The Chain Effect Podcast

Fat Checking Dietary Fat

• Chain Effect

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In this episode we dive into dietary fats, misconceptions, benefits, and what the new science is telling us. 

UNKNOWN:

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00:

Welcome

SPEAKER_01:

to the Chain Effect podcast, where a physical therapist and a dietitian married with two kids juggle the struggle of running a business, raising a family, and prioritizing our own health, all while trying to have as much fun as possible.

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We're your hosts, Taylor Pope, doctor of physical therapy, and Caroline Pope, registered

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dietitian.

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Together, we own and operate a health facility, bringing together physical therapists, dietitians, personal trainers, and active recovery services to create what we call the Chain Effect. Caroline, you got a little sass, a little sass in your voice today. Is it because of the topic that we have to talk about? You're excited?

SPEAKER_01:

Maybe. We're talking about one of our macronutrients today, all about fat.

SPEAKER_00:

We're going to do some fat checking.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Because there's a lot that's confused. There's a lot of misinformation out there. There's a lot of scares around fat. There's a lot of good to be had with fat because we need fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I You know, I'm going to be honest. I think I pretty much grew up thinking that eating fat was bad for you.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, that was the, you grew up in the 80s and 90s.

SPEAKER_00:

I didn't ask you to age me. I just said I grew up thinking that fat was bad for me. But you're right. Going back, the

SPEAKER_01:

fat-free craze of the 80s and 90s. I remember, I mean, Snackwell's was the thing that I think about. All the fat-free everything, fat-free salad dressings, fat-free, that was the marketing.

SPEAKER_00:

Eat fat to get fat, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and we You know that fat intake does not equal gaining body fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, now we know that.

SPEAKER_01:

Now we know that.

SPEAKER_00:

But you know what's crazy is I did a little research on that fat craze, and the major influencers for that was the American Heart Association. And then, of course, all the brands jumped on. Oh,

SPEAKER_01:

then they're like, oh, great. We'll just take the fat out and add sugar.

SPEAKER_00:

And

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then, oh, and then guess what happened? With the increase in carbs and processed carbs and added sugars, And now we're trying to get away from that. And now we're adding artificial everything to everything.

SPEAKER_00:

But if you think about it, it makes sense though. What's cheaper? Sugar has to be cheaper than, than like putting the fat. Yeah. I would imagine sugar cane. They probably made a ton of money on that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So they're like, Oh, it's fat free, but you'll see what's surprising is marketing. There's still a lot of brands that'll say, it'll say fat free on there. Right. Like it's a good thing. I mean, yeah, it's good if it's not a saturated fat about for you, but yeah, I mean some of the major influencers because we were, they were trying to, um, you know, help cholesterol levels and reduce dietary fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Seeing the cardiovascular disease going up. They were like, we got to do something. It must be the fat.

SPEAKER_01:

But now we know a lot about the different types of fat and what they do. So yes, fat does not equate to gaining body fat. There's a lot more to that. A lot of it's calorie balance, nutrient density, your metabolic function, of course, has a lot of factors there. But, um, You know, you can if you're eating a ton of fat, right? you could have a calorie surplus because fat is actually nine calories per gram compared to the other two macronutrients. Carbs and protein are only four calories per gram. So it is over double the amount of calories per gram, if you think about that. And so if you are in a total surplus due to lots of factors, maybe you're eating a lot of fat and that's contributing, maybe you could gain fat, but there's a lot involved. So fat does not equal fat necessarily.

SPEAKER_00:

It's easy to rack up. What you're saying is it's easy to rack up the calories if you're eating a lot of

SPEAKER_01:

fat. It is,

SPEAKER_00:

and that's- That's more of the reason.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And portion control is important with fats, but if it's healthy fats are so much good.

SPEAKER_00:

Because we've been talking a lot, you know, in our discussions about glucose, blood glucose and things like that. And fat from everything I've learned from you is the least likely or the least percentage of your, of the fat that you eat is going to contribute to blood glucose.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. If you look at curves like, like blood glucose graphs and you'll see, you know, how much carbs could raise your blood sugar. and then protein, about 58% of that can be converted into glucose. Fat is hardly at all. And so it doesn't really create much of a curve. It's a very slight rolling hill, I would call it, or maybe not much at all, depending on how much you have, what your portion is. And so it's a really great thing for blood sugar stabilization and energy, and it gives you that long energy. That's why I'm always talking to the kids about that long energy. Well, let's have some nuts for some fat and protein. Of course, there's a lot of combos. the foods. So, you know, there's so many foods that have several macronutrients in one, especially protein and fat go together, you know, a lot. And so some of that could be converted into glucose because of the protein, but the fat really helps stabilize your blood sugar and therefore keep you more full for longer. And that's why when you have a lot of fatty foods, like not so good fats when you're out, if you eat a lot of fatty foods, you could feel sick because you're just so full. It's too much. It's taken a lot longer to digest. And that's where we get that feeling.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I guess to be clear too, you know, since you brought up energy, we're not suggesting that right before you work out that you go eat a bunch of fat because that's going to contribute to your workout. Yeah. That's the time to probably have definitely more, you know, like minimally processed carbs and things like that. Right. Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

So that would be the biggest, one of the biggest recommendations talking about a pre-workout snack, or if you're having a meal, you you know, soon prior to a workout, you want to minimize the fat. So you can have a little bit like a slather of peanut butter on a slice of toast or on an apple, but you don't want to have three tablespoons of peanut butter or a couple of handfuls of nuts or half an avocado right before going into a workout because it is the longest digest. It's the slowest to be digested and it keeps you full for longer. So it's not passing through that stomach as quickly. So you're just not going to feel your best. You might feel a little sluggish. I guess, during your workout.

SPEAKER_00:

Your belly's working hard, diverting that blood flow to the, to the stomach to try to, you know, to try to. And

SPEAKER_01:

alternatively though, it can aid weight management because it can keep us more full. So that's where, you know, in the eighties and nineties, I'm wondering, you know, I wasn't there for long during that time, but, um, I'm so young, I'm so young and vibrant, but I'm wondering now I was an adult during that time for sure. So I'm wondering if during that time, everything was fat free, people were, Ooh, pounding the carbs without even knowing it, pounding the sugar. And it's like, did people snack way more? Were they so hungry all day? Because carbs are very quick digesting. Like, I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

are you asking me? Cause I was only, I was only an adult for the last couple of years of the nineties. Okay. So I was around, but you know, and I was really picky growing up. So I, you know, I was eating grilled

SPEAKER_01:

cheeses. And nuts and avocados definitely weren't as big, but like those weren't like snack choices. So even if people were doing the high sugar stuff, I don't think they also were doing healthy fat snacks like that, like as popular as they are right now.

SPEAKER_00:

Sometimes I wonder what the produce section used to look like, like late seventies, early eighties, you know, was it all just cause our, certainly our supply chains weren't as well developed as they, as they are now where we're getting, you know, all this random crazy fruit and you know, you can have stuff that's out of season all year long. It had to be much more, you know, just like local regional season, which is smaller now what we're, you know, there's sections of the produce section that are trying to get back to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And smaller markets and stuff. So let's start talking about breakdown fat. There's lots of different types of fat under the dietary fat category. So what we ingest as fat is there's so many different types and a lot, you know, people are scared of different types. We're don't know about the different types. So let's break those down a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Basically like ribeye fat and avocado fat.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes. Bacon, all that. So we know that, like I said, fat has the highest calorie density. It's nine calories per gram compared to four calories per gram in carbohydrates and protein sources. Of course, a lot of foods are a combination. But fat has so many important functions. So when we go super fat-free or or super low fat diets, we are really missing a lot of stuff that can help our body. So one we talked about, it promotes fullness, slows digestion, crucial for blood sugar regulation and reducing spikes after meals. But some other things that not everyone might know is it supports cellular structure. So what do we have in our body? We have cells that help with everything. Fat forms an essential part of the membranes, the cell membranes. It helps the functionality. It helps cells to communicate. and have those metabolic processes, hormone processes. It helps with hormone production. So cholesterol, which is a type of fat, is a key building block for essential hormones, such as our sex hormones, our estrogen, our testosterone, progesterone, cortisol, critical for reproductive health, metabolism, and stress response. So actually there's a lot of dieticians and functional medicine doctors now helping with fertility and more hormone, like they call themselves more hormone providers because we have all of these diseases or troubles with hormones and we're trying to get to the bottom of them these days.

SPEAKER_00:

Fertility. But

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fertility can be so common and so that's why eating more fat is actually helpful for fertility. And so that's one of the reasons why because it has a big hand in hormone production. It also helps with absorbing certain nutrients. So if you are trying to be healthy and get all these vitamins and minerals, There are fat-soluble vitamins, ADEK, you can think about that, ADEC or ADEK, that need fat to actually be absorbed. So you could be eating all these plants and doing all these things, trying to get those vitamins, but you're not going to really be absorbing them as much if you're not getting fat in your diet. And we know those vitamins are super helpful for bone health and immune function, blood clotting, all that stuff. And then another function is some of the fatty acids, like omega-3s, specifically are super, super important for brain health, mood regulation, the integrity of nerve cell membranes. So we know we think about like heart health and brain health. Like if you hear about omega-3s being good for brain health and heart health, that is why. So, you know, we'll get into those different types of omega-3s and omega-6s in a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Tell me, okay, this might sound dumb, but what is the difference between unsaturated fat and saturated fat?

SPEAKER_01:

Great question. So if you think about your butter, you know how some people leave... I love butter. Yes, that's why I said your butter. Some people leave that out sitting on the counter. We've always kept it in the fridge, but you can sit it out because it stays solid at room temperature. That's a saturated fat. Fats that are solid at room temperature. So that's found in animal products and tropical oils, so like coconut, if you have a... in a coconut oil or a jar of coconut oil. It's solid.

SPEAKER_00:

Is that a saturated fat? Yes, it is. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes, it is 80 to 90% of saturated fat. And we'll get to that in a second. But it's solid at room temperature. Unsaturated fats are generally liquid at room temperature. They're more beneficial for heart health. A lot of our unsaturated fats, we call them, we group them into unsaturated and saturated, but a lot of times they have a little little bit of both. Like the mainly, the primarily unsaturated fats would be olive oil, avocado, nuts, seeds, fatty fish like our salmon, our mackerel, sardines, shrimp have a little bit, and then some plant-based oils, canola oil, the seed oil, sunflower oil, safflower oil. If you look at the labels though, a lot of them do have a couple grams of saturated fat, but they are primarily an unsaturated fat. So it's not black or white, just like... Right. Most things, right? lead to some poor heart health.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, so a follow-up question. You may not know this, but saturation. Like what is that actually referring to? Unsaturated versus saturated fats. Is it how closely the molecules are to each other? Like how dense they are in like a tablespoon of fat? Or like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it actually goes down to the structure. So what makes it clumpy and saturated, like clumpy, solid, waxy substances, they clump together, they're not spreadable, is actually they're characterized by their hydrocarbon chains, having only single bonds between the carbon atoms. So if you think about your chain and there's carbons off of it with single bonds so that they can clump together, they can move together instead of double bonds.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you can't see this, but I'm nodding my head. But at the same time, I'm thinking, ah, chemistry, so long ago.

SPEAKER_01:

I know. And then unsaturated fats, on the other hand, that are more liquid at room temperature, have at least one double bond in their hydrocarbon chain. So it does get down to the actual molecular structure.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So in unsaturated fats, let's break that down even more into what a lot of us have heard about monounsaturated versus polyunsaturated fats. This goes down to the bonds as well.

SPEAKER_00:

These are the good for you ones, right?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So it's unsaturated fats. So we're talking better for you. Is there

SPEAKER_00:

like one that's the best, mono versus poly? Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, it's hard to say. It's all about amounts that you have in your diet because monounsaturated fats are really healthy. That's what we think about, like avocados and almonds and olive oil. We want to cook with our olive oil. But our polyunsaturated fats is what omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids are. So those are super important as well. But our monounsaturated fats are characterized by having a single double bond in their structure. So again, it's getting down nitty-gritty. Like if you're drawing it out, mono, one single bond. or one double bond, and then polyunsaturated fats have multiple double bonds in their structure. And so polyunsaturated fats are also essential fats, so our bodies cannot produce them naturally. But there are benefits to both. You just want to be careful about the amounts. So with polyunsaturated fats, That is the omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids. And this can be really confusing. You always hear a big push for omega-3s. One's good, one's bad, right? Yeah, you always hear about omega-3s, big push for that. Oh, you want to get more omega-3 fatty acids into your diet. They help with inflammation. They help with brain and heart health. They're in our salmon. They're in sardines, which, by the way, our son ate a can of sardines yesterday with a fork. He made me

SPEAKER_00:

so mad. He's like, Daddy, I want to have sardines. And I'm like... There's no way at 3.30 in the afternoon you want to have sardines. I want to try one. I want to

SPEAKER_01:

try

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one. We're sitting outside, and he comes out, and he's got the tab ripped off. So, of course, now I'm thinking that I'm going to have to eat this entire can of sardines. And I'm like, all right, you opened it. You're going to eat it. And we sat there, and he just chomped it down. And he's like, oh, I like it. It's good. I like sardines. I thought they'd be bigger, da-da-da-da-da, you know?

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm like, okay, well. Well, maybe he did. I mean, it seems like he genuinely liked it. He does like

SPEAKER_00:

fish. He does like fish. You know what's funny? He likes fish that's not cooked. He doesn't like cooked salmon, but he likes raw salmon. He doesn't like cooked tuna. He likes sushi tuna. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

That's funny. So maybe sardines.

SPEAKER_00:

But sardines are smoked. I mean, it's like lots of them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know if I'll eat it again anytime soon, but at least he did. He got some good omega-3 fatty

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acids. He asked us, he said, does it taste like beef? Because I said,

SPEAKER_01:

because I prefaced it with, I don't know if you're going to like sardines, dude. Like that is the one food that I really want. I like everything. And that's one food I just can't really eat. And he's like, does it taste like beets? He hates beets. But anyways, sardines fall. They are very cheap. Speaking of cheap and very nutritious canned food that's shelf stable, sardines, tuna, you know, and canned salmon even. We don't even think about getting canned salmon, but you can make salmon patties, salmon cakes, salmon balls. There's all sorts of recipes.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, but sardines also have the added benefit of being low in mercury, right? Because they're sort of at the bottom of the food chain. Yeah. And so like, you know, if you're thinking about one sustainability to, you know, may eating a lot of fish in your diet, but keeping the mercury levels down, sardines are a great option.

SPEAKER_01:

Great thing to keep in your back pocket and

SPEAKER_00:

the back of the pantry to Portugal. These sardines are like a foot long, right? You weren't ready. You weren't ready for that. You know, we used to sardines like coming out of the can and they're like little tiny things. They brought me my

SPEAKER_01:

platter and it was three huge fish staring me in the face. And I do not like whole fish. And maybe that's why I

SPEAKER_00:

don't like sardines. And you thought it was going to be these little tiny things. Gigantic.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm cool. I'm hip. Yeah. Well, and not to mention the stores, the sardine stores were like candy stores over there. They look, they have like a big Ferris wheel with cans on, on each seat on the outside, all these bright colors. colors and the kids think it's like a candy shop like oh let's go in there we're like y'all it's just cans of sardines but they're really fancy and all different from all different years and places and all that stuff but so those those fish are examples of omega-3 fatty acids are high in omega-3 fatty acids to break it down further and to confuse you maybe a little bit more omega-3s have three different types of them so EPA and DHA you've probably heard of those those are two different types of omega-3 fatty acids very healthy Those are primarily found in fish oil, salmon, sardines, a little bit on tuna. ALA is a third type, and that's primarily a plant form of omega-3, which is not as efficiently converted to EPA and DHA, which actually helps reduce inflammation in the body. So ALA is still healthy. It's still an omega-3 fatty acid, but that is more in flax seeds, chia seeds, walnuts, things like that, plant-based. We want to get more omega-3s in our diet. and especially the EPA and DHA. And that's why a lot of people take supplements because it's hard to get them without eating fish. So if you don't eat a lot of fish, if, you know, if, uh, prices is an issue or maybe get some canned fish or you just don't like fish, you don't want to eat fish. A lot of people, that's why it's helpful for those people to take a fish oil supplement. And you know, they even have vegan fish oil supplements, which is interesting. It comes from the algae. Well, it comes from the algae. They call it vegan, but it comes from the EPA and DHAs and the algae from the water. And so they do have vegan supplements where you can get that if you're vegan. So those are the three different types of omega-3s, but they do help reduce inflammation, support brain and heart health. So getting those in whenever you can is super helpful. When we move to the omega-6 fatty acids, those are important as well for cellular health and inflammation, and they help with our immune response. So they help with inflammation as well. However, However, and this is where it's a little different, excessive omega-6 intake, especially in the ratio in relation to omega-3. So if you have a super high ratio omega-6 to omega-3, that can actually overstimulate the production of pro-inflammatory compounds, which can actually tip the balance towards chronic inflammation. So it's good in our body. We have an inflammation system, and you know all about this in short term, like if we are getting hurt or we cut our hair. ourselves or whatever that's that's that response well if you on a regular basis get way more omega-6 and it's like an inverse ratio of what we want way more omega-6 to omega-3s that can actually tip it over to chronic inflammation

SPEAKER_00:

yeah I think that's such a big misconception is that we're used to thinking about inflammation as something that's always bad instead of thinking about it as a natural reparative process acute is very

SPEAKER_01:

important acute inflammation Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And we want to, you know, have that because that's going to be, you know, coming in, cleaning out whatever's injured or dysfunctional. And then we want to, but we want to have it quick. We want to get it in there, fix it and then get out of there. And yeah, I hear exactly what you're saying with that.

SPEAKER_01:

And so what's happened is a lot of, especially fast food, processed foods, frozen foods, they will use a lot of these, you know, vegetable oils and we'll get into seed oils next that have more of the omega-6 fatty acids. So I think, you know, a lot of times the general population, typical modern diets skew closer to a 15-1 ratio. So that'd be omega-6 to omega-3, which promotes inflammation. And we want the ideal balance of omega-6 to omega-3 is about four to one or lower. So often because of more of our processed food diet, fast foods, frozen foods that add a lot of these vegetable oils, and we are actually prone to much higher mega sixes.

SPEAKER_00:

Wow. So what I tell, and we also know that like, there's so many, like the carbohydrates that, you know, because of those foods being hyper processed, they're much higher and, you know, minimally, uh, complex carbohydrates. So there's spike in your blood glucose, which is also pro inflammatory. So you're really creating like a big problem. Yeah. And if you're

SPEAKER_01:

storing the fat in your visceral section, then you have more, those cells and your visceral fat, those fat cells are more 4

SPEAKER_00:

to 1. That is, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

You're right. So you don't want, you want to be careful. And as a dietician, I think most of us will say like, don't avoid omega-6 fatty acids. That's not what we want to do because they're important in their own way, but just promote more omega-3s. So that's why DHA, EPA, ALA, those omega-3s are so important. Fish, the Mediterranean, more of the Mediterranean diet. Got to eat more fish. Got to eat more fish or a fish oil supplement.

SPEAKER_00:

It's so easy. You like think you're being, healthy, having fish like, Oh, I have salmon like once a week or, you know, you know, fish a couple of times a week, but you got to find ways to like sneak it in more.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. I think just getting creative. And that's why I look into recipes, talking to a dietician. You can think about more creative ways to get in seafood in general. And you might, yeah. Cause the way you grew up having it just may not be good. Maybe it was one way, maybe it was boiled or just sauteed or whatever baked with no flavor. Like there's so many things you can do. Um, but yeah, so omega six fatty acids get kind of a bad rep. And so do these, these seed oils or these, um, you know, um, vegetable oil, soybean oil, corn oil, sunflower, they're cheaper. And that's why they're added to a lot of processed foods and fast food places use them to fry things. And, and so that's, that's one of the reasons why we're getting a lot more in our diet.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And so you can't fry your fish and, and vegetable oil and think that That you're getting the proper ratio.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, yeah. You might be getting a lot more of those omega-6s. But, you know, recent online wellness trends have been so demonizing against seed oil. So there has been a lot of articles out there, usually not written by health professionals or researchers or dieticians or doctors, but they're demonizing these seed oils, canola, soybean, sunflower. And I've had patients like, hey, I saw this article. I'm going to stop. I'm going to avoid all seed oils. Like, they're promoting inflammation. They're not good for me. Um, they're super processed. And while a lot of them could be more processed or refined oils, which creates some oxidation, um, and you're, you're getting some of that, they, you know, you don't need to avoid them completely. Um, and they are not inherently bad for us. You know, they're not, you don't need to cut them out. Um, that seed oils are made by pressing the seeds to draw out the oils. And so So if you stop right there, that's like a cold pressed oil, like extra virgin olive oil or something like that, which is beneficial in a lot of different compounds. But it's prone to smoking and degradation when it's cooked at high heat. So a lot of these can't be heated very high. They don't have a high smoke point without burning.

SPEAKER_00:

So wait, that's interesting because I've always thought it was just like a convenience to have something that had a higher smoke point. could cook it at a higher temperature. But I never really thought about the fact that I'm kind of destroying the molecules in it by, you know, heating olive oil too high or something like that.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, well, it's linked to oxidation, which oxidates like, it's kind of like if you really get nitpicky and trying to lower, limit like oxidation in your foods, because that can lead to health issues or some more inflammation, which could lead to cancer and different diseases, you want to be careful of the charring on your food. You want to be careful of not eating a lot of super cooked foods that are blackened all the time. I'm talking all the time. Super charred, super blackened because that's oxidation.

SPEAKER_00:

She's staring at me because she knows how I like my ribeyes with the Pittsburgh style. That's not often. You

SPEAKER_01:

just don't want to burn your foods all the time. And that's why there's so many different ways of cooking vegetables, for instance, where you kind of want to cycle through them. Like steaming is is really awesome. Blanching is awesome. It's water. You're not burning. You're not like, you know, charring them at the top. You're not always roasting vegetables.

SPEAKER_00:

Also, I feel like certain foods like, like broccoli, it's just better steamed in my opinion, you know, cause you try to cook it on the, on the stove top and it's just, by the time it's cooked enough to eat, it's inevitably like got a bunch of charring on it.

SPEAKER_01:

Like you said. Well, and so, um, the seed oils are, and there's some other ones that I Maybe I didn't mention safflower, grapeseed, rice bran oils, all those different types. They're mainly composed of unsaturated fats. So it is not better to eat all butter and saturated fats, lard and things like that, than these seed oils. It is still much healthier. But again, you want to think about the ratio because they're mainly composed of omega-6 fatty acids and they're lower in those omega-3 fatty acids. So you do want to think about that. but you don't want to cut them out completely. So they're not ruining our health. There's a lot of different things. If you really want to reduce your consumption of them, you can reduce ultra-processed foods, frozen foods, limit eating out, things like that. Fried foods. But you don't want to replace them with butter, lard, things like that. That is not going to be a mistake. But moderate consumption of them, even the high-heat cooking with a little bit of oxidation moderate consumption is okay. It's where there's excessive consumption, just like anything. Excessive consumption of even a good thing can be bad.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't have the coffee cup anymore, by the way. The what? When we first met, I would keep like a coffee cup on the side of the stove that had the bacon grease in there, and you just like take a little spoon of it. Oh, my gosh. Don't even talk to me. That's so gross to me. That's gone. That was years ago. Yeah. We've moved on. We've moved on. I'm

SPEAKER_01:

cringing thinking about that, using that. Oh, gosh. So instead, always offering a positive solution to this or what you could focus on instead of just get rid of this, get rid of this. Emphasize on consuming less processed oils. So our main oils that we cook with at home, because we should be cooking more at home, should be olive oil, avocado oil, or sprays. things like that. And if you really want to get less processed, choose the extra virgin olive oil. That's the best, um, cold pressed. If it says cold pressed, if it says extra virgin olive oil, that would be the best type of olive oil to choose and cook with

SPEAKER_00:

cold pressed by little toddler feet, you know, just standing on there, just, just lightly, lightly pressing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And cold press means without heat, right? So you're not, you're not potentially causing that.

SPEAKER_00:

What was that? We got that recently. I bought that olive oil that was, there was a cooking oil and then there was a separate one that was like a finishing product.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah. I wonder what that might be for more dressings, marinades, things like that. Um, I mean,

SPEAKER_00:

it could just be cheap. Like what is a little bit cheaper. Yeah. I mean,

SPEAKER_01:

they are, they, it's tons of different levels and you'll see the pricing differs because of that, but you want the extra virgin olive oil because it retains its natural ox, um, antioxidants and vitamins. The more you process the olives, they're lost during the more they're lost. So the extra virgin olive oil means one press. If you're getting like, like more of a refined olive oil, like a light olive oil or something like that. They keep pressing it over time. So you're losing, every time you're doing a press to the olive, you're losing more of the antioxidants and vitamins, which makes it, you know, more healthy when it has that. So it is a little bit more expensive. They do come in a dark bottle too, because they're, you know, they don't, they can get like rancid with a lot

SPEAKER_00:

of light.

SPEAKER_01:

Don't

SPEAKER_00:

they degrade by, yeah, light like degrades them. So

SPEAKER_01:

you want like a dark bottled one to get the real stuff. But olive oil doesn't have as high of a smoke point. So really, that's why avocado comes into play for things like sauteing, stir frying. That's a really good choice because it has a much higher smoke point, which means it won't burn as easily. You can cook it at higher temperatures and it's a really nice mild flavor for those. Again, it can be more expensive, but I love the avocado oil sprays or getting your own little sprayer and using it that way. So avocado oil and extra virgin olive oil would be great ones to cook with at home. And then you're not getting as much of the processed stuff and you're getting more of the omega-3 fatty acids versus the omega-6 and they are mostly unsaturated versus saturated.

SPEAKER_00:

Which you had mentioned that coconut oil and I feel like there was a craze where everybody was trying to cook everything with coconut oil and I was like, this is it. This is like the greatest stuff. It's got to be good for you. It's from a plant.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, first off, yeah, it is plant-based. It's very confusing. It is plant-based. based it's got kind of a different flavor so you can't use it on a lot of stuff but it has gotten very popular over the past few years and especially because of a lot of uses like people use it on their skin people use it in their mouth to clean their teeth I forget what that's called pulling or something where you can clean your teeth it like takes off I did it for a little bit and actually it like you put a tablespoon in your mouth and hold it in your mouth for a certain number of minutes in the morning and then you spit it out and your teeth feel so clean and all You're like, you're a bad breath and you're, I don't know. I don't know the specifics of it, but that got really popular. And then the bulletproof coffee or the MCT oil in the coffee and that kind of stirred up, you know, for ketogenic diets or fat intermittent fasting. And so

SPEAKER_00:

there was an NFL player that was like sort of made famous by putting mayonnaise in his coffee.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh God.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It was like, this guy's hardcore. He's putting mayonnaise in his coffee.

SPEAKER_01:

I just feel like when that clump up into tiny little

SPEAKER_00:

I have no idea. But like people were putting butter in their coffee. Yeah. That's like the bulletproof.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. That's a bulletproof.

SPEAKER_00:

I tried that. It's not good. I'm sorry. It's half and half. I'm sorry. Half. I'm sorry. Half and half. I'm just going to, that's the

SPEAKER_01:

particular about our half and half. And it's only a splash. And

SPEAKER_00:

I looked, it's only one, one gram of carb or one gram of a carbohydrate, I think. Um, per

SPEAKER_01:

serving saturated fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh, I think it's one gram.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And a little bit of fat from the, from the cream, but it is, less fat than doing heavy cream or something like

SPEAKER_00:

that. And so what I've noticed from the CGM is that that does not spike my blood sugar. So I can have that in my... Because you're

SPEAKER_01:

not doing much.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And I can have it in my coffee, low carb, and then I'm not getting a spike.

SPEAKER_01:

So coconut oil, let's talk about the facts around coconut oil. It is 100% fat, 80 to 90% of which is saturated fat, which I said earlier. So it is a saturated fat. So from the American Heart Association's point of view, they came out with a statement a few years back that said, We do not recommend a big amount of coconut oil. It is a saturated fat. It can, and there's many studies that show it, raise LDL cholesterol, which is our bad cholesterol.

SPEAKER_00:

Hopefully they've learned the American Heart Association is a little bit more on top of things now,

SPEAKER_01:

though. Yeah, I mean, but we do know that it is a saturated fat. You don't want to replace all of your unsaturated fats with coconut oil. And you can't really cook, you can't use it for everything because it doesn't have a high It

SPEAKER_00:

does do pretty good with fish, I've noticed. It gives you that tropical flavor a little bit.

SPEAKER_01:

The American Heart Association's statement was based on a review of seven controlled trials where coconut oil was found to raise harmful LDL cholesterol levels. And then they advised for those who are at risk for heart disease, no more than 6% of your total calories from saturated fat. Well, this is where it's hard. We were talking about this the other night. Typically, you want If you're not at extreme risk of heart disease, you still want your saturated fat for the day to be about 10% or less of your total calories, not grams, but of 10% of your total calories. So if you're on a 2,000-calorie diet, you'd want 200 calories or less coming from saturated fat. So that's where a tracker can help you figure that out, like MyFitnessPal or something.

SPEAKER_00:

Which is 50 grams of, right? Is it 50? Oh, wait, no.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, 200 calories.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, 200. Yeah. Divided by nine. Divided by nine.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh-oh. Whatever that

SPEAKER_00:

is.

SPEAKER_01:

So,

SPEAKER_00:

but think about this. Roughly a little over 20 grams.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. So one tablespoon of coconut oil. comes close to that at about 12 grams of saturated fat. So you just want to be mindful because a lot of people may not, especially females, may not be doing 2,000 calories a day. Maybe their goal is 1,800 or 1,700 or 1,600. Maybe it's more, but you just want to be mindful because it is a saturated fat. If you're putting a tablespoon in your coffee or doing other things with it a lot, that's really going to add up. But the reason why there's confusion about coconut oil or what came into what a lot of wellness gurus were promoting and brands were promoting is talking about the medium chain triglycerides, MCT. That's where the MCT oil comes in. But most of these claims refer to research that is a special formulation of coconut oil made of 100% medium chain triglycerides, not the jars that you buy that's most available on the grocery store shelves. So 100% MCT oil is different than maybe a jar of coconut oil that you would buy that's more refined, processed a little bit. But the reason why this got confusing is because MCTs have a shorter chemical structure than other fats, so they're quickly absorbed and used by the body. That was why if you're doing intermittent fasting, you could add MCT oil, your body's going to use it right away. Or maybe you go work out and your body's going to use that. After digestion, they travel to the liver where they are immediately used for So the theory was that it helps promote satiety and prevents fat storage. So it's like, it's, it's a little different.

SPEAKER_00:

I wonder if that would be good, you know, cause I'm going to have coffee before I work out. But sometimes if you're like drinking coffee on the way to a workout, you know, it can be, can make you feel a little bit, not great. Cause you know, you got the half and half in there. I wonder if maybe some MCT oil would feel better during the workout. Be a good, good experiment.

SPEAKER_01:

But it is a saturated fat.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So if we're worried about your cholesterol levels, we may just like anything, maybe a little bit here and there, but maybe not every day. Karen,

SPEAKER_00:

it's been on me about my saturated fats. If you can't tell where we've been having this discussion, um, by the way, I have to give our dietician some props because, um, I was having this discussion and it was either about this or it was about like what percentage of your like converting calories, uh, from different macronutrients. And my patients were just on it. They were like, Oh, car. Carbs, four calories per gram. Fat, oh, nine. And they were like doing these calculations in my head. You

SPEAKER_01:

mean your patients that were seen? Yeah,

SPEAKER_00:

that have been seen. That have been seen our dieticians. Our dieticians. Yeah, they're getting in their

SPEAKER_01:

head.

SPEAKER_00:

Right on it. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01:

But so coconut oil contains this acid. It's mostly lauric acid, which is not a medium-chain triglyceride. So this is where you want to be careful. Lauric acid is absorbed more slowly and metabolized like other long-chain fatty acids. To summarize... Unless you have a specifically formulated MCT oil, most of our coconut oil has lark acid in it, which is not an MCT. And it's absorbed more slowly and metabolized like other long-chain fatty acids, so the health benefits would not be the same. And just remember, it is a saturated fat. 80% to 90% of coconut oils that you're going to buy on the shelves is going to be a saturated fat. So also... A lot of the studies that they've done is the groups of people that include coconut as part of their native diets having low cardiovascular disease, like if they're promoting coconut oil, oh, you know, the people that eat more coconut have lower cardiovascular diseases. It's important to note that many other characteristics of their lifestyle could help explain that, but also they're not eating processed coconut oil. They might be eating the whole coconut as coconut meat or coconut coconut cream. It's not a processed coconut oil that's sitting on a shelf that's refined. So, and they might also be eating less sugar and processed foods. So you always want to look at the research. What's, you know, think about the other factors that could be contributing. And in my opinion, I treat, I treat coconut oil similar to butter. Like let's limit it. You can have it. It might taste good in certain meals and you might want some to get some of the benefits, but maybe use it more on your face and in your teeth and in your, you know, Things like that instead.

SPEAKER_00:

These people probably aren't living in America, so they're probably eating less.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, less overall. So to conclude, dietary fat is essential and very beneficial when consumed thoughtfully. And it is an important part of our diet. Sometimes it's hard to get enough fat for a lot of people, enough healthy fats. So you may need to aim, depending on your diet currently, you may need to aim for more omega-3s, more healthy fats in general, You might want to switch out the types of oils you cook with or the types of fats you cook with at home. And that's where a dietician can come in.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but don't be scared of fat. Don't be scared of eating fat. And I think that this is a topic that we really want to expand on a little bit more as we go and talk about some of the things we've been learning about insulin sensitivity, insulin resistance, and really sort of digging deep into that because you know those diets are you know comprised of a bigger percentage of dietary fat as part of your diet and you know understanding the difference between saturated fat unsaturated fat and which fats are the healthiest for you for given things is really important so I think that that that really was a deep dive and you know I didn't know half of that stuff before you know going in so

SPEAKER_01:

yeah it's complicated so and that's why you just don't want to read a headline on some wellness article or from a magazine or whatever and say, oh, I should add more of that into my diet. Or, oh yeah, I'm getting rid of that. So you need the deeper dives or to meet with a professional and talk through your diet if you're concerned.

SPEAKER_00:

So if you found this helpful at all, please do us a favor and text it to someone. That's the best way for us to spread the word about our podcast and for us to get some more listeners. And if you have any questions, please email Caroline at chain effect.com and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_01:

Catch you later. Thanks for

SPEAKER_00:

listening.