CQ: How do I know this b usiness is legit?

In today's Client Question episode, Holly and Maddy discuss the common papers, procedures and practices that can help you identify a business that is operating within legal boundaries.  We want you all to find an excellent therapist and get your massage therapy in a safe environment. Listen, learn and keep massage in your life.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to the Ethlerage Massage Therapy Podcast. This is Maddie. I'm a wife, a new mother, and self-employed entrepreneur. My business is built around helping people through massage, exercise, and teaching.

SPEAKER_03 0:13

And I'm Holly, a small business owner, deep tissue specialist, and an advocate in your corner. This podcast is for everyone, but LMTs can earn credits by learning from our 20 years of experience.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Our goal is to empower massage therapists to become masters of their trade. We want to set a gold standard for our industry. And if it takes making waves to do that, then so be it. If that sounds good to you, then keep listening. Hello everyone. Welcome to this week's episode of Client Question. What is our question?

SPEAKER_03 0:45

So uh today I think that we should talk about, especially with me, you know, opening my business, uh, a lot of regulations, laws, all that kind of stuff definitely came up. Um I had a lot of people that were like, oh, did you get like number one question? Did you get your business license? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because that's actually really easy to do. Like that's super easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Yeah. So how to recognize, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09

How to how to recognize is this massage practice legal?

SPEAKER_00 1:14

Because I mean, Maddie, what is up with our town? Oh, I I don't know if it's just our town, but it sure has hit us hard. We've had more than a handful, two or three handfuls of massage institutions, facilities, facilities, whatever. Dare I say the word parlor, which I just can't. But these ones are parlor.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

I mean, that's why I These are masseuses working in a parlor. Absolutely. Absolutely. And they got shut down.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

They got shut down finally because of they weren't doing that. They were doing special things, and then they were also involved with human trafficking, which just makes you want to throw up. Yeah. Side note, I hate the words masseuse and massage parlor.

SPEAKER_03 1:57

Well, and uh, yeah, touching on that, uh, maybe if you vocabulary levels.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah, maybe people don't know this, but it's a big slap in the face if you call me a masseuse. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

Back in the day, that was kind of the the coined term for hey, I'm gonna get a happy ending. If I if I go to a masseuse, they will provide that service. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

And you know what? It may not have always like massage was highly influenced by the French when it came to America, and technically the word masseuse is just the French word for massage therapist, but in today's world, in this context, if you call me a masseuse, it implies that I do other things that I don't do. That's some slang. That's some slang. We we don't like that slang around. And just be like, you know, just you just don't call a person that. There's a lot of other words we don't use, and that's just not what we do.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

And for other LMTs out there, I very gently correct people. I do correct them every single time they use that word to like, and they don't mean anything by it. You know, they genuinely think that that's the term. But by all means, LMTs, please feel free correct people because when they do use that term, I want them to know what they're meaning by that. Now that kind of makes me think I had a very interesting, not to me, but to another massage therapist, somebody asked um, because apparently that is some kind of a medical condition. Wow. Um, that somewhere out there, wow, um there's a term for this that it's um like a release of sorts, and people have this thought in their head that it's medically beneficial for them to have that physical release as a part of their treatment. What like a sexual release? Yeah, they think that that's actually get yourself a partner.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Like, uh, we don't do that. Apparently, though, there are some places out there. Now, this is my big thing um between cities, states, all that kind of stuff. I know that here in Washington, we're here in Benton County. Um, we have our rules and regulations. Washington is pretty high up there as far as our standards. Um, there are some states out there that you don't even have to have a license to be operating, to be giving massages, to own a business, to be 100% legal and above the board. Yep. You don't have to have a license in some of these places. Oh, yeah. That's scary.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

I'm pretty sure Idaho's one of them. Um, yeah, for the most part, you know, Holly and I are here in Washington. If you listen to what we're saying and we're going by Washington standards, for the most part, you're gonna be doing what you need to do and possibly much more for your state. But that's your responsibility to look it up and figure it out for your state. But yeah, there's a handful, and um they don't have to go to school. And if you They don't have to go to school, they eat crazy. If you've even listened to just a couple of our previous episodes, you understand the impact that we have on the human body. Yeah, a therapist needs to know what they're doing. Yeah. No, like we can't diagnose and no, we can't treat for certain conditions and stuff, but we need to recognize what we're doing that might impact a person. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

I'm all fired up. That's the importance of being able to look at a business and judge a book by its cover and say, does this look like a legal professional building with professionals working here? Right. Like professional, professional, professional, professional keeps coming up to because there I feel like there's so many ways that you can get around looking professional. You can have a professional-looking building, you can have nice signage and all this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 5:28

Um, but do they have the paperwork on the wall?

SPEAKER_03 5:32

You have to have your license has to be visible, visible, it has to be out on display.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Um your business license as well as your massage license. Yeah, you need to like they need to all be posted very easy for anybody to see when they're walking in.

SPEAKER_03 5:47

And I think that this is pretty interesting, is that it has to have your name on it so that if somebody walks in and they say, Hey, I can see the the name on that license is not the name that you gave me. Why does that information not match? Yeah. Because that can be a thing. They can get falsified documents, they can have somebody's old documents that used to work there. I have been in a place that they did that.

SPEAKER_00 6:12

Insurance fraud. Hey, this is your invitation, listeners. Get nosy. I mean, oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Holy cow, there are so many things that oh, oh, okay. So this, oh, this is borderline for me. What's legal and what's ethical? Oh, because if we're gonna start talking about getting nosy, and like for me, my my big gripe that you know, Maddie, for me, is 50-minute massages. Is that legal? Is that legal when your insurance is paying these kairos or whoever an hour's worth of work, but you're only getting a 50-minute massage.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

Okay, let's break that down, okay? Let's break that down. Okay, this happens in a lot of places. Okay, yeah. You fit you come in, you've scheduled an hour massage, you're getting a 50-minute massage if you're lucky. If you're lucky. And I'm not even gonna get into the fact of how this affects a massage therapist in the workplace. Okay, we're not even gonna touch that. What we're talking about right now is the client themselves, okay? They are going in, and if it's cash or insurance, they are paying for a 60-minute massage, they're getting 50. A, that's not nice. B, that's not legal. That's like false advertising. It's not true. I'm pretty sure that's insurance problem.

SPEAKER_03 7:17

Well, okay, if you're billing the insurance company. If you're billing insurance and you have signed documentation showing four units of what's the code, 9715, I think it is.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Uh 97124 is the one they usually do.

SPEAKER_03 7:30

Okay, so if you see on your insurance paperwork four units of that code, not three, if you see four units and you're getting anything less than 60 minutes of hands-on massage, that is a problem. That's fraud. That's fraud. That's a problem. That is fraud. That is something that the insurance company 100% can come back to that company and they say, give us back our money. You build this 100% incorrectly.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

And I tell you what, I have no shame in um encouraging you all to do that. You know why? Look at your paperwork. Because I am gonna talk about it for a second. What I said I wasn't going to, I'm gonna talk about the the client or the therapist in the workplace. Because when you are going into that setting and getting a 50-minute massage, it's because that establishment doesn't want to waste any time because time is money, right? Well, time is also the time it takes for a therapist to wash their hands, change the sheets, go to the bathroom, have a snack, have a drink of water. And guess what? 10 minutes doesn't really do it.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

10, you know? But that's what these places are doing. They're saying, I'm gonna take that 10 minutes of that insurance payment because I don't want to pay that massage therapist that time to wash their hands, to change the sheets, to disinfect.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Oh man, to disinfect, to disinfect, to disinfect. To disinfect. Oh, there's so much to disinfect. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

Can open worms everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

I can't, I can't, I can't stand this because it's not legal, it's not a legality thing for these places to be disinfecting. No, it's not a legality thing, but should be. Should be. Tell you why.

SPEAKER_00 9:01

That's the other thing too. If you're not giving your therapist enough time to clean, then you're bringing your next person into a place that hasn't been disinfected. I would love it if wouldn't that be causing harm? You'd think so. You'd think so.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

Are we working for doctors? So, my my thing, you say and get nosy. I would love, I would absolutely love this, people. Pay attention before and after your appointments. Actually look at what the providers are doing. If you see that provider, escort a person out and then immediately take another person back in there. Guess what they didn't do? Disinfect. They didn't disinfect, they didn't wipe down a single thing that that person laid on or touched. Yep. And they have been doing that all day, every single day for their entire career. Yeah, ooh, I think pay attention.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

I don't work for the health department, but if we just went in there and took a swab off the face wrap and stuck it in a Peter dish, what do you think it looked like in a couple days? Disgusting. It'd be nasty.

SPEAKER_03 9:59

Do you know why I love massage therapists? Because we use sheets and it's really obvious when they're dirty, when they've been laid on. Any of our linens, if there's even a handprint, a butt print. Oh, I loved that one. Walking into my room and there's a big old butt print on my table. I'm like, yes, somebody was in my room on my table. I don't know what they were doing. I don't know if they were in there sitting on that table for three hours watching TV, or if they just happen to sit down for a second so that they could tie their shoes.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

It doesn't matter, anyways. It's like your client deserves a clean place to be for their treatment. Every single person deserves a clean place. Deep breath, everyone. Ready? Inhale through the nose. Exhale. This is some real stuff that we're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 10:42

Because it's not a legality thing, and it's disgusting that it's not a legality thing. There are so many things that we can say, shut this place down because they're given handies under the blanket. Like, sure, but is that really the worst thing out there right now? I personally I'm on the page. I think that um sex work should be legal. Like, I think everything should be legal. If somebody wants to pay for it, let them, and then just tax the hell out of it.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Well, that's the thing. Um, just because something isn't legal, it doesn't mean that something isn't happening, right? So, ooh, let's get political, let's choose abortion, okay? You take away abortion, you're not taking away abortion. You're taking away safe abortion, right? So, what's gonna happen if you can't control it with laws and boundaries and be there for the person who's getting the abortion, right? Then that person is still gonna get one down a back alley, risking their life, and there's gonna be other things exchanged back there, and then they'll be on the blackmail list, and then you'll have more crime. And I mean like, are we really having to go back to coat hanger days?

SPEAKER_03 11:41

Coat hanger abortions? Is that really what we're getting to? It's disgusting. You got anything to drink around here?

SPEAKER_01 11:49

A little stronger than this water.

SPEAKER_00 11:51

Oh lord. Okay, so legal and ethical. Legal and ethical, big, big difference. Big difference is here, but that's why we're here, Holly. We are here to empower the massage therapist to become a master and to set a gold standard for our trade. We're we're not alone. Um, you know, there's there's a lot of other massage therapists who have started podcasts, Facebook pages, communities, we're here for each other. We're not alone, but Holly and I are here to also be a part of that because we're not there yet as a as an industry. We're not there yet. We're not respected enough. No. But we'll try to get there.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

Um so when you go to one of these places, yeah, and you say, okay, like I want an abortion, you know, like I think it's always kind of shocking to people if they go somewhere. Um, like because I've I've heard this, you know, from people where they're like, I just needed a massage, I didn't care, so I just went to that place. They were open, right? So I just went there and I asked them, and like, I couldn't believe like they just they just started doing the thing and asked me for 50 bucks for it.

SPEAKER_00 12:54

And like, okay, and so okay, a couple things here. Um, I this is your invitation to report them. There you go. Don't just be like, oh, I was uncomfortable and blah, blah, blah. It's actually a very normal thing, though, with psychology when you are taken advantage of sexually. I was gonna say the R-word, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:12

Yeah. Because that when somebody just grabs your junk and starts playing with you, yeah, you are being 100% put in a position where you're like, oh my gosh, I I see being vulnerable like you're not.

SPEAKER_00 13:25

You are, yeah, you're being already in a vulnerable position. Yes. Yeah. In my opinion, that is exactly what that is. And there might be, I mean, there might be the client to go around looking for that. And that's obviously not. And that's obviously not what that is.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

But if you go into one of these places completely not unaware wanting that, yeah, that is not your fault. Do not feel ashamed. Please report these places.

SPEAKER_00 13:47

It's very natural to want to not talk about that, but it's important that you report it. And here's what you do you call the non-emergency number, and you just can you can even be anonymous if you want, but at least do that kind of a report. You can go into you can go into the um police station if you want, give a little interview, um, talk to a therapist. I'm pretty sure therapists are held accountable for some reports that they will help with.

SPEAKER_03 14:15

I know that um what I always suggest to people is actually reach out to the Washington State Massage Board. Massage board. Because they take this stuff super seriously. Yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure cops, they're gonna be like, uh, out of all of the things that I've gotten phone calls for today, you get in touch by a massage therapist. It's not that high up there. So I might get to that later. Right. But massage board uh people, committee members, holy cow, they take this stuff. They will be making phone calls af as soon as they hang up with you. Like that they make that stuff happen. They do not take that stuff lightly.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

And you should be upset. So go ahead and call them once we're upset for you. Make these calls, make them again, talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 14:59

Reach out to us to somebody that will help you because you are not alone. You're not alone. You are not alone, you're not the same. And that is not okay. That is not, and it's not okay for people to be calling themselves massage therapists and doing that.

SPEAKER_00 15:12

Yeah, you know what? It is not okay, and it also makes me really mad. Holly, we have worked really hard to have the title of licensed massage therapist. Yes. And for someone to walk around with a fake sign that says, oh yeah, me too, yeah. It's like, uh no, you didn't. Yes. Did you do 200 massages in class? Did you have 945 hours of schooling? You know, did you have to take a really hard MBLEX exam that almost made you like, yeah, you know, you lost so much sleepover?

SPEAKER_03 15:38

This kind of brings me up to um one of the things I wanted to touch on a little bit. Tell me, tell me is that we've got some states, like I was hitting on before, right? There's some states that you don't have to have a license, you don't have to have clinical hours, you don't have to have any kind of education, any of this kind of stuff. You do have some states where you have to have clinical hours, but you don't have to pass a test. You have um, there's just so many different regulations. Yeah. Um, I've got my my best friend, she moved from here, you know, like we've been saying, really high standards and stuff, to a place with very low standards. And my heart goes out to her because she has all of these credentials, all these hours, all these fantastic she's way up here. And then she's working in a pool that's way down here because their standards are climbing. And she's just gotten like no way to show, well, yeah, I'm better, I'm more qualified. It's really hard when you're doing that kind of thing. So, you know, clients, patients, um the the regular people going to these places, be nosy, you know, Google these people, Google them because you can pull up their names, you can pull up their information. Um, I know when you Google me, my NPI number comes up, my national provider information. Like it's it's like I have been listed out there as a provider for years. Yeah. You know, and so just a simple Google search. If you're thinking about going to a place, Google search the name. You know, just try and pull up any information that you can. Just really simple stuff can really help you kind of verify if it's um I actually really like Google itself, um, going through the process of trying to verify I am a legitimate business. There are so many steps that they actually go through as far as verifying that I am a real person and that I'm not like a fake business coming up with a, you know, like I'm just it like it does a lot to try and verify me as a real human. And so um, if it doesn't show up as a Google business, if there's no reviews anywhere, no Yelp, anything like that, I would hesitate. I wouldn't, I probably would I wouldn't go there. You know, however desperate you are, I'm pretty sure you can find another place.

SPEAKER_00 17:51

You can. I know you can because I can I could recommend them to you right now.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

Um is it worth your embarrassment of potentially having to make these reports? And like is it is it worth you having that memory, you know, for the rest of your life?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

You know, like well, and not only that, but like what we're talking about as far as establishing like a standard so that like people like us don't have to go somewhere else and then work with like slime balls, right? Right. So, but that a big part of that, I don't know if it might even be the biggest part, is our clients. It's the demand. Where's the demand? Demand better service, demand professionals. Yeah, don't don't don't let them get away with that.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

Yeah, don't support a business that's slimy. I've had that happen where people like that blew my mind, where he was telling me about a real medical-based, um, like a physical therapy type thing where he was disrobed, like full on. Like, like take the clothes were taken off of him. And I was just like, that's report that. That is okay. If you feel at all uncomfortable, if if any of your boundaries have been pressed, yeah, not even walked past, okay? If they just came up to uncomfortable, report it because we're not gonna lose our license or you know, like have some kind of big fees or anything, but they're gonna come to us and they're gonna say, Hey, what kind of standards are you using? What where did you think that that's appropriate? Yeah, right. Maybe you need to get some more education.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Maybe you need some education. If you um are working at, or yeah, sorry, working, if you are getting your treatment from an actual business that's legal, they're also gonna have something called a compliance manual, where all of those boundaries and rules and regulations are at, you know, and if nothing else, they'll be on the intake form or somewhere on the website, but somewhere they'll have some standards that say, hey, this is what we intend to do with our services, these are the boundaries we have, we want you to respect them, our therapists respect them. Like a legal business puts it all out there. Yeah, yeah. A legal business will have a lot of paperwork for you. If you're uncomfortable, walk out. Yes. You don't have to do that whole hour massage. If you're like, this is weird, they're getting way too close to my butt, they're getting way too far at my legs, she's touching my boobs. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm putting it all out there. But if it's like, if those things are happening, you'd be like, okay, this massage is over. I'm done. I'm getting up now. Bye. No, I'm not paying for it. I'm gonna call the cops. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:23

I think that that's just kind of my main thing that I would love to really hit home. Just make those reports reach out to somebody. There are there are people out there that take this stuff very seriously. We want a better standard.

SPEAKER_00 20:36

Yes, we do. And and a big part of that comes from you guys. So be nosy, take action, and don't settle for crummy massage therapists.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Don't settle. Don't settle. Don't settle. Good ones are out there. Just keep looking.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

And support us because we work hard to get where we are.

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Yes. Keep looking. We're out there. Well, I mean, did you have anything else that you wanted to talk about as far as legality? I mean, I know that my whole thing is obviously sex work and that kind of stuff in the business, but um, legality, there's a lot of things that you can be doing that are illegal as far as um improperly filing your insurance um forms and all that kind of stuff. Yeah. Um, there's the gray areas, the ethical kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Um but the ones that compromise people's safety is probably, you know, most important and most obvious.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

I think that that's the biggest one. Because I think that that's when people really care about if it's legal or not. You know, if somebody can help you and like let's say it's your your friend and they gave you a massage, and they don't need a license.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

And your neck feels so much better.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Yeah, you don't you don't need the paperwork and all that kind of stuff to get help.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

No, but they probably aren't like setting up a shop and claiming to be a therapist either.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

And that's there's where the line is. That's where the line is, and that's where we in what we're trying to do with our podcast is we just want to call out this stuff.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yes, we're calling it out, we're talking about it. We want uh to empower not the therapist, not just even the therapist, but our clients too. Our clients. Yeah, educate you guys on what how things should be because you deserve good services.

SPEAKER_03 22:20

Thanks for listening to another episode. If you enjoyed today's show, don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review so other people can find us too.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Hey LMTs, don't forget your credits. We offer this show to make education accessible to you. Every LMT needs to maintain their license by completing continuing education. Click on the link in the show notes or visit our website to claim the credits that you need.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

And if you want to contact us, you can find us on Facebook, Instagram, or the website at FLORageMassage Therapy.com. And as always at Eff Larage, we've got your back.