Not to Forgive, but to Understand
A podcast series discussing topics in genocide studies with scholars and individuals deeply involved in understanding the complexities of genocide and its perpetrators. Presented by writer, and scholar of Genocide Studies Sabah Carrim, along with co-host Luis Gonzalez-Aponte. Tune in to this podcast series for insightful discussions on pressing topics in the field.
Not to Forgive, but to Understand
Edward Westermann: Thirst, Dehydration, and Water Sanitation in the Holocaust
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Edward Westermann is the Theodore Zev and Alice R. Weiss HEF Chair in Holocaust Studies and Visiting Professor in the Department of History at Northwestern University. He is the author of Drunk on Genocide: Alcohol and Mass Murder in Nazi Germany, which received the 2023 Yad Vashem International Book Prize for Holocaust Research.
In this conversation, Professor Westermann discusses his research on thirst, water deprivation, sanitation, disease, and embodied suffering in the Holocaust. The interview considers how dehydration shaped prisoner experience in camps and transports, how water scarcity intersected with starvation and illness, and how control over water functioned within the broader system of domination and dehumanization.
We previously spoke with Professor Westermann about Drunk on Genocide. That conversation is linked below.
Previous interview: https://youtu.be/z0rLwBDWPXQ?si=nJuJTQld8plp5rdA
00:00 Opening
02:23 Introduction
02:52 Why Study Thirst in the Holocaust?
05:49 “Thirst is Dreadful, Worse Than Hunger”
10:46 Reconstructing Thirst Through Historical and Medical Sources
15:22 Water Sources in Camps and Killing Sites
26:22 SS Access to Water and Prisoner Deprivation
30:33 Latrines, Excrement, and the Lack of Water
37:58 Dehumanization, Disease, and Misattributed Deaths
44:44 Water Deprivation as Control
49:57 Humiliation, Perpetrator Behavior, and the Boger Swing
55:03 Why Has Thirst Been Marginalized in Holocaust Studies?
1:02:37 Charlotte Delbo, Useless Knowledge, and Survivor Testimony
1:03:09 Water, Genocide, and Other Historical Contexts
1:08:04 The Ethical Challenges of Researching Thirst
1:12:52 Book Recommendations
1:14:15 Closing