the home region with Robert Burns, part 2 (ep 3, 16).

After the strategy conversation, co-host Monica Kumar led a different kind of exchange. Robert Burns, Director of the Walton Family Foundation's Home Region Program, shares the arc of his own faith journey: a rural North Carolina upbringing rooted in church every Sunday, a season when faith communities weren't open to who he was, and the community of faith he and his partner Cris have found here in Northwest Arkansas.

The conversation moves through loneliness and the gift of invitation, exclusion and the courage to show up anyway, hope after a Category 4 hurricane, and what it means to flourish. A deeply human episode that returns us to the heart of season three: the faith of Northwest Arkansas, and what it does with belonging.

Part one covers the WFF Home Region Strategy 2030. Listen there first.

https://www.theunderview.com/the-home-region-with-robert-burns-walton-family-foundation

About the underview:

The underview is an exploration of the development of our Communal Theology of Place viewed through the medium of bikes, land, and people to discover community wholeness.

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Website: ⁠⁠theunderview.com⁠⁠
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Host: @mikerusch

Transcript

robert burns.: 0:00

I use the word community a lot 'cause I just think it's a word that has just such power to me. But faith is also about doing. I need to be in a place that's not just about four walls of a church, it's about how it lives and breathes in the place that it is, because it's largely, faith to me is about giving back. It's a principle. There's a philosophy there that I think is truly rooted in faith that crosses multiple lines

monica kumar.: 1:22

You're listening to The Underview, an exploration of the shaping of our place. My name is Monica Kumar. This is part two of our conversation with Robert Burns, director of the Home Region Program at the Walton Family Foundation. For part two, my co-host, Mike, gave me the space to lead, and I'm grateful he did because this one is very near to my heart. If you're a regular listener, you know that season three we've been speaking into the faith of Northwest Arkansas, our own personal faith, what traditions carry into this place, what institutions decide, what communities build, and possibly what we also close off when we do that. We're spending this season with pastors and priests and imams and deacons tracing the shape of faith across this landscape. I came to Northwest Arkansas from outside the dominant traditions here, and that's why part of these conversations matter to me the way they do. I'm always listening for who gets to belong and on what terms and how we add into that. Robert is not a faith leader. He directs the Home Region Program on behalf of the Walton Family Foundation, the work that shapes how the family's philanthropy takes form here and across the Delta. He came in to talk about a five-year strategy, and then he was kind enough to stay and speak into something more personal because he's also a person who grew up going to church every Sunday in rural North Carolina, who lost his footing with faith for a season and then found his way back, and who here in Northwest Arkansas has found a community of faith that he and his partner Chris call home. That arc, finding faith, losing it, returning on different terms, runs quietly through this whole season. Robert walked it too, and he was generous enough to talk about it. What you're about to hear is not institutional, it's human. That's the point. Let's get into it So Robert I heard, you know, that the polarization sits really deeply with us as w- in this season, but also with me. I've been grappling with this conversation and this this theme that we're seeing across the country in our communities. And then, you know, we've had conversations about loneliness and the epidemic of that. And, you know, two things come up for me, especially and quite resonant to what you just shared. A lot of the data shows that, two things seem to bubble up to the surface a lot when it comes to loneliness or joining in or, - sharing your voice. And one is just not having a specific invitation or someone to go with to somewhere. And I will share that you are- incredibly skilled at inviting. I have been the recipient of your incredible gift of being invited to specific things alongside you. And so, so thinking about that, and then also connected to that, there's, you know, so not having a specific invitation or a person to go with, and then the other piece of it is having a personal history of feeling excluded and then being fearful- to put yourself out there because that's- Sure.. been your journey. And so I wanted to ask you how does that resonate for you? And then perhaps maybe if you if you would give us the gift and the honor, maybe you can share any part of your journey where you've had to sort of you've felt that putting yourself out there has been scary, but you've done it anyway, and what has that looked like for you?

robert burns.: 4:40

Yeah. Happy to s- you know, speak about both is I think it's all of us and I do this as well, is to take for granted sharing that invitation, but saying something simple like, "Hey, do you wanna go along?" Or, you know, "I'll meet you there." And I won't meet you… This sounds so simple, but I rem- I have felt like this in the past too, is like, I won't meet you there. I'll meet you right outside of there so then I can bring you in. Like, you're my guest or you're, like, part of it. There, there's a distinction there that I make, which is, I think, it's a-- there's a differentiation, and I think that's really important. And that's easy to also take for granted to have that be the place. But I absolutely have felt excluded at different parts of my life. I say especially as someone who's gay, there's been times that I was really afraid about speaking out in my past or feeling like I'm not sure how to approach a certain topic. And I've just-- I've overcome a lot of that over time. I, I will admit there's times that sometimes I hesitate in doing that. But I also just think it's I think it's important for folks to be who they are. And I also think it's important because I get to the idea that I think we are strengthened by our differences. And I enjoy conversations where somebody has a-- like may- maybe we know we have some differences. And I have really dear friends who we have differences of varying degrees, but we're still friends. Like, I value the person. I value what they bring. I value their philosophy, what they do. It's like y- you-- I don't think you can always go for the person that you are friends with or that you have-- that you value, appreciate, that you really express that dignity for. You're never gonna agr- I don't think you're gonna agree a hundred percent all the time. That's not-- I just don't think it's attainable. And everybody's gotta make an individual a decision about like what is acceptable and what's not. But I think that's very often, you know, key about how you approach it. But I just find-- I think there's a richness in culture in being open to all the possibilities and just, and opening yourself up and to be very curious because that curiosity is really key. And asking questions of people is like just a great way to learn. And I-- you just find such a f-just fascinating fabric that makes up this country or if you're traveling international, the world

monica kumar.: 7:26

you can run a course on asking curious questions, Robert. So through this conversation, I've heard some things you've mentioned, and forgive me, there's no pun intended, but they all begin with Cs. I've heard church, I've heard community, connection, and then I heard Cris. And so in different ways through the conversation, these have come up. Can you share how some of th- these things connect for you? And maybe also how they impact you and how you show up in your work and in the world.

robert burns.: 7:58

Yeah. I I use like a really basic… And I hope I do this, is one thing that just I really believe this is incumbent on us as individuals, and people have been super kind here about doing this, which is making connections to others. And it's somewhat analogous to what we were just talking about, is like inviting somebody to something and then taking them to it, or I'm gonna meet you and then I'm gonna take you to it. Like there's a, there's those differentiations. It's also about, man, you know, I think this person that I'm gonna introduce you to has… First of all, I think, A, you're gonna enjoy meeting them. Second is they have something that I think you both will value in each other, and you have a curiosity about each other. So I, I do think that piece to me is the fundamental. And it gets to community,'cause community is, whether it be a small degree of connection or a much higher degree of relationship that's a fundamental to me. And getting to the idea that, that largely, not just the country, but the world, you increasingly read about this epidemic of loneliness, and I think you see how the benefit of just one person feeling like they are connected to somebody else has huge positive results from that. That's not the reason I do it. It's like I just feel like at my core I feel benefited in the past by seeing that and seeing what it's brought, and I just think there's real value and real power in being able to do that for others

monica kumar.: 9:38

I really appreciate that. I also know you a little bit, and I know those things to all be true. So thank you for sharing that. Something else that I heard, and again I've seen this in action from you, and I would love to, I would love people to know this pa- this side of you if they don't already, and you shared it earlier, that it's really important and exciting to you to see young people in leadership and use their voices and be in community, be engaged in community. Can you share a little bit about why you feel that way and what your experience of that is, and then maybe even how it shows up in your and Cris's life personally?

robert burns.: 10:19

I I think this is rooted… It c- it has to go back to my childhood. I mean, it's been, like, a rooted factor for me. Just feels like it's been growing stronger over time, is that it is just so… I think it, it's incumbent on us. Part of this is you learn a lot from the younger genera- I believe in cross-generational friendships. I mean, I think it's really important, and I think about friends that I have that are a lot younger than me and older than me and all the in between, like, that… I get real value out of that individually. But that young leaders people were really helpful to me mentors, folks as I was growing up and I never forget that, and I just feel like it's incumbent to do the same. Like, it's another, like, need to pay it forward, and I don't think about it. Like, I'm deliberate about trying to outreach and I've had the experience, I just recently had the experience of being at a wedding and one of my relative's daughters was there, and she was telling me what she was majoring in. I'm like, "Oh I got somebody I want you to meet-" … you know, that's in that world of career. And I s- I tell, I had to tell her, like, later on, I was like, "I'm serious. I want you to reach out." Now, to her credit, she did. And I wanna make that introduction because I think it's like, man, if you could find somebody that's doing i- a field like you wanna do, and you actually… This is a real live person. That's a, what a magical thing that is. But I go back to the word hope. Like, that generation is the hope for the future. Like, and they have incredible ideas. They're experiencing life in a whole different way. We should be open to learning from them. I would love to see more opportunities for young people to be engaged at board level, in, in ways that they engage civically. I think often the younger generation can feel overlooked or overshadowed or not sure how to get their voice in, and I l- I love opportunities where the schools really open up ways for them to engage or do problem-solving with partners or cities, so I'm a believer in that.

monica kumar.: 12:34

Thank you. I, I really appreciate that. And, um, and I know my son does, too.

robert burns.: 12:39

Well, it's a joy. I mean, that's it. The thing is like, man, you meet these incredible kids. I mean, I've had the great pleasure of meeting bo- both your son and then Mike's kids and like- Yeah … man, these are incredible humans. And I go back to what I said, like really huge hope for all of them in the future. Like, I always jokingly say,"Hey, don't forget about all of us who are a lot older than you down the road." And so, but I think it, it's key-

monica kumar.: 13:04

I can certainly speak, I can certainly speak for my son and say that you have, you and Cris have had a tremendous impact on h- on him, and I appreciate that so much. I don't think anyone is forgetting you anytime soon.

robert burns.: 13:14

I don't think anyone has been getting you any tonsils Oh, good. Good. Well, he's had a tremendous impact on me too. And be forewarned, don't don't play trivia with her son. A- and I don't trivialize playing trivi- trivia with her, with Ansh.

monica kumar.: 13:23

He takes it very seriously.

robert burns.: 13:24

Yes, exactly

monica kumar.: 13:26

Robert, can I ask you, you know, you know that this season is about faith, and we don't define for anybody who's listening or anybody that visits and we're honored to have in our chair, we don't define what faith means for them. But we certainly think about it. You know, you use these words optimism, hope, and for me personally, that is, my faith is rooted in many of those things. Can you speak a little bit about your faith? You mentioned church and your… And I think you're, yeah, I think you're connected to the church community in Northwest Arkansas. W- if you, if if you're open to that, could you share a little bit about that?

robert burns.: 14:02

Oh I'm happy to. I'll go back to the story, kinda my root story is I grew up North Carolina rural but close to metro area. And for as long as I could remember from being teeny tiny, we went to church every Sunday. And my family extended family, it was really important, like church was where the family reunions occurred on both sides of the family. That was those were huge family remembrances of all things related to church. And I had this journey where my family originally started in, in a, once a certain denomination, and then eventually made a switch, partially'cause we slightly moved. And that may not seem like that big a deal, but when you're rural and you slightly move- … that proximity is like, makes a big difference. And it was interesting to me to see like how church took on a life. And I have to admit, like, I was the kid that often would go to service, and you get to the sermon, and I just… Sometimes you're like, "Can we just be done?" I mean, because I wasn't getting as much… I remember there was a s- a specific A preacher at the church where my family went. He was a little bit younger, and for some reason his message really started resonating more. It's like you find the person you can identify with a little bit more. You're like, "Wow, this… I'm hearing something different." And I then have to admit, like, for a while, I really I struggled with my faith because I felt as someone who was coming out and trying to figure out, like in many ways, who they were at the time, that a lot of the faith community wasn't open to me, and part of that I own. It wasn't necessarily… Sometimes it was what you were hearing, but trying to figure out what that looks like. But then there were different points in my life that I really felt rooted and wanted to seek out, you know, my own faith journey again. And that's taken many forms, but also I just feel fortunate that here Cris and I have found a very strong community of faith. And it is, I realize, y'all were talking about this earlier, I use the word community a lot'cause I just think it's a word that has just such power to me. But faith is also about doing. Like, I need to be in a place that's not just about four walls of a church, it's about how it lives and breathes in the place that it is, because it's largely, faith to me is about giving back. It's a principle. There's a philosophy there that I think is truly rooted in faith that crosses multiple lines. I'm also very faith curious. Like I, I enjoy meeting people from different faith traditions. I have gone to other congregations and have had that experience and had people invite me, and I really enjoy that 'cause I learn. I think it gets to something I talked about earlier. I think faith can often be one of those lines that people are afraid to cross if you feel like someone's from a different denomination or potentially of different faith belief, and I think it's great to be able to learn. I do think there's a lot of things that we're much more connected on around faith than maybe we often will open ourselves up to be credit for. But I think every- I always respect people are on their different journeys and have different faith beliefs, and that word respect to me is absolutely key. I don't have any expectation that somebody is going to be of my faith. And that's totally fine because I wanna understand theirs, and I can find often just a lots of commonality about it. And I really respect when people will actually want to talk about it. So that's a… This also gets to my curiosity. It's, it is interesting to me the number of times it will come up and just sometimes just in conversation, and I like that

monica kumar.: 17:52

Yeah. I feel the same way, obviously, and I think I can speak for Mike. We're definitely both faith curious, and spiritual- you know, spiritually and sort of thinking about community and the connection and how faith communities think about belonging and build belonging. One of the things and I know you and I, and you've also shared in this conversation, is how much you lean toward and learn from and hope toward hope and optimism. And I'm curious Robert, can you share a time when your sense of hope and optimism was perhaps questioned or cha- challenged or felt complex, and then how you navigated back through that into the light of hope?

robert burns.: 18:34

Yeah. Happy to. I mean, I, the, I had a experience fairly early in my career where I worked for a city in South Carolina that took almost a direct hit from a Category 4 hurricane and laid out significant destruction. And talk about something that tests that hope is when you look at the degree of des- destruction, and I was living this every day. I was working in local government. My job didn't stop. It increased. I learned a lot over that time period. But it's hard sometimes and I-- boy, I feel when you see somebody after a natural disaster or it's akin to me of the tornadoes here and, like, the pain that people are going through. It's like… But that destruction of this hurricane, it's like i- in some ways it was hard. How is this ever gonna be back to the way it was or better than it was? And then the thing I'm-- I just re-remember this so distinctly. The thing that just if you had a doubt about it was the communities coming together a lot of them led by faith communities of faith, and it didn't matter what the congregation was. Like, really coming together to do things, to cut trees, to try to restore and then people coming in from all over the world to, to volunteer. We've experienced some degree of that here after the tornado, and honestly, that tornado period for me was one of the most meaningful periods here in Northwest Arkansas from seeing in action people coming together. I mean, that was incredible. I think that is possible all throughout life. But that, that point to your question was like, it was easy to feel hopeless in a moment that I hadn't personally had experience for, but it was a very good test of a lot of things at that time. But my hope was soon restored. So if it waned it came right back. And I just think it's a mindset. I also… you have a choice about how you approach life, and that's also how I choose to approach life.

monica kumar.: 20:47

Thank you so much for everything you've shared. And I'm curious, as, you know, from all the things you have shared and and the journeys you've been on I know you think a lot about community, and you can't have community without a sense of belonging or at least thinking about belonging. And I'm curious, what does belonging mean to you?

robert burns.: 21:04

It is this feeling of connectivity, and I think that takes on different forms. But that it goes to this word that I think is really powerful, which is the word welcome, that you really f- as an individual, you feel a sense of welcome. And that might be in the most basic way that someone sees you for who you are. And that I don't mean that in a basic way. I think sometimes that's very difficult. But I think it, it gets to some of these things that we might take for granted that we can't take for granted, that- … not everybody's gonna have that same a- approach or feeling. And I do think it gets to like, how do you bridge divides? How do you come up with places and ways that people can truly get to fundamentally appreciate each other, understand each other, and increase that sense of belonging? That is more of a community wide, but I think it has to break down the, to individuals, too.

monica kumar.: 22:02

Thank you. I love that. And then what are your possible fears for our community, looking back, thinking about now and as we move forward?

robert burns.: 22:12

Yeah. I'll say like, I don't know if I would characterize it as a fear. I do think it's it's a challenge, which is we are growing at such a rapid pace that we just have to keep pace with that growth. I feel very confident about that future and the solutions that I think are that, that are possible. I mean, I think there's a whole variety of ways in which this could be approached, but I don't I, I don't find it as more of the fear, it's more of the embracing the challenge. And maybe there is a bit of a challenge in thinking about how we work together more as a collection of communities, like as a region, as opposed to just communities of individuals, and I do think that's possible. It means there, there has to be some degree of mindset change, and it also having people be able to work together in a way where their guard is down and that they feel like it's a safe space in which they can have some of the tough conversations and figure out like how do they work together across lines or across city boundaries. And I'm not saying that's always easy. It's just that to me, that's an incumbent part of what we have to face for the future.

monica kumar.: 23:27

That makes perfect sense. Thank you. And Robert- Sure … we ask this of all of our guests and we love asking this question because we've never had two same answers, but what does wholeness mean to you

robert burns.: 23:40

To me that it's a feeling that I hope everyone would have, which is that there's fulfillment that you feel as an individual you have what you need in order to flourish. And I use that word really intentionally 'cause flourish to me is a really powerful word. Flourish could be like in the smallest way possible that you're you feel like you're flourishing as an individual, you're flourishing in the place that you live. But it can be escalated, like it could have a significantly higher meaning. But I think it has to be graduated to where the person is, and that feeling of being able to actually say that I think is really powerful to be able to then say, "I'm… I feel as whole as I can be as a person."

monica kumar.: 24:31

Thank you. That's beautiful. Thank you.

robert burns.: 24:33

Sure

monica kumar.: 24:34

Thank you. We so appreciate it having you with us.

robert burns.: 24:36

Yeah, absolutely. My pleasure. My honor.

mike rusch.: 24:40

Well, Robert, it is truly an honor to be able to share a table with you and Monica and so just incredibly thankful for you, and thank you for sharing your, more of your personal story as well too. It's a beautiful story, and I'm so thankful to to be able to have you share that with so many people who in many ways, like they wanna know who is this person behind- what is some really beautiful and powerful things that are happening in our community. And so, Robert, thank you so much for being here and sitting with us and sharing all that you did today, so thank you.

robert burns.: 25:10

Thank you. Thank you.

monica kumar.: 25:15

Thank you, Robert, for that extra time, Robert came in to walk us through a five-year regional strategy, and then he stayed and talked about faith and belonging, which it turns out is much the same but from a different angle. He plainly named the moments in his life where he felt excluded. He talked about a faith community that didn't have room for him while he was working out who he was, and the long road back to a practice that did. He kept returning to one word, hope, in his work, in his life, and he shared what that looked like after a hurricane leveled a town he was living in. He saw communities of faith come together, whatever their congregation, to rebuild and reconnect. He felt and saw faith in action. Robert and Chris have built their home here in Northwest Arkansas and found a sense of belonging with a local church, one we've spoken with previously this season. What stays with me is how closely the belonging Robert builds professionally runs alongside the belonging he's had to find for himself personally. They don't seem to be two separate things, and my own experience also reflects that. My community-focused work and my sense of self feel intrinsically connected, and it feels like this is a thread this season keeps pulling at and into. The faith of Northwest Arkansas isn't an abstraction. It's people and our connections to each other. It's the decisions we make institutionally and personally about who is welcome, what it costs to say so, and if that welcome comes with conditions, both visible and unseen threads. If something you heard today is sitting with you about belonging, about this place, about what we're building together, then please send us a voice message at theunderview.com. We always want to hear from you.. And of course, thank you to Robert for being such an open and authentic guest. Thank you for listening, This is The Underview, an exploration in the shaping of our place and our faith