The Chain Effect Podcast

Volumetric Eating

• Chain Effect

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Eat as much as I want!?! Yes, there is some truth in this if it's the right things. Could you eat 1lb of broccoli as easily as 1lb of french fries? In this episode we discuss the concept of volumetric eating, key swaps that might go undetected by your family/partner, and how to live more like a blue zoner. 

SPEAKER_00:

In this episode, we're going to talk about how you can eat as much as you want, some creative swaps that Caroline sneaks into our meals that I don't even notice, and how to be more of a blues owner.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to the Chain Effect Podcast, where a physical therapist and a dietitian married with two kids juggle the struggle of running a business, raising a family, and prioritizing our own health, all while trying to have as much fun as possible.

SPEAKER_00:

We're your hosts, Taylor Pope, doctor of physical therapy, and

SPEAKER_01:

Caroline Pope, registered dietitian.

SPEAKER_00:

Together, we own and operate a health facility, bringing together physical therapists, dietitians, personal trainers, and active recovery services to create what we call

SPEAKER_01:

the Chain Effect. Chain Effect. Today, we are going to talk about eating large volumes of food. Doesn't that sound nice?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I love eating a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

More specifically, volumetric eating. But before we get into that, there is a sad statistic that a lot of people know about. You may have heard about it, but we really need to think about this a little bit more. Only 1 in 10 Americans get enough vegetables and fruits. Wow. More specifically, in this 2015 study by the CDC, 9% of adults ate the recommended amount of vegetables. 12% of adults ate the recommended amount of fruit. So a little bit more fruit than vegetables. That's really sad.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's really low.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm guilty of it a lot too. I mean, even as a dietician, I probably don't every day get enough produce.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It's hard to have it around, right? Because you buy a ton of it and then it starts going bad. So it's almost like unless you're going to the store... Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's awesome.

SPEAKER_00:

It's been awesome so far. The winning Christmas gift. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So that was really cool. But we're mainly going to talk about low energy density foods that are high volume and high water content. Therefore, you can eat basically as much as you want, but you won't be able to because it's going to fill you up.

SPEAKER_00:

Does that also equal high fiber? Yes. Just like across the board?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for the most part.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm going to tell you, when I first heard about this volumetric eating thing, I was like, yeah, yeah, of course, it makes sense. But the more I thought about it, the more it really does kind of feel like the holy grail of weight management. Because if I'm spending my time eating produce, it just takes up so much room.

SPEAKER_01:

And time.

SPEAKER_00:

Right, yeah. That's like a gorilla, right? Like a gorilla only eats grass or vegetables and they just eat it all day long.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, let's see how long does it take if you counted it in seconds. how long you could stuff a handful of chips, which is probably a serving size, in your mouth compared to eating an apple. And here's

SPEAKER_00:

the thing. I call it inhaling chips. Right, getting

SPEAKER_01:

it from work. I mean, we're all guilty of it. But think about this. If you bulk up your meals with produce or your snacks, yes, a small to medium apple has sugar and carbs. It has a lot of other great stuff. But it probably fills you up more than 10 scoops tortilla chips. at half the calories. It's half the calories of a serving of 10 little tortilla

SPEAKER_00:

chips. You mean 10 chips, not 10 scoops of chips.

SPEAKER_01:

No, the little scooper chips.

SPEAKER_00:

Because when my hand goes into the chip bag, it scoops out a ton of chips. Do I count that as one scoop?

SPEAKER_01:

A scoop tortilla chip. So 10 of those is 110, 120 calories. A small to medium apple could be about 60 calories. You're going to feel a lot fuller. It's going to take you longer to eat, so you're going to recognize your fullness cues. There's a lot of great things on top of fiber, antioxidants, vitamins, minerals, hydration. So there's a lot of different meals and snack options which we'll go over that... can bulk up your diet with less calories. And this isn't all about taking away. This podcast is not all about calorie restriction for weight loss. We know everyone has different goals, but we've just got to realize how calorie dense many things are that do not satisfy us as much after a few minutes, but also that could be impeding our goals or our progress.

SPEAKER_00:

But can we also acknowledge the fact that it's like 70% or 75% of Americans are overweight? So shouldn't we somewhat always be kind of talking about weight management, even if we're not talking about weight loss? Because I'm not, you know, I'm always trying to, I might not be trying to drop my weight, but I might be trying to drop my body fat and increase muscle.

SPEAKER_01:

And you can, we could all benefit from adding more. produce in. And so a lot of this volumetric eating is adding more produce or non-starchy produce, vegetables and fruits, and thinking about what's more satisfying, what's going to fill up my stomach. In nutrition counseling, we love talking about the idea of adding instead of taking away. So reframing it. So maybe we are talking about lower calorie intake, but that doesn't necessarily mean we don't want it to be a negative term. So we like thinking about goals with our patients that are what could we add in? So that could be water, that could be produce, which is a great one, fiber, just the idea of fiber in itself through lots of different food sources, because then it becomes more of a positive change instead of thinking about, oh, I just have to get rid of this, get rid of this, get rid of this. But by adding more of these things in, ultimately don't have room or the cravings as much for other foods that are way more calorie dense.

SPEAKER_00:

I will tell you that is a huge misconception about nutrition counseling as a whole in that people just think, I don't want to be told what I can't eat. Yeah. It's just, you know, across the board, like I don't, you know, I like food. I, you know, I want to eat food and all this stuff. And people just think you're going to tell them don't eat as much and you're going to be hungry. But what you're saying is it's the opposite. You can eat until you're full. And you're not going to be having the same things, but you're going to eat until you're full. And we want you to eat until you're

SPEAKER_01:

full. We don't want you to be deprived.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell us about some foods that are not really volumetric in this way. Better more calorie dense. Exactly. Tell us about some foods like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, if you think about... First off, if you think about eating out or fast food or really bread-heavy, high-fat things that's not healthy fats, not like avocado or nuts or something that we might want to enjoy and that are healthy for us in certain amounts. But fast food, if you look at the nutrition, which every chain has their nutrition information out there, and it's a big... thing in the US, especially a lot of people are grabbing fast food or just processed foods, things that you can pick up easily and eat. If you look at the calories on a lot of those things, it is so much for such little food you're getting. And that's why a lot of things are surprising. Or if you go to a coffee shop and get a cookie or a muffin, oh my gosh, what about a muffin? Something like that. That's a great example. You might go to a coffee shop and there's a muffin there. It

SPEAKER_00:

seems like a nice snack.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, like, oh, I'll have this with my coffee. Yes, I mean, it sounds good to me too, but it could be 500 calories. A big cookie could be 430 calories. It depends on the place, but most places do have, unless it's a little tiny shop, they're going to have their nutrition information out there. How long does it take you to eat that cookie or that muffin? Muffin might be a little bit slower, but you can eat a cookie in like five bites, six bites, really quickly. Boom. That's 450 calories gone.

SPEAKER_00:

I can eat a fast food burger and probably like four bites.

SPEAKER_01:

And you look at those, they're so small. I mean, and the bun is part of that. The fat is part of that. And the thing about calories is in calorie density is we've talked about this before, but of the macronutrients, we have fat, protein, carbohydrates. Fat is nine calories per gram. Protein is four calories per gram. Carbohydrates are four calories per gram. How much more is fat? That's a lot more.

SPEAKER_00:

Over double.

SPEAKER_01:

Over double. So because of the fat that they're adding to fast food, a lot of this not so good fat too, like the oils and stuff that are not as great that we shouldn't be consuming in that amount, they're adding that to the bun. So the bun might be more carby than maybe when you get it at the store, but they look small, right? So it could be all the fat they're adding to cook it. The meat is not going to be lean. It's going

SPEAKER_00:

to be the cheapest option.

SPEAKER_01:

It's going to be a lot more saturated fat, the not so healthy fat we should be getting for our heart health. And the calories are just adding up so much because of the added fat. So that's a lot of the reason why, even if it's like, this is small, it shouldn't be many calories. If you look at it, it's going to be a lot for how filling it is.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And that gets into that whole, and I hadn't even really heard this term, but this hyper palatable foods, right? Exactly. And the way that food is, And that's sort of been in the news a little bit lately, but food has been hyper palatable, ultra processed in a way that doesn't exist in nature. And our bodies cannot, our like mind cannot stop ourself from over consuming it. We don't even know. We don't even know that we're doing

SPEAKER_01:

it. The fat, sugar, salt. And this brings us to French fries. We're talking about fast foods, hyper palatable foods. If you look at the numbers... So one pound of potatoes, just regular potatoes, is about 318 calories. Could we eat a pound of potatoes? Maybe. That sounds like a lot. You'd probably fill up. But it's 318 calories. Not crazy. It sounds like a lot, but not crazy. You probably wouldn't be able to eat all that. 120 grams of French fries is about the same amount of calories, 312 calories. So that's about 100 grams. But... To get to a pound of that, to compare it to the potatoes, it'd be roughly four times the amount. So it would be a lot of calories. It'd be 1,200 calories, 300 times four. 1,200 calories for that pound of French fries versus 318 for that pound of potatoes. And that is because of what they're adding, hyperpalatable, the oil, the salt, they're cooking

SPEAKER_00:

it down, down, down, down, down. Cutting it small and then you have a lot of surface area for the oil to attach. whatever they're getting to, you know, make it crispy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You can think about a chopped salad in that way. Not that they're always bad. That could be really good. But if you chop it, chop it, chop it, chop it, you're, you're making it more and more dense, which with vegetables, it may not be as high calorie, but depending on what goes on that, how much dressing is in it, a chopped salad, boom, boom, we're cutting, cutting, cutting it finer, finer, any foods like that you cook down, it's going to be more dense. So, you know, think about that the next time you're eating French fries. I mean, You know, we want to limit it. We eat fries sometimes, but you do want to think about that comparison. Well, it's vegetables, it's potatoes, but what else are they adding that's making it four times the amount of calories?

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And we're not saying don't eat the muffin. We're just saying know what the muffin is and know how it fits into your overall nutrition plan. You probably shouldn't have the muffin every day, but on the weekend you want to have a muffin, eat the muffin. Eat a donut. You just

SPEAKER_01:

have to be aware. And we all deserve to be aware of what we're eating and we deserve to know what we're eating. And luckily, most of the information is out there these days. So the more you're aware, the more informed you are and you can make more informed choices.

SPEAKER_00:

So what are some foods that we can incorporate or how should we be thinking about this volumetric style eating?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So... The idea is non-starchy or lower starch fruits and vegetables is going to be, you know, the biggest bang for your buck. There are some lower carb and lower calorie alternatives for other types of foods. But when I say low starch, that would mean, you know, the starchy vegetables would be like our potatoes or Um, but on squash, um, you know, and then of course like rice and all that, but those aren't, those aren't vegetables, but our grains, those are pretty starchy. But when we think about non starchy vegetables, that is basically anything but beans or peas, potatoes, sweet potatoes, um, And corn. Those are all our starchy vegetables. Basically anything else. And butternut squash wasn't in there because that's kind of an in-between. It is lower calorie.

SPEAKER_00:

I was shocked at how much butternut squash I could have in a serving for how little calories it is. And also how much it kind of resembles eating a potato in a way. I

SPEAKER_01:

mean, it's a little sweeter. It's a little different. Well, compared to a sweet potato, it's very similar to a sweet potato. So I always encourage... people to sub in, like, okay, you're making a soup. Instead of sweet potato, could you add in, this is one example, add in sweet potato instead. You mean butternut squash? I mean, sorry, yeah. Sweet potato, instead of that, add in butternut squash. You're going to cut down on your carbohydrates and your calories because it's kind of a mid-starch vegetable. Those autumnal squash are more like a mid-starch. But so basically, if we think about it, for... Half a cup, let's say we're using half a cup measurement across the board, half a cup of potatoes, sweet potatoes, corn, peas, beans, that's about 80 calories. For half a cup of a non-starchy vegetable, which is basically anything else, that would be about 25 calories.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, my gosh.

SPEAKER_01:

So over three times the amount for our starchy vegetables versus our non-starchy vegetables.

UNKNOWN:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And if you look online, look for a list of non-starchy vegetables versus starchy vegetables, that would be a great thing to have in your kitchen or something just so you can remember, oh, wow, what a difference.

SPEAKER_00:

And just a question, is the fiber also some sort of multiple, like as the starchiness goes down, does the fiber go up?

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Not always. Um, for sometimes it could be different content. Like maybe there's more water in certain vegetables, maybe not necessarily, but

SPEAKER_00:

like celery might not have quite as much fiber as broccoli and cucumbers, even though it's like lower. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Yeah. But you could, you could look that stuff up. There's a really cool USDA has a database, um, the U S department of agriculture, and you can get a lot of information on there, like putting in different fruits and vegetables and it gives you all the measurements, how much water is in each vegetable. whatever you type in, how much energy, how much protein, how much fat, how much carbs. And so that's a really cool resource if anyone wants to look at that. But, yeah, so that's kind of the idea. And then fruits, you can get a portion of fruit, which is more like 15 grams of carb we talk about is around, of our fruits is about 60 calories, and that's about, you know, A small apple, a small pear. It's different depending on the fruit. A smaller banana. You know, depending on the berry, it could be three quarters

SPEAKER_00:

to a cup of berries. You can't get small bananas anymore. They are so big at the store. I know. Looking for a small... They're ginormous. Because who wants these giant bananas unless you're splitting it with someone? But they're all enormous.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. So that's the trick. I mean, a large banana, like we usually see in the store, is probably double the serving or the, you know, what we go by these exchanges, but about 30 grams of carb versus 15. But fruit, a lot of people are scared of fruit and it is... One, it's filling because it has so much hydration, fiber, more depending on the fruit. But it satisfies that sweet tooth too. And it can. If you force yourself, if you get in the habit of actually choosing fruit over the dessert you want, that sweetness should satisfy your sweet tooth. Although it's hard to make that decision in the moment sometimes. But some examples are, you know, if you... eat a pound of watermelon because it has so much water in it, a little less fiber than some fruits because of that, but a pound in the summer. And some people probably do this and I don't know, you don't want to have the runs or anything, but it's, um, after eating so much watermelon, but a pound is only 135 calories.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

And six grams of sugar. So actually, it's not that much sugar. And a lot of people are scared of, oh, I don't want too much fruit. But think of all the benefits as

SPEAKER_00:

well

SPEAKER_01:

of

SPEAKER_00:

fruit. Well, one of the things that I think I was considering when we were talking about this is volumetric eating is on one level, it's filling yourself up with these low-calorie foods. But what you don't always appreciate is just how nutrient dense these foods are at the same time. So not only are you getting, and like we talked about in the other podcast, you're getting, or the fiber gut biome podcast, you're getting the volume of food. So you get full, then you're getting tons more nutrients, but you're also getting a lot of that fiber, which fuels and feeds your gut biome. Yeah. Your microbiome. And then... Turns

SPEAKER_01:

that into other great things. Right. Like short chain fatty acids that we need. And yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And hydration, right? So you're getting a little bit more hydration with your food as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And we're in such a state of... protein protein protein everybody's about protein and we've talked about this as well it's we definitely our needs are higher than we ever thought before and it's helpful for a lot of people but if you're an athlete recreational or you're a weightlifter or anyone trying to get more protein or build muscle you also need the micronutrients to build that muscle

SPEAKER_00:

and you need the carbs

SPEAKER_01:

and to repair tissue and to and the carbs to replenish and so that's how you and to recover and that's you need it all so protein and pro Again, I've said this before in different episodes. Like I love, you know, talking about with clients, like add it, make sure every meal has protein and produce or even every snack protein and produce.

SPEAKER_00:

And getting the, getting your carbs from produce means that you're not going to have that same blood sugar spike, right? Because you do have, you know, how the length of time that it takes to process carbs. That food is just going to be longer. So you're not going to have those, you know, not only the blood sugar spikes, but also just how you feel like that quick hit and then tanking

SPEAKER_01:

afterwards. Right. at larger amounts, it does have a little protein in it. Now it's hard to add that to your meal. Like if you're just having, you know, a few florets of broccoli, let's say like, oh, it's not really, that's kind of negligible. Like that's not really going to add up your protein, but throughout the day it does add up. So a pound of broccoli, again, this is another stat. That's really cool. A pound of broccoli is only 154 calories. Now, are you going to eat that? you'd probably get a stomach, you might get kind of gassy, you might get a stomachache, you might be way too full, but that pound has 13 grams of protein.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That's like that, that stat I remember hearing where it's like a pound of French or no, it's like 1500 calories of French fries will make you gain just the same amount of weight as 1500 calories of broccoli, right? But if you like, like how much broccoli would that be? It's like, it's like a table full of broccoli,

SPEAKER_01:

a plate of fries versus a table of broccoli. Are you going to be able to eat all that? Probably not. So it helps with fullness. Yeah. But that's, I mean, that's true. Like you just can't, you just can't eat as much produce, but I'm saying throughout the day, as you added more fruits and vegetables, yeah, they, it can contribute to your protein a little bit here, but also your fiber for sure. And some good, healthy carbs.

UNKNOWN:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And, you know, sort of as we're talking about this, you know, it's funny. I was, I was kind of being a jerk to my patient the other day and they were talking about making a meal and, you know, having a bunch of vegetables and they were chopping the vegetables and then cooking the vegetables. And I was like, so you're processing them. Like, no, you know, just, just cooking them. And I was like, yeah, you're processing them down. You're like cooking them down, breaking down the cell wall. So, you know, I guess as we're thinking about this too, as the, you know, the volume of is going to be different based on whether it's cooked or raw, right? You

SPEAKER_01:

can't eat more when it's cooked. But for some vegetables, nutrients are released. It's more bioavailable when you cook them. So some raw vegetables... Um, it depends on one. There's a lot of nutrition science, um, behind this, but there, some nutrients are more bioavailable when you cook them down. So it's good to have a variety. You know, I wouldn't just do raw vegetables, although it's easier for, you know, at times like throw some extra veggies in your lunch, like you've been doing in your lunchbox, like some raw carrots. I'm

SPEAKER_00:

so proud of myself. I'm so proud of myself. I like a whole

SPEAKER_01:

cucumber,

SPEAKER_00:

take pictures of my lunch when I just put like a carrot in there and then, you know, three little peppers and then

SPEAKER_01:

cucumber. And And that's an easy thing for lunch. But then for breakfast and dinner, it might be easier to throw some veggies in your eggs or saute some spinach on the side or, you know, you make fun of me sometimes adding my cherry tomatoes to my cottage cheese or having a side of if I have if I have extra bag of spinach or like leftover spinach that's about to go bad. I'll saute some spinach on the side and throw that next to my eggs and just any way you can get that produce in. helps your body get the nutrients it needs, but also it's bulking up your breakfast. And dinner is obviously a little bit easier. But the raw stuff, you want to have a mix of raw cooked. And really, an adult fist, they do vary slightly, but we think about that as like a cup. So a good rule of thumb is you could think about having one to three fifths of produce, non-starchy vegetables and fruits at every meal.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow.

SPEAKER_01:

So three times a day, one to three. That's a big range depending on your size, your appetite, whether it's cooked

SPEAKER_00:

or raw. But a good goal, right?

SPEAKER_01:

But a really great goal.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like nine fifths a day.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Yeah, for you, it might be three at every meal, which is kind of a lot. But for someone else, it could be a little less. But that can really help you get up to your actual intake goal of vegetables and fruits.

SPEAKER_00:

And make you have awesome poop, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, it's definitely going to help with that. And that's also why I might not do all raw vegetables because it does help you process, you know, sometimes when it's cooked down a little bit. But yeah, cooking down stuff like a stir fry, a great stir fry with a bunch of vegetables in it, soups. That's why I love soups because you can add a lot of produce in there and it cooks down and it's easier to eat, but you're getting a lot of great stuff in there that's filling you up too.

SPEAKER_00:

I was surprised looking at you know, the calories of beans and peas and things like that. I was surprised, you know, I always thought they would be a little bit more calorie dense, but surprisingly low calories for the, I guess it's because there's not a lot of fat, right? It's just,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

it's basically protein and carb.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I mean, when you're doing, yeah, when you're doing more of this produce, even though that's considered more of a starchy vegetable, most of the time it's going to be low fat and it's, And having a plant-based diet does include obviously, not that you need to be vegetarian, but having more of a plant-forward diet or a plant-centric diet does have room for nuts and seeds and avocado, and those have some fats in them. But typically you're not getting as much fat because produce is so low in fat generally.

SPEAKER_00:

And

SPEAKER_01:

so to put kind of some guidelines on there, so we talked about, One to three-fifths per meal of produce, non-starchy vegetables and fruits at each meal for an adult. Adult women need about, this is a rough estimate, it's different, you know, depending on your goals and your health, you know, history, of course, your size, but adult women need about 100 pounds. one and a half cups of fruit and two and a half cups of vegetables each day. Men need about two cups of fruit and about three and a half cups of vegetables each day. That's like a general guideline. You could probably, you could do more though.

SPEAKER_00:

And it'd be great. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, when you say need, that's like the minimum, like that's what you need.

SPEAKER_01:

Those are the recommendations.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yes. You should probably get more than that.

SPEAKER_01:

And if you want to live a long, healthy life, like these blue zone areas, they are very plant centric.

UNKNOWN:

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, tell us about that.

SPEAKER_01:

The Blue Zones, you've heard about them, right? And they're different regions in the world that have been studied.

SPEAKER_00:

It's all the places I want to go. I know,

SPEAKER_01:

right? But they're all these... the traditional places are like, there's a place in Italy on the Mediterranean, Okinawa, Okinawa is a little tiny Island off of Japan. And those are the centenarians that live, you know, the average is like living over a hundred. We might've talked about

SPEAKER_00:

the four on here.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, and, um, And

SPEAKER_00:

they can all squat like down to the ground. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

But

SPEAKER_01:

they're thin. They're little, but they're working people. They're fishermen and they're active and eat mostly a plant-based diet with seafood. Mediterranean diet is a blue zone diet. Greece is one of the blue zones. There's a place in Greece, so Italy, Greece. And they have been researched because they are some of the world's longest lived and happiest populations. Yeah. And so they've studied their diets and everything else. But when it comes down to it, their diets are very plant-centric, like mostly plants.

SPEAKER_00:

And they're probably happy. And some seafood. Yeah. They're probably happy because they're social. They're moving around. They're not living a life of disease for the most part because they're, you know, you don't make it that long with a bunch of chronic diseases.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. You don't have all the fast food, processed foods and, you know. That's what's so hard, I think, is our food industry. It makes it really hard and how ultra-processed we make everything, even stuff that shouldn't be.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, I was listening to that New York Times podcast. The Daily was talking about ultra-processed food, and it was talking about how at some point the tobacco, I didn't even know this, but the tobacco companies bought up a bunch of like the bigger food companies and started altering... Remember

SPEAKER_01:

what time? Like what decade? I

SPEAKER_00:

think it was like the 90s. It was like when tobacco started to like go down or there started to be more and more like, yeah, cigarettes are definitely bad. There needs to be warning labels. Well, then they started to sort of diversify their business and started buying up some of the bigger... And I don't want to... I feel like it was like Nabisco and maybe General Mills, but I don't want to say, but that's when we started getting, you know, these ultra processed, hyper palatable foods. And it became much more of just what's available in the store. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01:

More sugar, more salt.

SPEAKER_00:

And just replacing sugar with, high fructose corn syrup, right? It was like, it was always sweet. The real sugar cane goes away and then high fructose. Then it's super sweet. And then it's super, super sweet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And then we don't even recognize anymore what natural sugars are. And that's why if we go back to the basics, that's typically the good rule of thumb. Going back to the basics, have more fruit, you might be satisfied with the sweet. Then when you have one of these ultra processed sugary cereals, you're going to be like, oh my gosh, this is so sweet. Wow, I don't need this.

SPEAKER_00:

And it might take a little while to retrain your palate. but it's worth it, right? Like give yourself the time to, you know, see what a, see what a cherry tastes like. Oh, a strawberry actually tastes like this instead of what strawberry flavor is, you know? Right. Yeah. So,

SPEAKER_01:

yeah. Well, let's, let's, that brings us to some good examples like of, um, substitutions or swaps you could make to have more volumetric eating and eat more without worrying about your portions

SPEAKER_00:

of it. You love your swaps.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I love my swaps.

SPEAKER_00:

You love your swaps. Yogurt for sour cream? Love it. I'm on board.

SPEAKER_01:

He used to not.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm on board.

SPEAKER_01:

He used to not. He'd be like, sour cream. This is not sour cream. Yeah, it's a little tangier. It's a little tangier. And then have you noticed I've gone... Sometimes I do whole... Whole Greek yogurt. I started with that. And now I've been getting the nonfat Greek yogurt and still swapping.

SPEAKER_00:

I did not even notice that. Oh, great. Saves us calories. You're taking it out. I just never take that out of the fridge. And then my cheese, right? You just like start getting the reduced fat cheese on me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. But they can, you know, they make it so it can, if you get into the habits of these swaps or these more volumetric eating tendencies, it does take the burden off of you to like, worry about your portions. If you are a big eater, if you have a big appetite, if you are hungry, if you work out a lot and you're like, this is not enough food for me. Like you sometimes feel like I am so hungry and you're an active person. You don't have to worry so much about, measuring or looking at labels or whatever, it's like, well, first off, it doesn't have a lot of labels if it's more produce, but you can eat more. So an example would be like I talked about earlier, soups, like maybe you swap out sweet potato some for butternut squash or an even lower calorie version would be radishes in for potatoes, like in a stew. It sounds weird because they're a little bitter, you know, they're a little like peppery tasting raw, but when you cook them down, they're the same consistency almost as potatoes. So if you put, you can buy a bag of whole radishes throw them in a stewed meat like stew or something like that or um or maybe a recipe where you'd usually put potatoes and carrots and stuff so if you're trying to do less calories or less starches or less carbohydrates radishes in for potatoes um cauliflower rice is a big

SPEAKER_00:

one oh yeah

SPEAKER_01:

you know that got popular i don't know how many years ago now 10 years ago maybe eight years and i still love it i think it's great if you don't you know I don't like eating it plain, but if it's the base for rice, like in a burrito bowl, a stir fry, I think it's great. You know, where there's some flavorings and there's some sauces or marinades or something. Um, cause it's kind of bland on its own, but there's so many cauliflower substitutes for potato, like mashed potatoes, cauliflower rice for rice. And then, um, Paul Meaney, you know, it's technically more processed, but it is from a palm tree. So it's, it's from a palm tree. So it is plant-based. That is so low calorie for a pasta substitute and it's great. And you've liked that. It's not your favorite.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, it's good. It's good. I do. It's a

SPEAKER_01:

good substitute.

SPEAKER_00:

I do like the, I think the edamame pasta more. Cause it's just, it's such high protein for what you get and fiber. And so does that count? I mean, that would count as the volumetric, right? Because it's

SPEAKER_01:

like, you wouldn't be able to eat as much as regular pasta. So in that way it could, it's about the same calories versus four as regular pasta, like, like two ounces of dry at a mommy pasta is about the same calories actually as regular white pasta, but you're able to eat, you're probably going to, be able to eat less of the edamame pasta because it's so high in protein and fiber.

SPEAKER_00:

Isn't it like 24 grams of protein for 100 calories, though? It's something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, for like 2 ounces of dry, I think, and 13 grams of fiber.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is crazy. It's like 2.4 to 1 there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so it is great, and it's a great way to do it and eat less calories overall, probably, if you want a pasta meal. Some other ideas, though, for snacks could be You know, take out the chips and the crackers when you're doing dips and stuff and opt for like carrot chips in a ranch dressing or a Greek yogurt ranch dressing instead of regular chips in a sour cream dressing or like dip, something like that. Celery with peanut butter if you like doing... Crackers and peanut butter, maybe you try celery. It's so crunchy, and it's not quite the same. None of these are the same, but they're a great thing to add into the rotation to save calories, and you can eat as much as you want. So if you make a big veggie platter before dinner, like if the kids are starving, sometimes we'll do this, or if you just find yourself, you're waiting for, let's say... When they're like, snacks! Give me snacks! I want snacks! Yeah, you're waiting for your spouse to get home from work, and you want to eat dinner with them, and you're starving, maybe you just... jump on some like non starchy vegetables.

SPEAKER_00:

But the good thing about that too is like you can quit that. You can just eat some of that and you can walk away from it. Yeah. Like if I have a bag of chips open, I'm not walking away until that bag of chips is maybe I'll save a little bit in there just so I don't hate myself. But like, yeah. It's hard to walk away from

SPEAKER_01:

those scoops. People do like roll-ups, like meat and cheese roll-ups instead of wraps, just kind of taking off the wrap. But there are a lot of creative things you can do to sub in for crackers and chips and stuff. And your dietician can help you with more ideas because there's a lot. And overall, it's going to help you with your calorie goals day to day.

SPEAKER_00:

But I think the big take home is you can eat a ton of produce. It's very low calorie. And it's very high nutrient. And it's just missing from most of our diets. And so when you're planning your lunch, I mean, I'm guilty of this too, you know, grab the leftover, grab the leftover burrito bowl. And I just have this, you know, this little Tupperware, you know, brick of burrito bowl with rice and beans and chicken. Well, put some other veggies in alongside of it. Make it

SPEAKER_01:

colorful.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, exactly. Like put some other stuff in your lunchbox so that you're not just... having you know just last night's leftovers you're having also some veggies you're having some you know carrot you know those things last a long time too in the fridge carrots last a long time those little those little bell peppers yeah last a long time those cucumbers do not last a long time yeah i don't know what's up with those like they are slimy within like just a few days but

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. But there's a lot and you can, there's different ways of storing stuff in the fridge to make it last longer too. So removing all the moisture with a paper towel, keeping a paper towel in the bag that can help. Um, having a salad before dinner, you know, that kind of older way of doing it like that, that is a great way to do volumetric eating

SPEAKER_00:

or a salad with your lunch. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Kind of bring it back to the basics. But yeah, Yeah. Well, I hope this was informative and you learned some stuff. You learned about some swaps. If you want any more nutritional guidance or if you have any questions, feel free to email me at caroline at chaineffects.us.

SPEAKER_00:

And if you found one thing in this that is super helpful or you know somebody that could benefit from listening to this podcast who just needs to eat more volume of produce, text it to them. That would really help us out.

SPEAKER_01:

I guarantee if only one in 10 of us are eating enough, then I guarantee most of the people, you know, could benefit from a little bit more produce. Thanks for listening. We'll check on the flip

SPEAKER_00:

side.