Ep. 108 You're Not Broken, It's the Food With Julieanna Hever, MS, RD, CPT

Julieanna and Lauren talk about the concept of healthspan versus lifespan, the mechanisms of aging, the importance of a plant-based diet, and the role of phytonutrients. Then they get into a deep conversation about new evidence that women do need extra protein as they age. This is brand new information and the first time that Julieanna is speaking about this evolving topic. This is a lively conversation that covers the topic of marriage and matchmaking, to gratitude, to the six daily threes to help you get all the nutrients you need to live a long and healthy life.

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01:27 Journey to Plant-Based Nutrition
05:21 The Evolution of Plant-Based Diets
09:52 The Choose You Now Diet
14:23 Understanding Aging and HealthSpan
15:46 Understanding Healthspan vs Lifespan
16:48 The Mechanisms of Aging and Inflammation
18:58 The Importance of a Plant-Based Diet
19:17 Phytonutrients and Their Benefits
21:59 Rethinking Protein Needs
33:13 The Concept of Hara Hachibu and Eating Mindfully
35:53 The Impact of Ultra-Processed Foods
40:22 Understanding Metabolic Winter
44:22 The Role of Methionine in Health
47:32 Advice for Aging Well and Beyond

Transcript

0:00

Hi, friend. This week is an encore episode with Health Span dietitian Juliana Hever. We discuss health span versus lifespan because who wants to live for a long time in an incapacitated state? We also talk about the hot button topic of protein as we age. I chose to rerun this particular episode because Juliana gives us real scientifically backed information about aging well. And we have so many new listeners. since this episode first aired nearly two years ago, that some of you might have missed it. But even if you heard it once, it bears repeating. But first, this episode is brought to you by Grand Teton Ancient Grains. If you eat pasta, bake, or love grain bowls, why not choose the most nutritious grains you can? That's why I love Grand Teton Ancient Grains. They grow and mill ancient grains like Eincorn, Quinoa spelt and millet on their family farm and they never use pesticides, herbicides, or glyphosate. Plus, harvest season is almost here, so fresh eincorn flour, grains, and pasta are on the way. Head to ancientgrains.com and use code Healthy10 for 10% off your purchase. That's Healthy10 for 10% off your purchase at And now, HealthSpan dietitian Juliana Hever. Juliana Hever is a renowned plant-based dietitian, author, and speaker, widely recognized for her expertise in nutrition and health. With a passion for promoting a whole food plant-based lifestyle, she has dedicated her career to educating others about the benefits of this diet for personal health and environmental sustainability. Juliana is the author of several influential books, including The Vegetarian Diet, The Idiot's Guide to Plant-Based Nutrition, and The Choose You Now Diet. But today we will dive into one of her most eye-opening books, The HealthSpan Solution. Please welcome Juliana Hever. Hello, hi. Hi, hi, Lauren. Thank you so much. Thanks for being here. just, I've been wanting to talk to you forever. I think you're just this gorgeous shining light in the world. Thank you, that's very sweet. I'm very excited to talk with you. I just wanted on a personal note, just talk about some happy news. You just got married, right? ~ congratulations, I did. Finally found the love of my life. muzzle. I'm so happy. Thank you. Thank you. Where did you meet him? the old fashioned way online, believe it or not. Yes, old fashioned way. my gosh, Yes. Yeah, no, I would have never met him because he's just not in my world at all. that's. he's extraordinary. He's not on social media. He's not online. was just like, got so grateful. I'm so grateful that I found this perfect human to spend~ the rest of my life with. that's so good. So when you met, was it like love at first sight or what was the experience? there were sparks. There were sparks. I had such a roller coaster before, like I won't go into the weeds, but it was really, really rough road for me. And then I remember at one point, like right before I met him, I was like, okay, I'm never settling. I'm not going to settle. This is it. And that's when he came into my life. I kind of had this like shift, this energetic shift, I think. And the first date, it was like, my gosh, it was like, he's a mate. I couldn't believe it was real. And I still, it's been almost a year and a half. I still can't believe he's real. And then I found him finally. you my God, that's so crazy. So this is like not a widely known thing, but I used to work at a dating service when I was in college. And then I owned a singles magazine. This is like prehistoric times. You had to like write a letter or call an 800 number to answer a personal ad. That's how long ago this was. And then I had a matchmaking business called Eight Friends Out. And so we'd match up four men and four women and take them on a group blind date. And my Jewish mother was like the, you know, chaperone. It was hysterical. It was so funny, but it was very, you know, we were responsible for a lot of marriages. And I know, I know. I, ~ It's so hard to meet people, especially now. That's incredible. Yeah. And so I always love to hear how people meet, but more often than not, now it's online. And like, this is how prehistoric it was. I remember match.com came to me. This is probably the late nineties. And they were like, we want to buy your business. We're going to start, you know, putting all dating online. And I'm like, what do you mean put dating online? What are you talking about? I was like, you guys are on drugs, whatever. Isn't that crazy? Gosh, so much has changed with all of that. Mm-hmm. So some people have vision and some do not, but anyway. It's impressive. Yeah. That's so cool that you're doing that.~ well, well congratulations. Really happy for you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay, so you're a plant-based dietitian and it seems like, how long have you been a plant-based dietitian? I always go back to my daughter. when she was born, so 19 plus years, 19 and a half years. Wow. Wow, okay, but they probably, I know, right? It's a long time. They probably didn't have a plant-based nutrition certificate back then or degree back then. There was no such thing. So back then T. Colin Campbell coined the term whole food plant-based Right. and it became a thing, but it was very, very like, everyone's like, what are you, what are you talking about? And so I call myself Plant-Based Dietitian. That's my website, plantbaseddietitian.com. And when I was asked to write my first book right around that time, they hired me to write the Complete Aids Guide to Vegan Nutrition. and I got the job and everything, but midway through it, that's when Bill Clinton had his heart attack and then Sanjay Gupta and Dr. Esselstyn and Dr. yeah. Dean Ornish were on CNN and they were talking about this thing called Plant So I did a petition to my publishers and my agent's like, honey, they never changed a title. But I'm like, no, no, no, this is gonna be a thing. Plant Based is a way to describe this. It's an inclusive definition. And I did this whole pitch to my publishers and they changed the title to Plant-Based Nutrition. wow. And I think that was the first, I think, I was told that it was the first book that had that in the title because now it's ubiquitous. It's become everywhere. Like you can go to a fast food restaurant, Yeah. you see plant based on the menu. So it's evolved enormously since then. And it's kind of exciting because that was kind of the intention. Yeah, what made you decide to want to be a plant-based nutritionist or dietitian? well, that's a good question. That's a long evolution. It started when I was really young. Like it started with me wanting to become a dietitian and personal trainer and all of that way back when I was a little girl and I was dancing and my dance teacher told me to cut out my snacks. And then I was on this lifelong journey to understand diet and weight loss and body image. And that's where my real passion is. But I was reading everything I I could get my hands on again before online. So, you know, back in the old dark ages and we had to read books and Yeah. go to libraries and stuff like that. And I stumbled across John Robbins book, Dye for a New America. And that was the first book that connected nutrition or food to nutrition, health and the environment and the animals. And when I read that book, I was like, this is this crazy, like blew my mind. So I started that journey way back when I was probably, I think it was 16 or something when that book came out. And then fast forward, I became a personal trainer from being an actress and then I became a dietician. I went to grad school for seven years. And I remember there were little clues that popped up during my grad school education and my internships where I was like, whoa, this is interesting. You know, the dairy industry sponsored so much of the education or the food expo at the American, what was the Academy of, what was it? It used to be American Dietetics Association, but now it's Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics. I went to one conference and I could believe the expo when I walked in and it was like, food industry on display, know, like the fast food industry had the biggest booth, the sugar industry, the cereal industry. I was like, my gosh, this is loaded, so loaded. So was seeing all this stuff kind of evolve. And in my mind, I'm like, there's something more to this. Like this doesn't seem, you know, kosher if you will. Like there was so many questions I had. Yeah. And so after that, you know, became a dietitian and I was about to start but then I had babies. And so was home, I ended up just... having to stay home and I was reading more and I just started, that was it. I changed my diet finally and I started reading more and that was it. just, that was it. wanted to scream it from the rooftops that this is the most health promoting way to eat that we've ever seen in the literature. Mm-hmm. That always just kills me when you walk into something. Or like even if you look on like the American Diabetes Association website and it's sponsored by like Kentucky Fried Chicken and you know, it just blows my mind. You know, things like that. So I always hope that people will piece together for themselves, but in case they don't, then we're here to give them a reminder. Yeah, the problem is so systemic. starts all the way up there and politics and where the money is and where the information is coming from originally. But the problem is it has trickled down and the way we're trained, Mm-hmm. like the way I was training grad school and internship and the way doctors are trained, they don't have that information. I wasn't given that information. I learned so much, so much more. I got the fundamentals and I'm so grateful for my education, Right. but it helped me look at the science and the actual piece it together now. but you still go to a physician and they tell you, need medication or diet doesn't work. I mean, there's so much misinformation still. And now we've added this whole huge enormous complex of social media where Mm-hmm. everyone's an expert, everyone's saying all sorts of stuff and everyone's even confused, I think than ever. Yeah, I think that that's true. I think that people are really confused. you know, and you're right, like you could be on TikTok and now you're an expert, you know, because you have a million followers. Yeah, I lost 10 pounds. Yeah, I've lost 10 pounds. So this is how I do it. And this is the right way to do it or like, This is it. yeah, yeah, it's amazing. It's amazing how that's changed. Yeah. I'm a little I'm worried about it. I am too. But that's okay. So I'm glad you're here so we could kind of sort through some of this. I know you have other books that choose you now diet, which, you know, I want to, well, let's just talk about that one for a tiny bit. Because I think that that's, that's good. Well, they're all good. But you, you what are the basic tenets of the choose you now diet? This was my latest book. This was kind of like my heart on a book because it was like the first time I got to use my voice and talk from my story. And the tenants are I've done mostly weight loss transformations. I've done a lot of transformations and also weight loss is always paired, almost always, not always, almost always paired with conditions that are related to excessive weight and bad diet. So cardiovascular disease, type two diabetes, you know, all the cardio metabolic diseases that are very overly present today. So I take people through these incredible transformations, but it's not just diet. I feel like whole food plant-based diet was like the first thing, like eat more plants. That's tenant number one. Tenant number two is dealing with this crazy world we live in. And I think this is where my passion lies is because I've had all, work with clients one-on-one and we get into like relationships and experiences and psychology. It's unbelievable how many associations we make between what we eat and why we eat and everything in our life. Mm-hmm. Our families, our relationships, how we were brought up, our culture. I talked about this in my, that was what my TEDx talk was about many, many years ago. And I can't believe how much it's evolved now to watch the deep, deep seated belief systems that we have, that we don't even realize we have. So that's a big core of the Choose You Now diet is like standing in your truth and taking care of you no matter what. know, putting on your oxygen mask before you help others around you because, you know, especially as women, I work with mostly women. I think most of my clientele are women, probably at least 80 % of my clients are women. And we put everyone else first, you know, especially if you're a mother, you know, you're putting everyone first and like you're taking care of everyone around you, but like you need to be the best version of yourself to take care of other people. So diet is number one cause of early death and disability in the world, which I find so empowering because that means, you you are quite literally what you eat and you get to decide what you put in your body and who you are and how your cells are going to, you know, renew every year, basically. So I feel like the underlying psychology and sociology is more important than the actual food itself. Obviously I'm a dietitian, I'm passionate about the nutrition and that stuff. But I feel like breaking through and finding yourself within this crazy world is really exciting and really challenging and profound. What are the six daily threes? Okay, so that I started, I don't remember how many years ago, but I was basically like a way to prioritize food. So I tell everyone, eat a diet based on vegetables, fruits, whole grains, legumes, mushrooms, nuts, seeds, herbs, and spices in infinite tasty combinations. But then people go, well, what does that look like on a day-to-day basis? Well, so then I came up with this mnemonic called the six daily threes, which you could find on my website, plantbaseditician.com. I have like the graphic and a description of it. And it's the six food groups that are nutritionally unique. that you wanna try to prioritize every day. So six food groups, three servings each. One is leafy green and cruciferous vegetables, because they are the most health promoting foods on the planet and they get the most nutritional bang for your caloric buck. And then the other colored vegetables, the reds, oranges, yellows, whites, all those other vegetables. And then the third one is fruits. Fourth one is legumes. So beans, lentils, peas, hummus should be a food group. And then soy foods like... tofu and tempeh, and then nuts and seeds, know, one to two ounces or 30 to 40 grams a day of nuts and seeds have incredible cardio metabolic benefits and some unique nutrients like L-arginine and vitamin E that are just kind of harder to find elsewhere. And then I used to have exercise and physical activity as the sixth one, but I changed it when I read all the research on mushrooms and how potent they are for immune function and you know, your microbiome and all these things. I include mushrooms and it seems like three different species a week is a good goal for getting your mushrooms in. that's good because you know, I try to eat a lot of mushrooms, but I feel like I gravitate towards the same ones and I'll see. Sometimes I get intimidated because some of them look funky and I'm like, all right, can I work with that? What is, I mean, I have and it's all, it always ends up being fine, but it does get like, you know, lion's mane gets a little intimate, but that's delicious. I mean, it ends up being good. Yes! So for, if you're like me and you get a little scared of mushrooms, different varieties, just, just take a chance. It's. It's not as bad as you think. You can't screw it up too much. Yeah, they're fun. You can't screw it up too much. Yeah, they absorb flavor really well and they just have different textures Right. so you can do all sorts of things with them. So they're fun to play with. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, I get scared too. Hahaha! Like the trumpet mushrooms, I'm like, my God, what is this? But it's easy, you can make it into a sandwich, I try to make them into like BLTs or you know, there's a lot of ways to work them in. Yeah, you could peel them lengthwise and make them into like noodle-y things. You could take like, I'm obsessed with the lion's mane too, yeah! because it's like this little spongy thing. So that just kind of takes up all the different, but I like to just mix and match and throw them in a pan and just, you know, with, know, yeah, Just saute them. they're so easy and fun. Yeah. Yeah, and they're so good for you. Okay, Yes, you're so good. let's get to the star of the show here. What is aging? This is out of your HealthSpan book. Can you tell us a little bit about, Gah. I know it's a big question, but what's happening when we age? It is a big question, but it is, I actually shifted, even shifted my website because I think plant-based is now, it's been there, been there, done that. Now I'm, now I'm a health span dietician because I really think this is what Okay. we need to focus on. It's what I'm going through too. And we're all aging, every, everyone's aging, Right. but I'm at that point where, know, point in my, my life where things are really shifting and it's just kind of very interesting to look at from that perspective. Yeah, well actually so aging is... before we talk about aging maybe we should say what's healthspan versus lifespan. Maybe that's more important to start with. Let's do that. That's a great question. So lifespan is how long you live and health span is how long you live well. So I always say you want to live longer. Mm-hmm. You don't want to live longer because so many people now, Right. I don't remember the statistics off the top of my head, but so many people are living so much longer with disease and disability Yep. and they're just not living their best life. And who wants to live like that? You want to like have this life filled with, you know, vitality and cognition and joy and you know, being your best self and then like fall asleep and that's it and go and that's the end of your life, Yes. no matter when that is. So it's not really how long you live, it's how well you live. And so that's what health span is, Yeah. Okay. is how many healthy years, vital years that you have. And aging is all sorts of things. Okay. It's basically what's happening, but there's all these different mechanisms by which we are studying. There's, you know, and different mechanisms that have... All sorts of different implications. So this could be an entire hours and hours of conversation, Yes. but basically it's things like inflammation. call it inflammation, is considered by many to be the most important like cause of aging and disease inflammation. And that's not just like inflammation. Like I cut myself shaving the other night. Okay. So I have, you know, inflammation, like an acute inflammation, but I'm watching it heal. Right. It's just so cool. But chronic inflammation is a very low grade thing happening all the time. You don't want to have a lot of that. You can measure that in your bloodstream. You can't necessarily see it, but it happens from, you know, we're sitting here in this crazy world with toxins everywhere and pollutants and in our water and our food supply and our air. It's just, if you think about it, you can get overwhelmingly scared that I don't want to, that's not what I'm trying to do. But the point is you want to arm yourself as much as you can to protect yourself against all of that. So there's inflammation, there's oxidation, free radicals in the air that are changing our cellular DNA and all that. There's an mTOR mechanism. There's so many mechanisms that we can get into the weeds of, I don't think would serve your audience right now, but it's fascinating and there's so much to read about it. And we're learning so much about it. So what's really cool is that if you look at the research and all the... the causes, the root causes of what's happening, there's a lot of solutions that lie in your lifestyle. So you can decrease inflammation, Okay. you could decrease oxidation, you can decrease these mechanisms of action by eating a very anti-inflammatory diet, leafy greens, cruciferous vegetables, lots of eat the rainbow every day. You could simplify and distill it into some simple messaging. Eat more plants, eat legumes, that's where the six daily threes are kind of, they've stayed the course. Mm-hmm. I stood the test of time with all the information we learned. But there's all these interesting intermediaries like our microbiome. You know, we have, I don't know, the numbers always changing, whatever I hear, because there's trillions and trillions of bacteria that live in our gut that basically control most of our health, you know, our cognition, our brain, gut access, our immune function. And it's basically like the middle man between all sorts of different things happening within the body. So that's really exciting too. So how do you have a healthy microbiome? You feed it fiber. Where do you get fiber? Plants. So there's all these different things that kind of point to eat more plants, eat more plants, eat more plants. So the simplest way to help with healthy aging and health span, eat more plants. Eat more plants. What, so I know that each color of plant is some sort of phytonutrient. Can you tell us a little bit about that? It's a whole interesting world. There's like, I mean, last I checked, there were hundreds of different categories of phytonutrients. Phyto meaning plant source and nutrients. so plants are out in the world, Withstanding weather and pests and all these things. And so they create these different compounds within them to survive, like survival chemicals, if you will. What's so cool is that when we consume them, we... can get the same benefits that the plants are getting. So there's chlorophyll and the green is chlorophyll, the carotenoids are reds, oranges and yellows and there's the vegetables that them. So those compounds themselves offer a huge plethora of different types of benefits, anti-inflammatory, antioxidative, cardio protective, soy foods have things that are bone protective. There's all these different compounds, isoflavonoids, So many different classifications, it keeps growing the more we learn. The cool thing is that if you just eat these colors and you eat the different plants, you're getting all this wide variety of benefits. Yeah, I think we don't even know all the things that we're doing for ourselves when we eat all the different colors, like they say, eat the rainbow. I mean, I really, I know that we know a lot, but I really do think we don't know everything. I think we're gonna keep finding things out. that, so all you have to do is just keep eating different colors, people. Just. We're at tip of the iceberg of what we understand. And what's even cooler, I think the most extraordinary part of it is you're not, we don't live in this little myopic world. Our body is not a machine. It does not take in protein because everyone's always talking about protein and just like it becomes, you know, what you want it to, it goes right into a muscle. It's like so much more complicated than that. Plus you don't just eat protein in isolation, unless you're eating just a protein powder, most protein powders are not just protein itself. Everything is a beautiful synergistic compilation, orchestration of different compounds. And what happens is how our body interprets that. It's just, it's a beautiful symphony of events that take place when you consume a food. Like, just like pretend you're eating just one, you know. a tomato or whatever. And you, it's got all these different things and your body knows what it is and knows what to do with it. It does this beautiful thing. And the way it absorbs it, the way it, you know, we excrete what we don't need. We absorb what we do. We use it when we need it, where we need it. Our bodies are so beyond brilliant. We don't even know a little iota of what's really going on in our bodies. So it's kind of extraordinary and way beyond our comprehension now. Yeah. You mentioned protein. I want to talk about that because people freak out about protein because, you know, that's one way the meat and dairy lobbies get us to buy into that myth that we have to have, you know, protein from animals and all that. Can you address that a little bit?~ gosh, Lauren, I don't even know where to start with this because I know. my thoughts have shifted on this of late. Like shockingly, my husband calls me 180 because I've done a 180 Huh. on protein because I know it's kind of crazy. Okay. I've been the one that's saying it doesn't matter as long as you get enough calories, you'll get enough protein. Well, it comes to... It's come to my attention that like the research that we're basing all that off even what the Institute of Medicine guidelines are for protein it's the minimum and the research seems to mostly have been done, all the research in health is mostly done on men. Why? Because us women are very much more complicated in terms of our cycles and our hormones and the changing of our hormones. It was so much different that we're not studied even a tiny bit compared to... shocking. the data on men. I know it's not shocking at all, but when you think about it like that, it's like, wow, I have to rethink everything. We don't really know. You know, again, you go off what you know. So yes, you can get protein in plants. There's no question about that. In fact, all amino acids are in all plants, just different ratios. And so you can get them. You have to be strategic about it. So you need to make sure you're getting legumes every day. That's why that's part of the six daily threes. Again, the six daily threes make so much sense if you think about it contextually in all of these different things. Yeah. You want to make sure you're getting those nuts and seeds because those have other amino acids. You want to make sure you're getting, you know, the vegetables have other amino acids. So you want to get a variety of whole plant foods to get the amino acids that we need, the essential amino acids, nine of the 20 amino acids. So that said, you can get it from plants. That's not a thing I've flipped on. What I flipped on is we probably need more. And especially perimenopausal women and postmenopausal women, which is a majority of my clientele. And now that I'm in that category, like going through the changes, I'm really digging in and there's really way more research now and way more people speaking out about it. That it's really interesting. It's kind of shifted my thinking a little bit more. So I am leaning towards eating more amino acids and I'm trying to like prioritize it more than I was before. And I'm having that, I'm doing that with my clients. And so it's shifted. That doesn't mean you can't do it, Okay. you just have to think about it. Okay, so tell me what should, how much should we be eating then if you think is what. I know, it's a great question. So the IOM, Institute of Medicine guidelines are still at the minimum is about 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight a day. So that means take your body weight in pounds. Okay, I don't even know what that means. Okay, right. In the US we use pounds. So if you take your body weight in pounds and divide it by 2.2, you get your kilograms. So then you would take your kilograms and times 0.8. Okay. And that's the minimum per day. Okay. Now we know that that shifts once we hit 60, 65. Okay, wait, can we go back though? Okay, say that again. So you take your body weight. Let's just say for an example, 120 pounds divided by two, 2.2, 2.2. Yeah, is that 2.2. Okay, wait, do I need to pull out a calculator? let's do it. It's about 54.54 grams of protein. Okay, I'm pulling out a calculator just so that we have, Yeah, do it. I okay, let's do a little more. Let's say, I don't know how much people weigh. Let's say 140. Okay, we're gonna do 140 divided by 2.2 is 63.63. to point two. And then what? So that's 63.63, that means they weigh 63.63 kilograms. Okay, 63.63 times, now what? So it's .8. is that 0.8 or just 0.8?.8. 0.8 equals, okay, so that's 50.9. So basically 51 grams of protein. Grams of. Does that sound about right? Okay. a day, but that's the bare minimum based on men. Now, when we get older, they're saying maybe one gram per kilogram per day. Okay. So I feel like that would be 60, what was it, 64? 63, yeah it was 63.63. So that. grams per day. Now again, by the way, you don't have to be perfect at this. don't want people to obsess about this. I don't. I don't. I'm just being more conscious about this, Right, but I'm just trying to get an idea though of like, but let's get. Great. how many grams, like what does this look like? Okay, so about 50, 60 grams of protein minimum. I'm so glad you're doing this. Now add strength training, which is incredibly important for perimenopausal menopausal women. This is like, it's so exciting, like lift heavy, get strong, get fit. Yeah. Then you need to make sure you're getting enough for that. Now the new researchers that I'm reading, there was an international journal paper, a white paper that came out last year. That was really interesting. And they're saying almost double that. It's almost like a gram per really? pound. So they're saying like 1.8 to A gram per pound. 2 grams per kilogram. So again, you don't have to get into the numbers like obsessively, but it is good to know. And it's a lot. So now here's my dilemma. That is a lot. So I work mostly with clients that are doing weight loss. Okay. When you're losing weight, Okay. and that's what Choose You Now Diet was based on, because I didn't ever finish that thought that That book was based on my work with weight loss transformations with my clients. what's shifted for me, so what matters is you have to create a deficit to lose weight. And I know we're not talking about weight loss right now, but I just want to compare it with these numbers. Ciao. If you're trying to create a deficit, you have to eat less. There's no way around that. You have to eat less to lose weight. There's no, every diet, every ozempic, every everything makes you eat less and that's how you lose weight. So that means you have limited real estate on the plate. So if you're now saying you need double the protein, what you put on the plate matters even more, especially during weight loss. Now it's really hard to do weight loss and anabolism or like gaining muscle at the same time. Like they just are two competing physiologies. So this is where I'm really trying to play now. This is my new work and this is what I'm trying to like recalculate and re kind of convene with how I approach this. This is the first time I'm talking about this in a podcast. So I appreciate you bringing this up because I've been talking about it very little, Yeah. dripping it out on my social media because my thoughts are really changing and I want to make sure I have it right and can help a of people. Yeah, we won't hold It's complicated. you to it, but I am very interested to, know, Dr. Greger was also talking about, well, did he? No, I think that he, I can't remember which side he came down on with his, I'll tell you, because I was going crazy he says it doesn't matter, right? Or he says we're getting it. with all this at the beginning. And so I asked him if we could just do a quick Instagram live and he popped good. on that next day or that day. yeah, no, he's, but I haven't talked to him since. So this was a few months ago and I've since read the new white paper and all this other stuff. So I would love to talk to him again. I haven't talked to him in a while, but he's saying if you eat plants, you eat enough calories, you get enough. Just like the Institute of Medicine, Yeah, right. get enough. just like I said in all my previous books, I've said the same thing. but I'm a little curious about this new information for women specifically. And aging, there was a lot of information on aging. Okay. So what I've always said, what I said in HealthSpan Solution, many, wrote that book. When did we write that book? It's been several years, like six years ago. But in that book, we talk about how the only way we've ever extended health span and longevity in every model organism tested, yeast, rodents to our... our primate cousins was with dietary amino acid restriction. Yeah, that's a complete conflict of what I'm saying right now. Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that. Okay? Okay, so what do we do? You're not, What to do. so you have to do more research, is that what you're saying? Or? I'm saying, yes, I do. think it depends on you, the person, your age, your activity level. That's always been a thing. You know, I'm still going back to the American College of Sports Medicine guidelines too, but it's basically, are you in weight loss mode? Are you in, you know, health span mode, perimenopause, postmenopause? Are you, so that's where the numbers kind of lie. I also still believe that it doesn't have to be a perfect number. I don't think we are not numbers. We are not machines. We are still humans. And so I think people need to also find what works for them. And, but within those confines. I think I'm going to start recommending more like one to 1.2 as a minimum grams per kilogram a day, cause that's more feasible, but getting it from plant sources seems to be better anyway, that you're approaching from plant sources seems to be better from a longevity perspective anyway. So prioritizing plant-based sources of protein is another good tip that I have not let go of at all. There's those, Yeah, of course. I've never seen any contradiction against that. You know, I mean, I guess that's what the whole China study was based on. Dr. T. Colin Campbell was, you know, us. getting your protein from plants, not animals, and I guess having less of it. So this is new information, and I guess we still need to really, all right, stay tuned. I hope we didn't confuse everybody. I mean, I think it's not gonna hurt you to get a lot of, I know. like, you know, 60 grams of protein a day is not gonna hurt you in any way, right? Let me simplify it for your audience because I don't want to confuse anyone. Okay, simplify. It can be confusing, but it doesn't have to be. Okay. Make sure you're getting legumes every day, beans, peas, well, at least one and a half cups a day of some version of it, How much? Cup? one and a half cups, okay? and then get the one to two ounce of nuts and seeds a day. What I love about it, when I was talking about the real estate on the plate Okay. and you have to think about it, if you just make sure, there is no room. There's less room, I should say there's less room for processed foods and extra foods. Like you don't need to have flour, you don't need to have sugar, know, that oils, that's it. Like if you can get that off your plate as much as possible, Yes. sugar, oil and flowers, especially the white flowers, you have more room for those things. And if you're eating those whole foods, it's much easier to get all the stuff you need. It's the only way to get what you need. Okay. And you don't have to do it every day perfectly. aim for a baseline and then there's room for life on the side. Right? Okay. You can have a holiday fast or whatever. Okay, so a cup and a half of legumes a day, one to two ounces of nuts and seeds, maybe some soy, get all your green leafy vegetables, your cruciferous vegetables, your mushrooms, your colorful vegetables, get all that every day. Okay, that's basically what you need to do. Yes, yes, and less processed food. It's basically the same thing I've been saying, but maybe you just need to focus more on just making sure you're getting all that. getting enough protein. Okay, you know what? This is good information. I mean, it's good to always have new information and to think about it and to do your own research. Everybody else can look into it as well for themselves. And see how you feel. You can add some more, You have to... see how you feel. I love that. And as you know, if you're, if you're really a scientist, you have to go with what's changing and let go of, Mm-hmm. cause it evolves and it's fascinating. It's, really hard to change messaging like that. But yeah, I like to think about it, you know, overall, like our, how are your labs? How's your energy? How's your immune system? Like, are you getting sick all the time? And you know, and energy levels are really matter too. So if you have a baseline for yourself, those are things that are just so easy to just kind of keep monitoring. instead of getting caught up in all the weeds. Like just how do you feel? How are you performing? How are you recovering from your workouts? How are your workouts? And how healthy do you feel? Okay, I think that's good advice. So speaking of weight loss, I was reading, well, I think most people are familiar with like the Blue Zones and you say that there's like nine things in common from the Blue Zones, Dan Buettner's book and program that things overlap, you know, connection to family and. purpose in life and eating a plant-based diet is one of them. But then you talk about the Okinawans and this concept of Harajachi-bu. I love this and I try to do it, but I don't do a great job. Can you tell us what that is? I love this concept too. I love hara hachibu and I think it's the hardest thing to do for most, It is for me. in fact, most of my clients. I always say, I don't have an off switch, so it's really challenging, but it's a good challenge because it's important. So basically it translates to 80 % full. Mm-hmm. And this is a traditional way of thinking of just not eating too much. And there's so much. So many quotations from like the best people in history that have like changed the world so much that all talk about like just eating a little bit less or just, you know, just, you know, that's where fasting comes in and all of that. So it means eating till you're 80 % full, not getting full, not getting over full. And it's a way to, it's a good way for weight loss. It's a good way for just health, speed, longevity, because it seems like caloric restriction. in a way is really beneficial like we were talking about before with Yeah. the amino acid restriction. So it's a way to do it on a daily basis or meal to meal basis. So here's how I hack the system. This is what I teach my clients. I ask myself, I have my clients ask yourself. You look at your plate. This comes from cognitive behavioral therapy. You look at your plate, visualize half of what it is or your bowl, visualize half of it. Then as mindfully as possible, eat your half of the first half to shut your screens. I say this, it's not a perfect world. I try, I'm not perfect either, but I'm trying every day to be as, in a nice space where you're really focused on your food and chew as much as you can and taste it and smell it and feel it and enjoy it. When you get to the halfway point, take a break, put the fork down, cause that's hard. You get that fork to mouth momentum. Yes, just keeps going. It's hard to stop. So you put it down. Yeah. Put it down. And then sometimes I even have to distract myself a little bit. Like I'll just take a second break and just push the food away and go, can I be done yet? And sometimes it helps to stand up, because when you stand up, you can really feel how full you are. Mm-hmm. And then can I be done yet? If you're still hungry, look at the plate again and then visualize the next half and then do the same thing. But the goal is to get to where you are just satisfied or 80 % set full. And it's a real interesting, fun challenge. It is. And I, you know, I think everybody knows that Okinawa is a blue zone or was. I think it's becoming a little less now that there's a new generation of people in more processed food and it's kind of sad. Okinawa was considered one of the healthiest populations ever. And all of the blue zones, believe from what I understand the newest science, we've all, it's not like that anymore. been infiltrated by fast food and Western foods. That's so sad. Yes. So sad. So sad. that makes me, I think is Loma Linda still one? Again, like probably compared to others, they're better, but we're all kind of devolving dietarily. Mm hmm. Dang. That's so sad. I know the ultra-process, I think people consume, I think the latest number was most, I think Americans consume, I think it's 67% of their calories from ultra-processed foods. Like packaged foods that are hyper palatable with sugar, Ugh. oil, salt, flour, additives, preservatives, compounds that are just wouldn't even be allowed in like Europe and other Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's really bad. It's really bad because ultra processed foods are causing just as much problems as maybe even more than animal products. It's the worst thing we're putting in our body and children are eating a lot of it, Mm-hmm. most of it, and it's everywhere. It's just, and it's 24 seven now we can get it delivered to our door. Yeah. It's scary. It's the number one cause of early death and disability. I know. It's so sad. Yeah. And I mean, it really, you really can't like we're I'm joking about like, I can't stop eating. And I'm just having like a whole food plant based lunch or diet. I can if I want, right. But when you start with like, I remember I used to eat my my go to this is way I've been whole food plant based for 10 years. But back in the day, I used to eat baked lays because I thought they were healthy, you know. And I couldn't finish till the bag was gone because it just lights up your brain like cocaine or something, you You just can't stop till they're gone. It's... Yes. But that's literally what they're doing. The scientists are designing foods to do exactly that because it sells more. Yes. It's not nefarious. It sounds nefarious. It's nefarious. But the intention is just to sell more. You the bottom line. Yeah. sell more food. And you're gonna, if you can't put down that bag, I mean, no wonder their slogan was can't just eat one or whatever it was. It's right, but I wanna tell your audience too, and I love to say this, because it's so important and people forget this. It's not you, you're not broken. It's the food. And I call it the, Yes. what I called it in the Choose You Now Diet is this is a trifecta of a modern day trifecta of overabundance. Number one, we are biologically. adapted to survive. It is a survival instinct to take in as much calorie as we possibly can so we could survive in times of famine, except there is no times of famine most of the world most of the time. Number two, it is everywhere. Food is everywhere. Hyperpotable, ultra-processed food is everywhere. And you're the odd person if you say, I'm not having dessert or no, I don't want that. I'm eating rice and tofu and broccoli right now. So it's normalized. And the third part of it is like, well, the normalization of it is a third part of it. So it's like, it's everywhere, everyone's doing it and you have to stand on your own and be weird to say, no, I'm not doing that right now. Yes. I don't eat that. And it's really challenging. It's never been like this before in history. Yeah. And I, it makes me so sad when I look around and like when I'm at the grocery store and I see people, you know, that don't look very healthy and I see what's in their cart. And it, I think that they're trying to make good choices. Like I think what they're doing is maybe akin to what I was doing, like with my baked lays, you know, it says healthy on the box. It says heart healthy. says, you know, whatever it says like, We always joke that the broccoli doesn't come with a, know, eat this, it's healthy. If it has to have some kind of disclaimer on it, it's probably not healthy. And so it makes me just so sad that they're probably trying to make good choices. it's like, you can't win. You cannot win if you're eating those hyper palatable foods. It's just not gonna happen. You have to. You know, that's why it's hard to start with a whole food plant-based diet, but if you can just dive in and really let go of the things that you think you need to eat, you know, maybe I really need chips or I really need a bite of cake after dinner or something like that, it's easier to just let that go and try to jump in. Don't you find that? It's very simple, but it's not easy because of like what I was saying, Exactly. the deep, deep roots that are cultural and familiar and associations for us, but also our biochemistry. Our brains light up at that food. Yep. It's a dopamine chemical cascade that makes us want more. And how are we fighting against that? and So what I do with my clients is like, yeah, you try to just get away from it. And like every day it gets easier and easier and easier. You'll never not want it, but it gets much easier to resist it. And then you see how good you feel when you're eating wholesome foods, Mm-hmm. right? And you feel the difference, you see the difference. And then that's self-perpetuating in a really beautiful But it's, know, one dose of that stuff sets my clients off and myself off for a week. One dose. It's that powerful. Yeah, yes. I know. Makes me mad. Okay, so what is metabolic winter? I know. Metabolic winter. So we're supposed to stay like we have seasons. We naturally have seasons and, but we don't use those seasons anymore. Right. We are in a state and same temperature, you know, from the car to the house, the airplane, to the other places that we, you temperature, right. And we are light. We are lit. wherever we want, have blue, we have our red lights, our blue lights, our screens everywhere, lighting everywhere. So we live in a very artificial environment, but our bodies haven't adapted to that yet. We could have food anytime. Our bodies have not adapted. This is, you know, many, many thousands of years old and it takes a lot longer than that to adapt. And so here we are living in this kind of pseudo world. We don't have seasons and we don't have daily cycles, but our bodies still have these natural circadian rhythms. So we're supposed to have times where we're cold and dark and not eating, but that we don't have that anymore. So winter doesn't come, right? Winter isn't coming. I finally watched Game of Thrones. It's not coming. It's not coming. winter isn't Not in real life, just on the show. I never knew where that whole thing came from, Ha ha. but yeah, no. So we're not. We're living in this artificial environment. And so again, we're going against our biology. So many things are against our biology. So I do try to keep my home cool. I definitely cool it down at night so I can get better sleep. It helps you sleep. And it helps you to see bright light first thing in the That's really important. As early as you can, when the sun comes up, go out and stare at the sun or with your sunglasses on, but get sunlight. You're supposed to get sunlight every day. Yeah. So you can kind of like get your circadian rhythm. It just, it's your body knows, your body knows through your SCN, all these, there's all these things that are happening and all these hormones that get released. We have this daily cycle, we have a monthly cycle, we have an annual cycle. And so if you can tie into that as much as possible, that's why it's good to get outside, to get some nature, to get the sunshine, go to sleep when it's cold, shut your screens a couple hours or three hours bed. I know most of us don't do that. God. We check them when we wake up in the middle of the it's terrible. Yeah, I mean, I have a red light bulb in my bedroom that I put on to try to like go into the night zone. So, you know, it's, there's a lot of things that we do in our modern world that don't work well for us. And that's why there's people that have seasonal service. disorder. And that's why there's so much, you know, mental health issues now and chronic disease. It's all linked to our lifestyles and our unsynchronous. I don't know if that's a word, but our desynchronizing from our biology. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is that why people do like ice baths? That's a thing too, right? People are doing this cold plunges and cold showers and cold things. And yeah, it's supposed to be part of that, but I've just recently learned it's not ideal for women, but it is helpful for men. I know we're so different. Mind blowing. I was gonna say, Well, I wasn't good. Yeah, right. But I wasn't going to do that anyway. I don't like to be cold, which I was doing that with showers for a while and I was so happy to hear that that's Yes. I do not good. I'm like, okay, good. It's horrible. try to do that in the shower at the end, like just do a cold. I had a French friend and she told me that her mom, Yeah. that was her mom. That's how my mom's breast stayed perky till she was 80 something years old. At the end, she would put some cold water all over herself and her hair and her breasts. And I was like, what? Okay, well, that ship has maybe sailed, but yeah, It's also good for your hair too. Yeah. yeah. But also, mean, okay, so I tried to give that a whirl for a while, but I was like, yeah. I mean, I tried to, tried to remember to cool it down at the end, but again, I gotta do better. I really am a creature of, Yeah. I love being warm. I know. Lauren, you just ruined it for me because now I'm going to think about breasts in my showers every time. Like maybe I should just do it. Try to perk up your breasts. Can it help after? Okay, and then the one last little thing I want to talk to you about. you Am I saying this right? Methanionine? Okay, I'm already, methanionine? Dianene. I'm already boggling it. So I read in one of your books, I think it was Healthspan, about... breast cancer cells die when they're starved of this, methanionine, so that in the highest concentration is in animal foods. That's irony. So I'm just throwing that out there in case, God forbid, anybody's going through breast cancer that they know that this is like, you better cut out meat and animal foods, right? I mean, if the highest concentration. Well, I don't want to scare people. I just want to say that like that's another reason. There's a, again, it's very complicated. A lot of mechanisms of action, including methionine, including mTOR, including all these things, which makes plant protein a good source. It means prioritize plant protein. Okay. I'm I'm not on the, you know, I'm not screaming out. If you eat animal products, you're going to die. It's not true. That is not a fact. Eating more plants is a healthy message that everyone I think can, can swallow. And I don't want people to think that if they have something or they have their turkey Thanksgiving or whatever it is, they're going to kill themselves. It's not true. And I don't want to be hyperbolizing any of this. Right. I like that. So it's eat more plants, prioritize plants as protein sources as much as possible. But I don't want to the fear of things. Yeah. I'd rather it be balanced. And I'd rather it be like prioritize plants, definitely whole, as whole food as possible, get rid of the ultra processed foods. limit the animal products, avoid them if you want to. That's a great thing, but you don't have to. You don't have to be completely animal free. I don't want that message to be scary because it really isolates so many people and I don't want people to feel it. I love that. It's not true. Yeah. I really appreciate you saying that because I really do believe in meeting people where they are. And I think that's really important. I was more thinking about it for like, I just wish doctors knew about it, you know? I wish like, God forbid you get diagnosed with something and the oncologist, the first thing is like, you need to eat more plants. I mean, I know they're doing that at MD Anderson now in Houston, offering up a plant-based diet, but like I wish I can't wait till we get to that point where a doctor's gonna tell you, more plants. It's, it is changing, but it's slow. So I remember when I first, like when I 20 or 19 years ago, when I was, I was lecture to healthcare professionals and there was Mm-hmm. a couple of handful of doctors in the room. And the last talk I gave to doctors specifically was right before the you know, so was 2019 and there were 2000 healthcare professionals in the room. Yes. So that's still a long time ago now that's five years ago and they're There's so many new platforms and so much more education and more hospitals are incorporating, I mean not hospitals, but medical schools are incorporating at least an iota of nutrition. But it's still funny because I was married to a doctor for, I don't was with him for 20 something years. through med school, through nutrition school, after we were married, after we had kids, all that, wherever we went, people would ask him a question about nutrition. And he'd be like, ask my wife, like she's a dietician. As Juliana. Now I don't know anything about that stuff, but he was the one that would say that. But then I would go to his medical school or his hospital dinners and the doctors would be arguing with, the cardiologists would be arguing with me about like protein and needing Mm-hmm. Yes. to have steak. It was like, my God. So anyway, it's changed a lot is what I'm trying to say. But it's slow. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully it will change more. Okay, well, I mean, you've been very eye-opening and forthcoming. I really like that. I'm gonna just ask you a few questions that I ask everybody at the end. What's your best piece of advice for aging well? Eat more plants. I know, Yes, I knew that was going to be that was a setup. but the thing that I'm really, really passionate now about more is getting, is really working at like lifting heavy, staying physical more than I've ever. Yeah. I've been like, I've always been, I'm a personal trainer. I've been a personal trainer since 1998. Yeah. wow. I'm such passionate about exercise, but now I'm more excited about the like heavy lifting and the like pushing even in your sixties, seventies, eighties, like pushing yourself. And I'm excited about that new research. So eat. Eat plans, eat more plans, work out hard. Yeah. Do some heavy lifting, I like that, okay. Do you have a best piece of advice that's not necessarily age related? What is that? The best piece of advice I got was an evolution of when I did my podcast and interviewed so many amazing, amazing people, and it always boiled down to one thing. Yes. And it changed my life when I really started focusing on it. And that is gratitude. No matter what's going on in your life, what are you grateful for? And that shifted my entire life. I'm confident that's what brought me to my beautiful husband that... Yes. It's just this shift of focusing on gratitude. I take gratitude walks. I try to do them almost every day where I go outside and I just what am I grateful for? I'm grateful for the sky is blue and this this and my Comfortable shoes or just stupid things and then big things my kids, you know all that stuff. So it's changed my life Yeah, it comes up pretty much every podcast here as well. you can't discount that to be grateful. Do you have anything lessons that you learned from watching your parents age? I know. Same over here. that's a source or subject. mean, it's just that everything, yeah, everything I've, I teach, I mean, my parents have seen me write books and lecture and be on TV and have my own show and all these things. And they just laugh still. There's like, yeah, you're crazy. know, you and your crazy ideas. And you know, my dad's on, they're all on polypharmacy and my dad's hunched. I can't, I don't want to talk bad about them. know. I love them more than anything, but I'm, thank God they're still, you know, you know, they're traveling the world and they're. doing amazing things, but yeah, that's good. but they could do so much better, So much better, I know. especially MacFarlander, but yeah. I know, okay. Do you have a favorite health or beauty product? Favorite health or beauty product? Well, I would say honestly, from the inside and outside, it's the leafy greens and the cruciferous, Yeah. because it's so good for your skin and for your everything. But also, you know, I never said this out loud, but I really believe it helps is I always moisturize. I always put like a natural lotion on my body, like at least, know, after a bath, after a shower every day. And I feel like that helps me and my skin on my face. yeah. So moisturizing and water for that. Yes. Moisturizing, yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I'm a big believer. you have a favorite public person that you admire for the way they're aging? Thank Yes, I do. My soul mama. So Brenda Davis is my soul mom. Yes. I've been calling her that. She's mentored me since the beginning of my career. She's a goddess. She's incredible. And she's written, I don't know how many books and spoken all over the world and changed so many people. And she's so beautiful and kind. That woman is a badass. Like she is so strong. She's doing like handstands and crazy yoga stuff and crazy. Yeah. She's incredible. She's and she's, I think she said she's 60 something. I mean, she's she's doing amazing. No, I think she's in She's my hero. her 70s, isn't she? Or am I wrong? No, no, she's not. I don't want to say 65. She's not? Okay. Wow. I just talked to her recently. Yeah, she's a badass. She's incredible. She's my yeah, she's my role model.~ gosh, yeah, she's something. And this is, don't, I love to know this, I don't know why, this is just like such an off the wall question, Thanks but what's your favorite concert you've ever been to? my gosh. Okay, so here's a paradox. It's between Motley Crue and Neil Diamond. I knew you, why did I, and Neil Diamond? my God, you're like me. my God, that's hilarious. Motley Crue, what year did you see Motley Crue? my gosh, I must have been in the 90s. was such a heavy metal chick. I was a rocker. Like total heavy metal. Who was your favorite? Tommy Lee or who? Nikki's Nikki six.~ I don't know. I Who was your favorite? don't know. I loved all of them and I just, I don't know. I loved all of that Metallica and Anthrax and Guns N' Roses and Skid Row. my gosh. was like obsessed with that. All of that, same. Yeah. But then I also love Neil Diamond. I grew up to his music and all the sixties Beatles and stuff like that. I'm like... But I never got to see them obviously in concert. my God, you're like me. You should see my playlist. It has like Motley Crue and Neil Diamond on it. That's so funny. We have to hang out sometime. It seems so fun. I knew I was gonna love you. my gosh. Likewise, likewise. Well, it's funny because I already had you lined up when I asked Jarena Burton, who I know is your friend. I was like, who should I interview? And she goes, you have to interview Julianna. I was like, she's already on. She's coming on. So I was so happy. I love her so much. She's amazing. Yeah. I want my daughter. I mean, I want my son to marry her daughter so bad. When we were many, many years ago, my God. they were, my son is now enormous. He's enormous football player, enormous. And her daughter, they were this little and we were in Canada and we went out to dinner and we have this picture I always go back to of them like kind of like hugging and they were the cutest things on the planet. Aww. I'm like, I want Dreena to be my sister-in-law so you guys have to get Yes. Yes. my God, that's I'm still holding onto that. so funny. I'm holding out hope for you. Well, thank you for being such a great guest and for all your good information Thank you. and for all your honesty because I feel like you really are still thinking things through and I appreciate that you, and I really do appreciate that you're thinking things through and not just clinging on to old ideas or whatever. really, it's hard to put new information out, so I appreciate that. And congratulations on your marriage. I thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And I thank you for saying that because I feel so vulnerable changing what I've been saying in public, Yes. but I have to go with what's the science. have to, to be in an integrity, You have to. but it's so, I appreciate this conversation and you being open and I you for everything. You're amazing. You too, Lauren. Thank you. Take care, Juliana. Bye bye. Bye.