Sash & Soul
Welcome to the "Fearlessly Authentic: Sash & Soul Podcast," the show that goes beyond the stage to prioritize mindset, wellbeing, and triumphs in the pageant journey. Each episode explores the power of embracing authenticity, sharing mindset tips, self-care strategies, and inspiring success stories to help you navigate the pageant world with confidence and resilience.
Sash & Soul
#23 Beyond the Crown: Miss California 2022, Catherine Liang
Catherine Liang, Miss California 2022, is a Golden State Warriors In-Arena Co-host, Brand Ambassador to International Fashion Brands, Advocate for AANHPI (Asian American Native Hawaiian Pacific Islanders) and a Global Deals Financial Analyst. After graduating from the University of Southern California with a BA in International Relations Global Business, she worked as a private wealth analyst at Goldman Sachs focusing on estate and portfolio planning for ultra high net worth clients. In her spare time, she loves hiking across San Francisco and finding the best hidden food gems of the Bay Area.
In this episode, Catherine shares with us her extensive advocacy work within the AANHPI community through civic engagement, resources for small businesses, and anti-hate initiatives. We also discuss her experience competing for Miss America, life post-Miss California, re-finding her identity, and the story behind her initiative, Champions of Courage.
We discuss the challenges of overcoming insecurities and the fear of judgment. Catherine opens up about the need for authenticity, the importance of stepping out of your comfort zone, and intentionally being the creator of your own life.
Find Catherine here:
Instagram: @catherine_y_liang
TikTok: @catincalifornia
Email: catherine@catherineliang.com
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Socials: @sashandsoul | @fearlesslyauthenticcoach | @raeannajohnson
Websites: www.fearlesslyauthentic.com | www.sashandsoul.com
Email: info@fearlesslyauthenticcoach.com
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Welcome to the Fearlessly Authentic Sash and Soul podcast, the show that goes beyond the stage, prioritizing a healthy mindset, overall well-being and triumphs in the pageant journey.
Speaker 2:In each episode, we dive into the transformative power of embracing authenticity fearlessly, From mindset mastery and self-care strategies to success stories that inspire. This podcast is your go-to guide for navigating the pageant world with confidence and resilience. Join us as we embark on a journey of self-discovery, empowerment and celebrate the stories of those who fearlessly embraced their authenticity on the path to pageant success. I'm Lila Sherry.
Speaker 1:And I'm Rihanna Johnson. Welcome to Sash and Soul. Hey you guys, welcome back to Sash and Soul, now that we're finally recording. We had a little techie glitch there. It's all right, we got this, we got this, but really excited, long time coming. We have a guest today on Sash and Soul and just wanted to give all of you guys a shout out and thank you for sending us your requests, because our guest today has been on Lila's radar, she said before we hit record, but was also a special request from a lot of you, so really excited. I'm going to hand it over to Lila to get us started with introductions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, really quick. Here we have Catherine. She served as Miss California 2022,. As many of you may know her, she's also a Golden State Warriors in Arena co-host. She partakes in a lot of advocacy for AANHPI community with civic engagement, small businesses, anti-hate initiatives, and she also travels around her community service initiative with Champions of Courage. We'll run through all of this throughout this whole episode. I don't like to take up too much time introing because I want to turn it over to Catherine as soon as I can. But, catherine, thanks for being here.
Speaker 3:Thanks guys. I'm super, super excited to be here just chatting with some amazing powerhouse of women, but yeah, I'm just very excited, very grateful, to be on this podcast episode.
Speaker 2:Tell us a little bit about yourself in your own words, because I don't think I did you justice. You're a pretty awesome person with a lot going on, so I'll let you talk a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, as you mentioned, I was. I had the honor of serving as Miss California 2022. So my roots really are. You know, I was born and bred in California, so I have a lot of love for this state. I started off in pageantry when I was 13. They did because I found some of my greatest friends to date and without that I wouldn't have never gotten the chance to step on that Miss America stage and then subsequently into the Golden State Warriors arena. So I'm very, very grateful to my journey in California and in the Miss America organization.
Speaker 2:And then what has life looked like post Miss America post title holder life. So what does it look like now? After that, it's all over and now you're just living life.
Speaker 3:Well, we are still catching up on sleep, I can say that. But retirement life has been fantastic. I think one year of being involved in pageants is really just the beginning of opening up a lot of doors. So I fell into the Golden State Warriors role right after I gave up my crown and it's also been really nice to go back to my normal nine to five career of being in finance. So it's been a good balance of having something a little bit more normal, more stable, but then really getting to kind of up the community impact and involvement through the Warriors and some other initiatives too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, were there any difficulties that you had during your transition? I think, even selfishly, for me to hear too, like I'm about a month out now exactly from giving up my title and kind of navigating life just not as Miss Wisconsin, because you get so caught up in it it's your whole life, basically for a year, and then you're shot out at the other end of it and you're like, oh my gosh, now what Did you have any difficulties navigating that at all? And kind of like, what's advice that you'd give me per se?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Ooh, that's a good question. I think the biggest thing I struggled with was figuring out what's next. And what did I want to define myself as? Because during this year, right, you are known as Miss Wisconsin, miss California, you're known for your platform or community service initiative, and suddenly, when that's taken away, it's like oh whoa, I just get to be Catherine for the first time in a very, very, very long time, and it can be a little bit jarring. You do a lot of soul searching, I will say.
Speaker 3:But what I did realize is you're the person who created your platform. You're also the person who created all of the scenarios that led you up to becoming Miss Wisconsin, so that doesn't get taken away from you. You just get to do it without the restraint of the title, essentially. So that's the part that became really empowering. And so I realized in my life I get to be a champion of courage, and for women in finance at my company. I get to be a champion of courage for women in athletics and media at the Warriors Arena. And I also get to be a champion of courage for my cultural community, as you mentioned, the AANHPI community. There's a lot of news in San Francisco going on right now, so there's always pockets that you can find yourself in.
Speaker 1:So I want to dive into something that you had just said and it's something that I've talked to my clients about quite a bit which is like we talk about your why, what is your why? Why are you competing, and so often we hear it like it gives me a platform to do all these good, amazing things. And this last year specifically, I was like can we, can we separate those two things for just a quick second, because I don't want any of you to think cause I had like a similar identity shift after I was done being Miss Wisconsin, of feeling like oh, I just like I have no platform now, I have no power. But what you just said is like you created that and it's so true Like can we separate the title and everything that you can do as a title holder from, like what you can do as just a human being? You don't need the title to be able to do that. So I love what you had just said and I was wondering if maybe you could dive just a little bit deeper into that point.
Speaker 2:All three of those because I think all three are really important. I relate a lot as a former journalist and as somebody, a Chinese American first generation. My mother immigrated, like all three of those things.
Speaker 3:So a little bit of a long story short. My why came from a over six hour dinner conversation with one of my really good life mentors. Because he had asked me initially, like, what do you want your platform to be for? Miss California or going into Miss San Francisco? And at the time I was working in private wealth and I was one female among about 13 guys, so you can imagine it was a bit of a fraternity. And so immediately in my head I was saying, you know, I want to be an advocate for women in finance and having the opportunities to have your voice at the table.
Speaker 3:And he said, okay, that's a good one, but does finance define your entire life? Like, is that solely what you're passionate about? And I said, no, I love, you know, traveling and getting to meet new people and getting to experience different cultures. And so he asked, like, okay, is being a global citizen a big part of who you are? And I said, absolutely, that is a big component of who I am and who I want to be in the future. So he said, okay, so it sounds like finance isn't your only defining factor.
Speaker 3:So how can we dilute that even more to find out, like, what's your core statement and we went through a lot of my past experiences of having, I guess, like backtracking from you know my first exposure to patentry and getting over my fear of public speaking to being a wildfire survivor, from the 2017 Northern California Tubbs fire to being someone who went from being highly athletic and very active and going from one activity to the next to developing an autoimmune disorder and figuring out what life is like disorder and figuring out what life is like now living with this essentially disease that impacted my entire state of mind, and then also facing workplace harassment. What was kind of like the underlying theme to all of that? And we rested on a single word, which was courage, and he said okay, so your statement is you are a champion of courage. Now define that. So I think it's really nice that everyone has a slogan in life, but for me, what I realized is that being a champion of courage requires three things it's being authentic, audacious and an advocate, and to break that down.
Speaker 3:Authenticity means being not afraid to tell your story, because that's your single greatest superpower. To being able to connect with anyone in the world. Being audacious again that fearlessness, because you know life gets harder but you either get the choice to be crushed by it or you get the choice to be better and to overcome the challenges that are thrown at you better and to overcome the challenges that are thrown at you. And then, finally, the advocacy part I think is so, so, so important because you know, while every person's story is singular, you know you have the ability to impact someone else's life just by sharing that. So I think being an advocate for the communities that you identify with are critically important to to being a champion of courage.
Speaker 1:That sounds so, and I don't mean this to sound offensive at all. It sounds so broad. How do you narrow that scope?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I purposely chose it to be broad because I think when we think of platforms it's generally tied to an organization like the Red Cross or the American Heart Association and those things are very, very definitive. But my platform became my life story that I wanted to be able to share in a single statement with a young kid in an elementary school or a Fortune 500 CEO, and it's very malleable because of that. You have the ability to relate to anyone and everyone because of that and not to discredit anyone's platform that ties to a specific organization. But sometimes you don't get that level of empathy or like I really connect with you because I just haven't had experience going to the American Red Cross or understanding how painful it is to have a family member go through like cancer treatment, that those things are very specific. But I felt like my platform was hopefully universal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like it. It sounds a lot along the lines of helping anyone build resilience, no matter what it is that they're going through. Like we're all going to have our stories, we're all going to have our struggles, we're all going to have our struggles, we're all going to have our trauma and but that resilience and like what you're saying, exactly being that champion of courage, I think something that I know people struggle with when you say be authentic and tell your story, trying to understand, like, what that buzzword actually means. So I want to know, like, what you needed to do to overcome any kind of insecurities or limiting beliefs about being vulnerable with your story.
Speaker 3:Oh, the best thing I could say is to recognize that your weaknesses aren't or, like, your fears aren't indicative of your weaknesses.
Speaker 3:I think for me a big part of it was like I had a tremendous fear of failure and a tremendous fear of disappointing people.
Speaker 3:But talking with a lot of people, like you realize the only person that really cares that much about it is yourself and maybe your family, because they mean well, but end of day, no one is thinking that hard about like oh my gosh, she tripped across the stage or she fumbled over a word. And I think I really got a taste of that when I stepped outside of the pageant world and into the in arena hosting experience. It's completely different. You know, in pageantry you are curating a message of like, being very elegant and eloquent, but in the in arena space, like, you are ad-libbing and you are borderline, kind of like being a little crazy, having a lot of fun with it, but also delivering the message. So you get to show your personality a lot more and I realized how exhilarating that is to just be on camera in front of 20,000 people being my goofy, authentic self and having people say like, oh my God, I feel like I really got to know you just through that tiny little 30 second segment.
Speaker 1:So I think it's getting over the fear of judgment that people will think of you negatively and just yeah, embracing that wild, goofy side because like that's the only way people really really get to know you, yeah, and I think sometimes, like letting go of like worrying about what other people think, it's like you have to kind of start looking around at the people that you admire and the way they behave and think like, how do I think about that person and what is it about their behavior that I actually love, that draws me to them, and why am I so afraid of being like that? Because I'm so afraid that other people are going to judge me. Yet I'm sitting here enjoying that aspect about someone else.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think that's a beautiful point.
Speaker 2:And I just think it's interesting because I think back a lot of the times when we do overthink and we're constantly in our heads after like a situation. I'm a chronic overthinker, I'll overthink like every situation that I was in and to me it was like once I, like you, said, you're just being your goofy self or being your, you know, whoever you want to be in that moment. You feel better after the fact, regardless of what you think, people thought of you and I and I noticed that like the overthinking comes when I'm not being vulnerable or not being honest or real, and like that's when I overthink, versus if I'm just like I don't care, like it is what it is, like life is life, um, it just it.
Speaker 3:Like you feel better after, even though it's can be scary in the first place, so I don't know if either of you have watched inside out to yet.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not yet, it's on my list.
Speaker 3:I will try not to spoil anything, but essentially the message is that all emotions have to be felt in the present. If you let yourself be ruled by overthinking or anxiety, it prevents you from doing, and obviously we live in a world where everything is based off actions and reactions. But if we constantly just stay within our head and like what we feel is comfortable and overthinking every possible scenario, like you stop living and you start, you know, being overtaken by your imaginations or fears. So the essence of it I highly being overtaken by your imaginations or fears. So the essence of it, I highly highly recommend it. I feel like it perfectly describes what overthinking is.
Speaker 2:Yeah or not, or like not trying to push out certain emotions when they are there, even if they're quote unquote, bad it's. It's a great movie, right, you got to watch it.
Speaker 1:Especially I loved the first one, so I know I'm going to love the second.
Speaker 3:Spring tissues. I was bawling my ass.
Speaker 2:I wanted to touch on this a little bit because I think this transitions into so. Rae always says we set our intentions before the call and Catherine you had mentioned, like, my intention is to share me, choosing my own happiness and choosing myself and what, what I want out of life, and kind of navigating that lesson. I guess, for lack of a better word, Can we talk about that Like what? What do you mean by that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, in multiple respects, but I think probably the most relevant is in my career. So I am a big believer that up until you graduate from college, it is a very, very safe environment where there's pretty much not that much room to fail. You always have a safety net underneath you. But when you're kind of released from those gates, you have a choice and control over every element of your life, and that can be pretty scary to have that much power. When I graduated from USC in 2021, I was very rigid about what I wanted to do in life. I said I'm going to do private wealth management. I'm going to be an analyst for two years. Move up the ranks. Move up the corporate ladder. Eventually work my way up to being a managing director at a bul for two years. Move up the ranks. Move up the corporate ladder. Eventually work my way up to being a managing director at a bulge bracket firm, like one that is very well known on Wall Street.
Speaker 3:Did not ask at any single point during that does this actually make me happy and does this make me fulfilled? I realized very quickly that it didn't when you're in the office for 18 plus hours a day and you haven't unpacked your furniture in your apartment for four months and your mattress is still on the ground, you start to kind of question like, is this really the lifestyle that I want? And when you're in that bubble, it's very easy to say like, oh, this is the way things are done. Easy to say like, oh, this is the way things are done. But I think, whatever you believe in God, a higher power, I think really brought the Miss California experience at a relevant time where I had to step back from my role being an analyst and kind of being that like trying to be a poster child analyst and take the opportunity to actually serve my community. And when I took that step back, I realized, wow, like there is so much more to life and not just being defined by one single career path. And when I finished my Miss California year I had to reevaluate do I want to go back into the field of being in investment management? Does this actually make me happy? And I admit I applied to a lot of jobs all on LinkedIn with the specification of investment management, because that was all that I knew and every conversation that I had I felt like it feels really familiar and it feels good to be able to answer the questions correctly, but I feel like I'm not really expanding on anything that I've learned from this past year's experience of traveling the world and serving my community.
Speaker 3:I haven't really applied any of those lessons and, oddly enough, the Warriors experience came into my realm of existence at that exact time. I had accepted an offer at a boutique firm and I was set to start in October. And then the Warriors team said hey, like we would love to try you out for the preseason in October. Do you want to come and try on a Friday afternoon? And I told them Ooh, I don't know. Like I have to start my job and I, of course, need to make a good impression. Um, these are like the first two weeks. I don't know if I can, you know, commit to that much time, but every time I would kind of question like, oh, like I'm doing the right thing. I'm going to my nine to five job versus, you know, like, choosing to go to an experience where you get to be a part of world creation and experience creation.
Speaker 3:Every time I was pulled towards the warriors I felt so guilty for doing so. But I would kind of knock those thoughts down and say, no, that's not the right thing to do. You need to do something really stable and very typical Do your nine to five job. That's the right thing to do. Spoiler alert there is no right thing to do.
Speaker 3:You have seen so many cases where people will drop out of college or completely start their life over just to start a company.
Speaker 3:And I'm so, so glad that I ended up taking that leap of faith and saying you know what?
Speaker 3:I'm going to risk it for the biscuit and just see what happens. I rescinded my offer from that company. I definitely cried about it because it's scary to let go of something so certain, but I guess the larger message in it is that if you let go of something that feels really familiar, it might not be as bad as you think. You might just be making room for something that's even greater. And I'm so glad that I did, because that's the only way I would have ever gotten to do an entire season with the Warriors, gotten to meet so many incredible people and gotten to go to the Superbowl and gotten to go to Washington DC and be an advocate for women in sports. So you know, sometimes life throws you a good opportunity and then it throws you something that's unpredictable but potentially great, and if you're comfortable with it, and even if you might be a little bit uncomfortable with it sometimes, you got to take the ladder. So long story short, but yeah.
Speaker 1:How much more time has this opportunity with the Golden State Warriors allowed you to do all these other things that you are a champion of courage for? You were talking about how busy you were when you were working in finance and like just barely had time to even unpack your apartment, if any. Have you been able to really just expand the work, like to diversify what you get to do on a weekly, monthly basis with your advocacy work and getting involved in different things that you are passionate about?
Speaker 2:And working with international fashion brands. That too.
Speaker 1:There's so much about you, you have the time. Yeah, like there's so much about you, you have the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Another big belief that I have is that you make time for things that are important to you. I. It irks me to no end when people say I don't have time for something because you make time for things that are very important to you. I would say, doing the warriors and, in tandem, being a part of the passion world has opened up so many doors because just the breadth of conversations and the diversity of people that you can meet during that one year or in one single game is amazing. I think there's something to be said about having something stable and committing to a career Like. I'm still a big advocate of that, but relatively, the conversations that you'll have day in day out will be very similar.
Speaker 3:But for example, with the warriors right, I met someone who was a huge advocate in the political arena and making sure that Asian American voices are heard in government because traditionally we're very underrepresented in the voter base. Through that I got to go to Washington DC. I got to hear President Biden speak. I got to see all of the elected Asian American officials all gathered in one room and it was so incredibly inspiring and to see that kind of flow back into, you know, California elections. It's a very cool arena to be in and to see people where their entire life's mission is to advocate for the community. So I think through that you just keep saying yes, as long as you don't burn out. But I think just having the mentality of like, yes, I can and yes, this is important to me and I will make time for it, that has opened up so many doors for me.
Speaker 1:But what I'm hearing you say and again going back to this like really finding what makes you happy, it's like there's a less chance of burnout when you're not forcing yourself to do the things that you think other people think you should be doing, when you're doing things for you, when you're excited about it, when you're buzzing about it Like that's what Lila and I like to say, like we're just buzzing because we're just so excited about whatever we've got going on, Like I just your face lights up, I just how passionate you are about that advocacy, work and being involved in that arena is just it's so inspiring. But like that's the point that I always want my clients and listeners to understand is, follow what makes you feel happy, Follow your joy. Don't do it because you're pushing yourself, because you think quote unquote you're supposed to be doing something extra or more, because you're in pageants or because it's your career aspiration, or because your parents think you should, or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think anytime your mind flags this is the way it is, that's a big red flag. It just means that maybe either one you're getting too comfortable to you, taking on the opinion of someone else too seriously and kind of imposed it over your own, or three you know, maybe you're following a mold that doesn't necessarily make you happy, but you feel like it's right and that classic phrase of like you have your entire life to work but very little time to enjoy life. I think that is a big part of why you just got to be, as you said with your own intention, like stay in the present and be present with the moment just reminds me of when people say like oh, such is life, or like that's life is hard, or like those blanket statements that I'm just like, can we not?
Speaker 1:like I don't like to live that way, like yeah. I go through difficult experiences, but life is beautiful as long as you are following your joy and your bliss. Yeah definitely so I want to hear more about the work that you've done with okay, I'm going to, I have to read it with AANHPI. Can you just explain? What does that stand for?
Speaker 3:first of all, so it has been a more recent acronym. It used to just be AAPI, which stood for Asian-American Pacific Islander.
Speaker 3:But, recently to be more inclusive. We've included Native Hawaiian because they are, you know, of Polynesian descent and a really, really huge part of the Pacific Islander community. So for me, I think why that is a big part of my personal goal of advocacy is realizing how important culture shapes the way you grow up and culture shapes your perspective on the world. You grow up and culture shapes your perspective on the world.
Speaker 3:I grew up in Sonoma County, california, which is predominantly Caucasian, and so, while I did grow up with a lot of Chinese values, I never really felt like I actually connected to my culture.
Speaker 3:Weirdly enough, um I it was only until I went to USC where I believe 38% of the population is international Asian students that is a huge, huge representation of the student population where I realized, like whoa, for the first time, you know, I identify as Asian American but I just genuinely don't feel connected to my culture and I think it might be a little bit of that second generation guilt where you realize you know, if you don't preserve a lot of the elements of your culture or your traditions that your family passes down, you lose them very, very quickly because you just don't use them day in, day out.
Speaker 3:So I think it came with a fascination for how my parents grew up and the things that they cook, the little quibs that they say, and then I realized, you know, this can be so much more than just a passion project, a personal discovery. It can be a huge part of advocacy, for better or for worse. Covid aggravated a lot of the AANHPI hate crimes, but I think the positive side of that is it gave us the opportunity to speak out and finally say you know, this is something as a community, as a collective, we're not going to tolerate anymore and we really want to highlight the beautiful elements of our community and why we shouldn't be treated as lesser than so. That's a big part of why I'm involved in that.
Speaker 2:When I first started MAO at my first local, like that was my entire platform and it shifted a little bit into like how, specifically, how the media portrays Asian Americans, but then, even more so, just media literacy in general. So it's, it's cool how that developed. But, like I just remember being, like you said, like I wanted to turn this into advocacy and it was kind of the first time in my life and I think in a long time, that the Asian American community or just the Asian community in general felt that type of discourse and so so yeah, I just I wanted to touch on that and I'm really glad you shared that.
Speaker 1:What has been the most powerful experience that you've had, as like as long as you've been involved in the AANHPI? Did I do it?
Speaker 3:Yes, oh my gosh.
Speaker 1:See, now that I know what each word is, I think I can do it, yeah.
Speaker 3:What would be the most powerful experience? I guess a little bit tandem, but an opportunity I had during my Miss California days was to actually open up Resorts World during their Lunar New Year celebration and be a part of that. It seems not really in relation to what we were just talking about, but I think what is very characteristic about the AANHPI community is a celebration of life and a celebration of community, and to see an entire city like Las Vegas, nevada embrace that is so magical. To be able to bring a dance troupe of lion dancers, which is, you know, like a traditional group that you'll hear them before you see them. They'll bang the cymbals and the drums and it's basically celebrating like the power of a lion and power of a lion dancer, and it's to bring in good fortune to whatever community or whatever building that they're going to.
Speaker 3:I think that was such a beautiful moment to see all the people on the Las Vegas strip just turn their heads, smile and see this huge celebration of a very, very important holiday for Asians. So I think that was a really, really beautiful moment to be a part of. Just to stand back and say wow, like this is not just my celebration for my culture, but now I get to share that with every single person, millions of people who walk on the strip every single night. So that was amazing. Yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:It is really cool to start seeing more and more lunar new year like decor going up around businesses like I never saw that growing up so February is a month-long celebration now.
Speaker 3:It's not just 12 days, it is yes yes, exactly, let's.
Speaker 1:Let's dive back into your pageant experience. Um, so you started when you were 13. Were you always part of the Miss America opportunity?
Speaker 3:I did it one year and then I took a 10-year hiatus. I did, uh, the Distinguished Young Woman, or it formerly was known as America's Junior Miss Program. My junior year of high school, uh, represented California, got to go to Mobile, alabama, which was really fun actually. And then I also did one cultural one, which was the Miss Los Angeles Chinatown pageant, which brought me internationally to Hong Kong and all over China. But for MAO I took a 10-year hiatus.
Speaker 1:Throughout your pageant journey and then like getting to miss California. Forgive me, how many times did you compete for miss California before you won? Just the one time, Okay, Um, what would you say was like the biggest? We talk about mindset quite a bit. What was maybe the biggest mindset hurdle that you yourself had to work on on your journey to becoming miss California and then becoming a finalist at Miss America?
Speaker 3:During those 10 years I always felt like I wasn't ready to be a Miss.
Speaker 3:I think I had a unique challenge of going from a teen at 14 years old to a 21 year old One.
Speaker 3:I never felt like I was mature enough, where I had enough life experience or had, I guess, the right to be among the mis-candidates. So that was the mentality I had going in. But what I realized in signing up for my first local as a Miss for Miss San Francisco is it really is now or never. And there is a lot of peace in knowing that the opportunity that's meant for you will never pass you by. And so I realized you know what. This is the only time in my life where I will have a relatively lack of responsibility, but I have the ability to put my best foot forward and my 100% effort into this if I do want to represent San Francisco at state. So it went from a I don't feel ready to a it's now or never, I think very kind of like cliche big ideas, like life doesn't really wait for you. You just have to take a proactive approach to it. So very glad that I hail married into the application process and then the rest is history.
Speaker 1:What was the experience like preparing for Miss America then?
Speaker 3:Overwhelming, I will say. It was the year where they changed a lot of the format for the application, so your resume didn't have to be, you know, the typical corporate one. It could be a creative one. You had your personal statement, and then they also had the supplemental scholarships, for example.
Speaker 3:Like women in business, I think that was a time I probably struggled the most with self-confidence, simply because a lot of the times I felt myself asking like what are they looking for and how do I shape myself into something that they're looking for? I talked with so many people and, at the end of the day, what I concluded is if they're looking for you, they won't miss you, but if you're not what they're looking for, there's nothing you can do about it, because your life experiences have shaped you to exactly who you are that day. So I think I honestly really struggled with that. But the positive out of that is that you realize, you know, realize the best thing you can do is put your best foot forward on the table, and all you can say is that you've tried.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean there's some control that you have over developing your skills right, like your understanding of how business works and fundraising and all these things like your paperwork, your style, fitness, all these things like you have some control over that you can continue working on and continue improving. But when it comes to just who you are, that's just constant right. We're always evolving as a human being because of, like what you said earlier, like your life experiences and and everything like that. But when you get into competition, all you really can do is make sure that your skills are on point. You've got your messaging down, Like you've done all these other things to check the boxes, and then you just show up and show out just as you are because there's nothing else you can do.
Speaker 3:Yeah, like practicing those that hundredth time right before you step on stage is not going to make an incremental difference in how you display yourself. And actually when you said that, it reminded me of one of my favorite quotes. It's I don't know if you guys have heard the serenity prayer. Yes, yeah, yes, but I guess for the audience who doesn't know, it's God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. When I heard that for the first time, I was like, oh, that called me out a little bit too, too abruptly, um, but I think it's so true. It's like what you can control is you know the times that you practice, how you commit, how you display yourself, but what you can't control is if someone likes you or not, or wants to choose you or not. That's completely out of your control, but you just have to have peace with that.
Speaker 1:And at the end of the day too, when it comes to a pageant competition, the complexities of how the judging takes place and how it all kind of falls together as they're, you know, calculating all of the scores together and then if there's a final ballot, like it's just such a crapshoot. So, yeah, like that, that, what I love about the serenity prayer the piece that is my favorite is the wisdom to know the difference. What I love about the serenity prayer the piece that is my favorite is the wisdom to know the difference. And that takes a lot of understanding of who you are, your own intuition, and like really taking a step back and doing that work to analyze what am I thinking, how am I thinking about it, how is it affecting me and how can I choose to look at this differently.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and it's definitely a lifelong pursuit of finding that wisdom yeah.
Speaker 2:I always found it helpful to like when you go into a competition, especially at the caliber of Miss America, you really start to recognize that any it could be, anyone, we it's difficult because I mean even girls locally would ask me as Miss Wisconsin, like I just I feel like I'm competing against lawyers and doctors and why would they ever want me?
Speaker 2:And I was like well, I'm Miss Wisconsin and I'm not a lawyer or a doctor Like why would they want me? And I, and I think one of the best things that you can do too, is respect your competitors and on any given day like it's so cliche, like different panel, different day I always believe that it happens the way that it quote unquote should like you get that title holder that you need for that year, and it ultimately is always a beautiful thing. But at the end of the day, like looking around, especially going to Miss America, it's like okay, there's 50 Miss Americas, you know, like you, just you. And respecting your competitors too makes life easier in that way of knowing that anybody could kind of be plopped into this role and probably do a great job and yeah. So I just thought it's like, yeah, you, you are who you are and that's it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think the struggle that a lot of girls that I've also talked with is that you've invested so much time and effort and part of yourself that if you don't get that title it feels like kind of like a beating down, like life is saying like Ooh, good, try, but not good enough. But one of the best pieces of advice I got from a former Miss California is you know you're one among 50 girls that are going to Miss America. That means you have less than a 2% chance of actually winning that title. If you fixate on if I get that crown, it's like crown or bust. You're missing out on 98% of that experience which I thought was so impactful, because think about all the friends you could be making, think about the opportunities that you could be getting if you didn't tie up another year of your life as Miss America. It is definitely a great experience, but there is that 98% you might want to look at before you fixate all that 2%.
Speaker 1:Finding the joy in the journey and the joy and everything that you're experiencing right in front of you, rather than just fixating on the outcome that you think is is the end all for sure.
Speaker 1:So, before we hit record today, we were also like when we were talking about our intentions and we had asked you, like what is it that you'd like to be able to talk about today? And we talked quite a bit about like being a champion of courage and that, like I know, like Lila's going through the shift of having just given up her title, but we all go through phases and periods in our life of change and it kind of sounds like you're maybe experiencing a little bit about that. I was wondering if maybe you'd be willing to share where you're at and what's next for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So for me, I'm about to be 25. So I'm hitting that quintessential quarter life crisis. Reevaluate everything that you're doing. And so for me, that's kind of like the season of change that's driving a lot of what I'm kind of reevaluating Is it. You know what's the environment that I'm putting myself in? Who are the people that I'm surrounding myself with? Are the things that I'm doing actually making me happy or am I just doing it for the sake of doing it?
Speaker 3:So I've kind of fueled a lot of that kind of just like soul searching into, like very definitively, I'm trying to study for the GMAT because I do want to go to grad school. I think for me it's not really just you know the title of going to grad school, but it's about changing your environment and being in an environment where, very frankly, I feel like the dumbest person in the room. I don't know how I got into that room, but I feel inspired to be in that room. That's the kind of environment that I want to be in. I love being in San Francisco and I feel like I've really gotten so many opportunities that I will be grateful for my entire lifetime here, but I feel like I've gotten to a point where I'm getting too comfortable being in San Francisco. So that's kind of the catalyst reason and kind of plan of action for change.
Speaker 1:It sounds like you really thrive in that growth mindset space. Like you said earlier and I wrote it down like fears aren't indicative of your weaknesses and it's like you know that. You know you're not not weak. But just because you might have a little bit of fear about the unknown, it doesn't mean that you're not going to go forth and like do it anyway. And it's so funny that you're talking about this too, of like putting yourself in spaces where you know you're not the smartest person there and how like exciting that is for you because of how much growth potential you have. Like that's growth mindset of, like I have so much potential potential and that's exciting, that's fun, and because we literally just had a whole episode about imposter syndrome and kind of talking about how it's not really an actual thing. It's really just that anxiety and fear of being in a space that you think you don't belong, but you are actively putting yourself in spaces where you're going to grow into it and I love that.
Speaker 3:I will say like, when you put it that way, it makes me sound very like Hakuna Matata. Nothing phases me, but, trust me, I have had my moments where I'm like am I even doing the right thing? Why am I doing this Like? I think anxiety is a good thing because it's it's a self-protection mechanism. That's why we overthink and we think of worst case scenarios. Um, but advice I've gotten from friends is don't let those outweigh the potentially very good things that could come out of it, because in a scenario where you have a hundred different possibilities, yes, 99 of them might be really bad or suboptimal, but there's that 1% chance that could actually turn out really amazing. And if you prevent yourself from even taking that chance, you'll never even have the opportunity to see if it could go well. Worse, worse, you fall on your butt, you get back up and you just start where you started. So that is definitely something I'm learning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I appreciate that. Now, just because you have a growth mindset doesn't mean that you're comfortable with it. It's uncomfy, but it's very uncomfortable, yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel like we could talk forever. But I wanted to ask you, I guess, rounding out a little bit Rae, if there's anything, rae, that you can think of. But I just what is? This is kind of like a very broad question, but like what is a piece of advice or what is kind of a takeaway that you would want listeners? Um, as we kind of wrap up the conversation, what do you want to leave us with?
Speaker 1:That's a hefty one I know right I feel bad asking you. You've left a lot. I have to say, like, like all these, I have so many like notes and like quotes that I put down from our conversation today that I'm like there's so many gems in all of this and I love it. So, yeah, this it's. You've already shared a lot, but yeah, if there's anything else, I would love to hear it too.
Speaker 3:I guess I'll show you like one last quote, but one that I heard.
Speaker 3:I will say TikTok is fantastic for giving you those like deep life conversation topic starters, but one that I heard was being able to make your own decisions is a superpower, because most people will let other people decide their lives for them, and so, you know, we've talked a lot about like growth, mindset, or putting yourself in challenging situations or not letting yourself get overwhelmed by overthinking, taking that leap of faith.
Speaker 3:I think that kind of all gets wrapped up into that statement of making your own decisions and being kind of like the curator of your own life. And so, for anyone listening, I just hope that in your own personal season of change and when you're getting a lot of advice, take a step back and ask yourself what actually makes me happy, what does it mean to me to feel fulfilled or successful, and create a plan of action based off that, because I think a lot of people will give you advice from the goodness of their heart, but that is their own personal lived experience. That's not them living your life, nor would you want someone else to live your life. I think that's what makes us all uniquely, so special and so beautiful is that you have your own story to tell and your own story to carve. So yeah, be the captain of your own fate. As they say in Shop Things Redemption.
Speaker 1:I love it. I love it. Yeah, you definitely are a champion of courage, and just because you have courage doesn't mean you don't have fear, and I think people need to remember that too. So that was my takeaway from this conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you get the decision to. You get the decision to pick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think one thing to add to that is I forget what movie it comes from, but it says when you ask God for courage, does he give you courage or the opportunities to be courageous. If you ask God for patience, does he give you patience or chances to prove that you are a patient person, and I think that was something that reminded me. It's like yeah, there's a lot of times you might get angry at the world for like throwing every hurdle and things are falling apart, but maybe it's an opportunity for you to practice resilience of courage, of kindness, compassion, patience all of the qualities that you admire in your superheroes. So I think that's another, I guess, little bonus takeaway takeaway yes, I love it.
Speaker 1:I think that was Morgan Freeman. Yes, oh, I don't know what movie it was either, but I'm pretty sure it was Morgan Freeman. I just remember seeing that clip because somebody had posted it once.
Speaker 2:Yeah, beautiful, I'm like vigorously writing that down, it's a good one Amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, what are your plans for the weekend, Catherine, before we let you go?
Speaker 3:Oh well, I'm hanging out with some of my best pageant gal friends tonight for a little just chill birthday celebration and then a few other fun birthday dinners and then going to Swan Lake with my family. So I'm very excited about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that sounds wonderful. Oh my gosh, enjoy I wish. I was in San Francisco. We took a trip to San Francisco a couple of years ago and like just fell in love. And then we, of course, like drove North up the coast and amazing so that's red trip.
Speaker 3:Well, anytime you're in SF, let me know. I would love to our guide.
Speaker 1:So yes, I would love that. Thank you, oh my gosh. Thank you so much for being part of this episode today. We appreciate you. Yeah, absolutely. Good luck with everything you've got coming up, and I know it feels like a quarter life crisis, but I'm 34. I've been there and, like once you kind of get through those like upper twenties and you start reaching 30, things start to feel a lot more steady and stable. I can speak from experience.
Speaker 3:I will say that the back pain is setting in and I'm like Thank you so much, catherine, we appreciate it.
Speaker 1:All right, you guys. Thank you for tuning in and listening. If you have any other suggestions on other great guests that we can bring on board, please give us a shout out. We would love to hear who you want to hear from. So y'all take care, we'll talk to you next time. Bye.
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