just so many horrible things happening in the world. So many things I mean literally. Even look down your street or in your city, like there is pain literally everywhere.
Speaker 1Even look down your your street or in your city, like there, there is pain literally everywhere, and I really went into um this idea of privilege.
Creating a World We Don't Need to Heal From
Speaker 1You know, I grew up in America. Right, I grew up in a small town with a loving family and as I got older I remember feeling um guilt for having anger or these big emotions, and the guilt was in, you know. But I grew up with loving family, I grew up in a safe space with food on my table. I shouldn't feel this way, and so I went through just the layers and layers of what privilege is and came out with these really profound ideas around service and how to bring service into my business even more so with Rewild Breathwork we give to these kiddos with disabilities in Bali. We help them have their teacher, because a lot of kids don't go to school in Bali. Right, we do work with Paeda House in Ireland, and that's all around suicide. We do work in Peru with women that have been sex trafficked, and there's so much good we can do in the world, and I think that was a major piece that came out of it too.
Speaker 2That's what I wanted to talk a little bit more about is rewild breathwork and what you've see, or what you're doing now and what you see the future being, because I did not know about that work that you're doing with the kids. That's amazing because I yeah, I agree, it's the big world suffering things are the things that, like I, mentally kind of push down because it's too much, it's overwhelming, but at the same time, yeah, the only thing that you can do is just whatever small, little, small or big actions that you can take and feel it's within your control, but, yeah, with the rewild breathwork, otherwise. So you are focused on teaching other people how to become breathwork facilitators so that they can spread the goodness of breathwork, exactly.
Speaker 1Our vision at reewild Breathwork is to create a world that we don't have to heal from, and what that means is teaching students all around the world to carry this modality to their communities. It changes lives. I'm proof of it. You're proof of it, right. We've trained over 170 facilitators in over 16 countries. Wow, and we are. We're just growing and expanding, right, we've trained over 170 facilitators in over 16 countries. Wow, and we are. We're just growing and expanding.
Speaker 1So when you work with Rewild whether it is learning to be a facilitator or if it's just coming to one of our sessions you also know that your money is going to charity in a way as well, and these are service initiatives that we care so deeply about and that have really touched my heart and my soul, and so a big piece of like if you look at our layers here. It's the science, it's the sacredness and it's the service behind it all. Yeah, so where we are now, we do breathwork teacher trainings. It's called a level one, trauma-informed, somatic breathwork practitioner training. We have those located in Los Angeles in person, bali in person and Ireland in person. We also do virtual trainings throughout the year, and it's really all about coming home to ourself and learning this practice in a trauma-informed way, learning this practice through the lens of somatics and through the body and really working in a safe. Safe way Because, as you know, with breathwork, that's the most important thing is creating these really safe environments.
Speaker 2Exactly and I can attest that I was telling you. There's just there's definitely a difference between the classes that I've gone to that are not rewild versus rewild, not saying like nothing. There's no such things like good or bad, but I think safe is probably a really good way to describe it very intentional, very safe, very like catered to the moment and the people. Yeah, I want more people to experience it.
Speaker 1Me too, me too, me too. It's incredible and I can't really say enough about all of the humans that have come through our training, like they're literally. They're hosting retreats and workshops and sessions and literally you can find them all over the world. We just had our first student come in through Botswana, in Latvia, like in them all over the world. We just had our first student come in through. Botswana and Latvia like in all corners of the world. We have we have these incredible facilitators.
Speaker 2I feel like one thing that I want to dedicate more time to in my life is travel. Because I'm just, I don't travel that much, but I imagine it's really amazing to see breathwork across. You know all these different cultures and parts of the world and probably like the similarities, maybe some differences, yeah.
Final Reflections on Breath and Connection
Speaker 1Oh, it's amazing, it's some. I want to say it's one of the most incredible things. You know how there's like World Meditation Day, right? I didn't know that we should make like a World Breathwork Day. Yes, right, could you imagine everyone in the frequency of breath in their heart, in that deep space, like all together, just how it could lift the entire world. You know I had the pleasure of spending time with Wim Hof late last year.
Speaker 2Oh yeah, that's right yeah.
Speaker 1At Summit. Yes, I'm with Wim Hof late last year. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, yes, and he, his passion and his knowing and his conviction around breath, oh my gosh, it inspired even me so much. He was going to leave this event and go to the Middle East and do breathwork with some of the leaders there. Wow, and he was just like. He said this in such a no nonsense way. He's like, well, of course things will get better if we do breathwork, like of course, because the thing is like, when we come into that deeper connection to ourself, we come into all these shadow parts, we come into love, we come into everything we've talked about on this podcast. Right, we are just kinder people, right, totally, if we can really move all of these really heavy emotions, all this anger, if we can move it into healthy ways of release, we're just not assholes, totally. It's crazy right.
Speaker 2That's funny that you say that, because I, like others, have been thinking OK, everyone just needs to do mushrooms and the world will be a better place. But I didn't even think. I always compare. I say breathwork, so many mushroom trip, like we were talking about, and yeah, so I guess breathwork would be an even like safer, more realistic option. Yeah, exactly so. If someone is interested now in participating in or learning more about breathwork, where should they go? What should they do? I know you mentioned that it's available in certain cities, but I guess, whether someone's in LA or elsewhere.
Speaker 1Yeah, so we do online classes, and these online classes are really open to everyone because this is just a way for you to experience what this is like. And these online classes are really open to everyone because this is just a way for you to experience what this is like. And, again, you're the captain of this experience when you're in. So we have online sessions. We have sessions in Los Angeles. Again, we do trainings in LA, bali, ireland. We do trainings virtually.
Speaker 1You can find us on Instagram, so my handle is at Jamie Janko, or you can look at Rewild Breathwork. We're also on TikTok at Rewild Breathwork and our websites rewildbreathworkcom, and what I would say, too, is look up breathwork. Like see if there might be someone in your city. You might not even know it. If you have access to go to a breathwork class, check the facilitator and make sure it's someone that you feel a connection with. Go, just go and explore. Like what's the worst that can happen? Right, you know you might shed some tears. You might find deeper insight. Really, I would suggest to get into the practice, explore the practice and, if you're someone that needs deeper support, seek out therapies in your locations, too. There's beautiful somatic therapists that are out there too.
Speaker 2Beautiful. Everyone should definitely check it out, and I selfishly want you to have a brick and mortar location someday in.
Speaker 3LA.
Speaker 2Where it just classes 24 seven.
Speaker 1I would love to have a space that could be in the future as well, like a space where, instead of me going to all these places during the trainings, more people come to what this location could be. So maybe in the future there is some kind of a retreat center or something like that, yeah, that could be amazing.
Speaker 2And then you also have the level two training coming up.
Speaker 1Yes, we got a level two training coming up this year in Bali. There's also retreat in Peru that I'll be teaming up with Sacred Woman Collective. That's going to be absolutely incredible. So if you want to experience this work at depth not ready to go into facilitator training, but you want to experience it come down to Peru with us in October, near Machu Picchu.
Speaker 2Machu Picchu.
Speaker 3Yes, it's still on my radar, on my wishlist.
Speaker 2Well, thank you, Jamie, for the amazing conversation and chat.
Speaker 1Yeah, thank you, annie.
Speaker 2Thanks for listening. If something from Jamie's story resonated with you, let it linger and see where it takes you. You'll find ways to connect with her in the show notes and if you're curious about more ways to reconnect with yourself, come say hi on Instagram at HeyBreathWord. Until next time, may you keep living. Like breath is poetry and life a poem unfolding even in the shadow.