Anatomy Of Leadership
Leaders, visionaries, and changemakers, I'm thrilled to introduce our new podcast, "The Anatomy of Leadership," a series that delves deep into the essence of purpose-driven leadership.
As your host, I'll guide you through a journey of discovery—revealing how effective leadership can significantly alter the trajectory of our teams, organizations, and the world at large.
We'll examine topics like:
- Self-Mastery
- Caring for Others
- Influence
- Intention
- Cause and Purpose
Anatomy Of Leadership
Margin with Terry Swatley
Embark on an enlightening exploration of leadership and financial acumen with me, Chris Comeaux, as I engage in a deep dive with CEO Terry Swatley of Diversified Health Technologies LLC. In this episode of the Anatomy of Leadership, we discus the importance of margin in leadership and how it is a tool to achieve the mission of an organization.
Discover how Terry's leap from public accounting to hospice care revolutionized the healthcare industry, with loyalty as his guiding light. This episode unveils the human stories behind the numbers, proving that financial figures are more than mere data—they're a narrative of our collective actions and decisions.
Swatley emphasizes the need to generate a margin to sustain operations and allocate resources effectively. Swatley, also highlights the significance of surrounding oneself with good people and building trust within the team. He believes that numbers are not just numbers, but a quantification of actions, and leaders should focus on connecting actions to the numbers to drive results. Additionally, he shares insights on managing through crisis and the value of teamwork.
Join us as we navigate the complex world of startup finance, where benchmarks serve as indispensable beacons guiding businesses to safe harbors. Terry and I dissect the cultural implications of financial strategies within a company, tackling the delicate balance between punitive measures and constructive growth. Through our dialogue, we unravel the mysteries of financial literacy, weighing the merits of hiring financial wizards against the benefits of cultivating this crucial skill within your team.
In our final chapter, we celebrate the unsung heroes whose value to their companies surpasses their paychecks by leagues. It's here that we recognize margin as a vital lifeline, a buffer that ensures organizations not only survive but flourish in the face of adversity. As Terry and I reflect on personal anecdotes that underscore the intimate bond between actions and financial outcomes, we affirm the collective strength that emerges when purpose unites a team. So tune in and absorb the wisdom that bridges leadership, margin, and mission, fostering a robust understanding of the anatomy of leadership.
https://www.teleioscn.org/anatomy-of-leadership/margin-with-terry-swatley
Everything rises and falls on leadership. The ability to lead well is fueled by living your cause and purpose. This podcast will equip you with the tools to do just that Live and lead with cause and purpose. And now author of the book the Anatomy of Leadership and our host, chris.
Speaker 2:Como. Hello, welcome to the Anatomy of Leadership. I'm excited Our guest today is Terry Swatley. So Terry's a CPA, he's a distinguished leader in the healthcare sector and he is the CEO of Diversified Health Technologies LLC, which was born out of a vision to revolutionize hospice care through innovative technology. Diversified Health technologies is at the forefront of predictive analytics in healthcare and he's doing some cool stuff there. I can testify to it.
Speaker 2:Terry's a graduate of the University of Memphis. He began his career in public accounting before venturing into healthcare management. In 1991, he made a pivotal career move by accepting the role of president of a major national healthcare organization, marking the beginning of his profound impact on the industry. Terry's entrepreneurial spirit led him to the hospice sector in 2015, where he acquired Faith Hospice in Oklahoma and Embrace Hospice in Georgia. His leadership greatly enhanced their operations and patient care services until we sold both establishments in 2020. This sale marked the inception of his next venture, which is actually where we met Hospice Dynamics, which is under Diversified Health Technologies. This new enterprise focuses on developing cutting-edge predictive analytics tools to enhance hospice care quality and efficiency. Terry, what did I leave out that maybe you want the audience to know about you?
Speaker 3:Oh goodness, probably the most important thing in my life is my kids and my grandkids. I liked having kids, but I really like having grandkids. I have, uh, four under the age of four and I'll link it. I have a fifth on the way. That's cool, terry.
Speaker 2:And you do you, I'll be five under four. Oh, oh, my gosh. And you're also a coach, right, don't you coach?
Speaker 3:I coach middle school baseball at the school my wife is the president of. It's probably the largest private school in Tennessee. I really enjoy having that connection with the kids. I take them in middle school and I get to see them through high school.
Speaker 2:I remember one of the first times we met you told me that you just lit up. I could tell that and just how you're pouring into those young people's lives, which to me kind of speaks just to your leadership. And if you don't mind, terry, I'd love to ask you a question. I started this beginning of the year, left it off of a couple of podcasts and then listeners kind of came back and said ask that. And it's been really kind of a gift for me and also, I think, our guests as well. So the question is what's your superpower?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't think I have one, but I would trigger it's loyalty Loyalty to my team, loyalty to my players, loyalty to my family, Loyalty to my partners. I will never take uh do anything to my betterment.
Speaker 2:this is their detriment well, you know we were talking and when you and I were talking about my book which will segue just a second and you just made a comment about, just, you know, needing to be more at conferences or something along those lines, and I've reflected something to you and, as I've gotten to know you and to me, this is such a great testament to true leadership. I think I can see that loyalty and how it's reflective in your team, and your team is a reflection of you, like as they were. I met them at these conferences and then met you. Isn't it awesome when your people are a reflection of you, like your culture, your leadership style and what you're about, and I could just give that back to you because I've seen that in your people. You hire amazing people, by the way. Well, thank you very much. Well, let's segue, terry.
Speaker 2:So I'm using the framework of my book, the Anatomy of Leadership, throughout the year and that's obviously the title of the podcast, and I wrote the book really as a meta framework for what is leadership, like a table of contents. You know, terry, we're both accountants, right? We like to organize stuff, and so I'm like, why not organize the field of leadership? You Google the word, you get 7 billion hits. And so what we've covered so far throughout the year is self-mastery, caring for others, influence, intention and cause and purpose.
Speaker 2:And that's the first portion of the book with the definition. And then the second part of the book is the seven M's of what leaders do, and the very first M is margin. And I couldn't think of a better person to talk to margin about than you. You know, years ago I've been in healthcare now for over 30 years the nuns, who were incredible healthcare leaders. They coined the term. That's kind of become commonplace now that they would say no margin, no mission. I'm curious, had you ever heard that, by the way? And number two, I wonder if you had a similar adage that maybe you used in other industries.
Speaker 3:I love that. I love how they came up with that, particularly with what nuns, how you think of them, that they drew margin and to mission, which is exactly what you have to do when you're running. Whether you're running for profit or not for profit, you have to be able to generate a margin, not only to sustain your operations but to put the resources in the right places when you have the ability to do that. I guess my analogy is numbers are nothing more than qualifications of actions. So I don't look at numbers as numbers. They're quantifying an action Because, you know, in our previous, our previous life, we still do this today and developmental disabilities um, a lot of the people were number phobic, particularly the, you know, the, the administrators and the, the people that were in the management in the facilities, and we had to get them more comfortable with numbers by quantifying.
Speaker 2:they're just actions that is actually a brilliant way of framing, because let me mirror that back to you. So when you look at financial statements, what you're saying is they're almost an amalgamation or a quantification of the actions that people take. So when're looking, so it's really a cool way of pulling all that together. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, it's, it's. Uh. I I guess I go through life seeing numbers but seeing what the actions are behind the numbers.
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's pretty potent and powerful. Now, one of my mentors, terry, one thing he would. He did an interesting framing the wake of the ship versus the prow of the ship. So when we're looking at, like patient satisfaction scores or financial statements, it's a bit of the wake of the ship and then trying to reorient people to the prow of the ship. Does that resonate with you and would you kind of add anything to that?
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's. You know, particularly an organization that's having difficulty. Particularly in an organization that's having difficulty, I had a man that worked for me named Art Trunkfield, taught me a tremendous amount about managing entities Because I started this I was 30 years old and public accountant and management wasn't my forte at that time. He used to use the analogy change is like turning a ship a battleship it takes time.
Speaker 2:And two, you got to have the patience to allow that turn to happen before you judge actually the results of the actions you're taking. That's what makes it difficult, don't you think? Because there's that kind of process here, what you're saying like in the ship is probably a much better analogy than a car, because if I turn my car it's immediately responsive, whereas a ship um, you know at least kind of older ships, right it's, it's a much more gradual kind of process. It's almost like if I turn the steering wheel of my car but I have to anticipate like a block ahead or so. And so I'm curious and I just am really resonating with your framing there that it's quantifiable. It's the qualitative actions just baked into the numbers. Do you have any like um tool technique, like how do you help people go back and and connect their action to those numbers? Right, because they're not sequenced with each other. That's you probably, I bet, with your players. You don't probably discipline them two months after they did whatever it was they did wrong. You probably do it immediately.
Speaker 3:Well, part of the thing that experience brings you is patience, which I am, not a patient person.
Speaker 2:You and I both got that one brother.
Speaker 3:But what you learn is you have to set a guideline. This is what we're going to do. This is a change we're making and this is when we're going to do. This is a change we're making and this is when we're going to measure that change. So you set on the front end the expectation of what the result will be and when the result will happen.
Speaker 2:Do you think, terry, as I sit here and process that I wonder another superpower you might have. Do you have an uncanny sense of timing in that, like? I know some leaders that would do that, but they would. It's like the leader that creates the red line and they constantly erase it and it creates this. It just it doesn't create good leadership. I mean, imagine getting the same thing with your players. Right, if you keep moving, the well, we don't know what, terry, what to expect from him. So did you think there's a superpower in there that you have an uncanny sense of when the results may show up?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think what happens is you get a, you have a gut reaction. It's like NCIS If you ever watch the show, ncis, gibbs would always have his gut reaction. And I think you become more intuitive as you do this. And particularly, I started at a very young age running a large company. It's pretty amazing that, you know, I think sometimes back. I would never have done that myself. I would not put a 30-year-old in charge of my company. I just had that unique ability for them to believe in me. And you have to give that belief in your staff Now. You have to have them accountable and you have to have expectations and you have to communicate those, both positive and negative.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting, terry. We didn't share it with each other, but I was 30 when I became the CEO of Four Seasons as well, and when I think of so much that I didn't know, but probably very similarly, that was the ability to probably inspire people and just kind of believe in people. So we definitely have that similarity there as well. Well, I wanted to ask you so you kind of alluded to this, but I want to ask it in this way how do you look at financials and financial resources? So if, baked into the numbers, is the result of people's actions or not the result? Well, I guess it is the result, but if you dissected the number, it all baked into there is the actions. And so how do you look at financial resources then? When you actually look at that, or maybe even to get really accountant geeky on you right when you look at a balance sheet, what do you see there besides, like a typical assets liabilities?
Speaker 3:Well, well, I mean, obviously you're seeing the ballot. She's going to show you the health of the company. The pnl is going to show you what. What's happening on a monthly and near to date. Uh, as far as the actions are taken, where were you putting the resources in place? And you're in. What I'm I'm doing is I really look at it versus budget, versus actual, and look at the exceptions. So what is that exception? Positive or negative? So am I putting enough or are we using the resources that we're putting into that endeavor? Why aren't we that we're putting into that endeavor? Why aren't we? If we're over budget, why are we over budget? What did we do differently that we did not expect? So the number is just a quantification of that action. So I'm looking at it saying why is this different? So, once we start that roadmap uh, a lot of times I can I'll look at a financial statement. Now, when we, when we close the month in, I don't have any comments because we're on budget. We're doing what we said we were going to do.
Speaker 2:That's so good, terry. Um, I don't know if you know jack stack. Have you ever bumped into him? He wrote, he wrote the book the great game Business. And so there was a machine tooling company that he literally was going to have to shut down and the employees did basically a buyout, they bought out the company and they turned it around. And he actually reminds me a lot of you. And then not only did they turn that company around, they went on to spawn 150 other businesses and I had the opportunity and they were all kind of like an ecosystem, so they all kind of fed each other. And so I went to breakfast with them because the hospice I was working with the CEO actually they were in Rotary Club together and I'm like this guy's one of my heroes, so can you arrange a breakfast? He said absolutely. And so after about 15 minutes he kind of looked over at the CEO of the hospice Cause I'm like peppering him with questions. It was like who is this guy? And he finally goes. He goes, chris, you know we have 150 companies.
Speaker 2:I said I didn't know it was quite that number about upper and lower control limits on all KPIs, and then this was the punchline. They just look for standard deviation and they ask questions around the deviation upside, downside, upper, lower control limits and he said that's how we run that many businesses and they infuse that level of how they look at financials as resources. Now he didn't. I really love your terms, gosh. That's going to stick with me. When I look at financials from now on, what I'm going to try to see is what are the actions baked into that number, which is why then you want to look at the standard deviation? Right, because those I don't want to call them aberrations, but those things off the standard there's probably really cool learning there, like why were we off what we actually expected? Not that it's necessarily bad, but there's probably some cool learning baked into that. Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely, because every variation isn't going to be negative. Some are negative and you're going to take corrective action, some you're learning from oh, this is why this happened and it's okay and we want it to continue to happen or we want it to cease.
Speaker 2:You know, when you were talking about budgetary years ago. This is a totally dumb luck. When I grew up in South Louisiana, we had, you know, those little small concrete pillars that they used to mark. We had one in our front yard and I can't remember where I was. It was a conference or something like that and the guy this guy that was presenting used it as an example. But I did not know that that concrete pillar was called a benchmark. And so think about that like the surveyor. If they walked in with their map, right, and they had like go 200 feet north, you know, 600 feet south, without that benchmark, they would just stand there. They'd have no way to make sense of those numbers. And it totally changed my perspective on what is a benchmark, whether your benchmark is budget or your benchmark is some type of upper and lower control limits. So had you ever heard that before? I'm just curious your thoughts on that.
Speaker 3:I had not heard that, but I understand it completely, Particularly in doing a startup. Not only are we involved in the startup on hospice dynamics and diversified health, but also we have a sister company, 4L. That's our technology arm. That has a whole different platform that they do in fraud, waste and abuse, and I'm an investor in both companies. What we've learned is sometimes we have to look at where we're spending money and adjust, particularly with a startup. We put too much in place and we had to claw back what we're doing, because you're always ebb and flow of how we're using the resources that have been invested in us, how we're going to make it longer, stretch that longer until we get the customers. This has probably been as challenging an endeavor as I've been involved with Wow.
Speaker 2:Is it because it's the technology side, or is there any learning lesson there?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think it's just. You know, I'll have to quote a Cody Johnson song. It's from the song Human. It's I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just learning to be human and that's what I feel like all the time in the software business.
Speaker 2:That's pretty cool. Actually, though, I think I share with you, for one of the first times we've met, which resonated with both of us, I think, is living life in the learning mode. That is the cool part, which you know. I don't know if this resonates with you, because, growing up in healthcare, I work with a lot of interesting CFOs. There's some people that use numbers punitively as a weapon and that's so almost destructive because then you make people fear it because that person would use it as more of the weapon. Or, like you know, I went to Catholic school the nuns would hit us with the paddle. That's how they use the numbers, and I just get the sense that you use them in such a different way.
Speaker 3:Well, I hope I'm not punitive, but it's more of recognizing when we have an issue and what that issue is, and what are the actions we need to take to correct that issue or, or, um, alleviate it.
Speaker 2:So how do you teach your team terry to look at numbers Like do you do anything special, Any, any tips there?
Speaker 3:Well, you know particularly where we were. We were in developmental disabilities, which we still are. We spent a lot of time working through with our, with our senior management, how to recognize what they're doing. What are they? Why is that number what it is? What are you doing in your facility to create that number? So once we broke down that number phobic and it's not a number anymore, it's an action, it was much easier for them to have a dialogue on what am I, what am I doing and how am I doing it?
Speaker 3:Um, and we spent a lot of time investing that type of budgetary process and review process in our management, in the facilities you so a lot of it is. You know, like what I do now I've I've had two CFOs in my career. Wow, one was Dan Scott, who was actually in my wedding. We practiced public accounting together and Dan is retired now and now we have Michael Wills who, at the ripe old age of 33, is dealing with us, but he's at every meeting. We spend a lot of time getting the strategy right and I want him to participate in that. Um, you know, like, drew brainhurst is our chief commercial officer. Drew is a tremendous person. People just he has a he his superpower, people just like that is exactly his superpower.
Speaker 2:And drew was obviously my first contact with your company.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but what Drew has? You know he used to sit in our meetings when he first started with us and he was going like I don't understand a word. Y'all say Now he understands the business aspects of what we're doing from a number standpoint and we pour that into him and continue to do that, trying to. You know I'm not going to be around forever, but I hope dynamics is for a long time.
Speaker 2:I hope so too, and I hope, via this show, people really do look up more about hospice dynamics, because what you're doing there is just it's the holy grail I've been searching for, which. When I met Drew, I'm like wait a minute, am I kind of reading this right? Oh, my gosh, this is what I've been thinking about forever, and the fact that you guys have kind of cracked the nut on this. Um, terry, one thing I want to, before we go forward and talking about your team do you hire for financial competency or do you more? So teach it.
Speaker 3:Depends on the discipline. Operational-wise, if I'm looking for somebody in operation, I want those skills, and if they do not have the financial skills, then we teach it. Obviously, on the financial management side they have to have that, but then we're teaching them management how to manage through the numbers but then we're teaching them management how to manage through the numbers. So both sides of the fence have to learn a different discipline than what they're used to, because my financial guys aren't just numbers guys, they're managers. They're managing those numbers and they're working with the operational team to get the results that we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2:You remind me there was a I forget the name of the corporate company, but it reminded me also of Wayne Heisinger because I actually heard the same thing about him before. But this guy who's in Louisiana, he actually oh gosh, what was the name of the newspaper in Baton Rouge I'm forgetting the name now but that was one of his, his businesses. But he had a whole kind of portfolio I think it was like 20 something businesses somewhere between 15 and 20, but he only hired CPAs as the head of those businesses. I'd never heard of that before. And then a friend of mine I met not long after that he actually ran an interesting, almost like an investment broker business for Wayne Heisinger, who owns the Marlins and a bunch of other companies in Florida, and apparently he did the same thing. This friend of mine was a CPA and so I don't know if that resonates with you. I mean, at one level, having grown up as a CPA, you see a lot of different types. I can see some wisdom in that, but also could see a challenge in that.
Speaker 3:Oh, there are some that are all they can see is the number, and that's not a good leader. Those that can interpret the numbers and then get the team to take action based on the numbers, they're good leaders. But I don't think just because they come up through the public accounting ranks that makes them have a super power or management.
Speaker 2:That is well said. You know, you said something earlier and I have a feeling you were using an industry term, but I have a feeling you meant it a different way. You said I think it's your current seat. No, it was maybe your first CFO that you guys were practicing accounting, which is interesting because they call it a practice. I never actually thought about the meaning of that word, because I think some people have this idea Well, if the accountants have have accounted for it, it's sacrosanct, it's perfect, but yet it is as much art as it is science. There's a lot science, a lot of quantitative gap, things like that, but I think the virtuosic uh folks they realize there's some kind of art to it as well. Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3:oh, absolutely. Um, the numbers, they have to be accurate. So you have to be having, you have to have that sense of are they accurate or not? And that's what why dan was so great at his job is he could see the number and he was an interpreter immediately what that, what caused that and what do we? You know and knew how to ask the question uh, from the operational team saying why, why are we doing this? What caused this? And so his interpretation of the numbers was his superpower.
Speaker 2:That's so good. You know, I actually have said this to my team and they're like what do you mean by that? I said I feel numbers. It's like, like I know some people, I'm not the one that could do the calculation on top of my head. That's why I have a calculator and Excel spreadsheet. In fact, my wife homeschools my kids and she jokes your dad's not going to teach you, don't? You can't teach you math, don't let him teach you math. But I feel numbers, like I could sit there and I get a sense of numbers and kind of what they mean is are you similar, terry? Is that more your cfo from that perspective?
Speaker 3:uh, no, I I. You know, to get where I I have to be able to look at a number and I see something different than I think a lot of people do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that really does kind of resonate. You know, years ago I was working with Quint Studer and he had me shadow one of his most amazing coaches this guy actually was. He was a chaplain. I think he even pastored to church but he was doing kind of healthcare coaching and we were meeting with the head of the chaplaincy department at this hospital and Studer was great about teaching people what basically measuring what matters most, and the head of this whole spiritual department within this hospital was really he was antagonistic, he was almost pissed off and this student coach was engaging him and they start getting into the spiritual conversation. Like you know, I just feel like we're losing our soul as a hospital. And the student coach said are you telling me that God doesn't care about numbers? And the guy goes yes, I just it's all about. And he goes there's a whole book in the Bible called Numbers. I think numbers matter to God too, and that just was like a brain tattoo.
Speaker 3:Well, he gave us numbers. He gave the numbers to us because he knew what we could do with those if we use them correctly. So you know and that's part of why you had to break down particularly people in the health care industry that are, that are clinical we spent a lot of time with them, educating them on not being not being bad, because the numbers are bad, but how do you correct the number?
Speaker 2:That is very, very well said and also remove the fear from it. When I look back to my career, I feel like that's kind of been part of my I want to call it a superpower, but just part of my purpose is to help remove that fear and partner with them. And now you're giving me words to translate their actions to the numbers and try to be that Rosetta Stone of sorts so they can connect their actions to what the numbers are actually showing up as Well. Terry, you've been so successful in many industries and businesses. Now I'm curious what's your secret, and does it pertain to margin in any way?
Speaker 3:Um, I think I figured out at a young age. I have been very fortunate to surround myself with good people that trust me, and I trust them because you I am not somebody that's a control freak. I hired you for a job. I have faith in you and I'm going to follow up and help you be successful. So if anything has made me successful, it's not me, it's the people around me.
Speaker 2:And then would you say that margin then was just a tool in the toolbox. It is so the people first, which I think would resonate with all of our listeners. But yet the margin is a tool in the toolbox, but not it's a means to an end, not the end itself.
Speaker 3:Well, the margin is keeping score. The bottom line, any organization, whether for-profit or not-for-profit, you have to generate a margin Because one you're going to have that rainy day when you can't do something about the resources you're having to put out there and you need to have those reserves. More importantly, you need to have a scorecard on are we achieving our mission? And all the numbers are doing is quantifying that it's keeping score.
Speaker 2:I like that. Well, what? What final advice do you have to leaders about margin terry?
Speaker 3:um, I think the biggest challenge is when you you you walk into a situation where you have a negative mark, and I would say that the one thing that you always can do is go back and look where you're where you're, where you're putting your resources, cause sometimes, too many times, you get stuck in doing the same thing and not going back and rethinking where you're putting these resources and should you. So. When you're having those difficult times, it's really a time to check what are you doing and how are you doing it, and should you change it.
Speaker 2:You know, terry, I wrote about this in the book and I would love to get your thoughts on this one. I have found because I've walked into some disaster situations my first hospice situation we didn't have enough money to make payroll and I was the first one to find out. I wasn't the CFO yet I became the CFO when I found out, which was a really interesting way at 25 to find yourself as a CFO. Like am I the head of this ship? That's going down. But I find when you're in a crisis situation like that, the feedback loop now you've given me good words the actions and the numbers are much more closely aligned. But when the ship gets righted, that gap between actions and the numbers are a little bit further apart. Does that resonate with you?
Speaker 3:Somewhat, uh, somewhat, um, what uh? What I've always said, uh to our team is with, when you're having difficulty, a lot of people it speeds up on them, then that everything's seems to be out of control, and they that's when it slows down for me. So what I try to teach them is you know, stay, stay in the moment, not in the crisis, and you know it's a unique skill set to try to develop. Is in a crisis, do you slow it down or do you speed it up? Because when it's going so fast, you lose control. When it's when it slows down, you're in control.
Speaker 2:I love that you took it there. My son was in the Secret Service. No-transcript. It's like the speed of the game slows down. It's like people call that in the zone. We recently watched an interesting movie, kind of documentary, about a race car driver and when they're going 200 miles per hour they literally and of course they did it cinematically where it looks like you know everything is flying, but like a person's in the zone. I love that you took it there, and so I think that probably does speak probably to your superpower too, terry, that you're probably that calm in the storm and then what I and maybe I could say it better now the actions and seeing the actions and the numbers. When you're in a bit of a crisis situation, that's what's more closely aligned. It's almost like you see the quicker, whereas when the numbers are good, it feels like it almost feels like a little bit more of a lagging indicator a bit. Yes, I totally agree.
Speaker 2:The other thing I feel like you kind of poked on Dr Thayer, who I shared with you when I first met. He was my mentor, he's all over my book. He said something I never heard of before. He said every person should be worth at least three times their salary to their business. And then he said terms I'd never heard before, because I always heard about ROI return on investment, but he's talked about ROE return on effort and ROA return on attention. And he said the leaders that were good at ROI, roe and ROA invariably accomplished that. I am worth three times Like. In other words, if I'm throwing my impact, like throwing that pebble in the pond, and you watch those ripples, those ripples are creating a positive and you have a big family. I have a big family. One of my jokes is you know, my wife and I had five kids, so two people came together and we produced a whole lot more individually. That's a cool metaphor. Does that resonate? You immediately went into zone defense?
Speaker 3:Exactly, but does that resonate with you, this concept of return on investment, return on effort. It is, but I don't pick a number that is going to be three times that position. I really look at it as adding up the whole, all the actions that have to happen, and figuring out how do we get the margin within those actions.
Speaker 2:That's good. So you found that different businesses have different potential for margin. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah, that's some masterclass stuff right there, because you're so right, like I can see what he's getting at right If you get people to think I should produce more than I am individually. But where you took it, which you've kind of themed throughout, which is not your typical accountant, it's about people, it's about leadership, but that magic of when people come together, that they come together, they are worth more. It's not one plus one is two, one plus one is five. Yes, that's good, terry. Any final thoughts?
Speaker 3:uh, I appreciate you having me on. Uh, I've enjoyed it. Uh, I really enjoyed your book and I'm looking forward to a relationship building with you in the future.
Speaker 2:You as well, terry, you and your team, just keep doing the great work you're doing, because what you're developing with hospice dynamics has so many interesting applications to improve the work that we actually do, and we we'll leave. That's almost like a cliffhanger. People are going to want to know a lot more, so that's going to make them. We're going to put a good link to hospice dynamics in the actual summary. So at the end of each episode, we always share a quote and a visual. It's.
Speaker 2:The idea is that we're trying to create a brain bookmark, a thought prodder about our podcast subject. So, our listeners, it furthers your learning and growth and thereby your leadership, and the key is that hopefully it sticks sticks in your brain. Be sure you subscribe to our channel, the Anatomy of Leadership, so you don't miss an episode. Check out the book, if you can on Amazon. Tell your friends, family, co-workers about it. The Anatomy of Leadership. You know it's easy for us to rail against the world, be frustrated by things, but let's be the change that we wish to see in the world. So thanks for listening to Anatomy of Leadership. And here's our brain bookmark to close today's show.
Speaker 4:People are number phobic. In truth, the numbers are nothing more than the quantification of the actions being taken by Terry Swatley. Thank you to our Anatomy of Leadership sponsor, DeltaCareRx. Deltacarerx is also the title sponsor for our April and November 2024 leadership immersion courses. Deltacarerx is primarily known as a national hospice, PBM and prescription mail order company. Deltacarerx is a premier vendor of TCN and provides not only pharmaceutical care but also niche software innovations that save their customers time, stress and money. Thank you, DeltaCareRx, for all the great work that you do in end-of-life and serious illness care. You, you.
