Technique Over Ingredients: The Truth About Pizza Consistency - Brandon Herriott

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Brandon Herriott is a pizza and Italian food specialist at Performance Food Group Roma in Pittsburgh, where his team sells over 30,000 cases a week to independent operators. In this episode, Brandon talks about what operators get wrong about technique vs. ingredients, how to get more from your food rep, the Detroit style pizza opportunity, where pizza trends are heading, and what separates great operators from good ones. If you buy food from a distributor, this conversation will change how you approach that relationship. Keywords: pizza distributor, food rep, PFG, pizza technique, pizza trends, independent pizzeria.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I feel like sometimes we're looking at all these products and all these things when we really shouldn't be I think that's the bigger bigger problem with the new young people in working in the pizza shop and they don't have the technical and don't do the right thing. That to me is a bigger bigger problem than a tomato or tomato or whatever. The average American won't be able to tell. Don't go to don't go to dinner with me because I pull apart every single item in a in a pizza bed. But the average American doesn't care. Teaching the technique, I think, is more important than that.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Where in Michigan are you from?

SPEAKER_00 1:03

So I grew up in Northwest Ohio.

SPEAKER_01 1:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

In Lima, and then I moved to Ann Arbor.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

So I lived in Ann Arbor. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

You got it really in your blood then.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Yeah, yeah. I used to live uh less than a mile from the big house. So it was it was a good time. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

That's that's like one of my I was just telling my wife the other day, like I love, I have boys and I love taking them out to events, but we haven't had a college football experience.

SPEAKER_03 1:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And here in Tampa, we have USF, but they play at Raymond James, and it's like it's not the same as going to like, you know, going to the big house or going going to the going to the shoe or even going up to Gainesville, it's totally, it's a totally different experience. So I'm looking forward to taking my boys up for a college college.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

College, to me, college football is very unique in its fandom. Like it it's it is 100% authentic fanatic. It's not like fly by night fan. It's it is fanatic. Like everybody's more vested, it seems like in their college football team. And and the debate between the SEC and the Big Ten over the past few years has been uh increasing. So it's been it's been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

Yeah, I bet, man. And doing a show around sports is just fun too. I'll be I'll be checking it out. Well, I I hit I hit start just because I like to kind of soft roll into it. Yeah. But tell us tell us who you are. And and first off, thank you for taking the time to come, you know, take time out of your day to talk to me about pizza or whatever we're gonna get into. Really appreciate that. It it doesn't it means a lot when people spend their time with me. So thank you for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

No, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:49

Tell us who you are.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

So man, athlete, ex-athlete, obviously. I aged out of that. But uh yeah, just food got in my blood early, man. 15 years old working as a dishwasher and fast forward, and I've I've done about every job you can think of. My first my first cook job was at the Sabaro, believe it or not, uh, in the pizza business.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Sabarro's.

SPEAKER_00 3:16

Yeah, yeah, in the mall, man. Slanging pies. It's it's funny because then I don't know what they do now, but then they made all the dough from scratch and all the stuff. That's where I first learned how to do it. Um my my grandmother on my mom's side uh had a diner that she owned, and I grew up as a little kid. I helped her make uh fresh made pasta and dry the noodles and do all that kind of stuff. It was just a uh a big part of what I was doing and who I was. Uh, went to college, graduated with my bachelor's degree, and couldn't figure out what I wanted to do, and I was like, I like this business, man. So I went into the restaurant business and never looked back and ended up owning uh a couple places. At that point, when I went to ownership, I went more bar and grill, but I always still had pizza on the menu, and I always made fresh dough, always had deck ovens, I always like to do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

Where were you at at that point?

SPEAKER_00 4:16

I lived in Michigan and then we I moved to Pittsburgh in 2011 and opened a place across from PNC Park. But we we had places outside of Detroit and uh Pittsburgh.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

You know, in the Midwest, and I don't know, maybe it's like this everywhere, but pizza and bar goes very well together.

SPEAKER_03 4:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:36

Some of some of my favorite places, and I'm growing up in Michigan, were pizza from bars. You know, Art's Bar and Lansing, Corey's Bar and Lansing, like these were some of my favorite places.

SPEAKER_00 4:47

Yeah. Yeah, uh the it's the uh the pub scene. It's like a pizza pub and and whatever. So it was always a great seller. And I still had it in my blood. I still loved it. So that's what I was doing. Unfortunately, with the restaurant business, I had a business partner. We didn't see eye to eye on certain things, and I decided to sell out to him, sold out to him, and then I started doing uh some consulting and stuff. I was traveling around doing consulting and and loved it, loved helping people out uh in the business. You know the business is tough, man. It is so anytime you like you can help each other or lend a helping hand, I'm I'm all for it. I think it's it's very good to be collaborative and and uh and talk shop a lot. And then the hard part with that was I was a one-man team, so while I was entrenched in doing my my uh consulting, I wasn't selling the next gig.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

It's hard to yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

It's hard to sell the next gig. And and and then ironically, my ex-wife said something about going going to work with me and selling the the gigs and me doing the gigs. And that point I was like, I should find something else to do. And uh so I went into I went into uh food distribution. I I called uh one of my old reps and said, Hey, what was it like working for your boss? He told me if I ever wanted a job, he'd hire me. And uh he said, Wait, you're getting into food sales? And I said, think about it. And he goes, Let me call you right back. And uh phone rang about 10 minutes later and he said, I'm working with PFG now, and uh my boss will be here. That was on a Sunday afternoon. He said, My boss will be here Tuesday to talk to you if you're serious.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

That was easy. The rest is history, man.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

So you didn't you didn't struggle to to transition into your next day.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

No, you know, it's it is different, obviously, you know. Um and you leave something like the kitchen was my safe haven. I knew everything about the kitchen, right? I knew how all the equipment worked, I knew how everything I was making, all my all my stuff. So I went from that to obviously I had to learn some different traits and some different things. And I and I'll be honest with you, I learned how uh to bite my tongue a little bit. I mean, you go from a locker room to a kitchen, you kind of say whatever pops into your head. You can't say that in corporate America, man.

SPEAKER_01 7:17

Not even in the test kitchen, huh?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

No, no, it's there's no safe haven. There's big brothers everywhere. So, but I you know that that was a learning curve, and then just uh the amount I'm on computers and stuff, it was a little more of a learning curve. But yeah, I went into sales. I started as a sales rep for PFG, opening the Pittsburgh market for them. I was the the third sales rep they hired in the market, and fast forward, PFG bought Reinhard in 2020, a couple months before the world shut down. And they called me up. My book of business was 90 plus percent pizza in Italian. I learned with PFG, I learned about Roma Foods, and I was like a moth to a light man, and that was that was my thing. I liked the guys, I liked the the story and the history of the brand and and the fact that the the family was still involved in it. Like all those things sung to my heart. So I navigated that. So they asked me to come in as a pizza Italian specialist. I gladly did so, and then I became a brands manager, then I became a specialty segment specialist, then I became a I've had like seven title changes. I think it's six or seven. So it's uh now I I'm a lead brands manager. I have a small team of specialists that work underneath me and and um and do a really great job. Uh we've been fortunate. Pittsburgh's one of the over the past three years, has been the largest growing uh opco in the country for us. And uh we've been we've we've been having fun, man. It's a lot of work, but it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Very nice. I and you know, there's a lot of buzz around pizza scene in Pittsburgh. I see a lot of a lot of of my favorite guys, not just you know, content creators, but just good dudes in general. Yeah. Really doing their thing in Pittsburgh. So gotta be something going on, going right over there.

SPEAKER_00 9:06

Yeah, I moved here in 2011. I got married and got divorced and stayed. I mean, there's a lot of good people here. So remarried now.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Did better, did better. It's uh just over a year now. But yeah, things are going great, and and there's a lot of great guys. Like, it's funny because one of the things that people have like, oh, you should do like the one bite app and and rate people, people would follow you. I'm like, I can't do that. Like, I I either sell these guys stuff or I want to sell these guys stuff. I can't criticize their pizza. Like, that's not part of what I what I've got going on for me.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Very, very counterproductive to the process.

SPEAKER_00 9:45

But but there's guys out there that, you know, obviously I love promoting the people we sell and stuff, but there's guys out there I don't sell that I've been trying to sell for seven or eight years. Great pie, great people. I love them. Um, Anthony Bodamo from Bodamo's Pizza, like that cat's great. Yeah, won't buy off of me.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

He ain't doing it.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

Nope. He's he's had his stuff set, he's good, and I I respect him. I mean, his manager, my my wife used to babysit his manager. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we're we're tight with these people.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Dude, come on, I know you. You know me.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, yeah. I'll take them out and buy him dinner, and like, hey, if anything ever changes, let me know. You never know what the future holds.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Well, I think I think that's more so what business is about than than the actual transacting of businesses. How do we build in and maintain relationships? Because who knows what happens a year from now or two years from now or any of that.

SPEAKER_03 10:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

You remember the people who you who you have a good relationship with. For sure. How did you so you know in in you know, developing your career on the sales side, what did you find was like, as an operator, we you almost hate, not you don't hate the sales guys, but you're not like, you're not like, let me let me find a sales guy to come in here and talk to me today.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

I was that I was that owner operator that a sales rep could walk up and ask the bartender if the if the owner or manager was there, and they would turn and look at me and I would say, I'm not here. I'm not here. I'm not here. Right in front of them. Like I I hated sales reps, I really did. So I don't have a like I'm not gonna go in and pitch people and like I don't have the what they call it, the elevator pitch or the the the 60. I don't do any of that stuff, man. I walk in and I want to learn about your business. Like, what what can you do? And and then the next thing is is can I add value to your business? And can you add value to mine? Like neither one of us work for a nonprofit. Like it is what it is. Like, here are my price, here's my pricing, here's my things, here's where I think I can help you. And if I can't, you know, one of the only things that you like I said, restaurant business is really, really tough business.

SPEAKER_02 11:58

Yeah, very good.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

As an owner, the one thing that you can hang your hat on is you make final decision, right? I'm never gonna be there when you do pay your payroll taxes, not gonna be there. So it's up to you to decide what's best for your business. I'm just gonna say if I can be a part of it, great. If not, you know, here's my car. If anything changes, let me know.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Is it I mean, you never want to trust a guy that says he can solve all your problems, right? Like I can do everything that you need. We can we can do it all. But on the other hand, there's we're probably as operators missing opportunities by closing the door on some of these conversations or you know, learning something from a person who's seen it from a different perspective, or maybe he's working with one of our competitors and they know about products we don't use. Like, how do you how do you continuously reapproach that conversation when someone is and you know you can help them and it's like, dude, come on, man, let's just talk.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Well, my biggest thing, and you you kind of touched on it already, is communication, right? So when I what I'm talking to is like, all right, so how much communication have you had with with your provider, your purveyor, your distributor? Like um right now is if you're using a bleached and bromated flour um in Pennsylvania, has anybody had a conversation with you about that, what that looks like in the future? That's going away. Um they they they doing unbleached unbromated flour, Ardent Mills in August is gonna stop adding bleach and bromate into their flour. Some of some of our people are using that, and their distributor hasn't even said anything to them about it. And I'm like, you gotta talk about it. What's the difference is uh you know, you're gonna take longer for fermentation to get the same rise, or you're gonna need to use uh a different yeast that has uh a relaxer in it. Like you gotta have those conversations with people.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

Yeah. Well, you touched on it, it was one of gonna be one of my later questions about, you know, the whole all the news around bleaching bromade flour. From a from a distributor standpoint, how does that affect your business? You know, other than having to stock different products, it sounds like you're already trying to have the conversations and preparing your customers for what's due to come.

SPEAKER_00 14:15

Yeah, I mean, I I I think we're a few years behind where I thought uh we were gonna go with unbleached, unbromated, because of the pandemic, I think pushed a lot of things, people put it put a lot of things on the sideburner, right? Um when you look at over 160 countries have outlawed bromate and and for decades now uh that started. So I I've I've always had that right right on the back burner, and I've already had a lot of people transition over to unbleached on bromate. And so it it that hasn't been an issue, really. It's it's really about coaching the what's what's different about the flower. And and and really, you know, the the color might be a little bit off, but to the average of the novice eye, they're not gonna notice it. It's really about how fast that dough will rise. That's the biggest difference. So I yeah, I I've we we've already got a whole line that we unbleached, unbromated only in that whole line.

SPEAKER_01 15:19

Yeah, I guess that was really where I was gonna go next is how do you decide which products you're gonna you guys are gonna carry, or if if that's even your decision to make. How do you decide which what to carry, what to import, what are customers asking you for?

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Yeah, so I I work a lot with purchasing. As a matter of fact, my next two days, that's all I'm doing is working with our purchasing team on some new items we're bringing in. I found a really cool imported buffalo milk uh stretchatella. I'm really excited about. So, but but yeah, with the with as far as the flowers and stuff like that, it's the twofold that you don't think of. I want to try and simplify it as much as possible for our Salesforce. So our Salesforce can give you information pretty easily, right? We have like branded products. When you talk about the unbranded products, it's pretty it's pretty easy, right? You know whether it's Pillsbury or General Mills, all true, so blah, blah, blah. You know what those things are. So it's the stuff, the ancillary things, like our private brand brands, which are all packed by major players, right?

SPEAKER_01 16:23

One of the big guys, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:25

Yeah. So it's like, okay, well, in that, what do you do? So in ours, we have our Roma brands, we have our Villa Frizoni brands, our Culinary Secret, our I Solidity. It to me, it was really simple. Take the Roma brands, and in August, uh, several of those are made by Ardent Mills, which is going to go unbleached on bromated. So I just took the rest of them and said, those are all going to be unbleached on bromated August 1st.

SPEAKER_02 16:52

There it is.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

And then the other side of it, you can still get bleached and bromated. That's going to be in our Villa Fazzoni and our culinary sequence. That way there's a clear message. It's a clear, do you want 13% protein? Do you want 14% protein? Do you want bleached and bromated? Do you want unbleached unbromated? And then it's easy to go to the right path.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Is that something that's going to be available nationwide, or is that starting in Pittsburgh?

SPEAKER_00 17:20

And so our opcos are individual operating companies. Everything has uh guardrails, but inside those guardrails, we all act as our own companies. So my products mix is completely different than Tampa's. Then I do know a couple people down there, though. If you need to make some phone calls and get some stuff down there, we'll talk offline.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

I work, I deal with the guys in Orlando, so yeah, we'll talk about the best path to get, you know, to do something.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

But yeah, there's some there's some really cool stuff. Yeah, it it's a little bit different. That said, I mean, there's a lot of flour carried across the country. Like everybody's selling flour.

SPEAKER_02 18:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

It's it's the cheese mix that gets a little bit different because I'm in I'm in a market where you're more likely to see two different provolone blends blended together on a pizza than you are to see straight mozzarella. Really? Yeah. Yeah, man. It's a provolone market. So it's all like Mott's probe is primarily what it is. But I'm more surprised to see straight Mott's than I am surprised to see straight probe. There's a lot of people who do straight probe.

SPEAKER_02 18:30

Really? That's pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 18:34

But your mozzarella is still coming like Wisconsin.

SPEAKER_00 18:39

Wisconsin and California or Kenya.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

There it is.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:43

What do what do operators, when you're talking to folks, what are they really getting wrong? Like when it comes to product choice or, you know, everyone develops their brand and they want to be best and we want to have the highest quality. Everyone wants to say, hey, we're selling the best ingredients, but then they have to go back to someone like you and have the conversation about what we need to bring in, what we need to offer. Like, how are you advising them on that, on taking the best route there?

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I gotta word this so I don't get in trouble with that.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

Well, well, I only say that because I only say that because everyone says that, but in reality, it feels like we're all using the same shit.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

So it's funny, like I said, certain things, like our our stuff is is packed, like I said, by one of the major players. Most of those other places are too, right? When you talk about tomato products, I'm gonna blanket statements this. If you're buying tomato products out of California, they're all great. And the same, I've been out there and uh I've been on a tomato picker and rode it through the fields. Those those um farmers, I talked to them, they grow for all of the Packers. PCP, Escalon, Stanislaus, they they they grow and and sell to all of those. Now, my question as soon as I found that out was which one's the hardest one? Like who who do you have the hardest time giving product to because they're really picky about what it is, right? So that's the that's what I wanted to know.

SPEAKER_01 20:20

It's who's who who has the tightest standards around the products they're taking.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

There it is. So that's what that's what I wanted to know. And and then people ride the what's hot and what's this and you know, um pinza and hydration and like all the catchphrase words and stuff like that. And at the end of the day, I mean I could make uh a pizza with a 58% or a 65% or a 70% hydration. And I depending on how I what I do with the dough, it's hard for you to tell the difference. To me, I think we spend too much time on this is so this is somebody who sells food for a living, tell you this. I feel like sometimes we spend too much time looking at all these products and all these things when we really should be teaching the technique. I think that's the biggest problem with the the new you get young people in working in these pizza shops and they don't have the techniques down pat and don't do the right thing. And that to me is a bigger, bigger problem than if you use if you use a PCP tomato or a Stanislaus tomato or a Escalon or whoever, the average American won't be able to tell. Don't go to don't go to dinner with me because I pull apart every single item in a in a pizza. But but the average American doesn't care. They want they want consistent food more than they want great food. So teaching teaching the technique, I think, is more important than anything.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

More more important than which product you choose because there's where you get more control. I understand that. What's what do you You advise folks that want to compare products. I I remember that too from my days from dealing with sales rep was hey, listen, what what's what's your cheese this week? What's your what's your sauce this week? What's your tomatoes this week, which we've seen a lot of you know, tomatoes going crazy? How do you guys handle that from your side of it? You know, how are you continuing to protect your own margins while trying to give the best possible price and you know sell it?

SPEAKER_00 22:27

Yeah, so I'm really lucky with where I work. Like I said, operating company, our operating company is different within my my work, but we're pretty transparent. We're pretty uh, you know, here's what it costs, here's what your markup is. Do you want a percentage markup or do you want a flat markup? Here's what it's gonna be, here's what it's gonna look like. We'd rather we we want to keep growing. We don't want uh nickel and dime you to death. We want to keep growing. Uh it's not like that everywhere. So I I'm pretty lucky in that, in that, in that means. But to me, it's always a fair, a good product at a fair price. Um it's in our mission statement. You know what I mean? It's it it it is, and it we see the industry going more towards forcing computer orders, forcing this, not seeing or talking to actual people that often. And and and our old CEO a few years ago was doubling down on it, like we're hiring 2,700 more sales rep. We want more people on the street. But the the personal aspect of it is not gonna go away. So having that relationship with your sales rep, I mean, that's it it's invaluable. People buy from people, not companies.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

Yeah, it well it I think there's a place for some of the tools, and and you know, obviously the PFG as a company is taking some steps to offer more more tools and support on the back end, um new order platform. I've been kind of playing around with the food cost and recipe builder um uh on that side of things. So how do you how do you then through that relationship encourage folks to use some of the tools and some of the things that that can also help you save some money or improve your processes? Because I think, you know, I think we forget that this relationship is more partnership than than vendor client.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, for sure. It's funny. I I always when I was a sales rep, I always the first thing I said is I want to be a partner of yours. I just I specialize in procurement. That's it. I'm I'm here to get you the products you need. And I look at it too, like when you talk about like uh not wanting to talk to another salesman, not wanting uh to look at it, and you're not looking at different things. You'd stop at a different grocery store driving down the street. You know what I mean? Like, oh, a new grocery store opened. Let me see what they got. I've used that analogy so many different times that it's crazy. Like, and also if you kept stopping and you always bought milk, bread, and eggs, and I use this analogy with our procurement team a few years ago. I said, if I if you stopped at the grocery store and you always got milk, bread, and eggs every Monday for the week, and the same grocery store kept being out of bread, would you keep stopping at another grocery store to get bread? Or would you go to another grocery store and get milk, bread, and eggs? Exactly. You gotta make sure you have everything in stock. But no, I might get your uh I might get your opco in trouble here. Uh, we actually have customer engagement managers. So each district of salespeople has a customer engagement manager. They normally have a couple different districts, but they go in and they will help you set up sheet-to-shelf inventories, help you do cost analysis on your top 10 selling items. They they actually can help with um if you use a partnered um uh like a sales platform, they can help if there's any tie-in with that. They can do all help you with all those kind of things. So, like I said, I I'm blessed in Pittsburgh, man. We got some pretty cool stuff going on. Yeah, we're gonna talk. But uh it's pretty it's pretty great. And listen, man, we're right now, knock all wood. We got a couple months left to go, but this is it third straight year we're leading in in independent case growth in the in the country. So it's uh Maryland's knocking on our doorstep, though. I don't want to talk too much. Chef John will get mad over.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

What do you um what do you what's your advice when folks start to request a bunch of samples? That's I'm like a sample guy. I'm always like, well, I want to try it before we before we move on to you can't, I mean, so there's there's twofold, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:39

There's certain commodity items that it's hard with, so it is difficult, but you have to try it to sell it. You're not gonna sell something to a customer you haven't tried. So to me, you have to sample it. You have to, if it's a really expensive item or it's a hard-to-sample item, sometimes we'll we'll cryove them ourselves. We have the machines to do it in-house, our test kitchen, uh, or we'll uh, you know, do sealed jars of different things. We have like uh little eight-ounce sample jars. But for the most part, it's just all right, you need a gallon of you know, garlic aioli, send them a gallon of garlic aioli, then try it, right?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

If there's anything that's like a case of chicken, you know, that's hard to kind of like you need to sample a case of wings, really.

SPEAKER_00 27:26

I I guess some people are really picky or whatever, so it's a guaranteed case sale. I guarantee the sale. If you don't like it, tell me. We'll come pick it up and throw it in a dumpster or donate it or do whatever, you know what I mean? Um, but that's that's that's either guaranteed case sale, worst case scenario, but yeah, you should you should sample the products that that you want to sell.

SPEAKER_01 27:47

What's your who's your ideal customer?

SPEAKER_00 27:50

A customer, Anthony Badamo. And I'll tell you why. Come on, Anthony. A customer that's hard to get is worth getting. Because they're loyal, they're they're uh they're built relationships, and they do those things. And and that's what we're doing. Um and to get somebody else that reciprocates that, normally the harder ones to get are worth getting. And I say jokingly with Anthony's uh, but those that's been my if somebody will you walk in a door and you walk up and say, Hey, I'm branding with POG, like, oh yeah, I've heard a lot about you. Let me fill out a a form. Like I will start buying some stuff from you next week. Red flags. You know what I mean? It's gotta be the tell me more about your business, let's go back and forth. Like it has to be um a building process. Like I keep telling everybody when when you know you get into sales or whatever, it it's a lot like baseball. You know what I mean? If you if you fail two out of three times, you go to the Hall of Fame, you you're doing okay. You get a lot of no's in this business, you know? So uh so yeah, I I like I I want somebody that's uh that that knows their stuff, that's inquisitive, and is it is I almost say a tough sell, but not an easy sell.

unknown 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

How does how does the recent news with restaurant depot you know being acquired change your model in business, especially with you know, given the rise of just independent restaurants and pizzerias in general?

SPEAKER_00 29:20

It really doesn't. Okay. So it if anything, there may be some people that have been restaurant depot people for a long time that don't like the fact that Cisco bought them and may open up, but I don't know that it's gonna be a a big change or a big swing one way or the other.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

When you're when you guys are, you know, prospecting, you know, new potential business, how much how much effort is you know really put into the independent operator? In my mind, and and I've worked with a lot of a lot of independents, there's almost this hesitation to to work with a with a distributor because they feel like, oh, we're not gonna get the best price, we're too small, or they they can't get any specialty products. I I'm only doing you know, tomatoes sourced in South Tampa behind the bridge. So it's like, how how do you how do you you know go after business like that? Or is that business that is you know that you wait to come to you?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

No, no, that's we go knock on doors, man. I don't I'm not I don't know if you're aware of this, but uh performance food service is not the largest distributor in the U.S. They are the largest distributor of independent pizza in Italian in the U.S. Believe it. So, and have a larger percentage of that market than any distributor has of any market. Yeah, so it's a it's a big number. It's around 35 percent. So, so that's something we we like, we go knock on those independents. That's our our business model is independent restaurant, mom and pop shops. Like that's that's our bread and butter. And um, but I I'll tell you what, you know, we were new to Pittsburgh. We started shipping here in 2011 and out of Richmond, Virginia, which if you have a map, it doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

But we were shuttling. They were like a hub for you guys, though. Hit that.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

They were shuttling up to uh Morgantown. We were picking up at Morgantown, and that's where it was getting delivered.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Yeah, a lot of bosses in Richmond, too.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yes, yes, there are. But yeah, so there's uh, you know, that that independent and and growth in Pittsburgh was the hardest part, was like there's a couple of independent distributors here in in Pittsburgh. Pen Mac, which ended up getting purchased by Greco, which Greco ended up getting purchased by Cisco. That's been a whole thing. And then uh Napis is another local distributor up here, Aldo's. So there's like some local ones. Aldo's is more Greek, but does do some Italian. But the when we first got here, it was um you can't get specialty products, you can't get this pro loan, you can't get this, you can't do that. And I I'm not lying to you. I I've walked in and uh, you know, hey, I'm not interested in this. I said, I'm not here to to you know try to win you over or whatever. I just want you to know you you told your salesman he was lying to you when he when he told you he had this provolone. I just wanted to drop a log of it off so you know he wasn't lying. I'll see you later. You know what I mean? Like that was it. I just want you to know we're not out here lying. We're not here. I had a um a salesman, a sales rep from another distributor tell people that we were selling knockoff all traps. I'm like, so you're telling me one of the largest uh flour you know, mills and general mills is selling to one of the largest distributors in the U.S. and and they're getting knockoff products behind their back. Like, I don't know. It's it's just so weird.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

So there's some we we would risk that relationship.

SPEAKER_00 32:54

Yeah, yeah. There's some grimy stuff. Now, and there is like there's some getting you know the product mixed right when I came over in my role now has been a constant evolution and movement and and and trying to source some different things. Like uh, you know, we were we were a little lacking and and we didn't have much truffle stuff to offer. Man, when I got there, like um they were only selling a couple thousand in Pizza Italian uh a week in 2020. We're selling over 30,000 cases a week. It it's it like they didn't have a barata, you know what I mean? I was like, yeah, you gotta have a barata, man. So it's it w it there's been an evolution of doing it. Um so it's a constant change on our part. But yeah, like if you don't have what they got, you gotta figure out how to source it, right? Well, if you want something, I gotta figure out how to get it for you.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

What's the best way for an operator to have that conversation with their sales rad? Is it, you know, just hey, find me, find me this product, or is it find me a product like this that can work for my business?

SPEAKER_00 34:01

Well, it depends on it depends on the product, right? There's certain products that you just won't deviate from, right? If it's a signature thing that you do, you just won't deviate from it. And that's fine. And then also I always uh like I have to gain your trust in our in our brands and our products through stuff that is non-emotional and I know are really good like matches or fairly really, really similar, so that you know that I'm I'm not going to pull the wool over your eyes, I'm not trying to pull a fast one, right? But yeah, you gotta have that conversation. Like if it's something like even if you want to be able to buy it at both, if you have two distributors, you won't be able to buy it at both, you kind of have to have that. Hey. It has to be the same one, yeah. If I get in this, if I get in this pinch, or you know, if I buy it from you, or what would your price be on this, can you can you source it? That's a that's an easy question to ask. They they should send that off, you know, to whether it's a pizza Italian specialist, whether it's a a buyer, and say, hey, what was it look like? Because a lot of times it's it's easily sourced. Like where you're at, there's multiple, there's a buyer down there that helps with all three of our Florida locations, and now there's more in the Cheney brother line of command. Like we can find the product, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_01 35:23

That's interesting because things are changing so fast, and you know, with with social media blowing up and all these competitions popping up, you know, all over the country and all over the world now. There's always this search and this hunt for what's next, right? What's the next hot topping? What's the next you know, combination, what's the next sauce or drizzle or whatever that may be. And then that subsequent subsequently creates the problem of how do I get it? Um I've seen forums on with guys that are ordering products from Amazon and paying ridiculous prices just to get just to get it in. So it's interesting that you can have that conversation with with your salesperson or with whoever your rep is if you're working with a company like and we're not making this at the you know, I love PFG, even though I'm a PFG customer. It's great to be able to have those conversations.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yeah, and there's listen, like I said, every opco is different in our world. And and when I was I was a restaurant tour, I bought from U.S. foods. You know what I mean? Like I like it is what it is. Like, um, you gotta find somebody that works for you. There's enough for everybody to eat. Like, do I do I think our company does it pretty well? I do. But but I agree with you, man. There's there's there's different strokes for different folks for sure.

SPEAKER_01 36:36

What's what's next? Like, what are you seeing from your position? Like, what's on the horizon with with pizza? Like, what's what's the next trend, if you will?

SPEAKER_00 36:46

So, you know, there's a trend that has been out there just in in restaurant business in general, is more and more Asian flair. Man, I've been having some fun putting some Asian stuff on pizza. Like what? Uh oh, like kimchi. I've made a general so uh chicken pizza that went really well with some, you know, garlic chicken, general so sauce is the base, little sesame seeds on top of the mozzarella, and then finish it with some green onions. Just, you know, some fun stuff like that. But uh I also think you know, honey was the last one I really think went mainstream. So I think caladria chilies make a lot of sense too.

SPEAKER_01 37:27

Yeah, I I've only tried once. Um actually got a sample at a show and made a couple of pies. Great, great flavor, great, great taste, great texture on that pepper. So maybe. I hope so. Hot honey is is it is it here to stay or is it done?

SPEAKER_00 37:45

No, man, it it's here to stay. It's here to stay here to stay.

SPEAKER_01 37:48

I mean, we're actually seeing more brands pop up on the heels of Mike's Hot Honey, including folks that are trying to make their own.

SPEAKER_00 37:58

Yep. Yeah, I see that a lot too. Organic, I've seen now like try to try to do like an organic acacia, honey, and some of that kind of stuff. It's it's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

How does your company decide which which products you want to put your name on or one of your one of your that's uh that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

So there's a there's a big team that does, you know, uh at our corporate level that also work with some of our people at at operating levels. I actually work a lot with the Roma guys and do testing for them and stuff. I just uh I did cutting on what Friday last week. Um I did uh cutting with desserts. I've done cuttings recently with new pins, I've done cuttings with um some some appetizers and stuff from Italy. We we get we go to food shows all over the world. I went to a food show in January over in Rimini, Italy, and looked at some things and and we're working on uh getting our distributor or importer to import some stuff, and uh quite a few of those things will probably go in brands. But yeah, it's uh it runs up the chain. There's a big team there, they do a lot of testing. We actually one of the cool things that we've done because it you can it's a big corporation, it can be a lot of hurdles to get through, and and artwork being one of them, most people don't think of, and this, that, and the other. So they started this um this idea, they started performance in motion. So that's actually one of our brands that's just in a plain box with a sticker on it. That, hey, we're gonna try this out. We think it's gonna be great, brand, and you know, we're gonna put it out there under our brand performance in motion brand. And then we just had a shrimp that was in that that um that transferred over, I think, into our World Doc. Um so there's a lot of things where the they've they've made it try try to make it as nimble as possible.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:03

For us to be able to.

SPEAKER_01 40:05

It sounds like even if a product still has to prove itself at it in a newer brand or a lesser-known brand before you move to one of the one of the well-known.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

It doesn't have to. It doesn't have to.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:16

It's just available there, right? If it's a question, or if they want to get it out, like, hey, time, this is time sensitive. Let's get this out now. Because this is gonna be a new hot thing. We want to have ours out first. So they'll they'll throw it out there like that. But or in the in the case of the shrimp, they wanted to have it in brands before Lent came, right? So they threw it in brands.

SPEAKER_01 40:37

That's the fastest way to get it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah, threw it in a brand before Lent came. And then once they had the artwork done and the rest of the pieces, it moved over into that new other brand. So there's different different reasons for that. But I I mean, you're talking about a $60 billion company that corporate still tries to work with boots on the ground, like, all right, you think that's gonna work? Let's take a look at it. Hey, you think that's gonna work? Let's take a look at it. Let's ship it to these six different opcos and have everybody, you know, do a cutting with it, take their notes, send them all back. Let's see what you think. We're gonna cut it here, corporate too. Like it's cool that they do that. You know, they don't a lot of a lot of bigger companies don't act like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:22

No, this is what we're doing in the discussion.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

In your business, I also know that shelf space is a premium, right? You know, warehouse space, shelf space, things have to products have to move. Have you ever been in a situation where you you made a call on a product and it didn't go and you you had to, you know, had to bite the bullet and either waste it out or, you know, send it off to a customer, you know, anything like that. Any any of those situations that have ever uh come up in your in your time?

SPEAKER_00 41:53

Yes. I have one that sticks out in my mind because uh I brought it in for a customer and they never um they never brought it in. They changed their mind. And then once it was gone, they decided they wanted it back. Um it was uh it was a fully done dough mix instead of uh you know, flour or yeast. It was all done. So all you had to do was add water to it and go. And um, and uh I yeah, yeah, dumped 700 pounds of it. It haunts me in my sleep.

SPEAKER_01 42:25

Yeah, I I've I've on the customer side, I've done it too. You know, we we had this idea, I don't know, we came out of a meeting thinking about ciabata sandwiches and somehow, you know, got PFG to bring in like, I don't know, 100 cases or something for us. And we never did it. We never even developed the product. So next thing you know, it's like, you know, eight months later, you know, we're we're reaching shelf life on it or expiration or whatever it was, and it's like, what are we doing? Oops. What are we doing here? I'm like, oh well, you guys can split the cost with me, we'll do it. And we just donated it to a food bank here. Um they w they did work with us, didn't yeah. We we all kind of took a little bit of a loss on it, so unfortunate situations happen.

SPEAKER_00 43:09

I have I do a pretty good job of getting rid of it or selling stuff off or like if I if I have a plan, if I have an idea and I bring it in, like I to me that comes with a lot of weight. Like I take responsibility of that item. So I get behind it and try to sell it. You know, I I also go out and see customers. I don't sit in an office all day. I do trainings for our uh Salesforce, I see customers, I do a lot of different things. So I can help move the needle, so to speak, a little bit with certain things, and I know a a good amount of people like as far as what customers would might be interested in certain items. I mean, I said there's three things that on Wednesday I'm gonna pull the plug on.

SPEAKER_01 43:55

Yeah. You ever have to just tell tell a customer, no, I don't know Think there's something we can get. Or not that we can't, but just that it just doesn't work for us right now.

SPEAKER_00 44:04

I've had I've had I've had can't I can't get that one. We have this one. Will it work for you? And it doesn't work. One of those actually we're probably reading as we speak right now, but I a year later, you know, because I just didn't have access to what they were looking for, and I couldn't buy it correctly because it was you know, we were already selling a different brand. So to buy, you know, I had to buy three pallets of one thing. So I couldn't, I just couldn't do it. It wasn't gonna take enough I didn't have enough sales to do both of them. Um so you you guys gotta f you know, I I I just kept it in the back of my mind and then uh it something became available and I was able to snatch it and and now we're we're getting it getting that business back. But yeah, there's a lot of times like our warehouse was completely full when I started. We doubled the size of the warehouse with a a $30 million expansion, and we're full again.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

So space matters.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

So space matters a lot. So it's just like you know that uh, you know, if your shop is uh only has so much refrigerator, freezer space, yada yada yada, like you gotta make your menu accordingly. You have to get your deliveries accordingly. Like uh, you know, a lot of people may want you know one day a week delivery and need two because they need they can't fit all the product they need for the weekend on a Tuesday delivery. Uh you know, it's a it's one of those weird things.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Tough business. I always sympathize with your side of it because it's more than just selling us the products. Well, it's it's you know, maintaining the quality of the products. You have to, you know, all the logistics behind delivering and delivering on time and delivering right. And, you know, things have to be picked correctly. Do you guys ever feel like, man, they should give us give us a little bit of a break on some of these things, or is it, do you hold yourself to a high standard?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

Me? No. You don't have to give me a break on anything. Tyrell, I have one of the easiest jobs in the world. I get to play with food every day. I love it. In this in this equation, your job is really hard. The driver's job is really hard. The night pick job is really hard. My job is fine. My job is a cupcake compared to those things. I've done some of them. I've been on trucks and done deliveries with guys. I've been in your shoes and ran restaurants. Listen, if you want to give me a little guff over something happening or something they put, you know, a case of cheese on top of a case of produce, things happen. I'll take care of it. If you need to vent, go ahead. My apologies. We'll take care of it.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Well, yeah, well, I just know I've and I've been on in on some of those conversations, and you just need somebody to take it out on it, but it's not always fair, right? So for all of the other pizza guys out there, I'm just gonna I'm just gonna say, look, man, we weren't in our we weren't thinking clearly in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 47:08

Well, you know, it's funny because on the sales side of things, we joke is like you know that one customer always has something go wrong? Yeah, that's this customer. And it's not it's not like we're saying uh they make things up. It's for some reason it seems like it always finds you the wo the problems will stick with one person for like a six-month period. Like a driver may only make five mistakes in six months, all five of them went to the same spot. A picker's gonna make the um a mistake, that same one. It's like it's like every sales rep has like a rotating who's getting bad uh picks or bad um uh service and da da da and it always rotates. So you may so last week we delivered uh almost 240,000 cases of groceries. So you think about if one percent of those is off, one percent is 2400 things went wrong.

SPEAKER_02 48:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

It's a lot, you know in the grand scheme of things, it's it's a lot, but it's like when it's when you're the one of 2400, you're like and you have to operate your business.

SPEAKER_00 48:23

Like I need that product to get through my week.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

Like I can't.

SPEAKER_00 48:27

It affects you more than it does any of us, and we know that, you know what I mean? And that's to me, there's always gonna be issues. If you're if you're at a 98% or above fulfillment rate without issue, you're doing great in this industry. Um, so that means you're gonna have at 98%, you're gonna have 5,000 things to fix. How do you how do you fix them? You know what I mean? That's and that's that's that's the difference between a good distributor and a great distributor.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

You also work, you know, you obviously work with operators at every different level, whether they're just getting started or they're very seasoned or you know, just kind of finding their way but doing okay. There's a difference between good operators and great operators. What are the what are the best ones doing differently?

SPEAKER_00 49:13

Always learning, questioning things. Um that that's the biggest difference. Especially in in tenured operators. So in tenured operators, you have uh two different operators, and it's almost you can put almost everybody in one of two. Oh, what's that? Oh, have you ever seen this? Have you ever tried that? Have you ever done this? Nope, this is the way I've done it for 60 years. We're never changing, we're doing this, we're doing that. Both of those, both of those sides can make money. I mean, there is there is a an avenue for both those to be somewhat successful, but I always find that the people that do change a little bit with the times do change here and there, like you still have your base. Just because you're just because you're trying something new doesn't mean that you you alienate what made your success in the beginning. Those people I think tend to be a little bit more elevated.

SPEAKER_01 50:14

Little healthy curiosity.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Yep. That's a great way to put it. Healthy curiosity.

SPEAKER_01 50:19

If you were if you were gonna start a pizzeria, what would what would you do right now in 2026 or 2027? We'll we'll give it 2027 because you need a little time to plan. But what would what would that look like for you?

SPEAKER_00 50:35

Well we were talking a little bit backstage and and it got some Michigan stuff here. I would say I I would probably uh I would probably buy an edge oven and about I don't know, 200 Lloyd's pans and make Detroit style pizza.

SPEAKER_01 50:55

Heard that. Call my guy George for your edge oven. That's my buddy, he's gonna love that. Detroit style, Detroit style pizza?

SPEAKER_00 51:02

Yep. That's what I would do.

SPEAKER_01 51:03

Built for production.

SPEAKER_00 51:04

Yeah, you know, I love the story behind it. My dad worked for Ford Motor Company for 33 years. Um, so the story behind how it started, how uh Detroit pizza started is fascinating to me. And then I find that most people do it the same way they're doing their New York style. They just let the dough break, blow up, and then put it in that pan. And I think there's a better way of doing it, yeah. I think uh I don't think it needs 14% protein. Uh I I prefer it around 12 and a half, twelve seven, more of a patent level. And uh yeah, if you treat it right, I think it turns out really great. And and I think it's a good, easier way to there's less Detroit pizza in every market that I've been in outside of Detroit than any other style pizza for the most part. And I feel like the ones that are there, you can differentiate yourself very easily from because they tend to be heavy and overshefed.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yeah, say if you're if you're just blowing up New York style and then you're just selling dense, super dense pizza. Super dense. And it's not, it's not great. Look, and I tried it doing it that same exact way because I didn't want to do a separate dough, and it just wasn't, you know, you end up with a small pizza that feels this feels like it was a large.

SPEAKER_00 52:24

Yeah, that's it. Very heavy stuff, for sure. But yeah, that that would be that'd be that'd be the ticket, man. And it I know how they come out because listen, I I love I love deck ovens, my favorite to cook in, but hardest to make a living in because you have to have talented uh like pizza chefs. Well, you make wood-fired oven, completely different animal. I'll leave that out there. All right so so we have uh the we have the uh AVPN certified Roma Regional for us that has a wood-fired oven in his backyard, and he he he uses like inside oven to cook pizzas in with a with a one-inch stone. Yeah. Cause he like like I what do you want to go out there and stoke a fire for hours for to make like six pizzas for your family? Like, come on, man.

SPEAKER_01 53:20

That's why I don't smoke meats either. It's like I I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 53:23

See, I I so I grew that's how I grew up on the in the business was like we would do smoked meats and barbecues and da da. That was my my third job. He did a huge catering, 2,500 people for Rio Speedwagon and blah, blah, blah, blah. Nice. So I did a lot of that stuff. Now all my friends are like, oh, I'm making competition style barbecue. And I was like, I have a pellet smoker that's hooked to my Wi-Fi that I can turn down from the golf course. Like, I'm not trying to impress anybody. I just want to eat some pulled pork.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Yeah. I think there's a, I mean, there's something to be said about getting things done or but getting things done right too, right? And some some what sometimes the long way or the old way is the best way to do it, and sometimes there's new, there's new ways.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

It and there's new technology. So much stuff has come so far. Like uh I'm not gonna throw brands out there and throw people under the bus, but uh, you know, those impinger ovens or conveyor ovens, 20 years ago, I mean, it made the same pizza all the time. There was no it it just that you couldn't do anything different with it. Now you can kind of say, hey, this is style I want, and we they dial that thing in, and it's cooks completely different from from person to person, place to place. I've been very impressed with that. A lot like I've been impressed with some of the labor saver items or like partially produced products or produced products, some of those things that all that stuff was uh institutional BS years ago. Now there's products out there that are really craftily made. So there's there's there are some really great like we have a meatball company that we work with. Just some great meatballs, man. Like I I have a hard time making them that good. So yeah. Um, but they're just items like that and and and all the different uh equipment and stuff, it's just come so far since the past 15, 20 years.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

Well, I would I would love to pick your brain more on some of those things. I mean, just thinking about pizza, what do we do? It's it's flour, it's sauce, it's cheese, and it's proteins. We're all we're always trying to find the right balance between quality and profit. So where where does that where does that fall in in those items? Do we need to cut our own pepperoni or can we find something that that works for us? Do we need to hand roll meatballs, or can you find a product that is just as good that gets the job done and actually makes you a little bit of money? So those are the conversations to have. How does someone have that conversation with you if they're in your market or you know, someone from your team?

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Well, normally it starts with like we trying to find out where the pain points are for the operator, right? Is is your food cost a problem right now? Is your labor, which we hear a ton right now? Labor's an issue. Is it ease of preparation, quality of product, like what in each, and it and it's not the same from product to product or from item to item, right? Like, hey, I have this one, you know, the meatballs are are taking up way too much time and prep, and I don't have enough staff to do them. Can we look at a viable option there? Like, or is there another like high like um a high uh uh prep item that you're spending a lot of hours on that we can look at too? Um, so there just those kind of questions that normally go back and forth. Then it's all right, so now let's find a solution for the problem.

SPEAKER_01 57:02

Brandon, this has been uh really good, man. Uh you obviously have some deep roots in in the pizza and Italian food game, and you're doing some great things over there in Pittsburgh. I I I had it in my notes to say something about about Michigan just because you know blue. That's that's just our thing, go blue.

SPEAKER_02 57:22

Prediction for this year, football. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 57:25

Man, you don't want to hear it from me. Well, you I think it's a four-loss year, man.

SPEAKER_02 57:32

Tough year.

SPEAKER_00 57:34

I think it's a four-loss year.

SPEAKER_02 57:35

That's a that's a tough year.

SPEAKER_00 57:37

Yeah, we got a we got a tough schedule. I'm hearing good things uh uh uh on the ground about the offensive line and stuff. If the offensive line is right, we can run the ball, control, plant scrimmage, maybe maybe get it down to two losses. But we're gonna lose a couple games. Luckily, some of those big games are at home. Uh we have Oregon, we have Penn State, Oklahoma at home, we have um Indiana at home. We're on the road at Ohio State. We have Michigan State at home. I know they've had a couple down years, but they just hired a really good coach, and uh and that rivalry game is always tough.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

So look, I'm from I'm from Lansing, and as long as we beat Michigan State, uh things things are up for me.

SPEAKER_00 58:27

It's a good year uh if you beat Michigan State, a great year if you do something else, right?

SPEAKER_01 58:32

That's right. That's that. Thank you so much again just for coming on and talking shop with us. You also host your own podcast. Please drop that and let listeners know where to find you and listen to some sports talk and you know some of the other things you have going on.

SPEAKER_00 58:45

Yeah, I uh as long along with being a Michigan fan, I'm just saying a Bengals fan, which is wild. Yeah, it's also like you're putting yourself in a torture chamber. But yeah, I uh run it through the jungle is uh my my uh podcast and my channel. I got on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, wherever you podcast, all those kind of things. And uh I'm also on the Steel Curtain Network through the Fans First Sport Network. Um we do the homies uh AFC North Roundtable, and uh that one's a wild one. It's a lot of fun. Uh me and just a couple of the fellows uh talking trash about our football teams on uh on Friday night. Um we dive into some some good in-depth stuff. Um but yeah, and then uh on the Run It Through the Jungle podcast, I'd say my favorite thing that I do all year is we I do a uh um me and and my buddy Pay Saunders do uh what we call pay dirt, and it's uh it's our NFL and college football gambling predictions. So we do we do uh we do those throughout the year. We're about 60% wins over the past three years.

SPEAKER_01 59:48

That's good. Yeah. That's as good as you can ask for when it comes to sports betting.

SPEAKER_00 59:54

Yeah, it's been it's been good. I I took the wife on a vacation this year because of it. She let she enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:00

That means you can keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:04

Oh man, well, it's good. Thanks again. We'll drop all of the links for that in the show notes and uh you know let let folks connect with you. We'll drop email if they got questions about food and and and things that are happening at PFG Roma. But again, thanks for m so much for just giving us uh just some insight and education on what those relationships are like between between between vendor partner and operator. So good stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:29

Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. Thanks, Several.