The Chain Effect Podcast

How to Have Awesome Poop!

• Chain Effect

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In this episode we take a deep dive into the bowels (eww). We discuss the relationship of fiber to the gut microbiome, how the gut-brain axis impacts us, misconceptions about a healthy gut, and awkward songs that pop up on Taylor's Echo Show while treating. 

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04:

Welcome to the Chain Effect podcast, where a physical therapist and a dietitian married with two kids juggle the struggle of running a business, raising a family, and prioritizing our own health, all while trying to have as much fun as possible.

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We're your hosts, Taylor Pope, doctor of physical therapy,

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and Caroline Pope, registered dietitian.

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Together, we own and operate a health facility, bringing together physical therapists, dietitians, personal trainers, and active recovery services to create what we call the Chain Effect. So today is definitely our oldest son's favorite episode. Because we're talking about poop. And not just poop. I mean, really, we're talking about fiber and the microbiome.

SPEAKER_04:

And how it's all connected and how what we eat is... influences our gut and not just like, Oh, I'm bloated. We're going to get deep into what's actually going on.

SPEAKER_01:

And not just, you know, what, what our poops look like. Right. Oh yeah. We're going deep. You know, I'm at work and, uh, I have a echo show where it's like the screen. Um, so you can kind of see news updates and you know, what song you're playing.

SPEAKER_04:

It's like a visual

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and it's connected to our, our Alexa at home. And so, um, I'm constantly seeing the most recently played song. And at least once a day, it's like poop, poop, poop, poop, poop, or poop under my fingernails. Or what's the name? What's the name of Mr. Poop? And you know what? There's someone out there who are, who's creating these songs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

Writing the lyrics and then sitting down and recording it for kids.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And so any kid that goes and is like,

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Alexa,

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play poop under my fingernails. And then all of a sudden, like, how does that even? Yeah.

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So, yeah. So they're yelling at our Alexa at home. I I met him with them and then he's getting it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

You're seeing that work. Whoops. And then we fight over the song sometimes.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But anyway, so today we're going to get deep. We're going to get deep down in the guts, right? We're going to be learning all about, you know, probiotics. We're going to be learning about this crazy thing called the gut brain axis. It's going to be, it's going to be mind blowing. So,

SPEAKER_02:

um,

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How about we just start with some of the misconceptions, like the common misconceptions about fiber, about...

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Gut health in general.

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The gut health in general.

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What makes your gut healthy.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm going to tell you what I've heard and then you just tell me if that's right. My gut is healthy because I eat Greek yogurt and drink kombucha.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it could be, but what is the rest of your diet? Is it all McDonald's?

SPEAKER_01:

Low-carb diets are all protein, and that must be healthy.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. This is where if you are having an extreme diet where you're not, like the carnivore diet or something, where you're not allowing yourself to have plants. I know some of those do, but... You might not be getting enough fiber. It's really hard if you're super low carb where you're not able to get in starchy vegetables, whole grains, fruits, things like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Because meat doesn't have fiber, right? None? Like very little? Yeah.

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None.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, okay. It's from plants. Fruit has too much sugar and should be avoided.

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But fruit also has a lot of fiber. So if you're getting rid of fruit because you're scared of the sugar and the carbs, you're getting rid of a whole group of foods, right? That is a great source of fiber and vitamins and minerals and hydration. Next.

SPEAKER_01:

And energy. I mean, I use fruit like as a pre-workout.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, great.

SPEAKER_01:

I take a probiotic so my gut is healthy.

SPEAKER_04:

This is complicated because there are so many different types out there now. And some, you know, one we don't really know. without doing a whole bunch of tests, which strains we need. Like where is the dysbiosis, which is like what we're low in, what we don't have enough of. And then some pills, depending on the type, they are sensitive to hot temperatures, different storage. They might need to be put in the fridge and you don't realize it. They might be sensitive to acidic foods. If you take a probiotic and then you're drinking coffee right after it or eating an orange or something, sometimes that can affect and actually kill a lot of the strains, even though a lot of them now have like... One billion. One billion dollars or one billion strains. It's crazy in one pill. So not necessarily. I mean, you might. That could be helpful. We'll talk about later what we can do to really make our guts stronger. Probiotics are on the list. But if you're only doing that and we don't really know what type it is and your diet's also not, you know, has the things it needs, it may not be too helpful.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. I get all my fiber from processed foods that add a lot of fiber, and that's got to be healthy, right?

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You see this sometimes on foods like wraps and breads. The fiber is like 18 grams in one tortilla.

SPEAKER_01:

Certified keto. Yeah. They're certified keto because they have 18 grams of fiber and 20 grams of carbs. Yeah, so

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the net carbs. Yeah, so I wouldn't count net carbs. I mean, typically it's good to look at the fiber. It's good to look at the carbs, but I usually don't look at net carbs because it can be a really crazy ratio like that. And it's processed. So ideally whole foods, getting your fiber from whole foods will be more helpful.

SPEAKER_01:

I can only get fiber... from eating raisin bran and oatmeal, right? That's where fiber comes from. That's the

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old school thing, right? I feel like doctors, that's what everyone hears. Like, well, I'm eating oatmeal for my cholesterol to get my fiber up. Or raisin bran or crackling oat bran or whatever has a ton of sugar in it as well. So there are better foods that can have more fiber per calories or per carbs depending on what your goals are. So you can get more fiber, more bang for your buck.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. And lastly... I poop all the time, so I'm regular.

SPEAKER_04:

And you could be, but also a high fat processed diet or high sugar diet can lead to loose stools or a little bit more regularity, which may not be a good thing. So one thing you can look at if you're interested in going down the rabbit hole or you know, really identifying your poops. There's something called a Bristol stool scale. I

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recommend looking at this cause you may look,

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you may be interested in, you may have heard it before, but if you look at it on a website, it'll describe like what's the better one. So there's seven different types with visuals type one to two indicate constipation type three to four are kind of ideal stools. They're easier to pass. Um,

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there's like an Audubon nature guide for your poops

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and then type five or seven may indicate diarrhea and urgency. But, you know, you can do. It's advised if you're interested or if you feel like you're super irregular in the consistency. You can do a poop diary like we do food diaries. You could keep a little chart in your bathroom and, you know, make a note each day.

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Just take pictures with your phone and just be careful. Please don't take pictures. You're scrolling through your photos.

UNKNOWN:

Oops.

SPEAKER_04:

Please don't.

SPEAKER_01:

Or put them in a separate folder, right? If you're going to take pictures of your food. With like a passcode, maybe. Put them in a separate folder. Don't just have them out there with the regular, you know, check out this new outfit.

SPEAKER_04:

But that's something you could look at if you're interested. But anyways, we are going to start talking about, you know, what we actually need in the diet, what's important to look at, and how we can get those things to help our gut microbiome. So fiber, otherwise known, heard of as bulk or adding roughage, like I'm eating my vegetables, that's roughage. is basically different than other food components. It's in plants, it's unlike fats, proteins and carbs because the body doesn't actually digest fiber. So it passes through part of the GI tract, the stomach, the small intestine, the colon, largely unabsorbed and undigested and absorbs water and creates bulk that helps the intestines push waste out of the body. So that's what helps constipation and may also reduce the risk of certain diseases. But there's two different types of fiber. soluble and insoluble, which are both important. And so a lot of foods have both, but it's important to have enough fiber in general. And so soluble, it dissolves in water and GI fluids. So that's soluble. And then insoluble fiber remains solid throughout digestion. So both have different health benefits, but the fermentable fibers are largely soluble fiber, and that's what really helps feed our bacteria in our gut, in the colon. So when we talk about gut, that's the colon, the large intestine, the lowest part. And so the fermentable fibers are largely from soluble fibers.

SPEAKER_01:

Wait, it's not in the stomach?

SPEAKER_04:

No.

UNKNOWN:

No.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh, this whole time, I think forever, I've thought it was just what's going on in your stomach.

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Because people talk about gut, oh, I punched my gut, or this guttural response, or all these different terms. So the gut microbiome is really referring to what is happening in the colon, the large intestine. So that's at the end of that GI tract.

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So fiber is the fuel for this bacteria, for this microbiome.

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So what's great is these plants you eat that have fiber, There are quite a bit of like plants that have resistant starch or inulin fibers. Those are examples of fermentable fibers. They feed, basically they move on down your GI tract and do different functions along the way. But then they get to the large intestine and there are bacteria ready to eat them and break them down more. because that is food and fuel for that good bacteria. And so they're metabolized to yield short-chain fatty acids which have diverse roles in GI health. They can reduce inflammation, they can do a lot of things we'll talk about in a second. But yeah, so fiber is not only helpful for lowering cholesterol levels, controlling blood sugar.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I was going to say, it's like, we talked about that a lot with, you know, using fiber and things to help slow down your, you know, blood sugar

SPEAKER_04:

spikes. Yeah. So it helps because it's not digested. It just kind of helps slow down that gastric emptying, you know, and kind of slow down digestion. Um, but it helps reduce cholesterol as well. It, um, um, and then insoluble fiber, um, It adds bulk obviously to help promote regularity, prevent constipation. So there's a lot of other things that fiber does, but when it gets to the colon, if it's a fermentable fiber, it helps feed that bacteria, which is awesome. So when we get to that colon, which is the gut we're talking about from here on out, not actually the stomach, but the colon, there are over, and the numbers are always changing in research, but over 38 trillion microbes in the colon. Wow. which is crazy. I think I heard a gastroenterologist talk about like that's as many or more than the stars in the solar system or something all in our gut. And so when our bacteria, which is probiotics, that's another word for bacteria, they're eating on that fiber, they turn it, they convert those fibers that are not digested until they get to the colon into those short-chain fatty acids. Those help suppress bad microbes. They're signaling molecules for immune cells in the enlarged intestine, so they have a big response in immune health as well as lowering inflammation. So they can also pass through the blood-brain barrier, like they can go up to the brain and heal brain and lower inflammation in the brain as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. There's not a lot of things that pass through that blood-brain barrier, I feel like.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And you might have heard of them, short-chain fatty acids. Some of the names are like acetate, butyrate, lactate. So they serve as energy substrates too, but they do a lot of things. They contribute to the synthesis of essential vitamins like vitamin K, B12, thiamine. And so that's also helpful for our GI mucosal cells, which helps the integrity of our gut, basically, our small and large intestine.

SPEAKER_01:

Do they feed, are those what's on the cilia cells? It's like the mucus, right? That helps everything kind of move down.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. Well, that brings us to like, have you heard of leaky gut? You know, a lot of people hear of that term leaky gut, which some people don't like using, some people do. It is natural to have a certain level of intestinal permeability. It is normal and it's necessary for nutrient absorption. So yeah, the cilia is like kind of the outer layer, but you need some nutrients to pass in and out of the intestine for absorption and then also for immune function as well but excessive intestinal permeability through like all these little I don't know that's where physiology anatomy physiology get into that but you know all these different ways of getting into it from more permeability can lead to toxins getting in. That can lead to more bacteria to leak from the gut into the bloodstream, you know, if it's going in and out. And

SPEAKER_01:

we're not talking about like a hole in your colon because that's sepsis. But we're just talking about, you know, the food basically as it's absorbed and the different rates of permeability.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, so normally the cells of the intestinal wall form a tight, tight barrier that controls what goes in and out. And so this is just saying if you have increased intestinal permeability which can't, which, you know, the barrier becomes compromised, allowing larger molecules and toxins and bacteria to get in. But that can happen through diet that increased permeability that can happen through health conditions, through diet inflammation. So, um,

SPEAKER_01:

and basically it sounds like when you're taking, when you're having a lot of foods that, or antibiotics or things that like hurt the gut microbiome, you're kind of cleaving off like a layer of protective cells and protective organisms that are helping to, you know, eat that food and make sure you're absorbing the right things and, you know, you know, basically turn, turn our food into the, the proper things that we need to absorb.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And some of the big ones are like antibiotics, obviously, you know, when you, yeah. Oddly enough, I feel like a lot of doctors don't recommend taking a probiotic after someone's on an antibiotic. That is not like... widespread advice yet. It really should be. So if I know a patient that has been on an antibiotic recently, I'll definitely recommend a probiotic supplement on top of eating some good probiotic foods. However, yes, sugar, processed foods, highly processed foods, sugar, antibiotics, super inflammatory fats and oils, we know those really impact our gut and they can increase that gut permeability. So anytime there is... alterations in the typical gut microbiota, often related to the diet, it's a potential to disrupt the functions, all these functions. So it can lead to abnormal anti-hunger signals, increasing the gut permeability. It can lead to changes in hunger hormones, which could lead to overeating. It can mess up normal inflammation pathways, so it can increase inflammation. associated with obesity. There's, there's so many things that can change. So it can change hormone health. It can change, um, happiness.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I was going to say, it can also change how you feel, right? Yeah. It can affect your mental health.

SPEAKER_04:

Exactly. So that leads us to the gut brain access. And this

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is my mind when you were telling me about this,

SPEAKER_04:

the gut brain access is so interesting. And we are getting, you know, there's more and more research coming out, obviously, every day about this. But it is basically, you know, when you're getting, let's say, like, you're nervous for an exam, right? People get that, that gut. like the stomach ache or cramping or nauseous. A lot of people feel when they're nervous to when they have something going on where they're stressed. A lot of people get gut reactions from that. And That kind of explains the gut-brain access, but it's a lot deeper than that. So there are, you know, the gut-brain access begins below the mucous membrane lining and then is defined as any location where our gut and brain are communicating. And so that's a lot of different ways, but one of the main ones is the vagus nerve, which you know all about for physical therapy in your school.

SPEAKER_01:

And that's parasympathetic and sympathetic. You know, the vagus nerve is a big player in your autonomic nervous system. So that's your parasympathetic response and your sympathetic response. So basically sympathetic is fight or flight and parasympathetic is rest and digest or rest and recovery. And so, you know, we basically transition throughout the day into those two dominant states. And we've talked about this before, but a lot of people are basically living in a constant state of fight or flight or in a constant state of sympathetic nervous system dominance. And when we are in that state, blood is essentially getting shunted away from our digestive tract and into our skeletal muscle. And so it can help us run. Yeah. I mean, or fight a predator or lift a car off your kid. Right. I mean, it can, it can increase blood flow to the muscle 1200%. So, I mean, it can, it can really do some amazing things, but we're not meant to stay there. We're not meant to be in that state for very long. And when we have that like constant drip of stress and constant drip of phones, notification, emails, um, all that stuff that really kind of brings us into this like heightened state where we're unable to transition into into that parasympathetic nervous system dominance. And again, like we talked about it with, uh, on our new calm podcast, but it's all about brainwaves. I was going to say refer back

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to that's called pattern versus present. If you want to listen, go back and listen to that podcast episode. That's all about that. And so many people live in that state, you know, thinking about myself, like as a mom, working mom with two crazy kids. But, um, Yeah, so that vagus nerve, that's a great description. And it basically communicates in both directions. So the vagus nerve is one where it runs from your brain all the way down to your gut and back. And that is something that helps us with hunger and fullness cues as well. So like as we're eating, it helps notify our brain that we're getting full. So that's important. But it also... is kind of a pathway where serotonin runs from that as well. It's a road for serotonin and the immune system. And serotonin, our happy hormone, helps us feel a little bit better mental health-wise. It is involved in mood, sleep, appetite, gut motility, all that stuff. But it is primarily produced in the gut. So 90% of serotonin is synthesized in the gut. And when I learned that, I learned that, I don't know, five, six years ago. I mean, it just blew my mind. It was like, wow. So what you feed your gut and how healthy your gut is, that is a clear thing that impacts your mental health. And so we know that now. Scientists know that. Health professionals know that. And so balanced diets, that's another reason why a balanced diet, a healthy diet, whole foods, feeding that gut microbiome, literally feeding that bacteria, is crucial for mental health and protection against diseases.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. Wow, that's so amazing. And then serotonin. It's just so amazing how, you know, we often, I think just we so often think that the brain is doing one thing and the body's doing another thing and there's just not that much connection or the brain's just, you know, controlling everything. But it really is this constant feedback loop where, you know, the brain is... receiving instructions from the body and then doling out instructions of what to do next. It's just so powerful. And the more we learn about it, the more we learn that so much is driven by our health choices, how much we move, what we eat, how much we sleep. The basics. We know

SPEAKER_04:

they're important, but when you really find evidence of this, it's really amazing. And in another episode, we talked about the serotonin, tryptophan, melatonin pathway. Go back and refer to that if you want, but serotonin is usually higher in the morning. And so especially it's activated more, that hormone pathway is activated more if we get that natural light in our eyes.

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Before blue light,

SPEAKER_04:

right? Yeah, before screens and stuff. And then it's optimized. Those pathways are optimized if you get out in the middle of the day, like when the rays are the strongest. But that serotonin pool is what helps make the melatonin pool at night. It helps you sleep better or feel sleepy. Then while you're sleeping, tryptophan is made from that pool, which is an amino acid, but it's built from melatonin to help you continue sleeping and do different processes in your body. And then that tryptophan is turned into serotonin in the morning.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's a... powerful loop and a circle. And if you're leaving out one component like sleep or leaving out one component, like getting outside in the morning or in the midday, you're really, you can't like work your way back out of it. You're just, you're just missing those key ingredients to make that loop work. Yeah. So

SPEAKER_04:

powerful. So yeah, so that's a little bit about the gut-brain axis. And what's really interesting, this might be a whole other episode that we get into, but the vagus nerve we're finding is so important and so influential with how we feel and all these other side effects that there are vagal toning exercises that a lot of gastroenterologists recommend and health professionals recommend for stress, for if you're having... like GI responses to stress and, you know, mental health conditions and things like that, you can do these vagal toning exercises, which helps, you know, promote the effects of the vagus nerve. Um,

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not gonna lie. When I first heard about this, I was like, what? Because I had, I had a client who was, you know, she basically prescribed this vagus nerve stimulator and In your ear? No, it was like a little vibrating thing that she held up to her neck and she was supposed to do it, you know, once a day for maybe like two minutes or something like that. And when I first heard about this, you know, she told me also how much it costs to rent it. It was like$800 a month. Well, how long

SPEAKER_04:

ago is this?

SPEAKER_01:

Uh, probably like two years ago. And, um, It blew my mind. And I was, you know, I was a little bit of a skeptic on it. I'm not gonna lie.

SPEAKER_04:

It's a little woo woo. Like it does sound a little like, well, just put this in. Cause I've seen it for the ear too. Just put this vibrator up into your ear. It stimulates. So maybe it all around, you know, wherever your vagus nerve is going to kind of feel those vibrations, but it's super interesting. And

SPEAKER_01:

you were saying you can sing loud in the morning. Well, so

SPEAKER_04:

yeah. So anything that it'll positively affect that vagal tone. Um, so ear vibration, loud vocal sounds, laugh therapy. So people laughing, um, humming really loudly, singing loudly, and then gargling. I heard, I heard it was another one, which kind of makes sense. You're vibrating, um, guy gargling in the morning and then splashing cold water in your face in the morning can be helpful too. I heard, but any of that, there's a lot, you know, more evidence that needs to come from this, but it does help some people. So something to try and look up if you're, if you're interested, if you have any GI effects from stress and anxiety and things like that. Um,

SPEAKER_01:

So what do we need, you know, as far as fiber, you know, what is the recommendation for us?

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So recommendations, we do it a couple of different ways. Um, you could either say, you know, Oh, we need about 14 grams of fiber, total fiber. I'm talking soluble and insoluble. So just total fiber, 14 grams per a thousand calories of your diet. But what I prefer is female and male differences. Um, And often that's not enough. Like if someone's eating 1600 calories or that might not be enough fiber, but for females, 25 to 30 grams of fiber daily is the recommendation. And then for males, at least 38 grams of fiber

SPEAKER_01:

per day. Wow. So you need it with every meal.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you really do. And so that's why a lot of times I say, I know high protein is so big right now. And I, and I agree, like we do need more protein, but we also forget a lot of produce it's neglected. So if you can think about each of your meals, having protein plus produce, that's what I always talk about with patients, like whether it's fruit or vegetables. Hey, if you have eggs in the morning, add some veggies in there or add a side of fruit or Or get some produce in there somewhere. You make fun of me, but I have like my cottage cheese with my avocado and cherry tomatoes. Or... I

SPEAKER_01:

just make fun of you because that sounds gross to me.

SPEAKER_04:

Right. I know, but try it. It's good. Add some salt and pepper to that. Some people add a little olive oil to something like that. So protein and produce. So at least 38 grams for men per day, 25 to 30 grams for females a day. And as we, you know, I say 30 grams because we're finding with perimenopausal, postmenopausal women, around 30 grams of fiber is necessary. Wow. So that's how much fiber we need. So we also need a variety. And I know this is hard. Groceries are expensive. You don't want them to go bad. You don't want to get like 30 different types of vegetables at the grocery store each week. But every week maybe rotate your vegetables so that you're getting different types of plants. The more variety of plants you get, the more variety of strains you are feeding of bacteria in your gut. And I forgot to go over probiotics and prebiotics. So I talked about probiotics or the bacteria in our gut. Prebiotics are the food that are like fermentable fibers that feed our bacteria. So prebiotics are like the non-digestible carbohydrate sources. Probiotics are the bacteria, but that's where people take a supplement, but you can also add in probiotic foods. And that would include, you know, so every week you can think about having some probiotic foods in your grocery cart as well. And that would be like kefir or kefir. Have you seen that? That's a fermentable yogurt drink. You could do kimchi if you like that. You could do yogurts, especially like skier, Icelandic skier and Greek yogurt. But a lot of yogurts have probiotics in them.

SPEAKER_01:

People are crushing sauerkraut these days.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. But, you know, there's some even there's some pickles. No, but there's some even things like, like, you know, sauerkraut, you want to make sure it's not sitting on the shelf for too long, because then the probiotics could die. I mean, there's some, some fermented foods that have higher levels than others. But, you know, so so you want to make sure that some of those are in your cart as well, along with fiber sources. And

SPEAKER_01:

so alcohol kills them, right? So wine is Wine. Wine basically doesn't work, right? That's fermented, right?

SPEAKER_04:

Because that would be easy, right? Yeah, you know, it comes from grapes. It's fermented. So, yeah, so that's one thing we can do. The more... variety we have and if we're meeting our fiber needs like if you're tracking and and trying to meet your fiber needs that's a great first step and trying to do it mostly with whole foods you know there are a lot of things that add in fiber like bars protein bars and you know these um all these tortillas and breads and stuff. And that is getting you some fiber, but it is added. It's not like in the plant, you know, it's,

SPEAKER_01:

and we're not saying that's bad. Right. Cause I mean, I love those, um, carb balance tortillas and you do get like a nice vehicle for, you know, an egg sandwich without really hammering a ton of carbs in the morning, but you just want to have it, you know, you don't want that to be the only fiber that you're getting. Right. And what about, um, you know, cooked vegetables versus plain, like uncooked vegetables, because I've, I've heard that, you know, certain vegetables you need to cook or like carrots and things like that, you actually will absorb more nutrients for, um, certain cooked vegetables, but other vegetables, if you can, um, enjoy them just raw, you're going to get a little bit more fiber because you know, you're breaking down those cellular walls and everything.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. There's some bioavailability that comes, it's increased bioavailability of nutrients and fiber when you're cooking some vegetables like cruciferous vegetables as

SPEAKER_01:

well. Yeah. Cabbage I think was one.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. And then beans, of course you want those cooked. Yeah. I mean, you don't, and you want to make sure they're fully soaked because some people do have some distension, some bloating from eating beans that are not quite soaked enough and then not quite cooked enough. I

SPEAKER_01:

mean, Bennett will tell you that they're good for your heart, right? Beans are good for your heart and the more you eat.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So, um, so yes, I think protein and produce at every meal meet your fiber needs. Um, let's go through some secret additions for fiber, like some things, some top foods that I like recommending, um, that are more whole foods based that you can get more fiber and you may not know about. So obviously we know beans are high in fiber. Again, if you're trying to do a super low-carb diet, just know beans, it's great because you get fiber and you get protein. And I know they've got some carbs, but it's a great fiber source. It's a great protein. They usually have 7 to 10 grams of fiber per half a cup of beans. That goes a long way. If you're having half a cup of beans, you're getting a third of your protein. fiber needs or something for the day. You could, if you don't like eating plain beans, you could do like black bean dips. You could add chickpeas into salads or bowls like Mediterranean bowls, chilies and soups in the fall and winter. Great way to add in, you know, some beans, make a puree with it, get fancy. But other things that are a little bit less known perhaps are like avocado is a great fiber source. It is this mystery fruit, you know, because it's technically a fruit. but it's classified as a vegetable, I guess, but it's healthy fat. It's actually a really great fat source, but it also has about five grams of fiber per half a cup and artichoke hearts as well. So like if you like artichoke hearts, it's kind of random, but I know that they're using some good recipes and salads and stuff that has about five grams of fiber per half a cup. That's great. So all these little things on top of regular vegetables and fruits and stuff can add up fairly quickly to meet your, your goal for the day.

SPEAKER_01:

So that's spinach and artichoke. artichoke dip. Where does that, how can I work that more into my diet?

SPEAKER_04:

Yum. There's healthier versions of that for sure. That aren't like cream, all cream cheese based.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. You got one that, what did it, it was made of? It was

SPEAKER_04:

cottage cheese based. Yeah. There's all kinds of recipes, Greek yogurt, cottage cheese based, um, that you can make. And then there's other ones that are, yeah, just Greek yogurt based, which are great. So another thing I like to add in a lot, and I, recommend patients try at least is snacking on, you know, if you're craving something crunchy, don't go to the chips or whatever as much, but try like the dried edamame beans, the dried chickpeas, those offer fiber and protein, really good sources of fiber though. So if you do a half a cup of that or a serving, usually a serving is about an ounce or a third of a cup, that could get you a good like six grams of fiber right there. And then edamame pasta,

SPEAKER_00:

which we love. We love that.

SPEAKER_04:

If y'all haven't tried it, you need to go try some. It's in every grocery store now.

SPEAKER_01:

Y'all, that pasta has... 24 grams of protein per

SPEAKER_04:

serving. Mm-hmm. Per two ounces dry. It's crazy. That's a crazy amount of protein. And I think 13 to 14 grams of fiber. I think 14 because I tell people, hey, if you eat that serving. That's like lean chicken. That's like half of your, if you're a female, that's half of your fiber goal for the day. Mm-hmm. Also protein. It's exceptionally high in protein. So it's a great vegetarian meal to have. And you like it way better than the other protein, the other like bean pastas.

SPEAKER_01:

I like the edamame pasta. I think the best more than the, because we've tried the, the chickpea and also the black bean. I think that, I think the edamame. Yeah. And

SPEAKER_04:

lentil, red lentil. You definitely like it better. So definitely give that a try. If you haven't add edamame, like frozen edamame, um, beans into stir fries or make a cold bean salad out of them. That's a great way to add some fiber as well. And then thinking about your grains, um, Ancient grains tend to be a little higher in fiber than rice or some others. Like some of the highest percentage of grains that is fiber, like some of these that are exceptionally high, are like wheat bran, bulgur, barley, rice. If you can add in some of those grains, that's going to raise your fiber. It doesn't mean you have to do raisin bran or something, but maybe you do something different.

SPEAKER_01:

Your bran muffin.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah, you can make a bran muffin. You can add some to your baked goods. I mean, that's going to help. Um, adding flax and chia seeds, nuts and seeds like pumpkin seeds that has some protein that also has some fiber. It's not just a fat. So seeds and nuts also are a great source of fiber. So sprinkle those on the salads. Um, I love doing flax and chia seeds and smoothies and oatmeal and things for the kids like that. You know, bars.

SPEAKER_01:

Just check the mirror after lunch, right?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

The chia seeds. Oh God, this is the worst. Getting into your teeth. Um, uh, chia, um, pudding. I love making chia pudding. Mm-hmm. I haven't in a while. Have you ever tried

SPEAKER_01:

that? I don't think so. I don't think, no.

SPEAKER_04:

I think you'd like it. Yeah. Um, it's a weird texture, but I don't think you'd mind it. And so it gets kind of gelatinous if you will, but chia seed pudding, you just use two tablespoons of chia seeds, half a cup of a milk of some sort, and then add some sort of flavoring. So it's not necessarily high protein unless you add protein powder, but it's a great source of fiber, some healthy fats. Um, So those are some things that I love to tell patients. And then, you know, lots of vegetables and fruits. Obviously those are going to add more plants to your diet, more vitamins, more minerals, but also some fiber, particularly like berries, pears, apples. Those are going to be more of the higher fiber fruits.

SPEAKER_01:

And we shouldn't be afraid of fruit because honestly it's, in addition to having all that fiber, it's also incredibly low calorie.

SPEAKER_04:

It really is. When you chop it up, when you see a serving size of like, you know, chopped strawberries and it's like you get a cup and a quarter for 60 calories like that is still going to be, that's going to fill you up way more. Or maybe you pair it with a protein or a fat to actually stay full, but that's a lot of volume and a lot of hydration and for not many calories.

SPEAKER_01:

I get a huge energy bump too whenever I have fruit.

SPEAKER_04:

Yeah. So it's a great, um, and you know, I can eat like a 215 calorie protein bar in one second.

UNKNOWN:

Um,

SPEAKER_04:

But fruit, when you're eating a whole food, vegetables, fruits, it takes longer and it's way less calories. So consider that and pair it with a protein or a fat. Then you're getting your protein and your produce together.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, can you have too much fiber?

SPEAKER_04:

Yes. So you don't want to go crazy. You know, we see a lot of athletes at Chain Effect. Our performance dietitians work really closely with athletes, and some are needing for performance to consume 3,000, 4,000 calories.

UNKNOWN:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04:

if you did the 14 gram per a thousand calorie fiber recommendation, that is going to be way too much. But sometimes like if they're going, if they're tracking on apps or whatever, some apps will tell them they need a lot more. And we, we've have had patients who are, you know, eating really healthy but then they eat too much fiber, too much plants, too much whole grains, too much whatever and then their fiber is crazy high and they're like bloated all the time or they're having these adverse GI reactions. So you do want to be careful. That would be more like just monitor how you're feeling. If you feel super gassy, bloated, distended all the time, you might be eating a little too much and that would be great to talk to a dietician about to really evaluate You might be able to lower it or you might be able to choose some foods that are slightly lower fiber and still be really healthy for you. But a great tip is go low and slow. So if you feel like you are not eating enough fiber and you want to get up to those goals or you want to see how you can improve your gut microbiome, You want to go low and slow and build up. It's kind of like a muscle, like at the gym. You don't want to go straight to the heaviest weight you can do. Then you're going to be extra sore. You may not be doing your body any benefit. So go low and slow. Maybe add in a little bit of fiber the first week, and then the next week try to add a little bit more because you don't want to screw up your bowel movements. That's no fun.

SPEAKER_01:

Wow. And so if I want... to really understand, you know, not just fiber, but like the, the health of my microbiome, what can I do?

SPEAKER_04:

Well, the best way is really a stool study. And there are a few out there. I know a lot of functional medicine doctors will do these. Um, And cause they're, they're costly, right? Anything like that is going to be, it's not the norm unless there is a real medical reason for you to do them per a doctor and per your insurance company. They can run about 300 to$600, um, before insurance. And I'm not sure what would make an insurance company cover them, but the GI map one is one of the most popular. Um, so you could look up GI map stool test. It measures basically your gut microbiome. It measures the microbiota, um, It also looks for possible pathogens, viruses, and also helps identify digestion and absorption markers, inflammatory markers, so you can see how inflamed it may be, how you're digesting certain foods, how you're absorbing certain foods, and really see if you're... you know, bacteria is imbalanced or you need different strains. And that's where a provider like a functional medicine doctor or a GI doctor might give you recommendations for certain strains of probiotics to add in on a daily basis.

SPEAKER_01:

And I know you're not an expert on this, but do you know anything about like the transplant, like the stool transplant? I mean, right. I mean, that's real. Yeah. Oh, I thought it was, I thought it was person to person. Well,

SPEAKER_04:

they've done. Yeah. And there's been some studies like if also the only ones I know I've heard about more so is like transferring stool from an obese person to a non obese person. This has happened in rats too, or my studies. Um, and then vice versa. And it does change the person. Like if you, yeah. you know, if you transferred stool from, um, or my, the microbiome, whatever they transfer to, like from an obese person to a non obese person, that the person tends to gain weight and then vice versa.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_04:

So there is a huge impact on how your microbiome is, how healthy it is, how healthy it is, and then things that can contribute to obesity as well. And a lot of that has to do with hormone regulation or imbalance, inflammation, how your body is digesting food. There's just so much. It's so interesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So fiber, not just about poop. Right.

SPEAKER_04:

And you can improve it. So you can improve your gut microbiome. If you're nervous and you went on a bunch of rounds of antibiotics for something, just know you can always get it back. It'll slowly get better. It takes a lot of time. Kind of like if you take a probiotic supplement, you're like, I don't see any difference in my bowel movements. Well... First, look at all your complete diet, everything you're eating and consuming, but also it takes a few months, you know, or, or longer for your microbiome to change.

SPEAKER_01:

I love this. And once again, if you have any questions, obviously Caroline is an expert on this. So email Caroline, caroline at chain effect.us set up an appointment with one of our dietitians and we'll tell you all about it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04:

And we got to weed out that bad bacteria and get some good ones.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

All right. Well, thanks for listening. We'll catch you

SPEAKER_04:

later.

SPEAKER_02:

Catch you on the flip side.