Politics of Healthcare: Part 1- Gun Control Legislation with Rep Deb Andraca and Dr Megan Schultz

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The following is brought to you by the committee to protect healthcare.

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In the emergency department, we see real time consequences of people not having access to health care. Expansion of Medicaid in Wisconsin would mean less cases to the emergency department. It would prevent closures of hospitals in our communities, and most importantly, save lives. The majority of states in the country have expanded Medicaid with bipartisan support, yet legislators in Wisconsin are blocking expansion of Medicaid. They're blocking the opportunity for our patients to have a healthier life. Tell your legislator to save lives and pass Medicaid expansion.

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this is a CBS News special report. I'm Nora O'Donnell in New York and we are coming on the air with breaking news with another school shooting this time about 45 miles northeast of Atlanta in Barrow County, Georgia. Now the local sheriff's department said a suspect is in custody and there are reports. we're also learning three of the four killed were pronounced dead at the scene, and another victim died at the University of Alabama Birmingham Hospital. Now, Birmingham police don't yet know what precipitated this event murder for hire plot that led to a mass shooting in Birmingham. leadership and tactics and communications and training and in preparedness were made by law enforcement lawyers and others responding to the mass shooting at Robb Elementary. When he went in the classroom, he said, you are all gonna die. I was playing dead, so he was shoot me 10-year-old Samuel Sena, one of the few survivors from his class now recovering after an injury to his leg. He shot my teacher and then he shot the kids. and a teacher. And in the last 10 days, we've had elderly black people killed in a supermarket in Buffalo. We've had Asian churchgoers killed in Southern California. And now we have children murdered at school. When are we going to do something? Welcome to pulse check, Wisconsin. Good morning. Good evening. Good afternoon. Whatever it is for you. This is Dr. Chris Ford, again from Pulse Check Wisconsin. And I wanted to introduce you to this special series that we'll be doing. Here in the month of October leading into November. In the November elections. If you guys haven't. been Paying attention. There is a large election that is coming up both nationally, as well as at the state level. And so. The idea for this series is to provide you some of the key topics and key issues that are going to be affecting your health In a moment in which it is going to be. Very conducive for you to be participating at a civic level. Well, we've seen. Around this time of year is a lot of muck racking, or a lot of you know, name calling and a lot of false information that may be out there, both on social media as well as sometimes in the media. Unfortunately. And what I wanted to do with this series is to provide you. Some valid information for, from key folks that are involved in the ground level of a lot of these issues. We'll have on today's episode. A state representative Deb Andraca who is the, state representative for the 23rd assembly district. And Deb has been very vocal in terms of establishing some forms of gun control and parameters for. The safe acquisition of guns in the state of Wisconsin. And so we'll have her on just to talk a little bit about her experience as both a legislator. As well as a former educator. Who, as we all know, unfortunately in modern times, educators have been faced with the threat of gun violence in terms of the plethora of mass shootings that we've been seeing. We'll also be having on a colleague of mine, Dr. Megan Schultz. Dr. Megan, is a pediatric emergency physician and she is also an advocate for gun control here in the state of Wisconsin. She's given many talks and has done many articles and the Milwaukee journal Sentinel. So I would definitely recommend you check those out, but more so her perspective is coming from a provider who is on the ground level, taking care of kids specifically. Who have been victims of gun violence and the toll that, that takes not only on the community and on the child and on the families, but also on her as a provider as well. And so again, this entire series is going to delve into topics. That are real life and that are going to affect your life day to day. And that are all going to be on the ballot. This election season. No. Time to do a little bit of housekeeping. I'm going to keep it a buck, which, and we'll keep it 100%. As always here at pulse check Wisconsin. I want to respect everyone's political views. I don't pick a side in terms of advocating. One side or the other. Some of the issues that I talk about outside of this platform, you may see me on TV. You may hear me on the radio. Or some of the articles that I will release. I usually speak to policy specific issues. And again, that's outside of this platform. Now everybody has their own politics. And I don't think you've got to do a lot of lawn division two. No where my politics stand, but at the same time, I want to respect everyone's views. And I want to give everyone a platform in order to make their own decisions. At the end of the day, we're all Wisconsinites and we all want the best for our children. And we want to make sure that we all have a say in how our communities are communities of interest. And how our laws and all the parameters to keep our families safe and keep our families prosperous, want to have a say in how those things are done and the best way to do that is not only to. Participate civically. And that's by voting, but also to have. The ability to make purposeful change in your community. And so that means that your vote actually counts. A lot of work that I've done in the past, including in terms of any legislative, map creation, we have really advocated for having maps that are fair and balanced for. individuals throughout the state of Wisconsin. And for the first time in about 12 years, we have that during this election. At least at the assembly and the state Senate level. So even more so than before, we want to make sure that our elections are competitive. We want to make sure that your. Voice is heard in these elections, so. What I want everyone who is under the power of my voice to do right now. Is too. Check to see if you are registered to vote. Because again, all of these things that we're going to talk about in the next couple. Episodes are going to be key, hot button topics that are going to be involving your life and evolving Wisconsinites involving your neighbors, your parents, your children, everyone. And I want you to participate. In that discussion and those decisions as well. And the only way for you to do that is to make sure that you are civically engaged and to make sure that you're voting, because if you're not voting, then your opinion doesn't count on paper. So with that being said, During these short series. I won't be doing any case reviews, but what I want you to do is I want you to look at all of the information that I will post to the website correlating with these episodes. I want you to. Go to myvotewisconsin.gov to check to see if you are registered to vote. And I'll post that to the website as well. So with that being said, This is our first in the series. This show, and this episode will be focused around the issue of gun violence. As you'll hear from our two experts, gun violence is something that affects all walks of life. Both here in the state of Wisconsin and throughout the country. As you can tell from the intro. And I got to admit, I've teared up a little bit. Hearing the intro. Being a father, being, just someone that, has to live and work in this world. In which we have such. A plethora of mass shootings. This is something that will affect everyone who is listening to this recording. Whether you're pro gun or pro legislation for gun control, there is something in this interview. That you can take away and something that you can take with you. When you're trying to make a decision. Of who you want to vote for? How they will vote to act pro or against your point of view and Hope you ask the question. who should be making these decisions. So with that being said, I won't take too much away from Dr. Schultz Representative Andraca they dropped some truth bombs here. So with that being said, let's go ahead and start with our interview with representative Deb Andraca and Dr. Megan Schultz. I'm State Representative Deb Andraca. I am the State Representative for the 23rd Assembly District. That includes Whitefish Bay, Fox Point, Bayside, River Hills, Brown Deer, Mequon, and Theansville I was first elected in 2020 and I'm currently running for a third term. I'm Megan Schultz. I am a pediatric emergency physician and an associate professor of pediatrics. Thanks so much for being with us So, you know, what we wanted to do at the very beginning of this episode, we kind of gave an intro just to talk about the levity of what we're going to talk about today. So how commonplace, unfortunately, it has become this. epidemic of just gun violence, mass shootings, things like that. I was looking over for just a little bit of research before today. And what I found was even last night before the day of this recording, which is September 23rd, there was another mass shooting in Alabama, I believe on the 22nd that I didn't even hear about. Right. And so like, that's just how commonplace and how saturated we're becoming. You know, with this, this horrible, again, this epidemic that we're facing with gun violence just from more so of a policy standpoint, I'll start with you, just what is the general sentiment amongst your constituents regarding gun control and gun violence here in the state of Wisconsin, as well as in the country? Well, Wisconsin ranks about 21 out of 50 for gun law strength in the country. And we know that states that have stronger gun control laws have fewer gun deaths. So when I decided to run for office, I really came to this through the lens of getting better gun laws in Wisconsin. I was working as an elementary school teacher, and we always had to do lockdown drills. And I saw the effect that it was having on my students and my own two daughters in school and just really thought we needed to do something. So I started volunteering with Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense, and one thing led to another. So when I ran for office it really came out of that experience and being in the city When Governor Evers called a special session to try to get the legislature to take up better gun laws and they gaveled out in a matter of seconds. So I ran first and foremost on trying to get better gun laws and create safer communities. And I defeated a 14 year incumbent under gerrymandered maps. So as a gauge for where my constituents stand on it, I mean, I think that speaks pretty powerfully, and which is why ever since I've been elected, I've been trying to get better gun laws. Absolutely. And you know, I speak for everyone in thanking you for being such a steadfast advocate for gun control and gun safety in the state of Wisconsin. You mentioned a couple groups there, you know, moms demand action, which that in every town are many groups that have spawned out of this epidemic of gun violence. And from some of the statistics that I saw. Recently, since Columbine, which, you know, I was in school at that time, I remember it vividly, what I was doing that day in 1999, since that time, 417 school shootings have occurred, and there have been over 383, 000 students affected by gun violence and experienced gun violence since that time, just to kind of show you the levity and show you, how far we have come. Thank you. From this event, Columbine being the first time that we all witnessed that, and now it's just everyday thing, unfortunately, Megan, from your standpoint, can you describe your experiences treating children who have been victims and have been exposed to gun violence as a pediatric ER doctor? Yeah, absolutely. So. The gun violence I see almost daily in a large academic children's ER tends not to be school mass shootings. It tends to be one offs. So I see accidental shootings where, you know, a child finds a gun in the home and accidentally shoots themselves. I see. Shootings where kids are playing with a gun inappropriately. So, you know, a 12 year old at a friend's house for a sleepover and the house where the sleepover is happening has a gun and unbeknownst to the parents, the kids play with it and someone gets shot. I definitely see sort of drive bys or you know, A barren shooting that goes through home ceilings and home walls and harms children. And then I see targeted shooting also, where kids are using guns to express violence toward each other. Yeah. And for all of our listeners, you know, Megan works at what we call the level one trauma center. And so that's usually where all the pediatric traumas are going to go. Usually in any, any large institution. And so we're very fortunate in Milwaukee and in Wisconsin to have one of the two pediatric level one trauma centers available. But it is something that is very eyeopening and something that is affecting a lot of our youth. You know, like Megan was saying, not even from the standpoint of a mass shooting, But one off shootings and how commonplace that we're seeing and a lot of that is due to some of the things that we're going to talk about in terms of our current gun control laws. So in getting to that, can you explain to us just what are the current gun control laws here in state of Wisconsin and how effective or ineffective do you believe that they are at this time? Well, it depends what you're, you're currently talking about in terms of, you know, whether it's concealed carry or storage in general. The 3 most important. And when I say most important, I believe data driven. If you're going to have 3 laws, you really need to get background checks on every single gun sale. You need to have a safe storage provisions to make sure that people are storing their guns properly where kids in particular can't can't get them and you need to have extreme risk protection orders, which is a means to take guns away from people who, you know, are dangerous. And are at risk of harming themselves or others. And so in terms of those big three, Wisconsin does not have any extreme risk protection orders, sometimes called red flag laws. We have in terms of background checks, If you buy a gun at a licensed firearms dealer, you will have a background check run on you. However there is no background check requirement for private sales. So I get constituents calling me all the time saying, My neighbor is selling a gun at their garage sale. That can't be illegal. Unfortunately, it is. Because that's a private sale, a sale from one person to another, if you're not a licensed firearms dealer, is legal. And that is how a lot of people get their hands on guns, whether that's online or from a neighbor or from somebody that you meet. And if you remember back to the Asana spa shooting here in Brookfield that is how domestic abuser got his hands on some firearms. We also don't have any requirements for safe storage sort of to the gun owner. There have been bills to have, you know, to repeal sales tax on gun safes for requirements and all kinds of things, but we haven't been able to pass any of those so we've nibbled around the edges, but there's so much more Wisconsin can do. Yeah, and you brought up a couple of good points there. And one thing that I wanted to touch on was, a lot of the fanfare and a lot of the media that was around specifically that domestic abuser bill that went through the United States Supreme Court, right? 2022 when there was this huge movement and a lot of the guns, right? Lobbyists, that were on the On the fence of, we don't want to remove this right for people who are domestic, abusers which is just arbitrary and just insane considering the actual statistics that we have to say you're five times higher if you are in a domestic abusive relationship to be a victim of gun violence, if there is a gun in the home. Right. And so some of this, these statistics that we bring up all the time you know, when Megan and I go to these events, when I go to these events, these are things that go in one ear and out the other. It seems like in some cases but I guess kind of getting to that, How do you balance those concerns of gun rights advocates with those advocating for stricter gun laws? In Wisconsin, everyone knows we, you know, up, up until, you know, hopefully the next election we have been very divided and, and the parties have been very, very far apart. For every gun you know, law that usually Democrats try to introduce on safe storage or trying to close the, you know, background check loophole. There's another one that wants permitless carry and wants teachers to be armed in school. So it's been really, really hard to, have both sides come together. For my personal experience, I didn't grow up in a household with a lot of guns. We a Springfield rifle, but only because my family's from Springfield, Massachusetts, where they were from and so when my father passed away he, you know, went to the shooting range with friends, a Republican member of the NRA. I inherited his handguns. That gave me an opportunity to learn. More about gun culture. So I shipped the guns to me, saw all the loopholes in that process. I got my concealed carry permit where I learned that in Wisconsin, you do not have to fire your gun to get a concealed carry permit. You never have to fire it. You have to learn to check it and load it and unload it. But I had to take an additional course on basic handgun certification in order to learn how to fire My weapon. And so it was like, I suddenly, it dawned on me that there are people in target with concealed carry permits who maybe have not fired their gun or haven't been to the range in a very, very long time. And that's dangerous. So what I try to do is get as informed as I can, seek out opinions from people who might not agree with me. I've spoken with people who in the firearms manufacturing industry you know, people, you know, who are I have a gun range in my district. I talk to the owner all the time. So to try to understand, to try to bridge those divides, because there has to be a level of trust. We honestly there, we don't want to take guns away from everybody. And there are legitimate reasons where people feel unsafe. We want people who own guns to store them safely, to use them, and to be trained and have the qualifications so that they're not an accidental risk to others. Yeah, and you know, that's a good point in itself. You know, I think what was most prudent in the most recent debates is the fact that, you know, both candidates were, were Harping on this this concept of gun ownership and gun control, right? One way or the other. And I think what the vice president brought up that was very pointed with the fact that she said herself that she was a gun owner and that she's not trying to take anyone's gun away from them. And so I think that's kind of the, the, the moniker that a lot of folks harp on. And a lot of folks, find that division. What we're, what we're trying to say in this, when we say gun control, we're not trying to take your second amendment right away from you. We're just trying to make so that children are safe, make it so that the communities are safe and that we have provisions in place in order to prevent these mass shootings or emptying multiple rounds per second, you know in these, in these events. So, and I guess that takes it back to a good, good question for you, Megan, how do you approach. Or your colleagues approach discussions with, with parents with regards to gun safety and families as well. Yeah, I, I agree with so much of what you guys are saying. I think. I tend to think about gun violence as a public health issue, right? So it's the number one killer of children in America. And when I say children, I mean zero through 17 years old. And I think there just needs to be a lot of sort of education and awareness building around that fact alone. I think just talking to parents and community members and teachers about the fact that Guns are the number one killer of children is eye opening. And that should change our entire perspective. I mean, yes, we need to pass these three laws. We also, if we can look at gun violence sort of through the lens of public health, we can pass other laws or just change behaviors that make guns. sort of perceived as dangerous as they are. So you know, I think there's sort of a glorification of guns in our culture. Kids are playing video games that have guns in them from a very early age. Guns are on TV. Guns are on movies. You know, kids play with guns, like little practice guns. We've seen how terribly tragic that can end when a police officer is confused by a toy gun. So there's just a lot of like cultural changes I think we can make. And I, I liken it to something like cigarette smoking. That was a cultural shift that we went through about 20 years ago. Where all of a sudden it became less cool. That wasn't all of a sudden it took, it took a couple of decades. Cigarettes became less cool, right? Like in the. 60s, people were smoking on airplanes and smoking in hospitals, and everyone in the movies who was cool had a cigarette. That has dramatically changed now. I mean cigarette companies are forbidden to advertise to children. They are forbidden to advertise in magazines. They I think just like the, even the packaging is different and that has helped change sort of the culture of smoking. And I think we can do a lot of the same things with guns. So how I talk to parents about it is really just raising awareness. Did you know that guns are the number one killer of children? I think another thing that I talked to parents about that red flag law is so important. Something we forget is that 60 percent of gun deaths, this is and in the United States as well, are suicides by gun. That's, That's not a school shooting. That's not like, oh, a drive by. That's like someone is in dire mental health straits and needs help. And because they had easy access to a gun, they went ahead and they were very successful in their suicide attempt. Guns are extraordinarily lethal whether you're suicide or homicide. And that's something we could work on too, is just like the lethality of the bullets, the lethality of the gun. So yeah, I guess, How I talked about a parents is just education, safety. You can, like Deb said, I'm not trying to take away your gun. I'm trying to make it safe for your family to have one and for you to feel safe just in our society. I mean, I think I talked to a lot of parents who. really feel uncomfortable going to parades or, you know, parties or concerts because our culture has sort of seeped in this idea that everyone is armed, sometimes concealed, no one's checking for it, no one's licensed, no one's registered and that's terrifying. So I think we as a society need to kind of take that back and say, no, actually this is not the kind of place I want to live. This is not the kind of place I want to raise my kids. And, you know, Megan, I grew up in a community that was very similar to North side of Milwaukee. My parents, you know, both had guns, grandparents had guns, and it was more so of, a safety issue. Right. It was an issue of, getting place to place. And a lot of folks in Wisconsin, especially here in Milwaukee feel that way. But in, in my own personal experience, I feel that the frequency of these, these shootings has changed, you know, there was, there was always drab as it was always, unfortunately something would go down on the playground, et cetera, et cetera. But in the course of your career, how has the frequency of gun related injuries and children's changed over the course that you've seen so far? It has dramatically increased. I mean, shockingly so. I graduated my pediatric residency, which is sort of the first training you do after medical school in 2015. And in the 3 years that I was in pediatric residency, I only saw 1 child shot with a gun. I was living in a state at the time that had much better gun control laws than Wisconsin and Massachusetts, shout out. But I, so when I came to Wisconsin in 2015, it was already increased. Like there was a dramatic change just coming from Massachusetts to Wisconsin. But then there was another huge increase around 2020. COVID, George Floyd's murder. Just sort of societal unrest. There's a lot of sort of structural instability at that time. I'm talking about kids not going to school, kids not having after school pro programs, kids you know, not having enough to eat. So I think all of those issues really led to increased gun violence. And now we're at a point where on average we see three kids shot with a gun a week. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. And you bring up so many other things that go into it. Right? So, there's so many other parameters that go into gun violence. I know there's a lot of community groups like 414 life, et cetera. And even the Medical College of Wisconsin has its own violence prevention, in addition to the Office of Violence Prevention for the city of Milwaukee, that's trying to intercalate into, how can we prevent it before it gets to that point? Right. And so I think you bring up a good point that, you know, the gun legislation and the, the gun control is one aspect of it, but there are so many of these other things that we need to grapple with in terms of, coming up with resolutions from a community standpoint, and maybe even a legislative standpoint too. So I'll bring that over to Deb and I don't want to bring up any PTSD for you here. But can you talk about any upcoming bills or any past bills? I know you said that the legislative majority gaveled in, gaveled out really quickly during the last session with regards to any legislative efforts in that respect. But are there any that are upcoming with regards to addressing gun control in the state of Wisconsin? Well, I certainly hope so. This is where I try to inject a little bit of positivity on a subject that Chris is very familiar with is our, our fair maps. And so this is a important election in Wisconsin, because for the past decade, we have been under gerrymandered maps, which means Democrats are in very blue districts, Republicans are in very red districts. We have a brand new legislative session coming up after the election in November. We'll all be sworn in the first week of January. Under those new maps, we have legislators who are, there are a lot more legislators who are in what we call the purple districts. So they're really 50 50. Like, when I was elected in 2020 and I flipped the district from Republican to Democratic I realized that, you know, I had to represent all All of my constituents, because it's a 50 50 district. That's a different kind of legislating than we have seen from a lot of people who live in these very, very red or very, very blue districts. I am optimistic that we can elect those people who have to really listen to their constituents and what they're saying. Cause we know poll after poll shows 80, 82 percent of Wisconsinites want to see the legislature pass these very basic gun safety laws. So in terms of what bills are coming up, I believe we're going to kind of hit the reset button in January, where we're going to have an opportunity, I hope, to start talking across party lines to those legislators who have been elected saying that they support common sense gun laws. So I was the chair of the legislative gun safety coalition where legislators come together and we talk about what bills we're going to introduce. I do hope that going forward that we might see a little bit more bipartisanship and in that coalition and also public hearings, we have never had a public hearing on. Background checks, red flag laws, all of these basic fundamentals. And if we can't have a public hearing, if we can't talk about it, we can't compromise and we can't move forward. Would love to see us at least start having, starting to have those public hearings where we're talking about, you know, what are your hesitations on these bills, there's model legislations from states all across the country. Let's come up with something that works for Wisconsin. Yeah. And that was going to be my next question, because a lot of our listeners, when this topic came up, they sent in questions about, you know, what has been the holdup? Like, you know, we have the evidence here. We see things that are going on. From your standpoint, Deb, do you know? Like, can you put yourself in the mind of these folks who are so, anti to any passage of legislation to control? Is there any incentive to not do it? Or what are your thoughts? In a word, it's been the partisanship that's been driven by the gerrymandered MAPS. So I try to make it a point to talk to all of my Republican colleagues. And when I'm talking about these kinds of gun bills, I try to do it behind closed doors. That way I can kind of understand where they're coming from, where some of the holdup And I know that there are some of my Republican colleagues who would be in favor of these things coming forward. That's the legend. It's the leadership. So the leadership in each party is really the ones who decide what bills get public hearings, what gets to move forward. And so that was really where the holdup is because I am convinced that there's more broad based support of these bills But leadership has, you know, I'm not invited to Republican leadership meetings, so I don't know exactly what's happening. We'll have to see. I don't know if it's the gun lobby, I don't know if it's just ideological, but that we have not been able to, you know, to break through that wall. So hopefully going forward, we can start doing a little bit more of that when we have more people who are looking at those 50, 50, 50 districts and are just interested in breaking out of the just ideological boxes that we've been stuck in for so long. Yeah, absolutely. And Megan, from that standpoint, too, I recently attended Doctor's Day on the Hill, and I was able to meet, some of my representatives, including Deb here, who we've already met, but I was able to see Deb in person and my newly elected state senator. And we talked about, some things that physicians can do from our standpoint to advocate. You do a lot of advocacy. I'll, I'll attach your YouTube video as well for the speech that you gave recently. That was tremendous and I appreciate you doing that. What can physicians or healthcare professionals do to help provide that context that you just gave us here, you know, talking about the day to day things that you're seeing, how it's really affecting folks on the ground. How can we be helpful? Yeah, I think this is something I think about every day. Like, what can I be doing? Because that That feeling of obstruction with a policy is really frustrating, especially when we learn that like 80 percent of people across both parties really support these common sense gun laws. So, yeah, I think a lot of what my colleagues and I try to do is the awareness building. So I recently was able to speak to the Milwaukee County Medical Society. And same thing my colleague and I just sort of describe what we see every day and how guns are the number 1 killer of children. And these are physicians who are in our county. They're not necessarily pediatricians, but and not necessarily ER doctors, but. They see all the same patients we do, and even among doctors, there was a general sense of surprise that the number 1 killer of children, so, I think education is huge. I also think that there is a sense, and I think this comes from racism, that gun violence is a black problem in Milwaukee. And I do think it's helpful for physicians. Reset the equation there and to talk about what's really happening. The problem is guns. It's not the color of your skin. So I do feel a sense of responsibility there. I'm a white person and I can tell you like statistically what we're seeing 60%. Of gun deaths are suicide. And actually, the majority of those deaths are white people. And across the spectrum of race, I've seen kids shot because of unsafely stored guns and you know, guns that had been sold illegally. And it really has nothing to do with race. So that's another thing I think that physicians can sort of just shed light on. Or kind of uncouple this idea that like, this is a black problem. And then also I think as a Physician who's a parent I try to talk to families in my neighborhood and you know, my my kids friends and stuff about anytime there's a play date I ask if there's a gun in the home and how it's stored. And I think slowly that's becoming more common It's I always find it interesting that we talk about like You know, is anyone allergic to nuts? When like Right, right, right. Allergies are not even in the top 10 causes for cancer. No, no, but everybody's got the EpiPen. Not everybody has a, has a lock box, we should definitely be talking about guns and gun storage in the home. And not necessarily, you know, these other things that we tend to be obsessed with. Like, is there a cat? Like, I can deal with runny eyes and runny nose from that. I cannot deal with a gunshot wound in a child. So those are some of the ways I try to advocate. Another thing that I, I think is important is you know, you mentioned that even in your own family there was a feeling that guns make you safer. And I, I can totally appreciate that feeling. I have people in my family who feel the same way. And I, I just try to bring Facts to that idea, which is guns do not make you safer, regardless of gender age whether or not you're a victim of domestic abuse or not a gun in your home makes you more likely to die by gun. And I don't think a lot of people know that. I think there's again, our culture tends to glorify guns and there's a feeling that like, oh, my God, we'll make if there's a break in or if I don't even know what people think they're going to do with their gun. I'll keep it with me and I'll be the person. Yeah. No. Statistically speaking, you are far more likely to die by gun if you have a gun. When I took my concealed carry class, I was shocked because that's what they kept talking about. They kept talking about, you know, when someone went, when they break down your door, you have five seconds to get your fire, your family. And when I raised my hand, I was like, they're going for my wallet and my iPad downstairs. Like, I'm not going upstairs to, you know, statistically, like tell me a little bit more and, but. But that was the emphasis of the class. And then the instructor held me up for class, and he's like, I know who you are. It was, he was armed, and I'm like, let's just, you know, I'm trying to bring facts to the discussion. And that's where someone like me, who has a D after my name, You know, I, it's limited in what I can say, but for both of you who have an MD after your name, you are in every community, every district, and you bring that level of credibility to the discussion where, you know, in the Capitol, we might talk past each other all day, every day. And I'll just tell you a quick example. And I was the lead author on the extremist protection order bill. I was trying to get one of my Republican colleagues to sign on and he wouldn't, you know, A constituent called him and he's like, well, you know, I haven't had a chance to look at it. So and then the constituent called me and said, oh, I just had this conversation. He hasn't seen the bill. So I literally took the bill walked it down to his office put it in his hand. I'm like call him in 10 minutes And he signed up It's this tag team, like, you know, you, he could hear from me all day, but until he's hearing from a constituent and that was a member of the physicians for gun safety group, like one of his constituent doctors called him, told him the facts. He had the bill and he ended up being a co sponsor. Didn't get a public hearing, but it's, you know, it's those kinds of working together you know, to try to bring both facts and credible messengers into the, into the equation. Yeah, no, absolutely. And that brings up a good point. Both of you brought up, you know, Megan was bringing up the fact that having more guns doesn't necessarily make you safer. There was a podcast I was listening to. It's called Military Mentor, where it's a retired military guy who lives overseas. He lives in Europe, and he brought the same issue of, you know, you feel like you need to get a gun. Somebody else feels like they need to get a gun. Or, right. Et cetera, et cetera. There's, there's no number to cap and essentially, it turns into this environment where there is a plethora of guns and there, there increases the amount of chance that you're going to have a shooting or, or an adverse event. If somebody pulls a gun on you, You're obligated to pull your gun, et cetera, et cetera. He was mentioning in Europe, you know, this, this is not a thing. Like it's not, it's not something that he's the expat, right? This is not something that he sees when disagreements crop up over and over again. So it's definitely something, unfortunately, that is ingrained, in our culture and in our society. And like you said, it's cool to a certain extent, Megan, right? It's been made this cool thing you know, like cigarettes once were, but it is a devastating factor into our public health. But with regards to what Deb was saying too, you know, there are multiple bipartisan gun approaches, control measures that have been done in other states. Do you know of any specifically that, that Wisconsin can learn from Deb, in terms of any other states or any other areas that have benefited from bipartisan support? Large part bipartisanship has usually arrived, unfortunately, after some sort of mass shooting or event in the news. I, you know, I'm thinking of in, in Maine where they had the, the shooter and one of the local Republicans, you know, finally came out and, regretted that he had been standing in between you know, standing in the way of, of getting gun laws. And I'm always telling my colleagues, like, Let's not wait till Wisconsin's, right? Like, let mm-Hmm, let's get in front of it so people don't have to die. Before, before we take action I'll give a a, a shout out on a couple of things on the Journal. Sentinel did an amazing series reporter John Dietrich it's called The Behind the Gun Series, where, you know, he was talking with gun owners and, and bringing in suicide, and you know, where that factors in. So we can have these, these honest conversations. One of the speakers was Mike Cedini. And he's at Walk the Talk America where he's in the gun industry and they are trying to bring both suicide prevention into working in the gun industry, but also, you know, bringing that perspective of gun owners to the debate. I mean, I talk with a lot of my democratic colleagues where they're just like, all guns are bad. We should get rid of them all. And I'm like too late. They're not going to happen. There was a constitution that was signed. If you want to go back. Yeah, well, there was a gun shop bill, which should have passed where we're giving, you know, suicide education and funding for it to gun shops so that they can help identify people who may be coming in, who are at risk. And there's a real reluctance on the part of a lot of Democrats. Like, why would we give money to gun shops? I was like, so people don't die. So there's education on both sides that really, really. Has to happen. And so, you know, looking at what they're doing in in other states and bridging those different industries hopefully Wisconsin doesn't have to wait till I'm actually doing in order to do it. Exactly. Exactly. Megan, more so in your opinion, What policies or laws, would have the most significant impact on reducing gun related injuries and deaths in children, in terms of the injuries that you see commonly? I think safe storage is critical. So many of the kids I see have accidentally shot themselves with a family gun. Or even, I mean, terribly tragically, I've seen parents actually shoot their own children with a gun. So I think that would be huge. We actually are trying, in my ER, we've gotten a grant to give out gun locks and gun safes towards this measure. I do think going to our, one of our previous topics, There is sort of this like idea that like, Oh, if my gun is locked, then I won't be ready when there is the home invasion, whatever. So we do need to work on that a little bit. But I, I also think there we talked a little bit about like the lethality of guns and bullets. There have been like incredible, I don't even know the word for it, like technological advances how lethal our weapons are. And I don't think any of that is necessary. Like you know, I don't know why we need AR 15s. I don't know why those need to be legal. I, some of these like, you know, the rounds that just keep going and you don't even have to non stop and pause. Bump stops. Yeah, exactly. I don't think that needs to be legal. 3D printing of guns, like any policy that will just Like, let's just slow down a little bit, you know, have a gun safely, register it, have a license, take some classes, just like you would to like drive a car, very similar. And then and then the, like the bullets also the single gunshot wound that we see in children that just. tears apart their little bodies is devastating. And that is precisely because of these like hollow point bullets that break into a million shards once they're inside and they ricochet everywhere. I don't know why those need to be legal either. Like, can, can we just go back to regular bullets that like will kill a deer if you need to? But like, I don't, I think there's a lot of policy around like the gun itself or the bullet itself that we could work on, including like biometric locks. Why isn't it, why isn't every gun have a biometric lock? You need to like use your thumbprint to turn the gun on. That would be quick. You don't have to like, you know, fuss with the lock or anything. Just make that, Every gun. You can't have a gun unless you have a biometric lock. I'm not a representative though, so these are just my random ideas. Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think What you're saying is common sense to most people, but there is just this attitude where, you know, you can, you know, throw facts around and data and talk, I mean, talk about the bullets, and then they just, you know, They will look at you and just say second amendment and walk away. Well, I mean, you know, nothing is absolute. I mean, so we, I always try to, to explain how we need to get back to a culture of gun safety and we, the NRA used to provide, you know, education. And that's where you went to get your hunter education classes. And now we've got, you know, lobbyists, you know, in the Wisconsin state Capitol wearing AR 15 lapel pins. And that is just beyond the pale, so we, we have to, you know, to, to start tipping back and, and, you know, responsible gun owners, modeling that kind of behavior and showing, you know, you, you can own guns and you have the right, but you also have the responsibility to do it safely for the safety of your family and for everyone around you. As you would a car, right? As you would any other device that could potentially harm folks. I think, especially with that sort of mantra and that behavior of wearing the lapel pins and thumping the chest and things like that. I often invite those people. And I did during Dr. Day on the Hill a couple of years ago, too. Come and come with me to the ER if you want to, like, I want you to see what I see. And before, you know, Megan, I quoted an excerpt from your article that you did in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. And the title of it was, you know, what keeps an ER doctor up at night? The sound a mother makes after her child dies. I don't want anyone to hear that sound. I don't want anyone to experience the loss of a child when it is easily preventable, you know, and for the sake of, for folks, to walk around and feel as though, you know, they have this bravado about them. That's ridiculous. Yes. I totally agree. I was just at like a bouncy house with my kids and there was a mom there walking around with an AR 15 t shirt that said, And I, I had, I'm sure it's from my PTSD from hearing that sound way too many times I had this visceral reaction. I almost started crying. Like, wow, what's, what have we done as a country as like, as individuals? I said, a parent would wear that to a child gear event, like that, that sound changes you and seeing the stuff that we see, you know, over and over again, it changes you and it changes your perspective. Like I said, you know, I grew up around a lot of gun violence, unfortunately, but being in that situation now as an adult, now as a parent, that changes your whole purview and your whole perspective of how you see it, especially when you're seeing it over and over again, it becomes a part of you. Unfortunately, a hundred percent. Yeah. So we'll go ahead and close out, you know, Deb, I'll start with you. Any closing statements that you wanted to provide to our listeners, anything that we can do in, in terms of helping to promote, any gun safe laws, any legislative measures, things of that nature. Right now is a perfect time to be reaching out to your state legislators and candidates for state legislature, because we have a unique opportunity now to hold them accountable you know, find out where they stand make sure you're voting for them. accordingly that you are voting for candidates who say, yes, I believe in the second amendment and I also believe Wisconsin can and should be doing better because too many kids are dying because too many people are dying and we need to make sure that we can take guns away from people who pose a risk to themselves or others and then after they're elected. Hold them accountable. I, I really like to tell people because, you know, I, I used to bring volunteers to Madison to talk to their state legislators. When, when they say like, Oh, well, that bill doesn't have a public hearing. What are you doing to get it? A public hearing? Are you talking to your colleagues? You know, when can I expect to hear from you? Just making sure they're hearing from, from you, particularly your constituents. You can write to legislators all over the place, but if you vote for that person and your vote is putting them in office, you need to go to their town halls and their meetings and make sure that they're hearing from you because that kind of pressure is what we can, is what is needed to move these bills forward so we can just have public hearings, start talking about them. If we can't talk about the problem, we can't solve the problem. Absolutely. Absolutely. And Megan, any, anything that folks can do from your perspective, any, any closing thoughts yeah, I think for any parents in the audience, I would say if you have a gun in your home, consider getting rid of it just because you are safer without a gun than your children are as well. If you are a parent without a gun, I would make sure that everywhere your child is, is safe from guns. So whether that's play dates or you know, Going over to even like family Thanksgiving, like, make sure that every environment your child is in is safe from a gun to physicians and the audience. I, I would say, ask your patients about guns, especially, you know, if your primary care doctor or pediatrician, are the guns in the home? How are they stored? Do you feel safe? These are questions that can save lives. And then also, work with your physician colleagues to, you have a voice, you can talk to your representatives you can provide gun locks, you can march in parades and do these podcasts like I do, I do think physicians have a voice that people tend to listen to, so use it. And then, yeah, I just think in general, I would love for us to ask ourselves, like, I, I, Right now, when I'm asked to speak about guns, I say yes to anybody, like whether it's, you know, the gun shop owner or the women's league of voters, or I'm talking soon to like the retired educators of some county. Sure. Perfect. I just want everyone to know that guns are the number one killer of children and this is not an okay way to live. So I think just like creating that conversation, like building that awareness is really important for everyone. We're all affected by, like you said, especially the educators. Now, you know, I, I couldn't imagine going to school. For educators as well as the students to, you know, how that is going to affect them psychologically for, for years to come now, because this is their reality, gun shooter, active shooter drills are a reality for them, right? And so. You know, this is something that affects all of us. It's not a partisan issue. This is a Wisconsin issue. This is a, an American issue that we need to continue to push forward and, and, bring some meaningful change to, I always tell students, I didn't grow up with lockdown drills because it wasn't an issue until. Columbine and until our gun laws got looser, we can get back to that. I mean, our kids shouldn't grow up in this kind of a world. We need to get back to a place where we don't have to have them. There are guns everywhere now, but we need some common sense solution. And to start talking about, you know, ways that we can work across the aisle because we don't, we're the only country in the world that lives this way. This is not an issue in any other country, which tells us our solutions that we can be using. Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, representative Andraca Dr. Schultz, thank you both so much for coming out and looking forward to talking more and working together on some meaningful change Thank you so much. Thank you. This has been great. There was a recent study. They came out from the Rockefeller Institute of government. Where the foundation took a look at public mass shootings and countries similar to the United States. What it found was by no surprise that the United States was ranked number one in terms of mass shootings. At 109 shootings in that timeframe. The next country. That was number two on the list was France. And if you care to guess what their numbers of mass shootings, where. It was six. This is a uniquely American issue that we have of mass shootings and shootings in general. Again, I invited. Doctor schultz on as well as representative Andraca to give you some background into where we are in the state of Wisconsin, but, you know, We're at a point now, guys, we got to do something. This is ridiculous. There was no reason. While we should have. Such a disparity. And the number of shootings as compared to the number two in the list, which is France. Again, six, two are over 100 mass shootings in this timeframe. Regardless of how you feel. About going control and your desire to own guns. No one is trying to take your guns away from you. I guarantee you again, I grew up. With family members that all own guns. I grew up in a community where it was known. That if you didn't have a gun, in some cases, You felt as though you were unable to protect yourself and unable to protect your household. I get that. But at the same time, There should be no one. Who is lobbying at a federal level. There should be no one who is making Supreme court testimony. To the affirmative. To allow some individuals to have guns. And by that specifically, when I'm talking about. Are the lobbyists who were advocating for folks who were accused of domestic abuse and still do to this day. Advocating for them. To maintain the right. To hold guns. We have been shown in the data, and this is objective data. This isn't my opinion. This is not dependent upon check Wisconsin. This is data that you can research. A domestic abuser who has access to a gun. And the people who live with them. They have a five time risk. Of that perpetrator using the gun against them to ultimately kill them. We know this to be true. Regardless of how you feel, regardless of how you feel about your constitutional right to hold a gun. We need to follow the evidence we need. To reduce the amount of shootings. That we have in this country. We need to have common sense gun laws, period. No one else around the world has these issues, but the United States. For anyone who is contrary to that, I would invite you to come and volunteer at the EDS. I would invite you to reach out to me if you want to. Get any more information? I'm sure Dr. Schultz would feel the same way. But we are seeing babies die. We're seeing people die and get shot. Having significant disability day in and day out in this state. And around the country. These are shootings and injuries that are preventable. And as an ER doctor. I am tired of holding hands. Of people who are shot. Who don't have anyone there with him. And in some cases, kids who are dying. That have no one else in the room with them at the time. We need to do better. Take this opportunity. To reflect. On gun laws in your community. And gun laws in your state. And wherever you're listening to this recording. Make sure that you have all the facts. When you're going to the polls. When you're making these decisions, research your candidates. And research their stances on some of these issues that we're going to be talking about over the next couple episodes the only way. To make a change. Is to vote. The only way. That we're going to get to a place. Where we feel safer. Where our communities feel safer. Well, we don't have to worry about when we drop our kids off. Is that the last time we're going to see our children. The only way we're going to get to that. Is if we. Use our civic abilities. To put people in places. That can make these decisions for our communities. Here's the state of Wisconsin. Is representative on Draka CIT. We've gaveled out of session. We're playing political games. At the state level. When there are children dying. Period. The children die. And for any representative out there. Who was in the legislative majority, feel free to talk to me. I've reached out to several, feel free to talk to me. If you really want to know what's going on in these streets, if you really want to know what's going on in ECRs. Feel free to reach out to me. I can show you. But you need to do something. We're done with this as always take care of yourselves, take care of each other. And if you need me. Come and see me.