The Direct Mail Playbook Every Pizzeria Owner Needs to Hear

I sat down with Kevin Slaughter, owner of Mailwise Solutions, a direct mail and print company that has been serving pizzeria operators across the country for almost nineteen years. Kevin started at Mailwise in college driving a box truck for his father-in-law, worked his way through every department, went corporate for a while at Procter & Gamble and Kroger, then came back full-time in 2018 and bought the business in January 2024. We talked about what direct mail actually costs, why postage matters more than print, when to mail for the best results, and why the marketing plan behind the piece is just as important as the piece itself. This one is full of practical takeaways any operator spending money on marketing needs to hear.

🔥 EDGE OVENS — This episode is powered by Edge Ovens. George brings the test truck to your shop and bakes your own dough, sauce, cheese, and toppings through the oven so you can see the quality before you commit. Book a test bake at https://www.edgeovens.com/test-bake, and follow #wheresgeorgetoday to see where he's headed next.

📬 MAILWISE SOLUTIONS — Thanks to Mailwise Solutions, direct mail that actually works for pizzerias, with no contracts. Menus, postcards, table toppers, and full mailing services. Visit mailwisesolutions.com or call (859) 341-3400.

George rolls up in the EDGE test truck and invites you to step inside, where you’ll bake your own pizzas in our oven—using your dough, your toppings, your process. It’s the simplest way to experience firsthand why EDGE powers some of the best-performing pizza kitchens in the world, and why our bake is widely regarded as market-leading. 

https://www.edgeovens.com/test-bake

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 1:11

It's your job to get the customers to come back. Direct mail is a way of getting people through the door, but it's not going to keep them there. It's your in-store marketing. It's your product more importantly. It's it's those aspects that are going to get the customers to continue to come in and be a loyal customer.

SPEAKER_02 1:41

I got Kevin Slaughter here from Mailwise. Welcome to Pizzaking Podcast.

SPEAKER_01 1:45

Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 1:47

You're uh, you know, obviously you've been you've been in this game for a little while. You know probably, well, definitely more Pizzeria operators than I do, and I know a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

I don't know about that, but I know I know a good amount. All good things, though. All good things.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Yeah, man. You you sent me, you know, it when you when I met you in Vegas, you sent me, you know, like a packet of postcards and menus that you guys work with. And I'm like, dude, this is like the that thing right there. I'm like, dude, this is the who's who of pizza business right now.

SPEAKER_01 2:19

I appreciate that. I appreciate that. That all goes out to my father-in-law who started the business, but uh I've been lucky enough to maintain some pretty good relationships in the industry and keeping our customers happy. So that's the way it goes.

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Tell us who you are and what you do over there.

SPEAKER_01 2:32

Yeah, my name is Kevin Slaughter. I own Mailwise Solutions. We do direct mail advertising for pizzeria, not just direct mail, but you know, dine-in menus, takeout menus, stickers, tabletopers, window stickers, anything you might need in the design and print world when it comes to restaurants. That's what we do. How long has Mailwise been around? Mailwise has been open. It's always a tough question because my father-in-law started it in the business uh in the basement of his family house. Uh, I think it's been around almost 20 years, going on 19 right now. Yeah, he he started another business called Max Marketing back in the day, and then got a phone call saying, Hey, can you do these pizzeria mailers? And he was like, Yeah. And he really didn't know what he was doing or how to do it, but took a chance and you know, one box turned into two, turned into a thousand, and then all of a sudden it was like, well, if I'm gonna grow this business a little bit more, I need to either kick my kids out of their bedrooms or buy a warehouse and get to work. So we moved to our current location here probably, man, 15 years ago, 16 years ago now, and we've been doing this ever since.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

When did you get involved?

SPEAKER_01 3:39

I started working here. I was dating my wife Julie at the time. Took my father-in-law and my dad to a Reds playoff game back in 2012, I think.

SPEAKER_02 3:48

What's that? Great of Great America.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

Great American, yep. And I don't think they've been to a playoff game since. But uh, he looked at me when we were there and he was like, Hey, can you drive a box truck? And I was like, sure. And uh I was in college and started working here in college, worked here until I graduated school, and then when I graduated, I went to Procter and Gamble here in Cincinnati, then the Kroger, and then one day we were on vacation out at a we were in, where were we, the Grand Canyon? And he was like, Hey, how do you feel about coming back full time and taking it over? And I was like, hell yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

What did what did you learn from the box truck about the business that made you want to stay in it? I mean, you want to go back to the street.

SPEAKER_01 4:29

Yeah, I so I started off in driving the box truck, working in the warehouse, and the warehouse is where we process all the mail, get it shipped to the uh the DDU, the post office destination, and started working there, and then started working in the mailroom, and then started working in the design and print, and then started working in like sales and data, like basically setting up all the marketing plans and just kind of fell in love with it over time, and it's five minutes from my house, and I was like, all right, let's let's try this. And then I came here in 2018, like full time, and then my father-in-law was here until 20 January of 24, and then I bought it from him.

SPEAKER_02 5:07

Okay. Was it was that did you feel like that was a big risk at the at the time?

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah, uh, my parents certainly did. I think a lot of people told me not to do it, but I know when I worked here, I really enjoyed it. I enjoyed working with the staff, the people that we have working here behind the scenes, and just enjoyed the aspect of the business. It wasn't until I got into it like full time that I started talking to customers, getting to know them a little bit better. And then again, just fell in love with the aspect of what we do for the customers, you know, the service we provide them, everything. I just I don't know. I like coming to work every day, so that's a good, that's a good feeling.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

I could tell you, you must like, I imagine there's there are pizzeria operators in almost every corner of this country that feels like they're best friends with you because correct, correct. I'll text you, you'll text like you I already feel like we're friends, and I've only known you for a few months, but and I'm sure there's so many more people that are just like Kevin's mind.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

I always tell my friends who are like, what do you do? And it's like uh I work with pizzeria owner operators, and it's like, how can you not like pizzeria owner operators? They like to have a good time, you sit down, have a beer, you know, it's just we're just dudes and non-dudes, and it's like, I don't know, just it's just fun talking, like talking to you right now. It's like, oh, hey Tyrell.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

That's and it's and that's how it is. And then you get to do a little bit of business along with it. That that's all good.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Correct, correct. So it's nice that we can provide a service. You know, we're not a giant company, so it's like, like you just mentioned, if you want to shoot me a text saying, hey, I want to do this, I want to do that, we'll take care of it. Hey, I need a box of menus. Can you send me a box of menus? I can't tell you how many texts I get on a weekly basis from customers or just like phone calls from my birthday the other day. And how about customers reached out and just said, Happy birthday, hope all's well. Can't wait to see you again, blah, blah, blah. But it's uh it's nice to have you know the customers first, friendship second, obviously, because you gotta provide the service that they're the customer wants, but it is nice creating friendships in this business atmosphere.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

Yeah, I I love it. I feel like in and full disclosure, I I ordered some postcards from you, but I feel like even if I hadn't ordered, we'd still be friends.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

I would agree. I would agree. I have a lot of I have a lot of friends start ordering. No, I'm just joking. But uh, I have a lot of friends who don't use our services because they have prior relationships made that they had in the past, and I respect that. And anytime I reach out to a potential customer or say, hey, are you interested in a packing? And the customer's like, I've been using this company for 10 years, it's like, well, I I can appreciate the loyalty with that. And it's like, I don't even like pitch it because it's like, nope, you're good, you're in good hands. I understand that relationship aspect of this type of business, and it's like, what if you need me, I'm here. If not, no big deal.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

What's the what's the most common question you get from someone who's you know, I guess probably interviewing you for your services? What what do they want to know?

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Just basically like like the ins and outs of direct mail, how's it work? Like what's the pricing like, so on and so forth. Um, how much does it cost? Pretty much. Because it's funny because a lot of customers, when they look at direct mail, they look at it as like the print cost and like the like what's the cheapest print they can get. So if you have a 10 by 10 and a half by 17 inch trifold menu with a with or without a coupon strip, it's like, well, here's our pricing. Well, the pricing on a you know, 25,000 menus is I don't know, seven cents each, a little less than that, maybe. And but like the postage is what it's actually the biggest aspect, the biggest expense when it comes to doing the this type of advertising. It's like don't look at so much the printing price, but what's the postage price? You know, it's like that's what I would shop around with, that's what I would look into, because the menus are gonna cost $1,500, $2,000, depending on how many order, but the postage is gonna cost I don't know, $3,200, $6,400, something like that. Like that's the biggest expense, and that's where that you can save the most money.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

And this and that's something that you guys handle as well, right? You handle not just print, but you handle the mail services too.

SPEAKER_01 9:09

Correct. That's kind of our bread and butter, is handling the mailing services for pizzeria's or and and/or restaurants throughout the United States. But our biggest thing is we don't have contracts, so people are free to advertise on their own schedule. They can hold a mailing at any time, there's no added fees in there. But that's probably the the mailing is our biggest bread and butter. That's what we're known for.

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah. I think that's probably the most intimidating part too for owners and operators. Like, hey, I got, you know, you can get print, you know, online. You can order mailers or you can order menus or, you know, any of that stuff, but what do you do with it when you get it?

SPEAKER_01 9:43

So when we get it, so we go through the design process once it's approved, and depending on, you know, each store is different. So, you know, your store might have 25,000 addresses within two miles, but then we have other stores that have 7,000 addresses within 10 miles. So it all kind of depends on how many they want to print, what do they need at the store? Because, you know, you when you order your stuff, you got a postcard. Other stores might need a menu. And then if they get a menu, maybe they want some sent to the store to like put out on the counter. And then once we receive that here, once we get them printed and ready to go, uh I always call the customers and have a follow-up of like, all right, how would you like to advertise? Do you A, do you want to advertise? And then B, if you do, like, all right, here's the cost of the postage, and then let's go through and work out what's in your budget. You know, what type of response are you getting once you send them out? It's like I usually follow up two or three weeks afterward and say, how's it going? Did you see any response? Do you want to mail every week, like once a week? Do you want to mail every other week? Have it in homes around the first or the 15th of the month when people get their checks. So there's a lot that goes into it once they're printed, they're the design and then printed. And then it's it's up to the customer as to how they would like to advertise.

SPEAKER_02 11:48

The it's the it's the marketing plan and execution behind, you know, first there's the design process. And I like how you your process went because when we started to talk, you said, dude, what's your goal? Yeah, what are you what are you actually trying to accomplish with this besides getting more sales, which we all want more sales?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

Like how it's usually my first question is what's your goal? Because if I can understand the goal, then I can design a piece to try to help with with that goal. And obviously everyone wants more sales, but there's more to it than just the sales. It's, you know, you want the design to match your store, the, you know, your colors, everything. I remember I had a pizzeria once that had a logo, and then the logo didn't match the sign outside his store. And I was like, how about we redo your logo for you so that it matches the sign so that if they get the mailing in their house and they drive by your store, they can like relate. Oh, that's the same thing. So it all kind of comes together. Same with social media. It's like pair direct mail with social media so that the advertising looks similar. There's a lot that goes into it, but understanding the goal for us is probably the most important thing because we can then design the piece accordingly to help facilitate that goal.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Are you involved with just about every order that goes through?

SPEAKER_01 13:00

I would say probably 98% usually. Yeah. You know, we've we've had the benefit of growing since I took over from my father-in-law. And, you know, just like meeting you at the show. We had never been to a Vegas show before. We had never been to any expos outside of me walking the floor, I think in August, whenever COVID year, August of 21, whenever that was, when they went to that August show.

SPEAKER_02 13:24

They moved it that year. They moved it, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

So that was my first ever show going. You know, prior to then we didn't have a website. So we were just all word of mouth, and people had it was like, how do you know you're legit? And it's like, I know I need to get a website. But I probably talked to probably 98% of the people who come through here, uh, at least introduce myself, say hello. We only have one other sales guy and Brett. And it's like, I say sales, but it's not sales, it's just the customer relationship of like setting up their marketing plan. So I set it up, Brett sets it up. Jake and Zoe handle our design and print along with Faith is there as well. And then so I would say 98%, but there is that every now and then there's something that comes through the cracks that I'm like, who the heck is that? And I'm like, I didn't have a conversation. That's kind of weird. So it's always, I would say I talk to a lot of people, but you know, we're just the machine's humming, so that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

I I love it. And and I love the you know, the aspect of team because I remember specifically like on the phone with you, and Brett's texting me or calling me, and you're like, Brett, leave T alone. I'm on the phone with him right now.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Yeah, correct. Correct. We send those packets out, we're gonna we're gonna call you.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

So I thought that was pretty funny, but I I can appreciate that because look, we're we're all business owners too, and you know, we run we run whatever size, small, medium, large size businesses, but we want that person to touch. And you guys certainly have that.

SPEAKER_01 14:43

So we appreciate that. We always tell people we're answer the phone. If you call the office, you'll answer. If they call my cell phone, as long as I'm not like putting my kids to bed or eating dinner or something, I'll answer myself. I might not be able to take or have the conversation right then, but I'm like, hey, I'm with my kids, I'll call you right back. You probably need to stop doing that. Uh that's just the way it goes. That's how it that's how we are. So it's just I can't, I can't turn it off. It's too much fun.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

So, and I'll tell the story because I know you're you probably you'll answer the phone if someone calls you right now. But I was calling you and you're like, dude, hey, I'm on, I'm on vacation. I'm gonna I'll call you back as soon as I put my son down for a nap. I'm gonna you better not call me. I can I I what can I do?

SPEAKER_01 15:26

That's the way it is.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

I promise, I promise this can wait a week.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

No, it's all right. It's just when you're in a small family business like we do, it's like, you know, the customers come first. That's how we make our living, and that's why you'll keep coming back to me if I take care of you. So absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

No, you got you got me. A lot of a lot of times we hear folks say that mail is, you and you alluded to it earlier that mail, mail is old school. I'm doing social media now. Yeah, it's not it's not really part of my marketing plan. How do you how do you educate clients or potential clients when it comes to the effectiveness of a mail program?

SPEAKER_01 15:59

Yeah, there's actually a a Facebook post that got tagged on like last week sometime, and someone was like, isn't that kind of old school? And it's like, well, it's only old school because it's still here. And it's like people were doing it in the 90s, and they're doing it in the 2000s, now they're doing it now. The nice thing about mail is that there's less mail in the mail stream these days than there was 10 years ago. So, you know, if you get your menu or your postcard or some type of call to action out there to get the customers, you know, to see, like, you know, the awareness goes up. Hopefully, there's an offer on there to get them to place in orders because it helps the stores track it. And it's just like the ROI is anywhere from 2% to 5% on a mailer. I always ask customers like, what's your average takeout bill? Most pizzeria's are between that like $30 to $40 range. And you know, if they get 20 customers, 2% when they mail, if they mail a thousand addresses and then their average bill is $30, well, that's $600 in sales when it's $320 in postage, right? So you're gonna get action on the mailers, and then even in like today's economy, with maybe it's 1.8 to 2%. So if you get 18 customers out of there, it's like, well, the important thing is they're coming to your store, they're within your delivery radius, and then it's I always tell our customers it's your job to get the customers to come back. Direct mail is a way of getting people through the door, but it's not going to keep them there. It's your in-store marketing, it's your product. More importantly, it's it's those aspects that are gonna get the customers to continue to come in and be a loyal customer.

SPEAKER_02 17:26

Yeah. And I and I think everyone interacts with your brand in different ways. Some folks will see it on social media, some folks will, you know, love to get that piece of you know, something tangible in the mail to say, hey, look on, we'll bring it in. And maybe people will like bring the physical postcard in. I think it's important to be everywhere. And as a longtime operator, we've we've had mail as part of our marketing as long as I've been doing this. 20, 23, 26, been around a long time.

SPEAKER_01 17:55

Uh obviously, with you know, the way the world is, like there's gonna be ebbs and flows to every marketing. I always tell every customer I talk to on the phone, like, I cannot guarantee that this is going to work. That's just the reality of marketing. But give it a shot, try it out. I always tell customers, like, maybe print on the lower end of our minimum. So our minimum for menus is 12,500. If they're a new customer, if we're not running a deal on 25,000 or more, then I'll push them to 12,500 just because you want to make sure that this marketing works for you before you go and buy a hundred thousand menus. And it's like, just make sure it works. You're spending your hard-earned money on this advertising. Let's make sure that you're saying a response before you go all in with it, right? Yeah. I just think that's the that's the right thing for the customer. I'd love for them to print 25,000 and mail double 12,500, but that's not what's best for them. So it's like test it out, dip your toe in the water, see what, see what type of response you get. And I'd say probably 90, 87% customers usually come back and do it again.

SPEAKER_02 18:55

Yeah, that's that's pretty strong retention. What do you what do you find that you guys end up teaching folks about marketing, you know, through through your services or through your through your mail programs?

SPEAKER_01 19:07

I would say the biggest thing is, you know, you just gotta do a little bit of everything, right? It's like if you're not staying current on social media, you're missing a bit of younger demographics. You know, with direct mail, I always tell people that the people who pay their bills check the mail, because that's where the bills usually come through. So you're hitting anyone from 24 to probably 80 who can get up and walk in the mailbox every day. And also with that, it's like educating them on like offers because uh we did a big mailing for a burrito company, and they had like a buy one, get one free burrito. And like one thing I kept mentioning is well, you only have one offer, which is buy one, get one free. You have this space of a six and a half by twelve or six and a half, six by eleven postcard, you have other spaces in there to like hit all of those different demographics. So like my wife might like my she just doesn't like burritos and she doesn't really eat them very often. But it's like, so if it's buy one, get one free entrees, you can get the burrito and uh bowl or a salad or something else, and you're not limiting it to it just two burritos, right? Yeah. So it's like thinking a little bit more in depth of like what who's this offer targeting? But also it's like, well, you can do that, and then you can do a five dollars off of 25 and whatever your average takeout bill, add 10 bucks to it to get people to spend more. And you're just trying to, you're sending, you're spending the money on the artwork, you're spending the money on the postage. It's like try to hit as many people as possible when you send out this type of advertising. And then with that, it's like pair your advertising with your social media or like your loyalty program. If you have a loyalty program, you like you did, if you want to get people in the doors, advertise the loyalty program because not only will the mailer get people in the door, but if they sign up to your loyalty, then you can retarget them via text marketing, email marketing. So it's just educating them on sending out the mailer is not just sending out one piece of mail, but it's sending out your entire brand within that one piece of mailing. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:04

And excuse me, and sometimes it's hard to get over as an operator, like you have an idea and you really want to get that one idea across. So like, and I even even me, you know, I I get I'm guilty of it when I I have something that I want to run with. But I appreciate and you know, not to just keep talking about what I went through, but I I think it's a good idea. No, it's a good experience because you're gonna go through it. Yeah. And, you know, I wanted to put uh a QR code on every one of my coupons because I wanted to link them all differently. And even though you weren't doing handling my design, you stepped in and said, I don't know if you really want to, I don't know if you really want to do that because uh it's gonna get it's just gonna look a little bit. It's just gonna look a little messy. Yeah, a little messy, a little too busy. And and you're absolutely right. And it came out, the postcard came out great. Oh, I got it here. Came out great, it looks looks awesome. We put the codes on. But I just appreciate you saying, look, you know, I know you're the I know it's your I know it's your account, your check, but this is probably not gonna work the way you think it can be.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah, and it's like I I I try not to butt in all the time, tell Jake and Zoe that, because I probably do it too much. But if I see something that I can, I I think it could look better or I think it could have a better outcome or not look too busy, because reality is somebody's gonna look at this post-coder menu in probably 10 seconds, it's like, what can you do to get them to take action? So in your case, if you have seven different QR codes on there, it's like, whoa, what is this, you know? But just the other day I sent an email saying, hey, you know, I can't remember who the who the customer was, but they had like four offers. One of their offers was going to their VIP program. They had a QR code on the front to go to their online ordering. And I was like, why don't you put a QR code on that offer that goes straight to your loyalty? Because that's only two, it's only one QR code on the offer. And then, like, reality is the customer's not gonna get on their phone and type in this long URL because nobody has the time to do that. People are lazy, and it's like, I'm lazy, I'm I'm calling out myself here. And it's like, put a QR code so they can scan it quickly, go straight to your loyalty, but it's different than scan having a QR code on every single offer, because then your your eyes are just gonna be going all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

Yeah, and it and it just it probably and it just doesn't work. So, no, I I appreciate the that advice, and I'm sure you see that all the time. Yeah, you know. Can you remember it like like telling someone like, no, we need to go in a totally different direction?

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Yes. It doesn't happen too often because I try to be respectful, obviously, but if I see something that I just know is a bad idea, I usually will be like, this isn't gonna work. You know, I I could I can do this, but like you're not gonna yell at me here in 10 weeks when this mailing is up because you're not gonna see any response to it. So there there are times that it happens. It's not very often. Our design team does a great job of trying to get customers away from what we believe to be a a bad, a bad thing or a negative response. But I mean, just the other day we had a coffee shop call us and ask if we they could do mailers, and I was like, I'll do it, but I'm just being honest, I don't think you're gonna see the response because a coffee shop, you know, their average ticket was ten four, ten dollars. And it's like your your response will probably be the same, but your ROI will be different because your your average check can't pay for the postage. And it's like you can do it, and maybe I would recommend doing it once to get the word out of it. Like if it's grand opening or something, I think that has its value. But you know, with if if a company wants to do a mailer and they can't cover it cover the postage in their like ROI of like if they get 20 to 50 customers and that won't cover the postage, it's like it's just not a good idea for them, you know? Yeah. And I hate turning away customers, but I'm just trying to be as honest and fair to them and upfront as as I can be, because I don't want a negative review

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SPEAKER_01 25:29

because the you know it didn't work. And it's like, well, I told you.

SPEAKER_02 25:32

So I'd I'd rather have a happy non-client and an unhappy former client.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Correct. So it's just tough. It's but no, there are times when I'll step in and say, this is not, we're not going in the right direction here. We need to change this. And, you know, it's in the at the end of the day, it is the customer's choice, but I will try to advise them as best as I can.

SPEAKER_02 25:53

Yeah. Sometimes we need we need more advice than we think. How does how does direct mail compete with like share mail?

SPEAKER_01 26:01

Good question. So shared mail is cheaper. And the reason being is shared mail is when you, for those who don't know, if you have a magazine or an envelope with a bunch of different advertising in there, and each company gets their own like page or half page, whatever, right?

(Cont.) The Direct Mail Playbook Every Pizzeria Owner Needs to Hear

SPEAKER_01 26:16

Um, and then what they do is they take all those companies, they send it out to uh, let's say a 10 mile radius, and they just drop all of them at once. And like shared mail is nice because it is cheaper. That's the pro. But the con, and what I hear all the time, is like, well, I did this shared mail and they dropped it into a 10 mile radius. But if you're in a place that has 25,000 addresses within like two miles of your store, by going out 10, there's probably 160,000 addresses. And you gotta do the whole thing. And you don't you don't drive out there. It's like now the customer's ordering a pizza and that you don't go there. So that's a con with direct mail. I mean, with shared mail. Another con is that you're competing with so many different businesses that I know when I get shared mail at my house, I usually get a magazine and I just like take it and throw it away. Yeah. And it's like I don't I have three little kids. They're seven, five, and two. I don't have the time to go through and look through all that. That doesn't mean it doesn't work. It's just a different type of mailing where with direct mail, like what we do, single piece mailers, you know, your piece is going to arrive in-home. It's only your piece. Usually choose sizes that are a little bit bigger than letter sizes so that they stand out, and it's only going to be your competition and it's only gonna be your business in that mailer, unless there happens to be another pizzeria in that same mailer as well. I can't do anything about that if it's from a different company. But that's a single piece mailer aspect, is like it's just your piece. Now, the con of that is that more expensive than shared mail. So it goes both ways, but uh, I think most of the time customers will see a better response with a single piece than they do shared mail.

SPEAKER_02 27:50

Yeah, typically, so in my experience, it's always a lower quality print, like those shared mail pieces, if it's in a magazine or if it's in one of those junk mail wraps.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:01

And they are they are cheap, but the minimums are way higher. Like you gotta you gotta cover a whole territory and you're gonna get a much lower response rate. That's always that's always a tough one for me. And not that we haven't done it and we and we don't do it. We're a franchise, so we still do some of that. Yeah. But I but you have to, you know, understand the expectations from it.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

Correct, exactly. And it's like it doesn't mean it's just another part of marketing. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, doesn't mean that you won't see a positive response. It's just different. It does go through the mail, but they're completely different avenues.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

I like I've I've been a fan and and user of Everydoor Direct Mail for a really long time, which is what you did for me with the EDBM piece. Because we can target days and routes and neighborhoods and avoid the junk mail. So that's that's like one of my one of the things I love about just doing it this way is that I know I don't want to be in a mailbox on Tuesday or Wednesday because I don't I I don't want to I don't want to compete with those guys. I want to hit the mailbox Thursday.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

I was just about to ask you, when do you like your mail to arrive in home?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

I like to I like to hit homes on Fridays, Thursday, Friday. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:06

That's good. Yeah, I always try to tell customers like don't have mail arriving home like Monday, Tuesday for sure. And like our experience is that, especially with me and my wife, you know, we'll cook dinner Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. And when come Friday, sometimes it's like, man, I'm so tired of cooking. I'm so tired of work. We just want to make a quick meal. All right, where do you want to go out tonight? And like a lot of people act like we do, and they spend money on the weekends, they save up, and then come the weekend they're ready to go. So we always try to get our mail to arrive at home Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, hopefully being Thursday, Friday, so that people are ready to spend money come the weekend time. And it's it's just the mindset's a little bit different. So if we have a customer who's like, well, we want mail in home on Mondays, I'm always like, Yeah, I I try to avoid it. Let me walk you through that.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

I yeah, like even Saturday's tough for me because people don't check the mail on Saturday.

SPEAKER_01 29:56

Correct, correct. So I try to avoid Saturday. Yeah. I always want them to be at home Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, heading into the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

That's it, that's good. See, listen up, that's that's good advice. Even if you're not, if you're mailing, understand what days to be in the mailbox because it it absolutely matters.

SPEAKER_01 30:11

It does matter. It's a big deal. It helps with the ROI later in the week. I think it's because people want to spend more money, just because the people spend more money on the weekends because they're not working. So they they save up, they want to eat healthy, they want to do this, that whatever the reasoning is, more people are likely to eat out on Thursday, Friday, Saturday than they are to eat out on Monday, Tuesday.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

So this has turned into a whole teaching moment. You dropped one jewel, you said print bigger than a letter size. That's important. It stands out. And then be in the mailbox on the right day.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 30:45

Another huge piece. So take notes, everybody that's listening to that one. He just gave you he just gave you some free game, but call him and he'll he'll he'll do it.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Nah, it's just what it's we if we send out a mailing for anybody, obviously we want it to work, so let's do it the right way.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah. What are what are you looking forward to? Are you doing more shows? I saw I kind of got a little sneak peek at Columbus, so I know that you're gonna be in Columbus.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

I'm gonna be at Columbus, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Got a little sneak peek there. Were you gonna do more shows too?

SPEAKER_01 31:11

We have been to the Florida Pizza Expo the last few years. The Columbus Expo was the first one last year. We've been to the Vegas show the last three. Uh, we went to a Texas restaurant association last year, but there weren't many pizzeria's there, so we're not doing that this year. So we're definitely doing Columbus. I've not signed the Florida one. I've not been I went to the California and spoke there a few years ago, but that's pretty far away from us. So we we've just I haven't had a boot there yet.

SPEAKER_02 31:37

So it is a it is a long way. I spoke, I I've been speaking there the last couple of years too. But a lot of pizza guys at those at those.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

Yeah, I say a lot of the U.S. pizza teams there. Yeah so no, I have not signed up for any of those yet, but right now we're going to we went to Vegas in March and we're going to Columbus in October, and we'll see if we go down to Orlando this year. What about you?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

I try to go to every show because it's it's good just to be out there to meet new people. But I'm definitely, I'll definitely be in Columbus. We'll definitely do obviously Florida. I'm speaking in California, Florida. I've been kind of doing that whole that whole series of shows. New York, California, Florida show. So I'll do, I'll be New York, I'll do California, I'll do Florida, and I'll be in Columbus.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

I mean New York this year was like right around the Pizza Expo, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 32:22

It was like two weeks before expo.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

That's what I thought, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:25

But next year, but and it was no, and it was funny. Uh, you know, I had a great crowd, you know, as usual, but we did show of hands and not one pizza operator in a crowd in New York, which was wild.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

I know that's wild.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

Talk to Glenn or not talk to Glenn. Well, I I do talk to Glenn, but they are bringing the pizza tomorrow pavilion to New York this uh this for 2027. So that'll be we'll have a lot more, a lot more pizza operators in the building. But that was a pretty big show.

SPEAKER_01 32:53

And when you go there, what do you talk about?

SPEAKER_02 32:55

I talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Now I'm interviewing you.

SPEAKER_02 32:56

Yeah, yeah. I I I talk about team building, leadership development. I'm all about, you know, taking care of people and and really building a team that can that can last with you and a team that can help you run your business. None of us can do this on our own. You will not last very long if you have to be the only person doing everything. Even if you have cheap labor like I have in the back right now, it's it's it's too hard to do on our own. We gotta be able to develop leaders. And the most successful businesses that I've worked with and for are the ones that did a great job at creating a pipeline of leadership.

SPEAKER_01 33:29

No, I mean that that's even if there was no pizzeria's in your at the New York show, just that works out, it works marewise. It's like we have a great team. Most of our team has been here for over two years now, and you know, without them, this place wouldn't run. So it's like you gotta what practice what you preach and you teach them something that's very important.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

Absolutely. So I I teach I teach that, you know, investing in people and and uh we just try to make it fun. I've been doing it for a couple of years. It's it's me doing what I'm most afraid of, which is just getting up on stage and speaking to people, even doing this podcast, it's hard for me. So we uh so I just force myself to go out to the shows and do it because I was going to shows for a decade and never talked to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 34:08

Yeah, no, I did the same thing, like I said, I'm talking at that California show on direct mail, and it's not easy getting up there on stage and obviously you know your business, you know what you're talking about. I know mail-wise, I know direct mail stuff, and it's like I know how to talk over the phone and just like boom, boom, boom, rattle off whatever I want because I know the business, but in front of people, it's like, oh boy, this is a little bit different.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

It's like, oh, I had a 45-minute presentation and I was done in 10.

SPEAKER_00 34:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

So true. I remember the first the first time we went to California. I took I took the family. I'm like kind of making a big deal out of it. And we get there, and I had like a late Sunday session, so it was pretty the show's emptying out, and there was only a few folks there. And my son's like, dude, we flew six hours for you to talk for 45 minutes. Yeah, that's it's harder than it looks. But we but we had a good time, but the kids always always give me the a little a little bit of a tough time.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

No, that's fun. Well, when we did ours, or Jake in particular, the jokester was always giving me a hard time, and I'm like, hey, I did it. It's like, all right, maybe if I want to do it again, I've got something created. I know how to talk about it, but you can't do anything unless you dip your toe in the water.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

So unless you get out there. So I I appreciate all the folks at the uh Bruce is really the one that really hooked me up with getting on the stage the first time. From uh, you know, Bruce from Swart Peter Marketing. So Bruce, Bruce kind of pushed me to do it as he's pushed me to do a lot of these things, and uh it's worked out, it's been really good. I've I've been able to A grow the listenership from it and and get to work with other folks because we we do a little bit, like I create products and and tools and a lot of free stuff for operators, but we also work on the back end with some folks on the coaching and consulting side. So it's been uh that's really been really the biggest lead generator. It's just getting out in front of folks. No, that's cool. That's awesome. But uh a lot a lot of fun, man. What's the what do you guys have for the for the balance of the year? Like, are you how how do you market to new folks without going to shows? Like, how do you people how do people find you?

SPEAKER_01 36:09

Shockingly, direct mail. You you Yeah, so we've got a uh a trifold menu that we advertise to, oh, that we designed and printed ourselves, and then we'll send those to like targeted business like pizzeria. So I'll go to a data company and say, hey, can you give me a list of every pizzeria in New Jersey? And then we'll send that out. I only do a few a year just because you don't want to, I don't want to get too overwhelmed with like what's going on, but we've seen a great response to our type of advertising at the Peach Expo this year. We did some social media stuff like getting customer interviews, customer testimonials. That was a lot of fun because you know, like we mentioned earlier in the podcast, a lot of these guys have just like turned into like buddies of mine. And obviously, like I said, customer first, friend second, but it's hard to kind of draw that line sometimes. And it's nice to you know get these interviews and then hear what they have to say. And you know, I know Mike Patera was on your podcast here like a month or two ago, and he did one and he spoke so genuinely about how you know mailwise has helped him in his stores with like the design, the print, and then like the advertising of letting people know, like, hey, we're here. And just hearing that personally, I wasn't the one doing the interviews, but hearing it when we were at the stand, he watching the videos since then, it's just like all right, what we're doing is working, and you know, that just means that means the world to anybody who's providing a service to a customer and they're seeing a response and they're cool. It's like, oh, this is great. Like, this is why I get up in the morning.

SPEAKER_02 37:37

So it's uh it makes it all better, absolutely. Yeah, so you just gave me an idea though. So can I mail something like can I get podcast listeners through direct mail? Potentially, just gotta pay for it. Yeah, like I was just thinking, like, can I let literally because I mean we talk to pizzeria operators, could I say, hey, look, I want to send a postcard to every pizzeria in the country. I know that's a lot, but that there's potential there.

SPEAKER_01 38:04

There is potential. And it's just like that's what we do. So it's like, you know, we s I can't remember, it was a lot of a lot of pizzeria owners, it seems, for us, seem to take action either in early January, some of them's like going to the gym and getting a workout in. It's like people are like looking for new ways to get new customers come January. It's at the end of the year, all right. How do I make next year better? So we send out mailers then, and I usually send out mailers like closer towards like football season, like at the end of August. Yeah. Because, you know, that's getting in the busy season, they're coming off the summertime, people are coming home from vacation, and we've just kind of seen like that's a better response for us with pizzeria owners. And again, we just we send out a mail-wise menu with uh what a call to action on there to try to get customers to take action with us, and we've seen a good response from it. So you guys, you know, any trusted partner we have, it's like people who have reached out, like, hey, could we send out a mail or two? It's like, well, anyone can mail. It's just a matter of what type of response you get.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

Yeah, I like it. I'm gonna we're gonna talk a little bit more about that because I I think there's some potential there. I uh, you know, through I have obviously I have data on who where people are listening, and uh I think that would be pretty interesting.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

Well, it's any you know, if your product can help a customer out just by listening to your podcast, it's like why not, right? Yeah. But then it's just a matter of can you get the revenue to pay for it type stuff, which obviously any type of marketing, that's just the way it goes.

SPEAKER_02 39:27

Yeah, yeah. I I love that. Dude, this is this is a lot of fun. I really uh really appreciate you taking the time just to give us a little bit of education. You screwed us all a little bit on on the nuances of a mail program and really some things to look for when it comes to doing it on our own.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

Well, just with any marketing, there's so much that goes into it. It's not just do it, send it, see what type of response. Like we gotta track it. You know, there's just there's so much. I had a customer in Texas who mailed like 10,000 pieces like two years ago. And he saw he saw an 18% response. He mailed all 10,000 at once, and he was he was so mad at me because he didn't see the 2%. And then he called me back like three months later. He's like, we need to do another run. And I'm like, what? Like he was so mad at me three months ago, and he was like, Yeah, well, those 180 customers have come in and like gotten like 400 repeat orders. So it's not just like the initial mailer, they came in, they tried a product, and then they came back. So it's like that, along with his social media, I know he does a really good job of that. It's just it's just this snowball rolling down the hill. And it's like if anybody has any marketing questions on direct mail or anything, it's like reach out to Tyrell, reach out to me, reach out to anybody. It's like we're all the best thing about the future industry is we're all here to help each other.

SPEAKER_02 40:42

Yeah, absolutely. That it it to your point, you just said it too, like consistency. Having, you know, staying, staying consistent with a program and not just something that's a one and done because there's no tracking, there's no, there's no measurements on how effective the program really is. That's that's marketing. That's not just mail, that's all marketing.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Correct. We always we always tell our new customers, like we recommend mail to arrive at home three to four times a year. So it's like depending on how often, what's in the budget, whatever, it's like, but if you have a mailer arrive at home once every four months, which is three times a year, it's like you're staying top of mind. Or like you send out a new mover postcard. So like anybody who moves within that two or three mile radius from the store, you're sending out a mailer with a free pizza offer. And then, like I mentioned this again, but it's like it's not just the advertising. That new mover program might get the customer in the door. And I always tell our customers, if you do this, you need to train your staff. They bring in that postcard, they're new to the neighborhood, like talk to them, have the manager walk out from behind the counter and welcome them to the store. And it's like the goal is obviously they they get that free pizza and they order more, and you're not coming out with like a net loss. But if you take the if the the owner or the manager takes the time to walk over and say hello, step from behind that counter, make them feel like welcome to the neighborhood, that new mover program is gonna just kick ass. Sorry for my language. But it's like it's not just the mailing, it's it's everything.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

You know what I mean? It's all of it. Look, we we say it all the time here a customer, a customer, a consistent, regular customer, which is like twice a month for us, that's worth $800 a year.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_02 42:13

And and we always tell ourselves, before, you know, we we make mistakes, things happen, y'all pizzas get screwed up, shit happens. Like, before we try to win that argument, think about that $800. Like, am I am I willing to take $800, ball it up, and throw it away just because I wanted to be right about a pizza? Never.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Yeah, really. It's like if I give you $20, $20 back, and you give me $800, who's winning here? So it's like so here. Obviously, you can't make it right with every customer. I know that as well. It's like there are mistakes on both everyone's human, but yeah, it's like what you just said is great. It's like, do I want to really throw away $800 just because of a pepperoni pizza came out with too crispy or whatever? It's like, no, just make it right.

SPEAKER_02 42:53

Well, and the same thing in marketing. Like, I get folks that say, hey, I can't, why would you give away a whole a large pizza? I'm like, because that large pizza is gonna bring in, you know, a lot more over time than the cost of that pizza up front. So yeah, it cost me six bucks, eight bucks, twelve bucks, whatever it costs me, it's uh it's worth so much more in the long run.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Like, I agree, I agreed. You know, everybody's I always, you know, we we like you and me, we I text you, like, hey, do you need this? Do you need that? And it's like people always ask, like, why are you texting your customers? It's like, because pizzeria owners are busy. And it's like, if if you guys can make it right with a customer and not take so much time out of your day, it just goes a long way to making the customer feel like they either weren't wrong or they were made it made it right, whatever. But it's like, again, if they come back, then you're winning in the long run.

SPEAKER_02 43:42

Absolutely, absolutely. And and customers, they they just want to be, you know, they just want what they want. They want a good deal, they want good food, they want good service. And uh, you know, last story about about my experience before we before we I let you go. I remember I had all of the you sent me, you know, the packet with all the minus and postcards. And you know, I have regulars that come in here all the time, and I'm talking to one of my good, my good friends, Jason, who's a regular customer, and I'm like, dude, you like this design or this design and all of this? He's like, dude, I don't care about any of that. He goes, Look, the pictures never look like what the pictures look like, what the food is gonna look like, anyways.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

And all I care about though I always tell people, use your own food photos.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yeah, he's like, and all I really care about is the deal. He was like, So make sure the deals are good and the pick the pictures are decent. Because I was like stressing, like, you want, should I do this cheesesteak or should I put this cheesesteak in here? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's like, dude, the pick the food never looks like whatever it looked, you know, it's not gonna look like that. It's obviously a stage photograph. It's your food, but it's you know, in a studio, it's correct, correct. Professionally, you know, professionally photographed. It's not like not like your iPhone pictures, which are fine, by the way. But he's like, dude, you don't don't overthink this. Like, just make sure you got good deals on there because that's as a customer, I'm I'm looking at those food photos, but I'm flipping it over to see what you're offering.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Correct, correct. It's it's a lot about the offers. So it's it's just put something on there. I always say the two things that work best with direct mail, but you said it like you did. You guys have really nice food photos and then calls to actions. And it's like, I know it might cost a little bit money to get some professional photos, but it does improve the response rate when you have really nice pictures. And you can take a really nice picture with an iPhone. Okay. You just got to make sure you can stage it correctly, the lighting is right, and make you just want your food to pop. And it's like stock photos are fine. We do it all the time if a customer doesn't have pictures, but I'll always try to tell a customer, like, hey, take a picture at a 90-degree angle, and I'll say, take a helicopter photo, unless you're standing right above it, and it's like, send it to me, we'll edit it, and it's like, let's see if we could do that before we use a stock photo. Because, like you said, the customer's like, well, they don't look like it anyways. It's like, well, it's better for it to look somewhat like your food than it is for it to not look like your food at all.

SPEAKER_02 45:55

Well, yeah, and and it shouldn't look like the guy next door or the the six other menus that they got because the everyone used stock photos absolutely should be your food.

SPEAKER_01 46:05

I was looking at a photo earlier of a a chain and I saw a photo that I just see all the time. I'm like, why is this on their page? I'm like, this is not your food.

SPEAKER_02 46:14

Dude, I've done it. I've I remember I had a shop back in the day, and we put oh I can't believe we did it, but we we did photos like on the windows. Yeah. On the on the perforated screen on the out front, and we did stock photo on the window, and I'm like, I thought it was so cool at the time, but then after a while, like I seen it on someone else's menu, or you see it somewhere else. Like, oh, we're idiots. Like, dang it. But you you live and learn. It's the way it goes. Kevin, it's a lot of fun, man. I appreciate you. I'm gonna let you get back to your Monday. Tell the folks where they can how they can get a hold of you, how they can find you. Um I assume you got the website up now.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Yeah, website's actually active. There we go. Uh go to MailWatch Solutions.com, text Tyrell, he'll send you my cell phone number.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

I sure will.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Just give us a call. Our office is 859-341-3400. But, you know, you let me know and we'll take care of you. So, Tyrell, I appreciate you having me here today. And, you know, it's just nice to continue this relationship we've got going.

SPEAKER_02 47:09

Yes, sir. The pleasure's all mine, and I'm and I'm sure I'll see you out on the road.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Yes, sir.

SPEAKER_02 47:13

All right, take care, man. I appreciate you. Yeah.