HealthyExpatParent’s Podcast

FS Kids and College - # 3 : Let's talk money!

• Susie Csorsz Brown

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Here we are with episode 3 from our series talking about Foreign Service kids and College.  This time, Hannah and I talk about money.  How to figure costs, what is need, what is merit and other kinds of aid, and how can we make going to university a bit more accessibly, financially-speaking.  It's a very different ballgame than when we parents went to university!  Grab your notebook and get ready to take a deep dive into finances for university.  

Links and resources:


SPEAKER_01:

Thanks so much for joining. This is Susie Church Brown, and I am here again with Hannah Engel Rebetzer. And we are talking more about uh Foreign Service kids and universities. So this is podcast number three in um an indeterminate number of of uh uh sessions. But today, so before we've talked about what it is um the colleges are looking for in their applicants. Um that was the first one, if you want to revisit that. And then the second one, we talked about what it is that um students should be looking for or could be looking for in their univers in their universities and and how to um make a balanced list for their applications. So today what we're gonna be talking about is um affordability. And there are so many different factors that come into this particular topic. So we're gonna try and do our best to do justice to all of them. So welcome, Hannah. Thanks for joining. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, I think before we start, it's important to define some terms that get thrown a lot around a lot um when talking about affordability, and it can be quite confusing. So um I'm gonna just run through a couple quick definitions. Um, the first is financial aid. So this is kind of the umbrella term, and this covers both need-based aid and merit aid. So it's any money that your son or daughter are getting to attend an institution. And then this, you know, financial aid is then divided into two buckets. One is need-based aid. So this can come in um, these can be grants, um, work study, scholarships, federal loans. Um, your need-based aid can come from both the federal government and from the institution itself.

SPEAKER_01:

And need-based, just to clarify, need-based is basically the difference between what you say you can contribute, you, student and or family, and what the cost of tuition and all of the fees are.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think I'd even think about need-based aids as just money that is coming from an institution because they think you have you have a financial need, because it varies uh uh what we call the gap, the amount that you're able to pay and the cost of the institution. Very rarely do there are very few colleges that uh commit to uh meeting the gap.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So I think just thinking about need-based aid is money that your kid's gonna get because you have a financial need. And sometimes the federal government determines that, and sometimes an institution determines that, and sometimes they're you're getting need-based aid um for both from both the government as well as the institution. Okay. Um, I think um, yeah, I think before we talk move on, I think uh one thing that a lot of foreign service families say is we're not even gonna do our um apply for aid because we don't qualify for need-based aid. And that's a big myth. Um on the federal level, most foreign service families' income will be high enough that they won't qualify for federal need-based aid, but on an institutional level, many foreign service families do in fact qualify for need-based aid. So a quote from Harvard Site says financial aid will be available to many of the students from families with incomes above$200,000. Um, other schools quote to even be in the 300s, right? So those institutions have determined or decided that they are going to give need-based aid for what we would think of as higher earning families, but potentially um a$90,000 a year price tag is not feasible.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. All right. And just I know we'll talk about this more in a minute, but this is determined by the FAFSA.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, I'm gonna go over that in just a second. Yeah. So merit aid. So merit aid is um all institutional based. The federal government is not gonna give any um merit-based aid. So aids, aid that is given to a student not based on their need, but by their academics, maybe their extracurriculars, maybe because of um their leadership skills. Um, this is all gonna become come from institutions, on the institution level. Okay. Um finally, we have outside scholarships. So these are money that come from other institutions. Some of them are famous, the Target, Target has a big one. Um, and then sometimes it's just your local, right? Like our my kids went to Interundal County Public Schools. They have their local, the sports, the Sports Boosters Club has a scholarship, our local police department has an actually pretty generous scholarship. So those are considered outside scholarships. So I think we want to think about like three um three sources of money that kids can use to pay for college. First being need-based aid, so money that you're getting because your family has a financial need. Second, merit-based aid, which is um what institutions are using to recruit students that they're that they want for a particular reason. Um, and then outside scholarships. So these are uh these are institutions that are not connected to a university or the federal government who give students money to attend college.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So now let's talk about the FAFSA versus the CSS profile. Um, so both of these are documents that collect information on um families and students' finances. The FAFA is a federal um a document or a um like a worksheet that comes out from the federal government. Many schools just uh use the FAFA and it's gonna ask you questions about um the students' incomes, the student's asset, parent incomes, parents' assets. And it shoots out a number that's called an SAI, um, which is the student aid index, basically how much um a family is expected to contribute uh to the college tuition. All right. Now we have the CSS profile. Um, and I will link this in the show notes, but there are many schools that use um the CS profile, CSS profile in addition to the FAFSA. And this is a much deeper dive. Um, like I think they call it like a wallet autopsy, but a much bigger dive into um a family's income and assets. Um it they ask questions like how many students are in a family, which is something the FAFSA, when they did a big overhaul last year, has stopped asking and really hurts some big families. They ask questions about medical circumstances, um much, much deeper dive into a family's assets for some families. Um, and then they also calculate it's not called an SAI, but then each uh university that uses the CSS profile has a different algorithm to calculate how much they think that family should be able to contribute into college.

SPEAKER_01:

And what um types of schools rely on information on those from those two different documents?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so there's hundreds of schools that use both. Okay. Hundreds. And we will link the list. Um and then it's really important to remember that each school that uses the CSS profile is then using a different algorithm to calculate um what they expect a family to contribute to college. And so, for example, many schools that use a CSS profile will take into consideration if you have other kids in college. Um, this is something that FAFA does not take into consideration.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay. So um, yeah, I mean, for our family, we now have three people in university, but I don't think we have filled out the CSS profile.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, you have to if the William and Mary takes it. So if you if a school is just a FAFSA, the school just accepts a FAFSA as of the new federal overhaul. Um, and this is a huge, this is but hurt really hurt families. They no longer, it used to be that when you got your when a school calculated their SAI, so or was back then it was called EFC, expected family contribution. Um, and let's say they expected you to be able to contribute$40,000 a year. They would just split if you have two kids in college, you've just divided by two. And so you'd be expected to contribute$20,000 for each kid. FAFSA school, schools that only take the FAFSA no longer take that into consideration, which is something that really hurt families. Yeah. So um I think CSS profile schools can be surprising for parents in both directions. The CSS profile is really good at finding, you know, maybe you have that, you've hid some money in your three vacation homes, and that's going to come up on your CSS profile in a way that it may not come up on your FAFSA. On the other hand, um, if you're, you know, having a circumstance that is there's a financial drain on your family, such as a medical circumstance, that will also be reported in a CSS profile and not on the FAFSA. And so it's really um it can the see some families find that the CSS profile has a higher um number in terms of how much they expect families to contribute. But for other families, they can be surprised by how much lower it is. Um, so that's some we'll we'll go into more detail about that.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, wow.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. So I am super passionate about affordability in college. Um, this is why I do what I do. I think that um the college financing process is totally backwards compared to anything we shop for. Um, I made the analogy before, but we're looking for most families working at six-figure, um, a six-figure investment. That's buying a home, that's buying a fancy car every year. Um, but unlike these other things we shop for with colleges, we shop and then we take out a loan at the very end, once your kid is committed to the school they're going to. That summer you're calling up your banks and trying to get those loans. Um for houses and cars, we do that budgeting process before we even start shopping. Um, you can't even make an offer on a house without a pre-approval letter for a loan. Um, so something I really, really suggest parents do is kind of take the same uh perspective that you would if you were buying a car or a house and do that with the call with the college process. So work backwards, figure out um what you can afford, determine your monthly payments like you would with a house or a car, and then start shopping around for the college. Um, as you can start doing this as early as freshman or as early as a ninth or 10th grade year, just to set those realistic expectations for your kids about how much money, what can you afford as a afford as a monthly payment and setting those expectations with your kids?

SPEAKER_01:

I it's so important. I mean, that manages their expectations. It helps them create that list that we talked about last session, last last podcast, that like actually they can attend rather than creating this dream list and then you're the bad guy, mom and dad, that have to say, yeah, sorry, I know you got in, but we can't afford it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And it's better to be pleasantly surprised in the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00:

All right, so there's so many amazing tools for helping figure family figure out what that budget looks like. Um so the first, I'm gonna go through three of them. And I think playing around, I'm a huge numbers person, so I think it's super fun. Um, but playing around with your kids so there's full transparency about these conversations. So the first is your how to find your student aid index. Um, and this is, and we will link these, but online it's called the federal student aid estimator. Um, and this will give you, this gives you an estimate of how much the federal government will expect you to be able to contribute to college. Um, it uses the tax information um from the tax year that is two years prior to your student's first year of college. So this has really big implications um for if you've lost a job in the two years.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, it's a long time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, um, it's called the double look back. And so I think um it's really I'm not a financial advisor, but if you work with um one, it's important that you are again making these financial decisions when your kid is in ninth or tenth grade because they do this double look back.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh my gosh. And I'm just thinking about this past calendar year, how many um employment situations have changed for our foreign service families? Um, and you know, if you've moved from like we were fortunate enough to move from a post of a lower differential to a higher differential, but then I'm not working this year.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And so for our foreign service families, the bouncing around of household income is wild. Think about sometimes you're a tandem, then there's times when you're not tandem, that's a 50% pay cut. Um I think that these are all things where you have to be very, very intentional and remembering that double look back.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, okay. That is a that is a definite um asterisk to keep checking back on that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And I will say I worked with a student this summer whose mom lost her job during the uh the doging, and was it we were able to win an appeal because of that, but that was a very, very stressful summer for the student, and the new financial aid package didn't come back till out till July, and then the family had like three weeks to shop around for private loans to fill the gap.

SPEAKER_01:

So was that for a private school or a public?

SPEAKER_00:

A private school.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, and that's that's a different sort of a conversation than with a public university.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um wow. Okay. Next tool the net price calculator. So any schools that take federal funds must publish this calculator called a net price calculator. If you remember what what I um mentioned earlier, some schools use FASFA, some schools to determine FETAid, and some schools use CSS profile, and they all have different algorithms to determine whether a family qualifies for need-based aid. Harvard or Princeton saying families with 200,000 plus income are needy families, right? I I there are other schools that uh you need to have have much uh bring bringing home a lot less money to qualify for need-based aid. And so um it's almost impossible to predict uh whether a family, what what a family is being is going to be accept expected to pay. And so these net price calculators are really, really helpful to give a sense of um what that's gonna look like. Kids put in oftentimes on these and they're different on every every uh university has a different net price calculator because they're using different algorithms um to make their uh make their class and pay their bills. Remember, can't say this enough. Colleges are businesses, they also have to pay their bills. Um but the net price calculator then will show you out what you're expected, would they expect you to pay? Um, almost nobody is paying the sticker price uh for university. It's kind of like going on an airplane and you look to the left and to the right, and everyone's paying a different amount. It's the same when you look at colleges and universities. And then lastly, I think this is the most important is using the federal student aid loan stimulator. So loan calculator that you I really recommend uh doing with your center daughter and looking at what the implications are for taking out$100,000,$60,000, or even$20,000 in debt, and what that looks like for your monthly payments. Um, if you're gonna have a monthly payment of$600 a month, what does that look like if you are a teacher? What does that mean if you are a nurse practitioner? Um, and having that important conversation with your kids. So those are the three tools that I think are really helpful. Um, I think using them together uh is a great way to try to set that budget.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, especially in this, um, I mean, our kids that are going, are applying for schools or are going to schools now, they're obviously not looking for their profession. They're not looking for their job right now. But um, if we look at today's economy and the job situations and kind of the um looming AI implications, um you know, these are really important factors to consider. What will your loan payment be? And what um what sort of job will you be able to have and be able to cover the payments? I mean, these are all our kids are amazing and super intelligent and fascinating human beings, but oftentimes teenagers aren't really the ones that are the best at looking postgraduate, like thinking about the future.

SPEAKER_00:

So and sometimes even parents, right, they think um, I've had parents say we're willing to take out$100,000. And I think that's amazing and super generous. And they're taking it out in their names. A couple of things to remember. If you're saying that, where are you gonna get that hundred thousand dollars? I've had parents say that and not get approved um because you're taking out bank loans and you don't know if you're if your family income isn't very high, you may it may not be easy to get that out. Um, and you may be shopping around for loans with very, very, very high interest rates. So um again, this is so different than cars and houses where you have to have a pre-approval letter. You admit and you sign, you get admitted and sign that you're going to a college without any pre-approval loan process. And now you're going from bank to bank to bank trying to get these, get these um large loans. It can be very, very, very challenging. So doing this with your kid before, before you start the process and definitely before you sign that acceptance.

SPEAKER_01:

So this all sounds very dreary.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, let's talk about some positive things. So there's uh part of the reason why I'm passionate about this is because I just don't think very few few families need to be paying the full price for college. And there's lots of ways to get that price tag down. Um, I first want to talk about increasing need-based aid. So if you're one of those families that is going to qualify for need-based aid, meaning the call, the college itself, the university itself, or the federal government deems that your family has a financial need, um, there are several ways to do that. So I want to uh remind you guys about SAI student aid index. I'm talking about families with a very low SAI. All right. Um, and remember your SAI can go as low as negative$1,500. So um, and that's what you're being expected to contribute each year. So if you have a low SAI, my suggestion is um, well, I have a lot of suggestions, but if you are a high achieving student with a low SAI, we want to look at those target the 100, 225, uh what we consider like elite schools. So schools with big endowments, they don't offer any merit aid, and they're only giving monies to families with demonstrated need. So these are your Ivy's, um, these are your small liberal arts colleges in New England, Williams, Bowden. Um, and they're really, really trying their institutional projects. Priorities are, we are trying to, we are going to use our large endowment to help eliminate the gap. So the gap between what a family is able to pay and the price of the university. There's if you follow the news almost every month, there's another school that comes out with this that have no loan policies, meaning policies, meaning they are promising that there will be no gap between what a student is expected to pay and the price tag of the university. They also want uh kids to contribute to their college tuition themselves. And so Harvard, for example, says students are expected to cover$3,500 per year, right? So the expectation is that both parents and kids have skin in the game. So even when they're meeting that gap, even when they're gonna say we meet full need, they are still expecting a kid's working over the summer to contribute. They are still expecting um work study. They're expecting that parents are putting a large part of their incomes into the college tuition. And then the last thing is most of these schools that really serve kids with high need, they're not using the FAFSA. They have their own formulas for figuring out need-based aid. And so um it's really important to use the net price calculator to figure out what uh what this these schools would look like.

SPEAKER_01:

And how does a family find these no these schools with a no loan policy?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I can we can link some schools with no loan policies, but I would say even um even schools that don't have no loan policies when you're looking at schools with big endowments um and that don't offer merit aid, so they make it very clear you do not offer merit aid. Um those are the schools that tend to meet uh have higher need-based packages. And I can link some um sources for this, and I also think not to plug myself, but this is where working with an education consultant is super important because a lot of this is just having like a deep knowledge of um what schools are very generous and are and who and in whose institutional priority priorities are um meeting the need of need-based families.

SPEAKER_01:

And this would primarily be private schools.

SPEAKER_00:

These I'm only talking about private schools.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

In fact, I work um a fair amount with kids with high financial need um doing pro bono services, and a kid with a high achieving kid with a high financial need almost always um can get a lower price tag than a than their public institution.

SPEAKER_01:

Because um a public institution is cannot guarantee to meet all yeah, they they kind of have their hands tied in the different ways.

SPEAKER_00:

Lots of ways, yeah. And so they can't they can't recruit students in the same way, and they can't, they're not um they aren't commit they can't um commit to meeting the need of every school in the way that a private institution with a large endowment can.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, let's talk about increasing um merit aid.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so there's another set of kids who are not gonna qualify for need-based aid. We're gonna qualify for very little. Um, but have no fear. That doesn't mean you have to pay the sticker price. Now let's look at merit aid. So this is a different set of schools. We're looking at schools now who offer very, very strong merit aid packages. Um, and this is nuanced and hard to figure out that list, but there's a lot of data sets you can look at, and we'll link those. Um, Big J Educational Consultants that I've met before has some really nice workbooks where you can filter um through merit aid packages. But when we're looking at schools that offer really strong merit aid packages, we're gonna look at schools that are um, when you're doing your research and looking through these data sets, you're gonna look at schools that are offering merit aid to 30% of students or more. Okay, that's a pretty big number. Yeah, it means they're you, they're really intentionally using their endowment to attract high-achieving kids. Um, you wanna look at schools where your student is in the top quartile of the academic profile. Um, and then looking at schools with an admit rate between 50 and 80%. Those tend to be the schools that are offering larger merit aid packages. Um, when you're thinking about this with your kids, don't think about merit aid as a prize. It's not a prize. It's that these schools are trying to recruit and retain kids. And so if your kid is in the top quartile, that school is going to be using their fine the money they have to try to recruit your student to come. Um, when I'm talking with kids about college and the cost of college, we talk a lot about the trade-off between um merit packages and university prestige. So oftentimes the more prestigious a university is, um, they don't really have a need to offer big merit packages. If you get into Harvard, Harvard doesn't really need to recruit or doesn't really need to use merit aid to recruit and get you to come. Whereas a smaller school that is maybe slightly less prestigious, a Lafayette, um a Denison in Columbus, Ohio, now they're gonna be using merit packages to say, come to us. We're gonna drop your price, we're gonna drop our price tag. And these are hard conversations, right? Because your kid may be tempted by that prestigious university. And so we need to have that conversation. All right, higher prestige, we don't have any need-based aid, the merit and the merit's just not gonna come through. Um, it's really important when we have these conversations um to talk to kids about what does prestigious mean? It's very different than quality of education or rigor of coursework. And so just because you're maybe trading off for a bigger aid package for a less prestigious school does not mean your kid is going to have a less quality of education or have a less challenging academic experience.

SPEAKER_01:

We talked about this um last recording as well, in that um that big name school isn't necessarily going to be a good fit for your kid anyway. So maybe a smaller, smaller school, uh maybe uh a less um competitive school would be a better fit. And then along with that, they would have these opportunities for more um merit-based aid.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And just to um quickly talk about public universities, public universities are always an excellent, excellent option. In-state public universities are an excellent option for students. Um, I think sometimes even the in-state tuition can be challenging for certain families to pay for. And like I said before, I have found that pri I have kids who oftentimes um are paying a lower price tag at a private institution than they would at their public university. And I think that's a huge part of what I do as an independent education consultant is work with kids and try to figure out um if it's if it's a stretch even to pay for the public university. Let's look at private universities that would be so excited to have you who will recruit you, recruit you with these big merit aid packages. Um, and then if you have a child who's ambivalent about going to their local public university, um, let's let's find these, you know, these private schools that maybe potentially meet all their need, or they use these big merit packages. I'm a huge fan of public institutions, and I think that they um those are really great options as well.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I and I know we have more to talk about with um scholarship and and other types of aid opportunities, but let's really quickly here talk about um the domicile applications that foreign service um families can can um do. And now we have um we we officially fall under the law that um was um passed some time ago to support um family members and military um members in order for them to get the in-state tuition of their state of domicile. Um so now foreign service families and um fam uh foreign service members and their families all qualify as well. But I think it's really important to know that this is so it it now it's across the um board for every state, but you have to prove it to the institution. And so different states have different, I'm sorry, different universities have different requirements of what sort of paperwork that they would require in order to um determine a domicile. Um and so basically what that means is if you prove that you are a domicile of that state, you get in-state tuition. So for us, um, two of our kids are going to a public Virginia university. Um, and we switched to being Virginia um residents, I don't even know how maybe like five years before our our eldest applied. And it took a copious amount of paperwork to prove to the school that we were indeed um um Virginia residents, but um, and I should say, and just because the eldest was um approved as a Virginia resident doesn't didn't necessarily mean that the the middle one as well, even though they attend the same university. So um for us it was um we had to supply tax um like tax return copies, we had to uh supply W-2s and we had to supply um copies of orders that um that determine why we were overseas. So different universities will have different requirements. Um, but maybe you know a bit more about that, Hannah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I just think that this new law that came that was official in 2024 that sees uh puts State Department, there's been a law around for a very long time that um allows for um military families uh to a federal mandate that they uh can get in-state tuition, both where their duty state, either where their duty station is or where their state of domicile I never can say that word.

SPEAKER_01:

Domicile.

SPEAKER_00:

Domicile is, even if um they've been, they haven't been there for many, many years. It's now State Department families, foreign service families are also included under this law, which will hop hopefully make um this process a bit smoother and and it make it easier to appeal if a if a school is hesitant. Um I think the only my only thing I want to say is I have worked with families who say, well, grandma lives in Florida, so we're just doing in-state in Florida. I'm like, oh my gosh. So making sure you're doing your research about what that what paperwork you need to prove that you are in-state. And then please feel free to reach out to me if you have any issues uh with the appeal process. I've helped with those.

SPEAKER_01:

We found that, um, and again, it the institutions vary, but we found that the um the contact we had at the university where the boys are going, um, they were so helpful. And they were, they couldn't tell us what we had to do. Um, they couldn't say, you know, you have to supply these particular forms, but they were, they wanted to help. And I feel like um they, along with the admissions team, want kids to come to their university, right? They don't want to make it harder for you. They already know it's hard. So I do think that if you do your homework and find out, you know, what it would take for that particular university, they will, they will really support you in that process.

SPEAKER_00:

One thing I tell families, when you're doing appeals that involve either federal funding or state funding, people's jobs are on the line because if it's getting, if they get audited and you're saying you live in Virginia, but you actually don't, um, they've a they've submitted that paperwork to the state. Um, and they and it people institutions get audited and there's fraud in this um in this realm. And so, although it's extremely frustrating, admissions off or financial aid office needs to make sure they have all the paperwork in line. So when the state of Virginia comes back and says, you know, is Hannah Engel, like we need to say that Hanna Angel Robertser is actually should be paying in state, or that Hannah Engel Robinson actually gets the full, you know, federal grant. Um they need to have all of that paperwork to back them up.

SPEAKER_01:

That's a really important point.

SPEAKER_00:

It is as much as it's annoying, it is our tax, uh, it is the dollars that we pay in taxes that support these institutions. And so they're so this process is frustrating, but it is, I think it is important as well.

SPEAKER_01:

But also, um, it is worth the effort to prove your domicile if you are legitimately resident of a state, because that is a significant difference in the cost of tuition.

SPEAKER_00:

Grandma living in Florida is not a residence. So make sure you do your homework when your kids are young and figure out how you get that residence.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Let's talk about um other sources of funds, outside scholarships.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So outside scholarships. So kids often are like, well, there's this big gap into in what my family can pay and what the institution's offering me, but it's fine. I am, I got it. I'm applying to a lot of outside scholarships. So I'm here to be honest about outside scholarships. So, first, um, you have to be very, very, very strategic when applying to scholarships. I've had kids apply to 30, 40 scholarships. That is a time. Yeah. Suck. Many of the school call scholarships that don't require essays, it makes me wonder, right? So I, you know, they, yeah, I'll just say that. So it can be even the ones that are not a time suck. I I question their legitimacy. Um, and so I think having that conversation, if we're going to be spending 10 hours a week applying to scholarships, is that the best use of time, or does it make sense to get a job or focus on your AP and IB courses so that then you can get a higher marinade, just trade-offs with our time. Um, if you are gonna be applying for outside scholarships, looking at local scholarships first. And I know that's harder for foreign service kids, but even looking back at the community, potentially in the United States, where you're originally from, and seeing what type of local scholarships are offered. Those are when I've worked with kids, I find they have the most success, are most likely to get the scholarships when they are local scholarships. Um, a lot of scholarships are non-renewable. So great, you got maybe a thousand dollars, but that's just for one year. So when you're doing your calculations of am I going to go to this institution, remember, remember that that is just a one-year scholarship. Um I think the other side of the coin. So one is they take a lot of effort, and the scholarships are oftentimes very small. The flip side is if your kid gets a thousand dollar scholarship, I say to kids, okay, so you're making$15 an hour working at Chick-fil-A. I mean, that's pretty amazing. You just got a thousand dollars. Like, think about how many hours of work and think about that's a thousand dollars less of debt that you're taking out with the interest rate. And so I see both sides to this. I think that being strategic about what you're applying to and how much time you're spending. But then also if your kid gets the, you know, school ban booster scholarship that's a thousand dollars, like really celebrating that because that is that's their computer. That's a it's an it's not a small amount of money. And I think sometimes what happens with parents is when we're talking about big, big sums of money, so we sometimes can lose sight that a big number is just the sum of a lot of small numbers. And so it make, you know, so any, any, any money makes a difference, especially when you're looking at inch compounding interest, which which we are with um with college. Um, and then the last thing uh that I want to talk about is stacking versus deplacement. And this is something that you have to look at for each university. So schools that let you stack mean that you they give you your your financial aid, they give you your merit aid, they give your need-based aid. And if you get a big scholarship, you get to use that money to pay what you were expected to contribute. But there's a lot of schools that practice displacement. And I've had this happen with uh kids that I've worked with. I've had a kid who potentially I'm I'm making the numbers up, but a true story, potentially they were expect their family contribution was$12,000 a year. They're or that's what they were, that's what the school had them paying. They've got a big national scholarship, one of those big money ones. And they get their financial aid package back from the school, and they're still expected to pay$12,000 a year.

SPEAKER_01:

So they dropped the amount that the institution.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, wow. And this is this happens a lot. It's called displacement. Um, meaning they they do not allow you to stack the scholarships from the the merit aid and the financial aid from the school, and then also uh the outside scholarships. And so there is a chance that even if your kid gets a thousand dollar income, it's got a thousand dollar scholarship, now your eight package is a thousand dollars less.

SPEAKER_01:

How do you find out if the institution it's on the it should be on their website?

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, yeah. And so if your kid isn't planning on taking on going to school that practices displacement, I would caution against spending too much time. Um outside school. Outside scholarships.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

That's because if a school is expecting a kid to contribute$3,500 and they're doing all these algorithms about it, it does that expectation doesn't change even if a big award letter comes in. So now a school university is pocketing that scholarship. They're not, you're not, they're not, that school student itself is not seeing a dime of the Coca-Cola scholarship.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, the all altruistic me is thinking, okay, well, hopefully then some other kid got a larger financial for sure. But wow, that is interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. And I and I especially high need, high achieving high need kids, I think are oftentimes um most vulnerable to this because those are the kids that are getting the full rides into top institutions and then potentially also getting that Coca-Cola scholarship, that Dell scholarship. And all of a sudden, they're still really struggling to pay for university.

SPEAKER_01:

So those um families and students that are interested in these outside scholarships, besides, you know, looking at the poster boards in their local community, which of course you're overseas, so that's a little more challenging. I know some states have places where you can find a list of all of the outside. Is that yeah?

SPEAKER_00:

And I we can I can um connect some links to scholarships. Um, the number one is your college counselor, because they not your independent education consultant, but the college counselor at the school, because literally, like they are the ones who the Enerondville County police station still has a couple thousand dollars to give away and they're Calling up that high school and saying, hey, is it the same for international schools? Yeah, I think international schools may also have that uh that connection. Um and then I think there, I'll link some, there are some great resources for finding scholarships.

unknown:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Again, being strategic about what um this is what I'll say. I think that a lot of parents want their kids to have skin in the game financially. Right, right. And so oftentimes parents say that as an okay, now I've now you've applied to schools, now let's apply for scholarships. And I guess my, I'm not saying don't apply for scholarships. I think look for those hyper-local scholarships. I also think being strategic, are there other ways our son or daughter could have skin in the game? And what does that look like in the financial of it? And if that may be, you know, a job, there's other ways. Um, but I've had kids have a lot of a lot of success with outside scholarships. So that I am not trying to totally discourage. I just think being strategic is important.

SPEAKER_01:

No, that is important. That is really important. All right. Um, let's do you have any um other ways to cut costs?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes. Okay. So lots of other ways to cut costs. So, first, and what I love AP, IB courses. I have kids who go into top universities and I have kids who go into state schools, who have a full semester, of course, work they don't need to take because they've done so well on their AP and IB tests. And I'm a huge fan of dual enrollment courses, which is harder to do with the State Department, but not impossible. And I can also provide some resources with that. But um, dual enrollment courses are really great. I am such a believer of kids having exposure to what a university level course will look like before they go to college. And a dual enrollment course doesn't have an end-of-year test. And so, whereas an AP and IB course, you will only get credit if you score a certain score on them. With dual enrollment, you get credit if you pass the course.

SPEAKER_01:

Is it reasonable to think that someone could do a dual enrollment course and an IB load?

SPEAKER_00:

A full an IB diploma load? No. Okay. But I have lots of kids who I have lots of kids who take AP stats. You know, they're passionate about business, they're taking AP stats and they're taking an intro finance course at their local community college. Um, one thing I want to caution about dual enrollment courses. That is a college course, it will stay with you forever. Failing or getting a bad grade on your dual enrollment course will stay with you forever because that is now on your college transcript. So trade-off A, P and I B, you have to pass an end-of-year test. Dual enrollment course, you do not. Flip side, you start messing around second semester of senior year, or the course is legitimately really, really hard. You're taking, you know, linear algebra at your local community college and it's really, really hard. That's staying with you forever. And that I have had kids who've had implications with that has had implications for them because they don't they didn't understand. Um, summer jobs is huge, harder when you're State Department. Um, schools that offer co-ops. So a lot of schools and more are offering these co-op programs where you actually get paid while you're getting course credit. The most famous ones, Northeastern and Boston, University of Cincinnati has an amazing co-op program. These are ways kids can save money while they're in school. Um, my favorite money-saving tactic is being a residential advisor. You now no longer play housing. Um, that saves kids a ton of money, their second, third, and fourth year of college. Again, this is a well, this is a program you have to apply to. And so it's not guaranteed when you're doing that calculations with your kids. You can't say, well, we won't pay for housing sophomore, junior, and senior year because my kids are going to be a residential advisor. No, no, no, no, no. Some schools, that is a very selective program.

SPEAKER_01:

And it is a job. There are responsibilities that do with it.

SPEAKER_00:

But I had a lot of um my higher need financially kids have great success with the residential advisor, particularly if you're in a school in Boston, New York City where housing is really expensive, it can cut costs a lot. Um, another way to cut costs is off-campus housing, obviously, like living with family, um, or sometimes just like the apartment off-campus, that first year housing is so expensive. I mean, there's schools where it's a thousand dollars a month for, you know, a quad. So you can spend a lot less and be in a house. The house also lets you means that you can cook your own food. You're not stuck to a meal plan. Um, one side note: so meal plans are very expensive when you're looking at the cost of colleges. Um I've had many kids try to appeal, especially that first year being on a meal plan. And schools are, I have not had a lot of success with that. And um, one of the reasons schools have told me is that there's been a lot of news around kids who who can't afford college, going hungry, going to school and not having money um for food. And so something that's like very, very, very important for schools is they're making sure that first year a kid is housed and uh and eating well. Um, there's some irony in that because the meal plan is shocking, shockingly expensive.

SPEAKER_01:

I would say um, I'm trying to think of all of the universities that we looked at. I think all of them required first year to live on campus. And um the school where the boys are now, the our freshmen, he the meal plan changed. Now it's uh it's um all you can eat. So it became even more expensive, the meal plan. Um, but some of the schools that we looked at required two years on campus, one even required four years on campus. So I guess it's an important question to explore if you are maybe considering off-campus housing. Yeah. Um, and make sure your kid can cook. Yeah. Which is another fact.

SPEAKER_00:

So I think don't bank on being able to appeal a meal plan. I I have not had excess with success with that, even with my very high need students um financially, but uh I do think taking into consideration that that could be an expense you only have for one year. Um, something a lot of people don't realize is there could actually scholarships for upperclassmen. And so don't stop, and sometimes those are less competitive, right? Because less people know about them. So don't stop your scholarship search after your first year. There could be research-based scholarships, lots of ways to cut costs that um are available, not just that year before you enter college. And then the fast track programs. So there's really cool options for kids who know what they want to do, who can get it done more quickly. Um, so that's a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_01:

The other thing that I um would add is um at every university, um, professors are um allotted small amounts of funds in order to do their own research because um professors are um part of their job is to also not just to teach, but also to like continue their own studies and do research. And they are allotted funds to do these research projects to use at their discretion. And sometimes they'll use that to fund the study. Sometimes they'll use that to fund um assistants and students to help them with the study. So um it's worth if especially if there's a um a professor that your kid clicks with that first year, then they can get onto that study with this professor. And then not only that are they learning, you know, research methods and um really connecting with a specific um point of study, but they're also making money. It's not a lot, yeah. Um, but it is it is it is pocket money.

SPEAKER_00:

And I do, I think you're bringing up work study. So when you get your aid package from the federal government, work study will be one of the items on there. So, what is work study? Work study is a um opportunity the university provides where you can work on campus, get paid, usually not very high. That money goes straight to the student. Um, and so the student can use it to pay for housing, pay for tuition, or pay for Chick-fil-A. Um one conversation I've had with kids is if they're in a uh if they are located in an area where there are opportunities for higher paying jobs. Sometimes the work study jobs aren't um the highest paying jobs, but like my work study job was working at the library and I did my homework while I did it. And so I think that there's lots of opportunities for work study jobs that potentially either uh have an academic benefit, like working for a professor, or but are less rigorous than um serving tables.

SPEAKER_01:

Oh, there is a lot to be said about the service industry.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, some helpful tips. And I know this has been a lot. Um we're almost done. We're almost really okay. This is my favorite topic though. So, number one is always submit your FAFA. You don't know when you could potentially need a loan. And um, you cannot get a federal government loan unless you've submitted your FAFA. Um, all kids qualify for a certain amount from the federal government, no matter income levels. And so um I just I'm so it's so important to me that all kids submit FAFSA. Additionally, there are some schools that won't look at merit aid unless, not all schools, unless you've submitted your FAFA. Um, and then also it could be a good finance, savvy financial decision for your parents to or the parents to take out that loan. If your money in the stock market is making tons of money and a low interest rate loan may be make sense financially. Again, I'm not a financial advisor, but for some families, even high earners, it may make sense to pay part of the college tuition. Um, your your money may have more value uh being invested than in uh paying for uh finances. I mean, and then paying for the college tuition. Um parents get nervous about um submitting FAFSA, and this is nuanced, but colleges are business and very, very, very small number of schools are knead, meaning they are not looking at a family's financial situation when determining whether to accept the student. And so if you are checking the box that you are applying for financial aid, this people worry that this is going when they are uh when schools are running their own predictive models to make sure they can meet their budget, that this may hurt their student because this means the student is not gonna pay the full price tag. My suggestion for kit for parents, if this is your concern and you're not dependent on those merit aid packages and those financial aid packages, but you would but you're listening to my advice and you're gonna make sure you have access to that loan, you can always do submit the FAFSA in May. So once your kid is gone, so you don't apply for financial aid. Once the kid has been accepted, just submit the FAFSA, then you'll have access to that federal student loan that all kids have the right to. Um, next helpful tip public schools. So public schools in-state, great option, oftentimes the most affordable option for kids out of state, this can be insanely expensive. So if your kid is telling you, I, you know, your residency is in Colorado and they want to go to a big football school in the Midwest, look at those costs of attendance out of state because they really, really vary. So my example is University of Michigan,$84,000 out of state. But if your kid wants to go to a big football school in the Midwest, Purdue's$45,000. Same goes for those southern state schools, really vary. If your kid wants to be in that warm weather and that, you know, Greek life football culture, they really those out of uh, those public out of state tuitions really vary. Um, if something changes in your finances, you can recalculate your SAI, you can go through an appeal process. Um, that's really important for people to remember, especially given our current climate with federal government workers. Um, remembering that when you're submitting your FASF, it's doing that double look back. Um, so two tax years before. Um, if your kid is uh getting big merit scholarships, they must maintain their GPA to keep those scholarships. Um, and then I think the last thing I want to say is that the landscape's really changing. Um, the Big Beautiful bill has it had big implications for federal aid. And so uh just a disclaimer that um that things will be changing, and it's a very dynamic time. So um again, kind of a plug for working with an independent education consultant. Our job is to keep uh keep on top of all these changes, and so um I think the bet the benefit can be huge um with working with someone.

SPEAKER_01:

It feels like it's a very squishy formula for determining um what financial aid you'll get, merit-based, need-based, and outside scholarship. But it also feels like there's a lot of um advocacy that um you as a parent can do that the student can do on their own behalf. And then the conversation isn't just you know, you submit the form and then you're done. Like depending on the university, there are there are places where you can have conversations with the university in order to um discuss and potentially change the price tag.

SPEAKER_00:

Um so when appeal you can appeal financial aid, but um something that as an independent educational education consultant we do. I think it's really important. If you're going to appeal, you need two offers. Well, there's many different ways to appeal. This could be a whole podcast. But if you're trying to appeal just based on you want to make sure you're comparing offers from two very similar schools.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, and we can feel free to reach out to me and I can give a lot more information on actually appealing um financial, financial aid packages.

SPEAKER_01:

So maybe that'll will be a future podcast, but we can um we can talk about it at that point. But just know that um the price that the school quotes you or gives you isn't necessarily I mean, depending on the school, depending on if it's private or public. There's a lot of different asterisks here, but um this this is there's a little bit of wiggle room. Um, but like Hannah was saying, like the point of the point of this conversation was to help um kind of shed a lot of lights onto um making university uh more accessible and affordable. And so hopefully we have helped to really highlight some of the different ways that we can um either get more money coming to you or um maybe get the the price tag at the end of the uh at the end of the the tunnel a little bit smaller. Any final thoughts, Hannah?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I just think remembering that like financial fit is a really important part of the equation. And the earlier you talk about it, there's there's as I always say, there's 4,000 plus schools in the United States. We haven't even talked about Europe, Canada, um, Australia. So lots of ways to not pay that sticker price.

SPEAKER_01:

So a little foreshadowing there that that is a future conversation. Um, but thank you so much for listening. Um, we hope that we've um helped answer a few questions or um highlighted some questions that you do need to like do your homework on. And um, we look forward to sharing another podcast soon about yet another topic that relates to um foreign service kids attending universities. If you have any um questions or points that you'd like us to um research or or um cover, please do let us know. And thank you so much for listening. Thank you.