#40 Mastering the Interview: What NOT to Do

Interview can feel like the most nerve-wracking part of competition, but are you making it harder than it needs to be? In this episode, I'm breaking down the biggest don'ts of pageant interview, including outdated strategies that actually increase your nerves and make it harder to connect with judges.

From trying to control the conversation to over-rehearsing responses, I'll explain why these habits don't serve you and what to do instead. Plus, I'm sharing a personal story about a time I was convinced a judge disliked me… only to find out he gave me a perfect score.

If you've ever left an interview thinking, I could have said that better, then you won't want to miss this. And if you're ready to take your interview skills to the next level, sign up for my free March Masterclass on Interview Skills. Link below!

Chapters

• 0:57 Welcome Back and Spring Reflections
• 1:47 Introduction to Interview Skills
• 3:41 Why Controlling the Interview Backfires
• 10:15 Don't Spin Everything Into Your Platform
• 14:16 Ignore Judges' Reactions
• 18:24 Avoid Fitting a Mold
• 22:33 Phrases to Stop Using
• 24:47 March Masterclass Preview
• 28:48 Closing Thoughts and Invitation

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:29

Hello, welcome back to Sash and Soul. Happy to have you back this week and happy spring. You guys, it's officially spring. Ugh, I could not be any more happy about that. I am just not a winter person. I live in the Midwest so it's ugh like I need to move south. But yesterday was an interesting weather day here in Wisconsin, because it rained. Most of the day, was like super gloomy, and then it started thunderstorming and then hailing and then later turned into snow. So it was just a very like I was laughing about. It, just felt like winter was fighting to stay alive while spring was fighting to come in. So it was just it was a crazy day, but today it is sunny out. It's a little chilly though, but at least I'm looking at blue skies again.

Speaker 1: 1:23

I feel like I have been saying that like every week now for a few weeks, which isn't a bad thing, because it has been kind of a rough week for me. Like I thought I was going to be in a great mood this week. Just last week was kind of a downer, and then this week I'm like okay, I'm back into it, like going to get back into the swing of things, and then I just couldn't. It was just it was rough. So I really had to pull out all the self care tools and practice them, even though they weren't making me feel better, just to keep myself moving and getting through the week. So sometimes that's what you got to do. But anyway, let's dive in.

Speaker 1: 1:59

Today I want to talk about interview. Interview is always a hot topic. It's always a fun thing to talk about. Interview was my favorite phase of competition once I really got the hang of it, when I first started competing when I was 17,. Interview was the scariest thing in the world though not as scary as the onstage question, I will say that. But once I gained my voice and knew myself better and understood my messaging more and gained that level of confidence for interview, interview became my favorite thing. And then when I worked with a coach that really opened my eyes to different skills to practice and to use in interview, it really just made the experience of interview that much more fun. And that's what I'm going to be talking about in the March Masterclass coming up on Tuesday, the 25th, with. So I'll have a link in this episode description for you to go ahead and sign up for the March Masterclass on Interview Skills.

Speaker 1: 2:57

That is where I'm going to dive into what to do in interview, but today, to prepare for that Masterclass on Tuesday, I wanted to talk about what not to do in interview, so let's talk about why this is important. I think oftentimes we know that there are things that we're afraid of doing an interview and so we try to overcorrect and we're kind of told like an old school way of talking about interview is to try to control the interview, to make sure that you are spinning every question back into, like your service initiative or your platform or you know, really showing up in a certain way, in a certain presence that is emblematic of the title holder. And while some of those things are helpful tools to use, they can be a little misguided, especially if they're overused or used inappropriately. So I want to talk about the things that I specifically coach my clients not to do in interview, and then on Tuesday we're going to dive into what to do instead and how to practice interview in a way that's actually helpful for you, because something to keep in mind, as well as your practicing interview and doing mock panels, is that when you have a mock panel, the mock judges are going to be hyper-analyzing your performance, because that's what they're there for is to help you practice and to help you improve. So they're going to be hyper-analyzing, they're going to be looking for the things to help you improve on, giving you constructive criticism and feedback and helping you kind of adjust your approach and interview, and that's important and it's valuable.

Speaker 1: 4:36

In many ways, however, it's when we start thinking about the actual interview, as if the judges are looking at you as mock judges are. What I mean by that is when you walk into an actual interview, the judges have a very different mentality than a mock panel of judges has, because they are looking for the person that's going to represent that title, that organization, to the best of their ability. So they're looking for connection. They're looking for the depth of what you bring to the table, for your preparedness, for your confidence level. So they're looking more at pan out on the big picture of who you are. They really want to get to know you and get to know what it is that you bring to the table. Because they have a job to do. They have to pick the winner of that competition to represent the organization doing well on a very nitpicky level. It's just not how it goes in an interview.

Speaker 1: 5:33

So when we're preparing for interview, we have to prepare for what an actual interview is like, not prepare for a mock interview, if that makes sense. And I think when I started to understand that, it completely shifted my perspective on how to approach interview for myself back when I was competing, and how to approach mocks and really asking for what I need to get out of that mock interview so that I could be a little more proactive in my own prep. And it helps shift my perspective as a coach as well, and so how I coach interview and how I do mocks with my clients is very different than what I think a lot of people tend to do. None of it wrong. Like mock panels are very, very helpful, but that's why I really want to talk today about what not to fall into the pattern and the habit of doing so.

Speaker 1: 6:27

Number one thing to not do in interview and this is going to sound way off from what you've probably been told over and over again do not try to control the interview. This idea of like leading the judges or leading the interview is a little outdated, because when you are, if you're trying to approach the interview as if it's a conversation with three, five, seven friendly people that are volunteering their time and they are looking to find the right person to represent this title. I mean, think about what you're doing as a title holder the entire year. When you go into community events, when you're having conversations with people. You're having a genuine conversation. You are listening to them, you're responding, you're reacting. A genuine conversation. You are listening to them, you're responding. You're reacting very genuinely.

Speaker 1: 7:14

And so if you're in the interview and you are trying to control what the judges hear from you and lead them into asking you things you want to talk about, that's super disingenuine and it's not something that you do when you're out in the public as a title holder. So I want to help you get past this idea of needing to somehow control the interview and make sure that you say everything that you want the judges to hear you say. Here's why this is an important piece to understand. Getting out everything that you want the judges to hear from you in interview isn't helpful, because judges only remember 5% to 7% of the words that you say. So if you're trying to lead the judges into things, they're going to actually remember more of how that makes them feel and kind of the disingenuineness that that can be, or like the kind of like political like nature of that, like, if you think of politicians, that like kind of spin answers into what they want to talk about or dodge the question, like it just is kind of yucky, and so the judges are going to remember that more than they're going to remember what you're actually saying for the most part.

Speaker 1: 8:24

So if you wouldn't try to control a normal conversation, why would you try and control the interview? So, instead of being in control of the interview, be in control of yourself, of how you show up in that interview, of how you handle yourself, not the interview itself. Trying to control the conversation can actually make you more nervous because you're in your head trying to make sure that you say all the things that you want to say and answer the questions correctly and are getting strategic about what you say so that maybe they'll ask you a question based off of that topic, and it actually causes a lot more anxiety than calm. And so if you're feeling more of that calm and maybe makes you more nervous because you're afraid of not saying the right thing or that they're going to ask you something that you're not prepared for, they're going to feel that energy too. But if you go in in control of yourself, really calm, not expecting anything, but prepared for everything, you're going to have a better experience and, more importantly, the judges are going to have a better experience with you as well, which is going to influence your score, okay. So try and steer away from trying to control the interview and instead be more in control of your presence and what you are and how you are showing up in that room.

Speaker 1: 9:47

Next and I alluded to this earlier do not spin every answer into your platform or your service initiative. I think this is a really helpful tool when you are getting started in an interview and practicing interview, because you want to talk about the things you know about right and you want to showcase that you are prepared to do the job, and a big part of the job is your service initiative do the job, and a big part of the job is your service initiative. So I understand why this is often something that is coached for you when you're first getting started in practicing interview, but it's problematic because if the judges are asking you a direct question about something and you all of a sudden lead into your service initiative or you do this frequently it does come across again as kind of political, like polypolitical pageant girl and rehearsed, rather than genuine. So when I'm a judge, when I'm asking you questions, I genuinely want to know about you, and so if I'm asking you a question and all of a sudden you kind of spin it into something that you want to talk about, I don't really feel like you care enough to answer my question. And so what I'm saying is like respect the judges enough to answer their questions directly, because if they're asking you a question, they want to know the answer to that question. If they wanted to ask you about your platform, they'd ask you about your platform and keep in mind that you've got your essay down there and they've probably read a whole bunch about it and maybe they know that you are solid in your initiative and they want to know who you are as a human being, because your service initiative I've said before is like maybe 30% of the work that you're actually doing as a title holder. Depending on the title, I'm going to say that, like if you're in more of a volunteer system, it makes sense you would be doing a lot more with your initiative.

Speaker 1: 11:34

But oftentimes pageant organizations come with other responsibilities, and when I was Miss Wisconsin, for example, or when I was a local title holder, I was doing a lot of local community events and some of the time it's like taking the initiative to work on my own platform work as well, but more often you are doing those community events and being a goodwill ambassador for the community that you serve. So when you're answering questions, the judges want to know who you are, not just what you do. And I say this all the time you win with who you are, not with what you do. So we get wrapped up in. You know doing a whole bunch of stuff with our platform, with our community service initiative, and wanting to make sure that the judges see that you are really proactive and really, really highly involved. But do you ever experience where, like you are competing with someone, that you don't see them doing as much as you think that you're doing with your platform, but somehow they still win? And it's kind of frustrating because we have this idea that the more you do, the more valuable you are, the more worthy you are of that title, and that's just not it. The judges know that they need to find someone that genuinely connects with people, because that's what you're doing in the job. So you win with who you are, not with what you do. So when you are really just spinning it back into your service initiative, it really makes you seem pretty one-dimensional and that you're kind of lacking that depth of really knowing who you are and having more of the oh, being inspirational or having that heart and the passion for people and for things way beyond just your service initiative. You are so much more than just your service initiative. So make sure that you are answering questions directly so know when to weave in your initiative, naturally, and when you need to be focusing on yourself as a leader and as a human being.

Speaker 1: 13:41

Next, this is really hard because we are human beings and we react to people's nonverbals. But do not worry about the judge's reactions. There are going to be judges in that room that may be consistently non-reactive to every single contestant that they are interviewing and there may be judges that decide they're going to be the tough judge. And there will be judges that are super nice Maybe they're the novice judge and they're just smiling the whole time and really want to help you feel really comfortable. This can be really misleading if you are worrying about the judge's reactions, because the bottom line is you do not know what they are thinking.

Speaker 1: 14:26

I have done all of the above. I have been the jovial, happy judge, I have been the tough judge and I have been kind of the stoic, non-reactive judge. But in each circumstance I'm still judging internally the same way, asking the same questions, scoring still consistently with what I'm seeing and how you're showing up. So when you're worrying about how the judges are reacting, that's going to influence how you show up. It's going to make you more nervous and the more nervous that you get, the more filler words you're going to have, the more you're going to stumble over what you're saying, the more you're going to forget what you're saying, the more you're going to worry about what you're saying and all of those things are actually just going to lead to a lower score.

Speaker 1: 15:12

There is one particular experience that I have that I will never forget. I was at a national competition competing and I had a judge that was so hard on me and he just kept coming back at me, follow-up question after follow-up question on like a politically-based topic that we were talking about, something that was going on within the legislature in Wisconsin, and I kept answering directly and I, you know respectfully answered based off of how I felt about the circumstance, and I walked out of that interview thinking that that judge absolutely hated me, like truly didn't like me. He was so tough on me. Just, I thought he was tough on me in that like his expressions made it seem like that and the way that he just kept like kind of being the devil's advocate in the room on that topic. But at that particular competition, after everything was said and done, we had the chance to talk to the judges and now, mind you, I finished as a top five finalist and I tied for overall interview and I was floored because I did not think that my interview was good enough for an overall interview score. And I spoke with this judge and he outright said, oh, I absolutely loved you. And I was stunned and I literally said to him I thought you hated me. And he said, oh gosh, no, he said I gave you a perfect score. I thought you were incredible, you stood your ground, you were respectful about your answers, all these things and I was just. This was one of the most eyeopening experiences for me when it comes to letting go of what we think the judges are actually thinking.

Speaker 1: 16:54

Show up exactly who you are. Don't worry about how the judges are reacting to you. It could be an act. They could be nervous. You just never know what someone else is thinking or what they're feeling. You may have a judge in there that literally doesn't ask a question the entire time, so you have no idea where they stand. The bottom line is it doesn't matter, because you can't control it. The judges are going to put a score down based on what they think and what their experience was with you in that room, but their reaction doesn't dictate what their experience was. So try your best not to read into it. Walk out of that room celebrating the successes that you had in that interview, feel good about what you did, and then onward and upward. It doesn't make any sense to sit there and dwell on the things that you can't control. You got other things to worry about. Interview is done. You got to go get ready for onstage competition, so let it go. Move on onward and upward. So focus on your energy, the energy that you're bringing into the room, not their energy.

Speaker 1: 17:53

Next, do not try and fit a mold. This is so hard because when you want something so badly and when you're looking at representatives of the title that you so badly want to wear across your heart. It's easy to think that we need to show up a very specific way, talk a certain way, behave a certain way, but the bottom line is the judges are not looking for any specific type. They are looking for someone who owns exactly who they are, who shows up genuinely, authentically who they are. The woman that crowned me, miss Wisconsin, has a completely different personality than me. She is amazing, she is outgoing, she is like hyper, like who's outgoing real, like says what's on her mind is hilarious. And then there's me who, like I'm a little more reserved, I am outgoing to an extent, but not at that level, and I could easily think that the judges wouldn't pick me because I'm nothing like her and she's the outgoing title holder.

Speaker 1: 19:02

But that's so problematic because look at any sequence of new title holders, year after year after year, and how different they are. You cannot go into any competition thinking they're looking for the person that they just crowned a year ago, because that's just not the case, anything specific. So you can't be a specific thing that the judges are looking for because they're open. They are wide open to new ideas, to new people, to new personalities. It's a blank slate, so the best thing that you can do is go in as yourself.

Speaker 1: 19:39

The best title holders do not fit a certain template. There is no perfect recipe for being a title holder. The best title holder is going to shape the role around their own personalities, their own strengths, and they're going to build it off of their own platform, their mission, their purpose, their why. So try not to go at it from the standpoint of being what you think that they want, because that's going to make you blend in and not stand out as a potentially really incredible title holder. Don't try and fit the mold. Mold the title around who you are instead. That's what it means to show up fearlessly authentic, and if you're struggling with that, I would say the problem may be that you don't really have a clear idea of exactly who you are, or maybe you don't trust that who you are is perfectly good enough. So that is something that you got to work through, whether that is in therapy or with a mindset coach, to really help you uncover and remember who you are. Unearth all of the amazing things of who you are, so that you can show up in that light rather than kind of scrambling to figure out who that is and what that looks like or who that person should be. That's going to be crowned, because that's just not it. I can tell you from experience that being myself brought me more joy, better experiences in interview, less fear and anxiety and much better feedback from the judges and from people that I met as a title holder as well. So I know it kind of it's becoming cliche to just say like, be who you are, be authentic, be transparent. That's hard to do when you don't know who that is. So that's the work that you need to do in your preparation for interview is really uncover, remember who you are, know who you are, flaws and all and find the confidence to show up as that person.

Speaker 1: 21:55

Next, and I think final, don't do an interview is and this is kind of basic but don't say these phrases Thank you for that question. It's super overused, it's really unnatural. We don't say that in conversations or that's a great question, the judges do not need your validation. It kind of shows that you are taking time to think about it or that maybe you are unsure of the answer. And please, this is one of my pet peeves, actually, and it's a habit. I know it's a habit, but don't repeat the question. It kind of feels like you're stalling and also what it does is it's going to potentially lead you into forgetting what you were even talking about. I know it kind of seems like that's not possible because you're repeating the question. So how could you forget what the question was or what you're going to talk about? But when you can just dive right into your response and answer it head on, it's going to come across way more fluidly and less like you have to think about it and that you are like rehearsed or trying to say something perfectly.

Speaker 1: 23:02

So when you're practicing, practicing, practice just answering the question directly without repeating the question, that's something that I think we're taught to do in school too, when we're writing essays and stuff is like when you have an essay response or a written response on an exam, to kind of repeat the question in your first sentence, to like lead into what you're saying as if like if someone was reading that without the question prompt, then they know exactly what you're talking about. But the judge just asked you the question, so they reading that without the question prompt, then they know exactly what you're talking about. But the judge just asked you the question, so they don't need the question prompt in your answer. So don't repeat the question. So those three things again Don't thank the judges for the question.

Speaker 1: 23:37

That's not necessary and it's unnatural. Don't tell them that that's a great question because judges just don't need your validation. That's a great question because judges just don't need your validation. I think sometimes it's kind of like a genuine response of like, oh my gosh, like I've never thought of that before and like I get that. But again, answering head on is always the way to go. And then don't repeat the question because it just really just feels like you're stalling. It also takes up time from your interview when you already have a very short amount of time to express who you are in that interview. Don't take up time by repeating the question at the beginning of your answer.

Speaker 1: 24:12

All right, so to recap, all of these don'ts, don't try to control the interview. It's not something that you do in a conversation and you want to be natural in interview. So control, be in control of yourself, but don't try and control the interview, Otherwise it will make you more nervous. Do not spin every answer into your platform or your service initiative. Leading the interview in that way again is going to cause more nerves. It's not natural. It's not actually helping the judges see who you are, and you are so much more than just your platform. You win with who you are, not with what you do.

Speaker 1: 24:50

Don't worry about the judges' reactions, because you'll never know what they're actually thinking. Sometimes judges that are seasoned will put on that face because they want to be the tough judge and they want to see how you handle yourself. So be in control of yourself. Show up genuine and focus on your own energy, not their energy. Don't try and fit a mold, because the judges aren't looking for anything in particular. They want to see you as your authentic, beautiful, lovely self, the person that's going to show up every single day in the job wearing that crown.

Speaker 1: 25:20

And don't say those like redundant phrases at the beginning of your answers, thanking them for the question that's a great question or repeating the question. It's stalling. It's going to get you know you confused. It is unnecessary and it takes up time that you could be using to show the judges who you are. Even more so if you find yourself doing any of these habits, or even like over rehearsing or worrying about the judge's reactions, trying to force the conversation. It's definitely something that is taught, it's learned. It's something that we do as kind of a stress response, as a trying to like control a situation that we really don't have any control over. But you can unlearn them, you can shift into having a way more conversational, into having a way more conversational, real, raw, authentic interview if you have the right strategies.

Speaker 1: 26:10

So that is exactly why I want you to join the March Masterclass that I'm hosting on Interview Skills. I'm hosting it on Tuesday, march 25th, from 7 to 8 pm, central Time. Sign up, it's free. It's just going to be that hour of me going over all of the techniques, the structure of interviews, on how to have compelling answers that feel really natural and not rehearsed, how to control your nerves and stay composed under the pressure that you're in in that interview. I'm going to be teaching you all of these tools and skills that I teach my clients, that I used when I was competing, the skills and tools that led me to overall interview wins, to winning titles that that I always dreamt of. It's also like the things that I forgot to do at Miss America that led me to like having a terrible interview experience for myself, and I just don't want any of you to have any of those experiences. These skills and tools and techniques that I'll be talking about on Tuesday are life changing. I know because my clients have completely overhauled their interviews and had incredible experiences with these techniques, have won overall interviews and non-finalist interviews and won their titles.

Speaker 1: 27:27

So it's definitely a masterclass that you don't want to miss. So this is for you. If you want to elevate your interview, if you want to leave a lasting impression, if you want to walk out of interview feeling really good, feeling content, not even like amazing. You don't have to feel amazing, like best interview ever, just walking out feeling like I did what I came to do. I'm good with this and now it's time to move onward and upward. So if you've ever left interview instead thinking I could have said that better, then you definitely need to sign up for this class.

Speaker 1: 27:57

The link is going to be in the show notes. If you can't make it live, I am going to send the recording later, so definitely sign up. It's a good one. Of all of my monthly masterclasses, I would say this is probably the best one to sign up for at this stage of the game, especially if you are preparing for upcoming competitions this spring. All right, y'all, I hope you found this helpful. Message me, let me know if you did find this helpful, or if you have any questions related to any of these things that we want to try avoiding in interview, or if you have a different perspective. I'm definitely open to hearing other ideas and perspectives on approaches to interview and what's worked for you and what hasn't worked for you in the past as well. So reach out. I'd love to hear from you and with that, I will talk to you again next week. Take care of yourselves. Happy spring, bye.