What If The Order Of Eating Could Change Everything?

In this episode we discuss the order of eating, its connection to absorption, weight management, insulin sensitivity and best practices.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Today we are talking about a topic near and dear to my heart that is another microhabit, a little change people can make consistently that doesn't get rid of all the food they love, but does it in a way where it's provides a lot more benefits for their body and their goals? And that is the order of eating or the plate method or food sequencing, whatever you want to call it. And we're gonna get into the weeds about this because it's something we talk about a lot.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I always thought the plate method, isn't that like my hand is this big and like I'm supposed to be able to do that? Oh, yeah, like a fist of this and like two handfuls of veggies.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

I guess you could call the plate method. Yeah, like the the my plate omiss like, you know, half of it is vegetables. So it's more of order of eating, food sequencing, and why it makes a huge difference to order foods in a specific way. Now, this doesn't always work well with like a combination meal, right? Like a dump meal or a big casserole or certain meals like that. But if you eat kind of like we do, more plainly, or you know, your meat, your vegetable, your starch if you have one, or your salad, your cruciferous vegetable, your fish, your beans. You know, you can even in bowl type meals, you can do this if you're layering and you can pick around it. Do you have you ever known anyone that eats one thing at a time, like fully? You know how some people are like that?

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Uh I definitely used to be like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:27

Oh, when you were a kid?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yeah, just I like things kind of separated, not blending together. And then, yeah, just eat up one thing and then eat the next thing. And then later on, I think I still kind of do that a lot where I like to save something, you know, kind of for the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah. But well, I do I love saving like if we have like a chickpea mac and cheese or something.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

I do love saving that for the end because I'm like, oh, this is and I know I also kind of know that I'll maybe just like house it if I start with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Well, that's exactly why this order of eating works. So if we have something even more indulgent or something that doesn't align with our goals to have all the time, like chips, you know, yeah, like you know, different things. Yeah, you might want to save those for the end. So, uh, but I was just thinking about the people that eat one thing at a time. I know some adults are like that, and it could be beneficial if you're doing it in the right order. But we want to think about our stomach as a funnel. And so we're gonna refer to that today. Like if you think about it, I mean it is kind of like this. It's like a sack, kind of like a, you know, sack. It's a funnel. But how we layer foods and how we order, you know, how we the types of ways we eat at a meal can make a huge difference, even if we're not measuring, or even if we're not counting calories, or even if we are eating things that we don't always, you know, or we shouldn't always eat. Um, so you want to think about how you're eating at meals. And I think this is super important. Like you said, like if you're having chips or you know, dessert even or bread or something like that, saving that for the end, number one, is huge for weight loss or weight maintenance. Like, because if you eat a bunch of bread.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

I'm just thinking of granddad right now who like gets ice cream to start the meal. He's like, I'm gonna have dessert to start. Well, like he starts with ice cream.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Then how can anything taste good after? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:25

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 3:25

So that's the thing too. Like for weight loss, if you have goals, one reason it's helpful. Yeah. If you have goals, I have to eat more protein, I gotta get more vegetables in. You really want to try to eat that stuff first because ultimately, if you start, is what I always tell my clients like if it's a Thanksgiving buffet out of family members and you put the mac and cheese and the mashed potatoes and the rolls and all that stuff on your plate, and it looks so good. If you start with that and get that taste in your mouth, how are you gonna want to go to the green beans next or the salad or the dry or the um, you know, there that's one thing. Right. The taste buds. Your taste buds are not gonna want to go. So, like eating dessert at the beginning, how could you want to go back to your vegetable, your broccoli?

SPEAKER_01 4:08

You know what's funny is like since you're bringing this up, I'm thinking back to my time at Sullivan's, which I'll tell y'all. I have a recurring nightmare.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

It happened Which is a steakhouse here that's still open.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Steakhouse that's here. My recurring nightmare is that I'm back waiting tables at Sullivan's, and sometimes I'm actually like having fun in my dream.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

But didn't you have one the other night?

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:31

Again.

SPEAKER_01 4:32

Yeah, I did. And I was in my dream, I was explaining to my co-workers that I also was a business owner, but I was just kind of doing this on the side, and I was like, man, I must look like a really unsuccessful business owner in my dream. I'm like having it because it's fun. I'm just doing this because it's fun. Make a little cash. My recurring like nightmare is that I go to the back and then I come back to the table and I and I don't have the item that I was supposed to bring, and then I'm like, oh, yeah, I forgot it. It's right in the back. I'll go back and get it. I go to the back, come back out, I still don't have it. And it's just the like growing, increasing look of disappointment on on my customer's face and like my frustration with like not bringing it. Oh, it's and it happens all the time. But thinking back to Sullivans, they used to think they used to have this like knockout martini that they wanted every table to start with. And it was pineapple juice mixed with vodka. It was really good, it was like infused for whatever length of time. But what they would always say is that starting them off with that would make them eat more.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Like they would order more. And it, you know, now that we know a little bit more about blood sugar and metabolism, I'm guessing that blood sugar spikes up super fast, insulin comes, drops it down super quick, and like right then, here I come ready to take your order, and you're ordering the whole menu.

SPEAKER_00 5:58

Well, I think there's a couple things going on. I think the sweetness probably too gives like a dopamine hit from that sugar rush, and then you're like, oh, I want more. Like, I want another dopamine rush because you can sip that drink back pretty fast if it's sweet. And then you're gonna eat more bread, probably. Let's talk about the bread coming out at these restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Um, so you might have the drink, then you might need the bread, and both of those things, yeah, are spiking your blood sugar and then dropping. Because usually it's not like a whole wheat, crusty, high fiber bread. Like usually it's like a white white loaf. Did you house that stuff when you worked there?

SPEAKER_01 6:32

I mean, I'm sure. Yes, we have lots of bread, lots of little bread rolls. I don't know how like I was younger when I was there.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

I I did too when I worked at that Italian restaurant.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

I didn't have any money, so I just like went there and ate my meal.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

Yeah, I did uh yeah, same thing when I worked at the Italian restaurant uh in college and undergrad. The rolls, like I remember just eating those rolls, like I was more skinny fat than probably. Yeah, yeah. We weren't quite as muscular. But uh, but so you know, you think about restaurants. Let's talk about restaurants. They bring out the bread, there's a purpose to that. They want you to spend more, they want you to order more drinks. Oh, I'm eating this bread. Oh, I know now I want some red wine. Now I want some white wine while I'm enjoying this. Oh, I'm having this butter, this super savory butter with it, if they have that. And so it's you know, the blood sugar response is that's probably part of it. And then the dopamine, and then it just leaves you, yeah, open for more choices, like, oh, let me just have all this stuff.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

Because you start digesting bread almost like right away, right? Yeah. How does that work?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

So if you think about like a piece of white bread, almost I I compare it to like cotton candy, I know it's not quite as airy as that, but if you a white piece of bread has a super high, like a hundred glycemic index. So the GI glycemic index that we talk about is how quickly your blood sugar rises, um, how how fast it rises. And so white bread is about a hundred. So if you tear off a piece and let that sit in your on your tongue, it will start to digest and kind of like um break down on your tongue, kind of like cotton candy. Not that extreme, but it does. Same thing with a potato chip. So think about potato chips.

SPEAKER_01 8:13

What's doing that?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So it's one, it's breaking down into glucose very quickly. And there's uh in our sal in our in our salivary, there's salivary amylases in our saliva. So that's what's really starting that. There's amylases, which are enzyme, um, they're enzymes that break down amylose, which is, you know, carbohydrate, it's in the bread and the potato chips. It's a type of carbohydrate. So that's starting to break down part of that chip, part of that bread, even in our tongue and in our mouth. And so that's in the saliva, the enzyme's starting to break it down. That makes it get easier and easier to digest once it gets to the stomach and once it gets down to the small intestine. Um, the small intestine is where most things are absorbed, but things are starting to be broken down before it gets there. And our carbohydrates, we know, are absorbed the quickest. Part of that is for that reason it starts in the mouth and down the esophagus, um, even before it gets to the small intestine. And so that's what accounts for that blood sugar rise quicker than other macronutrients. We know protein and fat are a lot slower, take a lot more time. So we got that big spike and then the drop. So it's getting into your bloodstream pretty quickly. But like that's also the reason why you can eat a bunch of white bread or you can eat a whole bag of potato chips probably in one sitting and not really get full because it's like being broken down, broken down, broken down, going in down to the going out into the bloodstream.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

I just want more potato chips if I try to eat a bag of potato chips.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I mean, that's why we don't keep those in the house. Like it literally dissolves. I tell clients like it is literally dissolving in your mouth, and that's why you never feel full, and it's addictive because the salt and because the little dopamine hit and it's being processed very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

So if we were to grade you on sequencing, starting with the carbs, starting with bread and chips and all that, that gets an F.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

That would be an F.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 10:00

So, what you don't want to do is that, right? Like as much as possible. And that's pretty easy to do because if you have bread, if you have um potatoes, maybe you have those at the end. Rice, maybe you have something over a bowl of rice. That gets a little trickier, but if you can try to save some of the rice towards the end, that is really gonna help stunt that blood sugar um spike. And so, you know, carbs start there with the starch breakdown. Once it gets the small intestine, it finishes being broken down. And protein, if you just think about proteins and other macronutrient, they are complex, like chicken, eggs, turkey, beef, like those are really complex, all the amino acids that your body has to break down. So that starts being broken down into smaller and smaller um, you know, polypeptides and things like that, but it's it's gonna take a lot longer. Yeah. And then same with if you think about um vegetables like cauliflower and you know, broccoli and asparagus, those are hard to break down too. Right. You know, because of the the texture, but also because of the fiber.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

Right. But so, but that's interesting because what I'm hearing also is that protein, animal proteins are difficult to break down, but almost in a different way than vegetables. Because vegetables is more about the fiber, but there's not a lot of there's not a lot of fiber in animal protein that I can use.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

Yeah, no fiber, unless it's a plant-based food. Right now, this all is because fiber, what's so great about fiber and weird is that it goes full us, full us through us, almost fully intact. Even all the way out into our poo. So, like some is broom. Yeah, it's sweeping on out. Um, and so sometimes some is broken down into uh short chain fatty acids, like by the bacteria, the probiotics, um, in our gut, in our colon, or in our gut, remember, is our colon, our lower intestine, our largest. Not the stomach. So when we talk about the gut microbiome, that's referring to really the colon.

SPEAKER_01 12:02

I think people get that wrong a lot of the time. When they think about the gut biome, I feel like they're thinking about what's going on in their stomach.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

In the gut, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:10

I mean But really in our stomach, it's like a it's like a combustion chamber, right? Like not a lot of bacteria probably lives I mean in the stomach itself.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

It's like bile and yeah, it's like a lot of things are getting absorbed. There's a lot of vitamins and micronutrients that are getting absorbed, um, vitamins and minerals. But really, when yeah, when you get to the colon, uh the bacteria are hard at work. And that's where there's a lot of magic happening. So that's why it's so important to get probiotics, take a supplement, or get it from foods, which is harder, or eat really good fibrous foods that have prebiotics in them as well, um, like the resistance starches and prebiotics are like the food that feed these bacteria. So, you know, there's you got to do several things, but eating more plants is definitely helpful. And that's why that can help with your colon health.

SPEAKER_01 13:01

And probiotics, that's is that the stuff that's already sort of along its way in the fermentation process, or does that really does that really matter like how fermented it is? Because I know kimchi and prebiotics or probiotics? Probio probiotics are what I'm thinking of, like our yogurts, yeah, yeah, and foods that we can kimchi and sauerkraut and they're ones that have been fermented, yeah. Yeah, so but that's more probiotics or prebiotics?

SPEAKER_00 13:32

Pro probiotics are the bacteria, so those are live.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Prebiotics are not live. Probiotics are the live bacteria. So, yes, if you buy yogurt, if you buy um, you know, Timpe has some kimchi sauerkraut if it's fresh, um, kefir, the yogurt drink. So there's not a ton of foods that have probiotics, but they do. Those still have live bacteria in them. And so when they reach your um your colon, they're helping just, you know, magnify the amount of bacteria you have to help break down the fibrous foods you're eating. Prebiotics are certain foods like asparagus and leeks and onion and garlic, things that we cook with a lot, that a lot of people cook with. Um, there's prebiotics that are not live, but they are the foods that these bacteria thrive on.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

So if you eat more of those, the bacteria thrive because they can feed on that more. And then that just helps the whole cycle.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Right. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Um, so a lot, there's a lot happening in the in the large intestine. But the reason why fiber is so important, and we'll talk about in the order of eating why it's actually really helpful to eat it first or second, if protein is first, um, because it remains intact. And so insoluble fiber, there's the two types. There's insoluble fiber and soluble fiber, as a quick little review. Insoluble fiber is like providing the structure to the stool to the stool and promotes movement. So if you think about like your poop log in the intestines, it's pushing through, it's like helping things move through.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Got it.

unknown 15:01

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:01

Whatever you want a visual.

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Well, it's like it's like the building blocks, it's like the cement for the uh for the poop log. Yeah, kind of holding it together. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

And it prevents constipation. So insoluble is more the one that helps with constipation. And that's like wheat bran. Um, there's there's a lot of vegetables, there's a mix. You know, a lot of them have insoluble and soluble, so you don't want to group it all into one category. All fiber is great. Um, but whole grains and things like that can help with the insoluble fiber.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

We do a lot of poop analysis at our house. We're still wiping butts. We're still wiping butts over here. So I like seeing them what's going on. We're categorizing poops on a daily basis. Is this a is this more of a snake poop? Is this more of a log poop? Is this more of a I mean, that's whatever.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

And then they're funny because they're like, I still see my carrots in there sometimes or corn or whatever. I'm like, yeah, sometimes you can see that. But that's because some fibers never ever get broken down. But then you have soluble fiber, which is a gel-forming one, and that actually dissolves in water to form like a gel-like structure. And so that's more like oats. That's what like can help more with uh cholesterol levels, you know, it's kind of the old school, um, like eat your oats or your oatmeal or your Cheerios for cholesterol levels, and then some fruits and beans, but that it does help with cholesterol and it stabilizes blood sugar as well. But both are important, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

And I think this is this is where some of the stuff kind of gets lost on people, is that like corn, for instance, is a whole grain, and when you eat corn just by itself, it's gonna pass through and sort of come out looking still like corn. But corn meal or things that are more processed form of forms of corn are gonna get absorbed completely different. They're gonna pass through completely different. They're already broken. You know, they're already a little bit more. They're already broken down. And so I think people don't understand all the way that like you have a food group and it's great for you, and then you process it a certain way and it's not as good for you anymore. Yeah. You know, it's like, you know, you really have to think about all of those complexities around the processing of different things.

SPEAKER_00 17:16

Yeah, it's kind of like when we're thinking about that funnel, if you're thinking about having whole fruit versus a smoothie, right? Your body is like breaking it down that fiber. You know, you're it's working, you're it's going all the way, mostly intact, all the way until it gets down to the colon, and then it might still be intact, except the bacteria are at work a little bit. But if you have a smoothie, it's already blended up. And also, if you think about like smoothies can easily be, you know, if we're talking about weight loss, weight management, smoothies depend on what you add to it, could easily be 250 calories, 300 more. I mean, uh some of these smoothie places, I'm not gonna call them out, but I mean they're some of them have 75 grams of sugar in there.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Yeah, and they're adding, yeah, I was gonna say, and they're adding sugar.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, it's like, or some I've seen are 100 grams of sugar.

SPEAKER_01 18:00

Or let's just put some honey in there because that's healthy. It comes from bees.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Well, they don't always specify it's like a fruit syrup. Some has real fruit, and then there's some of the ingredients we'll say, like a fruit syrup or fruit blend. So a lot of added sugar could be there. But anyways, then you're thinking about a smoothie going into your funnel, pouring into your stomach, it's just gonna kind of fall through a little bit more easily, and then juice even quicker.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

So if anyone's ever actually made their own juice, you see it's like seven oranges for like a tiny bit. But if you thought about eating seven oranges, yeah, you would never do it, right? But you're gonna you're gonna somehow rationalize that it's okay to have seven oranges worth of juice.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

Yeah, it's a lot for your blood sugar, a lot. Um, I mean, a lot of calories if you if you really add it up, and maybe not that satisfying. Like maybe a sip or two. Oh, that'd be refreshing in the summer. Like I would love a fresh juice occasionally for a couple sips, but a whole, you know, and those are like twelve, fifteen dollars, these fresh juices that people buy. All right.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

So, what would be our A plus? Give me the A plus sequence of eating. Yeah. So we got I'm I'm looking at my plate. I have, you know, a little bit of starch, I have a serving of starch, I measured it. I have a bunch of veggies because I can just eat as many of those as I want. I have a big old piece of protein of some sort.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

And I have a little side solid. What am I starting with?

SPEAKER_00 19:28

Well, it depends. So I'm gonna take it back for a second, and it depends on the population and what your goals are. So my previous training was in bariatric patients, postoperative bariatric surgery. Very hard to get enough protein because they had to have protein. They also had to have other nutrients, but protein was like the biggest hitter. Like they even liquid protein was hard to get in because their stomachs are so much smaller, their absorption might be down, but depending on the type of procedure they got. So protein was always first, first, first protein. Eat your protein before even your vegetables, because they just did not have much room. And it was super important as they're losing weight very quickly.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

Wait, can we put our GLP1 people maybe into this category too?

SPEAKER_00 20:12

Yeah, maybe because vegetables, and this is where it's like, you know, maybe this is why talking to a professional would be great to know what your diet actually is, because yeah, you can lose your muscle mass so quickly, your hair growth, your skin, your nails, you know, there's your energy. Um, if you don't get your protein in and those amino acids, it can really make a big difference.

SPEAKER_01 20:34

So but not all protein is gonna feel the same on your stomach. So like a fattier piece of meat, and that's the thing with the GLP1 is like they get very full, but also if if they start with like a high fat, like they're gonna get super full and they don't always feel the best. That's just right, you know, I haven't done one, obviously. But my experience with my clients that I'm talking to is like they just if you know, depending on the dosage, but yeah, if they're eating something a little bit fattier, they well, this is where texture comes into play.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

So for bariatric clients and GLP1, those on GLP1 medications, maybe you're if you do protein first, then you do the softer things that are easier to eat, like tuna salad or tuna or salmon or leaner, you know, chicken that's not too dry and not too heavy. Yeah, because some of those things can fill them up. But it might be better depending on how much protein they need and they're not getting, it might be better to start with the protein. Ideally, though, and for the majority of people, fiber, non-starchy vegetables, uh like leafy green salads, cruciferous vegetables, those would be where you want to start. Yeah. Um, but that can be very filling. So for the those other, you know, those other populations, GLP1s, um well, and this would follow it.

SPEAKER_01 21:51

It seems like these people would be all right, I want to maximize something we talk about all the time. I want to maximize my insulin sensitivity.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

Yeah. And so

SPEAKER_01 22:00

So for these, for the people who are looking at it from like a longevity standpoint, from a metabolism standpoint, from a weight loss or body uh composition standpoint, uh-huh, we're looking at fiber, fiber first. Fiber first.

SPEAKER_00 22:13

And it coats the small intestine and it just makes everything, it just slows down the gastrogyptene, coats the small intestine after the stomach, and just you know, slows down the absorption of foods.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Because your body, your body's working, your body's working, and so it's gonna still be working like the same amount as we like put some more stuff on there. Now it's all blending together.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Now that doesn't say, I mean, protein still slows down digestion as well. You know, protein is um a lot slower in absorption than carbohydrates, but about 50 to 58 percent of it still turns into glucose. So it is gonna, you know, go a little bit faster than like fat would. Um, so but I think either are better than starting with a carb, right? Like either of those things are better for the majority of the population. Fiber would be best to start with.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

How much fiber is in a head of romaine lettuce? Oh, yeah, I mean, and so that but that also is a good thing to note because uh and 1.5 grams of fiber is in it is in a head of romaine lettuce. Yeah. But that's a good thing to note is that, you know, okay, you may be starting with a salad, but if your salad dressing has a lot of sugar added to it, boom, we're like kind of in back in that right.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Or if you're drinking a sweet tea with your meal, maybe, you know, it's yeah. So there's things to think about. But this it's all grouped together. So yeah, the sugary stuff, whatever it is, should be at the end. Right. If if possible.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Right.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

Um, fiber first, and then proteins, and then bottom or last would be your carbohydrates, your rice, your pasta, your breads, um, your fruits, even. And that's kind of a nice thing to end on because it's sweeter. Yeah. And so it's a nice thing to end the meal on. Um, but that would be ideal. Also, if you're thinking about if you do want to, if you are a volume eater or you want to lose weight and you have trouble with portions, okay.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Your vegetables and your salad are I felt like you looked at me like a little bit more when you said volume eater. Like, well, no, no, no. If you eat a ton of food, then I can't.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

I feel like I have to eat smaller, you know, smaller meals throughout the day, but a lot of people are volume eaters and that gets them into trouble if they're starting with the high dense, the high calorie dense breads and like sandwiches and then chips or pretzels or whatever it is, that's gonna get you into trouble. So if you're a volume eater specifically, definitely get on the fiber for salad, vegetables, whatever, raw vegetables, and then your proteins, and maybe that has some fats with it, and then your carbs lost. That's the ideal order. Um, and those are the reasons why. For volume, you know, we we tend to live in excess in the United States or always want more, always want bigger portions were served a lot. So if you go to a restaurant and use these tax tactics, that can make a big difference in your calorie, in your calories too. You could save half your meal and have it another day instead of eating it all or eating most.

SPEAKER_01 25:10

Now, y'all, this also matters too if you are like some people that I know who while they're making dinner go into the fridge and find some dips and want something to dip in there.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But that's also a great time to do the veggies. Do the veggies. Yeah. Like hit your veggies.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

I'm way better about that. Yeah. I think coming, I think I used to do that way more coming home from my other job, yeah, too, and being stressed. And when the kids were like babies, I would just like mindlessly like snack. It's like, and it's like the the stress. I'm like going over my day, I'm like ruminating over the day. Yeah. And eating mindlessly.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

How many triskets are in a serving?

SPEAKER_00 25:50

I mean, like six, and it's 120 calories. That goes very quick.

SPEAKER_01 25:54

I mean, that's you know, and then it doesn't I can eat really three triskets in just like a stack, just like just like one. Yeah. I mean, there, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:02

Boom, 60 calories. So, anyways, yeah, so you know, get your veggies. That yeah, and and a lot of I know a lot of people, and we do it too sometimes is and the kids are better about not snacking before dinner, I think, was because we're so busy in the evenings now. But a lot of people will serve their kids a platter of veggies um before dinner, or just leave it out and don't say a word. That's a great tip for kids who are always in the cabinets or the pantry, like while you're cooking dinner, and then they don't want to eat dinner because if you just leave out the raw veggies and it's there, they will gravitate to it, eat it, it gets their fiber. Um, it may not fill them up too much, depending on what it is, but at least you know they got some vegetables in too.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

There are some great dips out there too that aren't like hammering the calories. I know that's good. The Greek yogurt dips. Yeah, like the Greek yogurt one spinach and artichose. Yeah, but there's a lot of them.

SPEAKER_00 26:54

There's now there's cottage cheese dips, there's Greek yogurt dips, even like the black bean dips and hummus. I mean, those can add up, um, but those are better and they've got some fiber in them and some some fat. So, yeah, but still you don't want to hammer the dips before dinner, if possible. Uh so, so thinking about that order of eating funnel structure. So, this is going to help improve um, you know, blood sugar response. It also just allows you to get in your protein and your fiber, which are the two nutrients we talk about the most, I would say, that most people are lacking. Um, so if you front load those and have those at the beginning of the meal, just like we talk about that, you know, front loading them at breakfast or in the beginning of the day, front load them at the meal too, so that you make sure you get them. And then you can have your starch or your bread or whatever, but then you'll have less room for that higher calorie, higher carb stuff that you probably don't need. Okay. So another great thing, I'm just gonna highlight another great thing about fiber-rich foods, not forgetting them, having them at the beginning of the meal or second, if you need to do the protein first, is that when they do get fermented by bacteria, one of the byproducts is in the colon, it makes short chain fatty acids from breaking down the fiber. And so, what that is, have you heard of that? I think we've talked about that before.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Isn't that protein sort of um short chain?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Short chain fatty acids do a lot of different things in the body. So they're produced from amino acids.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Oh, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:24

Different from amino acids from protein. But short chain fatty acid, there's a lot of health benefits to those. And you can they can be made in the colon by different foods that you eat, but they do they act as signaling molecules. They can actually cross the blood brain barrier and and use a signal as like signal the the through the vagus nerve, um, which could help with mood, neuroprotection, you know, mental health. Um, they can also pr suppress cytokines, the pro-inflammatory cytokines that we always talk about.

SPEAKER_01 28:56

That's where my mind went. It's anti-inflammatory.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

They do, yeah. So they're they can be anti-inflammatory. They do a lot of different things. They also, which is interesting, this brings us full circle to the GLP1s, they also trigger the release of hormones like GLP1. And so it could help if you're getting enough fiber, which is, you know, intact, it helps with volume, it helps with feeling full, it helps with uh preventing constipation, it helps with cholesterol levels. That's going all the way to the colon. And some of that is breaking down into short-term fatty, short-chain fatty acids that can help promote GLP1, which is gonna help with appetite, which is gonna help with, you know, regulating if you have trouble with eating too much or you want to lose weight because you're eating too many calories. Um, and then it helps with blood sugar as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:43

Give me your top five, and you could like kind of lump in a couple, you know, if you want to put like asparagus and broccoli together, but give me your like top five fibrous, fibroist, fiber rich. Fibrous. Fibrous. Fibrous rich.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Would be the top most fibrous.

SPEAKER_01 30:12

Um, give me your top five most fiber dense. There we go.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Okay, top five. It depends on the portion, obviously. But I would say, you know, because there's charts all over the place, like a half a cup of this is nine grams.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

Um, obviously, like the you're if you're gonna like have like a quarter cup of chia seeds or something, that's probably but we're talking about like things that are people to eat. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

And not like choke on. Um, so I would say this is not in specific order, but like lentils uh are are pretty high. I believe they're in about nine grams per half a cup.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

That tastes like it.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

Um which is also gonna fill you up in volume. Now these now beans are all high in fiber, but I wouldn't have those first at the beginning of the meal. They are carbohydrates. Yeah, um, they are fiber, they are more of your fiber, but when we talk about eating fiber at the beginning of the meal, it's more of the salads, the cruciferous vegetables, the non-starchy vegetables. Um, but lintils and beans are just up there. I mean, beans in general are really high in fiber. Even a half a cup, a whole cup can make a big, put a big divot in your day. And remember, we need, I mean, technically it's females need 25 grams of fiber a day in general, males need 38 grams, but we're finding it really, we really need more like.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Can we just say, yeah, like 45 for each person?

SPEAKER_00 31:31

I mean, I think you know, children and adults, like women, especially when we get into perimenopause age, at least 30 grams a day. And that is, y'all, that's hard to get. Yeah. I mean, if you actually add up the amount of fiber, but if you're doing beans, if you're doing avocado is a great fiber source, which is turkey.

SPEAKER_01 31:49

I once heard an avocado has the equivalent of four slices of whole wheat bread, the same amount of fiber. It could be.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

I don't know off the top of my head how much fiber it has, but it is like think about when you when you cut it, it's got the strings, kind of like sweet potato, but it's higher than than sweet potato and fiber. Um, but it's got like little strings. So those are the fibers. But what's weird is it's a fat, too. So you wouldn't think it would be high in fiber, but that has some good fiber in it, beans, lentils.

SPEAKER_01 32:16

Um gosh, is there anything else like an avocado? Like so unique. What is up with that? Maybe like an artichoke. Is that kind of similar?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Artichokes are pretty high in fiber. Okay. Yeah, we should add more of those into our cooking.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

I do like work, right? Like you have to.

SPEAKER_00 32:33

Well, you get the jarred ones, but those aren't gonna be, yeah, those aren't gonna be as good. Um, and then I'm trying to think um for their fiber sources. What would be my top?

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Well, it's gotta be like, isn't cauliflower and yeah, the cruciferous vegetables.

SPEAKER_00 32:49

But I would say berries are a great source for what you get, like calorie-wise, um, you know, they're lower sugar, higher fiber fruit. So that's one of the best fruits you can have, berries or cherries. And they give you a good amount of they get you a good amount of fiber. So if you had like a cup of raspberries on your yogurt or something, that's gonna get you a decent amount of fiber in comparison to other fruits, maybe pear and apple also have some good fiber. But things like, you know, the um the melon or bananas or things like that may not have quite as much fiber. However, you know how green bananas have more resistant starch? Have you heard about that? Instead of the more ripe bananas, it's actually better for your blood sugar.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Well, I think for your do not like a ripe banana. We don't like it. I mean, if that's well, but if that banana has one brown spot on it and it's uh peel it and it's got that mush fat uh uh.

unknown 33:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:44

That avocados, I need those to be firm.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Yeah, you can't be so picky about that stuff. But anyways, I'm just like cut it off.

unknown 33:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

But the green bananas have more resistance starch in them. Okay, and so kind of like um if you've heard, like when you when you cook pasta and rice, you cook it, then you cool it and then have it cool, it has more resistance starch in it, which can actually impact your blood sugar. And it can actually, this would be a good experiment with our CGMs. Um, if it makes a difference in our blood sugar spike, if you have like a cooked and cooled rice with a dish versus like, you know, right after you cooked it. Interesting. Um, but that has more resistance starch, which often promotes um butyrate production, which is a short chain fatty acid.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:29

And and also like lentils, chickpeas, black beans, those have butyrate in them as well. But green bananas uh have more of that resistance starch, which can help turn into you know that bacteria break it down into short chain fatty acids. So, anyways, if you have a super ripe banana, some people like them super ripe and they're sweeter, you can just kind of taste that sweetness. They also don't have as much resistance starch in them at that time, and they're super chocolate sugar out with a chalky banana that's like green, yeah. Yeah, before it has any any brown spots on it. Um so yeah, and then and then you know, fruits in general, like another reason to not hate on our fruit friends or be scared of fruit is they have pectin in them, which can help also um yield short chain fatty acids. Um pectin is what is that powder that we make jam with that thickens it. So that's from that's taken from fruits.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

So if we were to if we were to put our all-star lineup plate together of because I guess with the protein, the protein's gonna be either animal, but if it I guess if you did like tempeh or something, then you'd have even more protein, right? Yeah. So we got broccoli, some cruciferous vegetable. That's like broccoli, asparagus, cauliflower, russell sprouts? Are those do those are those cruciferous? Yeah. Okay. So something like that. And then we have our beans or lentils as our starch. And then we have our protein. And then we finish it off with like a couple blackberries, raspberries.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yes. I mean, that would be and maybe salmon is your protein. Yeah. That's your omega-3 fatty acids.

SPEAKER_01 36:06

That'd be that would be a good one.

SPEAKER_00 36:08

That'd be a great meal. Yeah. Finish off. I mean, yeah, berries are great. If you force yourself, this is like where the behavior comes in, right? Like the, you know, things I talk to clients about. Like if you can just have the berries readily available in your fridge and you're having a sweet craving for those who really like some and sweet at the end of every meal. If you just have them available and you get in the habit or maybe force yourself once to open the fridge and actually eat a few raspberries or blackberries, that sweetness usually satisfies you. And then it makes that craving go away. Um, so fruits are like that, and that could be a really good end of the meal.

SPEAKER_01 36:45

Just putting them on your plate, too. There's something satisfying about just like seeing, you know, because I can eat some berries.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

I could eat an entire little cocoa nibs on top, or have it over some Greek yogurt, and that'll give you a little bit more probiotics. But but sounds good. But as like a little dessert or a snack, an afternoon snack, a little pick-me-up. People like sweet stuff in the afternoon. Maybe you do a yogurt bowl, Greek yogurt with your berries, a little cocoa nibs, or a little cinnamon, or a little um, you know, there's all sorts of stuff. Flaxseed, chia seeds. You could you could add all sorts of stuff. Um, what maybe some of that seed granola that's not high in sugar, that's just like seeds or slivered almonds or something like that. Give a little crunch, crushed walnuts. So that's a great, like sweet kind of snack to have in the afternoon that would really help your gut health, um, but also get you protein and fiber. But yeah, the cruciferous vegetables on is the more you can have those, the better. And they also are loaded with prebiotics, which help feed that bacteria in the gut. So, and they're just like bulky, right? So they're gonna fill you up, and you can have a lot of it for for low calories.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

So start with fiber, hammer the protein, put the good, put the carbs on top.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah, and sprinkle fat throughout. You know, you're gonna have fat throughout the meal, so that's not talked about quite as much with the order of eating. You just don't want to have that fat first. Yeah, like you don't want to go into dinner having had two tablespoons of peanut butter right before. Right. Right. That's not gonna that's gonna fill you up a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 38:15

And I think that this also kind of ties into wanting to reverse engineer this for performance. So if you know you're going to a workout, do not have a lot of fiber.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

Try to stay away from the fat.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Check the fats, try not to have a lot of fiber. You want things that are gonna be absorbed quickly, especially within that like 30-minute window prior to working out. You know, I have we have so many clients who like come and they've fasted or they had a protein shake or something before they work out, and they are just dragging. Yeah. So you got to, you know, give yourself a little bit of energy and just know also, too, from a metabolism standpoint that you know, if you increase your blood glucose right before a workout, then what's primarily gonna happen is your muscles are just gonna start consuming that as soon as you start moving. So you don't have to worry so much about you know hampering your your metabolism that day, having it in really close proximity. I mean, I will literally be warming up and I'll like after after I warm up, I'll pound an orange and then yeah, I'm like because it's digesting so quick, it's just like it's giving you that that glucose, it's giving you that energy right there.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, and um, yeah, so and like everything, this is these are general recommendations, of course. You know, talking to a dietitian, talking to about your performance, about your going to workouts, post-workout, the timing makes a difference. This is for general meals, but yes, you wouldn't want to do this right before a workout. Um, you if you think about snacks as many meals, that's a healthier way to view snacks because otherwise we try to, you know, to think about like the process, what can I have? Like chips, pretzels, those are snacks, crackers, those are snacks. But thinking about this guideline as your uh for your snacks as well. So like I wouldn't go into a snack and have a ton of fruit first and then something, or a ton of crackers, and then my cheese stick.

SPEAKER_01 40:09

So maybe have like, you know, your veggies and your cheese stick, or I'm just thinking about the bag of nuts and how many, how many nut servings of nuts I can eat and just like just hand, you know. So what would be better is to get some veggies. Yeah, start with that, and then portion out some nuts. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:29

And it slows you down for sure. So another takeaway from this is next time you do go out to a restaurant, think about this as well. And what we've, you know, what we sometimes do is like split a salad to start with.

SPEAKER_01 40:44

You're seeing though a lot of restaurants on their appetizers now now have a salad. They well, they definitely have a salad, but a lot of them are now doing like the small plate Brussels sprouts or broccoli or something like, right? Aren't you seeing that? I feel like we've seen that recently.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

But they're like loaded with stuff that's yummy that makes it very yummy. True. So yeah, while it is fiber, yeah. Or it's like, you know, um a bourbon maple glaze Brussels sprouts with, you know, some sort of cheese, like, but I mean, yes, that's giving you some fiber, that's giving you some vegetables. Is that the most like calorically friendly way to do it? Probably not. But if you can do like a you know, a salad, a house salad, um save the going out.

SPEAKER_01 41:28

Don't don't try to just enjoy going out and just don't do it that frequently, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Yeah, but do the veggies first when you can or a salad first, and that will help you. If you're like, I gotta just end with this. You have always been one to be kind of like scared you're not gonna get enough food at restaurants.

SPEAKER_01 41:46

You mean like my caveman mentality? Yeah, just like you're like my scarcity rates. Well, I'm gonna get my own.

SPEAKER_00 41:51

I'm like, don't you want to split one? You're like, uh you've gotten better. But I'm you're like, I want to get my own entree. I'm like, this is gonna be so much food. No, you've gotten better because we've done more of the top style. You were against those to begin with. You're like, what are all these small plates? But I'm saying when you do go out and you're someone like that, it can be super helpful to like start with splitting a salad. Now the server may not be as happy or the restaurant, right? But like split a salad to start, see how that goes, and maybe an ordered appetizer or split an entree. Often that's enough.