Leadership in Senior Living and Healthcare with Jeannee Parker Martin

Jeannee Parker Martin, a visionary in healthcare leadership, joins us to unravel the challenges and triumphs of aiding communities ravaged by Hurricane Helene. With her vast experience, from international healthcare initiatives to pioneering AIDS home care, Jeannee shares her insights into leadership and service in times of crisis. Her unique ability to network and connect enhances her capacity to support vulnerable populations, setting the stage for an impactful discussion about resilience and community involvement.

As we navigate the complexities of the healthcare sector, Jeannee and I discuss the growing concerns faced by senior living and hospice care, especially in the aftermath of natural disasters. The episode sheds light on demographic shifts and the persistent issue of workforce shortages that have put additional strain on these industries. We explore innovative strategies like AI integration and highlight the need for adaptability and strategic planning in this rapidly changing environment to effectively tackle these challenges.

Our conversation takes a transformative turn as we delve into the role of AI in enhancing leadership and efficiency. By examining organizations like IDEO, we uncover how creative redesign and technology can revolutionize services, particularly in hospice care. Jeannee shares her personal leadership journey, offering career advice and emphasizing the value of career capital and continuous learning. This episode is a treasure trove of insights for leaders aiming to balance a big-picture perspective with detailed attention, all while fostering community resilience and embracing change.


https://www.teleioscn.org/anatomy-of-leadership/leadership-in-senior-living-and-healthcare

Chapters

• 0:00 Supporting Communities After Hurricane Devastation
• 15:11 Embracing Leadership Amidst Healthcare Challenges
• 22:52 Adapting Leadership to AI and Change
• 29:23 Attributes of Great Leaders
• 37:24 Career Capital and Leadership Adaptation
• 45:44 Seeing the Forest and Trees

Transcript

Chris Comeaux Host

00:00

Hi TCN Talks listeners and Anatomy of Leadership podcast listeners as well. We're just appending this message to the beginning of our podcast. Many of you know about the devastation from Hurricane Helene that has hit Western North Carolina, Eastern Tennessee and Virginia. We've got many of the hospices that we work with. Three of the most impacted hospices Four Seasons, AMOREM and CCWNC Compassionate Care, Western North Carolina. We're going to include links of how you can support those hospices. 

I want to thank you. The overwhelming response already has been incredible. We've even had other hospices get together and actually create a huge shipment of medical supplies and supplies for staff and the patients and families we serve. So just want to say thank you, just want to keep it in front of you guys. The road to recovery is going to be years. 

This is one of the most devastating events I know I've ever seen in my life and I've grown up in Louisiana, lived in Florida with my wife and I've just never seen the level of destruction. So, we appreciate your support. We ask that you continue to keep us in your thoughts and prayers because this is going to be a long road to recovery. There are a lot of other great organizations that you can support as well, they're helping just the community. People like Samaritan's Purse, Operation Helo, the Cajun Navy those are incredible organizations that we can tell you are doing a great job on the ground helping people. Again, this challenge has been unprecedented. It's really taken an all-hands-on-deck approach. So thank you for listening to our podcast, thank you for supporting us. We really appreciate you. 

Melody King  Announcement

01:33

Everything rises and falls on leadership. The ability to lead well is fueled by living your cause and purpose. This podcast will equip you with the tools to do just that live and lead with cause and purpose. And now author of the book the Anatomy of Leadership and our host, Chris Comeaux. 

Chris Comeaux Host

01:56

Hello and welcome. Today is an awesome show because this is the first time we're ever merging both of our podcasts together. We're actually doing a show that is a TCNtalks and the Anatomy of Leadership, and I couldn't think of a more impressive and great person to have our first crossover show than a friend and longtime colleague, Jeannee Parker-Martin. She's a president and CEO of LeadingAge California, Welcome Jeannee. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

02:20

Thank you so much, Chris. I'm glad to be here and also glad to be your first crossover guest. 

Chris Comeaux Host

02:26

Yeah, this is cool, and our executive producer, Jeff, talked to me several months ago about doing a show that would be a crossover and automatically I knew you'd be a perfect one. Because our TCNtalks platform is much more specific to hospice, palliative care, healthcare industry information, helping hospice and palliative care leaders be in the know of what do they need to know to perform their role, whereas the anatomy of leadership, based upon my book, is much more about giving good tidbits, good pearls of wisdom about being a leader, but the fact that you have wisdom on both sides of the equation, that should say quite a bit, so hopefully you take it the compliment that it's meant to be. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

03:04

Thank you, Chris, I'll try my best. 

Chris Comeaux Host

03:07

Well, let me read from your bio, Jeannee, then I want you to kind of expand upon it. So Jeannee Parker Martin is an experienced board member, executive leader, entrepreneur. She currently serves as the president and CEO of LeadingAge California and she's the former CEO and owner of the Corridor Group. So, Jeannee, what did I leave out that you would want our audience to know about you? 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

03:27

You know, my entire career has been focused on assisting organizations grow and adapt to the changing needs of the population international health care, doing work in refugee camps in Thailand and in Central and South America with diverse populations, and so you know that experience, I think, pivoted me over time to establishing the first AIDS home care and hospice program in the country focused on individuals with AIDS and their family members, whoever those might have been at the time. And all of these evolved into an opportunity to work with a wide range of organizations, including being the president and CEO at Visiting Nurses and Hospice of San Francisco, before working with my business partner at the Corridor Group. So those experiences, I think, have framed who I am today, have framed the leadership skills that I have today and also the opportunity to assist others in growing their own leadership skills, working with lots of different kinds of organizations and populations. 

Chris Comeaux Host

04:47

There's so many things that just bring it up. When I first got to meet you, we were part of what was the original National Hospice Work Group. You were there a long time before I was and then became MPHI, and there's something in what you're saying. So I'm not going to go there. I want to see how you're going to answer it, but I have a feeling I'll be able to pick right back up on what I was about ready to say. But, Jeannee, I always ask our guests what is your superpower? And I'm kind of sitting here and I almost want to guess, but I want to see how you would answer that question. 

Jeannee Parker MartinGuest

05:17

It's a really great question. You know. I think connectedness and networking is a great superpower that I have. I tend to be outgoing and engaged with a lot of different kinds of individuals and I tend to want to do what's best for society over time. So I would say networking and connectedness is maybe two superpowers, or maybe they're the same superpower, and I also think focusing on the neediest of the population has been a great maybe attribute. 

Chris Comeaux Host

05:58

Hmm, I could totally see what you just said. In fact, what I was going to say probably builds off of that, but maybe it's more of an application of that. That's a better way of saying it. You remember True Reindies, I'm sure you probably still see. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

06:11

True, yeah, I just had a communication with him the other day. 

Chris Comeaux Host

06:13

Tell him that I said hi, I love True and True once said to me. He said I have a feeling you might be the future of nonprofit for profit talking and actually collaborating. I feel like you've lived that, Jeannee. You've both sides. You speak fluently on both sides and, as I now listen to your story, you just walk amongst people that have that nonprofit heart. But you've also you played in the big leagues. You've actually sold an organization, You've worked with private equity, et cetera, and you've done both of those, kept your integrity, kept your, because I believe your true heart is exactly what you said you really do care for people and the work we do in healthcare. So I can see, then, how you use that connectedness superpower amongst that. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

06:59

I think it frames who you are. You know, when you want to do great work to support individuals, the tax status of an organization is irrelevant. Well said is what's relevant. How are they framing their discussions? How are they growing their staff and teams? How are they working together to collaborate and partner with others? So I think those are hallmarks really of great leadership how you navigate difficult and good times and how you frame all of that up to motivate your team, to encourage them to participate and collaborate, and also to overlook maybe small nuances of not greatness in some people. 

Chris Comeaux Host

07:58

That's well said. Well, Jeannee, on the Anatomy of Leadership podcast throughout this year. You know I'm an accountant by trade and I think accountants try to organize stuff. So maybe that's what I was trying to do, was organize the body of work that is leadership. If you Google the word, you'll get 6 billion hits, which is a bit overwhelming. 

08:15

So kind of my offering to the world was, if I give you like the table of contents of leadership, maybe that would be helpful. So the chapters of the book were self-mastery, caring for others, influence, intention, cause, purpose and then the seven M's mission margin, meaning management, message into the community, making people, making the organization and mapping future. In other words, this is a meta framework for what is leadership, and I think that's going to be such a cool kind of segue because, again, I feel like you're such a great crossover guest, because you have such amazing industry knowledge about health care, but you also have a lot of great knowledge about leadership as well, and so these are challenging times, I think you would agree, in health care and you have a very specific purview now within leading age, maybe before you talk about the challenges that you see in the senior living space. How did you end up in leading age, and so I think that might be even worth a little bit of talking about. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

09:10

I want to. I'm going to answer that question and I want to go back to something else. When I think about leadership, I just am reading a book by Nancy Pelosi and it's not about being a Democrat or a Republican, but it's called the Art of Power and in that she brings up you know kind of purpose, what's your purpose? And I think when you define your purpose and your why as we've heard other speakers say it really helps frame, I think, how you succeed or don't. 

09:47

And sometimes, when you're not clear on the why, it causes you to go in directions that maybe you didn't intend and maybe didn't work out as well. So, to get back to your real question, though, about you know, how did I get where I am today? I guess at Leading Age, California. So you know, for a very, very long time, the majority of my career I focused on home care and hospice. So I was involved in many different aspects of home care and hospice for about three decades and during that time, had experience not much, but had some clients and worked periodically with life plan communities, or what a lot of people know them as CCRCs or other communities that were serving older adults other communities that were serving older adults. So at the time I was exiting leading age I'm sorry, the corridor group I got a call from a recruiter a heads up from a friend, but a call from a recruiter that this position was open and I didn't really have a great interest in being an association leader. It wasn't something I thought I would be necessarily interested or very good at. 

11:05

Well, it ended up. I took the position in 2016. And here I am, eight and a half years later, thriving. I love. I love the role. I love the people that we work with, I love the focus of serving older adults and, like many things in careers, you sometimes stumble on something that fits your purpose and your why. But in this I think and I sort of stumbled on this and it fit my purpose and my why. 

Chris Comeaux Host

11:33

That's awesome and I love how you started there because I'm a huge proponent. Obviously, I included that in the book about cause and purpose and you probably remember me talking before about Dr Thayer, who was my. Dr Lee Thayer was my mentor, he was Stephen Covey's mentor and all about that concept of cause and purpose which I feel maybe has become a little cliche. And when you lose that, when you lose the richness and meaning of something but the power I mean looking at your life and now your career, which might look maybe unintentional, but the reality is, once you see that thread as you tell the story, it's very intentional. And I also cause. 

12:13

I've gotten to see how impactful you are people like me. I mean truly. I feel like you're a mentor of mine, Jeannee. I feel like I'm where I am today because of wonderful mentors like you in my life. Whether you know that or not, you've influenced someone like me and there probably my guess would be hundreds that would say that about you. So living your cause and purpose and the fruits of that on other people's lives, I think that's incredible. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

12:36

Well, thank you, Chris. 

12:38

It's meaningful to know that maybe I've made a little difference in your leadership and others, and it's also important, I think, to think that we sometimes have influence where we don't realize we do and when you, I think it's a you know something that some leaders or some executives not necessarily leaders, executives may overlook that the words that come out of their mouth every day and the actions that they take, that they take, are influencing everyone around them, and it's sometimes a hard lesson to learn, especially when you're new, I think, in your career and also maybe early in your role as an executive. 

13:26

You might be older, but maybe it's your first executive leadership role where you are responsible and you don't necessarily realize that everybody is looking up at you and they're going to watch how you move and what you say, maybe before they take action. So our words matter, and I think that, and our actions matter, and so I hope to continue being able to grow myself, learning from people you reading your book, learning from other people who have had roles that have influenced me and then help me grow as well. You don't have to be young or old to grow, and I feel like always that's what has happened. 

14:09

Yeah, absolutely. You know it's interesting. You and I are taping in this at a time where we're still in the height of the response to Hurricane Helene, and so the executive producer, Jeff Hafner, and myself were actually in the front lines of Western North Carolina, places that had no cell signal. So I downloaded a couple of podcasts and Ed Milet said something yesterday that I felt like was a brain tattoo that illustrates what you just said. But he was talking about that. 

14:40

He had actually interacted with Kobe Bryant the week before Kobe actually passed away and he watched Kobe walk out of the gym where they were together and Kobe was holding one of his daughters and he took the other daughter and hugged her while he was walking out and he said something just made me watch that and, lo and behold, kobe and his daughter passed away in that helicopter accident the week after and he said exactly what you just said that you know. I'm sure there he had a great workout. That can mean people know just one of the greatest athletes ever in the history of sports. But maybe one of the greatest lessons was watching a moment that was much more caught than taught, and there's just something about that that just felt so impactful again, maybe because it was in the midst of this hurricane recovery. But just listen to that and that felt profound and just brought it to mind as you were just saying what you're saying, because I do think a lot of leadership is much more caught than it is actually taught. 

15:33

Yeah, I like that expression. I haven't heard that before. Caught versus taught is really a great way to frame it, I think for myself and for others, you know to think of it that way. I also just want to reflect on what's happening in North Carolina and all parts of the Southeast right now, with two back-to-back hurricanes and the tragedy whether a life was lost or many lives were lost, or homes were lost the response to this has been very impactful to everyone and I think, in an odd sort of way, the disruption that's going on in other parts of our worlds right now. This has coalesced a lot of people around a new purpose to really reach out and help. 

16:23

So I want to just send thoughts to all of your members, to all of your staff, to all those that you care for, who are impacted in ways that will be life-lasting. 

Chris Comeaux Host

16:35

Yeah, that's well said. I've seen exactly the same thing, I mean truly with our own eyes. Just Western North Carolina feels incredibly loved on right now in incredible ways. I mean people have shown up in beautiful ways. You just see neighbors helping neighbors walking down Main Street just the first week because we had like nothing. 

16:55

Um, I think it was towards the tail end of the first week to go through a drive-through and like maybe the week before I'd gone through that drive-through and maybe not has been as thoughtful as I should have been. And just look, that drive-through person said I've never been so thankful, number one, that you showed up for work and number two, that I could do this just quickly to be able to bring some food home to my family. It's no electricity. And I found people in supermarkets like thinking the people Thank you, you showed up today in the supermarket, otherwise we had no way to get food. And I just feel like people are coming together in ways that you would hope we could do always, but certainly this tragedy has brought together people in just an amazing way. So thanks for saying that. Well, this is an interesting segue. These are challenging times in healthcare, and so what are some of the challenges that you're seeing in the senior living space, since that's where you spend a lot of your time now. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

17:47

Well, I think the challenges that we're seeing are not unique to senior living. I think the incredible demographic shift in two ways right now is really important to focus on. One is related to the growth of older adults. About 25% of the population of the US is expected to be over 60 by 2030. That's a lot of people who are older adults. And also related to the demographic shift is a dramatic demographic shift in leadership across the country. So we have had many founders of all kinds of organizations across the spectrum of healthcare Individuals who 50 years ago, were early in their career and founded a hospice program, or 50 years ago, started a home care organization, or, 50 years ago, started a life plan community or a skilled nursing facility or a hospital. 

18:54

And I've observed over the past couple of years that there is a demographic shift in leadership from people who have long, long, many decades of experience, many years of experience, to individuals who are very young and new in their careers, maybe without that depth of experience. It's not saying that's not good, it's just a recognizable fact when you look out in an audience today and see the average age of 35 to 40 versus 60 to 65. So I think that's going to be great for our organizations moving forward and I think we have to recognize that with this demographic shift in leadership across the country, we also will see maybe some changes to the way things are done that we may not have expected as quickly and although I don't want to focus on AI right now, but I think we have a great opportunity to integrate AI into the work that we do, because individuals who are younger tend to have grown up with technology in a different way than people who are, say, over 50 or 60. The other shift so aside from the demographic shift, I'd say the other major challenge that organizations are facing, again not unique to senior living at all, but that is workforce itself. For every one person leaving their career, retiring, transitioning out of a job, there is one person entering, and that used to be a five to one ratio, so there used to be five people entering for every one person leaving. 

20:42

So that shift in workforce availability is impacting every kind of business across the country and you probably have felt it in things like dining services, where maybe they had to close off a section because there weren't enough workers, or when you're going to the airport, there aren't enough people to get the bags or check people in, whatever the case might be. So I think that workforce, the dearth of workforce, is going to be a long-term problem that we face and it's related to this demographic shift of people growing older. So we have a lot going on right now that addresses these two issues, but I think in hospice and palliative care programs, not having enough workforce and not being able to scale an organization or a business is deeply threatened by the lack of workforce. 

Chris Comeaux Host

21:37

That's really good, Jeannee. We started a process. You would love it, actually, because you've exposed me over the years to so many innovative strategic planning processes. I still remember you're the person who introduced me to crinking. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

21:51

Oh, crinking, yeah

Chris Comeaux Host

21:53

and so we used a really innovative process to do a 360-degree environmental scan, and what we've come up with that there are eight challenges that hospice and palliative care organizations are facing, and you actually just nailed two of them, and so it's kind of interesting, right so, that we have challenges of staffing today and you've heard the term before the silver tsunami, so the silver tsunami has not really fully crashed on shore yet, and so we're at the beginning of that slope in the line for the huge increase in deaths as baby boomers get to the end of their life, and so we have those staffing challenges today. They're only going to get worse, and I love that you brought it to technology, because that is another huge. It's challenge and opportunity together, and so there are not going to be enough people. So how do you weave technology in with the people that you have so you can spread those people over that greatest need that feels like the core. Whoever cracks that nut? 

22:50

And AI is a perfect example. This is a small example, but I never thought about this till the other day. I was on the phone with an attorney and quite often the first 30 minutes they're giving me the download of the law, so then we could have the real conversation. What I did is I got in ChatGPT, I got the download of the law, so then I could ask the question I needed to really ask, and so what I found is I got a much more potent call by using artificial intelligence. That's just one small microcosm of so many ways that we could apply this. And then how do we get the staff that we have and spread them over more people? I don't know if that provokes any comments from your side, but it feels like those two challenges may also weave together some interesting opportunities as well. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

23:35

You know, it's a really great comment about ChatGPT and how you even found it a small nuance there which can be multiplied by a million and over. 

23:48

I think one of the critical things for organizations to start to look at is how can we streamline some of our back office services by using AI, and this isn't, like you know, I'm not, you know, some sort of an expert in AI but what I would say is we've started streamlining our finance processes, some of our marketing processes, some of our even just writing our own internal messaging using things like chat, gpt or other large language models. And I think that, as I, you know, I write like probably you and others write a weekly CEO update and I have a column in it myself, that is. You know, I try to be inspirational and what I've started to do, rather than spend two hours trying to figure out what should I say and Googling you know what's this month about and all kinds of different things, but I try to have a poignant message. I've started to just say write one paragraph to ChatGPT on X. 

24:48

Today it happened to be on the Blue Angels, since they're here in San Francisco, how we can think about, you know, our own strategies and growing our own strategies to new heights was kind of the focus. So I think there are so many ways that we're going to learn that we're going to learn and that is a benefit of having people who are much younger, who are very flexible and adaptable, still in their career and haven't been set in a particular way as often as some others like me. You know I've been doing this a long time, so you get certain things you just don't want to change. Crinking I did change, by the way, but that is you know. We're working with IDEO now, which is essentially the first cranking session. They're the global human-centered design firm based here in San Francisco to reimagine services for older adults. 

25:42

That's awesome and we've come up with six design briefs that focus on things that are going to be impactful now and in the future. 

Chris ComeauxHost

25:50

That's awesome. We actually used this incredible video I think it was off a 60 minutes special by IDEO where they redesigned the shopping cart, and we use that as a um, just a good jumping off point to some innovative thinking that we wanted to inspire our team to do so. Love those guys at IDEO. In fact, one of my good friends and mutual friend, you and I would immediately remember the name, um. They were looking for the innovative hospice office space and they brought IDEO in and what he shared that they learned I still use to this day that most of our members will utilize, the like compartmentalization of the type of space that is the optimal hospice IDG team space and it came out of IDEO. They're just amazing in how they think and look outside the box. Well, I wanted to each time maybe industry, but then also go to leadership. So how does leadership or the need for leaders, learning and growing just play into these challenges that you just talked about? 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

26:51

Well, you're probably experiencing it right now in North Carolina because of the recent hurricanes. But I think flexibility is one of the most critical elements of being a leader in the sense of being adaptable to changes that may occur very quickly or changes that take a very long time. So an example right now for hospice and palliative care providers are and particularly hospice providers is the change in the Medicare hospice benefit, the changes that are occurring in that, which I'm not following that quite as carefully today as I used to, but what I would say is those changes. You know that's a 50-year-old benefit and these changes will be hard for organizations to adapt to, with questions like why aren't we still just doing it the way we used to? What's this going to mean for my bottom line? What's this going to mean for my staff or my patients? 

27:53

So I think flexibility right now and adaptability are critical, with the issues related to not necessarily demographic growth and workforce together, but definitely workforce, because the workforce today after COVID is different than the workforce pre-COVID and having to navigate that as a leader is really important. And to being open-minded to new ways of doing business and new scheduling. Probably all of your members are scheduling in new ways so that people have more flexibility to go to care for their kids, even when that wasn't the norm. You know a shift was the norm. How do we address those sorts of things? A shift meaning you know you work from 8 to 5, or whatever the schedule you might have had, so I think that is very important. 

29:03

I also think being open to new financial models reimbursement models is going to be critical and maybe doing it better than what we did, because they have adapted to the changing needs of older adults or the populations that they serve. 

Chris Comeaux Host

29:21

That's really good. Well, Jeannee, I think you've witnessed some amazing leaders over your career. What are some of the most impressive attributes that you've seen? As you kind of look through the rearview mirror that just made them great leaders in your book? 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

29:38

I think that the greatest leaders are deep strategic thinkers and they can see the forest through the trees and the trees through the forest, so they see the nuances that are coming ahead of them. They don't mind taking risks to try something new and they don't mind failing. Or they mind failing, but they don't mind. They know that some things won't work the first time around, so they may have to reorganize how they're doing it. 

30:13

An example right now and I know that many organizations have these kinds of things occur is when you have a windfall of some type or another. Maybe you have a new population that you realized you could serve, or maybe you have a new relationship with a managed care organization that you never thought you could have. And then maybe in that situation, the managed care organization decides you're not who they want to work with. Well, those strategic thinkers, I believe and I know you do this and I do this but we always look at what the risk model might be before we go into something. 

30:56

So what's the worst that can happen? What are the risks that we might come up against? What are the challenges that we might face along this road if we go in this direction? And it doesn't stop you from doing something, but what it might do and I think it has done is help you understand where the road bumps will be and that you might have to course correct at every step of the way. And many times that occurs where you're course correcting. So I think, as you know, when I think of the great leaders that I've worked with, those are attributes they're strategic, they think about the risk, they don't mind failure to get to something better, and they also execute well. So good execution is all about accountability and holding yourself accountable as the executive. No-transcript, and some of those leaders haven't always had the best outcomes in their organizations. 

32:14

Just because they haven't had a good outcome doesn't mean they aren't a great leader, but they maybe took a risk that didn't work out and so they ultimately moved on or maybe decided to do something different. But so those are some of the attributes that I think are just really critical in leaders. Empathy is another very critical leadership skill. That's hard to throw that in, but empathy another very critical leadership skill. 

Chris Comeaux Host

32:35

Um I want... 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

32:35

I'm going to throw that in, but empathy is very critical. 

Chris Comeaux Host

32:38

I was going to say that was a good curveball. I want to come back to the curveball, but just for a second. We had this amazing board member. He was very high up in one of the investment firm structure and he because tele-ass was such an interesting innovation he said you're going to make mistakes. He said so, make them fast, so learn from them and just keep rolling with it. 

33:01

And that was such a gift early on to say you're going to make mistakes because it really is. There's no color by numbers, template, by what you're doing. And that was such a gift because it gave us this really cool permission within our culture to make the mistake, be bold, take risk. But we also demand that you learn from them. And we built that into our culture and I look back on that. That was like literally one of the greatest gifts. I think it might've been like our second board meeting seven years ago when we started, and so that's just something that occurs to me. But you threw a key point in about just say a little bit more about empathy. That feels like an afterthought, but it feels weighty, as you said it. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

33:38

So you know there are small and big things that occur in people's lives challenges personally, that may affect their work, or they may need some support in ways that we didn't expect. So you know, right now in your situation you probably feel a lot of empathy for the people who have lost their homes, for example, or maybe they lost a loved one somewhere else. I heard earlier just in another meeting that one of our senior living members lost I think they said 18 family members during the recent Helene hurricane. You know really a lot. That's a lot of people I mean I can't even imagine, and even if the number is not correct, it was a big number for that individual. So I think, understanding sometimes that people aren't don't always have good days because something else in their life is going on. Small example we had a staff member whose dog was very sick and I'm not a pet owner and so this particular individual was really having outbursts of anger and frustration at work and it was just getting kind of unusual. 

35:13

And then somebody said well, you've never even asked her about her dog, you know. 

35:15

So that's empathy, that's kind of understanding that small interactions and small interventions might be what the individual or group of individual needs at any one point. 

Chris Comeaux Host

35:28

Yeah, there's. You know, the very first leadership book I ever read, Jeannee, was Stephen Covey's Seven Habits, and I constantly go back to that. But that aspect of seek truly first to understand before being understood has always been such a gift. Actually, it feels like another way of kind of saying what you're saying with empathy. So, Jeannee, another question and I really wanted to ask you this one, because, again, I feel like you helped mentor me and, in some respects, even kind of help, kind of guide me, even when you didn't know it. So if you were giving advice for someone who is in hospice, who's a hospice empowered care leader, specifically considering the challenging times that they find themselves in, what advice would you give them right now? 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

36:17

That's a great question and one that is difficult to answer really, because there are so many different ways to come at a question like that. 

36:27

But I would probably say be very aware of new entrants in your market or in the market. 

36:37

They don't have to be in your market, but be very aware of new entrants and collaborate with them to the degree possible that you can, because new entrants can be your friends and they can aid in your organization's growth. And sometimes we are challenged by new entrants because we think they're competitors and to a degree they are, but they also can be great collaborators with you to help your organization improve. So I would say, if I was giving a piece of advice right now, with all the changes that are going on, I would watch for the new entrants and see how I might be able to collaborate with them. I also think, with changes in payments and payers, hospice and palliative care leaders need to adapt differently than they have in the past. So what was may not be what is going forward and what they may want may not be there in the future, and so the number of patients that a hospice or palliative care program can serve may start to reduce in ways that we didn't anticipate, because of these new entrants. 

38:00

And we're seeing that, say, with a PACE provider, or with what's going on with some of the major technology firms in healthcare, or even what's happening with AI in some technology entrants that will start to shift perhaps what is even needed in the field. So be aware, keep aware, stay aware. 

Chris Comeaux  Host

38:21

That's really good, Jeannee. In fact, we're going to do a show in early 2025. Originally I was thinking of calling it a flight of substitution competitions. You know, you come to Asheville and you could go to a brewery and they'll give you a flight of different. It's like a sampling, it's like a buffet of different beers, basically. So like a flight of substitution competitions. But a good friend, ken and coach meet. 

38:44

Don't frame it as substitution competition. Yes, textbook, that's what they are, but automatically people are going to look at them as what's competition and you really need to be much more open to them. So we're going to try to have a good sampling in that show of like these are those potential collaborators that you just actually spoke about and I love you're so on point. So maybe this is a good segue question. If I was at the start of my career today, back at the very beginning, and you were giving me advice but the genie that is today, what would you tell me? Like, Chris, this would be an area you really would want to look at. That might be a great place to start your career or try to niche yourself pretty soon within your career because of, like, where you see things going. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

39:30

I'm not sure that I would necessarily suggest to you that you do anything differently. What I would suggest to anybody is that they use the career capital that they've developed and use that career capital to move them in directions that maybe they didn't think they could move. Move them in directions that maybe they didn't think they could move. So an example might be and I think you did do this early in your career where you took a leap to become, and apply for to become, a CEO. Some people wouldn't do that, and so I would suggest that building your career capital over time and having a coach that helps challenge you in what approaches you're taking, how you could do things better, how you could change the way you're approaching a particular, maybe challenging issue with a staff person or a colleague those would be very important and critical elements. So building on your career capital. 

40:43

There was a book written that talks a lot about career capital and it says part of the book was you have to do something a thousand times before you become a 10, thousand times before you become, 10,000 times before you become an expert, and I would say that that's really true, that you have to do things over and over and over and over and over again to become really good at something. 

41:07

And it doesn't mean you know, if you're an accountant. You've got to do things over and over and over and over again before you get really good. As a leader, you've got to do things over and over and over again before you get really good as a leader. You've got to do things over and over and over again before you get really good. And you've got to have people telling you or helping you understand what you could improve on. And so, just like a coach, you know where you're out there playing tennis, a coach can help you improve your swing or, if you're a swimmer, how you can make a turn better. And the same thing applies to leadership. You need other people to help you understand where you can improve, and that will help you get better and then help other people around you get better. 

41:45

That's good I suppose you've done this, and I'll say that you asked me what one of my superpowers was earlier, and I would say another superpower that I have is trying to build up people around me that are much better than I am. And so I don't need to know how to dot all the I's and all the T's, but if I have people around me who can do that better than I can, then they get built up as well. 

Chris Comeaux Host

42:11

Well, Jeannee, this is interesting. This will be my final question and I want to hear final thoughts you have. But considering where you're a little bit towards the tail end of your career, although you still look like when I first met you. So whatever your aging secret is, it's awesome. Keep doing it. But if, knowing what you know now, and you were just starting your career, what would you go do in the healthcare space? Or if you were able to weave together some, a couple of areas, which ones would you maybe weave together? 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

42:41

You know, I don't think I would do anything differently than what I did. You know I started out as a nurse and I started out on the floor of a hospital like almost everybody did then hospital, like almost everybody did then, and I evolved as I quickly became a charge nurse, which at that time was you know, in your 20s that was a big deal and then quickly became a head of a program and continue to grow in those areas. 

43:11

So I think I have woven together so many great elements that I wouldn't want to change any of those, even when there were bad times. I wouldn't want to change any of those because they all have helped grow something that was different than what I could have pinned when I started my career so many years ago. And I am toward the end of my career and I think it's sunscreen, that's it. But I am getting toward the end of my career and so I think those would be things that have evolved me to who I am today and why I love continuing to do what I do. It's hard to stop when you love what you're doing. 

Chris Comeaux Host

43:51

Amen Well, any final thoughts. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

43:53

No, thank you for all you do, Chris. You've become a great leader in the field. You've taken on these, you know podcasts to help others grow. You've written books. You've grown an organization beyond, I think, what you anticipated yourself, and so congratulations to you as well, and thanks for having me as your first crossover. 

Chris Comeaux Host

44:13

Yeah, no, thank you, Jeannee. Thank you for what you continue to do. You inspire me because I'm not sure there's a day I will ever fully retire I think there'll probably be a different year and I think you're kind of inspirational that way as well. You strike me as someone that at some level, you'll probably still keep doing something, because and I think that's a gift because and I think it also is a bit of a pioneer because I think it also is a bit of a pioneer because I think, as the baby boomers do do kind of go into that part of their life I think there's a way they can keep giving back, as opposed to, maybe, what retirement was for the greatest generation. That means they stop and maybe they just go play golf the rest of their life. I think there's a new thing emerging and I think you're one of those trailblazers. 

Jeannee Parker Martin Guest

44:53

Well, thank you. 

Chris Comeaux Host

44:55

Well to our listeners. We want to thank you as well, and so we're going to always TCNtalks. We leave our listeners with a quote Anatomy of Leadership. We actually leave them with what we call the brain bookmark. The idea is that we share a quote and then a visual and we want to create like a brain tattoo or just a thought prodder about the podcast subject so it furthers your learning. It's almost like creating that brain bookmark. You're going to come back to the broader context of things that Jeannee and I talked about today. So be sure you subscribe to our channels the Anatomy of Leadership and TCNtalks you don't miss an episode. Pay it forward to your friends and your family. We'll have Jeannee's email and also a link to LeadingAge California in case you want to get in contact with her. So thanks for listening to TCNtalks, Thanks for listening to the Anatomy of Leadership, and here's our brain bookmark to close today's show. 

Jeff Haffner Brain Bookmark

45:44

Today's bookmark. "As a leader, it is critical to not just be able to see the forest, but also to see the trees." By Jeannee Parker Martin. 

Jeff Haffner Ad

46:29

Thank you to our Anatomy of Leadership sponsor, Dragonfly Health. Our Anatomy of Leadership sponsor, Dragonfly Health. Dragonfly Health is also the title sponsor for April and November 2024 Leadership Immersion Courses. Dragonfly Health is a leading care-at-home data technology and service platform With a 20-year history. Dragonfly Health uses advanced technology and robust analytics to manage durable medical equipment and pharmaceutical services as part of a single, efficient solution for caregivers, patients and their families. The company serves millions of patients annually across all 50 states. Thank you, Dragonfly Health, for all the great work that you do.