#50 Crowned & Candid: Kiersten Khoury, Miss Massachusetts 2024

Kirsten Corey, Miss Massachusetts 2024, pulls back the curtain on her remarkable 20-year journey through the pageant world in this candid, eye-opening conversation. After competing since childhood and experiencing far more losses than wins, Kirsten's persistence finally culminated in achieving her lifelong dream of representing Massachusetts on the Miss America stage.

With refreshing authenticity, Kirsten dismantles the glossy facade often associated with pageantry, revealing the intense work that happens behind the scenes. "This job is so hard because you never leave it," she explains, describing how the crown becomes inseparable from your identity. From the business side of securing sponsorships to the mental load of constant public scrutiny, listeners gain unprecedented insight into what it truly means to wear a state crown.

Kirsten shares pivotal moments from her journey, including her decision to completely change her talent from tap dancing to a spoken word performance between her first and second attempts at Miss Massachusetts. This strategic shift, along with significantly increasing her preparation efforts, ultimately helped her secure the title. Her advice on preparation is crystal clear: "Don't fix what isn't broken, but be honest with yourself about what needs improvement."

Perhaps most compelling is Kirsten's evolution in how she defines success. Through her year of service, she's discovered that "success is not always a tangible thing. Sometimes it's just being happy and content." This powerful perspective shift represents the deeper personal transformation that has occurred alongside her public accomplishments.

As her reign approaches its conclusion, Kirsten looks toward continuing her passionate advocacy for dyslexia awareness as a board member with the International Dyslexia Association. Her story serves as both inspiration and reality check for those with similar ambitions. The crown may be beautiful, but it's the growth, relationships, and impact that create the true legacy of a title holder.

Chapters

• 0:56 Welcome to Miss Massachusetts 2024
• 3:34 20 Years in Pageantry
• 9:24 Winning Miss Massachusetts
• 17:58 Finding Your Authentic Talent
• 26:18 Behind the Scenes Business
• 34:30 Personal Challenges and Pressures
• 48:34 Redefining Success After Achievement
• 1:01:55 The Path Forward After Pageantry

Transcript

Raeanna Johnson: 0:28

Hello everyone, welcome back to Sash and Soul. We are back again with another episode in the Crowned and Candid series, and this time I am here with Miss Massachusetts 2024, kirsten Corey, so excited to dive into this conversation with her. She is a light, I can already tell. It's just she's been so gracious with me already this morning or afternoon, rather, because I'm like all over the place. If you've been listening, you know that my dad had a stroke about two and a half weeks ago and last night he was discharged from inpatient rehab way sooner than we had anticipated because of insurance issues, but I drove him home three hours back to my house, and so my husband and I are going to be hanging out with him here while we try and get him set up with some speech therapy and just get him back on his feet.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:17

So it's just kind of been a lot of me navigating this new normal and managing being a businesswoman, being a podcaster, being a caretaker, being a wife, being, you know, taking care of the house all the things which I know is it's just life, and I think that's that's one of my favorite things. To be able to be really open and authentic about with you guys is like we always have a lot of stuff going on, and what matters is making sure that we're prioritizing what means the most to us and showing up authentically, no matter what, and that is exactly what Kirsten is bringing to the table today in this conversation. In Sash and Soul is just truly like. She had mentioned being a part of the pageant world for 20 years, and this is her goal is to show up just as herself and be real and raw, and that's what you're going to get from her today.

Raeanna Johnson: 2:09

And just to see which I was explaining to Kirsten and I have been talking about in this series. That's what these conversations are about is to see the reality behind the crown, the reality behind the title, the highs, the lows, the everything in between, so that you, as listeners, can see yourself in that position too, because as human beings, we are complex, we have human experiences, things happen, circumstances change and we navigate to the best of our abilities, and we don't always do it perfectly, and I think it's important to see yourself in someone else in the position that you are striving to be in. So, with that, welcome Kirsten. Thank you for joining me.

Kiersten Khoury: 2:52

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to sit down and talk with you today.

Raeanna Johnson: 2:58

Thank you, let's dive in. Tell us a little bit more about yourself. I'm super curious to hear about your journey and just who you are outside of being Miss Massachusetts as well. That's important too.

Kiersten Khoury: 3:08

Yes, so I am a born and raised from Massachusetts. It's always been my home. I did, however, take a brief stint in North Carolina for four years. I went to High Point University in North Carolina, where I majored in entrepreneurship and minored in sales, and was a graduate with the class of 2023. So that was the only time I ever left my home of Massachusetts. But I am back now.

Kiersten Khoury: 3:32

I live in Boston with my best friend since childhood and we live in an apartment right on the water, which is just so beautiful and, after being landlocked, what it felt like, landlocked in the middle of North Carolina for four years, the water is a beautiful sight and you know, in terms of the pageant world and my journey with that, I have been a competitor for almost 20 years now, and so I have been somebody who has aspired to walk the Miss America stage for many, many, many years.

Kiersten Khoury: 4:01

I've held lots of pageant titles. They have all been meaningful in their own special way, and the Miss America dream was always the ultimate goal, and so achieving that this year was a huge milestone for me, but not just for me, but for my family as well. I have a very close-knit family here in Massachusetts, as well as all over the country. So many of them came out to support me during Miss America. So that was really meaningful to see that it really does take a village and that you can't do this by yourself. So relying on those people has meant everything to me. And outside of that I, like you, own my own business. So I do coaching, I do pageant coaching, I do interview, public speaking, resume building all of these things that I feel are sometimes missing and hard to find that I want to offer to other people. So that's kind of what I do on the back end when I'm not wearing the crown and sash, and yeah, that's just a little bit about me.

Raeanna Johnson: 5:00

I love that and I think you know talking about it takes a village. Some of my messaging lately, too, has been like it takes a village to support us in everything that we're doing. But let's not negate how much our village is gaining from this experience too, and that it's not really just about us, that they each have a piece of our success too and they own that and they feel all these big feelings about it Like they're. They're part of this journey because it's exciting for them too, they love us, they support us, but also like they get to be a part of something special too because of what we are doing by putting ourselves out there and being on this stage and going after these dreams. So I think that's a big part of it.

Kiersten Khoury: 5:42

It totally is, and you know everybody always says you're a title holder, so you represent your home state, but you also represent your family and your friends and all of those people who have supported you throughout those years. I very much feel a weight, in a good way, that I am representative of all of these people who have invested in me and I'm just the vessel who is giving their message and sharing what's important to them, not only just in the state of Massachusetts, but representative of different cultures and experiences. My dad is an immigrant from Lebanon and the support I've received from that community people living in Lebanon wanting to support me because I am a representation of a Lebanese American is huge. I have so much family in New York who have rallied around me and supported me. So you're so right You're just the vessel and the picture that people are looking at, but you are representative of so many people and so many different things being on that stage.

Raeanna Johnson: 6:40

Yeah, and I love how you said. It's a weight. In a good way, it's like a privilege. It's a privilege to have that many people cheering us on and loving on us and supporting us and taking part in our journey as part of their own journey too. It's a weight, and I think that it's a tricky balance, though, too, if not to take on all of that pressure. Obviously, that's a big struggle that I think all of us have experienced at some point, if not regularly.

Kiersten Khoury: 7:12

In anything you do. I mean, if your parents or family helped support you get a college degree, you feel a weight to make them proud and make that investment worthwhile. If somebody recommended you for a job, you feel that weight to perform well in that job. It doesn't matter what you're doing. You know the people in your life who love and support you, want to see you succeed. So there's always that little tiny bit of I want to make them proud, and I definitely did feel that. But what was so beautiful is knowing that their pride came from me achieving the dream of being there. It didn't matter what happened when I got there, you know, it wasn't about that, and so I was always very fortunate to know that they were just proud of me for being me and putting my heart and soul out there, and that's all they could ask.

Raeanna Johnson: 7:59

Yeah, because that's the downfall, right Like it's important that we have that accountability right from other people in our lives. But what we have to practice not doing is letting that kind of overpower our sense of self or put like so much pressure on ourselves that we're like struggling to even enjoy the process. Because if people love you and support you and they truly love you for all the right reasons they don't want you to be miserable while you're doing it. They want you to be having a good time and you're going to perform better. You're going to achieve more when you are focusing on the things that you care about genuinely and putting your best intentions out there.

Kiersten Khoury: 8:41

A hundred percent.

Raeanna Johnson: 8:42

Yeah, okay, so let's let's talk about when you achieve this goal of your ticket to Miss America that you had been dreaming of for so long. Take me back to crowning night last year at Miss Massachusetts, and what was that for you, what was going through your head, what was the experience like? Give us the rundown.

Kiersten Khoury: 9:00

So I had competed in Miss Massachusetts the year prior and, as I mentioned, I've done this for a long time, but I always remind people that I have walked away without the crown a whole lot more times than I walked away with it. So I have been competing for 20 years. I've held, I think, eight titles, so I've lost a lot more than I've won. And so the year prior at Miss Massachusetts, I was in the top 10, which was a huge accomplishment for me personally. That was the goal was getting into the top 10. And I was proud of myself for that goal. You know, achieving that and the icing on the cake in that experience was that I won the interview award, and that was a huge moment for me. I had always really wanted to do well in that category and I felt like it was something I was comfortable in. I really enjoyed interview. However, I'd never been recognized in that kind of a way. So winning the interview award was a huge personal success for me and, honestly, at that moment it felt just as good as probably winning the title. It was a personal feat and I was proud of myself for accomplishing it.

Kiersten Khoury: 10:07

But the next year when I came back, I had made the top five and they start. They start ticking down and it is I don't even know what to compare it to. There's that trend going around on TikTok and it's like my body doesn't know the difference between being attacked by a bear in the woods and like doing whatever. That's kind of how I felt. I was full body shakes, like couldn't control myself, so nervous, and then they called my name and you kind of just black out, I think, like I don't really remember. I had to watch back the video a few times to really remember what happened. But one of the judges said that she had never seen somebody shake like that in their entire life. She thought they were going to have to call 911.

Raeanna Johnson: 10:46

Like I was going to.

Kiersten Khoury: 10:47

So I guess I was shaking pretty bad. Yeah, I won. And then they literally whisk you away and they pretty much like put me in a room and made me wait until all of my family, all the judges, all the former Miss Massachusetts had gone upstairs in our theater and lined the hallways, which I didn't know at the time. So I was just standing in this like corridor waiting to figure out what was going on and my executive director, buffy, is standing with me and she's like we just have to wait a few minutes. And I'm like, okay, like for what? I'm so confused. Finally they open the doors and everybody is like lining the hallways, screaming, cheering. It was the most.

Kiersten Khoury: 11:29

It might have been more overwhelming than getting crowned, because I was just in total shock and I guess one of the people had said to my family don't run and hug her, you're going to make her cry again and we have photos. We just fixed her makeup. So they were instructed not to touch me. Well, the first thing I did was run and grab my mom, of course, like duh, like. So I ran and I grabbed her and she hugged me and she was like stop hugging me, you have to go. And I was like, okay, and then I got grabbed and we did photos and then we do a big party after at a local restaurant nearby and that's when I got to hang out with my family and thank the judges and meet all of our board, and you know, so it was just, it was an overwhelming few hours, but you know, it was just incredible. The whole time you kind of just feel like do I deserve this? Did they pick the right girl? Was it supposed to be me, or are we sure You're just in like a daze?

Raeanna Johnson: 12:25

Yeah right. So I'm curious. So often we hear like I never imagined this would happen for me, like I never, never dreamed of this, like I hear that and honestly I want to say that's BS, because I think we all have like the dream. I'm sorry, I'm going to be real. I'm going to just call that out because like that's a beautiful, humble sentiment to say but if you are competing for this and you want it, you've allowed yourself to dream it a little bit, so you've allowed yourself to picture it. Whether or not you wholeheartedly believe it could happen, I mean, I guess that's a different story. But did you like? What was that like for you as you were preparing? Obviously you wanted it right A hundred percent.

Kiersten Khoury: 13:08

I'm not somebody who's shy about going after what they want, and I think the difference and you know and I take a religious standpoint on this as well where I believe God has a plan for all of us and that is what it is and we may not know in the moment why something happens the way it does or what his timing is, but there is a reason, something happens. So I do fully and wholeheartedly believe that. However, there is a really large piece of did you work for it? And so I am somebody who is not shy about going after what they want, and I'll tell you this story. So the first pageant title I ever won was National American Miss Massachusetts Princess in 2008. And I won it after two tries.

Kiersten Khoury: 13:51

I had never done a pageant prior to that. Then I went back as a junior preteen and I competed until I was a teen, and I never won again. And it wasn't that I wasn't working hard for it, it just wasn't meant to be, and I eventually had to come to the conclusion that this was no longer my place to be and I needed to move on to something else. And I did. I found other pageants, I won other titles, I even won a national pageant. So, like other things were meant to be for me, it wasn't that, but it was something else. But with Miss Massachusetts, I absolutely worked for it and dreamed of it and pictured it and knew that I was capable of doing it. However, the difference between the first year and the second year was the level of work I put in and I'm okay with admitting the fact that the first year I went into it I was not giving it my 100% at all. I maybe gave it 80. In my defense. I was also extremely sick the week of Miss Massachusetts 103 degree fever, infected wisdom teeth. My first year year had to get them out in emergency surgery, like the day after the pageant, that. But I was definitely not at a hundred percent. And so the second year that I went in I prepared like I was preparing for Miss America and I say that to everybody now like I prepped for that pageant, like I was going to Miss America.

Kiersten Khoury: 15:11

And when I did get to go to Miss America the preparation kind of stayed the same. I was giving it my all, I was giving it 100% and I knew that if I did that it would happen for me. I didn't know when, but I knew it would, and so it was just a matter of you know when, not if so, yeah, I think some things are meant for us. I think other things will never be meant for us and we have to accept that. Um, and that's a really, really hard pill to swallow, trust me. Yeah, there's a lot of grief that goes with that, or better, meant for them, and it just it wasn't this thing, but that is a really, really tough thing to come to. And for other young women, it is a matter of how much hard work you put in, and if you're being real and honest with yourself, you might not be trying your hardest, and that was something I did, actually, right before competing in my first Miss Massachusetts competition.

Raeanna Johnson: 16:24

Okay, I was going to ask that because you won interview your first time at Miss Massachusetts.

Kiersten Khoury: 16:28

I did, I did.

Raeanna Johnson: 16:29

So like don't fix what's not broken, Right, so okay.

Kiersten Khoury: 16:33

Absolutely, and I'm a, I'm big on that one. Like do not fix what's not broke, because I think some girls get in their own head about that. Like, if you won the gown award, you don't need to spend $5,000 on a new dress. It works, keep it, you know? Or?

Raeanna Johnson: 16:48

if your talent is working, you don't need to work your butt off and spend a bunch of money on a brand new talent. Keep it me.

Kiersten Khoury: 17:14

I knew I did well in interview. I knew they liked me in interview. I wasn't going to change that. I continued to prepare. But I didn't alter or tweak or change too too much about what I did, and that's a whole other conversation on. You know, don't be practiced, be prepared.

Raeanna Johnson: 17:28

But yeah, and we could be best friends.

Kiersten Khoury: 17:30

I like yeah, don't don't sound rehearsed, just be prepared. Um. So, yes, like the interview was working for me, so I didn't spend too much time on that. However, I needed to focus on my physical health. I needed to focus on, you know, not only because I got sick. Clearly, I was not doing well the first time, um, so I wanted to make sure that I was doing everything I can leading up to be physically, mentally, emotionally prepared for this competition, and so I spent a lot of time in the gym. I spent a lot of time on my wellness and on my nutrition, making sure that I was doing something that was sustainable for me and that was going to give me the energy I needed to make it through the week. And I also did change my talent completely.

Kiersten Khoury: 18:13

I was tap dancing the first year and I was a tap dancer my entire life. However, I took a four-year break in college, and getting back into that a few months before the competition was not a good idea for me. It just wasn't. It took me out during the competition, not only because I was ill, but also just because I didn't have the stamina I used to have for that, and it just it wasn't well suited. It didn't look good. It didn't feel right. It wasn't it. So I decided to change talents and do a Her Story and I won with that and it was so much more meaningful, so much more impactful and so much better suited for me. So those were like the areas I focused on. I focused on the fitness competition. I focused on the talent competition. I did change my gown. However, it was probably a mistake, because the judges told me that I won in spite of my gown Oof. They quite literally said you're lucky, you can talk, because that gown was not doing you any favors. So we changed that for Miss.

Raeanna Johnson: 19:13

America. That's interesting because I won overall interview when I won Miss Wisconsin, but none of my judges liked my dress.

Kiersten Khoury: 19:20

Really See, and everybody thinks it's the amount of money you spend and the fancy outfit you have. It's not. It is the girl inside of it. I promise you.

Raeanna Johnson: 19:29

A hundred percent, a hundred percent, and I love that. You, you, you seemed very thoughtful and intentional about the decisions that you made in your preparation. I think that's important, especially because there could have been a lot of people telling you no, no, no, a tap dance would be way better than a her story. It's easier to score this, that and the other thing, it's more entertaining. Whatever, blah, blah, blah. A lot of people just don't like the her story and get it personal preference. But what I really appreciate about your decision is that I think I don't want to put words in your mouth, but, like you knew that it would cause more mindset issues for you and more stress to try and do the tap dance thing than to just choose something else that you could do really well.

Kiersten Khoury: 20:09

And that's tough for people. Not only is there a negative connotation about the Her Story which, after doing both after preparing a traditional talent and preparing a non-traditional talent I would argue both have the same amount of work, both are just as difficult. You know, as I said, I was a competitive dancer my entire life. I stopped in college, took a break. Trying to get back into that was not easy.

Kiersten Khoury: 20:36

But writing an emotional piece to deliver in front of thousands of people, whether it's spoken word, whether it's you know, poem, whatever you want to make, it is not easy either. And the nuances and the significant changes that you can make in the delivery is also not easy. It's kind of like looking at an actor and saying your job is easy. It's not. There is emotional conviction, there are hand placements, there is walking patterns, there are props, there are timing. Everything about it is pinpointed to a point where you want to have the most emotional impact you can have in a minute and a half, and that's the other hard part is that is not a lot of time to convey a personal story. So it's not easy. I would argue that it is a talent and that you really do have to practice and prepare it to do it well.

Raeanna Johnson: 21:30

I agree and I think everything you just said has to be so validating for so many women listening to this right now. And yeah, please DM us and let us know that that hit you, because I think a lot of women need to hear that that validation of like no, this is a lot of work. You and I both know this. Right, I've never done a Her Um. I did do some monologue stuff in high school, but like there's so, like you said, the nuances and being able to read the audience and like practicing it and having to listen to whole mess of feedback because you like you need other people to tell you what's working and what's not, and what's hitting and what's not, and then not sounding overly rehearsed and memorized Like it's like a mess. Yeah, it's hard, all right. So we're reaching the end of your year now, so look back at the crowding moment. But who were you then versus who you are now? How much have you changed?

Kiersten Khoury: 22:25

I keep saying this was the most transformative year of my life and it's not over yet. But you know, we are nearing think five weeks left and so much of me has changed, so much of what I wanted out of life. I don't know that I do anymore. And it's so interesting because you would never think that something like this could completely change your mindset on your career, on your ambition, on your goals. But it does, at least it did for me.

Kiersten Khoury: 22:57

I was working in corporate America when I started this position and doing coaching as a side hustle on the you know, just very small on the side. And then I had a year of opportunity to travel and meet new people and speak at different functions and to hear how much that means to people, especially when speaking about my experiences with dyslexia. How many little girls and boys I've touched by talking about my experience. How many parents have come to me and appreciated what I've done, how many businesses who find it valuable, schools. It's overwhelming in the best way possible, because I never realized that I had a voice and a story that could make an impact like that. I think us young women who do compete in pageants hope that that's the case, but until you have people who are genuinely coming to you and saying that you don't realize the skills that you possess. You know we always talk about oh, we learn how to public speak and we learn how to give a good interview, but you don't really realize what kind of impact that's having on people until they tell you that's having on people, until they tell you.

Kiersten Khoury: 24:16

And so for me, now I have realized that this advocacy I'm doing for dyslexia is not something that's going to stop the year, the time I give up my title, like it's not just for one year, it is for life. I have taken steps to join boards and become involved in my community with it and it's not going to just end. And also, looking at what I want in a career and accomplishments in life, I value now the opportunity to travel, the opportunity to speak to new people and meet new people, the opportunity to have autonomy over the work that I do and realize that everything that I do is part of my brand, has my name on it and that's important to recognize as well. So there are just so many things that have kind of transformed over this year and a lot of it's personal growth. A lot of it is personal desire out of what I want to see in my future, but a lot of it was also really really hard lessons that I also had to learn.

Raeanna Johnson: 25:15

Yeah, let's. Let's talk about, like, the business side of being a title holder and everything that you had to put into it so that you could get out everything that you did get out of it. What I mean, what was the business side like for you in Massachusetts? Every state is different. Every organization is a little bit different. What did that look like for you in particular?

Kiersten Khoury: 25:36

So, first and foremost, I'm very, very fortunate because our organization in Massachusetts does prioritize the fact that this is a job and you get paid for a job. So they are very, very good at doing their best to recognize the effort, the time, the energy, the travel that we put into our appearances and make sure that we're compensated in some way for that. So I am very grateful for that. It has given me the freedom to do a lot of things that I otherwise wouldn't have been able to do, and I do recognize that other states don't have that opportunity because they are so sorry my computer is freaking out, because they are maybe not in that same position, are maybe not in that same position. So we are very lucky here in Massachusetts that we do prioritize this like a job and we can use our free time to do this and be compensated for it. I know that's not the case for everybody else.

Kiersten Khoury: 26:31

We are also very, very fortunate to have sponsors and have people who support this organization, and it's been a personal mission of mine to continue to grow our sponsorship base because I found holes in what my year offered and what I felt like I could be offered, and so I did the work personally to say let me go out to these businesses that I already utilize and see if they'd be willing to help me out throughout this year. And they have, and a lot of them have signed on for next year, and so that's great and something that I think a lot of people underestimate. But with all of that, that takes work and there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes that people don't see. I can't tell you the amount of hours I spend emailing businesses, researching businesses, finding appearances for myself that are meaningful to me, communicating with different people and trying to get Miss Massachusetts in the room. There is a lot of that that goes on behind closed doors that we don't really publicize as title holders but is very, very real work.

Raeanna Johnson: 27:29

How much of that did you anticipate versus figure it out along the way?

Kiersten Khoury: 27:35

I didn't anticipate much of it, to be honest with you, I guess, being a title holder from prior years, I always looked at and it is. But I always looked at Miss America as the most prestigious organization in the world of pageants and it very much is. But that doesn't mean that you get driven around everywhere and that everybody does everything for you and somebody's putting your shoes on every day, like you are still doing all of the work that every other title holder is doing. And so, as I mentioned, I've had other titles and I did all that work when I was younger. My mom helped me do that work, but I assumed when you got to Miss America it's all done for you, and that's not true. This is a job. They call it a job for a reason. You very much earn your keep around here and so you have to put in the effort, you have to put in the time, you have to put in the work to get the year that you dream of having. It doesn't just happen for you.

Raeanna Johnson: 28:33

From where you sit now. How much pre-planning do you think someone could do to prepare for that type of work and the legwork that it takes to build your appearances, build support through sponsors and everything else that you need as resources for your year to be successful?

Kiersten Khoury: 28:53

So I actually felt that there was a lack of information given to me off the bat, and that's nobody's fault, it's just there's certain things that, after you do this for 100 years, people assume you know and you don't. Every organization is different. So I decided to make a binder which I will be giving to the next Miss Massachusetts, and it has a detailed, organized I'm a little type A, but organized to a T of all the information I felt I was missing when I was crowned that I want to then pass on to the next girl, and so I've broken it down into appearances, sponsorships, preparation for Miss America, what to expect at Miss America, what to do after Miss America, how do you want to leave your legacy as a title holder all the pieces that I wish I had a little bit of advice on. And I have to say I'm so grateful because the Massachusetts sisters are so good, Like I could text any single one of them and they answer any question I have. So I'm so, so grateful I had them.

Kiersten Khoury: 29:55

I've actually included advice from the formers as a page and I've reached back to, I think, Miss Massachusetts 1986 to see if they would give me advice, and they all have responded. So there is a page back there with all the advice from our formers on what you should expect out of your year. But my best advice, and the thing that kind of is the main overarching goal of this binder is your year is going to look different than everybody else's, so just know, walking into it, what your priorities are, what your bucket list is and what you're hoping. When you're sitting in this position a year from now, five weeks out from giving up your title, did you accomplish everything you wanted to do? Because if you have an idea of that from the get go, you can better structure your year for what you want to achieve.

Raeanna Johnson: 30:46

And, I think, from a realistic standpoint too. I think that is so very important to be realistic about the time constraints, your level of energy output that you can put out there, how much you need to balance prep for Miss America and doing the sponsored appearances, the things that are required of you as a state title holder, and then also wanting to do your CSI work and the other fun appearances that you want to do. When you're looking at planning out your year and dreaming of what your year looks like, having a realistic perspective is incredibly important because, having judged, you sit in that chair and you're reading through paperwork and you're talking to these women that have these big, grandiose plans. You're like that doesn't seem plausible.

Kiersten Khoury: 31:37

It's not going to happen and that's tough to come around to as well. You get one year and it sounds like a lot, but it's not a lot of time, especially when now these girls, their first two months, three months, will be spent wholly prepping for Miss America. There isn't going to be a whole lot of time for anything else. And then there are some women who keep their full-time career and don't go on hiatus, don't take a break, don't step down, don't go to part-time, whatever it is. They still have to manage that.

Kiersten Khoury: 32:10

And I think the biggest thing that people forget is that you're not just going to cut off your friends, your family, your significant other, your whatever it is, because you have this thing going on. You're still going to have to find time for the people in your life that matter, the things in your life that matter your mental health, and finding a little bit of time at the end of the day to de-stress. I mean, there is only so many hours in a day, there's only so much you can do, and so I agree with you. I had a bucket list of what I wanted to do as Miss Massachusetts and I can tell you that probably three of the 10 things on there won't happen, and it's sad. But I also have to keep in mind that, like I did so many things Number one, I never dreamed I would do and number two that were a huge blessing in the end that I maybe wouldn't have put on that list in the beginning, and so that's something like you have to keep in mind as well.

Raeanna Johnson: 33:05

Yeah, absolutely. How would you compare because you worked in the corporate world you said before becoming Miss Massachusetts Can do a comparing contrast for me of what it was like working that like 40 some hour week in a corporate position versus the job of Miss Massachusetts?

Kiersten Khoury: 33:32

They are a hundred percent different. I don't even know that. There's many correlations, to be honest with you, and something I say a lot is that this job is so hard because you never leave it. You are your job. You wear your job on your head and across your chest. You wear your job on your social media. You never leave it.

Kiersten Khoury: 33:59

It is a consistent year of your identity being tied to your profession, and that's not true of corporate America. You go in from eight to five or nine to six or whatever it is, and you work your 40, 45 hours a week and you go home and maybe you get asked at dinner how was work? But realistically, it is not your whole life and it is surely not your identity. And so I actually said at the Miss Massachusetts orientation this is the hardest job you'll ever have. And I said and some of you have very impressive careers but this is harder and it's because it is you. You are it.

Kiersten Khoury: 34:42

They are one in the same and that's a really hard thing for people to understand if they haven't done it Like. It's very unique and so, yeah, I don't know that I find a lot of similarities in them. These two careers have challenged me both, but in very different ways, and because of that I've grown as a person. As I mentioned, I found that I want other things out of my life that I wouldn't have necessarily known otherwise, and that's a beautiful gift that I've received so much opportunity to grow personally and to get a lot of clarification out of what I want, but it's one of those things that very few people will ever understand unless they've done it themselves.

Raeanna Johnson: 35:30

Yes, because words don't teach, experiences teach. My therapist and I have talked about this, this expectation that we have of women when they come into this role, about this, this expectation that we have of women when they come into this role, this public figure role, where all eyes are on you and your identity is is, is your job.

Kiersten Khoury: 35:48

Yeah.

Raeanna Johnson: 35:49

And you know we look at how celebrities handle that like people that have been in the spotlight either for just a very long time or really were born in that that kind of culture, and how different that is from women like us that have just been going to school like normal women or starting our careers like just everyday normal women. And then all of a sudden we are just catapulted into this public facing position with very little preparation and in many cases, like honest support for our mentality, our wellbeing and like how to navigate being in that public eye.

Kiersten Khoury: 36:31

Yeah, I think about it frequently. But realistically, the competitors, the title holders of Miss America, should probably have PR individuals, because I have always considered myself a pretty thoughtful individual. I try my best to think before I speak. I try my best to think about how others will interpret something. I try my best to put on the most authentic but still polished version of myself when I am out in the world. But it's hard to do that for 365 days consistently and never make a mistake. And I will be so honest that I have said things that I'm like I didn't mean it that way, I didn't intend for it to come across that way. That didn't sound the way it sounded in my head.

Kiersten Khoury: 37:26

And we don't have the media PR training that these celebrities have. We just don't. We are normal girls off the street and that is the beauty of Miss America, that anybody can do this job because we are everybody's girl. But what comes with that is that we are not trained in certain things, and one of those things is being in the public eye and being media trained and knowing what the perfect thing to say is all the time. We make mistakes. We are humans. We are not perfect and people unfortunately don't know that from looking at us. So there's very little grace that comes with that.

Raeanna Johnson: 38:09

Beautifully said. Yep, a hundred percent Cause, isn't it? I was learning or reading something a long time ago like bachelor and bachelorette for the longest time were like my guilty pleasure and like kind of graduated from that because I don't really love the way that the series had gone or the show had gone. But I heard somewhere that the Bachelor or the Bachelorette had like kind of some intensive training or some level of training in PR and in communication skills at that level, because they too are most likely normal people thrown into it and the and ABC and the producers need that star leading role to look good and sound good.

Kiersten Khoury: 38:56

So I actually just read Hannah Brown's book and I think it's called something like I'm a mess or something like that, hot mess, something like that. But I just read her book and she talks so much about that and I resonated to it more than I thought I would, because I've never been really on television, like I'm not some reality star. But I resonated to the fact that she was like, yeah, I said some things and I did some things and I had no idea they would be interpreted the way they were. But I I didn't mean it that way, I didn't realize. I now know that I shouldn't do this or say that or whatever, but I didn't know back then.

Kiersten Khoury: 39:39

And so it's so interesting even people who do get that training because they do, they go through, I believe, some sort of media training, so to speak still make mistakes. I say the wrong word. I can't think of the word I want to say. I say something that I think is funny that people take the wrong way. It happens, and it would be really sad. I think it's a culture too now, but like we cancel everything, and so I think that's another thing that we're always thinking about. It's like okay, well, how do I say this without offending a soul.

Raeanna Johnson: 40:25

That's hard. Yeah, it's really hard. Have you found that the non-pageant community versus the pageant community have differences in how critical they are of you as a title holder?

Kiersten Khoury: 40:41

the pageant community have differences in how critical they are of you as a title holder. No-transcript. I used to look up to women who were in my position more than I could ever put into words. I look at Miss America as a celebrity and that's the little baby pageant girl in me who's just obsessed with it and thinks it's the coolest thing in the entire world. And now that I have a personal relationship with a Miss America, I you know, I look at it differently. Now that I've had this job, I look at it differently. But I used to look up to them in such a light that I can't even put into words. And so now, being one of them, being in that position, doing that thing that I thought I would, you know, never get to do or just thought was the coolest thing in the entire world, I realized that people are really, really harsh on us and they don't necessarily always mean to be, but whether or not it's, you know, a judge or somebody on a Facebook page or somebody on a blog post, or people have some things to say.

Kiersten Khoury: 41:53

And the people in the pageant community, I believe, are more critical of appearance, of outerwear, of performance on stage. That's what they know, it's what they love and so they critique it. People outside of the pageant community, I think, don't understand what we do. They don't understand what goes into it, they don't understand how much practice and preparation it takes. And so you have one group of individuals who fully know how fabulous you are, but are still finding something to critique. And then you have a community of people who don't understand a thing about it, and so they're like oh, look at that beautiful girl. But I don't understand, why are people making such a big deal? And that is not to say that's the majority, but if we're talking about the two types of negatives, that seems to be the difference for me, and it's just interesting.

Raeanna Johnson: 42:49

Very interesting. Yeah, I have found that as well, that people within the pageant world that understand it, that have, like you said and I've done it too where we have kind of this image and this expectation and we've kind of epitomized what a woman would be or act like or sound like or look like in that role, and so then when there's any kind of like human error, we notice it.

Kiersten Khoury: 43:22

More than anybody else ever would.

Raeanna Johnson: 43:24

Yes, and I don't know. I think we got to check ourselves on that because then, when you've been in the position, you realize, like, how frequently we make mistakes.

Kiersten Khoury: 43:35

Yes, and both people are coming from a place of not understanding it, because I have never heard a young woman who has done this job in any state, in any capacity, critique another young woman the same way that others do who have never done this job. So both parties are coming from a place of not understanding different types of not understanding. But the individuals I felt who have given me the most grace and have given me the most support are the people who have actually done this themselves and know just how hard it is.

Raeanna Johnson: 44:13

I agree. And then, in the same breath, it's the people that have been in this position that, for whatever reason, have strong, harsh opinions that are the most painful opinions of yours. Yes, absolutely, yeah, yeah. All right, let's dive into some of the mindset stuff and the ups and downs of the year. As a title holder, what were some of the pressures that you felt throughout your year that you had to navigate?

Kiersten Khoury: 44:43

I think any young woman can understand that there is a pressure to look and feel your best always. That is heightened within this role. It's also heightened in the fact that people are constantly taking pictures and videos and you might catch yourself at not the prettiest angle and so you're like, oh wow, that's not great, and so that's definitely a pressure that I think I've always felt to some degree because, as I said, I've been in this role even as a dancer. You feel that pressure, so I've been in that kind of a position for so long that I've always been conscious of it. It was definitely heightened this year, and something I really really tried to remind myself of is that not everybody looks good from every angle, no matter how beautiful they are. Like you can catch the most beautiful woman on the planet Earth at a bad angle, in bad lighting. You can catch the most beautiful woman on the planet Earth at a bad angle in bad lighting. Sit in a certain way, look in a certain way. It does not take away from your beauty or what you really look like, you know. So I had to remind myself of that quite frequently this year. I would also say the pressure to always be on is there.

Kiersten Khoury: 45:56

I consider myself a very outgoing person. I am bubbly to the high heavens. I can talk to a brick wall for hours, but there were days I came home emotionally exhausted and I never thought I was capable of that. I honestly never understood that from others. You are on 24-7.

Kiersten Khoury: 46:17

And you are constantly thinking about what am I saying, what is the conversation? What is my point to get across? What do I want to make sure they know? What do I maybe not want to talk about? It's constant in any conversation you're having, and that is a lot of pressure to never make a mistake, which I promise you, I made plenty, but I was really trying not to. So that pressure to always be on is there. You just you never want to leave somebody with a bad impression of you, and so I was always working overtime to make sure that that didn't happen. And then I just think I put an internal pressure on myself to live up to the expectations of others, and so I definitely had this idea of what I thought Miss Massachusetts should be and what her year should look like, and so I put that internal pressure on myself of making sure I lived up to that. That might not have been fair to myself, but it was just I didn't want to let myself or others down.

Raeanna Johnson: 47:16

I guess it was just I didn't want to let myself or others down, I guess. Yeah, we see the external social media. We see women at appearances out in the community. We, you know, hear their speeches, see the pictures. We can see the physical energy and output that can be exhausting, of late nights, long appearances, traveling the state you know doing doing the work to prepare for the next level of competition. What we underestimate because we don't see is the mental load, the mental work, which is exactly what I heard you talking about, of like having to think about all the things at all times while also being present and open and real. And you know that this like energy that that we have to bring to every appearance, because it's not about us, it's about the people that we're interacting with, and that is exhausting and it is one of those unspoken, you know, characteristics and and uh struggles within being a title holder.

Kiersten Khoury: 48:28

And it's again. These things are so unique because they're very unique experiences. There were very few careers or people who would even understand it and so because of that it's so hard to make a relatable. You know, everybody complains about their job, or everybody has bad days at work, or everybody has somebody that they have to work with that they don't love. But it's heightened and it's publicized in what we do and because, again, that job is part of our identity for that year it becomes more personal than anything at work ever could. And so that's what makes it so hard, I think, is that you come home from a really long day and there were so many incredible parts of it, so many wonderful memories, beautiful photos. You know you got all that. But then you come home from the end of the day and you're exhausted and it's really hard to talk to anybody about it because they don't really get it.

Raeanna Johnson: 49:25

They don't get it. I remember that, coming back from Miss America too, of kind of feeling this guilt of like the letdown and some of the regrets and as I was like processing it and then not really being able to talk to anybody about it because it was a whole lot of. But you went to Miss America and how exciting, and then you'd go to appearances and oh, how'd you do? And it's just like it was a lot to navigate internally.

Kiersten Khoury: 49:52

It it is and it's you don't and this is my biggest thing is I never want to come off ungrateful or not appreciative, because I know there are women who never had the opportunity that I have and I'm doing this for them as well, and so that's a really, really hard. That might be the hardest internal struggle is how do I remain grateful for this opportunity and present and appreciative while still allowing myself to realize that this is a really hard job and this takes a toll and I have to mentally recuperate to go through the next day.

Raeanna Johnson: 50:32

And not judge yourself for having bad days and having moments where you're like man. I wish I didn't have to go to this appearance because I'm just tired and I want to veg and binge, watch something on Netflix or whatever. Like, just have a normal day as a normal human and there's there is a lot of guilt that comes with that, I remember.

Kiersten Khoury: 50:51

Much guilt.

Raeanna Johnson: 50:52

Yeah, so you mentioned some mistakes that you've made. Would you mind sharing, like some of those moments that you were like, oh my gosh, that's not what I meant to do, or whatever. Like I have a whole laundry list, too, like things that I'm like, oh my gosh, like rolling my eyes, um, about my choices. Uh, would you mind sharing some of those, just so we can like really see like we're human?

Kiersten Khoury: 51:16

So one of the first appearances that I had in, one of the first mistakes I made was I I didn't understand the commotion that came with being Miss Massachusetts in Massachusetts. And so you know, as a normal little girl when I was a title holder, okay, a few people cared and took a picture, but it wasn't anything crazy. As a normal little girl when I was a title holder, okay, a few people cared and took a picture, but it wasn't anything crazy. One of the first appearances I went to was on the beach in part of Massachusetts and it was this international sand sculpting competition that I guess they hold in Revere Beach, the first public beach in the United States. Well, I didn't realize the crowd that came with that. I was mobbed, like utterly mobbed, and we always have a chaperone, but it was my mom. I needed like a six foot three security guard. I didn't know. I just I had never thought about personal safety in this kind of a thing ever, about personal safety in this kind of a thing ever. And after that experience, anytime, I knew I was going to be in a public, very, very public, without any sort of privacy or security. I had my dad come to those appearances with me Because, truth be told, it was so overwhelming but it was also a little scary. You know, I was walking through the crowds of people trying to get to the podium where I had to speak and it was just crazy. So that was like something I had never thought of before and I was like, okay, mental note, you need to be concerned about your personal safety. That needs to become a priority for you throughout this year and it was a good learning lesson and it definitely did, but not something I would have thought of.

Kiersten Khoury: 52:59

Another, you know, thing that I think about a lot is the opportunities that we get we like to not say no to, but a lot of times it may not be the best suited thing for you and maybe it's okay to say no to something. There are certainly some things that I have done this year because I wanted to please everybody and make sure that I gave everybody an opportunity to utilize me as the title, as a promotion, as whatever, and I probably shouldn't have. There are definitely some things that I look back on and say maybe that wasn't the best for my brand or for me or for the organization, and it was just me wanting to please everyone and make sure everybody got access to me, that I probably could have protected my own piece a little bit in that and made another decision.

Kiersten Khoury: 53:52

Something really important for me specifically is that I very un-pageant-y of me. I swear, I'm from Massachusetts, we swear. I don't even catch myself doing it sometimes and I thought, because you know, when I'm on stage or in an interview for a pageant, of course I'm not swearing, but sometimes it slips and it's culture here, like, like I can't explain it to anybody in North Carolina, they don't believe me, but like it's culture here. We use it as seasoning on our sentences, like we just do it. There have been a few times this year that I have let it slip and every once in a while it's on video and I'm like, oh my goodness, kirsten, get it together. So yeah, that's probably one of the biggest things that I have to remind myself of daily, hourly, by the minute.

Raeanna Johnson: 54:46

Yeah, that's. Yeah, I get that, though. Um, fortunately for me, you know, when I'm podcasting, I can edit that.

Kiersten Khoury: 54:55

Exactly, and that's the thing is like if you can edit it, great, if you can't, whoops. I said it, um, yeah, and, and everybody here does it. I mean, sometimes the person talking to me is swearing, so then I like forget because it's just, it's, it's culture here and I know it's so inappropriate and offensive to others. We don't view it like that here, like I can't explain it in any other way. But as Miss Massachusetts, I need to refrain from it and I do my best.

Raeanna Johnson: 55:29

So was the concern more about it being on video and other people outside of your communities would see it and get an impression of Miss Massachusetts or MAO.

Kiersten Khoury: 55:39

Exactly. It's so much you know here. We don't. It doesn't even register at all. People swear in front of their children, People swear in public, people swear on Instagram posts. It's not like a thing. However, I am speaking on a larger platform to a larger audience that are not all living inside of Boston, massachusetts, and so that was always the thing is like. I never want anybody to be offended by a word choice I made that I am using for emphasis, but is going to come across a different way.

Raeanna Johnson: 56:14

And therein lies again, the need for a PR manager.

Kiersten Khoury: 56:18

Exactly.

Raeanna Johnson: 56:21

I see it, I get it. Has your definition of success changed for you since earning this title last year?

Kiersten Khoury: 56:36

I think so. I obviously found in my eyes that being at Miss America was a success for me, and it was. It was a huge accomplishment, it was a huge goal and I achieved that and I allow myself to feel successful for that. However, with all the personal growth and learning that I've done this year, I also realized that success is not always a tangible thing. It's not always a check on the you know goal list. Sometimes it's just being happy and being content and feeling confident in what you've done thus far and sitting in that a little bit.

Kiersten Khoury: 57:19

Us pageant girls and a lot of people have a tendency to always be achieving, always looking at the next goal, always pushing for the next thing. Sometimes the day after we achieve the thing we've been working years for. So you know, I won Miss Massachusetts and the next day all I can think about is how am I going to win Miss America? That's crazy. It's just something we are innate to do and I wish it wasn't the case. I wish it wasn't the culture, because there is so much success in what we achieve, in the friendships we make, in the relationships that we have, in the personal growth that we do, in the confidence that we build that we need to sit and recognize that a little bit more than looking for the next notch on our belt.

Raeanna Johnson: 58:07

How do we measure that level of success then?

Kiersten Khoury: 58:12

It's going to look different for everybody. For me, being content with where I'm at at the moment is a huge success, because I have always been the person looking for the next best thing. I always wanted to have an accomplishment or an accolade, and it's not necessary. It doesn't bring you peace, it doesn't make people like you more, it's not as important as it seems to us, especially when we're younger, and so finding a piece in my physical and mental health, finding a piece in what I have accomplished and where I want to go without needing a trophy to do so, those are all things I view as successful. However, that's really hard to explain to somebody else and they might not view it that way, and that's okay, but I do encourage everybody to find their definition of success and maybe try and not make it a physical award or accolade, because it's not always what brings you the most success out of being in this powerful experience.

Raeanna Johnson: 59:24

That's something that I had to learn in the decade after giving up my title. But that really weird shift from I'm working towards something whether that was my college degree or becoming Miss Wisconsin or going after my dream of becoming Miss America and then all of that's done and then it's like who am I? What am I if I'm not going for something huge?

Kiersten Khoury: 1:00:08

Correct. That's so hard for us it's again, that's kind of a unique problem, but you know, if you were trying for the Olympics it'd be the same thing. You know you do it, you got the gold, you went. You can say you achieved. What do you do now? Like it is that huge shift and it's hard, and there have definitely been moments that have felt scary for me of like, well, what do I do next? I've been talking about achieving this my whole life. I have always found any award and project I could put myself into so that I could achieve this. Now I've done that. What? What do I do? And that that is tough. But yeah, I guess my best advice and what I've tried to really hone in on this year is appreciate all that you've done. Allow yourself to be proud and revel in the accomplishments that you've had thus far and take time for yourself to really really think about what's next and what you want out of the next five and 10 years for yourself. And it again doesn't have to be an accolade, that's okay.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:01:27

Speaking of next. What is next for you?

Kiersten Khoury: 1:01:31

So one thing I am just so excited about is being able to continue my advocacy work. I have found such a passion and a drive for speaking to dyslexic students, speaking about dyslexia to others, and so I decided to reach out to the International Dyslexia Association and partner with them throughout the year, and that has now turned into it becoming a board member on their board of directors. So that is something I'm really excited about. It is a um nonprofit organization. It is a you know organization I'll be able to donate my time and energy to, and that is just something I'm really excited to be a part of. And that is just something I'm really excited to be a part of. That, I think, will bring a lot of joy to myself.

Kiersten Khoury: 1:02:21

Another thing that I'm just really excited about is finding a way to succeed in my career, in a new career that I never thought would become my focal point, but, you know, be able to invest energy and time into that, because I do think now I have a better idea of what I want and what direction I want my career to go in, and so I'm excited to find how to make that happen. And I'm also really, really excited to have a Saturday free and spend time with my friends and go to the beach and see my family and not feel like I'm missing out on so much because I'm doing all these other incredible things. You know, that is one thing that we don't talk about a lot, but we make sacrifices every single day for this job.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:03:19

And I'm really excited to be able to put the people in my life that are important at the forefront again. I think be prepared, if that crown and sash is placed on you listeners out there, that it is 365 days of having to make really tough decisions and sacrifices and find balance as best as you possibly can to maintain your grounded sense of self.

Kiersten Khoury: 1:03:33

Yeah, it's so true sense of self.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:03:36

Yeah, it's so true. Right, as we wrap up, what else is on your heart today?

Kiersten Khoury: 1:03:48

Can I give you the last word? I think we've talked about a lot of things that are not typically talked about, and I love what you're doing because it does give the inside look into what the life of a title holder is, and these things are not glamorous, but they are important, they're impactful, they give you the truth, and so many young women idolize this position and you should. It is incredible. We are so very fortunate for what we've been able to do, the lives we've been able to touch, the impact we've been able to make.

Kiersten Khoury: 1:04:17

But I do think it's really, really important to note that this job is not for everybody. That's okay, and for those who do have it, please be prepared to make a really, really big commitment and a lot of sacrifice to be able to do this job to the fullest. So I love that we were able to talk about that today. I love that we're always highlighting the positives and all the wonderful things we do, but it is really really important to talk about some of the things that go on behind closed doors. So I appreciate you giving me the space to do that today.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:04:51

Oh, thank you. Thank you for being open and honest and well candid very candid. It was good and, like I, every single conversation I've had so far with the Miss America class of 2024, 2025,. You're the class of 2025. We're all 2025.

Kiersten Khoury: 1:05:14

We're all 2024.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:05:16

So confusing. I was Miss America class of 2015, but I was a 2014 title holder. It's confusing, anyway, but every single conversation that I've had with this class, like none of it has been about the tea we don't care. Like, don't bring me the drama. Like none of that is what this is about. It's all about giving a realistic job. Preview.

Kiersten Khoury: 1:05:36

And, truth be told, one thing we didn't touch on but is very important to me is that we are a very close class. I am actually leaving tomorrow to go on a Miss America spring break trip with a bunch of my girls, and 30 of us attended Abby's homecoming in Alabama. We are a very close-knit class and there isn't a whole lot of tea because we really get along very, very well and I'm very, very fortunate to say that is one of the greatest gifts I came out of this year with.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:06:06

Amazing. I can relate to that. We had our 10-year anniversary trip in Colorado in September, so yeah so cool, amazing. Well, I'm really excited to follow your journey, as to what comes next for you, and thank you so much for your time today and for sharing your heart, and every single conversation has been valuable, and yours is absolutely no different, so thank you so much for being here and best of luck to you.

Raeanna Johnson: 1:06:32

Thank you so much, absolutely. As for the rest of you, sash and Soul community, we'll be back again next week with more for you to dive into and to learn from this amazing class of representatives in the Miss America 2025 class. We'll see you then. Bye.