Calligraphy Biz Corner

31. How This Creative Mom Built a Thriving Calligraphy Business with Relationship Marketing with Jen Bowen of She Made It Like That

• Alane Gianetti

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What does it really look like to grow a thriving creative business while raising a family, managing a full client roster, and staying true to yourself?

In this episode, we’re joined by Jen Bowen of She Made It Like That—calligrapher, engraver, and live event artist. Since starting her calligraphy business in 2020, Jen has gone from taking on her first wedding project to becoming a sought-after artist known for her genuine client relationships, polished brand, and community-first approach.

Whether you're a new calligrapher wondering how to get clients or a seasoned creative balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship, Jen shares real-life insights on building a calligraphy business that’s both profitable and sustainable.

We’re diving into:

  • How Jen used relationship marketing to book her first clients and grow her brand
  • The power of networking, vendor connections, and in-person events for live artists
  • Investing in yourself vs. DIYing your business
  • How to balance motherhood and entrepreneurship without burning out
  • Encouragement for creative business owners at every stage of the journey 


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alane_2_05-01-2025_154111:

hello and welcome back to Calligraphy Biz Corner. I'm Elaine.

shaochen_2_05-01-2025_134111:

And I'm XO Chen, and today we have a fellow calligrapher, Jen Bowen of, she made it like that on our show, jen was actually one of my very first coaching clients back in 2020, and then later joined my pro wedding choreographer course as well. So I have gotten to be a part of her journey from the very beginning of her business and also see the evolution over the past five years of her business. So I'm so, so excited to have her on our show, and she has. So many great insights that she shared over the last five years of her business. So what the way we're structuring this episode is that we're gonna be kind of talking about her journey from the very beginning. Like what helped her when she was first starting to get her very first clients, and then as her business grew, what kind of investments really helped her to take her business to the next level. And then also where she's at today with her business balancing running it along with being a mom to four boys.

alane_2_05-01-2025_154111:

So before we jump into the interview, we just wanna take a moment to thank our latest by me, a coffee supporter. Huge thanks to Elizabeth of Elizabeth Stuckey designs for her generous donation. Your support helped fund our recent podcast photo shoot that we just did at Creative Educator Conference, which all of those sneak peeks are probably shared on our Instagram and website and new podcast covered by now. Um, but it also helps support the software and the programs that we use to share this content with all of you. So if you would like to support the show, you can head to the show notes, for the link to the buy me a coffee page.

shaochen_2_05-01-2025_134111:

So going back to the conversation today, there were so many great takeaways. We talked about relationships to marketing strategies, why investing makes sense if we're doing everything yourself. But ultimately, I think the part of the conversation that really stuck out to me was towards the end we were talking about. business, motherhood and other responsibilities that you have in your lives that we all have in our lives. And Jen just had such a great metaphor for how she thinks about kind of juggling it all. And as someone who has a 2-year-old, and kids who are younger than Jen's kids, I just felt like it was a great kind of roadmap or way for me to look ahead into the future to see how I could kind of make it all work for my business with my kids.

alane_2_05-01-2025_154111:

Yeah, I feel like that was such a beautiful conversation and I really enjoyed just hearing how she approaches. Running her business as well as being a full-time mom. The, the top word that comes to me or that comes to mind when I kind of reflect back on our conversation that we just had is this idea of intentionality, because I feel like Jen just approaches. Every relationship and connection with such beautiful intention, whether it is a networking connection, a possible client, a fellow calligrapher, her kids, her husband, her family, whatever the case may be, she does it with such intention and really strives to show up. As a genuine person, building genuine connections, but also, you know, fully present in her business when it is time to focus on her business, and then also fully present in her family when it is time to be focusing on her family. So, yeah, I feel like my biggest takeaway is just this idea of just approaching relationship building and creating connections with this idea of intentionality behind it.

shaochen_2_05-01-2025_134111:

We can't wait to have you listen in on the conversation. So a quick intro to Jen. She's a calligrapher and engraver who's. Specializes in creating amazing guest experiences through live event personalization at a wide variety of events and luxury gift engraving. Whether she's customizing items on site or in her studio, she loves using thoughtful words and meaningful details to help people feel seen, celebrated, and connected. I also found out as I was reading her like fun facts for her introduction. Jen and I are both, not only calligraphers, but we're also flu players as well. So we have that in common.

alane_2_05-01-2025_154111:

Oh.

shaochen_2_05-01-2025_134111:

Um, but yeah. But without further ado, we're gonna jump into the interview.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Welcome Jen to Calligraphy Biz Corner. We're so excited to have you here. Before we dive in, can you just give us a little bit of an introduction to you and your business?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Well first, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here chatting with you too. I feel like this is kind of a similar story for a lot of calligraphers, but kind of accidentally started during COVID I got really into calligraphy and started testing out, doing different things, and it's just kind of snowballed since then. I feel like a big part is just building connections and relationships and just trying new things. A lot of it feels kind of like going outside my comfort zone, and it's just been really fun to see where calligraphy has taken me, the different opportunities that have arisen.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah. And I've kind of seen your journey from the beginning and seen it evolve from doing kind of more product calligraphy, wedding calligraphy now towards really focusing on live calligraphy. So we'll talk more about that whole evolution. But just to take us back to the beginning tell us about how you got your very first clients, and you kind of mentioned a little bit about the importance of relationships. So how did that kind of play into it?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

So when I first started with COVID, everything was really isolating and kind of shut off. So I think a big part of the reason I started my Instagram was to build connections and to connect with people. so when I first started, I just kind of was like, you know what, wedding calligraphy looks kind of interesting. So I started looking up local wedding vendors in my area and just started following them. And then a big part of it was just kind of trying to interact genuinely with their content. So liking their posts. Like commenting, not trying to draw attention to me, but like really actually like genuinely commenting on their posts. Because as all of us who do posts on Instagram, it's really exciting when people actually interact with those posts and it makes you feel good. So it was just kinda a way of like just kind of starting conversations and just trying to like meet new people and build those relationships.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

And how did that help you to, how did that like lead you to your first clients or did that turn into clients?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah, it actually started too, so, I started my Instagram in April and then by August I actually had a big nationwide known wedding planner who's based out of Houston, but they have several other locations around the country. They actually reached out to me for a last minute project of painting 100 paper parasols in like a week and a half, and it was. They said the reason that they thought of me or found me was because I had been interacting with their posts and that I had come to mind because of that.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

that. And I still remember when you got that gig,'cause we were already working together, like you were, we were doing mentoring together. So that was like so, so exciting.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

It was such a whirlwind. It was crazy. My whole house was like covered in paper parasols and like getting my kids like do not touch these parasols and just trying to like, a lot of it was like after they were in bed the whole house would just be covered with drying parasols'cause they wanted flowers painted on them. And then I like hand painted the names for all the bridal party and grossly undercharged for that project. But I learned a lot and it was definitely a crazy starting experience on like my first like ma major wedding project.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Was actually my first like actual wedding I did anything for was that

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

I mean, you say you're like undercharging compared to like what you know now and all that. But also at that time it was like a four figure job, right? And it was like your first big wedding client gig. So I remember that just being like a huge milestone.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah, that was pretty huge for me, so

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

That's incredible. I love your approach to Instagram and social media and how it really sounds like it's more of a connection and relationship building platform for you. And then the marketing is kind of like the happy byproduct of that, of getting your name out there, but like you're really focused on more of that, like making those connections, treating people like the way you would wanna be treated kind of, right? Like I love what you said, like we all know that, you know, excitement of when you post something and put it out there and somebody comments or likes it or whatever the case may be, and I. You know, that idea of like, if that's what I want in my business, then I'm also gonna give it out into the world as well. So, kind of shifting gears more towards like social media and SEO, in a world where we are obsessed with like these two marketing strategies, why do you believe that relationships are still one of the most powerful ways to build a thriving calligraphy business?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

So I feel like relationships are huge because when anyone who would be giving a referral, they're more likely to think of people who they're friends with or have like a relationship with because they, that it builds out no like and trust factor that you hear a lot about. And just having that relationship, like you're kind of like, okay, I know how you interact with me. I know what kind of a person you are. I feel more confident in like, because when we refer somebody, it reflects on us. And so if you know that that person people skills and can like, be engaging, be somebody who will be kind and helpful and reliable and all the things it's a lot more likely that they're gonna wanna recommend you to that person. Because I feel like if you're just the kind of person who like hops into someone's dms and you're like, Hey, you should hire me for this, even though you don't know who I am at all, it's really more of a big turnoff than anything else. but just building those relationships really does make a difference in people thinking about you, remembering you, and then top of mind.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

I think that's a really good segue into like our next question is like, how do you build those like intentional, genuine connections that don't feel salesy? Because I think we all get those requests in our dms, you know, that are like, Hey, I can like make your website so much better. Hire me for this. And I'm like, yeah, I don't know you. Why would I trust you? Right. Do you have some tips for us on like how you go about building that know, like, and trust factor?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

I think one of the biggest things to keep in mind is not to rush it. It's not one of those, it's a lot of times it's a longing. Like for example I use one, some of the first events I started doing in stores were with House of Creed and my setup was right next to Joe Malone.'cause Joe Malone and Creed were right next to each other. And I built a really good friendship with the lady at Joe Malone. And I was just like, oh, it'd be amazing if like she then recommended me or anything like that. But it took like months, like, I think it was like six months to a year before, she's like, oh, we actually have,'cause they kind of had their artists and stuff, but I think they weren't available then. And then I came to mind. even if, and a lot of relationships that I build with other people who could potentially hire me or potentially refer me, most of those actually don't go anywhere. And that's totally fine.'cause then you just like have a great friendship and you have good relationships. So you really never know what could lead to something. And so just being friendly and just building relationships and friendships, I mean, you're just making the world a better place, right? When you're just helping brighten somebody day by being kind and being supportive and encouraging. And so I feel like it's just one of those things where not being fake and not doing it with an agenda, and not like trying to rush things or force things, just getting to know people and doing, seeing what you can do to help'em, seeing what you can do to support'em. And a lot of times that leads into really interesting opportunities.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah, I love that approach.'cause you also don't ever know like who they might know and maybe they're not going to hire you for a specific job that they have, but they might, somebody else might be like, oh, do you know a calligrapher for X, Y, and Z? And they're gonna be like, oh yeah, I know Jen, you have to work with her. She's so great. So it's just like, I feel like it's another one of those long-term marketing strategies that doesn't necessarily get talked about a ton.'cause we do usually go to like SEO blogging, Pinterest, like YouTube, all of these things. I also feel like building relationships is probably the one that pays off the most as well at the end of the day. I mean, I've seen that in my own business too, with just like word of mouth referrals from planners past clients, and that's really where the bulk of my own business comes from at this point is word of mouth referrals and like they're the best people too because they know the best people like, you know what I mean? You kind of have this network going of just like really great people that you actually wanna be working to.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah, definitely.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

I love what you said about it being a long game. Know I am an impatient person and I wanna see results instantly. And I think social media feeds into that cycle too, because we're always like, how many views did this get? How many likes I post a reel and I'm like, refresh, refresh, refresh. You know what I mean? So I think that's like such a good reminder. And similar to Elaine, like my best clients come from referrals. They're also people that I've worked with multiple times. So we also know how to work well with each other. Right. And I've also had students who like have followed me for three plus years and then bought my course. And so I think you just, you just never know who's kind of out there listening, watching, consuming your content, loving what you do, and just waiting for the, when the time is right. And so when you were saying like, you know, some of those relationships, they might. Maybe they haven't paid off, but also maybe they haven't paid off yet. You're just not at that point where there's the right opportunity that's come along. So I just, I just love what you shared there about it, thinking about it like a long game.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Thank you. So I feel like a lot of focus of what we've been talking about so far has been on Instagram and building up relationships like via social media with Instagram. But I did wanna highlight that there are several other areas or ways to build relationships that have led to really like cool events and opportunities. And I feel like at, as you start building these relationships and as you start connecting with people, like things start to snowball. Like things have been super busy. I feel like each year has gotten busier and more and more things like that. So the first one really is like the social media, like we've talked about. Another thing that's been really helpful with building those relationships has been networking events and getting involved with like the community who whether it's like general events or whether it's more wedding related, so things like the local wipa or we've got the Association of Wedding Planners for Houston and I've been a part of that. And so like just going to meetings, connecting with people. A lot of times that's a way for people to start getting to know you and being able to like, think of you or connect with you or different things like that. another thing that's been super helpful has been connecting with other calligraphers local ones in particular because a lot of times people will get booked out, like especially around super busy times of the year, whether it's like peak wedding season or whether for events, it's like Mother's Day, Christmas especially when you're more getting started. It's super helpful. Like my very first event was because another calligrapher was like getting a request for a time she was already booked for and she needed somebody else to refer. And so that was how I kind of got my foot in the door, was starting to do events. And being able to do that was because I had already been building these relationships with other local calligraphers. And the fourth one I wanted to say this was super helpful when I first was getting into weddings in the very beginning was getting involved in style shoots and I, I usually tried to just do the ones that were local and just do the ones that I could actually show up in person and be a part of because then I could in be a part of it, talk, get to know the other people also help make sure that my stuff was photographed well. And but just being there, interacting with people. And then lastly, I just wanna also highlight, LinkedIn has been a huge one for me with building,'cause I've been doing a lot more with corporate events lately. And I feel like LinkedIn is kind of an untapped resource there and several opportunities have been happening with that. And then the last one I wanted to share too was just while you're actually at events for those who do events just talking to people, being friendly it really is huge at that to be out for people to see what you do interact with them. You'll be more memorable. And a lot of my inquiries actually come from people are, I saw you at this past event and I would love to have you at my event.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah. Always make sure I bring business cards too, for that exact reason. Right. I loved all of your tips. couple that really resonated with me are around, like, connecting with your local calligraphers. So one thing I've noticed happening more is like, I think people are starting to see the value of these like live events and they wanna do it for bigger events, like conferences and things like that, which opens up more opportunities for us to have bigger calligrapher teams. And so it's great not only for referrals to know your local calligraphers, but also if someone wants to build out their team for an event. Like I'm actually hiring for two live events right now, and so there's only a handful of calligraphers in my area. So naturally I have all of them in my phone and can just text them when something comes up. I love all of those specific tips that you shared there.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah, those are all really actionable takeaways for everyone to kind of sit down and do, and I love that it's not like. Post more on social media, like spend time in the dms. Like I feel like those are always our go-tos. Update your website, but you know, relationships are right, it's person to person. So it's so nice that a lot of these are like those in person connections in such like wide variety of ways. So thank you for sharing all of those with us.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Sure.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

When you were talking about the LinkedIn tip, I was curious can you tell us a little bit more about what specifically you're doing on LinkedIn? Is it like, you know, making sure your LinkedIn profile's updated? That's probably the first thing, right? But are you like posting status messages out there, or are you pitching yourself to people with marketing titles? Like how are you using LinkedIn?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

So my LinkedIn strategy is the first thing I did really when I was really getting into it. I mean, aside from setting up my profile and getting that all ready to go was I actually started just searching up people in my area and just sending out a lot of connecting requests, right? When I first was doing it, I was doing a lot more focusing with the in-store events. And so for those I would look up like Gucci in Houston or Dior in Houston and try to connect. Lately, one that I found has been super helpful. It's been like lifestyle director or like executive assistants or event planners. But I don't wanna like cold pitch them because I know sometimes I'll have, I'll get connection requests from like virtual assistants or other people who are like, and then they slide into my dms and they're like, Hey, this is what I have to offer you and to sell you. And I just kinda like, I don't really feel like talking to them, like, you know, just chills, icky to me. And so a lot of times I do the same thing as on Instagram. Like if somebody posts something, like a lot of times they'll be like, oh, I got this promotion. I'll do like the clappy hands reaction or like, congratulations or just, you know, just kind of genuinely interacting with them. Not trying to be like, Hey, look what I can do, or anything like that. But just like genuinely interacting. And then I feel like people don't interact a lot on LinkedIn. Like there's a lot less commenting and reacting to posts on LinkedIn than on social media. So if you comment, you really do stand out and then people are pretty likely to actually click on your profile and be like, who is this person who's commenting on my thing? But I've actually had a lot of corporate event things have come through that some of, and it's been like really good connections that I do an event with them and then it's led to other events kind of a thing. It kind of took a little while to get some momentum. But that's kind of been my strategy. I don't just like try to pitch people on there. Sometimes I'll take, if I do a post on social media that I think, I mean on Instagram, that I feel like could work well on LinkedIn, I'll just repost it in LinkedIn. I might change it a little bit to seem a little bit more professional and a little bit less like conversational, like Instagram, I don't usually like create separate posts for LinkedIn. I'll just kind of repurpose that content so I don't post on there nearly as much as I do on Instagram, but just the occasional posts and occasionally doing that, it's been really helpful.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

That's really helpful to hear. We actually haven't had someone come on here and talk about using LinkedIn, which is why I kind of wanted to ask you that question and see how are you using it. That's really good to know that you're kind of using it like a social media network just to like warm up people and get to know them more organically. And even just like shooting them, that connection request definitely like gets their attention right away. So that gives me some ideas of what I can do. Like I think I don't do a good enough job of looking at all the corporate clients I've worked with in the past and actually adding them on LinkedIn and make sure we're connected for the future. So those are some great tips.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

and it's obviously, it's one of those things where you never know who will accept, who will actually connect with you or reach out, but it's still just like, I'm here. I'm friendly, happy to chat. Another thing that's been super helpful with events and like building momentum there. Is I feel like with weddings you have styled shoots. But with events I've had a couple, like, you wanna be really strategic about it just to make sure it would be like the clientele that would be really more likely to reach out to you in the future. But I have done a couple events where it's more of just like trade or like, that are not paid to be like, long story short, usually it'll be like, we'll give you article in a magazine that we host I did this for Houston Luxury Magazine for example. But because I did that event and built that relationship with that planner and they saw me in action that's also led to several other events and it's been more than worth the, that event because it was kind of, you chalk it up to like marketing or whatever and then just, it still helps build those relationships. It's just that interacting with people, showing'em what you do and then that really like sticks with people.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

I love that. I forget Chatan. What episode was it? Where we talked about

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

that. The free work, it was a pri, it was a vast

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

I was gonna say.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

About when it makes sense to do free work. That's a perfect example.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah. Yeah.'cause I feel like we do get so like, oh no, you should always charge, you should always be charging for your services. But there are times where like, if you are going into this strategically and you know, like, this is actually going to come back to me tenfold. Like, I'd rather get the, I don't wanna use the, the word exposure, but like I'd rather get the connections or the experience or whatever the case may be for something that's a bit discounted or if it's free in exchange for X, Y, and Z. So I love that you brought that up and shared that.'cause Yeah, I immediately went to that when we talked about that in that episode.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

You can also get really good pictures that you can then show, like, you can hire me for this people. This is the kind of thing I do like, if it's like a really fun setup,

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

And I feel like styled shoots are very, you know, quote unquote normal within the wedding industry. But you're right, like there's not necessarily something like that within the. Event space. So it's like, well, how do you get that content, make those connections, get the experience when you are just starting out? If there isn't necessarily like that entry point that there is with style shoots, like I did a ton of style shoots when I was first getting started,

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

And it was such a great way to make connections And get portfolio content

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Mm-hmm.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

and with portfolio content, honestly, like my, like my profile picture for Instagram is I did a, a bow live event at a style shoot. Like I brought some of the other stuff. I was like, can I set up a table and just like engrave wine glasses for the vendors here, like the photographers and the vendors. And then they were like motivated to be like taking really great shots of me while I engrave their glasses.'cause they were waiting for me to engrave a glass for them.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Oh,

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

that's

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

awesome.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

So several of those photos are like. Because I did a live event style at a style shoot kind of thing, so sometimes there's some overlap. I feel like especially with live event wedding calligraphy gain more traction and momentum, there's creative ways that you can incorporate that in.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

absolutely. I did one similar where it was like a vendor, a wedding vendor, happy hour, and they had me on site to do the live foiling as like part of like the entertainment for the night. And it was also something where like I donated my services, but I got photos in return and everything you're talking about. Lots of creative ways to kind of get like get your business out there and get, I think there is something magical when people see you doing it live too. Like I get so many comments that are like, oh, you're literally doing this by hand. Like, I don't know, for some reason maybe that doesn't come through when I post a video

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

yeah.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Has to be when they see you actually sitting there doing it by hand.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Every event.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah. I feel like people just don't like really make that connection until they are seeing it in person. Or like if they see a photo of, you know, your work. Just like your work, find a finished product. I. I feel like they can easily think, especially in today's world, like, oh, that's a cricket, or that's digitally designed, or whatever the case may be. And it's like, no, it's my hand.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

It was not a laser eng graver. It was not

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Right. So switching gears a little bit I know that you've taken courses, you've taken XO Chen's course, you've joined business programs, you've hired coaches. I would love to hear a little bit about what made you say yes to investing in yourself when it's easier or it's cheaper to DIY. Certain things, like, I feel like there's always kind of that tossup of like, do I invest in this or do I just figure it out how to do it myself? And you kinda have to weigh the pros and cons. So, yeah, would love to hear about what made you say yes to investing in yourself versus DIYing.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Honestly, I know how like upfront it seems like it's cheaper to DIY it, but it's really not like, I mean, there's so many more mistakes you make when you're trying to DIY. It also just the cost of time, like the amount of time it takes to try to figure it out all yourself, especially when there's so many different voices out there. It's not organized or structured. Like I did Chen's course and one thing that is like incredible about that is that it's so organized. Like, I mean, she's got like the timestamps for anything you wanna go back and listen to or learn about. There's very well-defined action items and you know, like it helps so much to not have to like go find all that information yourself. It's also got like a good flow to where it's like,'cause I remember when I was first getting started, there's so much where it's like, what do I work on first?

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Right.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

A lot of times you see people who've had their businesses for years and they had, they look like they have it all together. And we talked about that parasol project before, and I still remember that client was like, can you print out a receipt for me? I was like, how do I make a receipt? I don't have a cash register. I don't know how, how would I do that? And so we had to like try to figure that out. And so, I mean, just there's so many little bits and pieces that you just don't think about. And so having somebody kind of guide you through that process saves you so much time. And also. Helps you get like that direction, right? I feel like a lot of times, especially at the beginning, I felt like I was going in all the directions at once and so I wasn't like moving anywhere'cause I was just trying to go everywhere at once. And so having that guide, having that direction saves you like a lot of time and stress. And I mean, having a business is gonna be stressful anyways, right? But if you have the right people kind of guiding you and directing you, makes all the world, it makes a huge difference. And so, like I noticed, like looking back on my business, I've noticed there's been a very, a big correlation between what I invest in my business and how much I get outta my business. And I mean, there's, you wanna be strategic about it and think about what's best for your business at that time, but it, it really makes a huge difference.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

And I think some of the challenges you described are like, so, so relatable for many, if not all of us, just the whole like, what do I, what is the first thing I do? Okay, now what is the next thing I do? I, I do think that one of the biggest challenges as entrepreneurs, especially when we get started, is just feeling like we have to do everything at once. And then you get caught up in that overwhelm and that turns into inaction. And so, like you said, that's, I'm so happy to hear what you said about the courses. That's what exactly I was hoping to do is kind of create a map for people, like a roadmap that they can walk through. And you're definitely one of the people that I feel like I see you very intentionally investing in yourself. So I love hearing that from you. That's like when you make those intentional investments, you see them come back to you and benefit you and benefit your business.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

I couldn't agree with you more that we think in our minds it's cheaper to DIY, but it's really not. And time is actually our most valuable asset, in my opinion. It's not money. And especially in a service-based business like ours, where you know, we are being paid to be somewhere for X amount of hours or to sit and create this whole suite of wedding details, whatever the case may be. And so if you can buy back your time by investing in, you know, a course or a program or hiring the coach that's going to give you that clarity to take that maybe imperfect and messy action, but to just get out of your own way and take that action, I feel like that investment is always going to be worth it. So, I mean, we're both big proponents of investing in yourself too. Heck, we did a whole episode on that one as well, but

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah, and I think we're both in programs right now too, to

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yep,

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

specific goals. So we're also investing in people that we're learning from, which I also think benefits the people that learn from us. So, yeah.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Absolutely. Yeah.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

And one thing I wanna bring up too is just on what your focus is or what you're trying to accomplish, you'll invest in different ways, right? Like when you're first getting started, I feel like your core is like so, so helpful in like laying that foundation, laying that groundwork. I feel like when I first got started, it was really tricky to figure out the backend of the business because you see what people show on social media. You see what's happening in the front, but you have no idea how to like walk. And I feel like Elaine, I believe that your course also, like with that customer journey, right? And having that amazing client experience. I feel like those are a lot of things that are not as visible or not as shown like, and so getting help with that, getting guidance on that makes a big difference. Or even if it's courses on like improving your skills whether it's like with calligraphy or engraving or any of the things. Or even just last year I did a coaching course for like learning how to sell better and learning how to different things like that.'cause that's not something I got into calligraphy knowing how to do. so it really does make a huge difference to either invest in like, people who have been there and are like, do what you do like with calligraphers investing in either or both of you. Or even just people who are like in the general industry, but have a lot of sales experience kind of a thing.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah, I mean, tell me if this is how you feel, but like I feel like you're taking the things you learn and you're still applying in a way that's like true to you, like you took the sales class, but when you're talking to us about sales, you're still doing it in a way that's really focused on relationships and connection, but you're still taking what you learn probably from that salesperson and applying it and infusing it in those conversations. Right.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

definitely. I feel like I'm kind of one of those like serial course buyers. I've bought a lot, of course. And so if anyone ever has like questions about a course, there's a chance I'd probably take it. But I feel like it's one of those things where I kind of collect the bits and pieces that like feel true to my business and what I'm trying to set up. Or also we're just like all in different circumstances with different situations with like outside of what? Outside of our businesses and with our businesses and just locations and just what our focuses are. And it really just makes a big difference to like, make it true to you. Like take what you need to do or take what you're learning and figure out how do I wanna use this?'cause sometimes you'll just apply it and then other times it'll just spark ideas for other things that you can try.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah, take what you need and leave the rest. I love that. And let's go back to this idea that you're kind of a serial course buyer or you're always looking to learn. Let's talk about the balance between learning and taking action, because I think sometimes we can get consumed with like free webinar, free guide, free, like downloading everything, and we could get kind of lost in all the learning and not actually executing and implementing it in our business. So how do you balance the learning and the execution?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

I feel like when I first got started, it was a lot of like the webinars and a lot of like the YouTube watching and different things like that. I feel like a big thing that really helps is kind of knowing the direction you're wanting to go in your business, and then also sometimes it's been, I need to learn this because clients are asking for this right now. And I'm just, it's kind of putting that fire like one example is when I first, I. Did calligraphy, I did the brush pen calligraphy, but I'd never done pointed pen calligraphy. And I had somebody who was reaching out, who was wanting me to do gold ink on handmade paper, and you cannot do that with brush pen. And so this, I had like over a month and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna learn pointed pen. I already know how to do brush pen and we'll just like use that time. And then I just really just like in and like learned it so I could do, do it well, but you also need to know when you like don't have time to learn it or you won't be able to do a good job because you really wanna reflect well and have a good end result. I feel like it's also been really helpful to either have action items with the courses that you do or to have like a group of people that you're working on the course with. For example, like the logos calligraphy course, like when there's like a set time or if I remember right Elaine, it seems like with your course you have like a group of people who start all together and you're working through it together and you can hold each other accountable. I think that's super helpful. So I think whether it's like having people who hold you accountable, whether it's like having like a schedule that kind of has like deadlines to kind of work on things.'Cause honestly I do have several courses that I have not worked on yet. there waiting for me. I will get to them eventually, hopefully, but the ones that I really work through and do a lot of times are the ones that have like those deadlines or it's like that community that we're working on it together that kind of help hold you accountable.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah. I feel like we all, we all have that course graveyard that we are guilty of, I feel like, of just signing up for things, whether it's freebies or the downloads. But I really like how you're talking about just like being really in tune with either what you kind of currently need in this season or what even your clients are asking for, and using that as a guiding, kind of a guiding light, I guess, to see like, what should I be digging into right now? Because there is always, I mean, we're just in a world where like we have so much information coming to us all the time, all at once. There's so many amazing things that we can be signing up for and doing and it's so hard not to get that si shiny. Object syndrome and be like, I wanna do all of it now. And so I think just like you said, being really in touch with like, where am I actually at? What do I actually need? Or what do my clients actually need? And just constantly coming back to those, those three questions, I guess to kind of be, like I said, your guiding light, your North Star, whatever you wanna call it, and like, where is my focus going?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah, so sometimes even it's just like planning it in,'cause it's hard to make time to do that when you've got all your client work

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Mm-hmm.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

That. But breaking it into smaller pieces and like, I try to not like buy too many courses right now'cause I'm like, I've got plenty to work through. I've got. So kind of take a hold on that and just working through what I have and like putting that into action.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

If anybody needs some tips on this action piece, we did a CEO action episode, that has strategies around productivity and time blocking and all of that. And I've been implementing a lot of those strategies in my own business and it's been really helpful. But I completely agree about like also just putting things on the back burner that you don't have time for. I know a lot of people don't know this about me, but I actually don't engrave. And it's been something that's like kind of on my list. Like I'm always like, oh, everybody engraves. Like I really wanna engrave. I know I can get more opportunities if I engrave, but that's also something that I know I just, like, there are other things I want to advance in my business more than that right now. And I have to choose those things over learning a new skill right now. So I think it's really that like sometimes difficult prioritization'cause it is hard when we are multi-passionate and wanna do all of the things.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Or when you see all these other calligraphers doing these other things, like I have a fashion illustration course that I have not had a single module in. I'm like, oh, all these people are learning fashion, illustration. I should learn this too. But

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

It's never ending, like hot

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Yeah.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Painting. Yeah.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

So before we wrap up this like investment talk, we would love to hear what is one investment that you've made that has really had a ripple effect throughout your business?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Honestly, I don't know if I could say just one specific one, but I could probably list like once at the different stages. Right. So honestly I feel like XO Chen's pro calligrapher course was like the best investment when you're just getting started, right? When you're trying to lay that foundation, when you're trying to set up a good backend. That made like, that was like a lot of the information I've been looking for and couldn't find at least not well laid out like that. So I felt like that was like a huge thing in that stage.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Happy to hear that. I did not tell Jen to say that when we put this question out. I did not know what her answer was gonna be, but I'm really happy to hear that. Thanks, Jen.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

sure. And I felt like when I was getting into live events, two that were super helpful, really good investments for me, like the first one I had done was the luxury letter lettering course that still and Jody put out. And then also the Craft Academy has been huge with learning and getting that confidence and being a live event artist because before that I kind of felt almost like an imposs like imposter syndrome really bad. But being a part of it kind of helped me be like, oh, I have a live event artist. I'm part of this group. And then also just like that community of people building each other up and supporting. And then there's also just a lot of really helpful resources through like the information they provide and then also just the coaching calls and things like that. And then also just, I feel like a co, I did a really big coaching program last year that I feel like really has been helping Level Up, like how, how I interact with clients. Just a lot of ways of kind of like having my services be more luxury and a higher touch and just different things like that and just mindset and. adjustments to my website or things like that. So I feel like at different stages and depending on what you need, different ones will be more impactful.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Do you feel comfortable sharing who the coach is

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

so his name's Sam Jacobson, his company is ID Action, and it was,

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

I've heard of him. Yeah.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

he's got a really great podcast. It's called Own Your Business. And it's got so many helpful tips for like websites. Being able to talk to. Another big thing he does is like, there's different categories of client and learning how to talk to them and the way that they like to be sold to, whether they're like a boss type or a dreamer or an analyzer or a relator. Just a lot of different things like that. Ways to like surprise and delight. So just like there's, he gives a lot of really helpful information. The podcast is full of really great stuff, but then also. In like the Mastermind, it was really helpful to like be walked through and be given a lot of resources and help and things like that.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Nice.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Focused on the wedding industry. Right. Because I think he gave a talk at our wipa, one of our Wipa events here, and he, from what I gathered, is just like a lot of, it's rooted in psychology, right? Like human psychology.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yes, definitely. I feel like he doesn't do any like, you know, like that salesy stuff. A lot of it's just like meeting people where they're at, helping them see what they need, helping'em recognize how what you have to offer helps them. And it's very much not like taking advantage of people kind of selling, but really like'em your value and communicating that value and helping'em get what they need and what they're looking for. Even if they didn't know that's what they were looking for, what they needed.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

we can link all of these different programs and investments. So if anybody wants to learn more about it, they can look on the website. Switch gears a little bit and kind of tie it all together into like present day. So you have boys, is that right? So you have four boys and you're running your business. It's kind of all very demanding. Right? Often at the same time. So tell us about how you make it work. you have specific boundaries that you set or like routines that you have? Are there specific like tactics you can share that could help us, like people who are in a similar situation where we just are juggling a lot in addition to our business?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

First set that comes to my mind is like,'cause it kinda makes me think of a balance, but I feel like you're never gonna like get balance, right? So one way I like to view it because I'm. most of us are probably very visual person, so I kind of picture it as like a wobbly stool. And you're never gonna like fully have it like centered, but you kind of have to wobble. It's like a work life wobble where you're kind of balancing, where sometimes you need to lean more into your business and sometimes you lean more into your family and you wanna like not lean too much into one or it'll topple over. Right. And so with some of the boundaries and different things that I set, one example is that I never do events on Sundays and I don't do work on Sundays. Every once in a while if there's like a total emergency or something, or if a client just wants to pick up an item, I'll like put it on my porch or I'll hand it to them like, you know, just something like that. But just having that hard, fast rule makes it so that no matter what, there's at least one day that like I have to do with my family and focus on them. And that has been super hard sometimes because some really cool opportunities to come up on Sundays, and I've just had to say no.'cause I'm like, that is a hard, fast, no rule that I have for myself. But I also feel like it's been huge in helping me avoid burnout is because, especially around like, I mean like maze crazy with events and like Decembers get super crazy and just knowing that there's at least that one day where you like, get a break and get a rest, even though it's a hard boundary to force sometimes. It's been super helpful. I also asked my kids, so my, my boys are ages 9, 12, 14 and 16, so they're very busy stages right now. And when I started, my youngest was four and still at home and not in school and things. So it does make a difference having them at school for a lot of the day. But even still, there's sometimes days where they'll have doctor appointments or they want me to chaperone their field trip or different things like that. I just don't even like touch my business that day. But when I was asking them, I was like, Hey guys, what do I do that like kind of helps you feel loved or helps, helps feel balanced. And so two of the things that they said that they really like or help them feel special still and even when I'm trying to balance things the first one was that I tell them that they get first priority to my calendar. So whenever they have an event coming up, like if they have like an orchestra concert or a play, they need to tell me as soon as they find out so I can get it on the calendar.'cause they get first priority. But they also know that if they don't tell me and I book an event or if I have something else going on, I've already committed to that and I can't come to their thing. even though I'm not able to make it to all their things. They know that they had first priority and that I am willing to put them first kind of a thing. And so that's been big. And then the other thing that they brought up is a lot of times after events, it's kind of the things like hop on social media and start posting stories about the event and start posting things like that. And I think it is more effective if you can do it earlier in the evening and like right after your event. But I usually, as soon as I get home from an event, I try to set my phone aside and focus on them. I'll put my phone down, do bedtime routine with them, spend some time with them, and then later I'll go upload'em. So sometimes my stories don't get posted till like 11 or midnight or whatever, but just putting them first in that situation after I've been gone for a while, it sounds like that's also something that really means a lot to them.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Okay, so first of all, there's no way that you have a 16-year-old. I thought you were gonna say your oldest is like five. I'm shocked right now. You look are too young.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

I got married young and started having kids pretty soon after

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Oh my gosh. That's just so funny. I'm like, oh my gosh. She's a 16-year-old. That's wild.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

He's gonna be a senior in high school this next

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Oh my gosh. Well, also then, like when you were going through all of their ages, I'm like, oh my gosh, Jen really has her hands full. Right? Like, you have

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Boys in your house and you're running your business. I'm like, oh my gosh.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

It's an adventure.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

But what, like, I think I took away from all of this that I find so beautiful is like, there's a lot of like open communication going on, it sounds like in your household, which I just love so much of like, I. Them having to communicate to you, whether it's like schedules or, you know, what are they looking for from you? Because we're also not mind readers at the end of the day. And I feel like you're just setting such strong like foundations for your family, which is also so beautiful in addition to being, you know, a full-time business owner as well. So I just like applaud you all around. I am like just shocked by everything. Oh.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Oh, thank you. One thing that's helpful when my kids were even like littler kind of a thing too, was I would try to like. in an area where they were around. Like they obviously have to be big enough that I knew they weren't gonna just come and like put stuff in their mouth or like knock stuff over or whatever. But like I still have pictures of like working with my 4-year-old where I'm working on signage.'cause that was back when I was doing wedding signage and he's got like a coloring book or working on something next to that way. He feels like he's kind of like with me, but I'm also working. It's much less sufficient when you're working with kids around you than if you're not. So a lot happened at nighttime when they were in bed and I still like don't have super consistent hours. It just kind of depends on the day or like summertime I get less done than I do during the school year when they're at school. But it's fun. It's really great for them to see me like have a passion and like accomplishing things and like working on it. And it's really fun like when they, hear them tell their friends about what I do some of my boys are really into art and they actually told their art teacher about it and she had me come in and teach calligraphy to their art class or like just, it's just really fun to see them like get excited about what I do or telling people about it. Or as my boys have been teenagers, I've actually been able to hire them to be assistants at some of my events, which.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

love that.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Off.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

I love that you're involving them and asking them for what they need, but also like, you know, we hear a lot about nap time, hustle, nighttime hustle. That's also part of the beauty I think, of having our own business is, like you mentioned, taking Sundays off and being able to chaperone field trips. Those are all only possible because we have our own business that we run, that we get to be the boss of. And so it's like a little crazy, a little chaotic, and the stool is very wobbly, but we find the ways that make it work, you know, even if it's not the traditional nine to five. But I just really love that analogy you used too of, or metaphor, the metaphor of the stool. Things are gonna look different every day. And I just love how you kind of like put that into perspective with like, prioritizing the different legs of the stool, but not one too much over the other at any given time. So that's really helpful.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

And then also I think something that's huge for moms to keep in mind is that your capacity is gonna be different than what somebody who has no kids and who does this full time is gonna be like, you just have a different capacity. You have different time to give to your business. And it can be hard sometimes seeing everything that people are accomplishing that are not in the same situation as you. And so I think it's huge to compare it, like to not compare yourself to them and but kind of compare yourself to yourself and like focus on like. Where can I put time in today? How much do I have to give? And just being mindful of that and just being really proud of like what you're accomplishing with, what you have to work with. I feel like, especially for moms who have kids who, like I was speaking to another calligrapher friend even just this morning, and she has little kids who have a hard time going to bed when she's at events or who are teething and won't sleep. You know, just like, it really changes how much time you can put into what you do. And so giving yourself grace and recognizing that, mean, there's certain deadlines you just have to meet and you kind of do what you gotta do. And then a lot of things you're like, I'll get to that later. It's kind of a time and a season thing and just being patient with yourself when you don't have as much time to put into it as you would like to, because other parts of life are really important too.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

I mean, kind of echoing what Shahan just said, it's like we build these businesses to support our lives. And so being okay with that too, like of if you can't put as much into it, or you can put more into it in different seasons, but just like always having that alignment, I guess, for, for lack of a better word. So I feel like you just kind of gave a really great piece of advice of, you know, to other moms not comparing yourself. I mean, I think that that's great advice for anybody.'cause especially in our social media day and age, like we see everybody's highlight reels on Instagram, and it's really easy to look at that part. Like, you know, somebody else who's however many steps ahead of you and be comparing yourself to where they're, and it's like, it's not apples to apples. Like that's your chapter 10. This is your chapter one, like. You can't, you can't make those comparisons. So I feel like that's just a great reminder regardless of where you are at or what's going on in your life. But is there anything else that you would say or like to share to creative moms who might be feeling guilty for wanting to grow their business and also be that fully present mom at home?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

The best advice I can give is that it really is great for your kids to see you working hard and pursuing something that you're passionate about they don't need you 24 7. Like, I mean, you definitely wanna like, connect with them and build those. Like, I mean, you've been talking about relationships, right? They're very, they're like the most important relationship is your family and like, pouring into them and what they need. But a lot of times, like it's really good. My boys have had to learn how to be more independent with me working. Like we've had to be more proactive about initiating chores like in our house. Like I, because I'm like, guys, I cannot keep this house clean by myself while I'm taking care of you guys. And also having a business. So they're getting to help with the dishes, dishes, they're getting to help clean up, they're getting to help do different things. Or they're also having to learn to be more independent with like, putting things in the calendar or texting me when they schedule something or, you know, just different things like that. So I feel like they're learning a lot of really good life skills with me not being there all the time. my goal would be to get to where I can get all my stuff done so I have afternoons more open where I'm not trying to kind of work and also help them and do stuff. even still, like they're seeing like me sticking with something they're seeing when it's like they're seeing what I'm creating, they're seeing what I'm like, that I'm persisting and doing these things. And I feel like it's like so good for them and it's hopefully gonna encourage them to also be like, what am I interested in? What do I wanna pursue? What do I wanna pour into? And just seeing that even if,'cause I mean they know sometimes when it's not fun, they know sometimes when it's hard or like frustrating or things like that. And just seeing that you just keep working at it. And so I feel like as long as like I do have to keep reminding myself sometimes or like check in, like, am I pouring enough into them? Am I putting enough building those relationships, but they don't need nonstop attention. Like that's not even good for them to have that. And so like for us, the big thing is like bedtime. Like whenever I am home, being able to like, take that time to connect or like, another thing that's really helpful that we do in our house is as soon as they come home from school, if I'm home. I'll stop whatever I'm doing, run, give'em a huge hug, check in, like chat with them a little bit, even if it's only like five minutes. And if I have to go right back to working on things. They still had that, like they saw that I was excited that they were home. We had that little connection point. And just talking to them, they sound like they still feel like I'm there. They still feel like I'm present and that they feel loved. And so of my long-winded answer to say that it's good for them to see you working and it's good for them to learn how to be more independent, but also just making sure to spend that time, like you just kind of have to see what they need at that time.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

My like, biggest takeaway from that is that being fully present isn't about being there 24 7. It's about carving out these like key moments to be fully present with them. So like, like you said with the Sundays or like after an event, like you're with them, but you're fully with them. You're not on your phone, you're not, you know, doing emails or whatever the case may be. Like you're carving out these pockets of time. Where they have your undivided attention, and then you have these pockets of time. where your business is going to have its undivided attention. So I love that. I feel like that's like a nice balance, for lack of a better word, there.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

And then as the mom of a two and a half year old, it really filled my cup to hear you talk about this and kind of imagine when Emmett's a little bit older and just hearing that having my business will also benefit him in ways of him learning and growing and maybe being more disciplined in his ways. And even in his young age, I see him already taking an interest in art. My studio doesn't have a door and he just comes in and opens these cabinets behind me and like takes out the scissors and the tape and the stickers. And actually he's really good at using scissors now, so nobody worry about 2-year-old with scissors. But of course I'm supervising, but I just, I see that art and creativity in him and that excitement in him already, even at such a young age. So I couldn't agree with you more, and thank you so much for sharing that.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

And I feel like we're more able to pour into our kids when we're fulfilled and when we're accomplishing things.'cause it can get I mean I was happily a stay at home mom for 13 years before I started my business and but there are days where it feels like, like what did I do? Like I've been busy and moving in all day long and what did I accomplish? And so it's kind of fun still. It's really nice to be able to like create and be able to like have these things. But also still like, I still love being there for my kids. I still love being at home. Like I work from home and I'm. Balancing being a stay at home mom and a business owner, which is tricky sometimes, but I think it's easier to like, pour into them and like have that, like be energized by the things that we're creating and then also use what we're learning and these skills to like also help them and help make their lives better too.

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Yeah. Well this was such a great conversation and so many, so many good insights that you shared with us. Before we wrap up, was there anything else you wanted to share or talk about elaine, was there anything from you?

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

No, I'm just like, Jen, can you give us your skincare routine because you look like.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah, just, I just turned 39, so I'm gonna be turning 40 the year. My son graduates high school next

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Oh, that's awesome. Big year. to celebrate things.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Is Dime Products like, so DIME,

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

Oh, interesting. I always get the ads and I'm like, are these good? Okay,

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

I've never heard of them, but now I know, the second I open my phone, I'm gonna have a targeted ad. So

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

It's listening. Send us the link.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Yeah,

shaochen_1_05-01-2025_122737:

email. Well, Thank you so much, Jen, for being on our show and spending some time with us. We can't wait to share this conversation with our listeners. So can you let them know if they're not already following you, where can they find you on Instagram or your website, or wherever you wanna share with them?

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Sure. So it's pretty much the same across all the boards. My business is, she made it like that and so my Instagram is, she made it like that. Well, I guess my LinkedIn is Jennifer Bowen, but my website is, she made it like that.com. I think Instagram's really the place where I hang out the most and do the interaction and build relationships and love to connect with people.

alane_1_05-01-2025_142737:

Well, thank you so much for joining us and sharing your time with us today.

jen-bowen_1_05-01-2025_132737:

Thank you for having me. It was such a pleasure talking with both of you, and I love what you're doing with the podcast, so it's definitely an honor to be a part of it today.

People on this episode

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Alane Gianetti

Host
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Shaochen Wu

Host